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This podcast covers from START to FINISH How to Acquire a Dental Practice. Michael Dinsio, founder of Next Level Consultants has literally seen hundreds of deals as a banker in the industry & he has personally consulted hundreds of dentists as a Buyers Representative. Michael talks with GUEST SPEAKERS about Due Diligence, Legal, Demographics, and more... He invites experts to the show to help you avoid those headaches and heartbreaks. So start at the TOP w/ Episode 01 and work your way through the transition process. We break it down step by step in a true #UNSCRIPTED and genuine way.
Unknown: Oh yeah, here we go practice acquisition.
There are pitfalls throughout the entire process
want to buy a practice this is how folks
acquisition unscripted the truth when buying and
selling a dental practice. And now your host,
Michael Jensen.
Michael Dinsio: All right. All right. Welcome.
Welcome back. Thanks, everyone for joining in
tuning in to another episode. If this is your
first time joining Welcome, and thanks for tuning
in. If this is your last time, I appreciate
spending time with me today. But today, we got a
great episode. Again, this is dental acquisition,
unscripted. And today, it's all all things
acquisition. And we're gonna get into reputation
and Google reviews and all kinds of stuff today.
And it's so important because when you buy a
practice, you know, you're just probably seeing
the same things I'm seeing where sellers didn't
really pay attention to this stuff. And it's very
important today, as everybody knows, everybody
looks at Google, everybody is making decisions
based on Google. And today, we have a solution to
potentially fix that if you're buying a practice
that has a crappy reputation. So today, we are
interviewing a guy named creed, which I love the
name creed, and he is representing a company
called swell. Big fan of swell for a lot of
reasons. But with that, with that being secreted.
Thanks for joining in. How you doing.
Creed Walker: Thank you so much. Thanks for the
introduction. I'm happy to be here.
Michael Dinsio: Heck, yeah. What do you think
about that music on the way in? Were you were you
rocking?
Creed Walker: It gets you so pumped up, you're
like, is this like an NBA game? What are we about
to participate in here?
Michael Dinsio: Yes. Well, you know, sometimes I
come in and I'm tired. And sometimes I'm doing
these, these interviews in the mid mid day or
whatever, right? And, and I turn on the intro, and
I'm all jacked. I'm on my fourth cup of coffee
already this morning. And let's freakin and make
some shot. Like, let's shoot some hoops and have
some fun right now. But big, big picture, man. So
why don't you just give me like, give me the high
level of like, what what swell is and I find that
I lose everybody after like five minutes of just
burnt rom rom so so make it short and sweet. But
at the same time, we're gonna get into some fun
stuff today. So what who is swell? What do you
guys do?
Creed Walker: Yeah, absolutely. So swell is a
patient feedback solution really is what we are.
So a lot of people know us and love us. And our
main side of everything is making sure that
offices rock as far as their brand and their
reputation online. So across multiple sites,
including Facebook, Yelp, Healthgrades. But our
big behemoth because it's the behemoth of a world
is Google is making sure that these offices look
great on Google, this matters for a lot of
reasons, getting into the technical side of SEO
and the ranking process. But then also more on the
let's call it the psychological side of things of
getting sick when a patient finds you. Yeah, when
a patient finds you, what are they thinking? I
mean, are they looking at your office and saying,
Is this place like going through a lawsuit right
now? Because you have one star in your dental
office? Or is it they look at you and they're
like, there's absolutely no reason why I should
even look anywhere else, because I'm five stars,
and I've got 1000 2000 reviews coming in. So
that's the high level of swell is we're making
sure you're looking great. Utilizing your patient
feedback for it.
Michael Dinsio: Yeah, man. Let's be honest, it is
Google rules the world man. It's the alphabet crew
over there. And they're just like, what what don't
they control? It's like the mothership. But you're
you're 100% Folks, if you're buying anything, if
you're doing anything, and you're our age, you
know, Creed. I'm probably older than you. I know I
am. I'm just trying to make myself feel good right
now. But if you're, you know, if you've got a cell
phone, and it's a smart device, you're you're
probably like looking at Google, you're looking at
the reviews, you're doing the math in your head,
and you're saying, let's just disqualify this one.
