Subscribe
Share
Share
Embed
HR Voices is a scenario-based podcast for People Leaders who’ve actually had to make the call.
Each episode brings experienced HR and People leaders into realistic, anonymized workplace scenarios—the kind you recognize immediately. Performance issues. Messy conflicts. Investigations that don’t fit neatly into a policy box. Instead of talking about their own companies, guests react to outside cases and walk through how they’d think it through in real time.
There are no right answers here. What you’ll hear is judgment: how seasoned leaders balance risk, fairness, legal reality, and humanity when the stakes are high and the path isn’t obvious.
HR Voices is for HR, People Ops, legal, and leaders who want to hear how other smart humans actually handle employee relations—without confidentiality breaches, hypotheticals that feel fake, or a lecture on “best practices.”
Rebecca Taylor (00:17)
Hello and welcome to HR Voices. I'm your host, Rebecca Taylor, and I'm here with Jill Gawrych, the CHRO at Springs Window Fashions. Jill, thank you so much for being here.
Jill Gawrych (00:25)
So excited to be here, Rebecca. I can't wait to get into our conversation today.
Rebecca Taylor (00:29)
I know,
me too. And for those who are new here, HR Voices explores real and fabricated anonymized employee relations scenarios through the lens of experienced HR and people leaders just like Jill. So we evaluate realistic workplace situations and demonstrate how we would assess risk, apply judgment, and design practical responses. So the goal here is to reveal how strong HR leaders think when they're facing ambiguity. We're not necessarily here to find a single correct answer, because as we know, in HR, that doesn't always exist.
Jill Gawrych (00:56)
Unfortunately, it
doesn't.
Rebecca Taylor (00:59)
Yes, so
much of HR is in the gray and kind of figuring out, you know, how do you want to navigate this particular situation, right?
Jill Gawrych (01:06)
Absolutely, absolutely. And I love this because I feel like so many of us have a story around this that we've had to deal with. And so it's helpful to know we're not alone.
Rebecca Taylor (01:13)
Mm-hmm. Yes, yes.
And I think that's so true. It's like we're not alone and we have to learn from each other and talk to each other too, because that's kind of where you kind of get the instincts or the skill to figure things out more so than just following a strict playbook all the time, because it doesn't always exist. ⁓ yeah. Are you ready for your scenario? OK, so we're calling this one the boomerang employee problem.
Jill Gawrych (01:29)
Absolutely, you got it.
I am, let's go.
Rebecca Taylor (01:40)
A high-performing employee leaves voluntarily for a competitor, citing career growth. 18 months later, she applies to return. Her former manager wants to rehire her at a higher level and salary. However, HR discovers that during her exit interview, she made undocumented complaints about her manager's conduct, complaints that were noted informally but never investigated. Rehiring her would place her back under the same manager. Not hiring her feels retaliatory for protected complaints.
HR must decide how to handle the unresolved prior complaint before any rehire decision is made. So, yeah, before we even dive into all the nuances, what stands out to you as the most risky or the most unclear in this scenario?
Jill Gawrych (02:12)
tricky.
Yeah, I mean, there's so much in here, but I would say first and foremost is really what happened. So really trying to find those HR people that had those documented notes at the beginning because how do you or undocumented notes, right? Once you write them down, they're documented anyway. And so really what happened there? How did we get them? And was anything at all done with that at the time that this
person left the first time around would be my first pass before I even go to outside or anything else. But really that first question internally of what is it, what happened, and who was here when it went on.
Rebecca Taylor (03:00)
Yeah, yeah.
And what's risky in this? Like, you know, I know that the lack of clarity sometimes is risky in and of itself, right? Because you don't really know what you're going to unpack. But are there any other flags that are showing for you?
Jill Gawrych (03:03)
Yeah.
after.
Absolutely. I mean, it could be a case of this person left and there could be a litigious person that left, right? Like, so there's always that risk, but also bringing somebody back after there was a challenge, so, and you didn't do anything about it, that's risky too. And so you can't bring them back without risk. You can't not bring them back without risk. And so there's no straight answer to get you from here to there. And then because 18 months has passed,
So I think that was the timeframe. ⁓ You know, it wasn't three weeks and somebody wanted to come back. So you investigate and all the same things are right there. Now you're 18 months in the future. Is that manager, do they have an issue? Do they not? You didn't deal with it 18 months ago. Now you deal with it. Do you have another risk because you...
