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Podcast by a Panhandle Surf Angler for all anglers of any level. We will talk weekly to guests that are anglers and also industry professionals. I want you to walk away from this podcast with some knowledge either refreshed or new for you to become a better angler. Though it will start in the Panhandle of Florida, it will be around the entire United States so we can all learn something about fishing in different regions.
Speaker 1 (00:00:01):
This episode of Finding Demo Surf Fishing is being brought to you by dss Custom tackle Delaware Surf Fishing. That's right. DSS Custom. Great stuff, man. DSS custom tackle.com. Full website, full of great gear and setups if you need floats, rigs, swivels, a whole bunch of the other gear that you might use. Yeah, they got you covered. And you can go back on the website, get in into the weeds. There's a lot of different things. There's more that I'm not telling you about, but go take a look at the website sometime and you'll see some really good stuff. There's also the capability to be, I don't know, supplied as a rig maker. It's hard to sometimes get these supplies. Well, they got you covered. Reach on out to 'em dss custom tackle.com. Ask 'em questions. If you got anything you need, ask 'em. They can probably find it. All right, let's get into this.
Speaker 1 (00:01:13):
All right, we're jumping on the plane. That's right. We're going west again. And we're going to Cali. We're actually going somewhere kind of familiar to me, which is really disturbing. So we're gonna San Diego area. And for those of you who haven't followed the show, I used to live out in Cali for a very long time. I was stationed out Camp Pendleton, California from Dear Lord, 2000 until we left in 2017. So San Diego is a, it's a nice place. There's some fun stuff there, and there's some awesome fishing. Socal has a whole world of itself, and if you haven't been, trust me when I say Cal SoCal is different than the rest of California. It really is. And today we're gonna be talking with WF tv. If you haven't seen it, wv RF tv, all on all social media platforms. It'll be tagged back on finding demo spearfishing. You'll be able to find it. But if you just put that into your search bar, you're gonna get plenty. And the great thing is, is you're gonna see who he is the way you should . Because if you saw it any other way, I would be, but hurt and I'd be actually a little upset. We were talking about a previous show. So without further ado, coach, welcome to the show, man.
Speaker 2 (00:02:17):
What's good, my man? What's good,
Speaker 1 (00:02:19):
? I love it. So before we even ask questions, I'm gonna ask one here, because they're, you know, new people are seeing this, they're like, what the hell, what is this? Please explain the mask and how that came about.
Speaker 2 (00:02:33):
So, so I mean, the, the real background with the mask was I got skin cancer 12 years ago. I was diagnosed with subdermal. I, I had subdermal melanoma and, no, no, no, no, no. It was subdermal carcinoma and nodular melanoma. And they took a row out behind here that were tunneling in towards my spine. I asked, I asked everybody that I came in contact with in healthcare, what can I do about this? You know, what do I do? And they said, well, there's really nothing you can do. You can't really protect yourself. The damage is already done. So, believe it or not, back when Comfort Overcast was a thing, this was before most of these fishing buff companies existed. I, I somehow won in a drawing or whatever. I submitted a picture of one of my kids with a spotted bay bass or something, and they gifted me one of these masks. Well, I started wearing it at work. I started wearing all the time fishing. I started wearing it. Basically, anytime the sun was up, I had the stupid thing on. They took, they took the subdermal counts off my neck and they ran from the mid eighties and lower nineties down to below 10.
Speaker 2 (00:03:42):
So pretty much anytime anyone saw me out in public or out doing anything, I had, I had one of these on. And so it got to the point where it's just kind of iconic for me to wear it. And I've asked the boys at the Mad Max Fishing Club and submission phishing company and some of the other podcasts and ask San Diego Fish Guys, which is no longer a website by the way. San Diego ssd sd fish.com is no longer extant. The owner ditched it and all of us that were on there and had poured all those tens of millions of hours of reports on there, we all got shoved off onto other platforms. It's a long story, not one worth mentioning. But anyways, for a long time I was a very active member there and gave a lot of advice on everything from fish and micros to swordfish. 'cause I've done it all. And and in every single photo, every single video I was wearing one of these. So it's just kind of become a thing.
Speaker 1 (00:04:38):
Yeah, I I noticed it when I, so when I started looking you up, 'cause I found out about you through a second friend of yours and I was going through and I was like, why is he always wearing, like, I mean, I get it. I'm always normally wearing my hoodie when I'm fishing. And I was just like, well, okay, maybe it's something else, but it's become iconic. You are right. So I, I am glad that I'm glad you did it just for that real fact, , we didn't, we didn't, we're not reinventing the wheel here, so that's good stuff.
Speaker 2 (00:05:04):
I even asked, I even asked the Mad Max and on Roman Castro's channel fishy Hour for those of us, for anybody who wants to tune in, you know, sometimes I'm a contributor on Fishing Hour. I was a contributor on Mondays for hell, I want to say two years. Wow. So anybody who wants my hot take on anything, you can head over there if you want and go check him out. But but yeah, I did I did Mondays on Fish Hour for a long time, wearing the mask the whole time. And I even asked the max, I said, you know, most of you have seen me a bare face. Do you want me to come on here? Just show on my face. It was unanimous. It was instantaneous. It was No, no, no, no. It was like, it was like a huge scrolling of nose down the side. So, and hell, I guess it's working for me, so I'll keep it. Yep.
Speaker 1 (00:05:47):
Run it. Don't change it. Don't change any of it.
Speaker 2 (00:05:50):
And yes, you can drink through a man,
Speaker 1 (00:05:53):
You can and it increases the flavor for later. So that's even better.
Speaker 2 (00:05:57):
Cold filtered baby all day.
Speaker 1 (00:06:00):
. Alright, let's get right into the podcast questions here. We'll start it right off from the beginning. Tell us your story and what got you into fishing.
Speaker 2 (00:06:07):
The old man used to take me out. My, one of my first formative memories was going down behind the Hotel Del Corn Auto, one of the most iconic hotels in the world with my father and I, I might've even been in diapers in my memory. I'm not a hundred percent sure. And he was catching all these shovel, nose guitar, fish and surf perch and just all kinds of random stuff. My, my dad was really a bluegill fisherman, kind of a single species guy. That was what he really loved to do. So, I mean one of my first formative memories, one of the first things I can remember of my life, other than my mother and curlers while I was watching I was watching one of the original Godzillas on a little black and white TV, was him catching all those guitar, fish and random garbage out of the surf there behind the Hotel Dell. So I've got the pedigree, I guess, here in San Diego. So,
Speaker 1 (00:07:00):
Yeah. And that is a nice place to fish. That is for sure. Alright. What type of fishing do you like to do now?
Speaker 2 (00:07:06):
Right now? A number of years ago, I got into a car accident about 14 years ago, and I kinda started the degradation of my spine. So about five years ago. I gave out. Until then I was fishing tuna when I was a young man. We still had commercial fishing here in San Diego. So I worked tuna, I worked swordfish, I worked I worked down south off Central America on long line. Did a very, very short stint, long lining in the Indian Ocean. Spearfished, a lot of Florida and a lot of the tropical Atlantics saw the Caribbean. No, I mean I, I've been around, I've been around, you know, I've, I've seen a fish or two in my time. Yeah,
Speaker 1 (00:07:47):
You have. And the Indian Ocean. If so, if in any, you've never really thought about the Indian ocean, 'cause it's way the hell out. There is some serious wave and water action that happens in that body of water. Some of the biggest surf I've ever been in was in the middle of the Indian Ocean. So yeah, that's, that's one I would never play with lightly.
Speaker 2 (00:08:08):
I, I remember, so we blew a, we blew a through bearing and I had the experience of a lifetime. I got the opportunity to dock in the Christmas islands.
Speaker 1 (00:08:17):
Oh. Between,
Speaker 2 (00:08:18):
Between Australia and, and Indonesia.
