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The Value Creation Mindset explores the decisions successful leaders make to create real, lasting value for their customers, teams, and businesses.
Hosted by A.J. Singh, each episode features candid conversations with founders, CEOs, and builders who have been in the trenches, unpacking hard-earned lessons on leadership, technology, strategy, and execution. No hype. No shortcuts. Just clear thinking, first principles, and practical insight from people who have actually built things that work.
[00:00:00] AJ: Hi, I'm AJ Singh. Welcome to the Value Creation Mindset, the podcast that explores the, the principles behind decisions successful business leaders make to create value for their customers and for them, and for themselves. Today, I am joined by Kika Young, president of 4 City Gear, a third-generation family-owned manufacturing company that, that, uh, specializes in, uh, custom gear and in a, in a, in a custom gearing and precision manufacturing.
[00:00:29] In this episode, we, we will unpack what it takes to, uh, to, uh, build a long-term manufacturing business, how Kika thinks about people, culture, and leadership in a family-owned company, and why preserving knowledge, values, and capabilities matters just as much as tech and growth. Kika, thanks for joining us.
[00:00:55] Kika: Happy to be here, AJ. Thank you for having me.
[00:00:59] AJ (2): Wonderful. Now, for listeners who may not know you yet, what's the problem space you're most focused on right now, and why does that matter to you and your customers?
[00:01:11] Kika: Sure. Forest City Gear is a medium and fine pitch loose gearing manufacturer. So that means we're creating individual gears from customer prints for larger assemblies and gearboxes.
[00:01:27] So we're looking at manufacturing the gears that perhaps you can't buy out of a catalog or may be too difficult for the customer to manufacture themselves. 30 to 50%, it's kind of hard to pinpoint, of our customers are actually other gear manufacturers or folks who are doing their own gearing internally.
[00:01:48] And so perhaps in a given gearbox, maybe they have four, uh, gears, two, two sets of mating gears that they're unable to manufacture or they don't have the equipment or the know-how, and that's where we come in.
[00:02:01] AJ (2): That i- That, that is fantastic. I, I, I have a special love for, um, manufacturing and mechanics. Uh, my, my dad was a mechanical engineer.
[00:02:11] I was trained as a mechanical engineer. Lord knows why I've been doing software for 30-plus years. It's a weird thing. But, you know, and, um- Can you give us an idea of the kind of size and scale of some of the gearing y- you specialize in? And, and- Sure ... and where do some of your products end up? What kind of machinery?
[00:02:31] What kind of final products?
[00:02:33] Kika: Yes. So typically we're super happy, like in a six-inch cube and under. Okay. We can on, uh, our shaping equipment and some of our grinding equipment, we can go up to pushing 30 inches for maybe like a shaft length, a gear shaft. Um, where we run into constraints is actually before the size is the weight.
[00:02:57] We don't have an overhead crane system, so we get into trouble with the actual material handling before we do with the size, since we don't have that overhead crane system. Um, so generally smaller parts. And we are not beholden to any one industry, so we try to serve all industries with only one exception.
[00:03:19] One industry we will not serve, and that is automotive. Uh, but everything- Hmm ... else we'll serve. So aerospace, outer space, medical, uh, imaging, uh, dental, industrial, agriculture, everything except for automotive, unless it's like racing vehicles or something that, that's not a part of- Only- ... the commercial automa- automotive
[00:03:42] AJ: So only the cool automotive stuff you might get to do, the kinda really specialized stuff.
[00:03:47] Interesting. Yeah. Um, did you ever serve the automotive space or no?
[00:03:51] Kika: No, we've never served commercial automotive. Like I said, we'll do some stuff for, you know, like Formula 1 race cars and really cool applications like that, but typically we're going to be too precise for automotive and too expensive. Um-
[00:04:05] AJ: I get you.
[00:04:06] I, uh,
[00:04:07] Kika: I- So it's just not a fit. And the, there's, uh, you know how there, for aerospace there's AS standards, for transportation there's TS, uh, and it is very cumbersome to manage, um, and doesn't make sense for the type of volumes we do. No, uh- So we just steer clear of it ...
[00:04:23] AJ (2): I get you. I mean, when I was a kid, all I ever wanted to do was to fly a plane.
