Attraction, relationships, and more. A bonus episode with Veronika from Germany

In this episode, Veronika and I talk about a variety of topics pertaining to male and female qualities that are desirable in addition to relationships and sexual selection. we also go over beauty standards, male and female gaze, fashion, and much more. We were very open about these topics in this round 2 of our conversation that started at 10 pm and finished at 12 am.

Here's a timestamp that roughly estimates each subject's duration:

General differences between men and women: 00:01:00 – 00:10:00
Relationships and expectations 00:11:00–00:16:00
Attachment through intercourse 00:17:00-00:23:00
Feminine energy 00:24:00–00:27:00
Attraction and Female/male energy 00:28:00–00:33:00
Female and male gaze 00:33:01–00:39:00
Attractiveness and beauty standards 00:40:00–00:44:00
Signaling through clothing 00:45:00–00:54:00
Attractive wear 00:55:00–00:59:00
How much to reveal? 00:60:00 – 1:05:00
Misconstruing signals 1:05:00 – 1:11:00
Female-female fashion competition 1:12:00 – 1:16:00
Clothing choices 1:16:00 – 1:26:00
What is attractive? 1:27:00 – 2:00:00

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Creators & Guests

Host

Abdullah Najjar

What is Connecting the Pack?

"Connecting the Pack" is a podcast from WKNC 88.1 FM HD-1/HD-2 that allows international students to share their unique stories and how they have ended up studying at NC State.

Abdullah Najjar 0:00
All right, so this is a bonus episode with my guest, Veronica bethere. From Germany. We previously recorded an episode that explores her educational journey, cultural exposure and things of that nature. But in this episode, we go over a variety of topics that are usually not tackled in connecting a pack. Still, I hope you would enjoy this episode. Welcome to round two. champion with Victoria. I'm sorry. First cut 20 episodes for the year? No, you know, he knows that this is, you know that I know you.

Veronika Becher 0:52
Appreciate it. I won't be questionable after 10 hours of talking to chuck.

Abdullah Najjar Speaker 1:02
It's great. I mean, I

Abdullah Najjar 1:03
I never had, you know, very rarely would I have such long conversations, you know, I mean, it rarely happens because people, you know, they're not as open and as I guess, forthcoming as you are. And I think it's a good trot.

Veronika Becher 1:24
I'm getting compliments. Like, oh, my God. No, I appreciate it. No, I just really like talking to people. And I guess I've just been triggered by so many stories and people you meet along the way. And I feel like I will say the introverts are the most interesting people. And that's like a weird thing to say maybe, but I feel like they will give you more stories when they open up, and stories that you would never expect to hear from, ya know, that essentially correct not saying that extroverts are not, you know, good storytellers.

Abdullah Najjar 2:00
I mean, it's yeah, it's like you don't there's like an aura to people that just tend to stick to themselves in a way where they're just like, they seem a little bit secluded. And it's like you're interested, it's like, well, it's a mystery. And like, your curiosity just starts propelling you to want to know more about them. Like the ones that you rarely open up and ones that usually don't talk, you're like, Well, I

Veronika Becher 2:27
want to know about them. I want to know what they think. I'm like, Toby, what you're thinking?

Abdullah Najjar 2:35
Yeah, I think that's, I was listening to a podcast. And one of in a woman was saying that, I think it's more of like a female thing, wanting to know what other people think? Or is that I don't know, accurate?

Veronika Becher 2:49
Because sometimes, my friends joke how I act like a guy. And I don't know, I actually don't know. Because apparently, there's a trade about like, So, guys, they know, they want to know right away how you feel about something that would address it, and women just want to talk about it, but they don't want advice. Like it doesn't make sense. So women will be like, laying up like, like, talk about something the feel bothered about, or whatever it is. Talk about for hours, but they don't want you to judge them. And they don't want you, you know, they don't want you to review at all. They just want you to listen to it. That's right. And then guys are more like, you know, I don't know, maybe I'm off. But like, I feel like they're more like right away, give you a feedback, and then it's over? I don't know. Yeah, sir. Thank you.

Abdullah Najjar 3:40
It is true. It is true. And I think a lot of people discover that more when they're like in a in a relationship, they start discovering that man, it's like, these two, there's two different ways of looking, you know, the book, like Women Are From Mars, and Men Are From Venus, or whatever it is.

Veronika Becher 4:00
Even though I know

Abdullah Najjar 4:04
that's crazy, invitees to I think body language expert or like, you know, experts on like, I guess human psychology or whatever. I think there are a couple. But anyways, I mean, it is true, what you just laid out. I think it

Veronika Becher 4:16
was a codec explanation. I was like, that was so unstructured. And, yeah, it is.

Abdullah Najjar 4:22
It is I totally get it. I mean, it's, it's like if I were if he were to share with me, you know, very sort of like it maybe a story or an experience. And then I, you know, I'm more inclined to maybe want to help you out. And that gives you the solution almost, yeah, provide something practical,

Veronika Becher 4:45
but then women are like, I just want to talk and ramble about it for an hour. And then I want your opinion and I don't want you to judge me. Simply you told me that I'm wrong. And I'm the opposite way around sometimes and that's why we're, like preferred. So just joking about that. I'm like, I want to solve it right away, I just want to give you a feedback into this person, like, I don't want to hear your feedback.

Abdullah Najjar 5:07
I think it's just a way. I mean, generally, I think even with, like, if you look at statistics, like men are very much attracted generally to seeing things and like, objects, and they want to solve problems in a way. But in like, when you compare that to women, when when, when they, when these researchers, when they started doing polls and looking at trends, they noticed that women are more attracted to, like, the humanities and people and things like that. So there's like, it's as if men have something about them. That's like more practical. But women have something more nuanced. So it's like men are all about Yes, or no solution or not. But they don't really are, they aren't able to maybe view a woman's a women's perspective, that might be more nuanced. The men's

Veronika Becher 6:08
carriages, you know, period, just like dot like it's okay. Because, no, that's a statement. That's like a huge problem in business. I think, like one of the reason why I think men sometimes don't want women to be in business, is because women saw things differently. And I think this is a huge debate that you can start, but it's just like, why women should or should not belong to into business? Oh, there is such a thing. Yeah, that's a huge thing. Like, I feel like that's one of the issues though, like, you know, integrating women into the business field, what is the quote, they commonly like? Women should be accepted in comparison to men. And then companies, I don't know if yours a thing, but in Germany, definitely, there's like a quote, like, oh, come to our company, because we accept like 50% women and 50% of men, because so like, to this point, you see barely any women in the higher positions. And there is a thing of Oh, yeah, but women think differently. And that's why they should not be in like the business field. And it makes sense, because I feel like sometimes I've noticed with myself, I don't come to a point, like I just walk around the topic, not because I can be direct, but rather, I don't know how to express it. Interesting. So I will be like, it takes me two sentences or three to explain something, while man is like just this is the thing. That's like, that's the answer. That's the solution.

Abdullah Najjar 7:36
But that's like the like, I'm fascinated by both sides. Because for one thing you might need to a certain extent, you might need, in certain situations, a solution to maybe a problem, or you want something definitive. But in other cases, you really want to look at the big picture, right? Like you want something more again, I use the word nuanced. But yeah, like something more holistic, if you know what I'm saying? Yes. And so I think you really like you need both sides to complement one another. Like, I might need you to explain something to me from a perspective that I'm just not so aware of. Because you have I guess, maybe it's genetic, but I don't know, you have that like the mentality or the frame of thinking, that allows you to see it from a very holistic standpoint, like 180. But sometimes you might need that side, which you know, may be occupied by the men where it's like, you know, we need something quick and concise. You know what I'm saying? Yes,

Veronika Becher 8:47
I feel like, that's just like, the longer I'm in business, sometimes I agree with men and that feel bad about it before like, even judging it. To begin with. Yeah. About, like, there are certain moments or like certain solutions, like projects where I feel like it will be so much easier just to come to the point and be done with it again, 10 minutes and not do like a whole hour meeting where you discuss the same thing over and over again, I'm like, Just do the PowerPoint, right. I don't know. Yeah, that's like the whole thing. Yeah,

Abdullah Najjar 9:18
no, I, I think a lot of that stuff. You know, it's hard for me to tell if it's that, like, because we notice these trends, and it's hard to tell if it's like, genetic or cultural. Because it's just, it seems like it's not just like exclusive to a particular part of the world. Like you notice it across the board. And I just wonder like, what, to what extent is that part of our human nature and versus you know, it being from like a cultural thing or cultural evolution in a way you know, I'm saying like, it's just um, but yeah, you learn a lot from these interactions, you know, with with the opposite sex like you need, you know, one has to understand the other.

Veronika Becher 10:05
Agree. I mean, it's even like, all the products you develop everything you sell, even like from a business perspective, you sell to both genders unless you specify and you're like, okay, my segment is only man 30 plus whatever. But some of them are mostly for both genders. And so you're like, I don't know, how do you understand? It's the same topic we had, you know, previously, where I was like, how do you understand as a business student without taking anyone else out of your business bubble? Yeah, how business works, and how, or rather how people that are not in the business world think in what they need in what they want, you will probably never do, like you can do as much as you want market research, but it makes it more difficult, I think, to understand the psychological differences in certain marketing practices and so on.

Abdullah Najjar 10:56
Yeah, you're absolutely right. I mean, you need to be out there in that in the world to understand the demand. Because you can't really, and you met, you touched on that earlier, like, you can't really make something without knowing if people actually need it. Like if it's necessary, like you really need to understand what's out there, what people want. And then maybe liver, like it's as if you're solving a problem. And again, I think you would need both men and women because like limited will look at it from a very, like nuanced perspective. Maybe men have like a, they lack that sort of understanding of just looking at the bigger picture, I guess. And I think a lot of that, I don't know how much to what extent we can train men and women to understand each other.

Veronika Becher 11:45
Oh, my gosh, I think it's possible. Yeah, like you can sometimes. I don't know. I don't know how much like man talk about it like about the relationship issues, but know that women do over each other. And it's like, he's like, trying to figure out how like, man think and how it works. And it's super complicated sometimes, like, don't get me wrong, but I feel like the whole thing with distinguishing Oh, this is how men think this is a woman think is also limit not working? Because I feel like there are also exceptions, and sometimes men are even more complicated and relationships and women are just being honest here.

Abdullah Najjar 12:20
No, no, you're right. I mean, I think you pointed this out earlier with like communication. I think that's one of those. And you mentioned, like, you gotta communicate, like cannot assume. And I think one of the things that drives these assumptions, is the exposure to fiction, and how relationships are depicted in fiction. Oh, and I

Veronika Becher 12:48
like movies. Yeah. Oh. Yeah. No, go ahead. Go ahead.

Abdullah Najjar 12:56
You know, like, I think it's, it's that exposure to something that is completely, I think, unreal or unattainable, gave people an impression that that's just how it is in real life. But once you it's like, it's it's fiction. I mean, the way the reason why maybe it's appealing, or is that it looks so like, perfect or dazzle is because they want it to look that way. It's like, it's something that is it's surrealism, right. It's just not the way that it is. But you translate that into the world real life scenarios and you realize the cash it doesn't look like how it was depicted in movies, is, the more you detach yourself from that fiction

Veronika Becher 13:42
than what disappointed you are? No, oh, no, not detach, detach, it's good.

Abdullah Najjar 13:48
Because then when you detach yourself, you're more experienced in the real world. And so you, and, you know, a lot of these, I guess, relationships fail because of these expectations that people build for one another, through that exposure to fiction.

Veronika Becher 14:09
To to add on, I think there's a difference. That's the thing that I've seen so often between female like male like kind of parts. If you like, just divide up to two genders. No.

