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I help twin and multiples parents go from surviving to thriving: from pregnancy - postpartum - relationships - raising multiples - with global experts and inspiring parent, celebrity and influencer stories.
Are you a new Gen Y or Gen Z parent or parent of twins and multiples? Do you want to thrive, rather than just survive?
Welcome to our show - a modern, step, by step guide to get you best set up for thrivival!
No outdated, frumpy or stuffy content - we're for NEW parents, we are new parents and we have found the best of the best experts, research and stories. If you're time poor - look no further - community and support building, efficiency hacks and tools, pregnancy, symptom management, partner support, body, bust, skin, hair, postpartum recovery, PND, logistics and travel, parenting twin psychology, childcare need-to-knows, returning to work and more!
I'm Emily, a twin and twin mum. I have researched extensively the best tips, efficiency hacks, expert advice. Books, white papers, medical papers, online groups, articles - sifted through it all, for you. I hope this podcast helps you best navigate this exciting time.
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Podcast: Hey There Thivival
Hey there, and welcome to the
Hey there, Thrivival podcast.
I'm your host, Emily Hague, and
on this podcast we talk everything
Extreme Parenthood, new parents
twins, multiples, et cetera.
Today's guest is the perfect
candidate because she is none other
than the national chairperson of the
Australian Multiple Births Association,
Silje Anderson Cook, she's also
a lawyer, mom to one, and then.
Surprise triplets.
she's very engaged, highly
motivated, and really insightful.
She spends a lot of time with
government in Australia driving
policy and also collaborating
internationally with global bodies.
So this is going to be a
really interesting chat.
We're going to talk about where are
we at and where have we come from?
Have we gone backwards?
also what are the issues
multiples actually need help with?
How does it really differ
from a single birth?
Why are we all paying tax,
but multiple births are not
getting the commensurate rate.
Also, what can you do as a member of
the community to help get this in front
of politicians and help to get change?
if you enjoy today's podcast, make
sure you hit that subscribe button.
Send it to a friend, and I'd love it
if you'd also give us a rating that
helps the show, and sends us to more
people just like you to help them
get set to thrive, not just survive.
Okay, let's jump in.
Emily: Silje, welcome to.
Hey There Thrivival.
It's so great to have
you on the show today.
Can you give the audience an introduction
as to who you are and what you do?
Silje Andersen-Cooke: Thank
you so much for having me.
my name is Silje.
I'm a mother of, three-year-old
triplets and a five-year-old Singleton.
I'm a lawyer and I'm also the chair of
the Australian Multiple Birth Association.
AMBA
Emily: Wonderful.
And so I'd like to hear, a
little bit about your, journey
to becoming a triplet mom.
but how did, how did that happen?
How did you find out and
what was your reaction?
And is it a family trait
that you have triplets.
Silje Andersen-Cooke: It's such a
common question, that people ask
me is does this run in the family?
I can tell you that I did
not expect this whatsoever.
Um, we had already had.
a one and a half year old at the time,
were trying for our second child and, uh,
we don't have any twins in our family.
No warning signs that
this could happen to us.
And we were going for, I was going
for the seven week ultrasound,
and that's when I found out.
my partner, Jordan, actually wasn't
even gonna come to the ultrasound.
And last minute he was
like, I'll be there.
And I'm so glad he was there.
And technician was, also not expecting
to see what, what she saw and was,
you know, that really painfully slow
weight when they are looking for
the heartbeat for the first time.
And you're like, gosh,
this is taking a long time.
And then she just takes a breath
and she's like, okay, I'm gonna
tell you what I can see here.
And I was like, yeah,
what, what can you see?
And she's like, I can see
one here with a heartbeat.
And I was like, okay.
Yep.
Great.
And then another one
here, another heartbeat.
And I was like, oh my gosh.
Twins.
Okay, twins, wow.
And then another pause before
she's like, and another one here.
And heartbeat.
I was like, that point I was like, oh
my goodness, like what is going on?
And just like this.
And my partner Jordan was just laughing.
I think he just thought it was so funny.
We just couldn't handle, you
know, you don't really process it
in the moment when you're there.
You're like, what, what?
And then she was like,
and I'll just check.
There isn't anymore.
And I was like, there, do you
mean there's, there could be more.
And she didn't find anymore.
and I mean, four would be an
adventure, but yeah, three,
was already a lot and amazing.
Miracle.
and then she printed out the ultrasound.
'cause I was like, I need
to see this in hard copy.
I need to see the actual image
of these three babies that you've
found in my And yeah, we drove home.
And you can just imagine the
thoughts racing, which I know
you would've experienced as well.
Like, we're gonna need a bigger car.
Can we live in a two bedroom
tiny house in Sydney?
And, how expensive it's gonna be.
