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If you are seeking new ways to increase your ROI on marketing with your commerce platform, or you may be an entrepreneur who wants to grow your team and be more efficient with your online business.
Talk Commerce with Brent W. Peterson draws stories from merchants, marketers, and entrepreneurs who share their experiences in the trenches to help you learn what works and what may not in your business.
Keep up with the current news on commerce platforms, marketing trends, and what is new in the entrepreneurial world. Episodes drop every Tuesday with the occasional bonus episodes.
You can check out our daily blog post and signup for our newsletter here https://talk-commerce.com
Brent (00:01.836)
Welcome to this episode of Talk Commerce. Today I have Elizabeth Greene. She is the co-founder of Junglr. Elizabeth, go ahead, do an introduction for yourself. Tell us your day-to-day role and one of your passions.
Elizabeth Greene (00:14.062)
Yeah, I'll try and keep it short and sweet. I would say definitely I work within my operational past and so we help brands who are looking to scale on the Amazon platform, specifically through leveraging ads to do so we've been doing it for about six or seven years at this point. So that's definitely I lucked out in terms of what I do. I definitely found a passion for this. I'd like to say I fell into it and I fell in love with it.
In terms of day to day life, goodness, it really depends on the day. So for context, I have six kids, we homeschool. There's a lot of fluidity in my life, a lot of in between calls, going in, getting a hug, coming back on, hopping on to another call. So it's a lot of moving busy things, which I enjoy, keeps life fun. In terms of passions, I'll be honest, I'm a little boring. I'm not one of those who like, I love to travel everywhere. I find new places interesting, but I'm kind of like...
notorious her hermit and homebody. So I would say in terms of the things that I really enjoy, probably just enjoying the kids. And then I have recently gotten into exercise recently as in I've been doing it for about a year. So I do enjoy going working out. Along with my husband, I get to go with him in the morning. So that's always fun.
Brent (01:32.692)
Alright, any marathons planned?
Elizabeth Greene (01:35.858)
know, okay, so I have a family of runners like my brother and his wife, they're adorable. They have their two little kids and they like going marathons and they're jogging shoulders. I just like I never have enjoyed running like for whatever reason like my whole family like they love it and I'm just like, I'll just lift weights. I like lifting weights.
Brent (01:56.142)
That's perfectly all right. All right, Elizabeth, before we get started, we'll talk a little bit about Amazon ads today. I'm going to tell you a joke. All you have to do is give me a rating 8 through 13. So here we go. Did you hear about the sensitive burglar? He takes things personally.
Elizabeth Greene (02:15.818)
I'm gonna have to tell that to my kids. They love puns. I would probably rate that at like an 11.
Brent (02:23.732)
All right, perfect. Thank you very much. All right, so tell us a little bit about, well, maybe just to kind of give people an idea, I'm sure most people understand that on Amazon, you can actually pay for your ad, your product to be up on the top. So tell us a little bit about what you do and how you got into
Elizabeth Greene (02:37.151)
Mm-hmm.
Elizabeth Greene (02:42.506)
Yeah, I'm so got into it origin stories is with selling and Amazon advertising is a way to not obviously just grow sales because you know, let's be honest, if you have e commerce, you can grow sales. But it's not like you're going to get an organic presence. I mean, you can definitely build up your brand, get branded search, you know, have recognition that way. But it's not like you remember the OG days of Google where you could like spend a lot and then you could rank yourself and then Google was like
wait, this is completely destroying our search algorithms and this is not within our best interest. And so they took it away. That sort of, I don't want to say pay to play aspect, but in a little ways, it's still very prevalent on the Amazon platform. The reason being is the way that the Amazon algorithm is designed is to surface the best products, the products that when average shoppers type in a search, they're purchasing those products.
So as long as you can get a lot of purchases through a specific search, that's recognized by the algorithm. Well, in the Amazon world, they don't really differentiate if you got that sale through an ad or if you got that sale through your organic. So in that way, there's still a hedge, you can't just infinitely spend. If nobody's buying, you're not gonna be rewarded, which who wants to spend on advertising if you're not getting purchases? Anyways, not good, it's business practice.
