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Social Justice - A Conversation
Unknown Speaker 0:00
Hi, I'm Charles Stanton. I'm on the faculty of the Honors College of UNLV and the Boyd School of Law.
Unknown Speaker 0:06
Hi, I'm Lana weatherald. I'm a third year law student and welcome to social justice, social
Unknown Speaker 0:11
justice to conversation conversations.
Unknown Speaker 0:16
Good evening, everybody. Thank you once again for joining us on social justice, a conversation once again, I am Lana weatherald, a third year law student at the Boyd School of Law joined by Professor Stanton, who is not only a professor at the Boyd School of Law, but also a professor at UNLV is Honors College. Today, we've got a plethora of topics to discuss with you guys. And as always, if you have any concerns, questions, topics you would like to hear the professor and I discuss, we do have email addresses attached to the school that we would love to hear from you at mine is w e, t h e l one@unlv.nevada.edu. And if you send me an email, I'll go ahead and make sure the professor receives it as well. And we of course, of course want to encourage other people bringing their ideas and bringing their support and bringing their sort of thoughts outside of just the professor and I have in these conversations. So with that, I will let the professor lead us out.
Unknown Speaker 1:08
Sure. Good evening, everybody. Yes, I wanted to talk we're gonna talk tonight about a few things that as a famous philosopher once said, The more things change, the more they remain the same. Having to do with racism in America, having to do with police, problems that have persisted. And finally ending up with our, the protection of our high school athletes. Ben Jealous was on Ben Jealous of courses as a noted civil rights leader. And he also has written to do book, never forget, our people were always free, is a marvelous book, I've read it. It has to do with this Mads Odyssey, his journey to find the truth of exactly why racism persists in America. And he gets into the whole origination of racism, how people were basically reduced to property, and how through racial marriage between people of color and white people, so many of the people who were proclaiming these racist ideals are actually people of color themselves. And of course, so many of the people who were were victims were part white. So it was a very, very interesting analysis he had, one of the things he talks about in his book, and of course, in the interviews that he's had, was the fact that the persistence, the persistence of racism, exists in many ways, because people have given up trying to end it. There's, there's almost like a resignation of feeling that America is what it is. And that, because it has been this way for so many, hundreds of years, it will never change. And, of course, that defeatism has affected all levels of our government, not only in the Congress, but also our judiciary and the executive branch as well. I think one of the things that he touched on, but I'm gonna throw this over to Lana, is how racism has been a weapon, not only used against people of color, it's actually been used against white people as well. Because what racism has basically done, it has divided the country in such a way that the antagonisms between the two separate groups have aided the one group that runs the country, which is the wealthy, the affluent, corporate America, the one cent the one percenters, who basically have profited from from our division. And I believe, coming up now, with the next Congress, we're going to see even more incidences of this, as the Republican majority in the House actually works to completely forestall any kind of legislation in the Congress, and also basically attempt to as much as they can try to rescind benefits and rights that have been established, long established.
Unknown Speaker 4:36
Yet, you know, none of none of this. None of this are shot and when I first moved down to Florida, I was struck by monuments and elementary schools and things that were dedicated to the memory of Robert Ely. Right. So you talk about now they're sort of this dissidents and now they're sort of this removal from, you know what, there are still people that are sort of champion racism as as a and then. So you see these elementary schools you see these mommy monuments to Robert Ely. You know what else I found? Professor, they were naming their children after Robert E. Lee. I can't tell you how many kids I knew from down south who had the middle name Lee. And I'm thinking I mean, how are we ever going to get rid of this? How can we pretend it isn't going to infiltrate our legislature when we're naming our kids after these Confederate generals? I mean, What in God's name, so it doesn't surprise me that this is now infiltrating into the legislature and we're now seeing racist ideas like we didn't see until you know, Jim Crow era. I'm not surprised. Because we've we've never, like you said, I think very early on in the show, We've never taken the time to fix it, we've become lazy, we've become apathetic, but now it's almost become something to champion your racism as sick as it is. So, you know, I personally wanted to take this time in this show, to talk about how it's affecting students I know and when the professor said it's infiltrating the legislature and infiltrating people in Congress and the governor of Florida, Ron DeSantis, I went to a very small public liberal arts school and you're seeing this sort of all across the country, that