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TBPN is a live tech talk show hosted by John Coogan and Jordi Hays, streaming weekdays from 11–2 PT on X and YouTube, with full episodes posted to Spotify immediately after airing.
Described by The New York Times as “Silicon Valley’s newest obsession,” TBPN has interviewed Mark Zuckerberg, Sam Altman, Mark Cuban, and Satya Nadella. Diet TBPN delivers the best moments from each episode in under 30 minutes.
We are back and We missed you.
Speaker 2:Two weeks is a crazy amount of time to be away.
Speaker 1:I don't understand how children do this for weeks or months at a time. It's wild. It's wild. It's crazy.
Speaker 2:There's a lot of video
Speaker 1:games. I was sitting there.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:I had somebody this morning say, it feels like it must have gone by so fast. Oh. And I and I was thinking, no. It actually didn't go by fast at all. It felt like Yeah.
Speaker 1:It felt like two months.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Did feel like two months.
Speaker 1:We manipulated time.
Speaker 2:Yeah. But thank you to the Microsoft team, the Activision team. They sent us codes for Modern Warfare four. My review is in. It's fantastic.
Speaker 2:I love it. It's a really good game. Really polished. And the Kill Blog
Speaker 1:Did you revert back at all No. To
Speaker 2:Didn't really have the opportunity. I I was I was joking about full relapse just gaming from dusk till dawn, but that is
Speaker 1:I in fact had a relapse
Speaker 2:in the
Speaker 1:cards these days. Pizza. Pizza. I was eating pizza like twice a day at times.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Was eating a lot of pizza.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Surfing a lot.
Speaker 2:That's good. Do you think pizza is potentially addictive?
Speaker 1:I do.
Speaker 2:You think that there could be a settlement?
Speaker 1:I do think I I don't think there could. I think there should.
Speaker 2:There should be. I I do wonder, like, because cigarettes, it was very cigarettes were very, scientifically proven to be addictive. Like, you can give nicotine to a mouse and it will, go and try and get more nicotine. Like, it's the most cut and dry. You can run the experiment with, you know, any animal
Speaker 1:the Based on my own personal experience, pizza and surfing fall into that same bucket.
Speaker 2:Oh, you give a
Speaker 4:mouse a Yeah.
Speaker 2:If you give a mouse a cookie
Speaker 1:Give a mouse a barrel.
Speaker 2:A barrel. He's gonna want to with a lime.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Yeah. For
Speaker 2:sure. But it it will be interesting to see where the addiction stuff goes because when when all this came up, you know, the meta social media addiction, I was kind of like Give a mouse to a like, I understand that people were trying to I don't know. Can you get mice or monkeys addicted to reels?
Speaker 1:Maybe. I'm sure. Almost certainly.
Speaker 2:You think you could get a monkey addicted to Instagram reels?
Speaker 1:I I think a 100%. Well, got you. We got a 100%.
Speaker 2:We're gonna find out.
Speaker 1:We can't get any monkeys because they're they're sold out?
Speaker 2:No. No. You can get a monkey. You just have to pay top dollar. Okay.
Speaker 2:They're they're expensive.
Speaker 1:Buy the van.
Speaker 2:But you you can you can buy one. It did seem like it was a it was a tougher sell because it was not a chemically addictive product. It was more of a psychological thing. There's a benefit to it. There's a free speech element.
Speaker 2:All very complicated. I was not expecting to see a big settlement when this first came up years ago. I thought it was going to be more nickel and diming little case by case things. But in fact, there has been a huge settlement by Meta. Two days ago, or this was when this was written, this was August 26, Meta announced settlements with attorneys general representing 48 states and the District Of Columbia and three US territories, so there were only two states that held back, I believe it's Texas and New Mexico, over allegations that Facebook and Instagram harmed children and teens.
Speaker 2:So, this has been boiling up for a while. There were smaller settlements. This is the big one. And so, the high level numbers here. Meta will pay the states 12,700,000,000 over ten years, and it could go up to 18,000,000,000 if other platforms join the settlement.
Speaker 2:Is a sizable It's a big number. It is a big number. And honestly, if you are a state legislator or you care about having your state funded for a variety of things, this is good news. This is a size gong moment for the states because they will be getting this money distributed to them and they can use that to do whatever states do from education to healthcare. There's a lot of different things that states can do.