And let's just ask these guys and, and and so the
business, the people the brand that does this the
best wins, facts, facts, right? You guys do
research on this back to the psychological game?
Good. You guys do research on this, you have some
data to spit out?
Creed Walker: We do. Yeah. So we're definitely
constantly doing a lot of research around just
serving people as well as keeping up with the the
trends of the Google rankings and, and how they're
going to actually produce for you as a dental
officer as a business in general. The reality is,
and I want to go back to what you're saying, with
buyers today are just people today making
decisions on who they're going to trust. You are
only as good as Google says you are. I mean,
that's the Yeah, you said they're the mothership.
I mean, they basically just control everything. So
we want to make sure that you're looking great
there. And then going back to that research point
is what we find is, really, if we break it down,
you have to be competitive reviews is a moving
target, depending on where you're at how populated
your area is. So if you're in a downtown area,
generally across the board, let's say, no matter
where you are in rural or downtown, the star
ranking, you got to be above a 4.7, or LC in our
brains, we say, Oh, I don't know, 4.5 stars,
that's maybe a little bit too much discretion
there for for some bad stuff to happen.
Michael Dinsio: So 4.7, that's, That's the break?
Creed Walker: Exactly. So that's where we look at
it. And we say, hey, you know what, as a as a
human, we say, I'm probably going to trust this
place. And then going one level deeper into the
number of those reviews, because then you look at
it. And that's the next thing we look at right is
it's 4.0. There's there's five stars, but there's
one review, and it's maybe the mom of the person
that owns that business. So it's like, why does
that even matter anyway?
Michael Dinsio: Well, it's the dentists in an
alias. That's what it is. Exactly,
Creed Walker: yeah, it's his wife, who's also the
office manager. So that's where it's just you
don't, that's where the volume really comes to
play here, in a really heavily populated area that
matters even more than in a rural area. So all
these things are moving factors. But yeah,
definitely, we've done a lot of research around
this, knowing you know, what, what are these
patients or potential patients going to be looking
for for a practice? And how are you going to
actually attract those? And then one step beyond
that on the technical side? Is Google even putting
you in front of that potential patient? Or are you
not even showing up anywhere? Because Google says,
Oh, you have a three star average, we're
definitely not recommending you to our users. And
that's the other piece of that equation.
Michael Dinsio: And that happens, right? So Google
does control and, and, you know, the world of
Google has has changed us in a in a hot minute,
where now maps is like, the most important thing
where you Google, you know, dentists near me. And
it's all it's all the listings, from a Maps
perspective. And by the way that puts your, your
Google stars, front and center, right? Am I off on
them?
Creed Walker: Yeah, you're exactly right. The
thing that we found is, and I'm forgetting the
exact percentage, but it is the vast majority,
never even land on your website. They just google
the name. I mean, think about URI if we were,
yeah, if we're looking up a place to eat lunch
today, I'm not clicking on, you know, the
McDonald's website, like I'm just looking at, and
I'm just saying, oh, yeah, these have good star
rating, herbal exams have bad star ratings. And
then I give a call, so that a dental office is
it's not that much different. You're just Googling
it. You're looking at those first 567 search
results. And the only information you get on those
is the Google rate, the Google review ratings and
number of reviews, phone number address in an
image, and that's about it. And people make their
decision based off of that information that they
just saw.
Michael Dinsio: You know, that's really
interesting. You say that because I'm in dental
offices every single day. It seems like I'm having
these conversations and most of my clients are
making what they do really complicated. Oh, you
know, yeah, you know, clinical this jargon that
and, you know, this is a medical facility and,
and, you know, what do you mean they're not
signing consents. It's just like the truth, the
truth of the matter is Dentistry has become such a
restaurant decision. Like, like to the average Joe
walking in the street, they don't value dentistry
like we do in the dental community and world. And
it's just really interesting because if you get
sucked into the dental community, it's like, oh,
look at that crown margin right there. It's
couldn't be better. And do the patients have no
bleeping clue. And so and so the more you
understand the business, and how you have to make
it relatable, and how you can win with tools like
swell, the more successful you will be, they
always say that the best dentists might not have
the best business, but you could be a terrible
dentist and have a crazy good business. And so,
alright, so enough about that. Let's just Let's
just calm down, Mike, let's just calm down, and
let's get let's get into swell. So let's get into
the mechanics of like, why swell is better than x,
or just yeah, in general, like reputation. And I
will. And I'll add, that we've had clients that
have used swell and saw their Google stars, not
stars, but number of Google reviews just explode.