How can my body carry triplets?
Is that even possible?
Like the questions I was asking,
like, where do you get a pram?
I've never even seen, I don't
know anybody who's had triplets.
I've never even seen a
pram that could triplets.
Like so many questions.
And I had to just answer at
least the top ones that that day.
And then I was like, okay, I can do it.
It's okay.
It's gonna be okay.
And then, yeah, we just accepted it.
Emily: Were there any interesting
or comical reactions from
friends, family, things like that?
Silje Andersen-Cooke: Oh,
there was a lot of disbelief.
Like a lot of No, no.
What?
No.
And so much of that and just
Emily: I.
Silje Andersen-Cooke: no, I'm
telling you this is the truth.
Like look at this photo.
And then, yeah, just shock and
just so much love and support
from family and friends as well.
And I also had a really good GP that I'd
been seeing, during my first pregnancy.
And, uh, she was just
like, you're amazing.
You can do this.
I'm here to support you.
So a lot of, a lot of emotions.
Emily: I bet.
And so talk me through, Silje,
with your pregnancy, was it
a fairly standard pregnancy?
Were there anything different?
'cause you've obviously had another
child, so Great, you know, comparison
to see what the differences are,
but love the audience to understand
what that looked like for you.
And then we'll, we'll go on
to the next pieces after that.
Silje Andersen-Cooke: Yeah, being
pregnant with triplets was very different
to being pregnant with one child.
And I had TCTA triplets, so that
means they were, trione, tri amniotic.
So they were each in their own
sac and they each had their own
placenta, which the doctor told me
was the safest version of triplets.
And was to describe it was
like, you've basically got three
pregnancies going on at once.
and the pregnancy went okay.
A.
It just escalated really quickly.
So by the time I was 20 weeks
pregnant, I probably looked full
term and every second person was
like, you must be due any day now.
And I was like, Nope.
Got weeks to go.
Weeks to this is, you have no idea.
uh, got, you know, I had like
pups rash, especially at the end.
so my belly was super itchy.
Uh, it was very heavy, obviously
having three percenters and
three babies inside my, my belly.
And also, there would just the,
when, when I would lie down, I would
kick and it would just be like, it.
I looked like an alien, like limbs poking
out of my, you know, it was just so funny.
And uh, later in the
pregnancy, it was summer.
I was so swollen.
That every night my partner would
like get a bucket of cold water for
my feet in because they were just
like, we couldn't fit into a shoe.
Like so, much water
retention, so much swelling.
I could barely walk by the end.
um, I made it until 34 weeks and five
days before I was like, I'm done.
need to be evacuated.
Emily: And what is the,
average gestation for triplets?
Is it 30 to 35 weeks?
Silje Andersen-Cooke: Yeah.
Emily: Would that be accurate?
Silje Andersen-Cooke: The doctor, told
me it was around, 30 weeks was the
average gestation of triplets, but
because it's so rare, it's
difficult to provide sort of
an accurate average per se.
I was lucky that I was.
Quite, I was healthy.
I had low iron levels but relatively
minor things and, was able to carry
them for as long as I could stand it.
Emily: That is a great,
a great achievement.
34 weeks from the average is 30, so
congratulations on making that happen.
Now.
Let's, talk about, delivery.
how was it, did the babies go to NICU
and how long were they there for?
Silje Andersen-Cooke: Yeah, it was
a really difficult time because,
they had some of that leftover rules
were from COVID, it was around,
it was in 2022, early 2022, and.
I was really anxious that my partner
wouldn't be able to be at the
birth because of their COVID rules.
And if he had gotten COVID or something,
he wouldn't be able to be there.
in the lead up, I was so stressed
about that he didn't get COVID and he
was able to be there, but I couldn't
have any other support person.
So the delivery went as well as planned.
And all the, I had a cesarean
um, it was really funny actually.
The only thing I asked of the, 'cause
I'd already had a cesarean before,
so I was like, he was basically
like, it's the same, same deal.
Um, just three come out instead of one.
I was like, great.
And said, um, I had asked him
specifically because I, I knew I
was having two boys and one girl and
what, when they're in my tummy, I,
I had already named the two boys.
'cause the one on the
right side movements.
I don't know, there's a way you can
just tell their personality inside you.
the other one had different kinds of
movements and I was like, don't get them
mixed up because I've already named this
one on the right and this one on the left,
that was, that was his only job, obviously
do the surgery correct and everything.
But this is important to me.
And um, he didn't get them mixed up.
And so I've got a Teddy and an Eric
and my Teddy is like a teddy bear
that just wants to cuddle you loves
dancing and he's just sunshine.
And Eric is just this,
um, him Eric the Viking.
'cause he is just like.
