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Marketing and business strategy podcast for executives and marketing leaders who want to improve outcomes from marketing.
Marketing veterans Devin Bramhall (Animalz, Help Scout) & Margaret Kelsey (InVision, OpenView) use their combined 20+ years of experience to increase the business impact of marketing by creating shared understanding of its purpose and outcomes among marketing leaders, founders/CEOs & others in the C-suite.
Created in partnership with Share Your Genius
An award-winning B2B podcast production company: https://www.shareyourgenius.com/
Margaret Kelsey [00:00:01]:
I keep coming back to this thought again and again, even in my personal life right now of like the shoulders of generations of women that we're standing on to get to this place and having a lot of gratitude and also a lot of empathy of the fact that they did not get to experience what we're experiencing right now in the way that we are. And then it kind of switches to a sense of duty or obligation to make sure that we're as out of touch and giving as bad of advice to the next generation because we've changed it enough that the women are like, you guys had to deal with that and that's the advice you're giving me. The world is different now. Sit down, old lady.
Devin Brampahl [00:00:44]:
Imagine what it's like as a black woman coming up in the workplace and now you're CEO, Right? What I'm really hopeful about is that those experiences, if they're already business smart more than white men, maybe because they have an awareness of a negative experience and what it feels like where white men don't like, they just show up to the party and they're like, come on in. Right? Maybe that will change the way businesses operate in a positive way too.
Margaret Kelsey [00:01:16]:
I'm Margaret Kelsey.
Devin Brampahl [00:01:18]:
And I'm Devin Brampahl.
Margaret Kelsey [00:01:19]:
And this is don't say Content, a.
Devin Brampahl [00:01:22]:
Show created in partnership with Share youe Genius. Margaret, why are you late today? I'm so curious.
Margaret Kelsey [00:01:33]:
I'm helping my mom out with something and she kept calling it a meme and bless her heart, it's not a meme. It's just.
Devin Brampahl [00:01:39]:
What was it?
Margaret Kelsey [00:01:40]:
It's just a, like a graphic, like an image with some text overlay on top of it. But she was so impressed. I used ChatGPT to make the image and then I threw it in Canva and put her words on top of it that she wanted and sent it over to her. She's like, this is so incredible. And then she's like, who owns the copyright? So I had to copy paste that to ChatGPT. The end user owns the copyright and can like sell it and do whatever you want with anything that you create from ChatGPT.
Devin Brampahl [00:02:10]:
Now I want to know what she thinks. An actual.
Margaret Kelsey [00:02:13]:
I think she's like a woman in her 60s and just that's the word that she thought it was. Because we hear words and we adopt them without ever asking what they mean.
Devin Brampahl [00:02:24]:
I have a section about that in my book, actually. You mentioning your mom made me think about a part of a chapter I'm actually currently writing, which is about how the B2B buyer is about to change, is already changing, but is about to change more dramatically than I think a lot of people realize.
Margaret Kelsey [00:02:44]:
And is that because the generations are changing of who's making purchasing decisions?
Devin Brampahl [00:02:48]:
Actually more factors than that happening at the same time. And once I started looking at the data, I came to realize that this is potentially an opportunity of the scale that we saw when like SEO became part of the zeitgeist of content strategy. And I hadn't even like realized it. I was trying to summarize, like, here's the B2B buyer now, right? Like we've got a new kind of generation, but not just like a age generation. There's actually like several factors besides age.
Margaret Kelsey [00:03:26]:
What is changing?
Devin Brampahl [00:03:28]:
So first of all, the ethnicity of the population is changing, which has been going on for a while. I think that's why white people are so scared all the time and getting more aggressive because they're like, oh my God, we're not going to be the majority anymore. I think it was like 22 to 24, the white population stayed flat. Asian, Hispanic and black and African American demographics all grew. And so it was like a net loss in white people, basically overall drop in white American population. Obviously because of the world we live in. A change in population doesn't mean a change in people in power because we live in a messed up world. But there's other.
