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At the right time of day, the Exploratorium on San Francisco’s Embarcadero is covered in rainbows. Visitors lift soap bubbles over their heads, drop ball bearings through hoops, and spin a disc of sand that seems to fall forever. For almost 60 years, this hands-on museum has invited people to poke at the world and see what happens.
“We’re giving you the real thing. We are not giving you a simulation of something that happens,” says Dr. Anne Richardson, the Exploratorium’s chief experience officer.
When Anne first walked in, she thought, “Oh wow, this is my place.” Twenty-three years later, she’s still there. Her work now runs from After Dark, a weekly adults-only night, to exhibitions such as “Adventures in AI,” in which visitors decided whether to trust a little robotic arm that looks like a cat paw.
Today, on the season finale of Call ’Em Like Museum, Anne explains how a visitor’s flip-flop changed a classic exhibit; what adults get out of After Dark, where you can sip a cocktail while watching a rat being skinned; the Exploratorium’s work with new science centers in Brazil, Korea, and Kenya; and why “wicked problem skills” matter for big challenges like climate change. Plus: Why her all-time favorite exhibit is one she broke... permanently.
This episode was hosted, produced, and edited by Eric Johnson from LightningPod
Images:
University of Michigan mastodons
Art Institute of Chicago
Ann Arbor Hands-On Museum
SESI Lab
Hyundai Partnership
Nemayiana
Art Institute of Chicago
Ann Arbor Hands-On Museum
SESI Lab
Hyundai Partnership
Nemayiana
Videos:
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Creators and Guests
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What is Call 'Em Like Museum with Eric Johnson?
Call 'Em Like Museum is a weekly podcast exploring how museums really work, and why we love them. Host Eric Johnson talks with museum directors, curators, experts, and passionate fans about what drives them, from homegrown passion projects to world-famous institutions. Each episode digs into museum curation, exhibit design, and the visitor experience — plus the essential question: What's actually worth buying in the gift shop? Season One spotlights museums in the San Francisco Bay Area, including the Walt Disney Family Museum, the de Young Museum, and the Winchester Mystery House.
It's magical.
You feel a bit transported when
you enter the Exploratorium.
The right times of day, there are
rainbows all over the floors and walls.
For almost 60 years, the
Exploratorium has been an iconic
part of the Bay Area museum scene.
It's the first museum in San
Francisco that I ever went to,
when I visited as a kid, and it's
taught generations of children
about science, technology, and art.
We're giving you the real thing.
We are not giving you a simulation
of something that happens.
We're really trying to invite you into
interacting with the phenomenon itself.
That's Dr. Anne Richardson, the chief
experience officer of the Exploratorium.
One of her many jobs has been
applying its values of hands-on
learning to new technologies.
We're not there to take a stance on
is AI a good thing or a bad thing.
If there's something happening in society,
let's help you learn about it and be
curious and understand it for yourself.
And her team has taken what used
to be a monthly night at the museum
and expanded it into a weekly
themed event called After Dark.
It creates a social environment.
It's a great experience, and you get to be
a learner and people are hungry for that.
This is Call ‘Em Like Museum,
a podcast about how museums
work and why we love them.
I'm Eric Johnson.
Today on our season finale, how
can museums encourage people
of all ages to be more curious?
Why is the Exploratorium
staff also helping museums
in Brazil, Korea, and Kenya?
And can hands-on learning really
help us solve big problems
like the climate crisis?
Dr. Anne Richardson from the
Exploratorium will talk about all
of that and more right after this.
This episode is sponsored
by Transistor.fm.
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On this podcast, we believe that
everyone's experience with museums
is deeply personal, and that's why
we want to hear your museum stories.
If you've got one, and I bet
you do, please submit it at
our website, likemuseum.com.
Just go to the website, likemuseum.com,
and click "submit a museum
story" at the top of the page.
It might just make it
into a future episode.
Thanks.
What does the word "museum" mean to you?
For me, personally, museums have
been a place of inspiration.
In my first memories of museums, I
went to the University of Michigan
Natural History Museum in Ann Arbor.
I remember being a kid and seeing
this giant mastodon skeleton when
you walk in the entry and just what
a thrilling feeling that was to see
something so special and so unusual.
And then I remember when I moved
to San Francisco, Cal Academy was
under construction at the time
and they had a temporary location.
So they had temporarily put in
aquariums and tanks with all these
just incredible species of organisms
and these seahorses that camouflage
with the surrounding environment.
And you think about just the incredible
diversity of life and all of the
things that living things do to
make life work on our planet and how
just mind-blowing and inspiring that
is and how sad and devastating it
would be for museums to disappear.
Yes.
Because these are places that we
go to ignite our sense of wonder,
to be exposed to things you might
not see or notice every day.
So it's a bit of an awakening
every time you go to a museum.
Or even when you go to an art museum and
you can see the way an artist is exploring
the world and the provocations that
they put in front of you, [it] makes you
stop and think a little bit differently
than you might have the day before.
So that's what they've
meant to me growing up.
