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A lighthearted reading of Marcus Aurelius' Meditations. Join us as we read his private journal from 2,000 years ago and talk about how it makes us feel.
Speaker: All righty, Mr.
Tom.
Good evening.
Speaker 2: Good evening.
Yes, our podcast listeners, it is evening.
This is an unusual thing for our podcast,
but it's something we're doing for
the next couple weeks because Paul is
still in Hawaii for a couple weeks.
Yeah.
And we decided.
That it was just too much to make him
wake up at four in the morning to record
this before our West coast workday.
Yeah.
So we are doing some, I really appreciate
Speaker: that.
Thank you.
Yeah,
Speaker 2: no, totally.
I think it's the for the good of the
show and your health and all that.
I think it's the right decision for
sure to not make you get up super
early, even though you were very
heroic about it for several months.
Speaker 3: Thank you.
Speaker 2: So Yes.
Instead we were doing a That's good.
A post-work.
Yeah.
Five 5:30 PM here on the West Coast.
Yeah.
Record.
Speaker: Yeah.
Yep.
Yep.
Both of us were just before the
recording started, we were just
talking about how after work,
like right after work is not Yes.
Our.
Our most carefree time or whatever.
We're
Speaker 2: crabby.
Yes.
Yeah.
We're both like a
Speaker: little bit crabby.
This
Speaker 2: is, yes.
Both of our bio rhythms are much
more pep, peppy and optimistic
first thing in the morning.
Yeah.
And this is when we're
a little low energy.
Yeah.
Maybe, yeah.
Maybe time after this for a
drink and dinner or whatever.
Yeah.
Yes, we're let's see.
What that, what flavor that imparts, yeah.
Speaker: Usually right after our reaction
work, I do some kind of exercise and yeah.
So there because I need
something mindless.
Speaker 2: Does blow some st steam off.
Yeah.
Blow some steam off.
Speaker: Yeah.
Yes,
Speaker 2: totally.
Yes.
That's something I've realized over the
past couple months working from home
actually too, is that one thing I like
about going into office is I walk to
the off to and from the office and just
having that mental transition time from
I'm in work mode to I'm in home mode.
Yeah.
Is.
A big deal, a sneaky benefit that
I think people don't quite realize.
Yeah.
To working in an office.
Yeah.
So yes, I think we are both having just
literally just finished work and then
hopped on this call, maybe still in the
transition mode between thinking about
our jobs and thinking about Marcus.
So
Speaker 3: let's do it.
Speaker 2: Here's a nice test of
whether or not this book really
works as medicine or whatever.
Can you, if we dive in, can it, take
us away from those crabby thoughts.
And okay, great.
Yeah.
The listeners of our last episode will
remember that we left on a cliffhangery
kind of thing where we Oh yeah, we're
thinking about reading one more entry and
then we eyeballed it and said, oh God, no.
We're gonna put this off until next time.
So we are starting with something
quite difficult with a lot of
names of people who we don't know
who they are, and I'm gonna have
to try to pronounce all of them.
Good luck, Tom.
But here we go.
Number 25.
Veris leaving Illa behind.
Then Illa Maximus leaving
Secunda and Secunda.
Dimus leaving epi ca e Oh boy,
Speaker: come on Tom.
A
Speaker 2: pit and Canus a pit
and canus is what I'm gonna go pit
Speaker: Canus, obviously
Speaker 2: then a pit and Canus.
Fina leaving Antoninus.
Then Antoninus.
So with all of them, Hadian leaving
Sale and Sale, I'm totally guessing
on these pronun pronunciations.
Speaker: I'm not laughing at the,
Speaker 2: yeah.
Okay.
Where have they gone?
The brilliant, the insightful ones.
The Proud Brilliance is brilliant
as Rex and Demetrius, the PLAs
and Emon and the rest of them
short lived creatures, long Dead.
Some of them not remembered at all.
Some become legends,
some lost even to legend.
So remember.
Your components will be scattered
to the life within you, quenched or
marching orders, and another posting.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker 2: Okay.
So all those people he listed
at the beginning, am I, are you
inferring the same thing that I am?
That they're couples?
I
Speaker: think so.
Of some
Speaker 2: kind.
Yeah, I think so.
So the point is by leaving them
behind, it means that one, a member
of the couple died first, and then
yeah, he repeats the second couple.
Member's name to say they died as well.
I
Speaker: think that's right.