Speaker 2:I know Tyler's pissed because he isn't like the government getting a dime, but but it is a seizagogue moment for them.
Speaker 4:I did find a a video of a chimpanzee hitting reels. We can pull
Speaker 1:this Let's pull this up. This is This is key. This is important. This is very Definitely more important than
Speaker 2:Oh. Okay. Yeah. This looks okay. Maybe maybe maybe social media is addictive.
Speaker 2:Now that I'm seeing this, this is yeah. It might be universal. If it crosses, wow.
Speaker 1:Using it so intuitively?
Speaker 2:Yep. Yep. I mean, that's just good UI design. Come on. You gotta give the the UX engineer some credit here.
Speaker 2:Make it so easy to use that even a monkey could use it. That was the prompt. If it crosses species barriers, I'm much more likely to agree that something could be addictive. But
Speaker 1:Well, and here especially, you know, he's looking at
Speaker 2:other monkeys. Oh, okay. That's a little I don't know.
Speaker 1:Yeah. No. Know. But in algo feed, it's gonna naturally
Speaker 2:start a
Speaker 1:lot of those videos.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Yeah. Makes sense. Anyway, everyone has been drawing analogies to the tobacco industry's Master Settlement Agreement around this because that's the last time there was a huge multi billion, tens of billions of dollars settlement between a large organization around addiction and a bunch of states. That's what's happened when cigarette companies signed the master settlement agreement, all of the companies agreeing to pay all the states.
Speaker 2:But the structure was a little bit different and there's some nuance there. And so Eric Suits over at Mobile Dev Memo, friend of the show said, Meta settlement is no big tobacco moment. That was his takeaway in Mobile Dev Memo. You should go subscribe because this post is a paid paid post. But I'll take you through some of the interesting analysis that he put together.
Speaker 2:I was debating with a lawyer friend of mine about this over the weekend and have some interesting details here. So the headline here is that what Meta is going to pay as a percentage of revenue or what the social media industry will pay as a percentage of revenue relative to what the tobacco industry paid as a percentage of revenue is off by almost an order of magnitude. So let's put them in context here. So he says Meta's settlement is comparatively paltry. A white paper from the USDA using BLS data estimates that the total U.
Speaker 2:S. Consumer expenditure on tobacco products in 1998, when the master settlement agreement was signed, was roughly $57,000,000,000 a year. Annualizing the roughly $250,000,000,000 in combined tobacco settlement payments over twenty five years produces an average of $10,000,000,000 per year is what they've been paying. And so that was equivalent to 17.5% in 1998 domestic expenditure. So you could think about it as like when tobacco got hit with like, you're addictive, what did the government say you gotta pay?
Speaker 2:They asked for 17 and a half percent. Very, very meaningful. Very meaningful.
Speaker 1:And that's that's off the top. Right?
Speaker 2:Yes. Yes. This is revenue.
Speaker 1:It's not like, hey, you got to give us a percentage of your profits.
Speaker 2:Yes. And so it's calculated in a more complicated way. It's not exactly a percentage. It's on a per pack sold, but it is inflation adjusted. And so there's a whole bunch of other mechanics that really have allowed the master settlement agreement to deliver tens of billions of dollars on an ongoing basis, even while now tobacco sales are slumping, cigarette sales are declining, and so that does create more complex dynamics for the states.
Speaker 2:But still, it's 17.5% of the industry's revenue coming to states as effectively an extra tax on top, which I think a lot of people would agree is good because cigarettes are bad. Right? But what's going on with Meta and social media? So given Meta's full year 2025 US revenue of 75,000,000,000 roughly, per the company's 10 k, its average annual payment, if they pay the full 18,000,000,000 because they're paying that over ten years, it's 1,800,000,000. So what is 1,800,000,000 of 75,000,000,000?
Speaker 2:It's 2.4%. So instead of 17 and 0.5
Speaker 1:Sorry. Percent Where are you getting the 75,000,000,000?
Speaker 2:75,000,000,000 was their US revenue US.
Speaker 1:Globally globally, it was
Speaker 2:like a couple 100. Yeah. Bigger. Bigger. But but you have to comp it to domestic because that's where this is taking effect.
Speaker 2:Right? It would be even lower if you look at overall revenue for Yeah. Which is a good point. But you can think about it as tobacco had to pay 17 and a half percent of domestic revenue. Social media, 2.5% of domestic revenue.