Now I see museums as this essential
learning infrastructure to support across
our lifespan in addition to schools.
We need other ways and other
kinds of places of learning, and
museums are essential for that.
Could you talk about your
path to the Exploratorium?
How did you wind up working here?
[laugh] It was a winding path.
My career counselor in college told me,
"It's going to be a winding path for
you." And she was not wrong about that.
I studied art history for my undergrad
and I did my internship during college
at the Art Institute of Chicago.
Oh wow.
And that was a really fantastic place to
get to work and be exposed to museums.
I worked in museum education,
and so I credit the HR person
who interviewed me that day with
placing me in museum education based
on my background and interests.
It was just wild to get to be behind the
scenes at the Art Institute of Chicago.
That was a really, really
fantastic experience.
But at the same time, I was very involved
in the outdoor club at Northwestern.
I was the president of the outing club
and I used to take people out backpacking
in the wilderness and rock climbing
and exploring the natural environment.
So I actually really
wanted to be a naturalist.
And so I got a job at the Chicago
Department of Environment working for
a nature center, which was also just
a fabulous life experience to have,
and discovered that there's a whole
world of environmental education.
And so I went into
environmental education.
That was what my master's degree was in.
I did environmental
education for several years.
I worked in nature centers,
I wrote curriculum.
So I had this kind of both art
and science, a little bit of
museums and education, background.
And I moved to San Francisco and
I discovered the Exploratorium.
And I walked in and I thought, "Oh
wow, this is my place." [laugh]
Wait, why did you have that reaction?
What was it about this
that changed your mind?
It all came together at
the Exploratorium for me.
In Ann Arbor where I grew up, there's
the Ann Arbor Hands-On Museum,
which it turns out was started
by the University of Michigan in
collaboration with the Exploratorium.
So it was very familiar to me when
I walked into the Exploratorium,
I recognized the exhibits that I
had been exploring as a kid that
totally inspired me in my early days.
I could see right away the way
that art and science and nature
all come together in this place.
And I was frankly really inspired
by the approach to teaching and
learning there, the idea that
learning is really in your hands.
You get to have a real experience with
actual phenomena in the world, ask your
own questions, and try the things that
make sense to you to try to see what
happens, and make meaning out of that
and have conversations with people.
It's not a place where anyone is telling
you what you need to learn and understand.
You discover that for yourself.
So there's a really strong sense
of agency that comes with that
that I think is really important.
So that to me felt like this is the
place I want to be and where I want
to push myself to learn and grow.
And I feel really fortunate that
there was a good fit at that time.
And it's been 23 years
and it's still there.
Wow.
So when you first came, the
Exploratorium was in its original
location at the Palace of Fine Arts.
These days you're at Pier
15 on the Embarcadero here.
And I was wondering if you could
talk about what you see, what you
hear when you enter the space.
What does it feel like to
enter the Exploratorium?
It's magical.
First, I think you feel a bit transported
when you enter the Exploratorium.
The right times of day, there are
rainbows all over the floors and walls.
There are people lifting bubbles
over their heads to try to put
your head inside of a bubble.
There's a lot of activity.
There are things that are moving and
spinning that you can stop and interact
with and actually change yourself.
So you see a disc that's spinning full of
sand that's falling forever as you spin
it around and you see people dropping
ball bearings to bounce through hoops.
You see fans of air blowing little
inflatable balls you can move around.
There's all this activity happening.
That's what it feels
like when you walk in.
The world's full of phenomena, all
kinds of interesting, amazing things
that are happening, and what we do is
isolate and frame those things for you.
So you can say, okay, I just want to
look at how light travels in a line
and I can move that with a mirror or
a prism and I can see what happens, or
I just want to look at a cloud, maybe
that's moving because there's air being
pushed past it and what happens when
that air is moving past that cloud.
How does air move?
So we frame those things for you and you
get to take a nice close look at them and
then wonder, well, what if I blow on this?
Does that change things?
Or what if I move this a little bit?
And so you get to have your
own experience as you choose.
And at the same time, there's
a lot happening around you.
It's a pretty stimulating place to be.
Yeah.
My friend Cate recently visited San
Francisco with her daughter and they went
to the Exploratorium, of course they did.
And afterwards I saw them for dinner,
and her daughter was so excited.
She was like, "We played a
game called Sip or Squirt!"
[laugh]
Do you want to explain Sip or Squirt?
Sure.
That's the classic prisoner's dilemma.
In social science, how do you frame up
phenomena for people that are about people
so you can really think and reflect about
how you interact with others in society.
In this one, we set it up as two
drinking fountains that are facing
each other, and you have a choice
of whether you're going to have your
partner take a sip of water or if
they're going to be squirted instead.
And if you both choose to sip, then
you both get water, but if one of
you chooses to squirt, then the other
person gets squirted with water.
Does that sound right?
I can't remember exactly, but the
idea is you have to really think
about what it means for you to win
as an individual or to win together.
And also it's fun.
Do I know the person on the other
side of this drinking fountain?