It took, it wasn't until the, like
the last paragraph that I understood
that I thought it was divorce.
I also thought this because,
Romans were all about divorce.
They love that.
Speaker 2: I, that was my, yes.
I think when we read, leaving, yeah.
Spouse name behind.
Yeah.
That's the easiest parts.
But yes, I think it's death.
This would be weird if it was about,
it would be interesting, I guess where
have they gone after their divorces?
Speaker: Yeah, exactly.
Yeah.
Short-lived creatures yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
I think it's clearly about their Yes.
Their deaths.
Are there any names in that
list that you recognize?
Speaker: Yeah, so Hadrian is the
Emperor, like right before I see.
Marcus, I believe.
Okay.
And he built the big
wall in, in, in England.
Oh, okay.
And then Maximus.
Maximus sounds I don't
know, sounds like a guy
Speaker 2: from Gladiator.
It
Speaker: just sounds like Gladiator.
Yes, exactly.
Yes.
So here's the thing.
Here's the thing, like all the
names we have for Empire Emperors,
for the most part, are like, yeah.
Not the names that were used at the time.
Oh,
Speaker 2: I didn't know this.
Yeah,
Speaker: like for what?
Because I don't know.
I, for, I forget the reason.
It's every, okay.
Basically they were all called
Speaker 2: Caesar.
Speaker: They were all called Caesar,
but they were all, even beyond
that, they all had the same names.
They were like all anus.
They all had five word names and all five.
They were just like
scrambling of the same words.
Five
Speaker 2: words
Speaker: I say.
Yeah.
Oh, wow.
And they were all Augustus Anus
Maximus, Veris, and then the
next guy would be Barris Maximus.
Sanus.
Augustus.
Speaker 2: Okay.
Got it.
Interesting.
Okay.
And so then they have nicknames or
something that give them, so historians
Speaker: have done us the huge solid of
just picking a thing that I see speak.
Yeah.
Speaker 2: Okay.
But they did leave us with the
problem of which one is Maximus?
If he's, if Maxus exactly.
Name is in all of them.
Speaker: Yeah.
So we don't, so someone would
have to be really deep in the
history, I think to I see.
Tell us what to know, which
Maximus we're talking about here.
Yeah.
Who Marcus is referring to here.
I don't know.
Okay.
Yeah.
Speaker 2: Fine.
Fine.
Speaker 4: Okay.
Speaker 2: One other thing that I left
me p slightly puzzled about this one.
Yeah.
Is that last fragment of the sentence?
I agree.
I was just looking.
So everything seems pretty regular here.
Speaker 3: Yep.
Speaker 2: Your parts will
be scattered, et cetera.
Speaker 3: Yep.
Speaker 2: The life within you quenched
or marching orders and another posting,
I guess he's, that's reincarnation you
think that he's talking about there.
Speaker: Do they have that?
I didn't think that, I thought
they were like crossing the
river and then going to hell.
Since when are they Buddhists?
Speaker 2: They don't, do they have ISTs?
Yes, exactly.
Yes.
Do they have heaven.
Is there a concept of
that in Roman mythology?
Speaker: I think so.
You go to Mount Olympus?
No, that's, that might be, that's
Speaker 2: where the gods live.
Speaker: That's where the gods live.
I forget if they have had it.
Okay.
Okay.
We're not gonna look up anything,
Speaker 2: Yes, no, that's the rule.
Yeah, that's the rule.
We already didn't look up all these names.
But it's weird.
Speaker: So he's saying, so remember,
your components will be scattered too.
This is like the classic,
probably the MO thing, the
concept he's reiterated the most.
Yes.
You're gonna die
Speaker 2: Right and be forgotten.
Speaker: Yeah.
Or marching orders and another post.
Speaker 2: Yes.
I, it feels like he is.
Yes.
I wonder.
It's like he's it's like he has a stutter
and he said this thing 10 different times.
Yeah.
And now the 11th time he
could finally get out.
Wait a minute.
There's actually another idea that, that
comes at the end of this, which is right.
Maybe not.
Maybe I think, I guess I'm
interpreting the or here as being
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Boy.
Yeah.
Really undercuts the whole thing though.
'cause he is really saying
this, it's really, I read it.
Read it as.
Maybe your components won't be
scattered or the life of Exactly.
Yeah.
There is another possibility.
Speaker: Short lived creatures, long
dead, some of them not remembered at all.
Or marching orders and another
posting like I can't read this in
any way other than reincarnation.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Okay.