Speaker 2:So not quite an order of magnitude, but a significant gap, significant gap there. And so it's important to reiterate here, says Eric Suits over at MobileDeb Memo, that the MSA payment, the master settlement agreement payment schedule, is inflation adjusted and tracks unit sales. Meta's statement settlement has no such mechanism. So let's say that Meta doubles revenue, their percentage they'll pay is lower. And then let's say inflation kicks in, they're still gonna be paying, you know, this $1,800,000,000 a year ten years from now.
Speaker 2:Could be could be pennies if if hyperinflation happens.
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Who
Speaker 1:knows? Yeah. The only reason it felt somewhat significant Yeah. From a dollar standpoint is because man Meta is just spending so much money on AI.
Speaker 2:Right? Interesting.
Speaker 1:You can just imagine Zach being like, I really wish I could have given that to Jensen. Right?
Speaker 2:So I had the opposite. I had the opposite read, which was I saw 18,000,000,000, and I was like, ah, that's like, you know, a month of AI spend for them. And I was like, ah, this is not that much money. And then, of course, it's over ten years. And so when you think about it as it's $1,800,000,000 a year, so that's 100 mil a month.
Speaker 2:That's their token budget right now. I don't know. Maybe less.
Speaker 1:No. It Over overall, it's it's it's insignificant. Yeah. But when when they are spending more money than they are making
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:It it hurts a little bit more.
Speaker 2:Mike Isaac's been reporting on this. He says Meta is going full bore with pushing other companies to add the same restrictions it will add to its apps as part of the settlement. Meta plans to run this copy as a full print full page print advertisement in the Washington Post, Los Angeles Times, and the New York Times tomorrow morning. Wow. A little back a little circular deal for Mike promoting the New York Times.
Speaker 2:He works there. Man, undisclosed. What's going on? No.
Speaker 1:Yeah. And and and it is just very wonderful spend to get Okay. To to be forced to pay $17,000,000,000 settlement for getting children addicted to your product and then tell other social other addictive social media companies to join us in supporting teens. It's just chef's kiss from
Speaker 2:You think it should be like join us in apologizing as well, basically?
Speaker 1:Well, I I just think it's a good spin.
Speaker 2:That's Okay. Well, here here here's what they said. Through this agreement, they've set out a path toward industry wide commitments to further empower parents by introducing a two hour daily time limit, turning off access to our apps at night as a default, no notifications during school hours, clear prompts and notifications to teens every fifteen minutes of continuous screen time, new parental supervision control so parents can decide how their teens use their apps. I think all this makes sense. Defaults are powerful.
Speaker 2:So even if, you know, a parent wants to go in and and and allow their kid because they've got a night owl who's cooking up an incredible new IG account and is printing or something. I don't know. There I mean, there are plenty of good reasons to use social media even while you're young. But but defaults are powerful, and and I think this is a good thing. I don't think it affects the business that much.
Speaker 2:I don't think they make that much money from young people because kids don't buy cars on Instagram, like expensive things, whereas a lot of millennials and even Gen Xers and boomers are on there shopping all the time. So the immediate revenue impact of any of these is minimal. You just don't want to wind up in a situation where you lose ground to TikTok and YouTube because they become the kid friendly one that the kids are like, oh, well, TikTok doesn't have any of these stupid restrictions, so I'm gonna use that. And then they remain a user for their entire life, and you lose an entire
Speaker 1:the main yeah. Mean, if if somebody is primarily addicted to Instagram Yep. And they get their two two hour budget
Speaker 2:Yep.
Speaker 1:And historically, they would have used the product for three, four hours, you have that spillover attention. So it will potentially help less addictive addictive social media platforms Yeah. Get more get more user minutes.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. And and this was the original Instagram threat was that a younger generation was using Instagram and Facebook was gonna become like the, what do they call it, the blue app or the old old book or something. I don't know.
Speaker 2:It was gonna only maintain the the older cohort. And that's sort of what happened, but it didn't matter because Meta bought Instagram. Then Snapchat was even like the younger crowd. They tried to buy it. They couldn't.
Speaker 2:They wound up cloning it. They were successful. And so the the the company maintained, but they can't let a new social media app come up and dominate kids. Not for the short term monetization. For it's for the long term
Speaker 1:monetization. They don't mention snap in the open letter. Is that a is that a shots fired?
Speaker 2:It's a dig.