champions ideals of critical race, teaching critical race, theory teaching, that diverse classes make successful classes that the more people and more sort of parody invoices, you have sort of the more successful that the student body is DeSantis has come in and sort of said, like, stop this wokeness stop using critical race theory stops. And this is a direct attack where he has replaced now members of the Board of Governors at my small institutions called the new College of Florida, you guys can look this up, it's all national news. But this is what you're seeing, right? It's now not only are the very few colleges, or the very few institutions are the very few people that are willing to say, hey, critical race theory is something we need to look into, hey, we are still doing these, we are still perpetuating a horrible racist culture within our institutions. And these things are happening and will pervade our legislature, instead of saying, oh, let's teach those things, we are shutting down, the very institutions that are starting to speak up are starting to notice these things that the professor and I are talking about at length. So it is terrifying, and you are seeing it on the ground. I don't think the professor and I are fear mongering, when we say racist ideologies will begin to pervade the laws that that are getting passed to the laws that are hit the floor, or even just what's talked about colloquially, on the news every day, it will become racially based, we've seen it every day, and now what is happening on the ground. So I think, you know, we can talk about it at length, it's hard to have a call to action here, because it's such a massive problem that will could any one person do. But, yeah, I,
Unknown Speaker 7:38
I think that one of the things that that couldn't be done, and I don't think it's been done enough, is to look at what the Confederacy stood for. Right? And, and, and what the Confederacy stood for, and why we had a civil war. It comes down to the basic idea that not only were people of color on equal to people who are white, but people of color were property. They were chattel. They were not full human beings. They could be bought and sold at a whim of a master. The idea that people put up statues to people who propagated that and supported those ideas, people in that who support that, they really need to be confronted about it, and asked, you know, Governor, or senator or whoever it is, do you do you believe Do you believe that slavery was a good thing? Do you believe that the subjugation of whole generations of people was so
Unknown Speaker 8:54
scary? Professor, I believe if you asked Republican senators, governors, I mean, some of the more extremists, the vast majority of them would just call it a states right issue. I believe saving slavery was because that's how they've started to frame it. They've started to move what was one of the most gross failures of in human history, probably the most gross failure in human history as a state, right. states rights rights issue. I mean, much of like, what they've done with abortion, it's just the most heinous and disgusting things you can possibly imagine become issues of states rights. It wouldn't surprise me if we asked that question, if that would be the answer. Truly.
Unknown Speaker 9:26
Yeah. Yeah. I think that you know, what it can connected area because I think, as I've said on the program with Lana, I believe the misogyny, the racism, the prejudice against LGBT people, all these issues are connected. There's a there's a misguided set of beliefs there.
Unknown Speaker 9:49
The power structures are changing, right? A woman like me, could now attain the same amount of wealth. I mean, look at Mackenzie Bezos, she's one of the 100 100 richest people in the world, right. There's And then there's men of color, women of color who are now starting to break barriers and sort of become the positions that white men thought were only for that, right. So I think number one, and you know, it's people don't like saying it because it's the, you know, the sort of catch all term, but it is just white men that sort of feel that their position is threatened or that their ease into rising the ranks or that their ability to always be number one, while being relatively mediocre, has sort of fallen to the wayside. Because now the doors have to be at least a little more ajar, or at least we're giving the given under the guise that the doors are a little bit more ajar. So I think that's it. I mean, I think when we say all these issues are connected, it's because for once, and now because of the teachings of critical race theory, and because of the teachings of what our institutions are in can be, we are seeing some advancement groups and minorities that we have never ever seen. And that's a threat. It's a threat. Yeah,
Unknown Speaker 10:54
I think that's I think that's why the the Supreme Court will will do away with affirmative action, when that particular case is decided, because that, that that privilege and power, and entitlement and the accumulation of wealth was largely based on the denial of the vast majority of people from having any opportunity at all to at all. So that's also part of it. And of course, I think it ties also into the way our political system works. visa vie, the Congress where people basically are almost they have a sense of entitlement, like you can be a Senator for 30 years, or 40 years or 50 years. And there's their needs. I think they're definitely in that area needs to be a major change.