Speaker 1 (00:08:20):
Wow. Okay. We
Speaker 2 (00:08:22):
Were, we were confined on ship. We could only fish to feed ourselves. There was like four species allowed, I think it was pick handle barracuda blue edge jack, or, or what I call Aya Aya soul. I, i, I don't know the real name for the fish, but the third fish was job fish. And then the fourth one we were allowed to feed ourselves was oh, NABARD macro mackerel. Mm-Hmm. . Those were the four. We were allowed to fish a narrow bard. Mackerel are pretty amazing. Is it? Okay. They're a lot more like Oahu even than a king.
Speaker 1 (00:08:56):
Oh, okay. So as soon as you said that. So as soon as I heard mackerel, I mean, Macker's a strong fish. You gotta really, like, I enjoy Spanish. I haven't had the others yet, but I, I was instantly thinking, Ooh, she's gonna be a strong flavor.
Speaker 2 (00:09:08):
I, I found 'em very palatable myself. I mean, experience of course, and taste varies. But, but yeah, we were, we were allowed those four fish to feed ourselves while we were docked there. We blew a through bearing. And I was actually the guy that had to go overboard and plug the hole after the, after we pulled the shaft out. . So, so, so I had a once in a lifetime fishing a place that most, that 99.999999999% of anglers never see in their lifetime, no matter how wealthy they are or not. As a protector of the Australian government. And they had, they had the gunship on us too while we were there. So if, if we, if we disobeyed the rules, they were in a hole, us . But yeah, that was my introduction to the, to the Indian Ocean. That and the 150 foot waves that didn't move. That was wild. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (00:09:58):
Then it's real, ladies and gentlemen, seriously, the Indian Ocean is, is it's a different beast. It really is. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (00:10:04):
I, I had never seen a wave that didn't move before
Speaker 1 (00:10:07):
. So
Speaker 2 (00:10:08):
I guess where the current dumps out of the South China Sea and where it circles around the north side of Australia, I guess it pushes the water up into these standing waves that don't hardly move. That was wild. I, I had never seen that. And it's my understanding that that doesn't happen real often. And you know, I say 150 feet, maybe they were only 90 or something, I don't know. But it looked like a mountain from, for us. It's
Speaker 1 (00:10:29):
A giant. Yeah, it's huge. I mean, we went, we ran through in a storm and granted, I was in a warship. I was on a L P D and you know, they'd normally tell us, Hey, 30 feet's about what we like to maximum play with, and we're playing a little bit bigger boy leagues here. I was like, and you could feel it. And that's a lot of steel. So
Speaker 2 (00:10:46):
I, I just remember it was real slow going up the face , and then you kind just ski down the back into the next one. And, and there wasn't that many, maybe 10 of 'em that were all like a couple hundred yards apart. But that, that was some of the wildest water I've ever seen for sure.
Speaker 1 (00:11:01):
Yeah. No, I wouldn't do that again. But personally, me personally, no. I'm, I'm good. It's a good memory Check ,
Speaker 2 (00:11:09):
Check the box and move on, baby.
Speaker 1 (00:11:11):
Yes, sir. Alright. What is your favorite thing about fishing?
Speaker 2 (00:11:16):
I think my favorite, I I have two sides. So there's the social side of fishing, right? It's where you get together with your buddies, you have the fish fry at the end of the day, you're hanging out, or you know, you're with the, you you're with your boys from the club, or you know, the Mad max in my case, the M M F C there. So, so there's the social side, but then there's also the personal side. There's the piece of you that's standing out on the cliffs at nine o'clock at night hoping another Calico bass will bite your bait.
Speaker 1 (00:11:49):
,
Speaker 2 (00:11:50):
There's, there's, there's that striving for the next, it's that sense of achievement when you, and, and even if you didn't, you're like, well, I took three waves to the face, but you know what? I went and did it.
Speaker 1 (00:12:01):
Mm-Hmm. ,
Speaker 2 (00:12:03):
I went and did it.
Speaker 1 (00:12:05):
Cliff fishing's a different ball game too. And not a lot of people, I mean, it's a specific type of fishing when you get into cliff fishing. Yes. And I, I can honest I've seen it. I can honestly, I've never done it, but in the comparison of what I've watched you guys do and how you do it versus what we do in the sand, whole different mentality and game of play, lots more to factor in.
Speaker 2 (00:12:27):
There's a lot of moving parts to cliff fishing. And of course there's also the whole danger aspect of it. Like, hey, maybe, who knows, maybe this will be the day I eat it and slide down the side. You know, I actually, I ate it in La Jolla about six months ago maybe. And I slid down about 20 feet of open rock
Speaker 1 (00:12:46):
Nice ketchup end though I caught,
Speaker 2 (00:12:47):
I, I caught, I caught myself. I caught myself. .
Speaker 1 (00:12:50):
That's the important patch
Speaker 2 (00:12:52):
In terms of the, it was only a 30 or 40 foot cliff, you know. But, you know, I fished this other place called Sunset Cliffs, where the cliffs are like 60 to 90 feet in places and you know, I mean,
Speaker 1 (00:13:03):
That's enough for two screams, for a repeat, for a breathe in scream. I mean, that's enough for that. No, no , we don't need that.
Speaker 2 (00:13:13):
True, true story. Back when Pokemon Go was a big deal, we had about half a dozen tourists in one week. Walk right off sunset Cliffs like eight to a hundred foot tall cliffs. Just walk right off chasing Pokemon. Gotta
Speaker 1 (00:13:24):
Keep your head up. They always tell you, look around, know your surroundings. Yep. No. Good. What is your favorite fish to target?
Speaker 2 (00:13:33):
If this, this will be weird and because it's a SoCal, no one will believe me. But my single favorite fish to target is a fish called a Sargo.
Speaker 1 (00:13:43):
Okay. Never heard of that one.
Speaker 2 (00:13:46):
Neither have 90%. Even here in Southern California, most people only occasionally accidentally catch a sargo if they're chucking plastics or a hard bait somewhere around rocks. And they hook one on accident. They're a crustacean eating member of the grunt family. They're, they're a true member of the grunts that gets to about six or seven pounds.
Speaker 1 (00:14:08):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (00:14:09):
They fight probably harder than almost any other saltwater fish I've fought pound per pound for pound. Go, go ahead and challenge me on it. Go ahead and talk smack. I I hear you in the comments section. Come at me, bro. Because sargo fight like crazy. I, I've had little ones like 10, 12 inches peel, drag and break me off before on light gear
Speaker 1 (00:14:28):
Straight up. Wow. Oh man,
Speaker 2 (00:14:31):
I can make this up. They, they fight hard. They have a small mouth. They're hard to hook. They're bait picky and Hmm. So, so, so getting a big one for the frying pan. And of course grunts are delicious. I I know you Florida guys are all a little bit about your grunts, but grunt grunts are delicious. We all know it. And this is a true grunt. And they have hard meat and they're, they fight like crazy. They have a small mouth. They're hard to hook Land landing a good sargo feels like an accomplishment every, every single time,
Speaker 1 (00:15:05):
Man. Now I'm gonna have to add that to the list to try to target. Okay, cool. And you know, you bring up an excellent point when you talk about Florida, but this is a lot of people since I've moved down here, I've heard nothing but, oh, that's a trash fish. Yo, why would you eat that? ? I've eaten a catfish. Catfish tastes just fine. I've had Bonita. Okay, not ama, it's not a tuna, but it's still pre I'll eat it. It's not gonna kill me. It's fine. It's like,
Speaker 2 (00:15:29):
You know what I've always thought funny about the Bonita, you all catch down there. What? This is something I found really hilarious. We have true bonito here. Yes, you do. Just like the doing portions, the, the of the Atlantic. And to be a bonito if bled and cooked freshly is an amazing food fish. Okay? Mm-Hmm. , you all have true tunas that you can target off the jetties sometimes in the surf from almost any of the peers. You have true tuna you can target without paying a couple hundred bucks a day for a party boat. And they are badmouthed. They are, they are gi slit and thrown to the sharks. They're tossed on the bank. They're throwing in the trash cans on the piers. You have true tuna you can target there. Those little tummy and false alor, depending on which side of the coast you're on down there Yep. Are amazing. They fight hard. If you bleed 'em and keep 'em on ice and cook 'em real fresh, they're pretty good. I mean, I wouldn't say they're amazing, but No, you're making fine there. Yeah. Tuna salad, fish dip, smoked tuna perfectly fine.