Abdullah Najjar 14:23
conversation we can, you know, would

Veronika Becher 14:26
you see sometimes as like, women, they fall in love with time and sometimes would you see why relationships fail or not work the way she wants it to be? You know, it's because you have a certain story or scenario in your head and like, oh, no, what he's like he's gonna change I can change him. That's how it works addiction and that's seriously problem like women think oh, I will change him or no, but he's doing this and that and so sweet, but just ignores all the red flags. And then man, I feel like they just if they don't like the girl they don't like If the girl from the beginning on like the, of course it takes a while, but to realize that maybe, but they will know. And if they know, they just know, they may not show it right away. Like, there's several reasons for that. But I feel like women can fell off of someone over time, while men are like, they, it's more like a yes or no, it's not like, let's start a story in fiction, and then imagine how this relationship could be like, Yeah, this guy and his family and we like each other. And he likes me and whatever else you want to add, to write.

Abdullah Najjar 15:36
But I mean, it's also this is a very fascinating point, because it reminds me of, you know, psychiatrist who spoke about subjects similar, you know, where he said that you do find a substantial demographic of women attracted to someone who's obviously very toxic. And, you know, it has certain traits that are not conducive to like a good relationship in the long run. But they have that idea where they want to maybe change him. Right. And, you know, that's some, I think, scientifically studied, I'm not sure how much how accurate it is, a lot of it has to do, obviously, with, you know, you your experience, maybe from learning about people's stories or whatnot. And then you develop an understanding of it tried to, you know, develop a trend, but the psychiatrist was talking about, you know, something similar where he said, It is empirically, you know, it's, there's something about that, that that rings true, where there's a substantial number of women that do find that sort of personality, to a certain extent appealing, but they want to change that person. And, yeah, it's, I think, yeah, men would tell from the beginning, how do I like a person who I want to, you know, stick around

Veronika Becher 17:00
or just have I feel like, they just maybe note at some point, I don't know, I'm not guys go back. Like, it's more obvious. I've okay, I don't know, the whole, like, scientific process behind it, if it's hormones, and pheromones, or whatever it is. So I excuse myself a lot. But I also write up that apparently, through like, you know, it sounds weird, but sexual intercourse in general. Yeah. Um, there is a specific like hormone that gets, you know, out of, like, you know, release. Thank you. Oh, yes, release. And there's only specific one that is released for men if they like the woman, while for women, it's, the more often it happens. Sexual intercourse is like, really interesting. And like, just undeserved increase attachment, in a way. Yes. And so that's like, the whole story behind it. I don't want to go into too many details here. But that's what she like, how it works. And so that's how friendship of benefits sometimes don't work. Because women, the more they like, with the guy, the more they feel attached to the person. Yeah, man, if he doesn't like her from the beginning on, like, even by on like a chemical, you know, level, he will never, that he can settle down for it, like, you know, but he would never like love her lover. Yeah. And that's the problem. Like, we're women get attached to that guy, after they like, just in a friendship with benefits relationship. And then the second thing really, like interesting study. So I talked about it literally, with my German friends, like a week ago, something interesting. And it's the thing with, if a woman has a specific IQ, then there's a really small percentage that she will meet someone who's she's interested in, can match up with, because the higher your IQ is, like not EQ but IQ, the least people will like be on the same level of her intelligent wise. And she will just there's like a such a small percentage left, right, so like 1% Because so many guys just fall out of the category and mostly like the woman tries to find someone who is like the same intelligence level as they are. And the more like, smarter she is. The least guys actually want to be with her because they think okay, she's like, super smart. And the other way around, she's maybe also interested in them to begin with.

Abdullah Najjar 19:34
That's okay. Two things I want to say because you touched on two, I think different but very, very connected topics. And I want to really talk about both because I think I've you know, I've done a lot of I guess I read about these things off and so remember, I wanted to go into GE earlier, but

Veronika Becher 19:54
we will be in the same category with business, you know, business psychology, the omics and point life and Men PolyScience is negative. So let's just cover all of them in one go.

Abdullah Najjar 20:07
But here's here's, here's the thing, the thing about the sexual intercourse thing I read so much about that, and I noticed that for women are three times as likely to fall in love with their sexual partners than men would less likely. More like, three times as like, like so three

Veronika Becher 20:27
more like that. Yeah, yeah. So like they're yesterday, like 33%

Abdullah Najjar 20:32
More, it's,

Veronika Becher 20:35
there was a whole thing about it. It's just like, apparently orgasms are the reason for that. Or one of the reasons is just like, sad moment for all the guys who can somewhat come, but it's like, just everyone the orgasms. Connect the woman. I don't know the whole biological process, like I can not explain in English, but connect the woman to the guy like she falls in love more like, the more they have sexual intercourse, the more she will, like, feel connected to the person. Interesting. There was even a whole theory about how if you kiss someone that how DNA is getting like, like, how the it's really complicated to explain here, but there's so much like more happening.

Abdullah Najjar 21:22
Yeah, that's yeah, I mean, it's incredible, because I never, like I read about these things from or listen to, you know, evolutionary biologists talking about there

Veronika Becher 21:31
is a thing that is just like when you kiss someone, you know, right away if the person is suitable for you, biologically,

Abdullah Najjar 21:36
so is this equal for men and women? Like they could just wow and

Veronika Becher 21:40
so apparently the whole thing with why men prefer maybe whether kisses like, what's weird enough? Maybe it's because the more they change?

Abdullah Najjar 21:53
I mean, saliva,

Veronika Becher 21:54
thank you saliva. My favorite word that I can never say it's definitely saliva. The, the more they know, like, okay, is this person suitable? Not for me, like really? Like biologically that's, it might be like, there's so many studies, and I don't know if they're, like, 100% proven, but that's just something that I've read up on. And I'm like, Okay, that's interesting. Well, like, women don't need much. So that's the whole experience point. So

Abdullah Najjar 22:23
for men, there's a lot of determinants. Yes. But for women, it's not

Veronika Becher 22:28
for women. It's important when they kiss each other, they like figure out oh, is this the partner? Because they can only have one child at a time, right? Yeah, but men are more like the whole thing with reproductive system. Yeah, biologically speaking. It's like, the more kids the better. And it's just the whole thing. They change, you know, oh, is it suitable, but I will also continue going from woman to woman, not that I'm saying this is all cheating works. But to like, try to have more kids. So why the woman is like, Is this the one?

Abdullah Najjar 22:59
Yeah, well, that's a good one. Because I think I mean, historically, most cultures if not all, were polyamorous, right? You had men with, like, one men and many women like that. So habit. I mean, this Yes, countries, but I mean, historically speaking, that's how it was, I mean, men really wanted to ensure that their lineage remains, like stays alive. And so, like there. I think in today's world, you have it goes against the biological determinant. That has been the case for many histories for for longest history, but at the same time, there's so much that I think so much value from the monogamous relationship like one just one partner, but but some people still, I mean, to this day, not just like cultures that are far far away, but even here in the United States, some are polyamorous like, they have a you know, open relationship or whatnot, where they are okay with this sort of exploratory endeavor, but they still cling on to one another. If that makes sense. It

Veronika Becher 24:12
makes sense. But also like one thing that I actually think that makes totally sense in these type of relationships is you know, you have seen sometimes even in like, lesbian relationships, sounds maybe like off topic, where one has more like a female energy and one has Mulliken male energy, right? Yeah, like, I don't know how to even explain it. It's like I called energy. Yeah. And so I feel like it makes sense when you like with someone who has more like male like energy, and you're attracted to also someone who has a female energy because they like they are completely different, like energies does make sense. You know, when you have like, mix, yeah, if it doesn't

Abdullah Najjar 24:57
know it, maybe I can give you maybe it like it is sample of it that I? It could make it clear. I don't know if it could I mean, not it should, but it could. So I think, in general, when you have so this might sound I don't know how how open you want to have this sort of pressure, but I can I can.

Veronika Becher 25:23
I don't know, like I'm running around. I'm like, that's fine. That's fine. Okay, I can,

Abdullah Najjar 25:28
I can No, like, really I could take it to the very next step. And that's where I think maybe things would become, I guess, kind of clear. But tell me if it's going in the same sort of, I guess, direction direction that you were trying to get across. So. So I'm sure you've heard that the terms hot and beautiful. Like these two terms? Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Generally speaking, I think there's the hotness as a is like, it's like an aura. It's like energy. Right. And for a lot of, for a lot of, I guess, men, they would be attracted to that. But they will also be attracted to someone who's beautiful as well. It's different energy. It's hard to explain. But some people would say that, you know, men would very rarely end up settling down with someone who is hot.

Veronika Becher 26:32
Isn't this exactly the thing with wifey material? Yes, no, seriously, the thing was like, so she would be dating just to date and just like to hang out with Yeah, then someone who I will marry in the end. It's not someone Oh, date that right.

Abdullah Najjar 26:50
And that one person has? Generally I think if you run the poll has way more like traditionally guess feminine energy, if that makes sense. Like very, it's sort of that person would typically embody what has traditionally been considered typical female traits, like submissiveness. You know,

Veronika Becher 27:19
I think I get what you mean, I was talking more about, like, you know, relationships where you're like, together with several people, and it just like depending on the energy, no one you're like with a guy, but then the woman is like, LP open to actually date also girls that same time, because you feel like you need the female energy to Oh, you talked about bisexual relationships? Almost. Yeah. But it doesn't have to be bisexual specifically. So that's why I'm saying it's just like, that's something I've noticed. But also going back to what you were talking about, you know, to two genders. two genders. Like what alphas attend to you like, what was the thought process God? So okay, wait, we were talking about hotness and beauty? Yes. wifey material. Yes, that's an issue with business. Like why people sometimes criticize people, like women who were really successful in their business career is because the more like they are in the business industry, the more they attain male traits. Exactly. Yeah. And the more they are unattractive to man. Because why? Like, it's kind of the thought of, why should I date someone who's like me, but yeah, like energy wise.

Abdullah Najjar 28:42
Exactly. That's a good one. That's, that's why generally like men wouldn't want they're not attracted to a woman who may be dresses or talks or walks like men, if they're street men,

Veronika Becher 28:58
and this the sky is more female oriented. And that's on the F experience. Actually, I thought at first, like, unless you're gay, unless you have a different sexuality. You usually like a guy guy. But there are moments where just notice like, people act more female oriented, but not that they look like a female. It's, it can be even something like their family upbringing, like their feminine you mean their feminine, more feminine? Yeah, but it's more their traits. The way they think the way they express themselves, not the way they act specifically. Yeah, like maybe they don't walk like a female, you know, but that's just something and these are the you know, some relationships where like the like, the girl ends up taking the lead, kind of like has the pants on, on everyone, everyone and helps him. It's sometimes so your healthy relationships, but sometimes it's not. Yeah, because if she is not from the beginning on this type of female, she just suppresses her own leg. For no feminity, I'm an NDP.

Abdullah Najjar 30:04
But that's very interesting though, because a lot of times, I think, like, I would consider myself very much in tune with both my male and feminine energy in a way. And what I mean by that is that, even with the way I dress, there are times when I know for a fact that what I have on can give that sort of very warm sort of feminine energy, like it. Sometimes, like if I had, if I had corduroy pants and a bomber jackets, and I grew my beard out, that would typically look like a you know, like a quintessentially traditional male from, like, the 60s 70s era, I think that's, you know, typically the type of energy that I would give through that sort of, you know, and, and it's sometimes I hear, I'm kind of breaking all the ice here, sometimes very intentional, like, I know that if I'm going to put that outfit on, I have to grow my beard out, you know, so it's like, very, very masculine energy. And I know that, you know, that it's, that's what because that's what we associate these, this sort of look with, right? The bomber jacket has always been associated with the people in the military, because it started out in the military, and who goes into the military, probably the most masculine brute, like, you know, very, very, like the strongest of the strong, and who were, you know, corduroy pants, like most of the, you know, if you think about quarterbacks, when you think about traditional, like, male archetype, and obviously, like a beard, you know, it always it doesn't have, you know, it has a lot of male energy to it. Especially because, you know, we're, I guess we are, we're considered sexually dimorphic there are things we like men have or possess that women don't have, and vice versa. You know, we develop, I guess, facial hair, and that's a very, very masculine trait. But oftentimes, you know, if I'm like, you know, if I had my, my crocheted scarf and my very creamy cardigan, it will be like completely opposite. Very simple like that. And sometimes I have that on and I don't have like a beard on look very, sort of, it gives out very, like, warm kind of feminine energy, but you know, and would that sort of bomber jacket, corduroy pants, I have boots, such as the ones that I have right now. And, you know, you get what I'm saying, like, you're getting a different energy,

Veronika Becher 32:35
it makes sense. But I also feel like, it depends on the country you're from, and where you live. Because I feel like certain things we would not wear here. People wear every single day. And then there are things were you considered of that's a normal thing to wear. But another country's is like, No, that was me. Has nothing to do with like female and like male like, clothes and the way people perceive you. Yeah, but all my friends are joking about my marshmallow code. Marshmallow co so if anyone sees me with a green huge marshmallow code, that's probably me. I'm the only one on campus and I'm not even joking. All right. It's a long coat that almost goes up to my knees. Yeah, we're like, even lower. Okay, when it's just like, it's not like, like just a big coat. That's it. There's I just like it because in the wintertime, it gets really cold and I freeze all the time, even here, like and that's not even cold and everyone's like judging me like, why are you wearing this coat? But it's thing like that, like a big coat would be nothing no one even look twice at you when you weren't in Germany. Or if you weren't even in New York, like Lucci look about places. And not because it's warmer or colder, but because it's just more standard, like a fashion standard to work. And here everyone's like, Okay, you weird, like you were you're wearing coats, that's not normal. You're wearing a hat. It's not even called make okay, sorry, but I just got to use shirt and it doesn't matter how cold again. I'm still feeling like I'm freezing. Right? And then the second thing is the you know, have you heard of the male gaze and the female gaze?