Um, so determined and wants to like,
do everything himself and like, wants
to, to help with me with everything.
That's so funny.
So, um, so funny having that
intuition as a pregnant, you know,
being pregnant and then seeing
their personalities as they grow up.
but the,
the birth went
Emily: Yeah.
Silje Andersen-Cooke: well and
then my partner had to take the plan.
We had a plan, my partner would go
with the babies to the nicu, and
before the birth we had been given
the opportunity to tour the nicu.
So I had seen the space and knew where
they were gonna go, and I think that
really helped me visualize and accept
what was gonna happen when they came out.
I got to see them and then they
were taken away to the nicu.
They were all.
Okay.
And Jordan went with them.
I went somewhere else to recover from
the surgery I was there by myself
for what felt like an endless period
of time, but it was like nine hours.
And Jordan came up, um, eventually he
was sending me videos of the babies
while he was down there talking
to them and holding their hands.
So I felt comforted, but I was
in so much pain afterwards.
Like they had not done
the pain medication.
Right.
And I was just, like, I felt
like I'd just been stabbed, which
is exactly what had happened.
my, like, it was like I could feel the
entire aftermath of the surgery it took
so long for someone to come and give
me the right amount of pain meds and.
Um, finally I was feeling better.
Um, but then the only way we could
go down to see the babies was I had
to take my whole bed down there.
obviously I like hooked up
to a catheter or something.
So, um, we had to wait until
there was enough space 'cause
there was other people there.
And then finally we were, my bed
was wheeled down to the NICU and
I got to have a cuddle with them.
And the time I'd got down there,
the two, I think it was, the two
boys were off the breathing support
'cause they were only on there for a
of time.
Emily: Was it.
Silje Andersen-Cooke: they, yeah, the
CPAP they could be put on my chest.
And I had all three of them, like
initial, like first cuddle and,
oh, it was the most amazing moment.
Like it's just, it.
I finally felt like I could breathe
again and be like, I did it.
all of that was worth it, all that
pain, I had three healthy babies and I
Emily: Yeah.
Yeah, that's amazing.
And I think that, I was talking about
this earlier with, someone, but the, that
separation period where you've just had
babies and then you don't get to see them.
And again, we're very lucky to have these
fantastic medical systems and the nicu,
uh, to care for our babies, but that
almost primal instinct to be with them and
to not be with them is so, so difficult.
So I can definitely relate to that,
and I'm sure a lot of people can,
but amazing work on them coming
out and being in such great shape.
So I'd love to hear, I guess
you had your triplets and then.
You ended up, joining AMBA, so the
Australian Multiple Births Association.
what led you to that?
I.
Silje Andersen-Cooke: So when I was
pregnant with triplets, I joined
my local multiple birth club,
And through that membership, I
got access to a new parent group.
I got to talk to other parents who
had just had their multiples and
ask them all the random logistical
questions you have as a pregnant mom.
I rented equipment from them
like breastfeeding pillows, went
to a multiple birth playgroup.
And it was so interesting 'cause
I had been to a playgroup with
my first child and was that like
cliquey nature of the mother's group.
I don't know if you've experienced
that, but when I had one child,
I went to this mother's group.
It didn't really work out.
I didn't make that many
friends or anything.
And it just felt a bit like, look at
me, my kid sleeps through the night.
When you go to a playgroup with
multiples, let me tell you,
that atmosphere is so different.
It is like a warm hug.
I would turn up there three babies
and someone would be like, cool, I'll
take your kids I'm making you a tea.
no one's dressed up.
Everyone, we're all
wearing tracksuit pants.
We're all, you know, just
you just feel so validated.
I cannot tell you I just felt so grateful
to be able to have that access to other
parents who had, you know, twins who
were five and than mine and I could
see the future a bit more and see that
they were still functioning and you are
so tired and so depleted feeling like
you're going crazy because you're just
stuck in the house and takes so much
effort to go outside, being around other
people who have been through that was
essential for me and it just validated
me, made me feel so much better.
I reached out to the National Association
(AMBA) and was like, how can I Because
I was so angry that despite having
three babies at once, not eligible for
any more parental leave and I wasn't
eligible for the multiple birth allowance.
Even though we didn't earn a amount
of money, weren't rich or anything,
we were actually in debt because
we had to buy this huge car.
know, financial pressures, cost of
living, and I wasn't working and
I didn't, I've run out of rental
leave, so I was just so angry.
I can't actually, that that is
where this decision came from, was
just a feeling of a feeling of.
people like the government
not acknowledging the unique
challenges that multiples have
and to do something about it.
If not, for me personally, I knew it
was gonna something that I was hoping
that I could help the next generation.
And I'm a lawyer.