Are they going to choose
to give me a sip of water?
Are they going to squirt me with it?
And Cate's daughter of course was
very happy because her mom got
squirted in the face with water.
That's what made it fun for her.
Yeah, exactly.
And you learn something about your family.
And so we have exhibits that are about
cooperation and collaboration, exhibits
about emotion, which I personally
love and think is really important.
We have exhibits about identity.
One of my favorites is one where people
write about themselves, like people
think and they say what people tend to
think about them, but really, and then
they say something about themselves and
there's a photograph of that person.
And you're invited to do the same thing,
to really think about how do other
people perceive my identity in the world,
but really how do I perceive myself?
And what does that mean also about
the way I perceive other people?
And might there be something
more going on with other people
than I immediately perceive?
Slowing down to think that
way is incredibly important
in a high-functioning society.
When your team is building new
experiences, new exhibits for the
museum, I believe since the very
beginning, there's been a workshop
that's been exposed for everyone to see.
Is that right?
Yes.
There's still a workshop there.
It's the heart of the museum.
We intentionally exposed it.
There's no glass between you
and the workshop and the tools.
We wanted people to see that what we're
doing there, it's not a black box.
The ideas for the exhibits
come from Exploratorium staff
who are noticers in the world.
They're discovering these phenomena
and then they try out some ideas.
So we start out with a proof of
concept and try it, just frame the
phenomenon, and we try it out with
each other until we get it to a place
where we feel like, okay, we can put a
prototype out onto the museum floor in
that gallery right outside the shop.
So that whole workshop area spills into
the gallery, and those are prototypes
that we are watching to see what
happens when people interact with them.
And then they get pulled back into
the workshop and changed right
there on site and then put back.
And we have an evaluation department
that looks at them with us to help us
really understand, is this working?
How are people using this?
What are they taking away from it?
And sometimes visitors teach us things
that aren't maybe necessarily what
we had planned for at the beginning.
What matters is really what's actually
happening, not some idea that we have
about something we want to teach you.
It's really about inviting you to
notice something in the world that
we also thought was interesting.
Do you remember an example of that?
A time when a visitor taught you
something unexpected based on a prototype?
The one that's sort of this classic
story that we tell is from before
my time, the Pipes of Pan exhibit.
It's glass tubes of different lengths
and when you put your ear up to them,
you hear … Basically they're filtering
out different frequencies of sound that
are just ambient in the environment and
you can hear that sound through the tube.
And one day a visitor took off their
flip-flop and hit the ends of the
tubes and they make the sound, and we
thought, oh, that was a great idea.
So now there's a rubber flap that's
attached to the exhibit so you can
bonk the ends of the tubes also.
And so the developer didn't
think that was their plan, but
that's what we decided to do.
More recently, we have one
that's a spinning blackboard.
It's a table of sand, it's a wheel that
spins and you can put your finger in it,
make designs in the sand as it moves.
What happens if I'm standing here
and I'm making my design and you're
standing next to me, you might be
erasing the pattern that I make as
you make yours at the same time.
And so we saw this happening and
decided let's make three wheels so
that I can see what you're doing and
you can have your space and I can have
my space and we can still interact
with each other, but you're not going
to erase the work that I'm doing.
I still get to have control over my space.
So we're always learning from people.
We watch them.
Creativity doesn't need to
be a competition, basically.
You don't want to teach
the wrong lesson there.
Well, it's just like everyone
wanted to do it at the same time.
So you never get a chance to see your
pattern go all the way around the
wheel if there were other people there.
And so you want to get a chance for that.
And so instead of making rules,
we just changed the setup.
We wanted also [to] set things
up so that people can intuitively
behave the way that they think that
they should and not have to check
and see if they're doing it right.
It's not about that.
Of course you're doing it right.
This is what you think you should do.
So we need to design around that.
What is the fail
condition for a prototype?
What does it look like when
an exhibit doesn't work, and
then what happens after that?
Let's say a phenomenon just isn't
easily replicable over and over
again, or it's too fragile and so
it has to constantly have a person
there to reset it or tweak things.
That's too fragile for an
environment like ours, it has
to be able to stand on its own.
Or it's just not that interesting.
Maybe the way in which people are
interacting with it, the change that
they can affect, is too small to really
be perceived — again, without someone
standing there helping you notice it.
So those ones don't make sense.
It has to be a worthwhile experience.
It has to be able to hold its own.
Ideally our exhibits — not always,
but most of the time — we're
giving you the real thing.
We are not giving you a simulation
of something that happens.
This is the actual thing.
Our living systems gallery is really
interesting because we give you
interactions with real living organisms,
and that's really important to us.
And of course we can support
with video that we've taken in
our lab or things like that.
We do sometimes introduce models.
Models are a really important
part of learning about science.
We're really trying to invite you into
interacting with the phenomenon itself.
If we instead are starting with
"there's a really cool thing I want
you to know," it's probably not
going to result in a great exhibit.
The more promising start is
"there's a cool experience to have"
or "there's a cool feeling that
you could generate with this."