Unknown Speaker 11:46
Right. I mean, you saw it in some of these, you know, judicial hearings regarding Facebook, or Google or Twitter. I mean, we're talking about real life security issues that affect everyday, I mean, worldwide, not just Americans. This is worldwide issues, security protocols that end up in judicial committees that these guys don't even understand the Internet, let alone the security, the features, the coding that's inherent to something like Facebook or Google. It's like, how are these guys sitting here? Yeah. Oh, my God. And but then they're deciding that, you know, yeah, it's the guys that were 2425, even in their 30s. During the gym grossed out, they're still sitting in the Senate, still sitting. And so
Unknown Speaker 12:22
let's find out what's fascinating about all this is how back going back to Lyndon Johnson, right, who put through a lot of the great social programs probably put along with Franklin Roosevelt, right, more social programs than anybody. His passage of the Civil Rights Bill was the fact that a number of Democratic senators, he was able to influence them to vote for it, that the Republican Party in the 60s was very progressive, right. And the ones who were holding out what were the Democrat was the Democrats. And now of course, and now, of course, the whole thing is, has reversed, which is interesting. So so that so that introduction leads us to our second issue, which is police reform. And we've, you know, we've talked in previous programs about, you know, the issues that pertain to proper law enforcement and discriminatory law enforcement. And there was another, I guess it was the other night, another killing or unexplained death of a person who was,
Unknown Speaker 13:33
I believe, the man said, prior to his death, I'm going to be another George Floyd. They're trying to George Floyd,
Unknown Speaker 13:38
I think so. Yes, yes. Yes. So there's a new book, that is a new book that I had the opportunity to look at it, it's called the writer's come out at night. And it is a case study of Oakland, California, and all the various efforts over a number of decades. So reform the police department, and having to deal with basically a lot of stuff that was clearly completely improper. They have had watchdogs in a number of these cities like LA where they have federal intervention and everything. But I think, I think one of the things that they have to do it, and you had, you had brought the point up in a previous broadcast, about how you're getting a certain subset of people to go into the police department whose intentions may not be apropos for what they're doing. I think they need to change the whole way. You you, you create a place to fall. And I think one of the ways they could do it is whereas now it's basically you go to the police academy, and you go through that whole procedure
Unknown Speaker 14:53
show up with your high school diploma. Yeah. And you're ready to go. Yeah,
Unknown Speaker 14:56
I think that what they need to do is It have two parts of police training. One part of police training is obviously being adept to be a police officer knowing you know, what you would have to do in a situation which was dangerous to the society, or yourself. And well, and all those things about the gun and all that stuff. So that's one part of it. But the second part of it should, should be a curriculum, actually a curriculum, a university curriculum,
Unknown Speaker 15:27
they need to have a degree, I mean, I'm gonna
Unknown Speaker 15:30
say this, I'm gonna say, I'm gonna say, I'm gonna say, even, even if they don't have a degree, let's just say we bring somebody in from the high schools, right? You're going to get a college, part of a university, part of your training to be a police officer, that there's going to be humanities, part of the police, police department, where you have professors of law and all the rest of the stuff. And they're gonna get into the issues in depth of what their responsibilities are, what the dynamic between the officer and the public is, and get into the history of it, and go through and go through that history related to you know, George Floyd, and all those things, but make a case studies of all these things that happened, and say, Listen, this is to be a police officer has a duty and a responsibility and a privilege. But this is where they fell off. So when you're you're gonna you're gonna be coming into the, into the forest, yes, you have to do certain things that are required, obviously, to maintain law and order. But you also have to be responsible for these other things and respectful of these other things. And maybe there's a number of people who would come into that environment who might be able to be reached as to what their outlook should be.
Unknown Speaker 16:57
Yeah, I mean, you would hope all the tiki torch cops, if you're catching my flow, we would, we would hope all of them would be dissuaded by such a liberal indoctrination kind of education, we would hope that that would you know, keep them out of the force, but I wouldn't be so sure. They probably just sit through their class. Like they sat through their, you know, Algebra class in high school and get their C and move on. Because that's the kind of people I believe cops to be. But maybe I'm wrong. You know, maybe that would change even one or two cops mind and even that would be better. But I just have absolutely no faith in our police force. I think from the bottom up, it needs to be completely destroyed. I don't I mean, I would never I wouldn't. And people then all say Well, who would you call if you're in danger? I'll tell you what. I was robbed here in Vegas straight up, robbed. I called the cops and they said, Well, we got a homicide ahead of you we got a domestic violence or how do you so I don't know if so I tried to call them. They didn't come to my rescue. They didn't come to my house. People don't. We don't need the cops. The cops. I mean, I you know, I say that as someone who has never been murdered or raped, but I don't know. I don't know. I just feel fundamentally, we have gotten to the point where we have an armed militia. I mean, they're an armed militia, threatening people in our streets constantly daily. Just this past week. We know of a serial rapist cop we know of a murderer cop, we know of it. I mean, it's like, come on, what are we doing? And why don't we pretend that they're any good seeds in this bunch. If they were good seeds, guess what? They go to law school, they go get their criminology degree they go become? And then maybe the good seeds end up detectives, but they certainly aren't walking the beat. I just have such a, you know, I'm so anti law. And I will, I