[00:04:27] I mean, you know, every science fair project was all about that. Um, so you are, uh, um, so, so you are servicing aerospace customers now?
[00:04:35] Kika: Yeah, that's, uh, maybe 30 to 40% of our business is either aerospace on the defense side or on the commercial aerospace side. Yep.
[00:04:44] AJ (2): Fantastic. Um, are you mostly dealing in metal or polymer gearing?
[00:04:49] Kika: Uh, we do some polymers. I would say that's less than, I, maybe less than 10%. It's mostly metals. Yep.
[00:04:59] AJ (2): Okay. Um, what's a, what project, if you can, if, if you can, there's no need to name names, but what's the coolest thing you have, you have worked on in, say, the last year or two?
[00:05:12] Kika: In the last year or two, I would say probably s- there are some really cool military and defense things that we're really proud to do, um, that are more on the defensive versus offensive side of defense.
[00:05:29] And I can't be very specific, but it makes you very, you know, proud, um- Cool.
[00:05:33] AJ (2): Of course ...
[00:05:33] Kika: uh, to be able to, to serve in that way. But also, of course, outer space is really cool. Both some of the deep space applications we do, as well as the more, you know, orbital applications. It's really cool to be part of that.
[00:05:48] AJ (2): Okay. Now you've got me really excited here. So, so now the products you've, you've built-
[00:05:54] Kika: Mm-hmm ...
[00:05:54] AJ (2): some of them are in orbit and some of them are in deep space. Is that right?
[00:05:58] Kika: Yeah,
[00:05:58] AJ (2): yeah. Okay. That is- It's pretty cool ... that is just way too cool. Um, now, you know, you've been, um, now Forest City Gear has been around for what?
[00:06:06] 70 years now?
[00:06:07] Kika: Uh, 71 this year.
[00:06:09] AJ (2): 71. Congrats. Um, we just passed the 26-year mark, so we're not even halfway there yet.
[00:06:15] Kika: Yeah. Well, that's pretty good.
[00:06:18] AJ (2): Yeah. You know, what do you think has, has kinda allowed your company to survive and continue to grow and expand over multiple generations for so long?
[00:06:29] Kika: Yeah, I mean, s- ooh, that's a good question.
[00:06:31] So, uh, ultimately, we've stayed true to what we're good at, and we've stayed in that lane. Um, and while we're willing to grow, we have continued to focus on what we're really, really good at, and that's gearing. Uh, we have done some, um, vertical integration within gearing, but no horizontal, uh, expansion. So I think that is a big part of it is, is remaining really, really niche in that way.
[00:06:56] Um, but also, you know, across multi-generations, um, as a family-owned business, the, the emphasis and the, the place you're focusing on as, uh, as a family are future generations, right? And future growth. So that allows us to be able to focus on building things for longevity, so looking two decades out, 20 years out, instead of quarterly.
[00:07:25] Mm-hmm. And not that it's not important to pay attention to the short term, but if you're- continuously chasing quarterly dividend payments and look- Yes ... to maximize the next quarter, y- y- you can't be building for the future, not, at least not as well. Uh, you know, so reinvesting in people and equipment and in things that maybe next quarter won't give you the greatest dividends, but 10 years from now will give you the deepest roots.
[00:07:51] I think that's- Yeah ... that's what our family has done well, that's what my grandparents and parents did well, and, um, I'm working to continue to do.
[00:08:00] AJ (2): So you come from a family of strategic thinkers. I mean, ultimately, you know, it's like the, the... Any entrepreneur who, who, who does this for a while and isn't out for a quick exit, um, you get really, really good at, um, delayed gratification.
[00:08:18] Kika: Yes.
[00:08:19] AJ (2): Right? You gotta get really good at that. And, and I, I totally get you there. I, I think, you know, that 10, 20-year roadmap is something very few businesses even attempt to do. I, I think the Because you've been in one niche i- for so long and gained a lot of institutional knowledge and credibility and success in this, i- i- in, in that particular niche.