Abdullah Najjar 34:10
Okay, tell me about that

Veronika Becher 34:11
over guys. That's exciting. I always just want to talk a talk about like, oh how people perceive each other and what you perceive as male. Yeah, it's so the best explanation is you think of a really good movie like a movie where you have this like, you know, Margaret Ravi like and her like really nice dress. Really short dress. Sexy body. She just walks off to this cool car. Yeah, good card. Please give me good car like sharara you push

Abdullah Najjar 34:43
No, we will. Charger

Veronika Becher 34:47
no definitely people don't like dogs charged with Siri. Okay, I'm gonna cancel it for that. But no, I wouldn't like a good old timer like a good good old timer. Like even like, you know, like even a Chevrolet

Abdullah Najjar 35:02
or like, Oh, you're talking about classic classic cars. Yeah.

Veronika Becher 35:05
Oh, whatever she's opening up, you know, the truck. That's like the male gaze. So let me okay, this is what the guy thinks it's attractive and the way women are perceived for years and like movies and theatre and whatever else you want to take is based on the male gaze. What do you think is sexy? Like the whole tight dress like Baywatch type of thing, you know, they run over the you know, just looks so sexy. And then the male gaze continues and it's like, oh, how do you perceive? Like, what do you guys think women with like, on guys? And it's so so the whole culture about like, let's go to the gym, get both muscles. That's the big guys. It's the male gaze. And so why Kpop and I totally get that maybe there are guys who get you know, they think it's crazy. Why women you know, look after this one buy it at like, you know, guy who's just in BDS and like, oh my gosh, oh, yeah. I love him. I want to marry him. Don't get me wrong. It's just, it makes sense. But the reason why females are attracted to like BTS in the like, but they look like boys, not like actual real men. It's the female gaze. And the female gaze is how female? What like what would female like, look, you know, when they look at a guy what they think is attractive, in the opposite way of what guys think. Oh, yeah. So

Abdullah Najjar 36:31
that's the miscommunication. It is.

Veronika Becher 36:33
And so when you see all these, like, you know, really buff guys. It's not always the female gaze, and not like not all women think that guys are attractive with like, a six pack and like, a lot of muscles and like really many, sometimes they don't want that. So the reason why BDS and all these, like, you know, just Oh, used to be. I used to be but not for me. Sorry. I just thought of myself as now being like the Justin Bieber. I listen to his music. When I was a kid. I don't judge, you know, there's nothing to judge to be honest. And the zero to just deeper? No, it's because they look more feminine in a way they tap. You know, that's like the critique. Oh, no beard? No, like, Yeah, isn't that no muscles, or the you do have muscles. But you know, in SFP my gaze and the same one movies are created by female you see that female characters are dressed differently than what you receive magrabi coming out. Cool, really pretty dress, you know? And that's exactly how what the to, like, the misconception is what we think female lot like people like what people I mean, in general, like to generalize, it is not always the same as what actually is and what men think is

Abdullah Najjar 37:57
right. That's completely right. And I think I've heard very much, something very similar from an evolutionary biologist, and on a podcast, he was talking about how, you know, it's not like, he's like saying, you know, women don't like the whole Arnold Schwarzenegger bodybuilding, certainly. That's just too much. Like, it's not like, Sure, you can be fit, you can take care of yourself, but then it becomes very excessive. Like, it's too much. It's just abnormal. Like, it's just not, you know, sure. They might like, you know, broad shoulders, waist to hip, sort of, like the, you know, the, the, the, whatever, yeah, but at some point it gets, like, there's like a, you reach a threshold where everything above that is too much too much.

Veronika Becher 38:49
What is the same with with like, female bodybuilders, like in general, where people like, oh, livid muscles is nice, toned. It's nice. Yeah. But then muscles? No,

Abdullah Najjar 38:59
it becomes Yeah, it becomes like too excessive. It's like, it just becomes so male like, right, for a straight male, that wouldn't be attractive. And you know, for a female, like a very huge guy. It's just not attractive, you know,

Veronika Becher 39:13
also depends on culture, culture, we have a whole debate around there and a friend who saw this girl stating she's like, really, like, thin and small. And she's dating this really big guy. And I was like, well, there might be something weird, but there are cultures. I've seen this in Russia. I've seen this in other cultures, or other countries where it's normal. Like it's a standard the computer center to date a really big guy while being like the really thin and girl likes little girl. Kind of like to dream but not everyone has a dream. Okay, um, but that's the thing. But

Abdullah Najjar 39:51
yeah, I mean, I, I always thought about how like, I mean, whenever I like I never I was While for many years, naive in a way where I didn't know what was like, Is that considered attractive? Is that not? You know, after, you know, after time you start to understand more, I think it's through communication, you know, when listening to what the scientists have to say, looking at surveys, you know, like, through that you develop trends. I mean, I think generally, we can easily speak about, we can sometimes generalize things, but we also have to, we shouldn't forget that yeah, there is nuance, there are exceptions. And I'm sure there is a woman out there that really loves big big guy. An old guy. There are, there's, there's, there's a trend, but there's also exceptions. And I think that applies to everything.

Veronika Becher 40:54
It's the same with like body standards, like it used to be like, Oh, curvy, like a year, like a year ago. And now it's like going back to like model sizes and like size year and VT and girls and it's just a trend. And I don't think it will change anything about you know, how guys view or woman you each other? I don't know.

Abdullah Najjar 41:17
Yeah, I don't think really, I mean, I don't think men are just attracted to like the model type that we that you see on the runway, like the very, very skinny. That's just, you know, too much. Right? Like, it just becomes abnormal. Like,

Veronika Becher 41:33
I have a story.

Abdullah Najjar Speaker 41:35
I want to hear that. No,

Veronika Becher 41:37
really. I'm gonna expose my dad I am Litchi oh my gosh, I remember back in high school. No, I think middle school even. Or I was like only curvy girl in four American centers. Apparently for American students. I'm like not big. For a peon. Sometimes I am even considered that's weird. Like, don't worry. I'm not big, big. I'm good. Like, I'm no one besides, like me, you're very nervous. Okay. Okay. really random. I just had to like mature and, and I was like, so when we're like, in middle school, I felt like most guys in Germany that were around me like only thin girls. Like once without any figure. I always call it the H Lake. You know, like waist, your no boobs, you have nothing. So, as much as I felt like, this is so cool. And I also want to be like that. When I was in middle school, my dad came up to me and he's really like an honest like, I don't know, he just comes out of nowhere and just talking about

yes, so yeah, there are more stories. My dad is like, a personality. You could start a podcast about him. My mom too. So I had to Zog Veronica, don't worry when you get older there will be guys appreciate it and you're just like, That's what I remember. It's just like he's right. When you get older they will not think for like just like snobby guys like fingers. Okay? Because some guys, he just like you just imagine a middle school. Like don't worry. My dad is a good dad. Don't please don't report her. Like, but she's like super honest. And you know, he's like, honestly, some guys want to touch something. They don't want to just like go whoa. It sounds like think

Abdullah Najjar 43:40
that's a great dad. He deserves a dad of the Year award. But seriously, yeah, you need like even I heard like another study with with women being pulled about like six apps. Like do you notice a trend sometimes when like women saying yeah, like a dad bod and everything? Like yeah, you know, I need some like a cushion for the pushin you know?

Veronika Becher 44:05
Like, it's literally just me of boxer shorts. It's a trend right now. Okay, so many women would wear boxer shorts, like, or, like man underwear in general. I have no clue why but that's like a trend to

Abdullah Najjar 44:21
like, men's boxers being worn by women. Yes. Okay. And

Veronika Becher 44:25
even like female like companies would you know like for female luxury, like, companies will produce them? No. And that's also like a really misconception of genders. Whatever is happening there that people just know. Yeah, I don't know. There's so many like topics like that one like okay, there's a difference between genders and now we're switching it up. So

Abdullah Najjar 44:47
like boxers like literally, like not the ones I would see in the gym, right?

Veronika Becher 44:52
No, like underwear. Okay, I don't know why don't ask me. but apparently he's more comfortable never tried it just does like Sure. Yeah. Yeah,

Abdullah Najjar 45:05
I don't. Yeah, I mean, I mean, with all of these say, like anything anybody wears, you can sense a signal. Like you can you can tell from if someone is intentional about what they're wearing. I mean, if you're like, if you have like, if you are going to an exam with PJs, I'm sure you know, I mean, obviously, like, slept Okay. Anybody I know seriously criticize people. I mean, obviously, if someone had that on, you can fact tell that. Yeah, I mean, they just put something on. It's not like they worked on the color coordination. The you know,

Veronika Becher 45:48
did maybe the socks match their

Abdullah Najjar 45:52
sweater? Maybe? Yeah, like my banana socks right here.

Veronika Becher 45:56
Random so random. Okay. Just talking about that. But, yeah,

Abdullah Najjar 46:01
I mean, essentially, I mean, whenever you can look, if you go around campus, honestly. I mean, I do the same thing. I mean, well, I don't know if you do it. But I mean, if I'm walking right now, you know, from on campus, just walking around.

Veronika Becher 46:14
I don't I don't have a car.

Abdullah Najjar 46:17
You know, your car just to go, you know, just go to tally or whatever. And you see people just, you know, like, generally just one, one. Look, you don't sense that there's a lot of disparity when it comes to clothing choice. Like you sense that there's a trend, you know, everybody's just comfy. Everybody's got like, I don't know who design or something like that. And again, I just want to be clear, I'm not judging anybody. I'm just saying that when you have like, if you just pan across the room, you will notice that no one kind of stands out in a way because of how they all look uniform. Most of the stuff that they're wearing just very similar. Right. I don't know if you notice that.

Veronika Becher 46:56
But yeah, it's like I think that's one of the biggest differences sometimes in Europe and in the United States. Yeah. I feel like the university spirit. My sense is so like, present in our daily lives here. Yeah. That people really feel for NC State. They want to wear the NC State merch. Yeah, I've never seen that actually, in Germany happen as much

Abdullah Najjar 47:21
as it happens in Europe either.