Like "there's something I noticed."
I noticed that when ice forms,
it's really cool to look at.
I want to show this to you.
Or I noticed that a soap film has
colors that move, I'll show that to you
rather than I need you to understand the
structure of a soap film and I'm going
to create a model to show that to you.
That's a different way in, and our
way in is to invite you to experience
something that we've noticed.
Because then that encourages a
curiosity about the world that
extends far beyond the exhibit.
Then you're encouraging the visitors
to start noticing things like
that in their own life with the
soap or whatever else they see.
Exactly.
That's so cool.
Yeah.
One thing I was really surprised by
when I last visited was that — I'm not
sure if this is a permanent exhibit
or if it's a prototype — but you
have an AI exhibit now where people
are drawing pictures and then AI is
using the digital to generate a larger
picture in a song, something like that?
Yeah, Sketch to Song.
Can you talk about the decision to have
AI represented in the Exploratorium?
What's the behind-the-scenes story there?
Sure.
That was our summer exhibition the
year before last, Adventures in AI.
It takes us a couple of years to
develop a temporary exhibition.
So that means back in 2023, we
were starting to think about the
summer of 2025 and what we would do.
And in that moment in time,
AI was becoming important.
And so we asked ourselves, can
we, should we develop a temporary
exhibition that's about AI?
And if so, what are we going to do?
Turned out to be really
important work for us.
And so that show primarily is about
building AI literacy, which has become an
important thrust in our work right now.
Our AI initiative has two big components.
One is AI literacy and the other is
embedding AI as a tool for learning.
And those are two important pieces
of work that need to happen.
I think it's become even clearer
now that AI literacy is critical for
society, and so we have an important
role to play there, and that AI can and
will be used as a tool for learning.
It's important for us to participate in
thinking about and experimenting with
what that can look like in a way that
centers humans as learners and that
still preserves the learner's agency and
self-efficacy for learning science rather
than taking it over and doing it for them.
So we're really involved in that.
We have a lot of work in that area.
The Adventures in AI show was our first
push into AI literacy and created for
us a collection of experiences that now
we can build on [in] our research and
take a deeper look at how that's going.
It was a bold decision for us to decide
to do that show in the first place.
The team needed to spend time learning
about AI themselves and be learners
and feel what that felt like to try
to learn about it and to ask ourselves
what's really important for people
to be able to know and understand.
What are the phenomena that we're
exploring and what will be lasting?
Because this is technology
that's changing really quickly.
Actually, a lot of them don't have
screens and a lot of them don't
have AI baked into them because the
questions that they're asking don't
necessarily require that, especially
when we're asking you to consider your
own relationship with the technology.
So my very favorite one is a game that
you play with a little robotic arm that
comes out of a trap door to push a button.
And the game is somebody needs to push
the button before the light turns on.
And is it going to be you or the robot?
And do you trust the
robot to do it or not?
And it kind of looks like a
little cat paw, which may be
part of why I like it so much.
It's a sort of cute little robotic
arm that comes out and it kind of
surprises you when it comes out
of its little door and presses
the button and then it goes away.
And so then it tells you at the end how
many times did you trust the robot and
would you consider, when you rely on
technology, when you trust it and when
you don't, when you feel like you need
to step in, in this case to win the game.
And so those kinds of things
doesn't necessarily require AI
to be a part of the exhibit.
It's about you thinking about when
do I trust AI to do something?
When do I feel like I need to take over?
And there's no right answer to that
question, but it's important to ask.
How do you conceive of AI as a person,
as an agent in this world, right?
Do you think of it as a player in
this game or is it just a machine
that happens to be very advanced?
I think there's lots of really
interesting questions raised there.
Was that show, Adventures in AI,
was that very controversial among
the staff at the Exploratorium
and the members of the museum?
That's a great question.
A little bit.
Among staff in the beginning, certainly
it sparked a lot of discussion, but
generally speaking at the Exploratorium,
we're not there to take a stance on
is AI a good thing or a bad thing.
If there's something happening in society,
let's help you learn about it and be
curious and understand it for yourself.
If there's something new and
important that is very much a part
of our lives, then it's our job to
be there to help you learn about it.
That's not controversial.
Right.
You don't want the museum
to feel stuck in the past.
You don't want it to feel like
it's not evolving with the times.
So that's why it's so good that you
have this workshop, you're constantly
trying out new ideas and seeing what
works, seeing what gets at the curious
reaction that you're looking for.
Yeah, it's a mix, right?
I think curiosity is evergreen.
It's never going away.
The exhibits that were developed back
in the '70s are still there and just
as important now as they were before.
And there are new phenomena to explore.
And as we look to the future,
complexity is becoming important.
There's a new area of skills
called wicked problem skills that
we think are really important.
Wicked problem skills?
Yeah.
So a wicked problem is
something that is very complex.
It requires many perspectives to
understand that maybe it doesn't
have one clear right answer.
Climate change is the
classic wicked problem.
And you could say that the proliferation
of AI is a wicked problem as well.