[00:08:49] I mean, you know, gearing is
[00:08:53] your, um, hedgehog as, uh, as Jim Collins would actually put it, right? So I, in, in some ways this is a little Japanese. I know Japanese companies like Sony has a 50-year plan, and to a lot of us in the, in the States that sounds kind of crazy. But when you are focused on building a generational business, not just generational wealth for you and your family, but a generational business that will impact and touch customers for decades, it, it, it certainly takes a different mindset.
[00:09:28] I mean, um, did you guys ever stray from that and get burned and come back to the basics? I mean, there's always this... There are always things that try to pull you off course and lose focus. How have you kept that focus and kind of keep things centered?
[00:09:44] Kika: Yeah. I'm... So my m- parents, uh, died within 15 months of each other.
[00:09:53] Uh- Wow ... my mom predeceased my dad, and, uh, in the early, um Gosh, six years ago? Five years ago. And so as it was clear that they were both terminal, we did look really closely at selling and everything that comes with that. Um, cutting benefits, building up that bottom line, building up EBITDA, uh, and kind of went through the motion of that, and it, um, it...
[00:10:19] We realized very quickly it wasn't what we wanted. So we have strayed from that, and we very quickly came back.
[00:10:27] AJ (2): Um, I'm so very sorry for your loss. Thank you.
[00:10:30] Kika: Uh,
[00:10:30] AJ (2): it's, it's-
[00:10:31] Kika: They were pretty great people.
[00:10:33] AJ (2): I, I can only imagine. I, I, um, I got very close to losing both of my parents to strokes and cancer and other things over the last decade, but, um, still got them, and they're still kicking, and, uh, every day is, uh, is a bonus and is a blessing.
[00:10:50] So I, I appreciate you there. The, the... When did you take the reins of Forest City Gear?
[00:11:00] Kika: Sure. So it was a, a slow burn kind of deal. Um, as I got older, they gave me more and more of the things that they didn't enjoy doing or didn't feel like doing, didn't like doing. Uh, and so I moved up, uh, through tasks and responsibility before title, um, just because I was their kid, and they could make me do that or give that to me.
[00:11:27] Um, so I served while, uh, they were both ill as interim president for a couple years, and in 2022... Or a few years, and in 2022, when we officially decided not to sell, uh, then I, uh, officially took the reins in a long-term capacity.
[00:11:46] AJ (2): Well, I mean, you, you started working when you were a kid, right? You, you know?
[00:11:49] So, so it's, it's the, the task before title is- Well, it's always been my philosophy too. You know, it's like th- th- you, you don't know what you don't know, and you've gotta let people try something. And a title, I know some people get very enamored with a particular title or another. I mean, I'm, I'm the chief bottle washer.
[00:12:11] Uh, it's, it's... You have to retain a certain amount of humility. But, but growing up kind of doing all of the tasks, um, what did you gravitate to most when you were young? The f- the finance side of things, the actual engineering side of things, the, uh, customer-facing element? What did you, like, enjoy the most while you were growing up in the business?
[00:12:32] Kika: Yeah. So I had the luxury of starting at a very young age, and for me, what was most powerful, uh, growing up was watching the people, the people who worked here. And, um, I really gained a respect for these folks who were coming in at 4:00 or 5:00 in the morning, putting in so much overtime, um, you know, not just because it was a paycheck, but because they, uh, took pride in their craft.
[00:13:01] They liked what they were doing. They were proud to be working for Forest City Gear. And that, um, from a young age taught me a, a sense of humility. Uh, these folks are doing things, uh, to a level that I'll, I'll never be able to do. I'm not mechanically minded. I'm not a gearhead. Uh, and so it taught me a great level of respect for these folks who had this kind of a skill, uh, that they had honed and had worked towards in a craft, um, but kind of a natural skill set that I did not have.
[00:13:33] Uh, I can take a standardized test all day long, uh, but I can't break down a gear machine. And so that, that felt very important to me, which drew me to the human side of it, which for many years was the human resources side.
[00:13:47] AJ (2): Yeah. I totally get that. I, I, um, my first job out of college was at Motorola. Now I- Yeah
[00:13:55] I first interned there. Um, my mom worked there for 29 years, so, so, uh, she helped me get an in- an, an internship right out of high school. Um- And then I worked there from, what, '93 to about '90... '98. No, I think, like, '96 or '97. Anyway, for about five years. And I was initially running a manufacturing assembly line, um, out in Arlington Heights, Illinois.