Speaker 1 (00:16:36):
Yep. Gets the job done. I mean, that's what you spoiled
Speaker 2 (00:16:39):
Yahoo .
Speaker 1 (00:16:42):
So I don't trust people when they tell me it's a trash fish until I eat it. Yeah. Because I'm like, no, I'll find, like I've, I'm originally from New England, so I'm used to the big blues, like the rude, the Big Boys. And we catch a blue fish down here. It's probably, I don't know, 12, 13, maybe 15 inches. And that's kind of, you know, that's a good day. And then I get the, in the comments, the New Englanders, oh, that's a baby. It's like, dude, we don't get 'em like that down here. Nope. We don't get to your cold water. We don't get the
Speaker 2 (00:17:05):
Big ones. It it, it's funny because for years I took vacations Toledo Key and I would throw popper at dawn and dusk. I would just catch as many fish as I possibly could. And I caught this blue fish that was probably, I don't know, four or five pounds. And everybody that was standing around off of that jetty was just absolutely floored that I caught this thing . I thought it was kind of funny 'cause I have fish at Central, central Atlantic and a few other spots that had, you know, beefy blue fish and I mean, just the way the, the local guys were like, oh my lord, that's one of the biggest blue fish I've ever seen. . It was a big meaty fish, don't get me wrong. But
Speaker 1 (00:17:46):
Yeah. And when people tell me blue, they're like, oh, I don't eat it. I use it as bait. I'm like, what the hell man? Blue fish is delicious. You gotta cut the bloodline. It's not that bad. Cut that little dark out, bleed them out, done
Speaker 2 (00:17:57):
Bleed them out. Keep 'em on ice when they're firmed up after being on ice, filet 'em out, cut all the bloodline out, use all of the head guts, skin bloodline and shark bait and chuck's. Nothing wrong with that actually. Not at all. And and actually, I mean, if you're making it into something like fish dip or smoke, it's perfect. It's fine. That high oil content will stand up to heavy heat, strong spices. Anyway.
Speaker 1 (00:18:26):
Yeah, no, we can do it. We can talk about that all day. Because I love talking fish is talking fish and cooking fish. That's, that's good languages right there, . I mean that's, that's good times. Alright, let's, let's dig into the memory. We got a little bit here in the memory banks. Before we go into the fishing tips, tricks and knowledge. What has been one of the craziest or your favorite fish besides the sargo? ?
Speaker 2 (00:18:47):
You know, one of my favorite accidental catches, so I fish a lot of saltwater panfish 'cause my arm doesn't work as good anymore and my back is kind of jacked and my hip sciatica and all this nonsense, spinal drift, disc bulge, nerve impingement. These are words that come up over and over again when I go to the doctor
Speaker 1 (00:19:09):
getting older. I mean, for the week getting old hurts, that's for sure.
Speaker 2 (00:19:14):
Yep. It all hurts. And none of the pills do anything about it. The alcohol helps me not care, but that's about it. Yeah. So one of, one of my favorite accidental catches is what they call a surf tractor. Okay. So, so, so the guys that fish Bat rays, the, and believe me, there's a dedicated group of a few dudes that target a special stingray called the Bat Ray here in Southern California.
Speaker 1 (00:19:38):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (00:19:39):
Okay. Bat rays have incredible stamina. They reach weights that are amazing. Catching a 200 pounder for a guy who does it all the time is not that rare. Okay. We're talking a 200 pound fish from shore in the middle of January at night,
Speaker 1 (00:19:56):
. Okay. Now we're adding, this is
Speaker 2 (00:19:58):
A very, this is a very rare thing in the world. A 200 pound fish in the middle of summer, you guys are like, yeah, shut up and get outta here. But do it in January, almost anywhere here in southern California. That's when these big bat rays with wingspans of over 54 inches come in, invade the back base, eat clams. And there is a small but dedicated group of dudes that go out and catch these things that weigh 250 pounds or more. True story. Woo
Speaker 1 (00:20:26):
Hoo hoo.
Speaker 2 (00:20:28):
Now, every once in a while, one of these guys accidentally hooks a fish called a surf tractor. This is, this is a shovel nose guitar fish over six feet long.
Speaker 1 (00:20:38):
Oh no. Nope, nope.
Speaker 2 (00:20:43):
I love when I accidentally hook one of these when I'm, when I'm fishing, as long as it's not too big. Yeah. I love hook getting a big guitar fish on light gear. They peel drag, they run all over the place, they swim crazy. And then when you get 'em to shore and you see this flat, ugly thing with tiny eyeballs, you can't help but laugh and, and realize that that was one of the most fun fights on Panfish gear. You could've hoped for, you know, this 3, 4, 5 foot long guitar fish that took you for a ride for a half an hour. I, I mean, I thi I think it's amazingly cool. I get it. If you just think there's some trash fish or hate him. And actually I find him pretty edible too. So if I hook one bad and he's bleeding everywhere, I, I have no problem taking one home and cutting it up and throwing it in the frying pan.
Speaker 2 (00:21:27):
They are a little salty, but you know, the meat is, is very tight grained. It's very firm. I, I find 'em very palatable, but it's just a super fun fish that isn't really available over most of the world. People who catch guitar, fish and their kin live in places like South Africa and the Ivory Coast in Africa and southern California. That's about the only place you hear about these fish. So I think it's really cool that we have access to this fish that is limited distribution across the world, can, can reach fairly sizable sizes and really just swims crazy.
Speaker 1 (00:22:05):
So the episode I did with Go Fish tours out of South Africa, Nick had mentioned something about that. I didn't know it was called a surf tractor. So now I'm like, okay, now I'm understanding what he was talking about and what you're talking about. Yeah,
Speaker 2 (00:22:20):
Fish, they, they swim crazy. I, I don't know how to describe this. Like, it'll kind of just be coming in and all of a sudden it'll suction into the ground. So you're prying on the thing, then all of a sudden it just takes off a hundred yards . Then you have to fight it back and you have to hope you have a wave to surf it in on and God help you. If you're on the cliffs, you're just completely boned. But I, I mean, I, I find it, I, I find catching a, a good size, one of those, some of the most fun accidental catch you could possibly have.
Speaker 1 (00:22:54):
It sounds like it. . Well, you've been fishing a long time. You've, like you said, you've world traveled and you've seen a ton of things. Is there anything left on your bucket list that you want to catch?
Speaker 2 (00:23:08):
So, when I was a young man, and I mean a young man, I was a commercial fisherman that fished off Central America. And if there's one fish, I don't know if that, I would call this a bucket list. I would call this the revisit, if this was something I could go and relive. It's casting huge handmade surface plugs to those blue jacks in Central America
Speaker 1 (00:23:30):
. Okay.
Speaker 2 (00:23:32):
And just, just watching, just chugging across the top of the water. And then it looks like somebody kicked a, a tv out of a plane onto your lure just watching the blow up and the fish just comes out of the water and it's brilliant blue. If there was one I could go back to revisit, that would be the fifth.