And it's, and I'll never forget the two clients,
if my partner was on the phone. Paula, if she'd
been on the phone, she'd know exactly who I'm
talking about. Because it went from like, you
know, embarrassing to crazy. And I was like, Holy
crap, this Swell thing work. So yeah, what are you
guys doing? Like, let's get into it? What are you
doing? What are you doing?
Creed Walker: Yeah, yeah, what's the secret sauce,
right. So there's really, there's really I'll
break this down to a couple of things here. So
first of all, as we look at competitors, so you
say swell versus whoever XYZ. So there's really,
I'm gonna break this out to like two tiers of
reputation management companies. So there's going
to be your premium, top level, top shelf tools,
this is going to be swell, there's really three of
us swell. And then podium and BirdEye are going to
be your other ones. And the reason for this is,
this is all we focus on as businesses. Now the gap
between us three is is widening over the years,
we're focusing on different things, and I'll touch
on that in just one second. But those are really
kind of your top tier competitors, you're not
going to see us sit in the same office. Now the
next level down, is what most people are going to
be utilizing, if we're being honest, is going to
be your practice management system. A lot of those
are just doing a check the box solution ...
Michael Dinsio: The clouds of the world? Kind of
trying to download and do what you guys do. Okay?
Creed Walker: Exactly. They say they're the all in
one, right. And in some ways, they're probably
great. We've seen on the reputation side, not so
great. It's a little lackluster, as well, as you
know, your patient engagement tools that are doing
your forms and confirmations, reminders in any
number and maybe your marketing agency is also
doing something they've built something in house,
these are kind of your steer, second tier, check
the box solutions is what we call it. So they're
not going to get you as good of the your reviews
are really not going to move much with those types
of solutions compared to a premium solution like a
swell. Now, the difference is here. And there's
really three main things that swell does that
that's our secret sauce. Oh boy really likes that
standard love. Here's the recipe. Here's the
recipe. So first of all, we're Daniel specific. So
we know dental offices very well. We know the pain
points of the office, we know the pain points of a
patient. And we can really customize the
experience to that. So we have pre built templates
and things built out so that an office can say
hey, look, we need more reviews. Swell, please do
your thing. And we just go and do that we don't
need your help. We don't need you to tell us you
know how your office runs. We know it we know
dentistry, we know what's going on there. So the
second piece is here. Going off of that is our
integrations. So swell is a fully automated
system. So what that means is we integrate into
the practice management software. I think most
people are going to be familiar with how that
process works and you're probably have experience
with that in some way. With all your
Michael Dinsio: all with All practice management
software's do you integrate with all of them?
Creed Walker: Yeah, so we're we cover about 95%.
Now there's some really small, you know, really
small practice management. But generally, I mean,
all of your definitely all of your open Dental,
Eagle, SOPs, den tricks, I mean, anything like
that, and then beyond even into your specialties,
when OMS, things like that, we integrate with that
as well. So we're gonna plug right in. And then we
pull about 10 fields of data from your practice
management once a day. And what we gather is
really in detailed, and there's nobody else that
does this in our field. So we're pulling the
procedure code, the provider code, the operatory,
your appointment status, what that all allows us
to do is customize the messages that go out. So
swell will text, those patients that had an
appointment today with a highly customized text
message. So it has the image of the provider, they
saw that day. So if you have 345, Doc's in an
office, that doesn't matter, it'll be their image,
as well as the logo of your office or whatever you
want to do to make it real, feel really
comfortable to the patient. We know that
information and we can send that over. So it
allows us to get highly customized due to the
integration capabilities that we have with the
practice management systems in dentistry. The
third most important thing here is our
relationship with Google. We already talked about
it, Google runs the world. So we said, You know
what, why don't we just partner with you, and you
can help us out. So we have a relationship with
Google that allows us to have elevated review
privileges. So the reason why I would say our main
competitors in the premium space, they also do
have those relationships with Google. Now we
utilize that
Michael Dinsio: Go ahead. Can I can I? Can I dummy
this down for like, yeah, okay, folks like me?