[00:14:25] So, so I... And I made the mistake, I mean, I was young at the time, and I, I, uh, got an apartment less than a mile away. So of course, whenever anything happened in the factory, I, I was the one who got paged, and, uh, was always there. But I... Working with everyone out in the fact- out in the factory floor, people moving materials around on the factory floor, people on the assembly lines, the design engineers from mechanical, electrical engineering, the manufacturing engineers who were my colleagues and my, and, and my coworkers.
[00:15:04] It was, you know, I, I ended up, um, shifting into, uh, I had the opportunity to kind of create a computer integrated manufacturing group there, and, uh, had a terrific boss who just let me run with it because I was one of those, um, and, and I guess I haven't fully grown out of this, but a staff meeting, someone states a problem, I would raise my hand up, "Oh, I think I can solve that."
[00:15:27] And, and, and then the answer was, "Okay, AJ, solve it." And I'm like, "Ah, damn it." Uh, and, and I kept on doing that. But Dealing with computer operations in manufacturing taught me the same thing as it taught you, a level of respect for everyone involved.
[00:15:44] Kika: Mm-hmm.
[00:15:44] AJ (2): It doesn't matter what they are doing, if it's a vice, if it's a vice, uh, if it's a VP or someone just moving m- m- uh, just moving stuff around or working in shipping.
[00:15:57] Some of this, I think, is just learning good values from our parents, right? 'Cause they're the ones who teach us right from wrong, but I think that is something really unique about manufacturing. If you spend some time there and you wanna be good at it, you have to respect everyone involved.
[00:16:15] Kika: And if- Sure.
[00:16:16] Well, in manufacturing, leadership can't be about hierarchy, it has to be about knowledge and respecting knowledge.
[00:16:24] AJ (2): Not if it wants to be effective, at least.
[00:16:26] Kika: Yes.
[00:16:28] AJ (2): That- Agreed ... well, that is very, very true. I, I, I love that. Um, now you're a true job shop-
[00:16:34] Kika: Yep ...
[00:16:34] AJ (2): where you've got no IP of your own, and that's how you want it, right?
[00:16:39] So it's the customer's IP, and you protect that very carefully. I, I, I, I, I totally get it. Did you, did you ever move in the other direction and just decide to invest in some of your own IP, which might help, or, or, or did you ever get into, uh... Did you ever create your own products and try to turn into a product company in addition to a job shop?
[00:17:01] I mean, these kind of natural opportunities that might have come up over the years. Did you ever try that or no?
[00:17:07] Kika: Nope. Uh, I've never tried it, and neither had my dad or my grandfather. Um, uh, I guess we're just not design people. We're just makers.
[00:17:19] AJ (2): Well, well, you know what? It's, it's, um, it's a whole different thing.
[00:17:22] Sure. And I, I, I, I know when I got started, our idea was to build advanced tooling that would automate software development, and that's what we've done. So in the commercial space, and this is even before the, the, uh, latest AI stuff, but, uh, we've automated 80% of the process, right? But when I was starting out, uh, we started out just, just as a consultancy, right?
[00:17:46] Just as a job shop, but on the software side. And when I got this idea for this product and started going doing this, I went and talked to the owners of my former consulting company, and I shared this idea with them, and they're like, "Don't do it. Stay in services. Don't, don't go the product route." And, uh, for me, I didn't listen, 'cause it wasn't really what I wanted to do, but it's- It's important to know what you are good at and kind of rinse and repeat and refine, right?
[00:18:19] That's how you get really efficient at, at, at creating value for, for your, for your customers. Now, looking at your, looking at your customers and the fact that you have been around for about 70 years, what's the average length of engagement you have with your, with your existing customers? And I'm sure you, you have had some for a long, long time, but when you get, when you get customers, do you, do you manage to hold onto them for, for, uh, for, uh, decades at a time?
[00:18:43] Or like what's the average length of engagement time?
[00:18:47] Kika: Yes, we tend to hold the majority of our customers for decades. Yep.
[00:18:54] AJ (2): Once you start, I mean, you give them no reason to go anywhere else.