Devin Brampahl [00:04:11]:
I found the U.S. bureau of Labor Statistics, which was reported in January 2024, showed that Black or African American workers held 9.2% of management occupations in the U.S. which is small. It just is small. But the interesting thing is that pace of growth is way faster than the previous 10 years. So from 2012 to 2022, it went from like 7 point something percent to 8 point something percent. Basically increased like a little over 1% from 2012 to 2022. But from 22 to 23 it increased from 8.9% to 9.2, which again, we are talking very small numbers.
Devin Brampahl [00:05:04]:
And so I'm speaking in signals here. That is still significant to me just given that it represents a bigger jump year over year than we've seen 10 years before. Okay, so now we've got more diversity in the population. I'm not even going to call it progress, it's not progress. But we're seeing a signal that maybe there might be more diversity among the buying committees. Right?
Margaret Kelsey [00:05:28]:
Yeah.
Devin Brampahl [00:05:28]:
Add to that all the progressive stuff, the progress that women have made. Right. So there's more enrolling in college, more getting higher degrees that is resulting in More women in leadership roles, which I think was like 28% in C suite positions, which is like up from 17% a decade ago. Follow me. Because I swear this is coming together. On top of that there's this thing called the great wealth transfer which is like a bunch of baby boomers are going to die and they're passing it on to their spouses. And since women live longer, a lot of them are women. Basically like women are stand to inherit like a $30 trillion over the next five years or ten years or so.
Devin Brampahl [00:06:09]:
When I saw that, I was like, okay, wait, wait, wait. You start to see the signal, right? The potential signal, which is like more people who aren't white and white men. Yeah, exactly.
Margaret Kelsey [00:06:23]:
White and male. Yeah.
Devin Brampahl [00:06:26]:
Then that isn't even where the opportunity is because that's just like, okay, fine, that's just B2B buyers changing. Right. And so like that's just a signal to marketers to like really get to know what. You can't boil down a consumer profile in the ways that you used to. Right. There isn't one. Marketing Mary. There's like marketing Marianne and marketing Molly.
Devin Brampahl [00:06:48]:
I'm stopping. I hate the whole thing. And so that's like table six. The really interesting thing though is that there's also data showing that women and minorities get better business outcomes than the others.
Margaret Kelsey [00:07:01]:
Yeah, women founders and non white men founders have better returns for VCs even. Which is the thing that always made my head spin of why are we pattern matching for what we've seen before when we have this data that says that if we invest in more diverse founders that we would actually have a better financial return.
Devin Brampahl [00:07:23]:
It's not just startups where that's true. The Boston Consulting Group did a report that said innovation revenue is 19% higher when there's above average diversity on the management team versus below average leadership diversity. And that gender diverse companies are 20% more likely to outperform their peers in long term value creation. And that women in minority groups with at least 30% representation are significantly more likely to financially outperform those with 30% or fewer. And all of that plus that my client that I work with, Scrubius, they focus on connecting underfunded founders with angel investors who are more likely to to invest in a more like more diverse group of people. She did math and found that there's like $500 billion in undeployed capital in like families and personal wealth. And that's like a conservative number. What I started to think about with all of that, I swear I'M so boring.
Devin Brampahl [00:08:25]:
I am boring. I never leave my house.
Margaret Kelsey [00:08:28]:
No, I mean, I think this is fascinating.
Devin Brampahl [00:08:30]:
So when I started to think about it, I was like, put all that together with the fact that buying committees now contain six to 10 people. And if this trend in diversity in management continues, which we have a reason to think it will, right. Just by sheer population. Right. And so like eventually, you know, when you think about like voters who vote, people in power, those people are about to have a greater representation, a more diverse representation than they do now. And when those diverse group of people on the buying committee and leading companies, those people have better business outcomes, which means there's actually a huge economic opportunity like right around the corner. By that, I mean like five years, ten years, I'm sure. But like, still, if I'm a company, I would be really excited about this right now because Gen Z are coming in hot and they kind of represent this reality already.