Unknown Speaker 18:23
will, I will say this from having, you know, you know, work to the justice system and having had, you know, debris of my family who were, you know, in the police department and various capacities. I have known a bunch of people who were idealistic, right, they wanted to do they wanted to do certain things. I think, to be fair, there are there are there are many who do wrong, right? That's for sure. A number of years ago, I read a book, called the new Centurions by Joe wham part of it, you know, wham ba was had been a detective on the LA police force. The police force is composed of, you know, various kinds of people with various kinds of intentions, but ultimately, the responsibility for what the police force is, and what the police force does, rests with society. It's a society, it's a societal responsibility. So if we as a society, observe and see and allowed to be permissible, things that we know are wrong, then we have to take a certain responsibility. I think a lot of the public a lot of the public. They don't want to know what the police do. They want they want law and order, quote unquote, law and order, but we don't want to know how we get One order. And I think there has to be, you know, one of the things that they need to do, regarding, you know, in a lot of the cities, we have police review boards, like in New York City where you know, they would they review every every case of police brutality and all the rest of these things. I think and well, the city's it has to be mandated by law, that the recommendations of the of the review board take on a force of war. Yeah, I don't, I don't think it shouldn't be left to the hierarchy of the police. Maybe
Unknown Speaker 20:37
it is just qualified immunity is so much of the problem because they do believe they're larger than life. And they do believe they're untouchable because largely they are. It may be that is so much of the issue. I just think Professor very plainly, if I knew before I went to law school that there were members of, you know, the legal community that were rapists, member of the legal community that were capable of killing people in cold blood, that we're capable of lying about it that work. If I knew that that was pervasive in the legal field, I would have never went to law school. There are gentlemen that know exactly what's going on the police force. This is no secret anymore. We know exactly what's going on in police departments across this country, yet you still have young men filing into sign up to become a cop. Why is that? Because guess what, I wouldn't become a lawyer if I knew there were rapists and killers among my ranks. And they know there are rapists and killers among their ranks, and they don't care. And they they subscribe to the same theories anyway, and I will never respect you
Unknown Speaker 21:28
know, I think I think there's, there's much to watch to say, I think that I think that, you know, from having, you know, been involved in the justice system, I will just say this, it's a very, very difficult undertaking, you know, to, you know, you know, we see things we see things in a sense, removed from from, from the actual events that people encounter. But there are situations where it's even the most idealistic person has to deal with things that are very, very hard to get a grasp of, particularly, particularly, particularly in domestic violence cases, just this the name one idea, where, you know, the police go in there, and I've seen this a number of times, and there's been abuse, right. And the police, you know, want to do that, what their job basically, and they want to arrest the person. And then, for whatever reason that the party who has been assaulted, says, restaurants don't do it. And, you know, they're caught in the middle. You know, I always I, we blame the police for a lot of things. But, you know, one of the things where they were, they were terribly at fault, from an abuse point of view was OJ Simpson's wife, she had been repeatedly abused, and they had complaints against them. And then, of course, nothing ever happened to him. And the ironic thing is, the one, the one guy that arrested him, the one guy that arrested him was was was Mark Furman,
Unknown Speaker 23:18
I think we could do a whole separate show on in some of this, you know, for as anti police as I am, this is more the laws that are on the books, it is very difficult, if especially if the woman is not cooperating to get sort of stalking charges filed to get sort of to get something like that through and to find people willing to prosecute those claims, it is very difficult. And it is very hard for women that are put in positions of peril where men are concerned and dv situations. You know that that I almost think is a whole different conversation than police reform, almost because I think that is how we more how we view women and more how battered are treated, and then more. So we'll blame the lawyers here. I'll take a little bit of culpability, I think, what's the the willingness to prosecute things like that? It's not there. You know, we have to have more prosecutors willing to take the stalking men to task willing to take these. And then if you've added the caveat that yeah, a lot of these women don't even want to cooperate because they fear for their own lives if they cooperate. So I think yeah, I will, I'm even willing to say I don't know how much of that is a police issue. And how much of that is just to how we view women and how we handle domestic violence cases and how we handle stalking and things like that in this country? Well, I think
Unknown Speaker 24:26
I want to I want to give a shout out to a remarkable movie called women talking, which I think everybody should say men, women, everybody should see this movie with a clear voice in it and it has to do with the Mennonites and the various misdeeds of the of the male community in the Mennonite sector, or whatever you wanna call it is really an astounding piece of writing astounding piece of acting and I And she said is another movie that is also remarkable. But there's a patriarchy in the United States or patriarchy in the United States.