Veronika Becher 47:23
Like generally doesn't happen. The fact that people were so many T shirts there and they were so expensive. I don't even know where you get the money from. We're not talking about that stuff my transfer student showed on and that's the only thing out he stayed. Yeah, yeah, shame on me. But no, you're good one day. And I just feel like because you can wear like NC State merch or like, just hoodie. No one judges you and everyone is uniform. But in Europe, people, you always have that you have the urge to dress up. You have to do that. Yeah, if you're under dress, you will be underdressed and people will notice. But there was a certain threshold where you don't cross over it. And people might look where did you when you like go over the top or if you dress unconventionally. I would. For instance, I love blazers, or I used to love blazers, in high school in Old World blazers, to school, and high school. Okay, I was graduating, I was a senior in junior year, and I was wearing blazers. And don't worry, I was not initially going into business. So it has nothing to do with being a business student. But I just feel like it just feels more put together. But then I feel like maybe Russian roots coming through and we dress up over the top. Oh, like if you go to it's a big thing is a big cultural difference. If you go to a wedding, and we're drifting away from the genders, but if you go to the wedding, people dress with high heels that are so high like you don't know how you can even walk on them with them and then dresses that are super short, really glittery like colors are really bright. And then you go to Germany and sometimes people go to you know local weddings in their normal daily attire and I'm like shame on you. But also because I think it's weird. And then you know going back to like genders one thing that people always expect us the woman to dress up nice and the guy can be whatever. Yeah, like maybe there are cultures where I feel like it's not the case. I've seen it before I really appreciate it when guys actually can wear a proper like suit. And it's a nice suit. Yeah,

Abdullah Najjar 49:35
I tailor like like That's good.

Veronika Becher 49:38
The muscle good style Okay no, it just makes me like wow, he actually put effort into it or maybe the thing that is also nice that I would have here is deodorant for some guys. Yeah, you know perfume you don't have to but you know certain things so we'll be just nice. Yeah. Stuff Yeah, I feel like I've seen Oh, during Valentine's Day, we did anything. There was a, we wouldn't just like to restaurant and I see those like, Girl with a guy and the girls like dress up all fancy with a dress on everything. And the guy's just like, with this normal plain shirt, shirt, like white t shirt with something. Oh, and I was telling this, like, you know, you know, Max, I know, I was like, I'm like, hey, what do you think like, and he said, Oh, by the way in the US, he dressed up.

Abdullah Najjar Speaker 50:32
She did not dress up and scratch the surface

Veronika Becher 50:37
yet. Like you see the two worlds, it's the same in beauty centers. And that's what I feel like. That's something that I feel like it's a bad thing that we have sometimes a set society, it's the expectation the woman should look really pretty. Yeah, and the guy can look like he doesn't matter. And there's a Russian saying there's like, people like say, but also comes from there's a, I think, a much smaller male population than it is a Russian one. Freshman one, if you are one that's busy. And so there's like, I don't know, 10 million something I like put it up. I don't remember the exact number, but less a male like counterparts. And just imagine like the huge number of like, how many people are just like doing more just female? Wow, gross. That's the reason why people dress up. That's the reason also why the whole beauty industry so high, the competition is just high. There's like so many women that all dressed up, you have to dress up otherwise, I don't know, you would never be noticed. And so this whole thing is a guy needs to be just a little bit prettier than the monkey. Oh my goodness. But the woman needs to be pretty. And I'm like, if you expect that you are looking a little bit prettier than a monkey than I can be. And just crazy. or something? Yeah, I don't know. Nothing is like yeah, pretty clean shirts. But

Abdullah Najjar 52:11
no, really, people notice when you dress and I'm not saying you but like when some like you dress up? People really notice. I mean, you could tell. And I know for a fact that, you know, because the competition is not very fierce when it comes to my male peers. Like if I put on something that is literally above average, just like 1%

Abdullah Najjar Speaker 52:33
Yeah, like, it's so notice I miss you.

Veronika Becher 52:37
Okay, nothing's afraid boys. But unless you fall on suit wise, that's like, we know you're trying to get into Fred. Yeah, good luck. And

Abdullah Najjar 52:48
that's, and that's another thing where, you know, I'm sure you, you have something to say about that. But the, like the cap, if it's like flipped to the, you know, if it's like flipped in a way. It really gives a lot of like, to me at least straight male. It gives the impression that someone is immature. You know?

Veronika Becher 53:11
If the oh my gosh, I just learned that Alicia couple days ago. Like, I got corrected. Don't say cap say head. We don't say that. Even though it's grammatically right. I just say my brain was just like shutting down like what we're talking about. Like oh, my god, like, shame on me. But that's fine.

Abdullah Najjar Speaker 53:32
But

Veronika Becher 53:33
you know, if it's rotated like you think it's like, yeah, it sort

Abdullah Najjar 53:37
of gives me the impression that someone is somehow immature. They might not be. But it's like the energy that that's giving, you know, like, I

Veronika Becher 53:45
was never thinking about that. I always think about hip hop. Okay.

Abdullah Najjar 53:50
Well, I mean, if you look at hip hop, like if you go back the gangsta rap, like really, era of gangster rap, people had just baggy jeans, just baggy,

Veronika Becher 54:01
but that's a trend right now. Besides people noticing this in college because here the trends are not coming through besides active wear that's the thing

Abdullah Najjar 54:10
Yeah. But I mean it's not a trend. I mean, I don't see it as attractive wear baggy, baggy, like

Veronika Becher 54:15
baggy clothes. So it is like I feel like all the 90s and 80s like it just a rotation of styles and fashion that comes back from year to year. And I just feel like all these baggy clothes are right no style. you'd notice it mostly in like female fashion. Okay, because I feel like skinny jeans were such a trendsetter for years. And now people are like no skinny jeans anymore. We will only go for really like, you know, white pants or whatever.

Abdullah Najjar 54:49
But this is one of extremes. Right? You're talking about skinny jeans, very tight, baggy pants, but that's a trend if I know but there is a middle ground like you can still find like a straight fit. Like you recognize straight fit, you can

Veronika Becher 55:01
but it's a trend is really a trend. Like, it's like people go for it. It's like the whole with go to secondhand shops. It's a trend. It's like, you know, it's not about I don't think people even think about the sustainable part as much as sometimes even a trend. Finally, a unique piece that no one else would wear, like wear something that used to be really trendy in the beginning of 2000 years or 90s or whatever you want to go for 2010. And so, I do see these trends, even for guys coming back, but I feel like for guys right now, it's just shifting depends on what country you're in. There's a different trend different fashion trends,

Abdullah Najjar 55:43
right? Yeah. But I mean, maybe we're talking about different, maybe a different interpretation of what baggy means. I think for me something that is

Veronika Becher 55:54
like, give me a rapper, a

Abdullah Najjar 55:56
rapper. Okay. Have you seen the you recognize Tupac? Yes, of course I do. Okay.

Speaker 1 56:04
I didn't know. I didn't know you go back to you. No, no, I

Veronika Becher 56:07
can also go to jazz but it has nothing to do with that.

Abdullah Najjar 56:11
But I mean, essentially, like he and his clique his group. If you look at the music videos, it's just that you know, the pants. They barely hang. They're barely hanging. No belts. They're

Veronika Becher 56:24
not they're like like that. You just feel like the next moment he steps is just gonna slide down. Yeah, this is why Nelly comes through with it's getting hot in here. Let's pick up your clothes. That was an interesting

Abdullah Najjar 56:42
but I mean, look, it's pretty obvious. Like when you look at the video, like even down at like the, you know, I guess the hem of the Pensacola went up to him. Well, you know, when it reaches like the ankle area, like it's just so like, baggy. And it's like it

Veronika Becher 56:56
doesn't trend. But I'm serious about that. Was that I mean, I don't see that as it trend returns. That's the whole story. There's not even one that maybe there are some trends that are really new. But I feel like many fashion styles are just like recycled old styles. Yeah, come back. I hope no one like on this whoever is if anyone ever was like judge me like, dare your divine. You're not even a textile major. I'm sorry.

Abdullah Najjar 57:23
Like attractive in general. Like, I mean, if he's attractive. Ooh, well, that's the thing. I mean, I don't really see that as

Veronika Becher 57:34
well. What about female? Like, if like, I'm sitting here with like, bowls like, like emoji?

Abdullah Najjar 57:40
Oh, no. I mean, well, this is maybe a matter of preference for me. I personally, as a guy, I wouldn't wear ripped jeans. I'm not sure if I don't see myself. fitting that sort of look doesn't suit as much as I think. A look. I think a Baray wouldn't suit me. I bought him re once I put it on French cabaret. I didn't like him. Yeah, I didn't. I didn't like it. Bring up the French here. But But ripped jeans. I think for females. To me at least. It depends on how much ripping is there. Right. No, like, there's a level like you. I think it gets too excessive where like, half or like the entire thing.

Veronika Becher 58:26
You know, the all the likes are just exposed. I've seen that before. It was like,

Abdullah Najjar 58:31
yeah, that gets too much to for me. I mean, it's like, I really liked

Veronika Becher 58:36
okay, this isn't maybe for the personal preference. But the nice thing about these ripped jeans is when it gets really hot, but it's not too hot for shorts yet in the morning. What's like, still cold. Oh, yeah, you don't freeze as much. But during the day, you get enough air the reason why you were to begin with but

Abdullah Najjar 58:58
yeah, that's like a, I think a very decent level for me. Like, you know, the level of, I guess the level of rip spoke. I don't know how Yeah, it makes sense. Yeah, we get it. But but but I think sometimes it gets it's just it gets like too much. You know, even with with like, like revealing like skin in general. Yeah. Sometimes it gets like, even for a guy like it just if you reveal too much. I guess it gets less attractive. Like if it's too too much. Okay. I don't know. I'm not.

Veronika Becher 59:33
I have a question though. Okay, it's more controversial question is like alright, you know, when I have to actually know I have two questions. Sure. Question number one. Question. Number one, when girls go to parties, you know, we're both over 21 So everything is fine. You know, when girls go to like parties, I don't think you're like, you're not really the party your party.

Abdullah Najjar 1:00:00
I attended like to but but so

Veronika Becher 1:00:04
you went to some right? Yeah. Yeah, it was we have to teach that. But now that I'm 40 Gold time, I just love to dance without alcohol. Just Yeah, fun fact. If How do you think women should dress? And how much should they reveal? To begin with?

Abdullah Najjar 1:00:24
Oh, that's a good one. That's a good one. Do

Veronika Becher 1:00:25
you think if they reveal too much, they just try to like find a guy or is it just a thing? Like, oh, you respect? It's just a fashion statement?

Abdullah Najjar 1:00:32
Yeah. Wow, amazing questions? Well, at some point, with every, with every, like, clothing choice, whatever it is, at some point, you will reach a level where you're like, you're trying too hard. You know? So whether it be like a guy or a girl, if it's like, too much skin,

Veronika Becher 1:00:55
like you see everything. Yeah.

Abdullah Najjar 1:00:59
Maybe it's like, you almost see everything. It's like, Hmm, I probably wouldn't find that very attractive. But it's like a moderate sort of level of exposure. like, Sure, I'd love to be comfortable. No,

Veronika Becher 1:01:16
I'm actually I'm open.

Abdullah Najjar 1:01:19
Yeah, so if it's like, if I can see a level of exposure, that's like, that's so bad, right? Like, and not so much like, not too much cleavage. If it's like too much. It's like, I can tell that, you know, I guess this girl is really trying too hard. But if you know if you can see some some of that, I think it's you know, it's attractive. And if she had too much makeup on, that would also be okay,

Veronika Becher 1:01:47
you just wrapping up all these topics?

Abdullah Najjar 1:01:51
Questions on skin? Yeah. Skin expert was? Yeah. How much? Can you reveal? I think really, I think there's if it's too much skin, that just becomes unattractive. Even though you might think that yeah, I mean, males would really love to see, you know, the

Veronika Becher 1:02:10
hope of exposed. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it makes sense. There's

Abdullah Najjar 1:02:15
gotta keep a little bit of like, it has to be some sort of mystery there. Right? Like, you don't want to show every, like, that's how you some like you, you attract someone it's like, I want to see more. What if I already saw the entire thing? More? I want to see, right. I

Veronika Becher 1:02:35
want to see more. No, this is what the makeup said, Thank you just like a cover up your face. So in the morning, when you wake up about makeup, he doesn't remember, you know, remember who we are. And he doesn't even know who you are.