Speaker 1 (00:23:50):
That sounds fun. I mean, terrifying at the same time, seeing that blow, I'm like, oh crap. Yes. But, oh man,
Speaker 2 (00:23:57):
Just, just insane. I I, we always call them Kava Oro, which is like their colloquial name down there. Uhhuh, but I guess it's a blue edge Trey or something, or a blue star Trey or I, I don't know what the actual name of this fish is. But watching and especially fishing off of like the peaks uhhuh, so like the portions of CNA that are real steep and dump off into deep water. It's like these steep volcanic ridges that come down off the mountains into the water. So you have the jungle right there, then you have like this little narrow band of barrenness and then you have these roads where it comes down off the mountain and you just chug. You just see those fish just come up and just crush it. .
Speaker 1 (00:24:39):
Yeah. That had to been so fun. Well along the same lines with this question then, 'cause like I said, you've traveled a lot. Has there, is there any other place that you would wish that you dreamed to go up and get a line wet and go fishing?
Speaker 2 (00:24:52):
Well, you have to remember, I, I had the once in a billion opportunity opportunity to fish the Christmas island.
Speaker 1 (00:24:58):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (00:25:00):
The first time you see a school of pick handle barracuda so big that the water turns black and you're looking at the bottom in 200 feet.
Speaker 1 (00:25:08):
Mm-Hmm.
Speaker 2 (00:25:08):
pretty much ruins you for life.
Speaker 1 (00:25:10):
Yeah. You're screwed .
Speaker 2 (00:25:11):
Yeah. It's like, I mean, I'd love to go back to Central America. I'd love to go back to the Christmas islands. I mean, here's the thing though. I mean, my body physically just can't take anything like that anymore. Yeah. So if I could go back and maybe even if I could fish for like, Hawk fish in Southern Baja, that's something I haven't done because when I was a kid, there were still lots of groupers and big snappers and stuff like that down there. So the hawk fish hadn't taken over. But now I guess the Hawk fish have commandeered all that dirt that used to belong to all the snappers and hogfish and groupers and the, and the pe Gallos and all that stuff that's been fished out at the southern end of Bo. So you get this meaty sea bass looking things about two feet long, and I guess they've just taken over everywhere around the whole cape. So if I was gonna go down there and fish again, I would love to catch some of those. I I hear that they're phenomenal eating. They fight like crazy. They'll hit top water. That sounds like some serious fun
Speaker 1 (00:26:17):
Well, this one's gonna be a tough one for you because in case, you know, anyone else is, you know, if you haven't picked your jaws up off the floor yet after listening to this, because I mean, I'm still like, yes, this is awesome. I wanna do all these things. this question's gonna be a real hard one then. What has been your favorite fishing memory?
Speaker 2 (00:26:36):
There's been, there's been a couple that I don't think I'll beat. I, I caught a 425 pound giant grouper or Queensland group where you wanna, whatever you wanna call that on Handline.
Speaker 1 (00:26:49):
On a handline.
Speaker 2 (00:26:51):
Yeah. All this.
Speaker 1 (00:26:53):
Oh
Speaker 2 (00:26:53):
My God. Let, lemme let, lemme preface this. So I was a young man once upon a time that was not all broken and beaten. Okay. There, I promise you there was a time in my life when my thoughts were short and my hair was very long to quote Kid Rock. Okay. So I I've got a couple if you, if you wanna bear with me,
Speaker 1 (00:27:16):
Yeah, send it, man. I'm loving it. Hey, this is part of the story that I, you get to share with us and we, I will happily listen .
Speaker 2 (00:27:23):
So all my fish over 200, 250 pounds, every single one of 'em has been caught on Handline. So that includes, that includes a 425 pound giant grouper, a Queensland group or a Bumblebee group or whatever you wanna call that thing, which isn't even big for those, they get to like seven or 800 pounds. I caught a actually my former statement's not true. We'll get to that in just a minute. I just had another memory.
Speaker 1 (00:27:51):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (00:27:52):
I caught, I caught a, I caught a, a swordfish on hand line that weighed around 5 50, 600.
Speaker 1 (00:27:58):
Ooh.
Speaker 2 (00:28:01):
I've caught several, several tuna and the super cow class. So 300 plus on hand line. We did chase a, a massive tiger shark around Cancun Harbor once upon a time. So the tourists would come, they would catch two of these Dorado, right. And the living in Mexicos to Dorado. So the guides would filet 'em out and they would send 'em to the local restaurant with four filets, and then they would just throw all the bodies off the ends of the docks. Well, this huge girl was just swimming in circles over and over around the end of the docks. I'm sure Cancun is not like this anymore, but once upon a time, it just basically had a rock qua on one side and then pilings driven into the mud on the other, and like a walking duck. So I launched the zodiac, we grabbed the biggest gear we had, I think it was a 12 or 15 knot with 150 pound line on it.
Speaker 2 (00:28:50):
And we hooked this girl and we chased her around till she got tired and got her up to the, to the boat. And I think she was 19 foot two, I think. Holy, I don't remember what the girth measurement was, but she was like 1800 pounds I think. But good girl. Yeah, it was, it was some ridiculous nonsense that makes, you know, but this was like the captive shark in Cancun Arbor Once upon a time. And we, we, I should say we pulled the boat close enough to her to get the hook out. Just really what we did. We didn't really catch her, so to speak. But that was a pretty fun memory. And then I had the pleasure of fishing the white banks one time and that was off Venezuela. And I remember seeing, it sounds weird even to say it, but I literally saw the school of white marlin feeding on juvenile black fan tuna. That was so big you couldn't see the end.
Speaker 1 (00:29:43):
Wow. Holy crap. It was
Speaker 2 (00:29:46):
Crap. It was like, like, like the swords were sticking up everywhere. The water was red. It was, it was a mess, but it was white marlin feeding on juvenile black then.
Speaker 1 (00:29:58):
Jeez. That yeah, that sounds like a bloodbath.
Speaker 2 (00:30:01):
Yeah. That, that was pretty wild. I saw something I couldn't explain off Central America a long time ago. I'd say it moved a lot like a Mako or great white, but it looked like it was like 40 to 60 feet long. I
Speaker 1 (00:30:14):
it's the meg just call it a meg.
Speaker 2 (00:30:17):
I, I don't have an explanation for it to this day. We'd seen whale sharks many times. I've seen lots of stuff a bunch of times. Tho those are all memories that stand out,
Speaker 1 (00:30:27):
You know, as well as any, anyone and well before I get into this, we gotta knock on a paycheck. Let's do that first and then I'm gonna make my comment 'cause Yeah, this is getting good.
Speaker 1 (00:30:43):
It's your first paycheck of the episode. Hopefully you've caught a bunch of fish by now and you're doing fine. Everything's great and you're just enjoying this whole show. And if you haven't yet, double checked the bait. Make sure it's good. If you gotta switch it up, switch it up. This paycheck's being brought to you by Kids Can Fish Foundation. Kids can fish.net is a group that gets together in St. Simon's Island, Georgia. And they bring these kids out together to do camps and all the money that you donate to them and for their tournaments goes back into the program for the kids to get rods reels, cast nets that a bunch of gear so that way they can continue on with fishing. They're the next generation of anglers out there. They're getting the addiction. We've already got it. So we're passing it on to quote old Captain Dave.
Speaker 1 (00:31:22):
It was a good one that he gave me there. So kids can fish.net. Really great program. And they are a 5 0 1 C 5 0 1 3 C. That's the proper word group. They got you covered. So they've also got the St. Simons Island running of the Bulls tournament. I will be there. Lots of fun. It's gonna be a great time. So kids can fish.net. Great group doing great things. Keep it up and like their great slogan that's not official. More tackle boxes, less X boxes. Keep them kids fishing. So good. Alright, so I was gonna make this comment. I'll say it now before we move into the fishing tips and tricks with your world travel. And I'm, I'll put my tin fat and my tin hat on here. There is some weird crap in the ocean that most people would not believe you if you told them about it. And you have seen some of that stuff, especially with your travels.