We need new skills to be able
to engage with those problems.
The classic inquiry skills that we've
always worked on at the Exploratorium
are still really important.
So the skills of noticing, asking
questions, making observations,
testing your ideas, those are
all still foundational and we
still do all of those things.
And the exhibits we've chosen are
really selected because they support
those skills more than they support,
necessarily, content-learning outcomes.
So now we need to expand our repertoire
to include these wicked problem skills
as well, which are things like being
able to grapple with complexity,
uncertainty, change over time, multiple
perspectives, things like that.
So now we're venturing into what
experiences support those kinds of skill
building so that in the future world that
we're all shaping together, we're better
equipped to show up and participate.
Hey, if you're enjoying the episode,
then make sure to follow the podcast
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Thank you so much.
Do you have a museum story?
Maybe there was a time you got
lost, a time that you were moved
to tears, or a time you saw
something that blew your mind.
No matter what your story
is, I want to hear it.
Head to likemuseum.com and click
"submit a museum story." It
might end up on a future episode.
That's likemuseum.com and
click "submit a museum story."
I was there last week visiting the
Exploratorium with your colleague,
Sam Sharkland, and it was for your
weekly After Dark event, which is
an 18-plus event on Thursday nights.
When I was there last week, the
theme was Day of the Dead/Dia
de Los Muertos/Halloween.
It was life and death.
And I got to say, I don't think there's
anywhere else in San Francisco where I
could see people standing around sipping
cocktails while watching a rat be skinned.
That was — [laugh]
Yeah, only at the Exploratorium.
[laugh]
Can you talk, though, about why
have the evening programming?
Why do it this way where
it's a weekly themed event?
So the Exploratorium is
important for your entire life.
It's not just for children to do learning.
Adults also are learners and should be
learners in the world, and a full half
of our audience is adults who come to
the Exploratorium without children.
Really?
Yes.
So adults are interested too.
It turns out, though, during the
daytime, adults will tend to hang back
a little bit and give space to kids
to really own the exhibit experience.
And so you're not going to elbow a
child out of your way because you're
really curious about something.
You don't know me that well.
I mean … [laugh]
[laugh] And so we experimented with [it]
a little bit and found that it really
helps actually to have an adult-only time.
People come to the Exploratorium
across any age group for three reasons.
They're coming to have
an enjoyable experience.
They're coming to learn something.
And they're coming for a social
experience either with people
they came with or with others.
The After Dark does all of those things.
It creates a social environment — and
it's really popular for that reason, it's
a great experience — and you get to be a
learner, and people are hungry for that.
The reason that we do the themed events
is that it gives some energy behind
the programs that we do, the partners
that we bring in, and it allows us
to do what we do really well, which
is to take a thematic topic and look
at it from many different angles.
It's not all one thing.
It's sort of a kaleidoscopic experience
to come into the Exploratorium and you're
exploring something from many different
angles and you have lots of ways in.
There might be things that work
better for you than others, but
there's probably some way in that's
surprising and interesting to you.
In this darkened space, we are repurposing
a room with an old artist-in-residence
piece called Recollections.
We're in this darkened kind
of shed and in front of us
appears a coffin-shaped mirror.
As we approach it, I see an array of
glowing LEDs that recede infinitely into
the background, and standing center, I
find myself in the middle of this coffin.
So, clearly another meditation on what it
might mean to imagine our own mortality,
but this time through an artist's lens
and the choices that this artist made
for this work, and again, something
that our program developer found and
decided would be a fit for the night.
It’s always funny when museums do
an after-dark event like this one:
Come hang out with friends, have a
drink, contemplate your mortality.
Yeah, just the everyday stuff.
Are you involved with the team that is
figuring out the themes, figuring out the
programming, for these After Dark events?
Because I think Sam was telling me that
sometimes it's an 18-month lead time.
Sam and his team lead that process
and they're part of my team, but
they are really leading it, and
that team has led it for years.
Of course, they're always eliciting
ideas from others around the
institution, and that's a part of
what makes it a great place is that
ideas can come from all over, but Sam
and his team really lead that work.
Do you have a favorite theme that
the team has done in the past?
I am kind of a big fan of this life
and death one because I actually
think that you need places to
talk about life and death, so it's
nice to have a place to do that.
One of my first memories of
an Exploratorium After Dark,
I think the theme was fear.
And of course we had some social
science experiments about fear, and
the director of public programs at the
time, Melissa Alexander, had brought
in, I think it was the Humane Society,
and they were giving up black cats for
adoption because they're underadopted.
People are afraid of black cats.
So she brought them to the Exploratorium
and I thought, okay, this is a different
kind of place for a science museum.
We really are coming at it from lots
of different angles, and we really are
bringing together the everyday and the
unexpected and surreal phenomena in the
world into this place where we get to
really experience things and think about
and reflect on something like fear.
What a wonderful thing to get to do.
Yeah, because fear is like,
it's so much harder to measure.