So there really is that aspect, which means it's very interesting in terms of pay per click platform because there's that like very interesting like business growth dynamic to it. And also because all of the systems, you know, being like tracking sales and then also tracking the advertising, it's all within the same platform. So I mean, there's great ways to look at, you know, like
attribution metrics, if you're advertising on other platforms, but like you have to, I mean, like we're running meta ads, right? You gotta make sure like all your pixels are set up and everything has to be right. And it's like, if you don't know what you're doing, like when we were first running it, it was like, wait, we are not correctly like figuring out attribution. Like you have to set that up. Well, it's a lot easier, obviously, because it's all in the same platform. So like all the spend and all the attributions is like right there. So because you can track it all, like
Elizabeth Greene (05:00.146)
It's definite, it's real numbers. It's not like you can't track it because Amazon's giving you the data. And then also because there's like that organic search rank that you can get, then really you can factor in your advertising into like your overall growth and market share, which again, you can still do that in other platforms. It's reasonable to look at, okay, you know, what's my brand growth, but it's much more, I would say cut and dry when you're talking like Amazon ads.
Brent (05:29.996)
And how did you get into this? Did you, were you selling something on your own or were you interested in then you just got kind of became an expert in it?
Elizabeth Greene (05:36.286)
Yeah, yeah. Good question. So yes, interested and started selling myself. When I say myself, those mean my husband as well. I was looking for a way to sort of bring him because I was staying at home had, you know, my kids. And I was like, dang, I would love to have my husband here as well. And have him be at home with us. And so many there's so much opportunity. It almost feels overwhelming when it comes to like making money online. It's like, opportunities are infinite.
So along the way, one of the opportunities that we found was selling on Amazon. So we started doing that. And then part of that is advertising. And the one thing that I really love about the Amazon community in general is they're very, very open about like sharing very tactical things. In other advertising spaces, there's a lot of good information out there, but not everybody's like, my gosh, I found this really cool hack.
here, let me just share it with everybody, which is like the Amazon community is very much that because then in its origin and like wild west days, everybody was just trying to figure it out. And there was little to no information. So when someone found something, they're like, my gosh, this is amazing. And so the community was really built and it was really built on like a lot of sharing. so when we were up and coming, I found a lot of value in that, like so much information being shared. I was really grateful. So when I started to figure out things with advertising,
I started sharing that in the communities as well, which led to one or two brands being like, okay, like I'm trying to figure out the sad thing. You obviously have something figured out. Would you be interested in managing? And so got in with a couple of brands. Two things happened. One, I surprised myself with getting really good results. And then the second thing happened, which was I found out, I like, I really, enjoyed it. I really enjoyed it. It's a lot of spreadsheets. It's a lot of spreadsheets. And weirdly enough, I found I love building things in spreadsheet.
So that just kind of started the origin story and it's just grown from there.
Brent (07:35.642)
We see or I see Amazon has some bots on there now that help you as a shopper. Are there backend tools that help you as an advertiser as well in terms of AI and learning about some of those that data that you could use for yourself?
Elizabeth Greene (07:48.754)
Yeah. Yeah, so they're they're starting to integrate AI into that the one really interesting thing that they have they're pushing into is an AI generation tool for video ads. So like, a lot of times, like, it's very common to develop a video creative for like other platforms and like UGC content does very, very well. But oftentimes, like getting that creative is very difficult for brands and then even more so for beginner brands.
So the one thing that historically Amazon has done in their advertising is really like democratize access to things that could have been like very difficult to get into. So the barrier to entry for say like running video or like you can start, I think the lowest bid you can set is like two cents on Amazon and you can set even a dollar budget. Now I'm not gonna say you're actually gonna get any impressions for that, but I'm like saying like you can start really, really low and very limited. It's not like you have to put up a specific budget.
And also with like their video ads rolling out and they've also released access to things like Amazon marketing cloud, which is like audience data. And they've also released the ability to do like streaming TV ads. you like everyone who's selling on Amazon has access. Most ones it was in beta, but I think it's rolled out to most brands like you have access to that. Can you imagine like getting like a streaming TV ad very easily? And I want to see the budgets for that are
maybe $200, which if you think about it, access to something like that, it's insane. So they're really recognizing that what they're trying to build is making things that are notoriously difficult and a barrier to entry for some very startup brands like developing creatives. Because let's be honest, if your product, which is nothing wrong if your product's making, say it's making like 15 to 20K a month, well, a lot of times developing a really high quality with
lifestyle, you're hiring models to do things like AI is making that way easier now. And so they're developing assets like that, or also some AI analytics they're baking into their into their sales data dashboards that are telling you like, flagging products, hey, this product's up, hey, this product's down, here's the metrics that have changed on that product, or they're making AI capabilities. So again, democratization, they have
Elizabeth Greene (10:10.418)
their AMC, Amazon Marketing Cloud platform, is like audience information, which is not new, you know, if you know about ads platforms, it's pretty standard. But the one thing that they've done is, you know, to query something like that, you got to know how to write a query code. And so that's a huge barrier to entry. And they've rolled out actually a really fantastic AI enabled query writer. And from the testing, what we've seen is like, actually, it kind of is the most accurate.
in most platforms that you know, because there's other platforms ruling out things, but in our experience, their AI, know, query generator is actually like really on point. So I'm really excited for the future and to see what they come out with next.