Abdullah Najjar 1:02:49
I mean, people I don't think guys go to a club to want to, like have a long, like sustainable relationship. So essentially, I don't think you will go to a club and find a woman who's not revealing skin like it's hard, right? Because it's you're sending a signal like even I don't know what the guy equivalent is. But they're also sent trying to send a signal, you know, a sexual signaling. I mean, it's very, you know, it's very, I think, obvious. Like, I think I'm seeing something that's kind of obvious, like you go into club because at some point, maybe there's a chance that you want to end up hooking up with someone. But it's not always the case. It's not like everybody that's going to dance that's what they want to do. You know, irrational

Veronika Becher 1:03:36
to think everyone not everyone thinks this way. Exactly.

Abdullah Najjar 1:03:40
But there's a number of people that really go to a club in hopes that at that at night, they're gonna get lucky. You know, make sense? Yeah. So again, it goes back to what you were asking about skin. Yeah, if it gets too much you can tell it someone slick trying too hard. Yeah, yeah. But they're what really like revealing some skin is attractive. Like there's no question about that.

Veronika Becher 1:04:08
I just like really off topic but they both are and you know, when back in the middle not even middle ages. It's like like Coca Cola and like whatever you call it, like all these when women with wear like gloves. Yeah, you know the whole thing like when you take off your gloves I will be like, Oh, this inappropriate socially.

Abdullah Najjar 1:04:32
Like very royal like, need doesn't

Veronika Becher 1:04:35
have to be was just a trend like it was I mean, if you could afford these things, of course, okay, since but it's just like exposing skin like off your hand who sexually like really that? Yeah, but there's more to that than even like, you know, the fan that you open up to Lake good air. You can't call a fan just

Abdullah Najjar 1:04:56
Well, I don't know if that's what they call it, but I know exactly what you're referring okay, like you kind of spread it out. Yes. And then you start Yes. Even

Veronika Becher 1:05:04
like the way you would spread it out, you would put, you know, you know, right natural signaling, right? Yeah. Yes. It's like the way it is. You would say something. Oh, you know, come on. And our real my head. But yeah, this is like how I fit it should just start. Um, but wait,

Abdullah Najjar 1:05:24
you had two questions one

Veronika Becher 1:05:25
Yeah, in the second. Yes, livid crazy. The second question. I'm actually still like, in the process. But it's more like, you know, some more, maybe not a funny story. You know how female would like oh, I dress up and reveal. And then this guy's like, yeah, you asked for it that I would like, try to do something with you or like, because you decide to wear revealing clothes. And I'm curious. What is your opinion about the congenital? Like, would you say that? Because of female dresses the way she does? She attracts guys. And then it's kind of her fault for attracting guys and guys abusing the relationship they could have for? Yeah, not?

Abdullah Najjar 1:06:10
That's a good question. So I think for starters, I would say it's absolutely the guy's fault. Because obviously you can ask him, you know? No, seriously, like if you had something. I don't know. Like, if you were walking on campus with a bikini, I'm just giving like a very random example. I'm sure he thought today,

Veronika Becher 1:06:30
bikini people. It was apparently so warm. And they were just laying out on the grass next to like some, you know, Sun sunbathing. Yeah. And I was like, that's crazy.

Abdullah Najjar 1:06:40
I mean, you can like if you had that on. It's like, okay, so you had that on? What, you know, if I were to approach you, and I would want to start something. It's different than making an unwanted advance, like bothering you. Like, if I approach you, and I see you and I say, Hey, what's your name? You know, and you get the sense that I'm trying to ask you out. If you if you ever say no, if you rejected me, I mean, that's it. I mean, there's no, like, I don't have to push it. Like, obviously, you got I got an answer. You know, um, but I think it's like, I think your question can, like, can be tackled in different ways. So this is one way where I would say, if it's, if you had something on that sent, maybe a sexual signal, I think the proper thing, I guess, for guy to typically, I would say that the worst thing is thinking that hey, you're asking for it. Like, that's the worst case scenario.

Veronika Becher 1:07:41
Okay. Worst case? Yeah, that's

Abdullah Najjar 1:07:43
like the worst worst case scenario. I think, the best case, sometimes signals can be misconstrued. You know, maybe, you know, it can't happen. Like it can happen with anything other

Veronika Becher 1:07:55
than clothes. Like literally just the way you act with someone. Oh, yeah, she likes me. Yeah, you're like, No, she just is friendly.

Abdullah Najjar 1:08:06
Yeah, these are these can be sometimes mixed up. So I think the best case would be just, you know, approach the person have a conversation. Will Do you know, they want to go out? And if she says, no, no, that's it. That's I think, the best case, but yeah, when you were talking about? Like, yeah, revealing, like, what's my opinion of revealing clothes? Is that what part of the question like?

Veronika Becher 1:08:30
Yeah, that's why I kind of like, added it, you know, like, what happens when, you know, if I'll be like dressing, I don't know, almost revealing everything. That makes sense. Like, how would be like, is it something that you ask for it? And then it's okay for guy to approach you and be like, Well, you asked for it as your own problem. You should not dress this way. Be more conservative.

Abdullah Najjar 1:08:57
Yeah, that is a big problem. I think the big problems with the guy, obviously, I mean, because, you know, obviously it's freedom, like you can wear, it's freedom of choice. Like who cares? Like, you know, it's your choice. You made that decision. And it's your decision. It's like, I shouldn't have a say, and what you decided to put on? That's one thing. The other thing is that if it's, I think what happens usually, and this is not a defense of the guys, but I'm just trying to understand their perspective here. I guess what happens is that they would associate that sort of level of revealing clothes with prostitutes, like probably the worst with Think about that. So that you're sort of with that level with that clothing. You could be attracting that category of men that really cannot separate the image that they conjure of a prostitute that has so much revealing clothes on with someone who just He happens to like that sort of style. You see what I'm saying? So that that is with that choice of clothing, you could be attracting that demographic of people, men, who will see that as a signal that it's on, you know, and again, I want to say that it's definitely the guy's fault, like keeping in your pants, you know, like,

Veronika Becher 1:10:23
oh, guy, you know, lesson of the day. It's a Friday night, right? Please, do you guys. If you go out and party.

Abdullah Najjar 1:10:38
Yeah, but I don't think any guy that goes, Well, I would say from experience, most guys that go partying, they hope that at the end of the night, they're gonna get lucky. That is the objective. You know, like you wouldn't go partying, to start a conversation and maybe build it up from there, meet some other time soon. Start a relationship. Like, I don't think there's a I would bet my money on the fact that I think 90% of those guys do that. Yeah, they're not they're just want like an in and out type of scenario just to hook up. Yeah. And, you know, generally as a PERT, like, personally, I don't. I I never did that. And I'm, I'm not trying to ask for credit or whatnot. This is just me talking about my personality and how I orient my life. I never, I don't like that. Personally, I wouldn't even put myself in that situation. Um, but yeah, substantial number of people do. And again, I'm not trying to judge, but that's just the way it is. I'm calling it as I see it. But that's the you know, the male perspective. I'm interested to know about, you know, female perspective and where they stand. I mean, we kind of touched on it a little bit on like clothes and clothes, and you know, why maybe they would do that. Is it a fashion statement? Is it a statement of trying to attract people like, what is the female perspective here? Honestly, I

Veronika Becher 1:12:06
think we're dressed for other female people. Females? Yeah. That's how it feels like sometimes, especially here

Abdullah Najjar 1:12:15
in the US. Yeah. Okay. Because

Veronika Becher 1:12:17
I feel like you compete in a way, not in a good way all the time. It depends. Not all the time, but you continue to but I feel like there's even the study that women would more likely look at a woman than a man and not because they're gay. Or they like you check out a woman more likely as a female like Bennis, a male. Like, I just see, like, over like, you Okay, on that note, I'm not by sorry. But it's like, like a woman just passes by and just look behind. And you know, the thing that you mentioned, the guy would do, I think girl students more often. And the reason it's not the thing you think like, oh, sexually, oh, my gosh, was like more. Oh, these jeans look good on her. Like, are you checking out her style, the way she looks like, and in general, I feel like most female like, I don't know. Females would agree, I think feels aesthetically more pleasing. But I'm not saying that guys don't look good,

Abdullah Najjar 1:13:30
really. But that's actually something I want to talk about more but I agree with.

Veronika Becher 1:13:34
And I think that's one of the reasons and that's a misconception where people think, Oh, you're definitely into girls. And I'm like, No, I cannot see myself dating a girl, if that makes sense. Like I can I just don't see myself doing that. Yeah, I feel more attractive towards guys. But I still feel like when it comes to the way the female body looks like, I feel like females are more attractive. And large. Yes, no, seriously. And so I feel like like females dress for females because we compete against each other and sometimes the guy doesn't even notice that we spend probably two hours in front of a mirror to get this makeup done. Or this hairstyle or this one outfit that we change 10 times in a row but our female will actually appreciate it first of all, she would probably notice what you did she probably knows even how you did it. I don't know maybe I'm going over but yeah, I got it I feel like you compete more and it can be good thing and and bad thing. You compete in the bad way because it's like Oh, I see all these like females in front of me and next to me and I know how to act and how to look like and I need to match them like and I need you better as conflict competition. So it looks prettier. And then this whole thing where if I'm not really direct, and I'm giving you a really like, superficial like compliment about oh my gosh, you look so pretty. And you don't actually mean that That's the thing. So, yeah, I'm touching on different things. But yeah, and to go in the whole thing well of like girls support girls, sometimes it's fake. But it really depends on where you which way you go. Like, there are also I know many females that genuinely support each other. And I think that's something we really need in society. Let's be honest. And I also feel like you dress because you don't always compete, but you just want to dress nice for yourself. It's the way you dress can enhance your confidence. Oh, I think your hands so much the way you feel about yourself the way you track people towards yourself, you know, you don't these people are you like, okay, technically, I'll give them the five out of 10. But for some reason, everyone wants to date this person. And you're like, why? And the reason is the attitude, the way they feel about themselves, the way they confident the way they enter the room. And they're like, boom, everyone just looks at me not pretty. And I'm not saying that it's bad. I'm just saying there's so many things in it's literally tying down back to makeup even. Because to bring it back like the topic that we didn't touch on. I'd love

Abdullah Najjar 1:16:15
to talk about.

Veronika Becher 1:16:16
I think so many females put makeup on for their own confidence, and also to look young or the way they want to look to express themselves. It's almost like an arch to a certain extent. I wear makeup, but I wear makeup more for reasons like routine. This sounds weird, but it's like, it's not even about the guy. I'm like, Oh my gosh, this guy will probably like my makeup. But it's more sometimes guys don't even notice I have makeup on. That's like the fact and girls will see it and they're like, Oh, you put makeup on? Yeah, and it's just I feel like putting on makeup as for me like a routine of putting myself together for the day and being ready and to go it's routine every single day. I wake up a shower, and I put makeup on I dress I go out, right is every single day the same routine and I make my bed that's

Abdullah Najjar Speaker 1:17:07
gonna give you pause for the bed for all the parts. Yeah, no, this is

Abdullah Najjar 1:17:14
I totally respect that I really going back to your point of like the clothing choice. Yes, I don't feel like I'm, well here's here's a I can give you a quick example here. There was one time I remember thinking this semester, I only wore a hoodie and sweatpants twice.

Veronika Becher 1:17:33
I'm here like if you see me for hoodie and sweatpants because of dance practice. That's the reason and I'm like I couldn't change. I get it.

Abdullah Najjar 1:17:43
I remember one time I showed up to the like so I was in my apartment. And I realized that I forgot my adapter. Here I forgot it here. It was like so I had just put on a hoodie. I put on sweatpants and I just caught the bus. I came straight here and then I on the way back I pass through I go through to tally and on campus I find people had like an event they were distributing water and chips. So I had my hoodie on I had my sweatpants on and I walked a tally with like a bottle of water and chips

Veronika Becher 1:18:24
was like a normal American

Abdullah Najjar 1:18:27
and so on. And I walked past my friends and I say hi and they're like completely surprised they've never seen what's happened okay

know the completely saw a different person and I if I don't dress up if I don't keep my you know if I don't put some levels Yeah, almost. I feel like shit. Like really? I

Veronika Becher 1:18:55
feel the same way. Like yes, it's like

Abdullah Najjar 1:18:59
these are German these are German pants. Oh, thank

Veronika Becher 1:19:01
you for not checking the tags. Okay, man, Germany everyday not shaming you. They're probably not to be honest. That might be German, but

Abdullah Najjar 1:19:11
they really are German pants. Are they comfortable? Very comfy. I bought two pairs when I was in Libya. I am being

Veronika Becher 1:19:18
honest here. I feel like that's the thing I try to explain to some guys here are jeans for some reason I'm more comfortable. And the reason why people put up the store even wear jeans is because your jeans are like not stretchy enough or not comfortable. I don't know how to explain it. Yeah, but they're just different. And so the jeans

Speaker 1 1:19:36
at home, you know, they're way better. Yeah.