Speaker 2 (00:32:12):
I mean, an old timer when I first got started in commercial fishing, an old timer outta Ensenada that used to lay in tuna here in San Diego, he, I'd go out with him and I'd help him bait the lobster pots. He was an old, he was an old broken man just like I am now, but well even older and bro older and more broken than I am now. And I, and I dropped something over the side, you know, a two and a ahead or something. I, you know, I tried to apologize to him. He just laughed and told me, he said, son, the ocean's full of teeth.
Speaker 1 (00:32:47):
It. And he ain't wrong , he ain't wrong at all. .
Speaker 2 (00:32:53):
And I have seen nothing in all the years since to contradict anything he said,
Speaker 1 (00:32:59):
. Perfect. Alright, so let's get into the fun part of stealing your knowledge here. That's the sharing piece because everyone knows this is where it really gets important and we all do hope you all fish. And this is why we do the podcast, is for you to gain knowledge whether you're gonna go out to SoCal or you can actually use pretty much every tip that you learn throughout there. It's the minor details that really matter. So when you're gonna go fishing out at the beach into the surf areas, the cliffs, how do you plan your fishing trips?
Speaker 2 (00:33:25):
Okay, so there's two things. There's sunrise, there's sunrise, sunset, which are halves of the same coin, and then there's the tide. Now conditions play a third role, but primary are those two. If if you're, if you're talking about sunrise and sunset and tide, you're already in the right neighborhood. Of course, conditions can up and screw you no matter what you do.
Speaker 1 (00:33:52):
Yeah, of course. I,
Speaker 2 (00:33:53):
I mean maybe some eight foot swells pass through, ripped up all the surf grass or down there where you have turtle grass deposited all on the beach and then all of a sudden you just got way too many balls in the air to try to try to begin to approach things. But that said, I'm a firm believer of if you have enough water to work with, there's always a chance it might just be fishing micros or, or what they call trash or crab fish or whatever. But I can't tell you how many times I've gone out looked at the surf, it was black with surf grass, just big watts of garbage everywhere. And I mean, people talk about La Jolla being exceptionally clear water. Yeah. It's clear until you get 8,000 pounds of surf grass per under yards in it. Yep. Then it, it's unfishable no matter what you do. So, so you look and you think, well, I have the tide in my favor and sunset is approaching, so those smaller fish will need to feed. Right,
Speaker 1 (00:35:00):
Right.
Speaker 2 (00:35:01):
Like, well, can we find a tide pool that's not choked with grass, pull a few opal eye out, maybe some woolly sculpins or rock grass or something like that. Many, many times I have gone down to the water and looked and conditions have been terrible. But you know what I found, I, I found a gap in the grass, a little hole in the interior reef somewhere, threw a couple handfuls of bread, got the fish hummed up, and I had a 30 to 60 fish session over the course of an hour and a half or two. Nothing big, but it's a lot better than driving down to the water, taking a look and driving home.
Speaker 1 (00:35:35):
Yeah. . Yes, very much so.
Speaker 2 (00:35:40):
So I mean, you, you have sunrise, sunset, and you have the tide conditions are that third factor. Like, you know, if, if you don't have the tide working for you, if you don't have enough water in front of you, you're gonna be hosed no matter what you do. Conditions aren't gonna matter at that point. So make sure there's enough water laying on your spot. Use that sunrise and sunset to your advantage. So that's the changing of the guard, right? So if you fish that last hour of dark heading into sunrise, you have the last hour the nighttime fish can feed. So here in Southern California, fish like soup, fin sharks, bat rays calico bass spotted bay bass. That is their last chance to feed heavily at during the nighttime.
Speaker 2 (00:36:30):
When the daytime comes, a different set of predators arrives on the scene. So that's their first shot at it. So I like high tides, or at least incoming tides at sunrise and sunset, that'll tilt the odds in your favor automatically, no matter where on earth you are that I've been y your your odds are better if you're fishing sunrise or sunset with at least an incoming tide, if not incoming high. If it's sweeping into the, in, into the high. Like during, at like right. When you're planning to quit fishing, you're maximizing your chances. I don't care if you're in Florida, I don't care if you're in Delaware, I don't care if you're in Southern California. I don't care if you're in Alaska or Panama. Make the most of the opportunity you have. And if you're flexible on target, like I said I went yesterday morning, LA Jolla was sucked in with grass, water was clear as could be. I found a couple of tide pools that had less grass. I hummed up a few micros and I went home with five or six fish that I wouldn't have caught if I wasn't flexible on target.
Speaker 1 (00:37:31):
Yeah, that's, that's one thing I love about salt is you can be flexible. That's, that's one of the fun parts about surf fishing. You don't have, I mean you can target sure, but you, there's so many great by catches you can get your self into.
Speaker 2 (00:37:47):
I mean I've, I've had, I've had evening sessions here in southern California where I caught 25 species.
Speaker 1 (00:37:54):
Oh, nice. Yes.
Speaker 2 (00:37:57):
I I mean it's, it's wild to think about, but like, you know the guy that's the guy that's watched YouTube and he's throwing a three inch grub on a three eight ounce lead head, that that guy isn't capable of catching 28 species in a night. Or at least it's extremely unlikely.
Speaker 1 (00:38:14):
Yeah, yeah. Makes sense. Having
Speaker 2 (00:38:16):
Some flexibility and target your size of hooks, your approach, being willing to chum a little really helps. And I'm not really fancy with my chum, you know, my kid didn't eat a hot a hot dog earlier today, so I put in a bag with some salt and the rest of the bun he didn't eat. And that's all gonna go in the water. When I fish, fish tomorrow,
Speaker 1 (00:38:36):
Fish will eat it. They'll happily eat it. No,
Speaker 2 (00:38:38):
They'll, they won't care one way or the other. And if, and if the fish I'm targeting won't eat it, maybe the fish that's targeting that I'm targeting that they're eating will eat it. , if you get a lot of bait gathered around, a lot of times every predator in the in the neighborhood knows right where you are. I've seen it countless times. There's primary chumming, which is chumming to your target, and then there's secondary chumming, which is chumming to the whatever your target's eating. So
Speaker 1 (00:39:08):
, yeah, see that, that, that word that's the word that is the piece. There's always something that works with that. Yep. Okay. So we've got the, we got the plan there with the tides and sunrise sunset. Now you've already picked your or your plan for that. Now let's get into the other one. How do you select the spot that you are going to fish?
Speaker 2 (00:39:28):
I go and look there, there's, there's no experience, there's no substitute for time on the water, right? That's been a phrase longer than you and I have been alive. But ultimately speaking, and, and even if you're like, you know what? Conditions are terrible, I'm not gonna fish. You could turn around and drive home or you could grab a pair of binoculars and start looking around. You can use that opportunity to increase your own knowledge. Like, hey, how is the bait laying up against this, this ledge right here? Hey, I see some shimmering on the water right there. It looks like some, some mid-level predator has moved in small jacks, or in our case jack mackerel or, or Chubb Mackerel Pacific Chubb mackerel has moved in on this corner that'll tell you what the predators are doing in that time. And I'll also tell you where, hey, you know what? I wanted to load a surf perch or opal eyes or something for dinner. You know what? They're not gonna be here 'cause there's sharks all over this corner
Speaker 1 (00:40:33):
And they don't go where the predators are. They're not gonna walk into a blood bath building. They're,
Speaker 2 (00:40:37):
They're peeling out, they're heading that way . So I mean, just use every opportunity you can. It. That's what I tell people starting out. If there, if there's three pieces of advice I can give you your first day on, the water's gonna be tomorrow, spend tonight watching TV while you tied the same knots over and over. An hour spent tying knots. Isn't an hour wasted And you watched your show anyways, right? So why not use that time? Okay, you drove the 20 minutes to the beach or you drove the 40 minutes to the beach, or you know, for, for people visiting the Gulf, 6, 8, 10 hours to the beach, you know, it's blown out. You've got these lateral waves washing down the shore that it's unfishable for how you want to fish. You got two options. You can turn around and go home or you can try to make good on the scenario, haul out the binoculars, watch the birds. What are the birds doing? How's the bait laying along that break? What's happening on the outside of the sandbar? A lot of the stuff you can see just haul out a cheap junk pair of binoculars from Amazon. It'll give you a wealth of information about what's happening.