I was really interested in like policy
change and advocating, and my partner
works in media relations, so talked to him
a lot about how does one get a story in
the media and gets some advice about that.
And with that support, very helpful.
With that support, I was, so I became
a director of the Australian Multiple
Birth Association and have been now,
for yeah, three over three years.
and the babies at the time were seven
months old when I started volunteering.
Emily: Fantastic.
Well, there's nothing like
lived experiences there
to really open your eyes.
And I think we're always lucky in whatever
community you are, whatever the shared
issues are, when there's people that
have fantastic skills like yourself.
And then it sounds like
your husband as well, to.
To bring value because media
understanding and, and policy change
and that legal piece is so important.
I wanted to also mention, the,
explanation for what the multiple
birth association is, just for those
who haven't heard of it or don't know.
So it's a voice for the multiples
community to improve outcomes.
The mission is to create positive
health outcomes and awareness
and equality, and also provide
advocacy, education and community.
it is a charity, so it's
fully run by volunteers.
It's got a board of director and more
than 40 clubs nationally, which is a lot
of people with multiples doing free work
and probably their jobs and whatever else.
So it's, it's quite a big,
Undertaking and you have done
some really, impressive things.
I think what is interesting is,
talking around what are the unique
extremes in parenthood for people
who haven't been there or maybe
don't know how to categorize it.
so I wanted to run through a couple,
and if you've got any callouts to add,
I've pulled these from your, reports
that you've done over the years.
I've gone through and scraped them, just
so that we can have a nice tight summary.
So, mothers, high risk pregnancies,
gestational diabetes, diabetes,
hyperemesis, grava, which is an extreme
pregnancy sickness, which can, you know,
be on a spectrum, And it's more likely
if you've got multiples, it can be,
Constant sickness or, or part of the
pregnancy, sometimes hospitalization.
Physical symptoms you talked about
carrying triplets, of course.
Heavyweight, abdominal damage
as well, can be quite a thing.
Rectus Dsti, I Babies.
So complications or loss.
Developmental delays.
Disability.
Twin.
Twin transfusion syndrome.
Taps, which is an acronym we're
going, won't go into it, but growth
restriction and traps as well.
So we talk about the babies,
specialist lactation needs, which
you, you referred to before.
73%, of multiples go to the nicu.
or the special care units, so the
SCU, which again is premature birth.
So that's that time off before work.
So high likelihood again, 73%.
and then obviously there's
after work as well.
So that's money out of pocket.
and impacts to mat leave,
unpaid leave, uh, and then.
The process to getting to applying for
paid parental leave for both is much
more complicated with multiples as well.
63% of mothers of multiples finish
work earlier than planned, so 63%
and then 89% of mothers had to
finish work before reaching 35 weeks.
so that's, again, we're talking
about specifically what are the
issues with this parent health?
70% of parents have either postnatal
depression or mental health in the
first two years post birth, 74% of
parents feel isolated during the
early years of, of raising multiples.
And then if we talk about the high
expense and then divorce rates, 70%
higher costs for the first two years,
higher chance of relationship issues
higher than average divorce rates.
So with AMBA, Silje, do you wanna go
over what other high level buckets
at the local level and then the
national level, that AMBA provides
and, and how it solves for those
problems that we've just talked about?
Silje Andersen-Cooke: Yeah.
Thank you so much for summarizing that.
you know, a lot of effort from amazing
volunteers to, put together that sort of
research and, really validate parents with
multiples and what their experiences are.
And obviously we know that there's,
it's unimaginable joy having
multiples, but the, there are these
unavoidable challenges as well.
And so at the local level, we have, so
the Australian Multiple Birth Association
has local affiliated clubs Australia.
And those local clubs provide
individualized, support in their local
areas depending on the volunteers
that they can, uh, recruit to
be able to provide that support.
And the volunteers are
other parents of multiples.
So this is incredible community
of passionate parents who have
had these experiences and want
to give back to that community.
They've got that knowledge and
we're all helping each other.
then.
AMBA or Multiple birth association
provides, education and
advocacy as like a peer, peer
just blanked.
The, Australian Multiple Birth
Association, or AMBA as we like
to call it, we provide, national
focus, education, and advocacy on
behalf of parents of multiples.
And that's been a really strong focus
of the organization over the last few
years, on behalf of
parents, to be, to the
government, to be able to get.
Increased support for multiple
birth families and have their
experiences validated and heard.
we also provide support to
those local clubs as well.
we don't receive any
government funding currently.
That is one of the asks that
we've put in budget submissions
because, we, we are a peak body.
We represent, an amazing community
all across Australia that deserves
to be heard on a wider level
and, also deserves to have more
services available to it as well.
since starting this role being more a part
of this and also being more connected to
wider stakeholders who run organizations
who support other areas like mental
health and family, there's such a gap
multiples, every other stakeholder.
they don't provide that support
that parents of multiples need to
hear and to see, you know, advice
around breastfeeding or mental health
or even health related with kids.