Veronika Becher 1:19:41
You know, too many off topic jokes and one about my dad. Dad jokes Oh crazy. On a different level. My dad when he moved from Russia, you know, the first experience of trackpants and Russia. You know what you think about that? That was my dad. Yeah. He was like, he was like a cool boxer. Like he was boxing in college. He'd be like that, but yeah, whatever. He stopped his career, but yeah, long story short, and he came here and he's like, I'm never gonna wear jeans. And my mom's like, try these folds. And never really she just liked it. Now, I don't see mints like besides it hope they can slip into the whole like, I feel like just German jeans or just differently made I guess. I don't know what they probably do. The same manufacturer is you know, like it's same place. It's just like American jeans and German jeans separate is different. Like you don't rooms. Never mix it together.

Abdullah Najjar 1:20:43
I love these. I also have Italian jeans. Oh my god. Carrera. Carrera is one of my favorite Italian brands. I don't know

Veronika Becher 1:20:53
this brand. I'm sorry. Shame on you.

Speaker 1 1:20:59
Blame deflecting blame. But no, seriously, I

Abdullah Najjar 1:21:05
really going back to we were talking about clothing I and that's not something that I always was never always like that, you know, like, paying a lot attention to what I put on. And, you know, there were times when Yeah, I didn't pay a lot attention.

Abdullah Najjar Speaker 1:21:24
I just put on whatever. But

Abdullah Najjar 1:21:26
really, people truly notice. And I think, you know, one of my, like, one of my friends really set this to me. He's a friend. He you know, group of guys. At one point, he told me that all of us like you dress better than all of us combined. admitted he was like, you know, you can see us like, honestly, I'm telling you the truth. Like you can see us and you can look around, you know, like you will notice, yeah, they're very comfortable about this sort of American, you know,

Veronika Becher 1:22:03
I like it though, sometimes, I know that we just the whole time, bad, you know, talking about American style, and so on. I think it's also good, though, because people don't expect you to dress. And sometimes it gives you a little bit less pressure on you half dresses and specific, right, right. You can always go over the top, but they will less likely judge you for wearing only sweatpants. And I don't know what your background is, you know, and how much money you have and what you like to wear. It gives you the choice of get one NC State t shirt and wear it every single day. And then once my pants you can get anywhere, and then you're good for the next five years or four years, whatever. But I also sometimes, really, I was okay. I had a different culture shock, a different culture. It's also about dressing up. Yeah, it's about business fairs, business affairs, like business fairs. Business fair. You know, in college. Yeah. They were like, you know, business casual skirt. I wrote there. And I was, you know, still decently close, you know, business like, but I felt sometimes even under dressed. Really in comparison to all the people there. Why? Because I felt like everyone. There was just so high fashion dressed even guys. And I don't even know the only thing I'm gonna judge is guys, please don't wear a white socks under black pants. And black shoes. That was something that expose them for being American. But everything else. I don't know, people will just dress so well. And I feel like European business casual is less stress what I see here, it's here, it's a much higher level, almost like business business completely. Maybe that you don't have a tie. That's the only difference. And then up in business casual is more sometimes like a turtleneck. Oh, not that I was wearing that. But turtleneck and maybe let's put a blazer on. That's it in this business casual. Yeah. But here it's like, almost feeling like two extremes. One day if I meet a person who's never dressed up and only in their sweatpants, and then I see them in a business pair. I don't recognize them. Oh, yeah, it's but it's always these two extremes. And I felt like oh my gosh, I need to actually sub more like I need to go for it. And then there are events where they like dress up nicely, and people will arrive really with like, barely any business clothes. Military we could go. I was, you know the panel I was talking about Yeah. We had like an IBD that's my program I'm in and we had like a panel for incoming freshmen and I was the only one dressed and completed Is this close? And was joking about how at the panel I stood out as the European person.

Abdullah Najjar 1:25:05
Oh, wow. Yeah, it's the dress European. But I always think

Veronika Becher 1:25:09
like dress over the top and dress under dress. The only thing where I'm gonna say don't dress over the top is when you go hiking with high heels. Yeah.

Abdullah Najjar Speaker 1:25:18
That's That's suicide, right?

Abdullah Najjar 1:25:20
No, never. Yeah, I would. Yeah. Never. Like it's better to look overdressed than underdressed right? I think yeah,

Veronika Becher 1:25:28
it is. A no judge you for not coming to my wedding in proper clothes. I will not. It's gonna be Yes, I will kick you out. It's gonna be the bodyguard is gonna be like the fashion stylist.

Abdullah Najjar 1:25:44
The Bodyguard is a fashion stylist.

Veronika Becher 1:25:47
And he's gonna check your clothes. And if you don't follow the normal like business casual or business clothes here. You're not allowed to be here. You can leave like that. No, I love you guys, but told me I had old find clothes. Apparently people shopping my clothes in my closet. Like these past like, days weeks. I'm not kidding. My My best friend is like, I need a shirt for this event. Like what type of like measurements? What do you need? Taylor? No, seriously? No, like, okay, I can give you this shirt. This shirt and this shirt. These are all set. And no, I'm not kidding. Wow. In the same way of me being like, my friend asked me like, I let's go to the gym. And I'm like, to the gym. I don't have gym clothes here. And my friends. Like, you can come over. I have this prize this. This, this bunk beds. And finally you're gonna wear sweatpants. And you're like, Okay, I'm not ready for this sweatshop to be American.

Abdullah Najjar 1:26:51
But I mean, like, going back to your point, I think even like, if I go to the gym, and, you know, I have gym clothes on. I don't think people would recognize like, people didn't recognize I saw people that I knew. And you're like, Whoa, what happened? Like, yeah, I'm at the gym. I'm not gonna fit all like, you know, clothes proper were like, I'm gonna put on gym clothes, you know? So they're like, whoa, that's very different.

Veronika Becher 1:27:13
I actually have than a question and a new topic. Oh, and it like kind of case. It's like short hair and women. Oh,

Speaker 1 1:27:20
my gosh, it's attractive or not? Yeah. Because

Veronika Becher 1:27:23
when I put my hair up, people are like, who are you? Like, I just play volleyball. Sorry, I'm not a good volleyball player. But I just played volleyball. We had like dance practice, and I put my hair up and then who is this person? I only know her like Open hair and like, Oh, time, and that's weird. And I just want to have you like, opinion on short hair in general. Like, like hairstyles and nice. Yeah, let's go both genders. I guess that works. Well,

Abdullah Najjar 1:27:56
okay, give me just a second. I gotta use the restroom. It's it's just getting to run to the restroom. It's gotta run my reminds me of like a Joe Rogan episode where he literally had to use the restroom mid recording.

Veronika Becher 1:28:06
It was like, it's like when you examine you like, I need to drink because someone asked you a question. You're like, I need to drink.

Abdullah Najjar 1:28:16
I wanted to say this, but I didn't want to interrupt you earlier. But since we're starting this new question, I gotta Yeah, just let me run to the restroom real quick. And then yeah, but okay. So I Yeah, the question about

about shorting it. Short hair. Yeah. No, I love

Veronika Becher 1:28:38
your experience in life. Right. What are you doing on a Friday night? Well, recording podcasts, getting invited ones, and then being 20 minutes early here.

Abdullah Najjar Speaker 1:28:49
Okay. 10 hours late.

Speaker 1 1:28:56
But wait, wait. So your question was about short hair. Okay. Yeah.

Veronika Becher 1:29:00
And like long short hair for female and male counterparts. It doesn't matter. Whatever.

Abdullah Najjar 1:29:06
Okay. Okay, so I think some girls can really rock it short hair, like, can really just look really good. Like, Gosh, it looks good. But it's a gamble. Yeah, no, I really, I think I really think it's a gamble. Like it's never You can't not everyone can get it right. You know, I had so my extra often had short hair. Yeah.

Veronika Becher 1:29:38
You know, an ex girlfriend was crazy. No, I'm just getting so many things. Like this fine. It gets crazy.

Abdullah Najjar 1:29:47
I had to give a real life example. I mean, yeah. Appreciate is. That was yeah, it was attractive. But not the again, not so many people can pull it off and I think little faces can pull it off. Yeah. Because also like the face structure plays a role in that

Veronika Becher 1:30:05
body structure. I feel like oh boy social body like fear, you know? Yeah, I think it's a mix of everything. Yeah. You know, so character, character.

Abdullah Najjar 1:30:13
Yeah. It's like the way you carry yourself and how you rock that cut and all of that. That really plays a huge role. And I think yeah, for me, a lot of girls I did find attractive had short hair.

Veronika Becher 1:30:28
But anyone has a crush on this guy. Cut your hair?

Abdullah Najjar 1:30:33
No, I'm just saying like, I did find a lot of girls which were

Abdullah Najjar Speaker 1:30:42
no. That's the answer you asked me.

Veronika Becher 1:30:50
So someone you've embraced is not the

Abdullah Najjar Speaker 1:30:53
entire North

Veronika Becher 1:31:00
climate change is real.

Abdullah Najjar Speaker 1:31:06
No, we took more than just the eyes.

Veronika Becher 1:31:10
Like apparently, oh, your interview started with you know, make it off the microphone. You don't need to choke right? You have the Holy Spirit on the back. sighs

Abdullah Najjar 1:31:22
No, no more of that make you

Veronika Becher 1:31:25
think Foley? Everyone's just confused at this point. You just tell people like, you know, advice of the year? Yeah, maybe in your second they make a good microphone to be close. Yeah,

Abdullah Najjar 1:31:41
that's it's one of the highlights of, you know, being a podcaster here.

Veronika Becher 1:31:46
Is it the first time that you're laughing? And you know, I hope I hope, shame no,

Abdullah Najjar 1:31:53
no, I have to I have I have to loosen up with my guests. Like I can't be too.

Veronika Becher 1:31:58
Oh, so you usually don't

Abdullah Najjar 1:32:01
know, I'm I'm a very I'm not like a formal stiff guy. No, I have I crack jokes. It's like, yeah, you gotta have a sense. Yeah, drive, you know,

Veronika Becher 1:32:11
German dry jokes.

Abdullah Najjar 1:32:12
It's like you said you can there's a range you can go dark hue. But yeah, so short hair. For some people does look good. But long hair. Yeah. I mean, generally, like if it's, if it's if it's not, yeah, so I think maybe here is where I maybe that might be personal preference. But I always like, like, a not so like a messy but yeah, that was weird. But um, yeah,

Veronika Becher 1:32:45
what was weird, the messy bun was liking a mess. Actually, that's a compliment for all the girls out there because I think it's a comfortable, like, I don't know how to make it messy. Because it's like there's that's that's, like, irony about it. It needs to be messy, but still pretty,

Abdullah Najjar 1:33:04
right? It's like the perfect harmony of like,

Veronika Becher 1:33:08
like, I didn't really stand in front of the mirror for 10 hours. But also this is so this is a messy bun. It's like a 10 minute thing. Maybe like a minute thing. Yeah, still looks pretty and cute. And for me, it's always the opposite. It's like, oh, looks pretty ugly. Oh, you need 10 hours. So to do that, really? You don't

Abdullah Najjar 1:33:24
have to and I think I mean, even long hair. Yeah. For me for girls. Yeah, it's attractive. Really? I mean, it is. Yeah. Sometimes even the way to the styling process of it is is you know, that also plays a role. Um, but yeah, no, I don't think that there's a lot of controversy in here with like the hair thing. I don't like I don't know how much time it takes for a girl to do her hair. I don't even depends on her hair. Uh huh.