Brent (10:55.32)
I just want to continue on the conversation about the video ads. I know that like the last conference I was at, I think was Shop Talk, and they were talking a lot about Amazon just doing actual TV style shows where you would do a live show and sell live. Is that also becoming popular?
Elizabeth Greene (11:07.752)
No.
yeah, yeah. Amazon live. Amazon live. Yeah, that's that is very popular when it first came out. that's it was like a couple years ago. The way that we've seen that work best is there are certain creators who have like made a brand and they do, you know, Amazon streaming live and then you know, link to different products, you can as a brand owner, like you actually have access to that. So again, a lot of resources, a lot of democratization, if you want to like go up and you know, try and create
your own live video, our lives and selling, you absolutely can do that. And I know several brands that started that in the beginning. What they found is that actually partnering with creators who are already like doing it and have the audience is probably the best way to leverage that.
Brent (11:58.254)
How about the ads themselves? Is there a big difference between the platforms? there a difference between LinkedIn, Facebook, Google? I understand that AWS or Amazon, Amazon is self-contained, are actually setting up the ads and things like that. there anything special that people need to worry about and that you help with that then gets them over that hurdle?
Elizabeth Greene (12:25.234)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I would say every platform definitely has its nuances. So there are like if you already understand Google pay per click, you're probably going to be able to get up to speed on Amazon. But I will caution anyone I mean, like myself included, like I went and tried to look at like a meta ads account when we were getting it started. And I'm like,
Okay, now I get my brands, know, when you're in it, you're like, man, just like set it up, you know, it's super easy. And then even I got into like meta ads account and I was like, I have no idea that I'm like, I know paperclip very, very well. It is a completely different piece, completely different platform. So I completely understand, you know, brands just being like, I don't have to figure it out. But what I would say the thing to keep in mind is I think the thing you should keep in mind in any advertising platform, which is just really understanding the customers that are shopping there.
So like with Google pay per click, right? You know, they're probably searching for specific information. So of course you want to speak to those shoppers. If you're doing say like meta ads, right? And you're running Facebook. Well, you're like interrupting the audience where they are. If you're doing TikTok, you know, then maybe it's there. They want to be entertained. So that's going to be a little bit different. I would say the barriers to entry.
are much easier on Amazon because by far the largest ad type which is called sponsored product ads is the creative is your listing. So there's really no creatives involved. You're not like writing headlines or anything. You're simply choosing which search pages are going to make sense for your product. And there I would say still an understanding it is very much a search and purchase plan.
Yes, brands go there to kind of browse, you know, if I'm gonna go shop a gift for my mom, right? I'm like, okay, maybe she, but I'm still thinking like, she likes these things, you know, like she's really into the color purple. So maybe I'll search for purple, right? So I'm still most likely going to be refining my search based on my understanding of what I'm looking for. The other thing about the platform is it's very much a purchase driven platform. So on other platforms, you kind of have to interrupt them, you have to make them interested.
Elizabeth Greene (14:37.126)
not all ads, but for a lot of them, it's very much making sure that the products being surfaced when the customer is looking for it. So if I have like a pink metal water bottle, if somebody searches pink metal water bottle, like that's where I want to show up, right? I might show up on like drinking glasses, like that's, you know, it's very purchase intent driven. So you definitely want to make sure you're being surfaced there. And then other little nuances is like, is some
advertising platforms, you can like switch around the match types, you can't do that, you know, you either launched a match type relaunch something else. Or in our experience, like in certain platforms, if you like replicate a campaign, you know, you can just duplicate it. And then it works exactly the same. It doesn't happen in Amazon. To be honest, it's infuriating. You're like, it's the same thing campaign like what has changed? I don't know. Like that's different. Moving keywords, you're like, I don't want this keyword here. would rather it be in this campaign.
Again, moving things around, changing things in terms of structure, kind of sort of her performance. So like on Amazon, if it's like, if it's working, just leave it alone. You know, just kind of work within the bounds of whatever you can there. So like the, there's little nuances, which is why it's kind of helpful to have someone in your corner who like just kind of understands all those weird quirks.
Brent (15:58.03)
Yeah, what would you recommend if somebody's getting started? What would they, what's the best way to get started with Google ads or not Google ads? Sorry. Amazon ads. Sorry.