Devin Brampahl [00:09:27]:
They're extremely individualistic. They are more diverse, they care about more types of things. Right. Like, so it's not just about power, they care about compassion and all that. And so I feel like everybody's looking over there at like AI deepfakes and where the credit is on stuff and the real opportunity is about to come up, which is there is an entire new group of people to market to. And if you nail it, right, you nail it early. That's an opportunity the likes of which the early SEO adopters saw.
Margaret Kelsey [00:10:01]:
Which the underlying thing is what you've been doing before probably won't work continuously because we're gonna have to figure out if you tend to ever actually do those like marketing Persona things. Like those are fundamentally going to change, even though I personally kind of hate those. But knowing your customer base, like it's, don't think that you know what that makeup is going to be and who the influencers are going to be. And I don't mean like social media influencers, I mean like the, the people that influence the decisions. Right?
Devin Brampahl [00:10:29]:
Yeah. If you think about just anecdotally, this next buyer, they don't care about your dumb tech product. They grew up with tech, whereas we, it came into our lives, so we were more enthusiastic about it.
Margaret Kelsey [00:10:43]:
We were like able to be like shiny object technology and they're like, yeah, why wouldn't it work exactly how I need it to?
Devin Brampahl [00:10:50]:
And so the novelty of your existence isn't even a thing to benefit you. Right. Like if you were a B2B SaaS brand 10 years ago, people loved you just because you existed and now they're like, all right, grandpa. A byproduct of that is that they're more discerning, right? Because they take tech for granted in all areas of their life. And so they're going to be less wowed if you're a company that just slaps a.AI on your URL or puts together your, like, air table Zapier GPT API, like powered product or whatever. They're like, I see you like, no, this isn't actually innovation. This is just using a bunch of automation tools and stuff like that. Because I can't say the right words.
Margaret Kelsey [00:11:37]:
It's too technical and I don't have any data on this. But it does feel like this younger generation cares more about what the company stands for, what the values are, what, like, the meaning behind it is, than fulfilling a need. And I think that could also just be a symptom too, of the fact that there is so much tech out there and it's easier to build than ever, that there's no differentiation on the tech itself anymore. Especially the younger generation want to hold companies, especially that they, like, have purchasing power and putting dollars behind, like, hold them to a standard of, hey, like, I want to make sure we're value aligned again.
Devin Brampahl [00:12:11]:
I've been deep in this chapter today, so I'm just like, in it. This was a 2024 Edelman Trust Barometer, and it said that trust in the brand maintained the number three spot year over year. Like, went down a point, but it was still in that number three spot. And that was for buyers who considered it important or a deal breaker. So trust in the brand was an important or deal breaker when making purchase decisions. But the new criteria was, I trust the company that owns the brand. And that was now in number eight. So they're looking even up to the parent company now.
Devin Brampahl [00:12:45]:
I was like, whoa. Like, doesn't. It doesn't surprise me on the ground, right? Like, we all live in the world right now and we're these Converse. I live in Williamsburg, so I'm like, surrounded by an age range, people that.
Margaret Kelsey [00:12:56]:
Care about all the way up the dream.
Devin Brampahl [00:12:58]:
Yeah, it's like I've got everything from Gen Z all the way up to, like, my people having babies. And so.
Margaret Kelsey [00:13:03]:
But I think that's a really interesting thing if you start to think about mergers and acquisitions and things. So thinking about that of like, okay, you're a parent company. You're considering buying this brand because it's doing so well, but if your reputation as that parent company isn't a good one, you're you know, driving a new car off the lot and losing money if you buy it, you know.
Devin Brampahl [00:13:26]:
Oh yeah. And I just thought too, like, it's such a different world than it was when I was running Animals. I was there during the years that trust and CEO is like pummeting. I was like, this is fun. But now it's going a different direction where more people trust their company to like not do the right thing, but like they are empowering CEOs more to take action if it aligns with either something related to social justice and something regarding, like protecting them. Which I thought was wild because the data on trust as it related to businesses, when I was reading through it, it sometimes felt like it was contradicting its. But also by comparing trust according to level of grievance, I didn't find that to be very useful. I get what they were trying to do.