Veronika Becher 1:33:59
I think it also depends on her like hair structure. Like if you have curls, yeah. Straight hair. So here's the thing I have to straight the mom

Abdullah Najjar 1:34:11
so here's the thing about Yeah, curls and straight hair like I I like both like I don't really discriminate much when it comes.

Veronika Becher 1:34:18
Because it really depends and depends I using heat did need some 1000 products so you curls look actually properly curly and not frizzy. Do you have just really thick hair or and then hair? What do you want to achieve? It's so many things I think it makes it complicated. Well my hair is I would say depends on the weather. Okay, so if it's like really rainy I get like many girls but I'm also I've wavy hair just an in between wavy hair. Yeah, yeah, like it's but there are days when they really straight out of nowhere. And I'm like not even trying. Interesting um, but I Getting like more wavy hair. And so my hair routine is really easy. It's called brushing through my hair. Oh my gosh.

Abdullah Najjar 1:35:09
I think I don't really Yeah, I don't think that like, guys really don't really focus too much on. Okay, well let me phrase no America and America Well, I mean even generally like I'm not like, I don't think guys are like focusing too much on like the nitty gritty details like if it you know, it's hair looks good on you and you know, like I appreciate the effort but at the same time, like I guess Yeah, we don't really focus too much on like, detail like

Veronika Becher 1:35:48
if isn't this a joke of a guy nice only to look a little bit prettier than a monkey? Yeah, it's literally watching society. Let's be honest, like, you know, you see this 10 You know, girl that this like a 10 out of 10 next to this guy who's a two? Ah, it's a fact. And I don't know if she's just settling down for it having her fiction story in our head. You know, you can change him. Yes. Yeah, I don't know. Or maybe he has money. That

Abdullah Najjar 1:36:19
could be one thing. Yeah. But okay, so you asked about short hair with guys. So I had long hair where? Yeah. Where like, I had like, really like locks going down into like my eyes. And I think that was more. Yeah, it looked very long. I mean,

Veronika Becher 1:36:44
I don't want to judge myself for all my life choices. You know, but we all do mistakes. No, I'm not joking.

Abdullah Najjar 1:36:50
I mean, like it was It wasn't like, I had like a bowl cut or bangs, but you know, when I brush it to decide, yeah, it fell. Fell down on your face. Yeah, yeah. But and then, you know, I never I don't know if that is commonly found attractive by girls. I don't? I don't know. I think it looked to me personally, I consider it more feminine.

Veronika Becher 1:37:15
Because I would disagree. I think what I don't know, am I interrupting? Or the West? Go ahead.

Abdullah Najjar 1:37:21
No. Well, I can answer like the other part of the question, then you can tell me what you think. Go ahead. But yeah, with long hair, so yeah, I had both experiences. Yeah, have long hair was long and yeah. Which so men? Like what I would find, like your question was like, What do I think of short and long hair? Yeah. It's hard. Honestly, for men. It's hard. Because some men have long hair that just looks so good. It's like, I look at Brad Pitt, for example. Gosh, that that looks good.

Veronika Becher 1:37:56
You call this like long hair. But yes. Wait, what?

Abdullah Najjar 1:37:59
What length? Are you considering your even longer? Like shoulder length? Yeah. Is that so? Yeah, Brad Pitt,

Veronika Becher 1:38:07
but breakfast is in between? and looks good. With that? Yeah. Whatever. He

Abdullah Najjar Speaker 1:38:11
or she whatever?

Abdullah Najjar Speaker 1:38:16
Gifted? Gifted?

Veronika Becher 1:38:18
I hope Yeah. But

Abdullah Najjar 1:38:21
But But generally, yeah, with, like, again, even with the with a face structure, like some faces, you have certain cuts that match like symmetry, you know, with the face structure, like the jawline, and how like the chin is structured. Like there are cuts that fit you their cuts don't fit you even with a beard, right. I think I don't think we talked about that. No, in fact, yeah, no. Yeah. I mean, it really does play a difference, you know? How like, is that the type of beard fits me? Does that work with the face that I have? Or like, am I cutting too deep into like the skin revealing the meat? Like some people will you know, when they're have like, I don't know, beard. Sometimes they cut way up into the skin. So it kind of feels like they have a double chin, for example, but it's just revealing too much meat. But they ruined it even though they don't have like a double chin. Like there are ways of really knowing what fits my face structure and how

Veronika Becher 1:39:23
to enhance it even right off follow trends and what people think yes, but rather what you like. It's the same with fashion going back to like, it's exactly the thing with this is a trend and this is a trend. Yeah, I will just never recommend people following trends if it doesn't fit you. Yeah, and I'm all saying you can all wear whatever you want or have like a hairstyle you want. It's rather sometimes if you do care about what society tells you. What is the best thing you can do is probably try to figure out what fits you personally and then try To find your style in the scalp, like what fits you, but they go back to like long hair. I think men look good with long hair have curly hair, especially I don't know for some reason. Yeah. In hair, the looks just well maintained. That's right. That's the problem clean. Like a lot of times I just feel like when I see you guys with long hair sometimes if it's like they never wash it, but they're just because greasy really fast. Sometimes if your structure is really like thin, or structure, it just looks like you're not put together. And if you're one of these guys, cut your hair short, like you'd rather look more put together with shorter hair than with long hair that just looks like greasy like you have never showered and I think that's what puts off girls soft. Yeah, it's not that they look more female. I don't think guys look more female. I have a friend here with a good stage. Yes, wonderful curls. Like, they look amazing. Like, I don't even know, I think he's taking care of his curls better than any girl. I know. So far, almost like, I mean, I'm exaggerating, but and that's the thing. I feel like just take care of your hair. And then same for I think girls look really good for short hair. But again, I agree with you depends how they, how their face structure is the character. Whatever, like there's another version saying oh my gosh, it's like, the longer the hair the smaller the waist. Oh, like the because it goes back from like Middle Ages. And like even more like women used to not cut their hair in it's like a beauty center. So if we long hair, yeah, in the side, the longer the hair, you would breed them. And that's the thing, right? You know, we have think about traditional Russian like costumes, and they call that one braid. Or two braids. That's the thing. That's the reason like they thought that, you know, you look pretty like your waist. Look, it's not as it does look like, for some reason smaller. It just like the way your attention trips from your hair down. Like because your hair is longer. Yeah, it's also kind of an illusion, the way your body type looks like interesting. And so the same with like short hair. I feel like why body types important is because short have my enhance certain features more than others and and make look make you look bigger or smaller, depending on how you look like.

Abdullah Najjar 1:42:31
Yeah, that's interesting. Well, yeah, what about what about beards? I think we touched on

Abdullah Najjar Speaker 1:42:38
it a little bit, but I like what you bring it up.

Abdullah Najjar 1:42:42
Yeah, I mean, like, what would be your Yeah, do like what sort of? Very maybe? Yeah, like length? Or? I'm sure well maintained. It's good. But like length wise. Yeah. I mean, that's like, its age. Its age.

Veronika Becher 1:42:58
Oh my gosh, I feel like so many guys in it looks good on them. But it makes them look much, much older. And sometimes it makes them look too old. Yeah, the reason why certain, like, of course, there's a thing of stereotype of women falling in love of guys who are looking older and like are older. But that's the thing off like maturity if increased more or like experience, right? Maybe that's like the two reasons. I don't know. But I feel like if a guy has a beard, and and the he just looks so much older, like 20 years older. I don't know if I will be attracted to this guy anymore. Like, I think you need to still fit your age gap. At least a little bit. Because if you look like a 40 years old guy going to college while you're literally 20 that's questionable. No, seriously, like, you don't have to look older. If that's like your concern. Don't worry. Like, they'll be worse. They'll be for me worse, I think, though, and another thing is the whole massage thing right now. Like it's a trend like mustache

Abdullah Najjar 1:44:08
growing mustache.

Veronika Becher 1:44:09
Oh my gosh, that's scary. It is a trend. And I don't know why but sometimes looks weird. Oh, yeah. I don't want to know this is not gonna be appropriate on this episode. No, but sometimes guys look, you know, like pedophiles.

Abdullah Najjar 1:44:24
Yeah, it has that connotation to it. Sometimes. Yeah, for some reason.

Veronika Becher 1:44:31
I cannot change it. And it does not always look it. Yeah, it will fit some people but not all people and

Abdullah Najjar 1:44:40
it's a gamble. Yes. So he was especially

Veronika Becher 1:44:44
with my session. Yeah. And I think if you take care of your beard, that's good. Like I think like salt was good clean cut. Oh, yeah, that's a good feeling like I'm legs You

Abdullah Najjar 1:45:02
know, like, like a, like a 10 day stubble type of thing. Because I reckon that's something that can

Veronika Becher 1:45:08
be attracted to. Yeah, for some reason there are women who are like, you know, this is the theory. I'm I'm jumping topics. That's the thing that man Hey, just like, you know, I'm structured conversations. Yes, I'm living up to my own image I'm enjoying. It's the gray pants theory,

Abdullah Najjar 1:45:30
the gray pants

Veronika Becher 1:45:31
theory. Do you know that? No, because apparently this a thing, and I don't know why dad guys look more attractive for gray pet at this

Abdullah Najjar 1:45:40
time with gray pants.

Veronika Becher 1:45:44
Specifically, and it's the same thing with like, oh, you kind of don't have a massage. But you're like Catholic rotated 10 days like five days. Yeah, it's like this. Oh, I'm not clean in a marshy good looking and I'm writing on behalf he's a gray sweatpants on. And then it's so looks attractive. So some reason you're like, Well, I don't even know why.

Abdullah Najjar Speaker 1:46:07
I didn't know that. But

Veronika Becher 1:46:09
the gray slippers i swear. It's the thing. It's a thing that people even ask what is the equivalent for female like females in general? Oh, say a few more people for some reason if anyone notice. I don't know. Why,

Abdullah Najjar 1:46:23
like the equivalent for gray sweatpants and really looks good.

Veronika Becher 1:46:26
It does look good. I don't even know why. It's just like I've barely seen anyone where it looks bad. Yeah, it's great. Specifically, gray. Wow.

Abdullah Najjar 1:46:38
I didn't know about that one. No.

Veronika Becher 1:46:40
Switching the switch. Next time when you have to get your adapter or whatever it was. It's gonna be great.

Abdullah Najjar 1:46:46
Great. Yeah, that was mine were black at that time but but please don't

Veronika Becher 1:46:51
go for really tight sweat pants. That's the only thing I can wear it's going to be that don't do that but

Abdullah Najjar 1:46:56
it turned off it

Veronika Becher 1:46:58
can be I don't know some people like it maybe but I think so. Like a straight female really tired jeans and sweatpants. Just something about that. throws me off. Oh yeah. If you non-belief

Abdullah Najjar Speaker 1:47:14
Don't put him on.

Veronika Becher 1:47:18
If you want to attract girls, maybe there are girls who are attracted to that. I'm sorry. I'm not trying to discriminate anyone. But I'm not into that. I'm not into like these like tie jeans and just like you got it. No, no. Yeah, like leggings. Like I'm sorry, this is a thing I'm going to discriminate. Please guys don't wear leggings.

Abdullah Najjar 1:47:40
What about slippers? Because I've heard so many girls I don't wear slippers by the way, but for some of you who are saying like oh, that's just no so unattractive slippers are like the was the the socks crocs crocs

Veronika Becher 1:47:58
I agree. It was a you know if I need to sign a paper anywhere please give me I'm going to sign it and say please never bad products on this. I cannot get the whole thing about crocs. It's the same of the same as arcs. Like like the boots. Girls something where, you know, they look a little bit like, I don't know. I'm in Alaska, and I just have these like socks like these, like, I know boots, you know, which was sock boots, just called ox box.

Abdullah Najjar 1:48:30
I kind of look this up.

Veronika Becher 1:48:31
GG Ugg, ugg is right. Oh,

Abdullah Najjar 1:48:36
that's Ugg that's Argh, you oh my gosh, it's okay.