I'm going with that.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yep.
Interesting.
All right.
He's open to some reincarnation concepts.
Does that, that, that's
not sitting with you
Speaker: yeah, I was
not aware that Romans,
Speaker 2: yeah.
Yeah.
It's not something that we've heard him.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Or or put differently.
He seems at least very historically,
very agnostic towards even if you
were reincarnated, it's, I feel
like his brand would be, who cares?
That's not you.
Like it's, you can't worry
about your reincarnated self.
Speaker: The O.
I agree.
The only other interpretation that I can
see is, so he's saying, so remember live.
Live in the way that you
remember that you're gonna die.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker: Or
Speaker 2: just, oh, follow
Speaker: your marching orders.
Go to your next posting.
Just worry about what's in front of you.
Stop worrying about your legacy.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
It's a stretch, but no, I that actually.
Speaker: Yeah, the then you quenched.
Speaker 2: Or marching
orders and another posting.
Speaker: So I guess it's like
it's one, it's, you can either
remember or you can marching
orders and go to your next posting.
Speaker 2: Is the implication there
then that if you did remember these
things and really bear them in mind,
you wouldn't go along with your
marching orders and next posting maybe.
Is that
Speaker: Yeah.
Or just, yeah, that's funky.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Yes.
Or he's, yes, he's implying that soldiers
don't do this, don't realize this.
Speaker: Or just there's two ways
to reach this place of peace.
Speaker 2: And
Speaker: either one is fine.
You can either, that's
Speaker 2: interesting.
Speaker: Constantly remind yourself
that you're gonna die or you
can just live in the present.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Okay.
So in that way you almost wonder if he's.
I almost wonder if he is wishing
for marching at like he doesn't get
marching orders in another post.
You see what I mean?
Speaker: Oh, he's saying my
job is, I have to constantly
Speaker 2: Yes.
Speaker: Remind myself that I'm gonna
die, but it'd be so much easier if
I just had some marching orders.
Yeah.
Yes.
Speaker 2: All right.
We're G, we're meeting the text
more than halfway, I think in
giving it that interpretation.
Yeah, but that's an interesting
idea that it's not something he's
articulated much is that explicitly
is oh, what a burden it is to be me.
Speaker: I like that.
I want more of That's, I was just
complaining to Tom before the
podcast started about how incredible
it is to just this idea that as
an employee, you can just leave.
You can just be like, I'm out.
Like I don't like two weeks.
My last day is, yeah, two weeks by the
way, but I'm barely gonna do anything.
And good luck.
Speaker 3: Yes.
Speaker: That's such a privilege.
That's crazy.
Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Yeah.
Speaker: It's like part of the contract.
It's part of yes.
I was
Speaker 2: just thinking that's,
some, there are professions
where it doesn't work that way.
Yeah.
Because you sign a contract
saying, no, I'm gonna do this
job for X years or whatever.
Speaker: It's the white collar contract.
I guess if you're like a teacher,
Speaker 2: you
Speaker: you can, I'm trying to think
of what's a job where you couldn't,
Speaker 2: The answer
is professional athlete.
Oh, even then you can quit.
Speaker: Yeah.
It's just
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah, you're right.
You could quit.
No, that's fair.
But professional athlete
maybe is an example.
Like you could quit, but it
would be like bad if you did.
Yes.
Speaker 2: You can't just go get the
same job again under those circumstances.
Speaker: Yeah, exactly.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Okay.
Speaker 2: Yes.
Anyway, so yes.
Paul.
Paul is sympathizing within.
Yes.
Yes.
Me and Marcus.
Oh, woe is me and Marcus.
Yes.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Okay.
Number 26.
Joy for humans lies in human actions.
Human actions, kindness to others,
contempt for the senses, the interrogation
of appearances, observation of
nature, and of events in nature.
Speaker 4: This is great.
Speaker 2: I, this feels
like a rough draft to me.
Speaker: Oh he's, I like that he
is like seeking joy for humans.
I like this.
Okay.
It is.
Yes.
Crap though.
Okay, so happiness is in.
Is an ax where axes kindness.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
So we find joy in doing the things
that define I interpret this as being
like, be, our meaning of be to be here
is to do the things that humans do.
Like what are those, what
are, but what are those key
human right things that we do.
First of all, okay.
Speaker 3: Being kind.
Speaker 2: I disagree
that these are actions.