Elizabeth Greene (16:08.304)
Yeah, I would say the best way so if you don't feel like you have a good handle on what your specific keywords are, or you're trying to like understand it. Honestly, it's kind of an old school approach, but it's not necessarily broken. It's just it might take you a little bit longer to get the data you need. Is there something in the automatic campaign where you can put in your product, you can allow the algorithm to kind of surface.
you on the specific searches that make sense. This will surface you on keywords, it'll surface you on product pages, and then of course you can read those search term reports. It'll be like, okay, where do I convert? Where do I not convert? Add the negatives where I don't convert, you know, try and prove it. That can be really helpful. So if you don't feel really solid in your keyword research methodologies, I would say, honestly, it's the easiest way to start. And to be honest, we still run auto campaigns because they do perform really well.
And then of course, at that point, you can pull out the searches at work, put those in manual campaigns. If you feel more confident in your keyword research, then again, you can start with testing those specific keywords. Again, what I found time and time again, it's like, pay attention to what shoppers are purchasing through that keyword. And to figure it out, it's the easiest thing in the world. All you got to do is go to the Amazon platform.
you type in the keyword that you want to target, and you look at that page. An example would be, like, there was a product that we're starting to target, and it's one of the keywords that I thought would be relevant for the product is car choc, because it's like a car-shaped choc. It's the cutest thing ever. It's adorable. It's going to do really well. So I typed in car choc, because I'm like, oh, this specifically describes the product. And then I looked at the search page, and I was like, oh, this is all like,
Carchalk like the kind that dealers are using to write like the prices on windshields. wait No, carchalk is not super relevant. Okay, and like again just me reading it my understanding I'm like, this makes total sense and then I go to Amazon I look at the search and I'm like, okay. Wait, maybe this doesn't make sense. Okay, let me you know, let me let me reconfigure Let me see where this product is being searched
Brent (18:18.126)
Elizabeth, we're burning through time quite quickly. This has been super interesting. What would you say if we just looked at some of the things that are happening with tariffs? How do you recommend that users on Amazon buffer themselves from some of those challenges?
Elizabeth Greene (18:38.598)
Yeah, I would say for most of our brands, what they've been doing is raising price, which is obviously notoriously difficult because at a higher price point, you know, that does affect the conversion rates of the products oftentimes. And then the other thing that we're doing is just you got to readjust your targets, really.
And what we found in any of those scenarios, be it, you know, like, inventory is going to run out. We had to write prices that affect conversion rate changes in the market, what have you. It's really working backwards from like, where are we now? So it's looking at, again, I come from an ads perspective, but I think this is good business perspective anyways. It's just like looking at the numbers and saying like, okay, what are our actual profit margins after these things have happened?
Where are we now? And then it's looking at okay, so given that this is where we are now One again, do we have to raise prices and if we do, you know, how does you know? But then still it's like okay even with the raised prices Do we have the same profit margins we had before we have a little bit less and then again just like like any good business Plan, know, you're going okay. This is how much margin I have to play with This is what I can piece out to say the advertising. This is what we can afford now
what adjustments can we make? Most likely setting expectations because oftentimes it just doesn't make sense to have the budgets be as high as they were. And that's fine. I don't think there's anything wrong with it. But it's just like, all right, what's the game plan? Right? Instead of just saying like, we need to lower it. Great. But like, but how much like, is it a little bit? Is it a lot? And then you just it's almost like cards on the table. What is the hand I'm dealt and then you just like figure out how to play the cards.
Brent (20:20.142)
Perfect Elizabeth, we have a few minutes left as they close out the podcast to give everybody a chance to do a shameless plug about anything they'd like. Would like to plug today?
Elizabeth Greene (20:29.802)
Absolutely, so I'm definitely gonna plug the agency I would say go to junglr.com JUNGLR .com you have a brand or if you're interested in advertising on there We do free audit so if you have a brand that's already running on the platform And you want someone to take a look at the ads promise. not gonna hard sell you ideally I do an audit. That's so amazing you go. my gosh. This is fantastic, please Yes, I will hire you but either way hopefully that's valuable and then if anyone's kind of interested on getting
up on the platform or say you're launching a new product. If you go there to resources, in the drop down menu, there's something about a launch plan. So we actually give away like it's a whole it's like a 32 page PDF. It took me way too long to put that together. And we'll give it away for free. That's literally the playbook rerun when we're trying to do product launches with advertising. So feel free to swipe it and I hope it's I hope it works.
Brent (21:20.3)
That's great. I'm since we're I think we're both connected with Scott Oseman from always off brand. I'm going to plug his podcast for Amazon. And yeah, Lisbon has been a great, great conversation today. Thank you so much for being here.
Elizabeth Greene (21:26.932)
Mm-hmm. Yes.
Elizabeth Greene (21:35.73)
No, thank you for having me. This was great.