Rebecca Taylor (03:41)
Mm-hmm.
Jill Gawrych (04:00)
are dealing with the manager and that manager might actually claim retaliation of some sort as well. And so so many different landmines to step on throughout all of it.
Rebecca Taylor (04:10)
Yeah, I think it's a good flag. It's like there could be retaliation on the candidate side for not hiring them. But also if you punish the manager or, you if you take action, then the manager can also claim retaliation too, which is a big one, right? That's one you really want to not mess with.
Jill Gawrych (04:23)
Yep.
Absolutely,
absolutely.
Rebecca Taylor (04:27)
Yeah. So as you're going through
trying to uncover exactly what it is that happened, who do you talk to? Like, who do you start the conversations with?
Jill Gawrych (04:36)
Yeah, absolutely. So for me, first and foremost, I gather my HR team, right? So if they were here or there was somebody here, I want to talk to that person who said, OK, what did this look like? What did this feel like? What kinds of notes do you know or what was happening at that point in time? And if that person was here, that's exactly where I'd start with. And at this point in time, for me as an HR leader, it becomes two different paths. One is getting this sorted. How do we go down the path of
this person in this situation. And the other is what happened to my HR team where this broke down because I don't want to be in this situation 18 months later. In fact, I just had one like this where it was very a question around this person left. This is what they said, but they gave their notice. And I'm like, it doesn't matter, right? Like we need to close it out because we don't know what's happening. And we don't want leaders that aren't leaving a good impression with somebody in our organization.
or to have that hovering over. And so as I go back into the situation, I'm going to talk to HR first, and then I'm going to have a conversation with that manager. The challenge is going to be talking to the manager without actually giving at first glance the situation at hand, right? We don't want to color a situation. And I also don't want to say, hey, you were named in an investigation 18 months ago with this person you want to rehire.
Rebecca Taylor (05:49)
Mmm.
Jill Gawrych (05:58)
because if they do rehire them, we certainly don't want a bad situation created immediately or the ability for that manager to actually retaliate against the hiring. And so it's a very careful conversation to kind of go, hey, I heard you wanted to bring that person back. Help me understand.
Rebecca Taylor (06:08)
Mm-hmm.
Jill Gawrych (06:17)
what did they bring to you? What was the right, like they left, what are they bringing back? You're hiring them then a different role and kind of understand a little bit more of the why of why the hiring manager wants to do that. ⁓ Clearly something was uncomfortable when that person left if they had these notes written down. And so for the manager not to know anything about that would be strange, I think.
Rebecca Taylor (06:40)
Yeah, yeah. But I do kind of wonder if the manager does know though, because sometimes people when they're leaving, they're in their exit interview and all of a sudden all this truth comes out or, you know, truth, you know, with quotes, right? Or all of the, their experience or their interpretation of their experience. Sometimes it's the first time that people give real feedback because they're like, I have nothing to lose, right? So I'm also curious about, there other complaints about this manager?
Jill Gawrych (07:02)
Yep.
Rebecca Taylor (07:07)
you know, has anything or any type of trend that someone else may have also reported. Was it just isolated to this one person? Was it something that happened once or was it a pattern of behavior? And was it just conduct that they didn't like or conduct that was actually wrong? Because that's another thing that I'm like, sometimes you just might not like it, but it's not wrong or bad, right?
Jill Gawrych (07:23)
Yeah.
Absolutely.
The difference between is it unethical or is it just bad leadership, right? Like one you can, when you have to do something about, but one is a longer term, right? Bad leadership will, that'll be a challenge, but it's not a lawsuit waiting to happen at least sometimes. So.
Rebecca Taylor (07:34)
Yeah.
Yeah,
yeah.
Jill Gawrych (07:45)
⁓
But like you said, how do you find those people? So like, how does the manager actually know? And then, you know, fast forward 18 months, obviously, there's another position open on this manager's team. So I'd look at, has there been a lot of turnover on this manager's team already, right? Have a lot of people left, what does that look like? And if there's people here trying to have a conversation with them that says, hey,
Right, like what do you, the same way I would even if there wasn't any documentation from somebody, if we were doing a rehire, I would want to know as much as I possibly can if I didn't work with that person directly. Because sometimes we do see it as an easy win to hire somebody who's worked here before. Well, they know the process, the system, the company, but it's not always a good choice, right? And so let's make sure it's a good choice. And so that gives you the...