Kindness.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Okay.
Anyway.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Okay.
Kindness
Speaker 2: to others.
Lovely.
Love that.
That's the first thing
on your list, Marcus.
That's great.
Yeah.
Contempt for the senses
Speaker: that one doesn't I.
Speaker 2: I think what he
means by that is like not
getting tricked by your senses.
Yeah,
Speaker: I think so.
But it's just like putting
Speaker 2: the appropriate Yes.
But the, to have this
be second on your list.
Yeah.
Speaker: I hate taste, like Yes,
Speaker 2: exactly.
It sounds very strange, but yeah.
Yeah.
It's so odd with that topic
sentence too, because for like human
actions on some level to me means.
Doing the things like the sensory
experiences that human humans enjoy.
Totally.
Eating.
Totally.
Like beauty, sex, whatever.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah, I agree To have contemp, to have
contempt for the census, being number
two on this list is bizarre to me.
Speaker: Yeah.
I would, the inverse of that would've
made so much more sense to me.
Speaker 2: Yes.
Totally.
Do Celebration of the senses.
Yeah.
Yes.
Speaker: Eat stuff, eat
tasty stuff like Yeah.
I'd be like, yep.
Makes sense.
Speaker 2: Yes, I agree.
Wouldn't bad my at that
contempt for the census as well.
This, I guess this is what
we come to Marcus for.
Yeah.
It's, if it was celebration of the
census, I could have written this.
I.
I'm not writing contention the census.
Speaker: That's right, Tom.
Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
The interrogation of appearances
is we have now, like Rocketship
shipped up the Maslow's hierarchy
thing to like his favorite thing
to do, which is philosophize.
Speaker 3: Okay.
Speaker 2: Like he, yes, like figure
getting at the truth, which is.
He thinks is a universal human.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Source of enjoyment.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Everyone loves,
Speaker 2: it's an interesting theory.
Yeah.
That we all love to get to the bottom of
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: The truth beyond
what, just what it appears.
I don't know that I
agree that's universal.
Speaker 3: I agree.
Speaker 2: And then this last one
is what made me think rough draft.
Observation of nature
and of events in nature.
What is the difference
between those people?
Just say observation of nature.
Speaker: Oh, Tom.
No, it's really different though.
Yeah, no, he has a very I swear there's
somewhere in somewhere behind all this,
there's this like incredibly complex
mind map of what he means by nature.
Yeah.
And we still don't know.
Yeah, it could be.
'cause it's clearly different
than the events in nature.
It's yeah.
Yeah, that's true.
Okay.
Some source you're right.
Some hide mind.
Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yes.
Okay.
So yes.
Observation of nature.
Speaker: Somehow it would be very
incorrect for him to say of nature
and events or something like that.
That would be insane.
He had to write Yes.
Every single one of those words.
Yes.
Okay.
Speaker 2: Yes.
The he has a, he has in mind
some method of observing nature.
Yeah.
Independent of the events
that are taking place.
Speaker: I'm gonna, I, yeah.
I don't think
Speaker 2: you're def
defend, you're defendant.
Yeah.
Okay.
Speaker: Yeah.
I think he's writing a journal later on.
Yes,
Speaker 2: I know.
Yes.
We're being jerks.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker 2: Did he leave
anything out on this list?
Speaker: No, this is it.
Speaker 2: We already Okay.
Are you sure?
Speaker: All right.
What's one thing you would add, Tom?
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Joy for humans ju lies in human actions.
I guess.
One thing this ignores is that, that
I think we get joy in a bidirectional
way from our relationships.
Yeah.
Not a one directional,
that's where my head
Speaker: went too.
Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Kindness to others, but
also kindness from others.
Of course.
Speaker: Yeah.
But that's very non stoic.
'cause you're not supposed to
rely on things you can't control.
Notice how every single one of these
things are things you can control.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Okay.
Okay.
Nice.
True.
Speaker: I would almost, I was
gonna add like love of my enemies or
something, or like empathy for my foes.
That's where joy for human life.
Is that so
Speaker 2: different
from kindness to others?
Nah,
Speaker: it's the same.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
The other thing I was thinking
about he, that he might have is
some sort of appreciation of the
divine or something like that.
Like cultivating,
Speaker: yeah.
That's true.
Higher, higher power, meaning, yeah.
Yeah, that's true actually.
Joy for humans lies in the
grandness of the world or something.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Maybe that's some combination of the last.