Yeah. All right. So. So when you say elevated
privileges? Yeah. What the hell's that mean? Yep.
Creed Walker: So what that does for us, is it
essentially lets us do reduce friction in any
piece of the process. So when a patient gets the
text message on their phone, saying, Hey, thank
you so much for visiting ABC Dental. We absolutely
love reviews, whatever you want that message to
say. They click on the link, that link is powered
by swell own. Yeah, yep. Yeah. So you click on
that link. It's It's powered by swell and Google,
and it says it right there on there. They click on
the link, it auto logs them in to their Google
account, just via some credentialing as far as
their name and their phone number and their device
they're on. We know, their Google account. Google
allows us to do that. So it's auto logged in. And
then when they actually click their five stars,
click Post. There's no filtration after that.
Google says, hey, look, this is a trusted source
was swell. They are partners of ours. We know
them. We know that they're good. So then they
automatically post that review.
Michael Dinsio: I've noticed that when we get
reviews, it takes like three days sometimes that's
like what's happening. Yeah. Like, everybody's
like, Hey, I just gave you the best review. And
like, I don't, I don't see it. I believe you.
You're saying that. That's that stuff shows up
right away?
Creed Walker: You got it. Yeah. So Google does a
lot of filtration. So this is why things like QR
codes in an office can fail. Because if
everybody's logged into your and this is just one
example of this, if everybody's logged into the
same Wi Fi network, and then they're scanning a QR
code at the front desk, and clicking post on their
review. Google says, Wow, this is pretty weird. I
don't know why everybody's using the exact same Wi
Fi network, essentially, to post their review.
This could be fake. So it may start to flag all
these reviews and never actually post them. That's
why it's important. Those are all the little
things. That's just one example of it. Yeah, but
those are the little things of you know what we
need to make sure that they're that so we time
these so that they're at home when they get this
message, they're free. They click on the link and
then they click Post and there's no filtration
Google doesn't realistically they don't even care
what Wi Fi network you're on. They just know that
it came through a swell week. Yeah, Google Yeah.
And that allows it to just go straight on
Michael Dinsio: Alright, so So can you give me
examples of like non What did you say non What did
you say integrated not non? I don't know.
Creed Walker: It's gonna be like your your check
the box type solutions. So think of like your your
weaves and solution reaches and even your cloud
practice, man management systems, that kind of
stuff.
Michael Dinsio: And and the difference there is
that those companies send also links. Hey, please
review us. We'd appreciate it. Give us a five
star. Yeah. And then they click on that. And then
and then what? Like I know some of these do some
filtering. So if it's a shitty review that oh, we
don't want that one. But if it's a great one,
they'll send that one. That kind of thing. Right?
Well, what else? You got it? Yeah,
Creed Walker: yeah. So it really starts with the
actual invite itself. So with those systems,
generally, they're going to trigger and send out
immediately after the appointments marked as
completed. So if your checkout process at the
front office is marked, marked patient as
appointment completed as they're walking out the
door, which is the most likely scenario, now all
of a sudden, that patient gets a text message,
right when they got in the car, and they just turn
on their ignition, they're not going to leave your
review, right that like they're already on there,
they got to drive to where they're going. So the
timings horrible generally, second piece is
usually those messages are super canned. So
there's no images, it might be even coming from a
five digit shortcode. So you pull that up on your
phone, and it just looks very cold. It's not
inviting at all, it doesn't pull on their
heartstrings of I want to leave this business a
review.
Michael Dinsio: So it just you guys are mastering
that message is by you saying that, it means that
you guys are mastering that message. You have a
scientific process around what gets people to hit
yes, yeah.