Speaker 1:A subtle dig?
Speaker 2:I think so. I don't know. Tim Cook sent a final memo to Apple employees on his last day as CEO. He said, I will miss this work in ways
Speaker 3:I can only begin to imagine.
Speaker 2:Even as I remain completely at peace with my decision. Just reading the entire
Speaker 1:memo and
Speaker 2:reading it. But I will miss it. He's a workaholic. He doesn't wanna he doesn't wanna retire. I was really hoping he would have another thirty year run-in him, you know?
Speaker 2:Like, if if Warren Buffett and Charlie Munger can work till they're in their nineties, why can't Tim Cook? Like, what
Speaker 3:fundamentally, how is the job I think he was unhappy with pay.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Well, we I mean, when you have when
Speaker 1:you have MLB players making as much money as you while you're running one of the companies in history, when you're one of the greatest CEOs in history, period.
Speaker 3:Yeah. And you can barely
Speaker 2:75. 74.3. They can't even get him over 75.
Speaker 1:Yeah. And no and and not enough people were willing to march on Cupertino Yeah. In protest Yeah. Of this. Right?
Speaker 1:And so I think at some point, he's like, look, if people if, you know, shareholders
Speaker 2:Yeah. I'm voting with my feet. I'm voting Exactly. I'm voting with my feet. I'm out.
Speaker 2:I'm out. In the news today in in the Wall Street Journal, booming corporate earnings fuel lofty outlooks. The economy is doing very well. A lot of that's driven by tariff refunds. Tim Cook, I mean, people people lament like the lack of like an entirely new form factor.
Speaker 2:The Vision Pro wasn't a breakout success. Like, a lot of the great devices still came from the Steve Jobs era and Tim Cook merely managed and carried everything along. Did so much on the services side that no one really gives him credit for with advertising in the app store and just money printing machine working flawlessly. But he also negotiated like a very tumultuous political environment for a decade or more, essentially flawlessly. Like, the fact that Donald Trump has never called Tim Cook, Tim Crook is a huge huge feather in his cap.
Speaker 1:I agree.
Speaker 2:Because it was sitting right there as a as a Trump style dig Never
Speaker 1:had to go for it.
Speaker 2:He never had to go for it. And so he was able to negotiate Washington and all of the different, you know, quagmires that are there, not get his supply chain nuked, keep the keep the products flowing. There were little little hiccups here and there. But overall, the company has been firing on all cylinders. So what a great send off.
Speaker 2:You can go read the full letter. Apple Vision Pros layoffs went beyond video and gaming. It included employees across the company, including people working on device security, audio engineering, Siri integration, testing, and the product's operating system. They are focused on AI devices. And people are really optimistic about the new Mac m six chip, like, just being really good for AI and being something that continues to to drive value for the company and creates, like an AI winner narrative in the face of not really spending any money on AI in the traditional sense.
Speaker 2:Not not buying a NeoLab, not buying a bunch of data centers, staying out of the weeds, but still benefiting because these powerful computers get only more powerful when you have computer use.
Speaker 1:It still is so crazy they haven't pulled the trigger on a NeoLab.
Speaker 2:I don't think they need to.
Speaker 1:Like
Speaker 2:I don't think they will. I think they're just gonna be a hardware company. That's what they do. They're like NeoLab is software. They don't need software.
Speaker 1:Now, I I I think the strategy is working. Yeah. But if you asked me a year ago, will Apple make a 500 to $1,000,000,000 acquisition Yeah. Of a NeoLab, just a talent acquisition.
Speaker 2:Is that a NeoLab for ants? What are you talking about?
Speaker 4:Yeah. What NeoLab can buy for 500?
Speaker 2:$500,000,000 NeoLab?
Speaker 1:I'm not gonna name names, but there's been some NeoLabs that would raise a 100 on 500.
Speaker 2:Isn't there a NeoLab that you were just on the phone with that they could maybe pick up?
Speaker 1:Oh, yeah. Charleston AI.
Speaker 2:Do we have a video of Charleston AI?
Speaker 1:Yeah. Let's pull up Charleston AI.
Speaker 2:Cupertino, Charleston. I think there's something there, potentially.
Speaker 1:I actually think that you could rapidly scale a franchise business that takes the Charleston AI concept, gives somebody all the programming and all the different product offerings, and then helps local entrepreneurs set up their own
Speaker 2:I think that's what Charleston AI does.