Rebecca Taylor (08:30)
Yeah.
Jill Gawrych (08:33)
⁓ ability to go have a conversation with the team to say, this person wants to come back and see if they have any stories from that time as well, because that would be important to know.
Rebecca Taylor (08:46)
Yeah, yeah, I think it's a good point is just sort of talking to other people on their team, you know, on their team too, to kind of just say they're thinking of coming back. What is that? You know, how do you all, what do you all think of that? Are there any assumptions that you're being very careful to not make at this stage?
Jill Gawrych (08:56)
You got it.
Yeah, I think it's on both sides, right? Like, I think you really have to, you can't assume the manager was in the wrong, even though sometimes we jump to that of, a person said this and so the manager must be wrong. And we also conversely should not assume that the person who exited was in the wrong, right? And so it might've just been a bad situation at that time between the two of them. And like you said, it's not always, ⁓
How wrong is it, right? Is it a leadership issue? It just wasn't working. There was prioritization issues. There can be all kinds of things that work is work for a reason. It's hard some days. ⁓ Or was it truly an issue of discrimination or of something of that nature? And we just don't know.
Rebecca Taylor (09:32)
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
At any point, do you talk to the candidate, the person returning?
Jill Gawrych (09:54)
Yeah, I think you have to at some point, right? And so to me, I always want to know as much as possible before I go into that conversation so that I can at least have some idea. But I don't know how you, like, it's hard to bring that person back into what could be a bad situation. But I don't know how you don't bring that person back.
without a hard, right? Like, because otherwise that does feel like retaliation against, particularly if the leaders already said, or we've documented that we would move forward with hiring. And so that would be my probably almost last or second to last step is talking to the candidate and saying, okay, let's talk through when you left, what was the situation? And then I think when we're ready to talk to that candidate, that's when we truly reopen.
Rebecca Taylor (10:17)
Yeah.
Jill Gawrych (10:45)
not re but open an investigation that should have been opened when they first left versus now. But I think you have to talk to them and really start in the, why would you want to come back? And here's this documentation and I haven't found other documentation of the investigation or anything where we've looked into it. So let's do that first.
Rebecca Taylor (10:47)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Jill Gawrych (11:06)
And I would absolutely pause the hiring of that position either for that person to move into it or anybody else moving into that role. That is high risk right there.
Rebecca Taylor (11:14)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah,
because it's like you don't want to then you don't want to keep interviewing when you've already made the offer to someone. Because then it looks like you're not going to hire this person. ⁓ And, you know, I think that if I were if I were the candidate and I get a phone call saying, well, last time you left was because you, you know, you cited these things on your exit interview. Are these going to be, you know, let can we talk a little bit more about them?
Jill Gawrych (11:22)
You got it.
Absolutely.
Rebecca Taylor (11:44)
I think I would kind of like, I'd have to either really consider if I want to come back or the conditions that I'm coming back. And like, you have to kind of wonder it, let's say, and again, this is a fabricated scenario too for the record. So these are not real people, real things. There's everything can be taken with a grain of salt, right? So if the candidate does come back and you're starting an investigation, the investigation that should have started 18 months ago, you you're starting it now.
Jill Gawrych (11:51)
Yeah.
Right, right,
Rebecca Taylor (12:11)
Is that candidate set up for success? is that new hire, I should say, at that point set up for success when they're immediately being, they and their manager are immediately being investigated and possibly other people on the team who were there when this happened or allegedly happened.
Jill Gawrych (12:21)
Yeah,
completely agree. It's a tough one. But the other question is, if you're not willing to do that, why does the candidate want to come back? So I want to work for a company that is do the right thing always, highly ethical. And so in this case, something got by us. Unfortunately, we didn't do the right thing. And so now that we know you have to do the right thing. so
Rebecca Taylor (12:30)
Yeah.
Jill Gawrych (12:45)
I would not want to be a candidate in that situation, but neither would I want to be a candidate where the company did not take my words seriously enough and didn't investigate it. I would actually feel better about having a conversation. who knows? There could be a reflection of, yeah, that's how I felt, but now you could have a...
it's not all age, but sometimes you don't have the experience to understand how an organization works or how trade-offs are made in funding or prioritization or those kinds of things. And it gets wrapped up in my manager did something. ⁓ And so I think that can be challenging for sure. And so maybe they had a perspective change or something of that nature and it makes it easy and they actually feel better then because you talk to them. But if it's something more than that,
Rebecca Taylor (13:22)
Mm-hmm.