Devin Brampahl [00:14:14]:
It was just hard for me to like really understand it as well. But either way, I think we're entering a phase of even more individualism. But like, not as much in a bad way. Like I feel like we've got individualism right now in like a combative way. Everyone people are like, if you're not like me or you don't agree with me, like you're bad and wrong. What I see is like, oh, more different types of people with their own specific experiences. Right. Like thinking about us as like white women coming up in the workplace.
Devin Brampahl [00:14:43]:
Imagine what it's like as a black woman coming up in the workplace and now your CEO. Right. What I'm really hopeful about is that those experiences and not to be too optimistic, but like, if they're already business smart more than white men, maybe because they have an awareness of a negative experience and what it feels like where white men don't like, they just show up to the party and they're like, come on in. Maybe that will change the way businesses operate in a positive way too. So it's not just about the financial aspect, but also which I think is really important because if marketers are going to be able to succeed in a more nuanced buyer world, they're going to need someone with patience. They're going to need someone who's steady, strong, and isn't threatened by things that.
Margaret Kelsey [00:15:33]:
Are complex or things that are new or changing.
Devin Brampahl [00:15:35]:
Yeah. Because I think marketing strategy is going to get even more to me interesting. I'm personally very excited and usually science and math don't make me that excited.
Margaret Kelsey [00:15:48]:
When you can use them to tell a good story. That's Fun.
Devin Brampahl [00:15:50]:
But I think I really see it, though. You know what I mean? It's not just like, I trust numbers. I feel like I'm starting to see those signals now. And I'm starting to see people like my client make big moves that haven't manifested in the world yet that are going to fundamentally support this change that's already happening.
Margaret Kelsey [00:16:07]:
I think I was getting stuck on this idea that everyone's getting more individualistic. And I want to hear what your thoughts are. Is it that you think that people are getting more comfortable embracing and trusting people's differentiated life experiences? Because when I think individualistic, I think like, I'm in it for me and nobody else. I'm not thinking about the collective. I'm not thinking about the collective. Good. So I just wanted to drill into that word because you were saying everyone's becoming a little bit more individualistic in a good way.
Devin Brampahl [00:16:38]:
Yeah. I go back to like the 1990s as my default example. When the culture encouraged conformity. There was a right way to dress and a wrong way to dress. There was a cool way and a not cool way. Right. And how we've slowly been migrating away from that to a point today where if you stand out in a positive way by being yourself, if you're less.
Margaret Kelsey [00:17:00]:
You'Re more invisible, even tattoos are more acceptable. Piercings are more acceptable, wonky color hair.
Devin Brampahl [00:17:06]:
And because all of that is more. I'm going to use the word normal, like people, culturally, those things are considered more common. Let me say it like that. That even that doesn't make you stand out as much. Right. And you also have these folks, us included, gravitating more towards people who have the similar beliefs or interests in them more than ever before. And so because we're all able to lean into ourselves more, reflect that out in the world, we're attracting more people who share similar interests and such to us. And so in large part, this is already happening.
Devin Brampahl [00:17:42]:
What I think is cool about it is when you think about it not in terms of maybe individualism is, but is kind of that. It's like when you take it away from like, oh, I only care about me and I'm only fighting for me, but more like I care about the people who believe what I believe and the people like me. What you get are these, like, really well defined from a marketing standpoint. You almost get like, oh, my God, this is so hard to say. Like, Marketing Mary. Right. We had to create Marketing Mary by deciding what she is. We just, we assigned her these traits, whereas I think when you get more groups of people coming together on their own, sort of like individual beliefs, those profiles will reveal themselves and marketers will have an easier time and we'll have to do less research figuring out what these micro communities care about and want, because they're just gonna show up in the world.
Devin Brampahl [00:18:37]:
Because it's not just about one. It's like a couple. That make any sense?