[00:18:57] Kika: We give them no reason to go anywhere else. And usually if they're coming to us, uh, they don't have a lot of other options by that point.
[00:19:05] AJ (2): Hmm. So on, on that side, where have you focused on innovating in this space? I mean, you, you, you have been very careful to ar- to, to articulate the exact niche you are in.
[00:19:18] Kika: Mm-hmm.
[00:19:18] AJ (2): Being relatively horizontal, but again, being, um, in a very niche horizontal- Right ... and as it were. So, um, so, so kind of two questions.
[00:19:27] One, where have you focused your investments in time, energy, and capital on innovation over the last many years? And the second question, um-
[00:19:39] Have you, have you, have you considered verticalizing some of your service offerings?
[00:19:47] Kika: So, uh, from a capital standpoint, where we put, uh dollars towards innovation. So of course, first and foremost is gear cutting technology. Uh, we do three types of gear cutting, gear hobbing, gear shaping, and gear grinding. And we like to have the best machines. Um, so in gear grinding, there's, uh, CAP gear grinders, Reishauer gear grinders, um, that are really, really excellent, uh, brands and are always on the cutting edge of gear cutting technology.
[00:20:21] A- and gear shaping, you know, you have several great brands as well, like Gleason. Um, so we're putting dollars into the gear cutting equipment, and then- Mm-hmm ... of course, into the gear inspection equipment. We need to prove that the tolerances we say we're holding are what we're holding. So there's a significant investment in both analytical gear checkers as well as CMMs- Mm-hmm
[00:20:43] and then other gauging, um, and, uh, uh, other types of equipment for inspection, uh, for in-process inspection and things like that. Um, sh- we have branched out, and again, still within that, that pathway of gearing, uh, for example, uh, you make a gear out of a gear blank. Think of it like a gear donut before you've cut the teeth in.
[00:21:05] So up until about 15 years ago, we did not do any of our own gear blanks. We outsourced 100% of that work. We had one old manual turning, uh, machine, lathe, one old lathe. Mm-hmm. Uh, and we didn't do any of our turning and milling for our gear blanks in-house. Today we do 95% of that in-house, uh, because we found that we needed to better control the quality, uh, as well as delivery, and the only way we could do that was by bringing it in-house.
[00:21:37] Um, same with certain types of inspection, NPI, uh, MAG particle, things like that. We have found that to, to better control the quality as well as our own timeline for delivery, we needed to bring things like that in-house. So while we're not going outside of the gearing, we are investing in specific technologies that are, um, fully relevant to the gears.
[00:22:01] AJ (2): I love it. I, I, I mean-
[00:22:06] Manufacturing is fundamentally about figuring out how to build high quality products quickly and at a reasonable cost. Fundamental. And I, I, I... Even though I'm in the software space, we have the same ethos. From, from our side, we are focused on building software products. And what's interesting is, is what you're describing is high precision manufacturing.
[00:22:40] Precision matters in these things. If you want a product to be durable, if you want it to, um, last when it's in orbit or in deep space or in a critical defense application, um, you need a high level of consistency, precision, predictability, and obviously you need to invest in the equipment in order to make it work, and probably also in the training on that equipment and the servicing and the calibration of that equipment to get ahead of this.
[00:23:13] This is that kind of long-term vision and payback, right? I, I, I love that because again, on the software side of things, that type of precision in terms of architecture and predictability of code is something that we've embraced for a long, long time. And now, in the wonderful world of generative AI and these, and these LLMs, um, things are a little different.
[00:23:40] Uh, the industry... Well, some people are, shall we say, a little overly enthusiastic ab-ab, uh, about it, about, about its use and are viat coding things. And for rapid prototyping, go to town. That's a, that, that is a, that is a terrific tool for accelerating documentation and d- and design and other processes that are kind of part of the product life cycle.
[00:24:06] There are lots of opportunities to use AI very effectively without getting into the AI slop, without negatively... Uh, look, you have to protect the precision of the product that you are prod- you are, you are prod- you are producing. And I think when people think of physical products, makes a lot of sense, right?