It needs to be specific for
multiple birth families.
We have these really unique challenges,
so there's this really big gap that needs
to be plugged by increased funding so
that we can actually provide that support.
Emily: Absolutely.
And so if we were to get into that a
little bit more, you've mentioned the ask.
So advocate for allocation of equal
government funding, because we all pay
tax and at the moment, if you have two
babies separately, you get two lots.
If you have them together because of
genetics or whatever the situation is.
You, get less.
And it doesn't make sense That is the,
the miss there and it's just something
which hasn't been paid attention to.
So yes, advocacy for,
equal government funding.
and then consistent policy.
So we've talked a little bit around
the experience of multiple births
going from that, I guess pregnancy
to delivery and, and postpartum.
So one of the big challenges as, you
know, Silje is consistent treatment.
So you were lucky because you had
a lactation consultant that knew
about at least feeding twins.
and some of the challenges are how do
you, manage through a pregnancy with twins
plus and all the different intricate.
Differences, make sure that there's
consistency across Australia
and that staff have a pathway.
So, for example, at the moment
there is a, a mom of triplets and
she has her triplets split between
two different cities in Australia.
We've got two, an hour and a half away,
and then one that's really sick here.
And it seems that there's just not a
policy in place to support the staff
to escalate, to get them back together.
And one of the babies is really sick.
So that, that is a great example
of why there needs to be,
you know, consistent policy.
So getting that through and
a, a good standard of care.
I know that there's.
Globally the rescue hug, which then
informed the kangaroo care model, which
is about keeping, multiples together.
So there were twins in
1995 in Massachusetts.
One was really sick and they
put them together in the crib
and the other one hugged it.
Again, not always possible when
there's safety concerns, so leave
that to the doctors, but ultimately
having policies which support that.
And then, Access to childcare as well.
So early education, there's
some challenges there in terms
of participation of multiples.
So you guys help advocate for that.
54% of multiple parents reported they
had trouble accessing, placements.
and then also the educator
awareness, um, once they go in.
So for example, keeping them on consistent
sleep schedules so when they go home
it's, it's not mess and things like that.
So consistency there.
and then advocacy for parents in school.
And, and I think the position of AMBA
is that that should be a decision
which is, is owned by the parents.
So basically AMBA does a lot of
really important work and at the
moment isn't government funded.
Anything you wanted to add?
Silje Andersen-Cooke: Thanks
for summarising that, Emily.
Yeah, we really think that, having
multiple parents of multiples of
those conversations and those policy
considerations is so important.
Like cannot be understated.
This situation with the, amazing triplet
mom that you were just referencing
before, who's currently, one baby in
one hospital and an hour and a half
away, the other two babies are in the
other hospital and one is really unwell.
That is just not okay.
The distress that causes those
parents, how hard that would be.
just cannot be a policy.
There has to be some oversight
and some acknowledgement because
they don't recognize and consider
as in the policymaking process.
Then it's not considered,
I find this so often.
I talk to, I've met with so many
MPs now, and anytime when I'm in
front of their face and I say I
have triplets, and I explain to them
what it's like to basically force
them to see what it's like for me.
For example, just going to childcare.
I mentioned something about, I couldn't
actually get my kids inside the childcare
because for before they were walking
and able to walk through the door.
I had a wagon.
Pram and there were stairs up to the
childcare where my oldest son went and I
was like, I actually can't get them inside
because I can't carry them all and I
can't leave them here next to a busy road.
Like how, like how would this work?
like, I think these people who have
not had multiples don't actually
consider how it would be different
for us until it's right in their face.
That's why it's so important to
have an organization like AMBA
advocate on behalf of multiples.
And we do, we do have amazing
volunteers doing incredible
work developing these policies.
We have a great relationship with
Twins Research Australia, our patron.
Jeff is an incredible, respected
researcher, in the twins area and is
really passionate about this as well.
And, we've done all this research
and it's, unclear to me why, doesn't
take action and recognize that this
needs it's, needs to be funded.
And despite, three years of having
meetings, I feel like I'm getting, I'm
getting closer it, it, with anything
government, it's painfully slow.
but the, the urgency is there.
Emily: Yeah, absolutely.
And thank you for sharing that, Silje.
I think.
It is complicated to get policy through
government, and obviously there's a lot
of competing parties and voices and people
that are very good at campaigning from
all angles to get their issues to the
front and get that budget and funding.
but it is, almost mind blowing
because it, it's just math.
We all pay tax.
You've got x amount of babies,
single births get them.
Why not the, parents that, you know,
have them at, at one go, if anything?