Speaker 1 (00:41:46):
Just a little forward never hurts. And yeah, the turnaround parts sucks.
Speaker 2 (00:41:51):
That much, that much forethought is all it takes.
Speaker 1 (00:41:56):
Very, very true. Well let's get into this next piece then when it comes to that. 'cause You really, you tied it in nicely. I love how you did that. So you, you've got the spot, you're in there now. You're going in with the gear with the different types of species. I know it's calling. You're gonna have to play different games. Now let's talk about what you're looking for to start your casting. Where you're gonna throw, well where are you going with this?
Speaker 2 (00:42:20):
Okay, so for what I do, which is a lot saltwater panfish, right? I'm the end, the end goal is to have two fish for the next day. That's how I look at it. I can slather 'em in butter and put 'em on the George Foreman and at work and I can have a really nice lunch the next day that, that's my whole gig, right? So what I'm looking for is anywhere where the waves will push the smaller baits into a corner. If I can find that. And especially if I can chum to that, I'll be in the money, I'm eating lunch the next day. Whether it's a big rock RAs or an oli or a sargo or, or a midsize bass or you know, the other day I caught a, a legal sheep head. Not those sheephead, the other, the ones we have over here.
Speaker 2 (00:43:06):
. So yours are porkies, ours are RAs. Okay? They both are goofy, have weird looking teeth. They're very different fish. They kind of fill a similar ecological niche. Both are ugly as hell. I get it. You know, they have the teeth only and only your ex-mother-in-law could love. But very similar ideas, right? You're looking for something that's feeding on small crustaceans that are getting washed off a structure into a pocket. That's what you're looking for. I don't care if it's a sheep head porgy or the sheep head rasp. That's what you're gonna be looking for. Very simple. I'm looking for anywhere where small crustaceans are getting blown off of something and deposited.
Speaker 1 (00:43:48):
And the structure piece, like you just said there, it structure is not just rocks. People structure is anything different. If it, you know, a sandbar structure, a break, okay, now there's the structure opening. Now you start to, now you brought up one and I kind of wanna tie into that one. When you say getting thrown into a corner, into a pocket, you're talking about stuff like that, like the breaks or the next deep hole or the rock ball,
Speaker 2 (00:44:14):
Right? Or you, you know, one of, one of my favorite structures when I fished the ocean beach a lot, one of my favorites was rip currents.
Speaker 1 (00:44:20):
Oh, the greatest thing ever. It's,
Speaker 2 (00:44:23):
Yeah, because anytime you have the, the, that la Toro current flowing and then you have a current flowing out, there's a pocket there, there's a hole right there. If you can get into that, if you can, or if you can drift a bait, buy it or if you can use the current tier advantage so that you're holding on to where the current starts dropping off. And then you can guide your bait out. That can be real money. You could catch a fish every cast for hundreds of casts in a row sometimes in scenarios like that.
Speaker 1 (00:44:52):
Yeah. Those fish finder rigs in that setup with like a, not a hell, you can go egg sinker if you really wanna get thrown around. Bank sinkers are great for it, but getting that into the current and letting it walk itself right into the hole, for you it's money all day. You mean you're just rocking that through a Carolina
Speaker 2 (00:45:08):
And, and the flip and the flip side of that is using a, a weight just light enough, right? Because if you're using too heavy of a weight, it's gonna fall out too quick and you're not gonna make it to the pocket. So you have to, and I, and believe it or not, I've seen situations even here on the open beach where we have big surf and stuff. I've seen occasions where I hook on a ragged chunk of cut bait. I cast it into there with no weight or anything, just a Paloma mar knot for me in the hook. And I just, I just walk it out and then I hold enough tension on the side so it drops out and circles around. And I've done very, very well in situations like that.
Speaker 1 (00:45:43):
That's a good, nice technique. I might have to, I might have to go with that one. I haven't tried that yet. That's, that's pretty smooth.
Speaker 2 (00:45:48):
Yeah. It's, it, it, it's wild because the fish, you know, here in Southern California, a lot like Florida, these fish see rigs every day. So if you're used to, if you can get away with doing something different, something lighter, something less detectable, you have to think of it like those European car fishing guns.
Speaker 1 (00:46:05):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (00:46:06):
Less detectable, lighter weight. You don't want the fish to know anything is wrong until they're hooked before the split second before that fish is peeling, drag and hauling it. You don't want 'em to know anything is wrong. They can drop the bait, they could spit the bait, they could
Speaker 1 (00:46:29):
Just a little difference. That'll makes a huge one. Before I move into the next one, we're gonna do another paycheck 'cause we're a little bit we're a little behind from the beginning. 'cause I was on a happy roll and I wasn't about to change it. I wasn't about to stop it once, not even a little. Nope.
Speaker 1 (00:46:49):
It is the second paycheck of the episode and you've definitely caught fish. 'cause I mean, this, this episode's so much fun. I'm hoping y'all are having as much fun as I am. 'cause This is a blast. , this paycheck's being brought to you by the sinker guy and on over to the sinker guy.com and take a look at everything that chip's got going on in the sinker guy garage. You need Sputniks. Hey, he's got 'em. It's in his name. Maybe you need some tools. Pliers, scissors. Oh, I don't know, maybe a special cutter, maybe a bait thread tool. Yeah, lots of cool stuff in there. Rigs. You still got the Bruno rig. A great rig that's been setting up really well for people and lots of great stuff in there. So go on over to the sink guy.com. Get your order in today. Quick shipping. Great customer service. You can't go wrong. So when, when you talked about the tides you've talked about pretty much the big pieces there and cutting into that. Let's talk about the the evil monster in the sky for the night, the moon phases. Now moon has always got a little bit of a play in the game of fishing. What about you like to fish for a moon phase?
Speaker 2 (00:47:47):
Okay, so the, I would, okay, I'm gonna kind of oppose traditional whatever. Okay. J just a little bit. I I'm not totally disagreeing with the traditional advice of the whole full moon. And you know, and, and here in Southern California you have a special thing called the Gron run that's based on the moon phase, right? So it's these little fish that couple the beach deposit their eggs. That is a phenomenal time to fish. I don't give a crap who you are. If you are there at night and you are fishing your g gron running inside of California, your odds of catching something that weighs as much as you have just quadrupled. And then some that said the biggest effect to me that moon phase has is in the height of the tides.
Speaker 1 (00:48:32):
Ah, there it is. There it is. That's one thing nobody's mentioned. So,
Speaker 2 (00:48:36):
So here in SoCal we have the thing that we call the king tide. You don't really have that down there.
Speaker 1 (00:48:42):
Nope.
Speaker 2 (00:48:42):
But up here, the last couple of days, parking, beach, parking lots, a beginning flooded once you get the water above a certain level and the surf above a certain level, and it's been pretty high. You have the chance of, of sea water flowing into the ocean. Front communities here, our tides are usually pretty small compared to other places like England where they have 30 meter tides. A big tide here is like seven, eight feet.
Speaker 1 (00:49:08):
Yeah. Easy.