[00:24:28] It's kind of, uh, like, yeah, duh, I need, I, I need consistency. I need, I need quality at a reasonable cost that I can predict, and I, and, and all of that is, is, is sen- is sensible. On the software space, some folks just don't care so much. Eh, whatever. So like the, the, the
[00:24:52] Again, maybe I'm the old man telling kids to stay off the g- off of the grass, but I, I don't really think so. 'Cause when you've been around for a while and you've, you, you, you, you've chosen a niche, I mean, you've... You need to master the timeless fundamentals of any particular business. Manufacturing gearing on your s- on your side, manufacturing software products on our side, and when you dig into that, you realize there are some timeless principles that don't change.
[00:25:26] And that's something that, um, uh, resonates very strongly with me. And it's, it's, it's funny, I always look to, I w- I, I always look to your space for inspiration on the soft- on the software front. So the challenge that I've given to our team is how can we increase the quality of the products that we build for our customers or that our customers build with our equipment?
[00:25:53] How can we improve the efficiency of that process so we can deliver higher quality products in less time for less money? Because isn't that fundamentally the equation for creating maximum value, right? I mean, if you don't do that, you're missing something, aren't you?
[00:26:14] Kika: Well, we always say at Forest City Gear, "Quality, price, delivery, pick two."
[00:26:23] AJ (2): Interesting. Int- interesting. So that's the traditional iron triangle, right?
[00:26:30] Kika: Sure. Uh- It's
[00:26:32] AJ (2): a
[00:26:32] Kika: true triangle in my opinion, at least in manufacturing.
[00:26:36] AJ (2): No, I, I get you. But Haven't you noticed that with the advancement in, in the tooling you have invested in and, and the machinery you have invested in, only investing in those areas can really improve all three legs Because at the end of the day, I mean, if you compare where, where you are at today in, in your ability to deliver quality, i- i- in order to deliver all three things, right?
[00:27:11] Uh, that combination of quality, delivery, and cost, right?
[00:27:17] Kika: Well, we like to say value.
[00:27:19] AJ (2): Value. Value. I understand. Um- Right If you need to, if, if you need to maybe not break the iron triangle, but to deliver improvements in all three, really the only way to do that is to invest in further automation and the equipment and the process around the actual manufacturing of it.
[00:27:44] Would, would you agree with that or no?
[00:27:46] Kika: I would agree that that's half of it.
[00:27:49] AJ (2): Okay. What's, what's the other half?
[00:27:51] Kika: The people. Right. Investing in the training and the... Oh, listen, I truly, I think AI is great. We have a, a 27-year-old kid who is focused on figuring out the best ways to implement AI. He's creating a, a cutting i- a cutting tool inventory system.
[00:28:10] He's- Terrific ... streamlining our shipping label processes. He's doing some great stuff for very boring and mundane tasks. So I'm not anti-AI. Mm-hmm. I'm super pro-AI, super pro-automation. I think it's great. But that's never going to replace people, because just in the last couple years, you see the, the more people are utilizing AI, and, and especially as this younger generation comes up, and I have kids, uh, who are at the tail end of this generation- Mm-hmm
[00:28:40] um, the, the more easily accessible knowledge is, the poorer the critical thinking skills are. And so it's really, really, um, important to me to embrace technology, right? But also to embrace the people, because no matter how good it gets, the people, even flawed people, are going to be better.
[00:29:03] AJ (2): I get you. Uh, the, the- When we came out with, with the first version of our product in, uh, 2000 and we were generating lots of code, w- I, I, I would go and demo it and the feedback that I would get from engineers was like, "Oh, oh my God, I'm gonna lose my job because this is doing what I can do."
[00:29:31] And, uh, and, and my answer then was this, my same answer to-to-today is like: "Listen, have you ever known anyone to run out of work?" No. You run out of time and you run out of money. You don't run out of work. So I, I'm in complete agreement with you. It's like everyone is worried about losing their jobs and they can't be because the question you have to ask is, listen, if you can find a way to do your job more effectively, more efficiently, and more productively, why wouldn't you embrace that?
[00:30:09] Right? I mean, what's funny is that in, in the consulting world, you know, I, I, I, I worked in that world for quite some time and when I was starting out, I was, I, I, I was building our... We were building out our first, um, version of our accelerator product which generates huge amounts of very high quality code and it's, and it's still, you know, now we're on the 11th generation of our product.