Creed Walker: You got it? Yep. Yeah, we're just
doing a lot of little things to make this text as
familiar or this message as familiar as possible
to that patient, so that they actually feel love,
you know, they just left your office, they had a
good experience. It's a healthcare industry,
right. Dentistry is a is a caring, emotion,
emotionally filled thing for patients and the
office. So we want to make sure that our messaging
is very, is matching with that. And some of those
other solutions. They don't do that at all. It's
like, it's like T Mobile sending you an update to
your bill. And you're like, I'm not, I'm not
trying to click on this right now. Especially
because I'm about to go pick my kids up from
school. So that's where that's really that.
Michael Dinsio: I always thought like, hit them
while they're hot and emotional about it. You're
saying that's probably not a good, good strategy.
Give them a minute to get settled while they're
watching Netflix, at maybe whatever, seven kids
are in bed or something like that. I don't know
making this up right now. But you got it is a real
thing. All right. Got it. Yeah. That that's cool.
Um, I do know that there's a lot of software's and
if if my my team was on and asking questions, by
the way, I'm noticing that we got four viewers
today. Great. Thank you. If you've got questions,
just put it right in the comments. And I could I
can share it here. And we could, we could drill
Creed together. But now I'm joking. But like,
there's a lot of practice management software's
that basically have automation already. So yeah, a
lot of people and a lot of naysayers created would
say, hey, look like, we can just put the Google
review link in whatever XYZ software and then
we'll set up our automation the way we want and,
and then all of a sudden, now we don't need swell,
you're obviously you guys are doing really well.
And there's plenty of opportunity to do that. And
dental practices. Like what are the pitfalls of
you've kind of got into is kind of the last thing
that we're going to cover today. And like, what's
the pitfalls of doing it the way I just described
because there's plenty of software. Mango does
texting. Yeah, there's a ton of them. You said
we've leaves the phone company. What's, what's the
pitfalls there? Yeah,
Creed Walker: yeah. So really, and first I want to
start with this is reviews is too important a
thing to your office to be doing a half assed job.
I mean, it's just not you don't want to mess with
that. Because that's your main point of how people
are going to judge your office. So you got to do
it right, if you're going to do it at all. So use
utilizing another tool as like a band aid
solution. It's like, hey, look, I should probably
be getting more reviews. Yes, I could go try to
figure this out with weave and mango and whatever
other tool we want to do, which those are great
companies. I'm not saying they're not They're
fantastic at what they're good at. And they know
that they're not a reputation management company,
but they're gonna offer you automations. Because
it's other piece of their business that they need
it for.
Michael Dinsio: And it's not hard to do. It's not
hard to do either a Exactly, yeah,
Creed Walker: they've already built it, right. So
it's like, Hey, you look as an office, copy and
paste your Google business page in there and send
that out, you know, the issue is, they're not
going to go as far as actually timing those, those
review invites properly, due to the integrations,
that like I mentioned before, the templates
themselves, the actual message that hits the phone
is not going to be very kind and inviting. And
then the most probably the most important piece
here is when you click on a link like that, that's
just been copy and pasted. It's a less than
optimal experience. I mean, generally, that's
gonna drop you on a landing page, and then you're
gonna have to click another spot, and then you're
gonna have to log in, and then you leave your
review, what we find is about you lose 20% of
people with every click that you add there. Oh, it
was swells process. So think about like Amazon,
right? How much? Have they focused on their one
click solution. Like books, books have been
written about this. I mean, all kinds of stuff.
It's just, you don't want them to click more than
once. So that's really what swell is a
relationship.
Michael Dinsio: They have figured out how to just
dodge the shopping cart. Yeah, they've got the
shopping cart. But like, you could click this and
just Instant Pay, what the hell is instant. And
all of a sudden, you're taking something and just
like shit, I just bought a rubber duck for my dog.
He doesn't even like rubber ducks. Like, it's just
like what's happening? So to that, exactly, you
you get you auto logged in? Because you're right.
We're on the Google's business, suite. dealio.
Right. Yeah. Now, Alphabet crew owns next level
too. And I've noticed, like when I share folders
with people, they have to log in, in Gmail, and
it's like this thing. And then I get this email.