Jill Gawrych (13:36)
A, we need to know from an organizational perspective, but B, don't come back here. Don't come back to the same manager to be treated that same way. I would just want to really have an open conversation with that person of like, hey, we need to do our due diligence around this manager. That could be a big problem. so shame on us for not being able to go down that path and take a little bit of self-reflection.
Rebecca Taylor (13:42)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Jill Gawrych (14:01)
as we talk to the candidate to try to make that a good experience for sure. ⁓
Rebecca Taylor (14:05)
Yeah, yeah. And I think
the thing that's also in my mind is memory and memory is famously unreliable. And one of the parts of or one of the details in this, again, fabricated story that I'm going to sort of just pick up on is that she's making undocumented complaints and they were noted informally, but never investigated. So like your investigation kind of has to work off of the documentation, the little bit of documentation that you might have. But I'd be very, very worried about asking people
Jill Gawrych (14:10)
Mm.
Absolutely.
Rebecca Taylor (14:35)
questions now off of their memory for something that happened that for the interview was 18 months ago, right? So who knows when the alleged incidents actually happened? It's just very hairy. Documentation is so important.
Jill Gawrych (14:39)
of
Absolutely. And you're so
right. And at that point in time, you also don't have any plausible deniability, right? Like you can't say you didn't know because you saw it and now you've had a conversation with this candidate. And we also know that sometimes there's things that are said, not that we love this, but people, associates will say things that aren't true or they just don't like that person or they do...
Rebecca Taylor (14:53)
Yeah.
Jill Gawrych (15:13)
We've all had those associates that are just like, my gosh, they cause more problems than it's worth. Not that it's wrong. If something's going on, they should report it and all of that. But what if it was like, okay, we know this isn't true. And now 18 months, because you didn't investigate, you have this situation where you almost feel like you have to hire them or it does feel retaliatory. And so it's such a challenging one if you actually don't wanna move forward with the hire as well.
Rebecca Taylor (15:17)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, it's a real rock and a hard place. like there's risk. Again, classic HR, there's risk in every direction. No matter what you're rolling the dice, right? On how it's going to play out. And it's so hard sometimes to just be unbiased in these types of scenarios because it's just, human, right? Like that's all of us. Like we all are kind of like, we're all gonna come in with our own opinions. And I think the biggest muscle that we have to work in HR is the one that's just like, no.
Jill Gawrych (15:41)
Yeah.
Yeah.
completely.
Rebecca Taylor (16:07)
Like just be unbiased, look at the exact facts for what they are and try to navigate this as best as you can.
Jill Gawrych (16:13)
You got it. Like you always have to come with an idea of it doesn't matter if you like them, don't like them, like that manager, don't like that manager. Like none of that plays any role, right? Like it's not about liking somebody and it's hard not to be biased for people you've worked with or gosh, I didn't like that manager. I knew there was something wrong, right? Like we can do it that way sometimes too. And it just isn't, doesn't work. ⁓
Rebecca Taylor (16:25)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Jill Gawrych (16:40)
But it's exactly why, you know, there are a million shades of gray in HR, but it's exactly why there are some things that aren't a shade of gray, like, hey, when something happens, you need to investigate no matter if you think it's real or not, right? Like our job is to see those things and act upon it.
And hopefully it's a quick in and out and okay, they said this and we investigated and here's the notes and it's closed so that 18 months later you can pull it out and go, here's what happened and why. That is, that investigation part is black and white. You need to do one.
Rebecca Taylor (17:15)
Yeah, yeah. And I think
it's like a lot of times we see HR folks will not do the investigation either because they're not really sure what steps to take or they don't have a great place to document things. I mean, we talked to so many people where their employee relations documentation lives in spreadsheets or in Google Docs. you know, and it's just it's not clear if you don't know where to start to attack this, you know, this problem or this investigation, especially in a situation where
Jill Gawrych (17:26)
Yeah.
Yep.
Yup.
Rebecca Taylor (17:45)
it's from someone who's leaving the company, it can be easy to deprioritize that. It can be easy to justify deprioritizing that, even though it's the wrong thing. And it's why, like, you know, we're big, we talk about documentation all the time. It's like, just write it down, get it documented, and then, you know, have a really good process to investigate something, even if one of the parties isn't there anymore, because you just have to ask questions. You just need to kind of cover your bases, you know?