Speaker 2 (00:49:09):
But you get a tide over seven feet. You're talking about flooded parking lots. You're talking about running out of broom on the beach. So a lot of these beach areas are backed by Cliff here in Southern California. Places like Torry Pines, Delmar, south Orange County, San Clemente Moonlight, just we all the way up to Santa Barbara. A lot of these beach areas are backed by cliffs. And if you're dumb, you go out and fish these areas at night during a king tide. 'cause You are gonna run out dirt to stand on real quick and the cliff may come down on top of you in addition to that.
Speaker 1 (00:49:49):
Yeah, if you guys don't watch news on the SoCal, you, you, hell, I'll, I'll, I'll bring up one that I used to watch all the time since I was in the Inland Empire at K T L A. You catch up and watching the stuff that's happening up there when the storm comes through and all of a sudden you start seeing a house hanging over a ledge, you're like, hell, like that's, we call that Tuesday. That happens a lot when a king tide and yeah, it's real.
Speaker 2 (00:50:10):
And especially during spring and fall. But even during summer, like now, when we got big waves, the king, the king tide can straight up kill you. Yeah. I, I mean, I'm not even, I mean, even standing out on the cliffs, you're like, oh, I'm safe up here. Well, two waves become one. That eight foot wave becomes a 16 footer. All of a sudden it's reaching 70 feet up the cliffs. It'll wash you right off and kill you. So, I mean, to me, I, I may maybe put your 2 cents in on this, but to me it's like if you're unaware and you're not paying attention,
Speaker 1 (00:50:45):
You're, you're doomed. I mean, there's no other way to say that. 'cause You can't, I mean, most of us that are in the game of fishing, you know, you're gonna take a look at the tides. Nine times outta 10. You are going to look at the tide and you, if you follow all your apps, it's going to warn you. If it's a king tide, you will have a warning. You'll have something that says, Hey, it's going to be a 10 foot tide. Something to consider. And walking, like you said, if you're walking the beach where the cliff is now, you don't have an escape. What are you going to do? Because the tide's coming. You, there's no way out of this. And are you gonna trudge your back? You need to do it quickly because that tide comes in. You're done. It's over. Don't be screwing around with it.
Speaker 2 (00:51:23):
You know, I, I had times when I was younger and a little dumber, my hair was a little longer back when I had hair even that, you know, I just scrambled up the face of the cliff to get away, . But that, that's not really an ideal situation. It's not something you wanna put yourself into. I've, I had times on the jetty where, like I look back and the jetty is underwater because of the smell that just passed between me and shore.
Speaker 1 (00:51:46):
Ooh, that's a possible,
Speaker 2 (00:51:47):
I've seen it before. I've been out there, I've done it. I, I've been out on the cliffs when all of a sudden, you know, one night I called the wife, I said, well, sorry wife, I'm not gonna be home till later. 'cause I'm standing on top of some pickleweed behind some huge condo here in La Joa because I'm just cut off there. I have no way back. So I have to wait a couple hours for that tide to recede. Then I can actually, then I could actually have a safe walk back. But I mean, I was stuck underneath some stairs on the backside of a condo for two and a half hours one night. Even, you know, this was a few years ago, not like, back when I was 20
Speaker 1 (00:52:20):
.
Speaker 2 (00:52:21):
And, you know, I got the whole, you know, the whole angry Mexican wife thing of who is she? But no, I was actually stuck up, up against a condo in LA Oil.
Speaker 1 (00:52:30):
She's the Pacific Ocean, and she's a cruel. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (00:52:33):
. Yeah. That is a mean woman right there. She does not forgive you for any mistakes at all. The mistress is relentless.
Speaker 1 (00:52:41):
Yes. Yeah. She'll, and she
Speaker 2 (00:52:43):
Won't stop until you're dead sometimes.
Speaker 1 (00:52:45):
Yep. Yep. She will constantly take if you, if you don't pay attention to her. Yes. So you've mentioned, well, we actually haven't dug into this. So with different types of fishing out there, you have to use different rig styles, obviously, and you're not, I know you're throwing numerous different things. Do you have a preferred set that you like to utilize?
Speaker 2 (00:53:04):
So I have, okay. So keep in mind I'm old and set in my way, so I apologize to anyone I, I offend by this, but I use a very non-standard rig as I've gotten older. It's just a rig that works. I have one knot between me and the hook. It's very quick to retie. So I keep a long spider hitch above a surgeon's loop. That's what I do. I make my spider hitch almost long enough to tangle with my surgeon's loop. Almost
Speaker 1 (00:53:29):
Interesting.
Speaker 2 (00:53:32):
I get great bait movement. It's very snag resistant. And, okay, so further to further the snag resistance, like a lot of the areas I fish are mixed rock ke surf grass, sand. It's got, it's got everything within one cast. So I could be casting onto a, a steep side of a reef, or I could be casting onto sand 10 feet away. And a lot of the fishing I do is in the dark. So I, I need a very versatile rig, I find of all the loop knots, the spider hitches, by far the strongest. I fish straight mono. That's something to keep in mind. I don't fish leaders. I fish straight mono because it's a more abrasion resistant for me than fluoro. Like, gone, gone ahead. Bite me on this all day in the comment section. Tell me how resistant fluoro is, and then look up any of the thousands of tests that have been done by the Australians. The Mad Max Fishing Club did our own test on live on camera during fishy hour. Okay. Euo guys are full of crap. mono is way more abrasion resistant.
Speaker 1 (00:54:39):
Yeah,
Speaker 2 (00:54:40):
It's been, and it's the same thing I found in my personal life. It's
Speaker 1 (00:54:42):
Been proven. I'll agree with you. Mono is stronger than fluoro. Fluoro is not designed to be used like that.
Speaker 2 (00:54:49):
It's stronger. It's more abrasion resistant. It takes knots better end of story. And I mean, I, I don't care what you say about fluoro. There are occasions when fluoro makes sense basically for its syn rate. In every other scenario, I'm using mono and I fish straight mono. I don't fish braid to leader. I don't do any of that shenanigans. I, I'm willing to pay. If it takes me six bucks to go to the beach and back in gas, I can afford 40 cents worth of monofilament to fill, fill my reel . That, that's my opinion about it.
Speaker 1 (00:55:17):
Fair.
Speaker 2 (00:55:20):
But I, I have found that the spider hitch over the surgeon's loop, if my weight snags and I use steel, I use steel weights. I use things like spark plugs and bolts and nails and all kinds of stuff. I got a bucket full of chain link out here. And the reason I use steel is because I fish the same areas over and over again. And I don't want to turn my fishing area into the lead desert fair. Not only does it save a few bucks, but over time that steel's gonna go away and become part of the environment the IC organisms are gonna grow on. And it's not, it's not nearly as harmful to the environment as, as lead. So, anywhere I can, I use steel.
Speaker 1 (00:56:02):
Interesting. Also,
Speaker 2 (00:56:03):
I find, I, I find a, a chain, a section of chain like that, three or four smaller chain links, very, very snag resistant. It'll crawl over anything. Kelp, rocks, reefs, you know, the wind catches your line and it falls on the other side of the exposed rock in front of you. Well, you can just crawl it right back over until you 99 times out of a hundred.
Speaker 1 (00:56:25):
I mean, those smooth edges. That makes a lot of sense. It'll just roll right through it.
Speaker 2 (00:56:29):
It'll, I, I'm telling you, I've watched you just walk up over the rock and drop into the pocket many, many times. Wow. Thousands of times.
Speaker 1 (00:56:37):
, that's actually a really cool idea.
Speaker 2 (00:56:39):
And, and, and here in California, so I, I've got a job where not my department, one, the department ne next to mine replaces chains. So in California and soon to be federal law, no chain that's, that's used to support human weight, like a playground swing or anything like that, is allowed to be repurposed for any si situation where it can take human weight again. So all those, all those thousands of pounds of chains that get replaced a across the country every single day, all those end up in recycling dumpsters that your tax dollars pay to empty. So why not repurpose 10 or 20 or 40 or 80 pounds of it? I give it away to my friends here all the time.