Jim Chalmers, we met, we were discussing
this earlier, said that he wants
Australians to have more babies.
Well, here we are, we are breeding,
we're accidentally having way more
than I think a lot of people planned.
And then where are the services
You know, where are the
services to support?
Silje Andersen-Cooke: exactly.
you know, we're, we're out here having
one for mum one for dad, one for the
country, and then another one for
the country, and where's the support?
And if we had four kids, one at a time.
We would be in a much
better place financially.
our mental health would be in a
different place because we've had them.
And it wasn't a, a choice of ours
because we've had them all at once.
we're put in this situation and
basically told, net you get less support.
It just does not make sense to me
how the experience is so much more
extreme and the support is so little,
um, and the recognition isn't there.
I think it's, it doesn't come from a
place of, a politician, for example,
actually, or, or any research or policy
being like, oh no, you are getting
the, know, the right amount of support.
We've thought about it and
we've done the calculations.
No one's done the calculations.
There is no research that they've done.
We've done the research, it shows
that twins cost up to 5x times more.
Triplets cost up to 13x times
more than having a singleton.
and you know, you've cited all the
research we've done previously.
it, you, you are more likely to have
premature babies, take more time
off work, unpaid parental leave.
it's gonna be harder for
you to get back into a job.
You can't, it's harder for
you to access childcare.
You are stuck in a loop essentially.
And Katie Gallagher, who's the finance
minister, actually got asked a question in
question time about this quite recently.
It was a few weeks ago.
she was asked, what, what do you
think should, why aren't twins
of the multiple birth allowance
among a bunch of other things?
we've got the full video
on our, social media page.
Mentioned that, well,
So there's a newborn upfront payment
and the newborn supplement payment,
and she said, well, that's something
only, twins could get for that second
child basically justifying, you
know, well, no, no, it's not correct
that you don't get extra support.
There's actually this payment.
So we were like, okay,
let's survey the community.
of multiples.
over a thousand parents of multiples in
Australia answered our two minute survey.
we're really looking forward
to sharing the results, soon,
To give you a sneak peek.
It's not a lot, not a lot of
parents of twins are actually, are
actually accessing that payment.
And then even less are actually accessing
the full payment, which is like 2000
is the full amount that you get.
so even the people that did even less
were actually getting the full amount.
So this line from the government
that we're currently getting
is just not good enough.
And, the, also the, the idea that parents
of triplets or higher order multiples,
quadruplets or more getting at all
this money and all the support from the
multiple birth allowance, well that's
just not true either because the multiple
birth allowance is a, highly like it, the.
The amount that you have to earn is so
little to be able to access this, even
less than half parents of triplets or more
are actually able to access this payment.
And to put that into perspective,
there's about 50 to 60 a year higher
order multiples born in Australia.
So what we're talking about is a payment
that multiple birth allowance less than
half of those people are able to access.
I, I just, it blows
my
mind.
Emily: Yeah, so it sounds
like there's a lot of gaps.
I saw that survey and we
didn't get this, to be honest.
Navigating Centrelink and, and
Medicare is horrible with multiples.
It's so hard to get through for
a start to even get on the phone.
It's like an hour or so wait.
I was always on the phone With ours,
it's hard to, for them to process
when there's multiple children.
We have one child with a slightly
long name, even Medicare, his name
is Charlemagne, and that couldn't
fit on the medical card, so they
just didn't contact us and we
didn't even get the Medicare card.
But it's a really bad process and I
think awareness of these payments is.
Is a gap and perhaps the, the steps to get
them, needs some review in terms of that.
And then again, what is with these
actual amounts, how does that
match against, our friends having
their single babies over time?
Is it still commensurate?
I'd be really interested to see that
math, because again, let's talk about
data maybe the politicians don't
wanna talk too much about emotions.
'cause yes, parenting is hard.
Great.
It is.
But let's talk about data and
facts, taxpayers and getting our
due with them being good taxpayers
and making children for the country.
Jim Chalmers, So anyway, thank
you for running through that.
let's keep going through.
I wanted to recap as well, um,
Silje, the, the current multiple
issues, I guess in Australia.
So support has gone backwards,
from your, your 2025.
Good start.
Make it a good start report.
You noted that, there's been
an increase since the 1970s in
Australia of multiple birth families.
In the 1990s, it was heavily subsidized
and that was before there was a, a general
policy, but there was a subsidy in place.
It's no longer available.
there was a baby bonus per
baby that was abolished.
and then at the moment, twins are
not considered as two different
babies, as a multiple birth.
They're considered.
It's triplets and up.
and again, with triplets it's
quite a modest amount and
access is a real problem.
So there's quite a few issues
there in terms of the policies
actually being effective and being
accessible, which makes them, close
to redundant in a, in a lot of ways.