I'm like, Dude, how hard is it? But it's like,
once a week, someone's like, Well, can you just
send it to me through Dropbox or something? It's
just like, it's that's the perfect example of
like, if you guys are going right through that,
and get and landing there, I can totally see. It's
gotta be easy. It's gotta be easy.
Unknown: Yeah, yeah, we just make this as he's
think of Swell is just our magic, or the secret
sauce of Swell really boils down to, there's no
friction, there's no friction point in the
process, the office, they don't even have to care,
they don't have to do anything, we will do
everything for you as an office. And then on the
patient side, we make it so easy that they've left
a review before they even know what they just did.
I mean, it's like, they just slip their way right
through the process.
Michael Dinsio: And by the way, they don't even
have to say anything, they could just hit five
star hit go. And then now you got one.
Creed Walker: Exactly. Well, so that's really the
goal here.
Michael Dinsio: I can see this Creed because and
you know what, maybe I wouldn't. Maybe I wouldn't
be a believer, a believer, but I swear, every
startup, every acquisition, they're all trying to
cut costs. It's this new generation, and they
just, they just want to save two cents and
whatever. And I'm just gonna get my team to ask
and, and, and that's great. The QR codes in each
operatory. The dental assistants don't ask the
hygienist don't ask if they do. It's two people
you saw you saw 45 today like, like, man, if there
was a process that reduced friction, and it went
to 100% of the people. And you saw 40 people a day
or whatever. You don't have to rely on your team
to ask every single time because let's be honest,
the team only asks the easiest people. The the the
grand slams. Oh, Susie, she loves me. I'm gonna
get one from her. Like, you know, you mean and
that's the only one though. Out of the eight
people that they saw today, but the truth is, is
all 608 Probably would have gave you a 4.7 or
higher. Yeah. So absolutely. I've seen it explode.
I've seen it explode. So that's that's super cool.
Any any last minute kind of like tidbits tricks?
That 20% per click is a good one folks. Like every
click every process you're going to lose 20 20%
That makes sense. Yeah, about five clicks and then
you lose somebody totally right. So anything else
that you could leave us with? That that that might
be interesting to the audience.
Creed Walker: Yeah, so just I just want to touch
on one last thing as this is the the acquisition
unscrewed Did podcast is really, as you're looking
to buy a practice, these softwares are fairly new
review software's, and really Google relying so
heavily on that it's fairly new. And a lot of the
sellers right now in the market are older into
this, that maybe haven't done anything online. So
the cheapest way that you can build that brand
value immediately is through reviews. So he's
turned on swell, we're going to be your lowest
cost, highest ROI tool, you can turn on with them
in the marketing aspect of your office, and
immediately, you're going to start to see results
come out. There's really nothing else that's going
to produce like that pay per click ads get super
expensive. I mean, swell is just a flat fee, you
pay that fee, and we will make sure that you're
getting tons of reviews coming in.
Michael Dinsio: That's that's a really interesting
insight there, Creed, because there's a lot of
conversations about Goodwill transfer. Yeah,
they'll transfer right. So so folks in the
audience, you know, you buy something, and you're
right, the reputation of of the previous dentist
is important and you're trying to earn that
reputation. And imagine, imagine a world where,
you know, you get 2010 Even quick reviews and
you're inside your first week or two that that
that someone said, Oh, the new dentist is amazing.
Whatever. Now people are seeing that that's that's
a transfer of goodwill right there. So yep, to
shake. Good point. I love that. Well, I'm going to
be putting all the Creed's info down below in the
description. Create a view if you want to offer
anybody anything please provide me a custom link
of some sort if you want to give somebody some
discounts or whatever happy to happy to put that
down below. But yeah, folks reach out to Chris
he's a great resource. He's helped us quite a bit.
And I guess that concludes this program folks.
Check. Check out swell and Creed. All right.
Thanks, man. Yeah, of course did it we had a ton
of fun and let's get let's catch up soon.
Creed Walker: Yeah, absolutely.
Michael Dinsio: See you later.
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