Observation, nature,
observation of nature.
Speaker: We only knew what nature meant.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Yeah.
I guess so.
This one is lowercase and nature.
I guess I should point out to the readers
what we are sometimes dealing with.
Capital and nature.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Good luck.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Okay.
Honestly, you know what, yeah, we're nice.
I'm being Yeah.
Sassy by calling.
I got a rough draft, but I'm
struggling as if we're sticking to
stoic rules and it has to be Right.
Only stuff you can control.
It's actually hard to come
up with something that's
he's definitely missing X.
Speaker: Yeah.
Maybe, the foam on a boar's mouth alone.
Yeah.
Speaker 2: That's observation.
I guess that's nature.
I guess that's,
Speaker: dang it.
He thought of everything, Tom.
Yeah.
Speaker 2: Okay.
Nevermind.
Yes, it's perfect.
I'm humbled.
Okay.
27, 3 relationships.
One with the body you inhabit.
Two with the divine, the cause
of everything in all things.
Three, with the people around you.
That's it.
It's just a list.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker 2: But I think we're
meant to understand that this list
is exhaustive in terms of Yeah.
What matters
Speaker: Mey.
Yeah.
Okay.
Is it exhaustive, Tom?
Speaker 2: All right.
I can get pedantic again.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker 2: One is like a
relationship with your body.
I.
Feels like it's also missing out.
Like we in the modern day have it mind.
Yeah, exactly.
We have the concept of a
relationship with yourself.
Which isn't totally present here.
Speaker: That's true.
Yeah.
Sure.
Yeah.
Like relationship with your
like identity or something.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Spirit.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Spirit.
Speaker: He does have the concept
of spirit and he thinks about that.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Speaker 2: Guess maybe.
Okay.
Maybe his spirit is getting
captured by the divine.
Yeah.
That's the divine in you.
Speaker: The cause of
everything in all things.
It's hard to argue with that one.
Yeah.
Speaker 2: And
Speaker: with the people around you.
Speaker 2: Okay, this is nice.
So
Speaker: stick away.
Yeah.
It's like I, I
Speaker 2: actually kinda like it.
It's,
Speaker: you have just a, you have
three relationships to maintain, right?
That's it.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
That's it.
And I.
The other thing that I think
hap is happening implicitly
here is that he's saying they're
all about equally important,
Speaker 4: right?
Speaker 2: One of, none of these
are that much better than the other.
Speaker: As a modern reader, I don't know
what to do with the middle one or as a
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker: Agnostic reader.
Yeah.
The body inhabit, I guess it's
maybe the way I would phrase that
is just like the world, like with.
Just the fact that you,
things you can't control.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker: Okay.
Yes.
What is this like what question do
you have to ask to get this answer?
This
Speaker 2: is just what,
yeah, that's a fair thing.
I feel like it's the question of
you are a consciousness that's
been dropped in the universe.
What are the important things
you're gonna interact with, right?
As this human consciousness?
And he's saying basically
it's these three things.
Speaker: Yeah I guess it
gives a sense of scope.
It's oh yeah, whatever.
Someone didn't, you know you got fired.
It's okay.
You have three relationships
that you need to care about.
Yeah.
Your own body, the divine and
folks around you, were any of those
really hurt by you getting fired?
No.
Not really.
Speaker 2: Exactly.
Okay.
And the world is not
infinitely complex to him.
It's actually pretty simple.
This is a way of saying oh man, there
might, it might feel like you have
Speaker 4: right?
A
Speaker 2: lot of balls in
the air at any given time.
Actually, here's a very simple set
of consequences to, or whatever
relationships to, to monitor.
Speaker: Yeah.
I like that.
Okay.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So like we, we are feeling grumpy
about work stuff, and so just
keep in mind there's really
only three things that matter.
Speaker 2: Although they're
all they're all pretty big.
Speaker: It just, I guess it, what it
does is create a sense of perspective.
It's maybe that's the value.
Because that is the point.
They're huge.
And so who cares that, ENG
is ignoring your ML requests,
Speaker 2: right?
Yes.
Exactly.
Yep.
No I guess I like this one.
I this works for me.
Yeah.
As just like a
Speaker: nice,
Speaker 2: simple explanation of
Speaker: life.
Yeah.
Too long to be a fridge magnet, but yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Not quite, maybe insp.
Yeah.
Maybe it's inspirational enough.
28.
Either pain affects the body.