It's not something that's quite
quantifiable and objective in the same
way that a lot of things in science
are, and yet it drives so much of our
behavior, so much of how we interact
with each other and with the world.
It's important to understand
and reflect on about yourself.
When you are hiring people for your
team, how do you find the right sort of
person, the right mindset for someone
who wants to work at the Exploratorium?
I've had the great fortune of getting
to hire a lot of people at the
Exploratorium, and that's one of the
parts of my job that's really enjoyable.
We are lucky in that we attract a lot
of people to open positions and we
tend to attract a really diverse pool
of applicants in many different ways.
We also have incredible retention.
The leaders who are working in my team
now have been with the institution for a
really long time, and that's fantastic.
So on the one hand, to get to work with
people over decades and learn together,
you can go further faster when you've
been learners together doing really
difficult things, and we get to bring in
new people with their new perspective.
I frankly am looking for people
who see themselves as learners.
So of course there's expertise
that's required for any role.
In addition to that, there is a
certain interest in continuing
to learn and grow and develop.
So understanding what someone brings
to the table, but also what they think
they have to gain and to learn as a
professional is really important to me.
So we're looking for that.
Could you talk about the sibling museums
to the Exploratorium that you work with?
How do you find those partners?
What does it look like to
work with other museums?
This is a really exciting
part of the work.
The Exploratorium launched this
field of informal science learning
in museums the way that it is today.
It was one of the first museums to
develop this kind of interactive
inquiry-based type of learning, and
now you see it all over the world.
You see Exploratorium-inspired exhibits
in most museums on the planet that
were either inspired by or even
developed by or at the Exploratorium.
It actually became an intentional
part of our practice to partner with
other institutions — and that can be
existing museums or brand new ones
getting started — and more recently
with institutions that don't yet exist.
What happens oftentimes is a personal
experience at the Exploratorium is
really meaningful to someone and
they feel that this is something that
is important for their communities.
Earlier, I was talking about the
idea that this is essential informal
science learning infrastructure that
we need for a resilient society.
When you think about — when you
take a step back [and look at] the
world at large — the word for me
right now is "resilience." That's
something that the future needs, and a
future-resilient world needs curiosity.
As we think about economic resilience
and climate resilience, we think about
what kinds of infrastructure do we need?
We need energy infrastructure,
mobility infrastructure, and we
need learning infrastructure also.
That's a critical place to invest, and
museums provide a lot of that support.
When we are choosing partners, first
they come to us to ask if we can do
something together, and when we're
selecting what feels like a good fit for
partners, they're partners who we think
are well positioned to be successful,
to create that kind of infrastructure,
and to be leaders in the regions where
they are in informal science learning.
We have had the opportunity to do
some really fabulous projects in
partnership, and some of those happened
during Covid that launched just before.
We opened the SESI lab in Brazilia,
Brazil, with an organization called
SESI, which is under the umbrella of
the National Confederation of Industry.
They are supporting workers in industry
across the country in education and health
care and other dimensions, and wanted to
start a place of learning that integrates
art, science, and technology, and just
like the Exploratorium really puts the
learner in the center of that experience.
And so they asked us to work with
them, and so together we developed
this brand new museum that didn't
exist before, and it opened in 2022.
We partnered with Heritage Omaha to create
the Kiewit Luminarium that opened in 2023,
similarly inspired by the Exploratorium,
and in both cases, really grounded
also in their own values and their own
communities and what was important there.
Right now we're partnering with Hyundai
in Seoul, Korea, to create a brand new
science center in the heart of Seoul.
What does that then look like?
Are you then going to be involved in
the programming decisions at these
new museums that are popping up?
These museums are not owned and
operated by the Exploratorium.
They are their own organizations.
They make their own decisions.
We work with them from the day that
they start thinking, "Gosh, it would
be really nice to do something like
this in my community. And what are
we going to create?" That's the
moment that we get involved to work
with them and their communities and
their stakeholders to dream about
what is it that makes sense for your
community that you'd like to create?
And then we work with them all the
way through designing the exhibitions.
We partner with their architects
to advise on the buildings.
We work with them to build their
teams, to build a culture of
learning on those teams so that
when they open, they're ready to go.
They're ready to create their programs.
They're ready to make decisions
and operate those spaces.
We're really proud of the work
that we've done and the work
that our partners are doing.
It's really exciting work to be a part of.
What have you not been able to do yet?
What is your pie-in-the-sky goal, either
in the partnerships world or for here,
the Exploratorium in San Francisco?
Do you have a big thing, a big
project you want to tackle that you
haven't been able to get to yet?
The way I like to think about this
question you're asking me is what's
the future state that I'd like to see?
That's not necessarily one project,
but it's what is this future world
that we're all building together?
Like what does the
Exploratorium look like?
Yeah.
So there are a couple of
things that I hope for.
I hope to continue working
with partners around the world
to build these institutions.
I'll give you one example.
There's a group in Nairobi, Kenya,
right now, called Nemayiana,
they're building the Africa
Museum for Science and Technology.
They're in the early stages of planning.