Jill Gawrych (17:52)
Yep.
You got it.
Absolutely, absolutely. I had a CHRO one time who always was, you have to document then and put it in a memo back to them of what did you do? What'd you find? How'd you base it? And I hated those memos, but now they are my best friend. don't like memo everything. And then you keep that because you know that everybody has the same information and you can always pull it back. But.
Rebecca Taylor (18:24)
Yeah. Yup.
Jill Gawrych (18:35)
so true of trying to find it, right? So you've had turnover, you've had, right, like new people, new everywhere, even if you don't have turnover, it's hard to find that document in if you don't have a system or another good process to go through for that.
Rebecca Taylor (18:38)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah,
especially if you're trying to remember, rely on memory too. When it's just like, I don't know about you, but especially when you're in HR, every single hour there's a new thing with a new person. It's just like, wait, I forgot everything that we were just talking about. So write down everything.
Jill Gawrych (19:02)
Absolutely. You got it. Absolutely. hopefully AI
and search can be your best friend at some point.
Rebecca Taylor (19:10)
Yes. Yep, exactly. Exactly. It's
like, just get the information in there, AI will help you make sense of it, and then at least it's something. So in a scenario like this, what's the risk of moving too fast, and what's the risk of waiting? Like to make a decision.
Jill Gawrych (19:17)
Yep, you got it.
Yeah, I think if you wait to make a decision, so many things could happen. One is the manager communicates directly to that candidate and says, hey, you're my candidate. I'm going to hire you. If you don't get involved quickly, it might already have happened, knowing that that manager and that candidate have a relationship. But so I think you have to get involved quickly and get to the heart of it.
go too quickly though, I think as you said before, then you kind of start tripping over each other. You call the candidate before you're ready to have a conversation with the candidate. This is absolutely one that I would want to talk through with potentially my legal employment attorney, hey, this situation is happening, especially once you have a...
idea of what might be going on. So after you've talked to internal HR or the team at the time or the manager and have some good ideas, I would probably have a conversation with my employment attorney at that time for nothing else to get another thought partner on it because there are so many ways this could go. And so the other part of this is making sure you're not moving so fast that you can't think through scenarios before they happen.
I always want to sit down and go, okay, if they say this or if they do that, and not that they'll do it exactly as I have it played out in my mind, but at least they'll know a direction and won't be super surprised by any which way that this might go. And so I'm always more biased for action than not. So I would always want to go in quicker. And the thing that I would want to do fast is say, all right, everybody just stop.
Rebecca Taylor (20:42)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Jill Gawrych (21:07)
We're not talking to the candidate. We're going to tell them we're pausing for a moment. We're not talking, like, don't have six conversations. Let's have one conversation, figure out how we're moving it forward. Everybody stay connected and then get to the end of it.
Rebecca Taylor (21:07)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, yeah. I think it's a really good balance of like, you want to move quickly enough where you're not leaving room for things to sort of fall through the cracks or kind of get out of your control, where people are taking action, know, unsanctioned action, right? Yeah, yeah. And all with the best of intentions, right? Like we all get impatient. We all, you know, it's the way that it's just how human nature is. I also have a bias for action. So I'm with you. I'm like, let's do this now, or let's move as quickly as possible.
Jill Gawrych (21:31)
Yep.
We all know that happens. ⁓
Yeah.
Yup.
Rebecca Taylor (21:49)
But I think
your point of ⁓ having sort of, if not a script, just a flow chart of maybe the different ways that different folks can respond to things, just so you can, even if you're not trying to write the script for the conversation itself, it's like, you can know that you have the answers for those different areas. And if any one of those would throw you off your game, not the right time to talk to the candidate. I think talking to the candidates probably more risky than talking to the manager at this point, just since they don't work there yet, right? So it's like, there's more.
Jill Gawrych (22:04)
You got
Yes,
you got it. Absolutely. Well, and you have less, I don't want to say control, but the manager, can at least say, this is my expectation. I don't want you to do this, or I do want you to do this. And there's some belief that they will do that because they work at the company that you're at. And so you have a little bit more control over that situation as well. ⁓ So I think that's important. And at any point in time, I always tell my team this too, if you get into it and something comes out of left field,
Rebecca Taylor (22:17)
There's more of a loose cannon there sometimes.
Yeah.
Jill Gawrych (22:45)
you can always go, wow, okay, that's great information I didn't realize and pause the conversation, right? Like come back, regroup and then go at it again.