Which is the body's problem,
or it affects the soul.
Oh.
But the soul can choose not to
be affected preserving its own
serenity, its own tranquility.
All our decisions, urges,
desires, aversions, lie within.
No evil can touch them.
Speaker: Yeah.
This is the old like
Speaker 2: very stoic up.
Stoic.
Stoic in the literal sense.
Very stoic in the classic sense.
Yeah,
Speaker: exactly.
I love the, which is the body's problem.
It's yes, it's your problem too.
Yes.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
That's something worth
remembering, about this philosophy.
Yeah.
Is like we, I think, have moved more
and more in the modern era towards this
concept that the body and the mind and
the spirit are the, all these deeply,
at least deeply entangled things.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: And he's really
likes this concept of no.
They are.
N not just different, but
like totally separate.
Speaker: It's good for being
like in war where your body
parts are getting cut off, so
Speaker 2: yeah.
Speaker: Okay.
Right
Speaker 2: and yes.
Okay.
It's inspirational.
If you're looking at as Hey, your
body is going to, you're like,
some body pain is inevitable.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: You.
What you have is the choice of what to do.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Yeah.
Speaker 2: With it.
And he's saying, no, no need to
make evil choices to do bad things.
Yeah.
You can just let the body
pain be the body's pain.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Okay.
Speaker: Yeah.
And then he reminds us that, we
can preserve our own serenity, our
own tranquility, our decisions,
our like urges, desires.
No evil can touch them.
Yeah.
Evil can definitely touch them,
but I guess you're supposed to
aspire to being this walled garden.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Yeah.
That I like, thank you for
pointing out that metaphor.
Yes, that does, he does seem to be
doing this metaphor where it's like
your body is the armor for your soul.
And like all the sources of
evil, the things that would
make you do bad stuff come from.
Exterior to your body.
And so the body takes the damage, but you
could just let it be the body's damage.
And I think what he's saying is since
your decisions, urges, desires of versions
lie within the armor, if you're, if you
Speaker 4: right,
Speaker 2: keep that separation,
then they're protected.
Speaker: Yeah.
It's not, it can be inspiring.
If it's, okay, so you, yeah,
I guess you lost a leg and.
You can no longer work and or
be, you're not very employable.
And so it's listen, the body, that's
the body's problem losing a leg, right?
But you can still control
your soul and yeah.
You can still be a good person, right?
Do the right thing.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Speaker 2: I dig it.
Number 29.
To erase false perceptions.
Tell yourself.
I have it in me to keep my soul from evil,
lust, and all confusion to see things as
they are and treat them as they deserve.
Don't overlook this innate ability I.
Very similar thematically to, to
our last entry, I think, although
the lust aspect of this is the part
that catches my eye as the reader.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 2: He's to
erase false perceptions.
Yeah.
Tell yourself so he's dealing
with some false perceptions.
Yeah.
Where he needs to tame his lust.
Speaker 3: That's spicy.
That's nice.
Yeah.
Speaker 2: I,
Speaker: wait the sense that's still
catching me off guard is to see things as
they are and treat them as they Oh, okay.
Nevermind.
That makes sense.
Yep.
Yes, don't overlook Ur innate
ability to, see the truth.
Yes, exactly.
To Okay.
Speaker 2: That's how I read that.
Speaker: Yeah.
Okay.
Yeah, mostly you're right.
So the fun part here is
that he's experiencing loss,
Speaker 2: That's the result or that.
And there's there's a false perce,
there's a false perception involved too.
So
Speaker: a false perception that
this other person is somehow
like better than else interested
Speaker 2: in you or that.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I say,
Speaker 3: all right.
Speaker 2: It's a little
unusual for Marcus, I feel like.
Yeah.
Yes.
Speaker 3: Okay.
Speaker 2: There it's interesting
advice too, I guess it's, yeah there's
distance between Marcus and me here
where I don't have the instinct to even
ask this question to begin with, where
my life is going on and or his life is
going on and he's I need to erase all
these false perceptions I'm having.
That is not really, I don't know.
Does that feel like.
Something that happens for you because
Speaker: No.
'cause you're right.
It's there's already a leap of
faith that's been done, right?
So it's
You start at, Hey, I feel lust.
I don't want to feel lust.
But he's jumping to not
just, I feel lust, but it's.
Lust caused by false per, yes.
Speaker 2: I'm feeling lut and I've
already deduced that must be the
result of a false perception or
Speaker: perception be.