Unknown Speaker 25:11
And I think there's a certain color and gender based on color
Unknown Speaker 25:13
and gender and when these crimes occur, basically, you know, it's it's a guilty until proven innocent, basically. So the women go in there and I've seen it many times. This happens you that happens to you, you know, they look at, you know, really two heads and a tail. Right, right. Oh, you know, what
Unknown Speaker 25:35
did you do to provoke such an incident?
Unknown Speaker 25:39
So, the last thing we really wanted to talk about today, is, has to do with, you know, awareness of, you know, athletic safety, having to do with the course the situation with the Buffalo Bills, Tamar, Hamlin, and Tamar, Hamlin, of course, and the very quick and efficient intervention by by the people in the field. So to save his life, very interesting article in today's USA Today, about the 24,000 active athletic fields for high school athletics involving pretty much every sport, man, female, what have you. And there's only 8000 athletic trainers for 24,000.
Unknown Speaker 26:29
And then you think about, you know, so many of the top athletes we're talking about the most competitive often come in low income neighborhoods, and then they do not have ie D level kind of care. They don't have paramedics nearby. They don't have, I mean, to not even have a different defibrillator. And a lot of these schools. It's terrifying. And then you think, you know, you watch with Damar Hamlin, those were the finest athletic trainers in our country. Those were some of the, you know, better equipped medical personnel that you could find, right? He still almost didn't make it. Yeah, he still died twice. He's still in, they couldn't have been any faster or bend any better. I mean, the performance of them obviously admirable, remarkable beyond words, right. But he still almost didn't make it. So imagine in a low income neighborhood in Texas, we're all they churn out all these superstar football players. And the same thing happens to a kid, right is are they going to have a two minute response time? Are they going to have a ambulance waiting 10 feet away to take you to one of the most premier medical facilities in this country? Probably not? Probably not. So yeah, I think you bring up a great point, Professor, that we have a, I think a problem when we have this much money coming into sports, and I'm passionate about sports. I love sports. But when you think about the amount of money that comes in it's egregious multibillion dollar corporations then that don't sort of protect their farm system. I hate to call it that. But that's what it is. When you start recruiting out of high school and start putting them in Alabama put them in the right D one school making sure they go to the SEC or the big 10 making sure their routes, right, right? It is all it's the NFL is game, they've got their hand in that they've got scouts going out there early in high school, and then to not provide the safety features on your multibillion dollar corporation is interesting. It
Unknown Speaker 28:09
I found it fascinating to think about where we live, that we have many high school football teams here. And I wonder what their what their safety protocols are, particularly particularly when these young people are training in July and August,
Unknown Speaker 28:32
right. And you know, for those of you who are have not been to Vegas, or listening outside of the Vegas area, we can have temperatures exceeding 110 or 115 degrees. All the equipment on right and you've got equipment, right and then you're practicing outdoors. And so you know, we have a lot of we'll we'll just say underfunded public schools in Nevada and southeastern Nevada in particular. So yeah, it is curious that we I'm surprised we haven't seen more of this. Yeah, quite frankly, you know, what we saw with Damar Hamlin was shocking, but I was almost thinking, wow, if that can happen that easily. I'm shocked. We almost don't see more of it. Yeah,
Unknown Speaker 29:09
it was it was interesting, too. You know, and this, this has to do with your professional team, the Raiders, when they were out. They were out in August, right on four or five days, where it was like over 110 degrees. I'm thinking to myself, you know, that's not being smart. No, you know, they had this huge indoor facility does nothing that you can do and the mega indoor facility that they have done putting these guys out there right. And plus the fact that no temperature was like it is here, right? So didn't make any sense on that
Unknown Speaker 29:44
cheery and lovely note. We hope you guys can all stay inside and stay warm here in January. And we thank you once again for tuning in. Sorry the show was not as light hearted as sometimes it can usually be but of course we thank you for giving us your time and energy anyway, so have a wonderful The rest of your weekend and thank you for listening to social justice a conversation. Thank you for listening to our show. If you have any questions, please do not hesitate to contact us at weather one that's w e t h e l one@nevada.unlv.edu. Or to contact Professor Charles Stanton, contact him at CHA R L E S That's Charles dot Stanton s t a n t o n@unlv.edu cn N axon
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