[00:30:33] So we've had this for a little while. But even way back when, uh, I, I, I re- I reached out to the head of sales of my former consulting company and I showed him this thing and like, "Look what it can do. You, it's, you can be so much more efficient and build higher quality products in less time, less money."
[00:30:53] And his, and his comment to me is like, "AJ, why would you ever do anything to reduce your billable hours?" And I, I was just kind of floored because I'm like, "Okay, so if you were driving a taxi and I got in, I needed to get from point A to point B, you wanna run up the meter. Is that what you're telling me?"
[00:31:18] So that's the Th- that kind of set me in a particular frame where the only thing that I really care about now is finding ways to create more value for my customers more efficiently.
[00:31:35] Kika: Sure.
[00:31:35] AJ (2): Right? And if AI can help me do that, wonderful. But you can't do that and sacrifice quality. You can't do that and sacrifice del- d- d- d- uh, livery, and you can't do that and sacrifice value.
[00:31:52] It has to be a net total improvement. And, uh, your, your comment on critical thinking versus quick access to knowledge is s- spot on. I don't have the answer to that because... I don't know, um, maybe this is a very Gen X thing, uh, for me anyway. Uh, but work is therapy. If it's hard, it means it's something to learn, right?
[00:32:22] And, and what, what, what, what, what I teach my 10-year-old daughter whenever she, um, fails at, fails at something. She tries something and it doesn't work, or she doesn't get the, you know, she, uh, she, uh, doesn't get every problem right, or she's playing sports and she, she, sh- she doesn't do well. All, all of those failures are opportunities to learn.
[00:32:44] But the investments you are fundamentally making is more in the people than it is just the equipment. But if you, if you're smart about that and make long-term investments in equipment and commensurate long-term investments in the people, isn't that kind of the fundamental formula for long-term success and resiliency to adapt to whatever might be changing, which is usually quite a bit?
[00:33:14] Kika: Yeah. That's what we believe at Forest of the Gear. Invest as much in your people as you do in your equipment.
[00:33:21] AJ (2): Well, Kika, what's next for you? What are you looking forward to in the next, in the next 12 months?
[00:33:29] Kika: Sure. So we're excited, again, about continuing investments. Uh, we have some new customer partnerships I think are pretty exciting.
[00:33:41] We, uh, had our biggest shipping month ever in March of this year. Uh, so we are on a, a balanced growth trajectory, uh, that I feel really proud of. And, um, just more of the same, but man, we're loving it and having fun.
[00:33:58] AJ (2): That is terrific. Um, I, I-
[00:34:05] If there's one message you wanna give to our audience, what would that be? What would you wanna pass on to others that, that, that would help them
[00:34:21] handle the very dynamic market right at the moment. And, and, and what's your advice to others who might be in a similar space?
[00:34:35] Kika: Yeah Ooh. I think I would talk to other privately held and family held businesses about culture and legacy. Those are really important things to me, and can be kind of empty or hollow buzzwords.
[00:34:51] Uh, but I think when you think about your legacy and you look at your family-owned business, if you're second, third, fourth generation, your legacy, I think we get, we get caught up in kind of a legacy trap where we- Mm ... focus on the past, and your legacy should absolutely be your foundation. It should absolutely be something you're proud of.
[00:35:15] It should ab- absolutely be the way your story starts, right? But your legacy is not the way your story ends. It's a foundation. It shouldn't be limiting. So when you're talking about, you know, your c- your business legacy, your company legacy, your family legacy, that's the start. That's not the end, and don't let that limit you from continuing to build your story.
[00:35:38] My dad, my grandparents, my mom, they, they did tons of super cool things that I'm really proud to have benefited from, but they're not going to fully define what I do. They're- Of course ... that's just the first part. So, so that would be my number one thing is, is in family businesses, I think sometimes we feel like that legacy can be an anchor when it should be a buoy.
[00:36:02] Um, and then the second part is culture. And again, uh, like I said, one of those maybe hollow words. Uh- No,
[00:36:09] AJ (2): what
[00:36:09] Kika: hollow? But man, I... Manufacturing is really hard, right? It can be physically hard- Yep ... to stand on your feet all day and be at a machine and be moving parts around, and it's also mentally difficult.