Speaker 1:No. I know. But I think Charleston AI needs to go global.
Speaker 2:Oh. Okay.
Speaker 3:I'm one of the cofounders of Charleston AI. We're local to Charleston, and we're here to help humans help humans with AI. And here is our lab. This is where AI comes alive. What used to take months to get accomplished, we can do in hours for you.
Speaker 3:Here we have an empty office available for somebody that wants to make Charleston AI their home. Charleston AI's conference room where our clients come in, individuals and small businesses come in, and we discuss what it is they'd like to do with AI in their business or personally. We listen very carefully, take notes, and make sure we get it right, and then we offer them a way to make it work. AI is not
Speaker 2:Now, you called Charleston AI. Correct? Correct. Who answered the phone?
Speaker 4:So, yeah, one of the founders answered the phone, but it an AI version of him. And it sounded exactly like his voice.
Speaker 2:That's pretty impressive. Yeah. That's why
Speaker 1:I yeah. It's a very funny video but I'm I I think it's actually
Speaker 2:A good business. A
Speaker 1:good business. Yeah. Probably. And I think it should exist. Like some people
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:They're curious about AI. Maybe they're running a small business. Maybe they're a freelancer. Maybe they're a teacher or whatever. Yeah.
Speaker 1:It's nice to just drive by something and go in somewhere and talk to real people that are in your community to learn about something Yeah. That's complicated and sometimes scary. Yeah. So I mean very in favor of it.
Speaker 2:Didn't Best Buy build a whole like Geek Squad team for exactly acquired.
Speaker 1:They acquired Geek Squad.
Speaker 2:Oh. Was it over or under 500,000,000? Let's find out. Anyway, there's an interesting story. Yes.
Speaker 1:Acquired. Read acquired. Wow.
Speaker 2:Geek Squad.
Speaker 1:That would be cool. Yeah. New Charleston AI on wheels.
Speaker 2:On wheels. Oh, they come to
Speaker 1:you. Mobile data centers.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 1:That can come to you.
Speaker 2:The Why we need the local
Speaker 4:The geeks want to be local is only you. 300-0000. What? 300-0000.
Speaker 2:300-0000.
Speaker 4:2002.
Speaker 2:It's not bad for back then.
Speaker 1:That's like 400,000,000 in today's dollars, Tyler. I I know it was before you were born, but that was a lot of money back then.
Speaker 2:Yeah. OpenAI has reportedly bought tens of thousands of Mac minis and Mac studios for reinforcement learning and training computer use agents, while Anthropic rents Mac Minis through AWS. Oh, you can rent Mac Minis through AWS. That's interesting. I didn't know that.
Speaker 2:The information reported this. I was playing around with computer use over the break. Had a lot of fun. I had Codex try and beat Bellatro, this poker style game that I like to play on on PC. It did okay.
Speaker 2:It wasn't it it it was a little slow still, and I don't think it I don't think it actually won the full game. But it's fun watching it, like, play a new game. I saw that demo of beating Slay the Spire, which is pretty impressive because it's a hard game. I I like the I like the codex or or ChatGPT playing the game. I want to see the latency come down.
Speaker 2:I wanna see it play Modern Warfare because I wanna play against it. And I wanna see who's better, me or the AI. In somewhat related news to the to the speed of inference, OpenAI's Jalapeno is spicy, says Dylan Patel. Dylan Patel says OpenAI's Jalapeno is spicy. Usually, first generation chips aren't competitive, but OpenAI is beating NVIDIA Blackwell and even Rubin.
Speaker 2:This is huge news. We got to go into OpenAI's lab to dissect their new chip and dive into the software architecture and performance. Incredible work. There's a bunch of interesting details about this chip. OpenAI put a whole blog post, but to clarify some important points, this is an LLM inference chip, not designed for training, but the results are really good.
Speaker 2:So roughly 1.5 to 1.9 x more useful inference throughput per watt than NVIDIA GB 200, GB 300 systems, while simultaneously cutting end to end latency 1.7 to 3.6 x. So faster inference, less latency, but also just your dollars and your energy, your watts are going to go a lot further, which is very, very good. It's a data center rack scale system. I would love to get this in the consumer device, shrink it down, do something there. But it's going in the data center.
Speaker 2:And they're gonna do a lot of them. Did you know the size of the Broadcom deal? 10 gigawatts of this chip. Okay. It might not be exactly this chip.