I feel like a big
champion of that project.
They've identified a strong
need there to build this kind of
essential learning infrastructure.
And so in this future world, I see
that groups like that worldwide who
want to have institutions like the
Exploratorium are able to do that.
And that those places are connected to
one another and are able to see each
other as resources and work together
more broadly to create this future
that we collectively are advancing
research and development for the field.
That's something that I feel
really enthusiastic about.
Is there a little detail somewhere in the
Exploratorium that is really special to
you that maybe most people wouldn't notice
but makes you happy every time you see it?
Okay.
I'll give you a really small detail.
Please.
So small, [laugh] although I don't
think it's unnoticeable, but one of my
very favorite exhibits highlights the
plankton living in a single drop of water.
Wow.
So it's very small and it's very simple.
We have a little dropper, [it] slowly
pushes out a tiny drop of water
from the Bay that has plankton in
it and a light that shines through
it and casts a shadow on the wall.
And you can see the shadow of those
little planktons swimming around
in that little drop of water.
And it's of course larger.
It's enlarged on the wall
because the water is like a lens.
It's pretty amazing.
When you look at the water with your eyes,
you don't necessarily see that there are
microscopic organisms swimming around
in there, but then when you see their
shadows on the wall, you see them and
they're very vibrant, alive and moving.
It's just kind of mind-blowing.
And then you think, wow, there's so
much happening in the world around me
that I may not have noticed before.
It's great to slow down
and take a closer look.
One of my favorite things that we do — and
we can do this now because we're at the
piers — is they take a plankton net out to
the Bay and do a plankton drag every day.
So they're collecting plankton that
are just right there, right off the end
of the pier, and they bring them into
the gallery at the end there, and put
them under the microscope so visitors
can take a look under a microscope on
a big screen of the critters swimming
around in the Bay that you cannot
see just by looking over the railing.
And they change all the time.
So there are all kinds of reasons
why plankton come and go and the
population there is not the same
today as maybe it was last month.
So that means the Explainers are in a
position of putting something in front of
you under the microscope that they don't
know what they're going to see that day.
So they really need to be
curious in real time with you.
And that's a fabulous moment to role
model what learning can look like and
curiosity and not knowing, and taking
maybe what you do know and understand
and patterns that you've seen and
applying it and starting to maybe make
some guesses about what's going on.
And they all have their own ways of asking
questions of what they see, what they
notice, and maybe they look things up.
But this is all just very dynamic.
It's not pre-scripted.
And so I love those moments.
It just brings everyone in to the idea
that we can all learn about the world.
I think it's so easy when you're a kid
to think like, yeah, once I get past 12th
grade or whatever, I'm done with learning.
I'll know everything.
Or once I get past college,
I'm done with learning.
I will be done with all of the studying.
I will have passed all the tests.
And I think it's so important to have
spaces where we're reminding adults
like, nope, you are never done.
There's always more to know.
There's always more.
What's the best thing you've ever
heard a visitor to the museum say?
I think my favorite thing is when I
hear someone call out to someone they
came with, a friend or family member,
"Come over here, you have to see this.
I need to show you something." That's
my favorite thing, and I hear it a lot.
So something sparked something in
somebody and they need to bring
over their friends and family and
share that experience with them.
Then they become the guide
to show what they noticed.
I love those moments.
That happened to me when I
was there with my partner.
She said, "You've got to come over here.
Stand in the middle of these spinning
pieces of leather or fabric and it's
going to feel like the floor is spinning."
[laugh]
I don't know the name of the — you know
what I'm talking about — the installation.
Is this the red and white stripes?
The red and white stripes.
Yes.
That is the trippiest thing
I've ever done at a museum.
[laugh]
That could be said for a
lot of experiences we have.
Do you have a favorite exhibit?
Yeah, I think I tell everybody "this is
my favorite exhibit" maybe 20 times a day.
I have a lot of favorites.
It's a tier.
It doesn't need to be one.
It could be a tier of favorites.
I'll tell you my top favorite
exhibit is actually a sad story
because I also broke it permanently.
Oh my gosh.
It was called Magnetic Labyrinth and
it had two pieces of clear acrylic
pressed together with ferrofluid inside
that you could move with a magnet.
And you see this experience all over
the place where you move ferrofluid
with a magnet, it makes these really
interesting unexpected shapes.
But because it was so flat, the shapes
that it made were particularly satisfying,
and I was helping [laugh] to clean the
exhibit and I went too far and I took it
apart and it cannot be put back together.
Oh no.
[laugh]
I loved it so much.
Well, what happens when an exhibit breaks?
I mean, is the workshop … Are they
able to generally repair exhibits?
Yeah, so that's a really unusual example
because typically things are fixable.
Our exhibits get pulled into the
shop all the time for repairs.
That is a part of the work, and it's
something we pride ourselves in as well.
It doesn't feel great to go to a museum
and find that the exhibits are broken.
In fact, that can be really confusing
when you try to do something and
you're not sure if the result you're
getting is what's supposed to happen,
and then that really can interfere
with your sense of confidence in
your own observations of the world.