Yes.
It's almost like defacto.
It's if I lust, therefore it
must, it couldn't possibly be
because it's like a natural Right.
Thing to feel Right.
And so yeah, I think that's
how he's looking at it.
Like any kind of confusion.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker: Is not natural, is a
Speaker 2: false, is the
result of a false perception.
Speaker: Yeah.
It's a result of a false perception.
Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker: It's very kind of white
knight and shining armor type of yes.
My thinking is pristine.
Speaker 2: Yes.
Where humans, yes, he's, it really
speaks to what an optimistic
is in human rationality.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Seriously.
Yeah.
Speaker 2: It's just yes, all you
need to do, and it's like he's, it's,
there's a funny almost self-fulfilling
prophecy here or something where he's,
the advice is in order to get out of
any errors in logic and see the world
clearly, just remind yourself that
you're capable of not committing any
errors and seeing the world very clearly.
Yeah, exactly.
And then you'll be done.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Which is, yeah
Speaker: it's very kind
of circular in that way.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker 2: What's frustrating is I think.
We're clowning on him a little bit, but
he's also I think there is some truth
to what he's saying about, it's easy
to have the reaction of, oh wow, the
world is complicated and scary and I
don't know if I could see through this.
And he's saying, eh, just calm down.
Like you can, yeah.
Yeah.
You're capable of this.
Remind yourself that you are capable
of that and yeah, you, the result is
that you become more capable of it.
Speaker: This does tie back to 8 26, the
one where he explains how to have joy.
And this is this is a way to have
joy to erase false perceptions.
Is joy for humans in Marcus's eye.
And so now he's tying the same way to get
joy, which is to see the truth is also the
way to avoid evil, lust and all confusion.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker: Which.
I think it's probably right.
Yes.
Like that makes sense.
Like it, so he believes that
all of these terrible things
call come from misunderstanding.
Yeah.
And so you just need to just be a human
who has, a backbone or something and
Speaker 2: Yes.
And really relies on your
ability to see things clearly.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yes.
I do think this is where.
It's like an articulation of
what he means by contempt for
the senses a little bit too.
Speaker: Yeah, that's true.
Yeah, exactly.
False perceptions.
Yeah.
Marcus' whole thing.
It's he's he's trying to explain that.
Okay.
You're walking around and you
actually have a super powered laser
pistol or something and just use it.
Use it.
Yes.
Like it's your That's right.
It's your reason And use it everywhere.
Yeah.
Yes.
Speaker 2: Your only mistake
is that we for some reason
Speaker: keep forgetting
to use the pistol.
Yes.
Two
Speaker 2: bumbling to
really use this thing.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Fair enough.
Speaker 2: Okay.
Number 30.
To speak to the Senate or anyone?
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: In the right tone without being
overbearing to choose the right words.
Speaker: Yeah.
Not a sentence.
What?
Yeah.
He's saying that is the way
to erase false perceptions.
Is it related to, oh, previous entry
Speaker 2: or when he does these just
Speaker: yeah.
Speaker 2: Sentence fragments thing.
I think he's often, to me, he's just
being like, this is a good thing to do.
Speaker: This is good.
Yeah.
Yes, that's right.
Yeah.
Okay.
Yeah,
Speaker 2: I'm most interested in
to speak to the Senate or anyone.
Speaker: Yeah.
He's always his whole thing is the Senate
is the same as talking to your dog.
Speaker 2: Yes.
But here it feels almost intent,
like rhetorically intentional
to me to be like, yeah.
He is saying, obviously it's a good
idea to, to speak well to the Senate.
Yeah.
But apply that same logic
to speaking to anyone.
Yeah.
Without being overbearing.
Speaker 3: That's nice.
Speaker 2: I bet he, I bet
this is a real problem for him.
Like this one feels like this.
This must be a challenge for him.
Yeah.
To assume the right tone and not be
overbearing and choosing the right words.
Yeah.
I, yes it's nice I guess that he has
this much self-awareness to be, because
I'm sure he's gotten this feedback.
Speaker: Yeah.
This is the hint at who
Marcus actually is, right?
Yes, exactly.
Which is a hothead it sounds like.
Speaker 2: Yes.
Or very pedantic.
And condescending is
what I Oh, yeah, sure.
That's true.
Yeah.
That's how I'm interpreting it.
That's
Speaker: true.
Marcus is constantly pointing
out people's grammar mistake.