Speaker 2:It could be the Gen two, the Gen three, but the preexisting Broadcom OpenAI
Speaker 1:Put it into context, that's roughly five times more compute than the whole company currently has Yes. Operational,
Speaker 2:But this is by this is through 2029, but that's aggressive. That's like three years, three months away, I guess, can do the end of the year. Yes, 10 gigawatts of OpenAI designed accelerator systems manufactured by Broadcom or in partnership with Broadcom deployed from the second half of twenty twenty six. And the crazy thing is that, like, they're on track for the second half of twenty twenty six. Like, the the is going into production, and it's a lot faster than most people thought.
Speaker 2:The previous like industry knowledge was, yeah, any new chip is going to take years and this happened very, very quickly. So good to stretch that energy further. You need less data centers to do more inference. That's good for gross margins and also just good for the narrative of
Speaker 1:speeding things k o n e says, please tell me y'all are gonna touch, address Oh, on instinct and the 350,000,000 raise in 2,500,000,000. Yeah. Super impressive how much attention and traction Instinct has received after just they've been building the company for like four or five months, it It's like very recent. I haven't used the product yet just because giving that level of access to
Speaker 2:It's
Speaker 1:tough this new start up. I looked at I looked I mean, their terms and conditions were floating around and it kinda seemed like you're giving away the
Speaker 2:I mean, everything you get is all of your data is gonna be saved like pretty much in like a clear text database.
Speaker 1:It'll be
Speaker 2:secure but Yeah. Like they will have
Speaker 1:access. Yeah. So I wasn't ready to to try it yet even though it seems like it seems like a lot of people what's cool is it seems like people are quickly having like a magical moment. Right? Whether it's like Yes.
Speaker 1:Getting a reservation for a restaurant or movie tickets or things like that. And I think that's super super important for Mhmm. Like a consumer product Yep. For to have that sort of like short timeline. I I was reflecting on the instinct round and and my immediate thought was, well, back in my day, when a hot consumer tech company, like, caught a little bit of attention, they would get, like, a 25 on one fifty from Benchmark.
Speaker 1:And that was seen as, like, oh, wow. This is this is this company has some meaningful traction and potential, but it's just crazy to see this quickly a a company get the the $2,500,000,000 round. And I think I there's some I think that there's reasons to be a little bit wary. I wanna see I wanna see them break out of like the the VC Sure. Hype cycle with this product.
Speaker 1:So when when historically when we've seen consumer products or prosumer products, you know, I'm thinking of Clubhouse or Superhuman when there's somewhat of a question of like, the more a VC likes something Mhmm. Potentially, the less viable it is Sure. At a at a massive massive scale. Sure. Right?
Speaker 1:So it's possible that it it can but again, if they can solve the always on digital assistant, it is a massive massive opportunity. Yep. But I'm just saying they're pricing a lot of that in right now when this company is four months old Yep. And valued at like a third of the of of what Snapchat is. Right?
Speaker 2:Sure. Sure. Sure. The other the other interesting I the question I had was like, going back to Sam's post about the merge. Sam Altman wrote the merge about how, like, in the future, you might merge with AI.
Speaker 2:And I'm wondering about, like, at least in the short term, is it better to have a product like Instinct where it has your email, it has your iMessage? Or is it is it actually going to be more receptive for many people to have a degree of separation there and say, okay, I effectively have a an assistant that has its own phone and its own email. And if I want to share an email, I'll forward my email there. And maybe it has read only access to my email. But then if it's if it's gonna go book me a reservation, I want it to call from its phone number Yeah.
Speaker 2:And identify itself as someone else. Because it's like, there's a little bit of distance there. They can be like, oh, I'm still in control of sharing certain things. Maybe I share more stuff over time. And I'm wondering if there's there's more of like, should should your AI agent be Jordy or should it be like John Doe and and it's and it it's embodied?
Speaker 2:I don't know. It gets to the question of
Speaker 4:Yeah. Homophomorphization. That's the idea of the the Gwen Guardian Angels, like, company.
Speaker 2:Oh, didn't
Speaker 4:Basically, know you have like, it's not John's agent. It's like a copy of John.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 4:And then it's like a it's still a separate being, but it it acts it has like your preferences, whatever. Interesting. But it's still like a separate thing. It's not using all of your emails, text messages, stuff like that.