Margaret Kelsey [00:18:40]:
Yeah. I think when you're saying individualism, I think it's tolerance and curiosity, acceptance of our own individual experiences. But at the same time, people are caring more about values and collective good than previously, which to me isn't necessarily individualistic, but it's a. This merging of acceptance, tolerance, curiosity, and that we still want to drive together for some sort of collective good. And that businesses should be doing that too. Not just and people, organizations starts with.
Devin Brampahl [00:19:13]:
The individualistic piece where it's like by being yourself, you are attracting more people to you, thus becoming more of a collective. And so then you have multiple micro collectives probably coming together over some other shared thing, et cetera. But I like the fact that you being yourself in the world doesn't make you alone. It helps you find your tribe. And selfishly, from a marketing standpoint, that's really convenient. Yeah.
Margaret Kelsey [00:19:44]:
And I think about the fact that probably in no other time in human history, because we didn't have technology, the Internet, online communities, you know, ability to share how we feel at mass, that it makes sense that would have been the thing that brought people together because you would have been in a smaller town, village, whatever it would be. Hey, you couldn't be the odd one out, right? Odd one meant like socially ostracized rather than odd one out. Now it's like, well, I can go find my tribe from the entire world rather than just from my little town.
Devin Brampahl [00:20:21]:
And I think you make a good point there, especially in the conformity based on who you're around. So we were talking last time about the unfortunately bad advice I keep getting from rich white women, but it makes sense because these are folks that are a generation about older than me, and they had to conform to a man's world in order to be in power. And so that's all they know. They didn't have, you know, as much as I experience and still do different treatment. Because I'm a woman, I still get to be a woman. And I don't have to pretend to laugh at dumb guy jokes. I hate to say it, but, like, there's space for me to stand up to them in a productive way. Like, I Can argue I cannot share their opinion.
Devin Brampahl [00:21:13]:
And I won't immediately get fired or yelled at, right?
Margaret Kelsey [00:21:17]:
Not immediately. I keep coming back to this thought again and again, even in my personal life right now of, like, the shoulders of generations of women that we're standing on to get to this place and having a lot of gratitude and also a lot of empathy of the fact that, like, they did not get to experience what we're experiencing right now in the way that we are. And then it kind of of switches to, like, a sense of duty or obligation to make sure that we're as out of touch and giving as bad of advice to the next generation because we've changed it enough that the women are like, you guys had to deal with that. And that's the advice you're giving me. The world is different now. Sit down, old lady. I'm not doing it that way. Like, you know, there's a sense of duty and obligation to, like, stay in it because of that, right? Because that's how change happens.
Devin Brampahl [00:22:09]:
I mean, I actually literally said that recently. I was like, I'm not gonna do that. But you're right, because, you know, they really had to in order to be in power. They had to hide in plain sight. And I guarantee that power didn't look like power to them inside the actual workplace. Right? In terms of how much harder they had to try, how much credit they probably had to give other people who.
Margaret Kelsey [00:22:33]:
Didn'T deserve it, and how much they were not able to blend if they were working mothers not being able to blend that or, you know, the fact that they would probably have to almost make the male decisions of working late. And, I mean, there was a study. I don't have it in front of me. I think I've talked about it on another episode too. It was about the idea of rewarding with bonuses. They gave, like, a group of people the ability to, like, deliver bonuses to this, like, hypothetical scenario. And one was a woman who was a top performer, did all the stuff she needed to do, and would leave on time every day. And the other one was, like, a man who had the same output but, like, worked really late.
Margaret Kelsey [00:23:16]:
And they were giving the bonuses more likely to go to the man than the woman, even though the output was the same, because they were actually, like, rewarding the long hours rather than the efficiency and the ability to leave on time and have the same output.
Devin Brampahl [00:23:33]:
Like, how does rule? Like, how have you been in charge for so long?
Margaret Kelsey [00:23:37]:
Interesting to think about, right? Like, if there's two high performers and one's like, nose to the Grindstoning it. We still have this unconscious bias of rewarding that behavior rather than rewarding true, like, efficiency.