Rebecca Taylor (22:52)
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, we don't have to fill in the silence or we don't have to fill in with things that we want to take back later. Yeah. So we're in this market where we see a lot of people coming and going from companies for different reasons, right? Sometimes it's their choice, sometimes it's not. So for our HR folks who are listening to this, who might be looking at Boomerang candidates ⁓ specifically, like whatever the context might be of why they came and left.
Jill Gawrych (22:59)
You got it, you got it.
Mm-hmm.
Rebecca Taylor (23:19)
What would you put in place if you were an HR person? You are an HR person. So what would you put in place before something like this would happen again? Any advice for folks that are dealing with boomerangs?
Jill Gawrych (23:32)
Yeah, absolutely. So I think it's twofold. One is it is that exit interview and making sure that you pay attention to the exit interview. It's ⁓ valuable information. We don't always do things with it. But if you ask, you should at least understand the risk that's in anything. The same in engagement surveys or other things where you have open ended comments. It's sometimes ⁓ it gets lost, right? Like you move on to the next thing and you might not actually read it. But from a boomerang perspective, then when you're rehiring,
having that documentation of why they left and what that looks like, right, is so important. And then like any candidate, I wanna do kind of reference checks. And so who worked with them when they were here? What does that look like? Why did they leave and why do they wanna come back? I'm a boomerang of a company that I went to and so I'm not opposed to boomerang hiring. That can be really great.
⁓ But I do think that it's important to treat them like any other candidate and go, what happened when they were here? Why did they leave? Why are they coming back? And just making sure we understand that before you jump into hiring anyone at all.
Rebecca Taylor (24:37)
Yeah, yeah, I think it's a good call and it's especially, I think, good to look into that when you first get their resume, right? Like that kicks off probably the interview process or whether or not you are going to move forward with an interview, right?
Jill Gawrych (24:45)
Yeah, absolutely. Completely
agree. It's almost like getting an internal candidate, right? Like when you get that internal candidate expressed interest before you go through a process, you kind of want to know, do they have the experience or is it going to be more informational and making sure you set that up appropriately at the beginning? But yeah, not a we're hiring them because it's easy.
Rebecca Taylor (24:55)
Mm-hmm.
Jill Gawrych (25:12)
Right. Unfortunately, that's what happens too much with boomerang employees.
Rebecca Taylor (25:12)
Yeah.
Yeah,
because it's like they're known, right? Like the devil you know is better than the devil you don't. So it's like, yeah, it does get complicated. Okay, I have one more final question for you because believe it or not, we're actually almost at time, which is kind of wild. I know. So what is one assumption about HR that you think needs to be challenged?
Jill Gawrych (25:19)
got it. Yep. You got it. Absolutely. All right.
No fact. Yeah, absolutely.
One assumption about HR. I would say that the assumption that HR is really only company for the company, right? So we talk so much about HR and what we do and absolutely that's part of our job is to make sure that the company stays safe. But we are so pro associate as well, right? We want the company to be successful so associates can be successful.
⁓ And we are in the background pushing information with the managers saying, did you have that conversation? Did you put it in their performance review? There's so many times when I will tell a leader, you think you might've said that, but when you were just talking about it, those are not the words that are coming out of your mouth. It's so much harder to have a conversation in person with someone.
And so we are coaching those managers to make sure the associates have a good experience. And so that is all for the people in the company, not for the company itself. And so I always, if people have challenges, they should go to their HR person. If you don't have the right HR person, I'm so sorry, you should find one.
⁓ But I think the right HR people are truly there for the people and helping the people be successful. So the business can be successful ultimately. Yeah.
Rebecca Taylor (26:59)
Yeah, I love that. Thank you for that. And I
think what I heard from that is if you don't have a great HR person to go to, reach out to you, right? You could be the, yeah, that's what I heard. ⁓ That's what I heard. Everybody go to jail.
Jill Gawrych (27:06)
I think so. I love talking to people. great. Absolutely. Bring it on.
Rebecca Taylor (27:14)
Thank you so much, This was so fun. Thank you for sharing all your wisdom, all your tips and tricks, and for being here and chatting through this scenario with me.
Jill Gawrych (27:16)
Thank
This was really great. Thanks for having me.
Rebecca Taylor (27:23)
Yeah, thank you everybody for listening and have a great rest of your day. Bye.