I know that you have had meetings
with international bodies.
Where does Australia rank
internationally, against its peers for
support of multiple birth families?
Silje Andersen-Cooke: We know that,
Australia ranks about second last in
the OECD for support for multiple birth
families, and that came out in one of our
reports a couple of years ago Comparing
to countries like, France that recognises
that parents should have additional
parental leave in New Zealand, there's in
home support schemes that provide hours
of domestic support for free for parents
of twins and higher order multiples.
there's Denmark who, offers
additional parental leave just,
this is the way that we are going.
is recognition
overseas
parents of
multiple should have
So.
leave in comparison to
a parent of Singleton.
there's even other schemes if you
have children, for example, I can't
remember if it's hungry, where.
was a country in Europe where, if you
have four kids, you don't have to pay any
especially when you have more than one
at once, we know that it costs five times
more and up to 13 times more for triplets.
There's a recognition that, they
shouldn't just take into account
someone's income, but without fully
taking into account how much a, a child
and a dependent will cost that family
in proportion to someone's income.
and I don't think that that
recognition is here in Australia.
We don't have that.
We don't, uh, we obviously do
not recognize twins as a multiple
birth according to Centrelink.
they're not, eligible for
the multiple birth allowance.
and.
That's just wrong.
It's, you have, you've had two
babies, that's a multiple birth.
You should have access to the multiple
birth allowance and you should have
access to additional parental leave.
There needs to be more recognition of
the unique challenges that parents of
multiples face in Australia, and we need
to, we're just failing in comparison to
other OECD countries who already get this.
Emily: It's wild.
And look, it's pretty embarrassing for
a country that for most aspects, sees
ourselves as forward-looking and, and,
you know, health and families and science.
So it's pretty embarrassing that
the math just doesn't add up.
And again, it sounds like there's a
lot of oversights, but even hearing you
talk just now and saying that it's based
on the income, but not how many kids
you've had at once to then, split that
I guess across your multiple babies.
It's just.
you had a birth, you've got
this income doesn't count.
That again, doesn't add up.
So something for anyone that's
in the political arena or can get
that message across, I think that's
a really good call out there.
So thank you for sharing that.
And I think the other thing to
mention there as well is there's
different ways to structure it.
So across the globe there's
different countries, it sounds
like, doing different things.
You can do paid parental leave, you can do
baby bonuses, you can do in-home support.
You can do paternity leave as well.
'cause again, you know, it's all hands on
deck, especially if you don't have family.
but whatever the structure is, I
think it's, there's no doubt that
it's currently ineffective and,
and overlooked at the moment.
with those in charge, who is
responsible in Australia for saying,
yes, let's sign off on this, which
politicians and what departments.
Silje Andersen-Cooke: Let's name names.
assistant Minister Jed Kearney
is the social services assistant,
social services minister.
She is a twin mom, she is absolutely
lovely and an incredible person.
She, I think used to be a nurse or a
midwife, and, I've had a few meetings
with her, for the first time ever.
She's, newly in this role after
the election the first time.
She has multiple births actually
in her charter letter, something
she asked for specifically.
of our advocacy.
so that's really incredible achievement
and, a really powerful thing for us.
It means that that's something that
she wants to take action in that area.
So Plibersek is the Social services
Minister and she is, the minister with
oversight of the entire portfolio.
Then we've got Katie Gallagher, who's our
finance minister and minister for women.
She is really central to, making
any changes in this space, anything
to do with additional money.
Then we've got Jim Chalmers,
the treasurer, who's also
very essential to this.
and then on top of all of those, the
Prime Minister Anthony Albanese, who.
that, he, he didn't want anyone to
be left behind and multiple birth
families are being left behind.
So really hope that those people,
if they're, you know, working under
that mandate, are listening to us and
hearing that we need something done and
we needed it done yesterday, frankly.
Emily: Yeah.
Well, thank you for sharing that.
I do wonder whether it's there's
competing, groups that are
getting ahead or if they're
really just not understanding.
And honestly, from our discussion,
again, talking about the math and,
and the responses you've had to
date, it sounds like there's just
a miss in understanding the math.
And the math at the moment
doesn't add up, and the access
and the structure isn't effective.
So it's an ineffective, setup.
So, I hope everyone's listening
and, and they can voice that.
So what can people do?
What is it that people in the community
that are listening can do, whether
they're parents or family, or just someone
that understands that this is an issue.
Silje Andersen-Cooke: Thank
you for asking that question.
I think, there's so much people could do.
think the most effective thing if
you're, if Australian parent of
multiples especially and you have a
local federal member, is just annoying
them and being like, Hey, me again.
we've got a, AMBA has an email your MP
link, so it's really easy to send a,
a proforma email where you can still,
it's really important that you add a bit
about yourself and, and individualize
it, but has the context there.