Devin Brampahl [00:23:52]:
At the time, the boys beside me got companies. Do you know what I mean? It's like, I'm pretty sure I made that money. Like, I mean, obviously not by myself. And I think the thing that gets me really excited is, like, I feel like we're still. So maybe this is where my energy is coming from, is, like, out in the world. This conversation is inherent, is always negative. It's always about the injustice and the unfairness, and that's correct and right in its own way, but it makes it feel hopeless and which is also a fair feeling, especially right now. However, what has gotten me more excited is actually working for a woman.
Devin Brampahl [00:24:31]:
I'm constantly shocked at how logical the experience is. It's not chaotic even when there's chaos around us.
Margaret Kelsey [00:24:41]:
It's probably a high level of emotional regulation.
Devin Brampahl [00:24:44]:
Well, no, but it's also, like, kind of. But, like, there isn't a need for it because there isn't emotion being created. Like, men are so, in my experience in the workplace, are extremely dramatic. They can't control their emotions at all. And their only way around it is to just point it at women. I mean, quite literally. My friend works at a company, and a couple weeks ago, she heard from her boss. The boss's boss came to him.
Devin Brampahl [00:25:17]:
My friend cried at dinner that they had, like, a work dinner they had from a couple months ago. So out of the blue, her boss's boss comes to him and is like. Like, this person, you know, cried at this work dinner. And it was really unprofessional. And I think you should do something about it. My friend was like, I was pregnant. Because he also accused her being drunk. And so I was like, I was pregnant.
Devin Brampahl [00:25:37]:
I was not drinking. And her boss was like, we left together. Like, you were really normal. Not only that, but nobody else. None. The other woman there didn't cry. So this man, out of nowhere, like, invents this thing that didn't happen, that a is still happening, which is like, oh, my God. But working with a woman.
Devin Brampahl [00:26:00]:
And I'm not saying that all women are like this, but even just working with you or working with Ashley, Rachel, and Katie and Amanda, like, always feels easy because I'm like, oh, we're just making decisions and saying. Setting boundaries and saying what we want and figuring it out. And. And it's something that keeps tripping me up with Allison because I'm like, you know, the example was we Had a team meeting on Monday, and I completely messed up my book delivery schedule. And it turns out that when I delivered last Monday, that was supposed to be me delivering the rest of the book.
Margaret Kelsey [00:26:40]:
Oh, no.
Devin Brampahl [00:26:41]:
Now they have to give me an extension. I basically have to finish six chapters in eight days. So I was like, oh, no. So I. Once I found out, I called Allison. I was like, here's how I'm going to handle it over the next week, right? And she was like, I support you. It's all good, et cetera. So we get to this team meeting on Monday, and she's stressed and I'm stressed.
Devin Brampahl [00:27:02]:
She's going to south by Southwest. She asked me for something on a shorter timeline, and I was like. I was like, panic in my face. But the thing is, we worked it out. It could have given our stress levels, each of us kind of in the same category, too. We were, with the rest of the team, all able to keep it, like, not freak out. We didn't, like, our emotions didn't get the better of us because all of us stayed calm and all of us were focused on the solution. My point being, like, that same conversation used to lead to a room full of adult men yelling at each other in the world that I actually experienced.
Devin Brampahl [00:27:41]:
And so it's just such an interesting. Yeah, I'm encouraged. I'm personally very excited that they're gonna be people making decisions and having money and power because is so far in my experience, it's better.
Margaret Kelsey [00:27:56]:
Have you seen there's like a funny video skit of, like, the world leaders getting together after some revolution, and it's all women world leaders, and they. And they, like, go around and it's like, hunger. Nope, we're good. Like, climate change up. We're good. And then it was like any kind.
Devin Brampahl [00:28:17]:
Of, like, war or whatever.
Margaret Kelsey [00:28:18]:
And then the two women are talking about. She. Like, we were getting in a little bit of a fight, but I realized I was projecting on her, like, blah, blah. And they're like, yeah, and we figured it out and we're good. And then they, like, wrap it up in, like five minutes. They're like, I can't believe this used to take weeks.