Like he, you're missing Oxford
commas, and he's on top of that.
Exactly.
Yeah.
Yes,
Speaker 2: that's right.
You're right.
Yeah.
Yes.
You're calling him me?
Yeah, that's fine.
Speaker: I never said that.
You said that.
Yeah, Uhhuh.
Sure.
Okay.
Last one.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Number 31 Augustus's Court.
His wife, his daughter, his grandsons,
his stepsons, his sister Agrippa,
the relatives, servants friends.
S Masons, the doctors, the
s, the sacrificial priests.
The whole court dead.
Speaker: Okay, got it.
Yeah, we're back to this.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
So yeah, remember entries like this
and consider the others.
Not just the deaths of individuals
like the family of the pompei.
That line, they write on tombs,
last, surviving descendant.
Consider their ancestors' anxiety
that there has to be a successor,
but someone has to be the last
They are too.
The death of a whole house.
Speaker: Okay, so high level, as
everyone dies, this is what he,
this is the work he has to do.
'cause no one is, gives him any orders.
Speaker 2: Yes.
Speaker: So that's right.
That makes sense.
So
Speaker 2: yes.
And he's got some fun, like
mathematical inductive intuition
here where there's this thing you
could prove from a probability
perspective that if you have a lineage,
Speaker 3: yeah.
Speaker 2: The thing you can actually
prove, I believe, is that the world
will either, either your lineage will
go extinct or eventually everyone in
the world will be your descendant under
reasonable assumptions about mixing.
The, those are the two possibilities.
He's not really entertaining the
possibility here that you might.
Be so lucky as to have everyone in
the world become your descendant.
Speaker 4: Ah, good.
Tom.
Although
Speaker 2: that is, there are people
for whom that is probably true.
Yeah.
If you go far enough
back, it's certainly true.
Yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Wow.
But he's got some nice he's halfway there.
Speaker: Wow.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker: So he really is obsessed
with legacy and descendant.
I think this is cultural.
I think it's hard for us to
understand because maybe, yeah.
We just, we have less of that emphasis.
Like I think they really, Romans
really cared about legacy.
Yeah.
And ancestral descendancy.
So yeah.
But there's, someone has to be last.
Speaker 2: That one has to be last.
Speaker: Someone has to be last is
his argument, which is only true.
Unless you're Yeah,
Speaker 2: yeah.
Depends on what
Speaker: timeframe and Yeah.
Speaker 2: It's interesting.
Like the thing that, that feels
like it's in conversation with,
in the modern day to me Yeah.
Is couples or people who
choose not to have children.
That he's anticipating them
or something and saying, yeah.
Actually,
Speaker 3: yeah.
Speaker 2: This whole Yes.
Your whole moral anxiety about Yeah.
Oh no, we have to propagate
our lineage or whatever.
Yeah.
It's silly because someone,
it's perfectly correct.
Be to just, yeah, it's, yes.
You might choose not to be the last,
but that's not be some guarantee
that there will be no last.
In fact, the opposite is guaranteed.
Speaker: Okay so he's
going a step further.
So he's talking about
how everyone's gonna die.
But then he is like, how
can I go even further?
Oh, your lineage will also die.
Speaker 2: Yes.
Yeah, exactly.
Yes.
Yes.
Speaker: Great.
Thanks Marcus.
Marcus.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Yes.
Yep.
That's that.
That's a nice in encapsulation of it.
Speaker: Yeah, I think, yeah.
And consider the others, not just
the death of individuals, but you're
in the death of your entire line.
Speaker 2: Like the family of the
Pompe, which I, yeah, I assuming
that just is a familial line.
Yeah.
I don't, I assume that's not related
to the volcanic explosion at Pompe.
I thought, yeah, maybe I went
there, but it's spelled a
little bit differently here.
I don't think people usually spell that.
P-O-M-P-E-Y.
And with the Pompe, I
Speaker: think it's a pretty common name.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Okay.
So he is just picked?
Yeah.
Okay.
Speaker: Just someone he knows.
Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yes.
Yeah.
Speaker: Okay.
That's a nice cheery note.
Thank you, Marcus.
Yes.
Speaker 2: Okay, I enjoyed engaging
with Marcus here, even Me too.
After work.
I don't know that it totally reset
our moods or anything like that,
but still a good habit, I think.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Speaker: Thanks, Tom.
I'll I'll see you next week.
Speaker 2: All right.
Later.