[00:36:23] I mean, even if you're doing high volume, you have to pay attention to part 706 as much as you did to parts one, two, and three, and part 1,582. You know? I mean, it demands a level of precision and, and attention that I think other things don't demand in the same way. And so I just think that focusing on your culture is the best thing you can do for your business.
[00:36:49] Your, your customers feel your culture.
[00:36:51] AJ (2): They
[00:36:51] Kika: do. Uh, bottom line feels your culture. You have lower turnover with good culture. I, there's n- if you truly focus on culture, it makes the community in which you live better, it makes your customer satisfaction levels better. It makes the lives of the people who work for you better.
[00:37:11] Uh, there's just both capitalist and altruistic reasons why you should focus on culture. And again, I know it's like this buzzword and people got, you know, so LinkedIn-y about it, but- But truly just focus on your culture. Make your people happy and proud to work there, and it has so many benefits. Again, self-serving and altruistic benefits.
[00:37:40] AJ (2): I, uh, you nailed it. I, I, I think the
[00:37:47] The culture fundamentally defines your legacy more than anything else. And the For some people, culture or, you know, core values is a buzzword. It's something that you do in a conference room 'cause somebody tells you you need to have them and, and, and you come up with a mission statement. "Yeah, these are our values."
[00:38:10] And it's very shallow and hollow. That doesn't build a culture. Where you can build a culture and, and, and you're, you're so, you're so right about this, um, you need to live those values. Um, you need to hire to those values. You need to fire to those values. You need to be able to look in the mirror and judge yourself, like, "Am I living up to our core values?"
[00:38:36] And the thing is we're all, we're all human, so far anyway, right? Um, and no one is gonna be perfect, but if you don't clearly define a set of values that are central to your culture, to your company's culture... And, and honestly, you know how this is. Your company's culture is derived from your culture. The culture of an organization comes from the top down and is a reflection of the leadership.
[00:39:06] So if you have a culture like, uh, you know, if a leader values their people, no matter at what level within the organization, if your leader respects your people, if, if a leader knows that the right thing to do for the business and just fundamentally the right thing to do is to invest in those people for the long run, that speaks to a level of integrity, which is, um, honestly a little rare, but is really good to hear about, Ketria.
[00:39:39] So I, I'm, I'm, I'm, uh, so very grateful to, um, have you on our, on our podcast. Thanks for your time and for sharing. I think this is, um, these are fundamental lessons and values and, and a vision that, um, we should embrace. And I also like what you said about looking at things through a capitalist lens and an altruistic lens.
[00:40:05] The way that I put it is, all right, you know, you ask the question, my kind of standard broken record question is what is the right thing to do, right? Fundamentally, I ask that of myself 100 times a day of my people. And you have to ask it through a couple different lenses. One is just fundamentally, right?
[00:40:24] The other is, all right, put your Machiavelli l- put your Machiavelli lens on and ask the same question. And The truth is, when it comes to working with your people, Machiavelli would take really good care of his people because that would give you the best return on that investment. And you invest in your people, you can't have that investment walking out the door, so you take care of them.
[00:40:54] So through either one of these lenses, but you have to look at these different lenses as ultimately we're all capitalists here. So anyway, um, I really appreciate you, uh, you, uh, Kika. I wish you and, uh, Forest City Gear, uh, a terrific year, and I look forward to meeting you in person someday.
[00:41:13] Kika: Yeah, anytime you're in the neighborhood.
[00:41:15] If I had known you were just nearby, I would've forked your hand to come on out and do this in person. But, uh, we're about 90 miles northwest of Chicago, so anytime you're in the area, we'd be happy to host, host you.
[00:41:26] AJ (2): Wonderful. We will make it work. Thanks so much.
[00:41:30] Kika: Thanks, AJ.
[00:41:32] AJ (2): Thanks for listening to this episode of "The Value Creation Mindset."
[00:41:35] I'm AJ Singh. If this episode helped you, please follow the show, leave a rating, and share it with one person who you think it will benefit. For show notes and more, visit modularis.com/podcast. See you next time.