Devin Brampahl [00:28:33]:
And I know, like, look, I know we're oversimplifying. Like, I know that with every bit.
Margaret Kelsey [00:28:39]:
There needs to be space for everyone. And I think that when historically there has been only space for, let's say, you know, know, cisgender white men, that it feels to them like they're losing because that piece of the pie, if we have more Diversity. If we have more diverse perspectives, it looks like they're losing, right? It feels like they're losing. I mean, I can understand why that is. I don't think that it should be different. And I don't know how to counteract that feeling of loss.
Devin Brampahl [00:29:12]:
No one can, man. Not a single person on the planet. Except for men. I don't want to say just white men because there's other in general, like living in, you know, in Bali, for example, like, women carry however many pounds of boulders on their head, and the men sit around quite literally playing with. You know what's crazy? This has been a very creepy thing for me personally lately when I am in the few moments that I am not writing this book that I love so much and like, I'm looking, I'm going scrolling through Instagram, I don't know what this is. I started to get served these videos by white men who I am not fudgeing. Kidding. You are explaining women's emotions to them with authority, the epitome of mansplaining.
Devin Brampahl [00:30:02]:
They're like, listen, when you feel this way. And I think they're trying to be woke. Like, I think they're trying to, like, show that they understand women.
Margaret Kelsey [00:30:11]:
And they're not therapists.
Devin Brampahl [00:30:12]:
They're just these guys and they're always good looking. I started, I would just report them. Like, I started just reporting them as, like, inappropriate. Like, this is terrible. There's a flip side of that that's really awesome. And where there's these accounts of these, like, beautiful men and they're like, girl, you are awesome. Like, they're just all like, like, talking. Right?
Margaret Kelsey [00:30:34]:
I follow them like, your algorithm is hysterical. Yeah, the thing that I. I was feeling a little bad about not doing more proactive things and all that kind of stuff. And then I just realized that, like, my life right now as a woman getting a divorce that has her own career and is taking care of herself. My life in and of itself is a little bit of a radical statement right now based on what the ruling minority wants for us to live. Like. And so I was thinking about, like, my just existence in the world and my decisions and. And is a little bit of a.
Margaret Kelsey [00:31:11]:
A protest against what their desired end game is. And so I'm trying to be peaceful with, like, that's what it is right now.
Devin Brampahl [00:31:19]:
Unlike the very oppressive everything, every decision, everything you say is like a moral thing. Like, I did it for myself. I didn't do it because I was like, now everybody has, like, I don't shame anybody for using Amazon. No, I know. I share it in that light hearted way because I'm like one. It was convenient for me at this time. I'm single, I don't own a home, I'm not getting divorced, I don't have a child. Right.
Devin Brampahl [00:31:43]:
And so I did have space for it. It didn't really impact me at all. Like once I went to do it, I was like, well, this is an errand. But it isn't something that, like, I'm with you, that everybody should be able to show up in the world the way they want. Even if that's. I'm not doing anything. I'm like, you know what? Fair.
Margaret Kelsey [00:31:58]:
I'm just going to take care of myself and that's enough. Keep your side of the sidewalk clean.
Devin Brampahl [00:32:02]:
Clean. Okay, y'all, that's a wrap. Thank you as always for listening.
Margaret Kelsey [00:32:07]:
We'll be back next week. And just remember, you're doing great. You're doing great.
Devin Brampahl [00:32:12]:
30 of you are doing great. The rest, you got to get your.
Margaret Kelsey [00:32:17]:
Together, Come on, you know, you know which side you're on this week, you know, you know, see you next week.
Devin Brampahl [00:32:23]:
Bye.
Margaret Kelsey [00:32:24]:
Bye. But I think that's a really interesting thing if you start to think about like mergers and acquisitions and things about.
Devin Brampahl [00:32:35]:
You said murders at first.
Margaret Kelsey [00:32:38]:
Murders and acquisitions. Sometimes an M and A is a murder and acquisition.