Speaker 2:Very, very interesting. Yeah. I don't know. I mean, I can see intelligence.
Speaker 1:We gotta talk about the world humanoid robot games.
Speaker 2:Let's do it. They set a world record. Right? They broke the speed record or something like that? This is the KGX one DAX AI robotics.
Speaker 2:This is the one. Ride a horse dog. Its legs use self developed high torque electric joint motors powered by a high voltage battery. This we've seen so many AI videos of
Speaker 1:not use like, you know, Hollywood, you know, fake flesh to make this look like Clydesdale.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 1:I think ground. Alright. Well
Speaker 2:Make legs.
Speaker 1:The legs a little bit bigger. Okay. Anyways, I'm very excited to the about, you know, this form factor. I expect to be, you know, riding autonomous Yeah. To work.
Speaker 1:Yeah. I expect this to be a a commuter product, least A land jet ski, Davis, in the in the x
Speaker 2:It is a land jet ski.
Speaker 1:Is calling it. Here's another video of one crashing and burning at high speed.
Speaker 2:Oh, wow. I didn't see this. I thought it only broke the record, but that's really sparking.
Speaker 1:That is easy. Absolute chaos. Rune had a good, like, take
Speaker 4:about the robotics thing, which is where, like, all the Chinese robots, the demos are all these, like, kinetic displays of, like, doing these like crazy dance moves or fighting or running really fast. And all The US ones are basically manipulating like small things that you do in a factory.
Speaker 2:Interesting.
Speaker 4:So it's like Seems opposite.
Speaker 2:Seems like America prides like, the the 100 meter dash more than the the fine motor skill manufacturing of things.
Speaker 4:Yeah. So so, I mean, it's We should like swap. In some ways, it's like, we're so far behind the Chinese and robotics. But, like, maybe on the actual things really matter for, you know, manufacturing, whatever, I think it's unclear.
Speaker 1:Yeah. That's good cope. That's good
Speaker 2:cope. No.
Speaker 1:That's I like that cope. Let's lean in there and cope harder.
Speaker 2:AI m and a is in full effect. We were asking questions about this maybe a year ago. Samir Kaji says, I don't think we're close to done. Cursor, 60,000,000,000. OpenRouter, 8,000,000,000.
Speaker 2:Hugging Face, 13,000,000,000. Descartes, 6,000,000,000 to 7,000,000,000, along with SPX, SpaceX, Andoril, Anthropic, Ramp, OpenAI, Databricks, and others on the IPO path. And the next few years will bring historic amounts of liquidity. Although a lot of those deals have to be for stock. Of course, if you're getting bought by a public company, it's different.
Speaker 2:But for some of those for some of those deals, like the open router, it's probably not that much liquidity in the short term. Right? But still, it's a lot. And so he says, this also likely prolongs the level of front of froth, imagine he's saying. We are seeing today, But after a long stretch of nothing, this is seriously incredible.
Speaker 2:There's been a ton of M and A. And the appetite for M and A in the unicorn, decacorn category has been remarkably resilient and significant. But it makes sense with so many trillion dollar companies paying 1% of your market cap for something that could be an entirely new business line sort of lines up. But it does change the venture capital underwriting pretty significantly. I mean, it justifies it justifies a seed at a billion dollars.
Speaker 2:If if there's a if there's 10 comps that sold for 10,000,000,000, your 10 x is still there intact today. So I don't know. Also, mean, Kevin Durant is doing well. He was a seed investor in Hugging Face. He made an estimated 467 x return on that investment that the company acquired by Twilio.
Speaker 2:He invested a 100 k check that would equate to $46,700,000. And
Speaker 1:Really? Really?
Speaker 2:Years of Investing is better than going to the club, he said in 2010. Wow. That is right. What a good and he was posting he was posting back in 2017. Exciting for the new excited for the new release of hashtag hugging face.
Speaker 2:And here's a durant.ly link. Proud investor. Durant.ly. We'll see you tomorrow. Thank you for watching the show.
Speaker 2:Great to be back.
Speaker 1:We missed you guys.
Speaker 2:We missed everyone here. Will
Speaker 1:see Got Dan there.
Speaker 2:Tomorrow. We have a very special show for you and many more throughout the fall.
Speaker 1:An honor and a privilege.
Speaker 2:We'll see you tomorrow. Goodbye. Cheers.