And we made it really easy because
we know how, um, little time parents
of multiples have, that's like
a small thing that you could do.
um, if you've got more time,
it's like following up and.
We had an amazing, um, a minister,
sorry, a senator in Tasmania, for
example, actually asked the question
of Katie Gallagher in question time.
If we had every MP across Australia,
senator bothering the government about
this, it, what we, I guess what we need
to create is just noise, constant noise.
it, it, um, means that, you know,
everybody needs to do a little bit and
kind of talk to their mp, you know, speak
to the media, try and tell your story.
have so many who are willing to
talk to the media, tell their story,
and, um, we love to collaborate with
other parents who, can tell their
story and we can bring the message
of what we need the government to do.
so anyone who's willing to tell their
story, reaching out to us and we can.
Facilitate a media story to help raise
awareness of what we're advocating for.
just trying to get a meeting with
your local MP and talking about
this, bringing our report with you.
You know, just, just put
this, this everywhere.
Put that on the desk.
Um, get, just, you know, if you can
print it out, take it, email it.
Um, we've got an, we've got
multiple birth awareness week,
once a year in March for a week.
And, um, we usually have an event at
Parliament House we invite families to
come and meet mps and invite those mps.
And we usually get, you know, 10
to 15 a really good turnout, um,
to come and meet these parents.
So if you want to be there in person and
barge down the door of Parliament House,
we would love that slide into our dms.
Really?
Yeah.
If I boil it down, it's really, it's
just creating noise, talking about it.
Um, you don't know who's gonna listen
to it, and they could be the one that
this domino effect that makes this an
unavoidable issue that
the government needs to do
something
about
Emily: That's great.
and I know there's a lot of people
in some really impressive roles, or
they've got friends that maybe they
know politicians or people in the
media or whatever that might be.
So if everyone kind of pushed that or
maybe even reach out to AMBA and provide
that information, say, Hey, this is what
I can do for you to help escalate and
maybe again, aiming for that March time.
So it's a, message and consolidated
impact could be, impactful as well.
So I think we'll have to, hopefully
people are listening and thinking of
some ideas, so make sure you send them
through guys because, I think again, as
a, volunteer organization, we need all
the energy and, and the support of people
Silje Andersen-Cooke: so call to
action and something that, also makes
a really, if this is all you can do,
is just joining AMBA, joining the
Australian Multiple Birth Association,
joining your local affiliated multiple
birth club, because that money goes
towards these advocacy efforts and,
education and growing the awareness and,
organizing events at Parliament House.
and that's a big show of
support for us as well.
So that, that is another
way that you can help our,
Emily: Love that.
So thank you so much.
I think I just wanted to mention as
well, there are some really great
data reports on the AMBA website.
If you go to The multiple births Awareness
Week, all the reports are listed over
the years, so anyone that wants the full
data or wants the media brief, which
is high level, they're all there if
you want to use that to share around.
And we, mentioned before the great news
is, uh, AMBA and Silje and the, the
whole group of directors there over the
years are just doing a fantastic job.
I can tell you from reading the reports
that the way the messaging is clear,
the ask the data is much more, refined.
And so hopefully that means we are getting
closer to getting some impactful change.
now we're just about reaching the end.
Any final thoughts or takeaways you
want to leave with the audience?
Silje Andersen-Cooke: I just
wanna say thank you so much
for having me and, it's been so
good
Emily: I.
Silje Andersen-Cooke: to you about
these things and
kind
of
the nitty gritty of
what it's like to
advocate and for parents.
And, I just wanna say, I stand on
the shoulder of giants because,
the Australian Multiple Birth
Association was established in 1970.
And incredible volunteers throughout
that time have carried AMBA, advocated
for multiple birth families those
volunteers who are parents of multiples
going to set up playgroup, dropping off
meals to other parents with newborns
running, newborn and new parent groups,
hiring out equipment turning up to
meetings at 8:00 PM with the rest of the
committee, organizing events for multiple
birth families in their community,
advocating on behalf of them to mps.
it is incredible.
Like I am so grateful to be a part
of such a passionate community
and, such a giving community.
it changed my whole life becoming a
parent of triplets, but it's changed
my life being a part of such a.
community who just feels so
compelled to help others.
there's just nothing like it,
and I just feel really grateful
Emily: Well, thank you so
much for joining, Silje.
It's been wonderful to get into this
and to hear more about the data and
hopefully educate the audience, whether
they be in Australia or overseas,
around what the situation is, who
to speak to, how they can help.
So thank you so much.
It's been absolute pleasure.
Silje Andersen-Cooke:
Thank you so much, Emily.
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