So we really try not to have
broken exhibits on the floor.
When something isn't working, it
comes into the shop, it gets repaired,
and that's just a normal part of the
process that we invest in to make
sure things are in good working order.
So obviously, as you said, the
Exploratorium has been a huge
influence on a lot of museums all
around the world ever since Frank
Oppenheimer opened it in the '60s.
What have you been influenced by?
What other museums have you been
influenced by in your work and how have
you applied what you've seen elsewhere?
I feel like I'm being
influenced all the time.
And in fact, I do think that being
out in the world and seeing other
things is critically important.
Not only do I like to get out in
the world but I like our teams to
get out in the world also and be
inspired by all kinds of things.
It can be other museums — it
can be science museums, art
museums, natural history — but
it doesn't have to be museums.
The whole world is an incredible place.
I'm inspired by going
into a redwood forest.
I'm inspired by swimming in the ocean,
especially for the Exploratorium.
And partly when I'm out in the world,
I'm thinking about how you construct a
meaningful experience that feels right
from the perspective of a visitor.
Everything from the question you asked,
what does it feel like to enter the space?
What does it sound like and feel like?
What does the lighting feel like?
All of those things matter.
And what does it require to be able to
engage as a learner in those spaces?
What are the signals that
we're sending to you?
Those things matter.
Something that I think is really
special about the Exploratorium is those
signals are just a little different,
maybe, from what you might expect.
And instead of us telling you "You
need to learn this," you feel like
you are really smart and you're really
capable, those are the signals I want
to send people when they come in.
If you think back at all the museums
that you've been to, just as a patron,
not in a work capacity, but just
[ones] you've visited since childhood,
what's left the biggest impact on you?
One
is a place in Brazil called Inhotim.
It's an art gallery in a botanical garden.
It's a pretty large area that
you can wander around and you're
outside in a botanical garden
environment, which in and of itself
is incredibly inspiring and beautiful.
And then you come upon art installations
that are outdoors and then some that
are small galleries purpose built for
the artist and the art that's inside.
And each gallery and artwork there
is quite provocative and powerful.
And each gallery I would enter, I'd exit
and need to spend that time in the garden
to process and decompress after each
gallery before proceeding to the next one.
It was a really powerful set of
experiences and it's a full day.
That was really meaningful to me.
And every detail of how they've
designed that space is really
carefully thought about.
Another really different one is a
theater experience by Punchdrunk
theater called "Sleep No More."
Oh, I've heard of that.
Yes, yes.
People love that.
It's where you're walking through
one of the Shakespeare plays,
through … Was it "Macbeth"?
Yes, it's inspired by "Macbeth." It's not
entirely the same, but it's an immersive
theater experience where you're in a
multistory building for several hours
where the play is looping all around you.
So you can choose to follow the actors
or come upon them as you go, and you
can explore the set and try to see
what you can understand on your own.
It was a really powerful
experience and it was also really
interesting watching people in
the environment responding to it.
And I could see it's definitely not
for everyone, but for folks who are
interested in it, it came back to
me for a really strong craving for
human interaction in real places.
I could see how important it is to
people to connect with other humans.
And I've been thinking about that a lot.
Ever since we got our Covid vaccines,
I've been thinking a lot about that too,
just how special that is to be in a place
with people, to share an experience,
see other people's reactions to things.
I mean, it's something we
just don't get on our devices.
Yes, exactly.
And now with more and more time spent
mediated through devices, I think
we're all seeing that time spent in
the real world with real phenomena
and other humans and connecting
with other humans really matters.
I would like us all to be designing
for those kinds of experiences
to happen and supporting those
kinds of experiences happening.
When you find yourself in a
museum gift shop, what do you buy?
Oh, I love museum stores.
So do I. I really think it's
the best store in many cities
is just a museum gift shop.
Okay.
What do I buy?
I'm always doing my shopping for
friends and family in museum stores.
What did I buy most recently?
Oh, it's really embarrassing.
Now I have to hear it.
[laugh]
I can't tell you because it's a surprise.
I'll have to go back further in my mind.
I recently came home with
soap made by robots from the
Robot & AI Museum in Seoul.
Oh my gosh.
Soap made by robots.
What does that actually mean?
So they shaped it?
How did they make it?
I didn't ask those questions.
I don't know.
There's a fascination with
things made by robots.
You can have a cup of coffee made
by a robot in the airport if you so
choose, just for the experience of it.
The novelty, yeah.
Exactly.
Well, Dr. Ann Richardson, thank you
so much for coming on the podcast.
It's wonderful to meet you, and I
loved hearing about everything you do.
It's a pleasure talking with you.
Thanks again to Dr. Anne Richardson
for coming on the podcast.
The Exploratorium is open Tuesday through
Sunday from 10:00 AM to 5:00 PM, and
its weekly After Dark events happen
every Thursday from 6:00 to 10:00 PM.
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Special thanks this week to Sam
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Thank you for listening and I'll
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