Veronika Becher 1:48:42
about that one. No, but they're right now I'm trying to have like slippers that a half slippers have like from this brand. And then like soften side but they like kind of you just put them on in I don't know. I don't know they just weird. And so you're gonna try and picture that yeah, so to see that I just I'm triggered I need to let you know. These are boots. They look this way.

Abdullah Najjar 1:49:10
Oh, yeah, I recognize these Wait, so you you would find them unappealing? Some

Veronika Becher 1:49:15
people find them really appealing is the same with crocs. I feel like could you say we hit shoes? I don't know. I just I don't get the whole thing with I'm collecting mini les clip on the knees. I don't know how that you call them on my Crocs and then customize the color of my crocs? No, all right. I think yeah, you would never see me with crocs. Like if you want to customize some get some Jordans. Okay, they're more expensive but crocs awesome. Not always the most. I mean, OXA definitely not the cheapest shoes. Yeah, you don't customize them, but I don't find them also attractive. Yeah. You know, a girl.

Abdullah Najjar 1:49:53
Just saying. What about I I think I have, I don't know if I guess we discussed a lot about the men and what's

Veronika Becher 1:50:04
just became the topic of

Abdullah Najjar 1:50:07
No, no. I mean, I'm trying to like figure out what like the female equivalent, like Mr. Questions, like

Veronika Becher 1:50:12
gray sweatpants. What's something attractive? Like? Do you think? Do you think crop tops are attractive? Let's start with

Abdullah Najjar 1:50:18
like crop tops. What can you were like what would you describe as your one like

Veronika Becher 1:50:23
a whole definition? I mean, anything that would be as kind of your style like, it doesn't have to be belly button, but everything that is like ending blowing feels a little bit like the depending on the jeans. You're wearing abdomen.

Abdullah Najjar 1:50:34
Yes. A little bit daft. Yeah. That's an interesting one. I. So, maybe that's more I think, for me matter of preference. I wouldn't think that's a general thing. But I like it when it's like, not too high, but just reveals a little bit of like the abdomen region. Just a little bit. You can see the belly button. Sorry, but just be very clear about that. So, yeah, so not too high. But just like you can see like this much of the abdomen region like across you know, just Yeah, a couple of inches. Yeah, if it gets gets to that's like I think preference for me not like a general thing. I'm sure a lot of guys find the whole you know, crop top tight shorts type of style gym girl. Very, very, very attractive.

Veronika Becher 1:51:36
You might see me probably No, sir. You see, these things are cheap, comfortable. Which ones tight. Just gym shorts.

Abdullah Najjar 1:51:46
They're comfortable. They're super comfortable. Really.

Veronika Becher 1:51:48
I don't know why, like for me, even though they're tight. They can be really stretchy. Like the material is so like the ones I have. So stretchy. I can like lay them like on the sweatpants. Like you think they like squishing your end? Some do? They were the ones. The ones I actually own. I feel like they really comfy. Yeah, they actually really comfortable. And they don't like squish, you know, like you stop makes question. And it's

Abdullah Najjar 1:52:19
really comfortable. So they're elastic. And

Veronika Becher 1:52:22
yes, they really elastic. And that's what why people wear them to begin with sometimes yes, they actually comfortable. They made them differently. And so they actually comfortable. It's not even about oh, I'm going to show everything. Yeah, just comfortable. I find them even more comfortable than jeans shorts. Well, because jean shorts are so difficult to find. Maybe just me, but I feel like sometimes they too short. Like you see too much I see on campus all the time. I'm like, Oh, I can not go like that to my business lecture.

Abdullah Najjar 1:52:55
Oh, so you would think there is a fair amount that's too short Jean Jean jean shorts.

Veronika Becher 1:53:03
Yes. But also there are some when they too long, and it looks like your mom and your 50s. So I don't know where to settle down. Because in between is super difficult to find. Yeah. And ones that are really comfortable and safe, comfortable. And you can actually wear are all the time. And problem is also like the waist is usually too big. But then you don't fit into like with your leg. So fit into the jeans. And you just like it's a hassle. So you don't have the problem with gym shorts. You know, you just wear them they really stretchy, they adjust to your body type. You don't need to, you know, worry about that. I didn't know about that. They you don't need your belt, they adjust to your waist. They adjust to you. You can get different lengths and then adjusted to your body,

Abdullah Najjar 1:53:53
I guess. Wow. But yeah, no, I think crop tops. Yeah. Can you know, I think again, I think it's just a matter of preference, I'm sure. Yeah, I think if you were to talk to most guys, they would say yeah, that looks like a bug. Like yeah, like half the abdomen is shown. It's a it's very, very attractive. I'm sure a lot of guys find that. I mean, it's not like I don't find it, but I would pry or like I would put that what I just described earlier on top. You know, like I'm kind of setting a hierarchy of like, the attractiveness of crop tops.

Veronika Becher 1:54:32
Okay, we get more life advices you know from like, what type of crop tops you should wear. Next time when you go shopping, you need to measure it out. Exactly the only two inches. To me it is close enough of your belly button where the ride shorts, because it needs to shower enough and not

Abdullah Najjar 1:54:57
too much. Even though like I described Joe generalities and preferences at the end of the day, like really, I think a lot of stuff, people just throw out the window, and they start. Like, it becomes more like a treat person, the person is a person, and you realize that they cannot be whatever fantasy that you have in mind. Like, I mean, I don't have a particular fantasy in mind. But fiction books,

Veronika Becher 1:55:27
fiction books. Yeah.

Abdullah Najjar 1:55:29
It goes back to that, right. Like, you can have these fantasies, but real life, it's like, yeah, no one will ever embody everything. I may fantasize, and I never had, like, I never felt like, I fantasize about, like, a particular

Veronika Becher 1:55:48
way of fantasizing.

Abdullah Najjar 1:55:50
No, I never had those sorts of scientists.

Veronika Becher 1:55:54
Is there something specific? To Russia? No, I

Abdullah Najjar 1:55:59
mean, I'm talking about like, an ideal sort of partner, right? I never had like a particular fantasy, where like, I need her to look like this. I knew her dress like that. I need her to treat me like, like, just to

Veronika Becher 1:56:12
treat someone like that. Because I feel like I have a list. And if you're crazy about that, but I have

Abdullah Najjar 1:56:16
no I mean, I mean, if if someone treated me like, Now, obviously, that that's less than that, no, that's not good. But I wouldn't be so exclusive to like, the looks and like the clothing, I wouldn't focus too much on that. I think personality of the of the GAO really matters, you know, like, it really plays a role in making it sort of amplifying the attractiveness of a person. Because sometimes you see, maybe I don't know a guy from afar from a distance and you're like, oh, you know, a, they look attractive. But once you start talking to them, you realize, just you have a horrible personality. Oh, I agree. And I think it happens, you know, right. Yeah.

Veronika Becher 1:56:54
Girl, say, like, looks so pretty, but then you talk to them and like, Okay, I wouldn't ever talk to them again.

Abdullah Najjar 1:57:01
So personality can make or break your looks or your, the way you dress or the way you carry yourself. And so for me, truly I say, I do have preferences in mind. But I think really personality, it has to match. Like, if someone was not thoughtful, wasn't understanding didn't listen well, or that can really break a relationship or my desire to be associated with that person. And then, you know, the other stuff, complement it, like, you know, if someone was like, if I, you know, if I was with a girl that had a cropped off that didn't reveal, like, am I gonna like, oh, yeah, you're done. If she didn't, like, it's fine. Like, you know,

Veronika Becher 1:57:46
it's, that's how you settle down for the wrong crop top.

Abdullah Najjar Speaker 1:57:53
But seriously, like, I'm

Abdullah Najjar 1:57:54
sure you would probably think the same thing to me since. Yeah, like you have certain fantasies in mind. But at some point, you will compromise on certain things that at the end of the day, you're like, it doesn't matter. Like it doesn't matter if, if you know, he dressed up in

Veronika Becher 1:58:11
exam, like, whatever, he's dressing up, and you expect him to dress up this way. Yeah.

Abdullah Najjar 1:58:15
And if it gets excessive, like, if you always is, if he's always underdressed, then you might schedule an intervention, you're like, Hey, you gotta you gotta pick up like, You got to pump up your game, you know, like your dress. Yeah. But certain things you will probably overlook, like, I mean, if she's like, oh, you know, she, she had like, a, I don't know, like, if I had, like, you know, she meant, for example, like she shaved her legs. And, you know, maybe she forgot one day, or she didn't do that she had like a syllabus, like, it doesn't matter. Like, it's a person, like, you can't think that they're gonna look 100% every day. It's just impossible. You know, so you never treat people like, or your loved one like, you know, there's like, they're always going to be on top of their game. Like, you have to be understanding like, people go through it. You have to understand that people really go through times when you just have to be more thoughtful, I guess, you know.

Veronika Becher 1:59:10
But I think looks Mather like looks really for people. If someone tells me Oh, I don't look at looks at all. I know that I think completely false. That's false. Yeah. I don't believe people like telling me that because I feel like no matter what it is, something attracted you to this person. Exactly. And it's, to certain extent, still looks. It's not always it doesn't have to be 5050. But there is a percentage.

Abdullah Najjar 1:59:38
Looks really do matter. No, do you really do. And I really think I mean, that's what maybe attracts you to a person that you want to maybe start a conversation with. Really, I think it really plays a difference. Like if someone looked put together. It looks good. Maybe, you know, genetically good. Sorry.

Abdullah Najjar Speaker 1:59:56
But then,

Veronika Becher 1:59:59
like Through though,

Abdullah Najjar 2:00:00
let's be honest, some people just haven't like Joe Rogan podcast would say, an unearned tyranny of beauty. Like, you know, they just born like that, you know, and that's fine. I don't like, one shouldn't envy them. That's how it is, you know,

Veronika Becher 2:00:16
it is. Unfortunately, though, it's true. For some people, it's unfortunate, you know, but I feel like you should make the best out of what you have. And that's kind of like, like we talked about enhance your beauty by wearing the things that fit you by doing whatever, you need to feel comfortable to feel confident in yourself and try to work on yourself. Because like I said, there are so many people that are in relationships, or like people feel attractive to. And I don't know why besides their character besides because why should I? And unfortunately, I'm not saying that you should be confident every single day. But it is a thing, if you appear confident people will just feel more drawn towards you, if you're positive. And that's it. Like, that's a different topic, but it's just like, how, how should you keep up the game of being confident and positive and all the time happy, and when you want not this? You know, I literally had this conversation all the time with one of my best friends in Canada right now. And we would always like people expect you to be a certain way, dress up a certain way, you know, act in a certain way. And if you can't keep it healthy, like right away, what's wrong with you? Like why you're not the way we know you? Oh, yeah. Um, and just try to enhance though and work on these things and be nice to people and not rude and you'll be automatically drawn people towards you. Yeah, that's what I

Abdullah Najjar 2:01:46
think so type of energy that you're given the way you know, like, if they're too they're just so stern. Maybe too. Yeah, they body language, you know, work. When you walk in the city earlier, like, Yeah, we're gonna work with what we have.

Abdullah Najjar Speaker 2:02:07
Okay, studio No. No, but truly, truly, that's right. I

Abdullah Najjar 2:02:16
mean, I

Veronika Becher 2:02:17
like this. I like this room.

Abdullah Najjar 2:02:18
I like it. I like it.

Veronika Becher 2:02:19
I actually like it more than the other one. Really? Seriously.

Abdullah Najjar 2:02:22
I like the other one more, because the smaller Oh,

Veronika Becher 2:02:25
and I was like that I'm claustrophobic. I'm not know for some people. That would be weird, but I feel like it feels more like at home.

Abdullah Najjar 2:02:31
Feels more like sort of cozier. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Veronika Becher 2:02:35
Then they could pick one. Right? And I like the light here. You don't like the lighting. There's a reason why red light is used for so many things. I'm not kidding. It's red light here. It's not but it's blue light over there. And blue light typically is not a relaxing color. Really. So red is actually that's like a thing. Red is it can be non relaxing, but it is associated with like, of course like sexy moments and yes, but it also is like a relaxing thing too. Yeah, I can't be not always.

Abdullah Najjar 2:03:15
Wow. Let me just pause right here for a little bit.

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