Speaker 1 (00:57:27):
It makes Hmm, you're onto to something here.
Speaker 2 (00:57:31):
I now, mind you, it's not as aerodynamic as a regular of a regular lead weight or even a piece of rebar or something. If you want to go, you know, if I'm casting distance, I use solid steel. But for any, for just casting out and catching opal eyes and sargo and sand bass and rock grass and all the stuff I catch from the surf steel will do the job that I need it to do. It comes in every weight from a nail that big to, to five pound change rags I used to use for halibut from the kayak. It comes in every weight, it comes in every size, it comes in every style. It's very cheap. It's environmentally friendly. So call it the California need me, you can call me a kook, a goen what is it a try hard if you're up north in northern California, but really? Oh, no,
Speaker 1 (00:58:22):
. I haven't heard that in a while. . Yeah,
Speaker 2 (00:58:26):
I've been, I've been around. You can hate me. It's fine. You can call me whatever you want. And you know, I get it. For guys using sputniks or whatever like that, that really need to grip the bottom hard, they need trip outlets. They need self hooking rigs. You know, steel steel's not the choice in every scenario, even for, you know, if I need a light slider or if I'm using split shot, obviously lead's the way to go. But for the rigs I use, 90% of the time it's nothing particular. It's nothing specific. I don't have to dial it into one 10th of an ounce so I can cast, you know, I, I don't need all that. So if I'm casting 50 to 110 yards, I can use steel. Then when I break it off, it just becomes part of the environment and I move on.
Speaker 1 (00:59:07):
Yeah, that's a good way. I mean, full circle. So that works out nicely. Okay. So nice set up there. I mean, spider hitch on the surgeon loop. Cool. All right. So that's your setup there. Alright, so now we're gonna move into the last little pieces here and then we'll get into the social media piece portion of the interview. What do you do when you go fishing in a brand new place that you haven't been before?
Speaker 2 (00:59:30):
You know, I've been asked this question before and my approach is always the same. You know, instead of rushing down to the water and being in a hurry to get a bait out, I'll kind of just take 20, 30 minutes, step back, look around, what are the birds doing? What are the waves doing? Are they bouncing off of something? Where where does the wave break first? And where does the wave break last? Right. Very simple. You look for dark water, you look for white water. Take a step back, do a little analysis, take a look around if there's water behind you and in front of you, like a lot of places in Florida and here, maybe look behind you, take a look. What's it gonna do? Cost you five minutes?
Speaker 1 (01:00:20):
Oh no. But the
Speaker 2 (01:00:21):
Intel you gather from that might be make your whole day, your whole week if you're on vacation somewhere and be like, you know what? The mullet go past this point every single day. Or here in San Diego Bay, you know what, I'm looking at all this surf. But behind me I see, I see Jack smelt jumping out of the water every day at five 30. That might clue you in on what's happening behind you. Mm-Hmm. . So maybe just take that 20 minutes, do a little assessment, do a little recon
Speaker 1 (01:00:51):
Fish. Don't jump. Just because they like exercise, by the way, . Yeah. That's usually,
Speaker 2 (01:00:55):
Usually
Speaker 1 (01:00:56):
If you see, wanna see that?
Speaker 2 (01:00:57):
Yeah. It's the same thing with the birds. The birds aren't flying for their health. No,
Speaker 1 (01:01:01):
Not at all. They're, I love it.
Speaker 2 (01:01:03):
If you see a turn here in Southern California, turns are big. I, I mean, I've seen elsewhere in the world too, but here turns are king. If I see a turn, make a u make make like a 180 in the sky. I know, I know Right? Where something's going, gonna be going down the turn might not be able to capitalize it on at that time. It may not even necessarily know what it's looking at. But when I see a turn that's flying one way, go, boop. I know.
Speaker 1 (01:01:32):
Yep. He just lets you know, like, oh, hey, there was something here. I can't get it, but you can. So, yep. Yeah. There's a reason why that mom, I
Speaker 2 (01:01:38):
See countless times
Speaker 1 (01:01:40):
.
Speaker 2 (01:01:41):
If you, if you and, and particularly in the Gulf of Mexico, if you're, if you arrive at the beach and you look down, you'll see where all the herons are all bunched up, all the herons and egrets. You'll see 'em all in one place.
Speaker 1 (01:01:54):
Yep. Fred hangs out for a reason. Fred knows where the fish are. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:01:58):
Yeah. Just take, I mean the, the first thing you do is you take a look. If I really don't know what I'm doing, I'll put a small live beta hook on something with a real hard shank. Something with a good thick shank. Like the, like the what, what is it must add 68 eighteens or whatever, something with a short shank, almost a circle bike size six or size four. And, and I'll, I'll just, you know, if I'm prospecting just a piece of shrimp on that, just a small piece of shrimp, just cast it around. You'd be surprised. You can catch bait that way you can catch eaters that way. You can catch indicator fish that way very easily. So, I mean, a little bit of prospecting often in order.
Speaker 1 (01:02:42):
Good, good advice right there for going a new one. Alright, so this one, , you're gonna have fun with this. How do you adjust your tactics for phishing when the bite isn't on fire?
Speaker 2 (01:02:53):
Scale down, scale back, look at different areas, change targets. You know, if you were told that, hey, the, the, the blue fish are eating diamond jigs down on the second bar this week and you show up and it's not happening. Yeah. You can keep casting the kingdom come, or you can look around and look for a different target. You're like, you know what, lemme put it on a fish finder rig. Lemme put on a blind man rig and a knocker rig. A high low, what whatever your go-to is for feeling around, bait it up with a couple pieces of shrimp. Use a little bit lighter weight than you might for anchoring it to the bottom. You know, so it moves around a bit. That way you've got a bait moving. You're, you're searching out
Speaker 1 (01:03:35):
Nice. Very,
Speaker 2 (01:03:36):
It's very simple. It, and, and to me, like I said yesterday, I went down to La Jolla. The, the water was black with surf grass. Eelgrass the giant kelp, California kelp, bull kelp was even in the mix. When you see that, well, well, you know, go, you know, let me throw the, let me throw a a hydro minnow. Let me go throw the flash minnow. Yeah. Good luck, dude. , you better change your targets. You better change your hook size. You better scale down Your hook. Your life is gonna be, is gonna be miserable and you're gonna turn around and leave. Buying it with what, eight or 10 fish yesterday, including two. I could have eaten.
Speaker 1 (01:04:14):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:04:15):
I mean, it's better than a stick to the eye. Yeah,
Speaker 1 (01:04:18):
Absolutely. And for those of who've never seen California kelp , she thick . She, she know,
Speaker 2 (01:04:26):
It's, it's literally the fastest growing organism on earth.
Speaker 1 (01:04:29):
It is so cold.
Speaker 2 (01:04:30):
The giant kelp grows faster than anything else on the planet. It can grow eight or 10 feet in a day. Something like that.
Speaker 1 (01:04:41):
Just Google it. Yeah, just look it up, you guys. It, it's a very impressive species and it's a very interesting, it's, it's such a great, it's a great hider too. I mean, if you can get through it, it's such a great habitat for fish. Oh yeah. Last, go ahead.
Speaker 2 (01:04:55):
I, I was gonna say, you can see, you know, if you skin dive here in Southern California, you'll see 60, 80, 90 food fish off of a single stringer that reaches the surface. Easy.
Speaker 1 (01:05:06):
Yeah. It's such good camo for 'em. It, and it's good for the environment. So it works out. Last question in this category, and then we'll move into the social media after one more paycheck for seasons. Seasons are always gonna play a factor. Summer in fall or summer and winter, hot high, you know, low colds always play a factor with fishing in SoCal. What have you noticed before the seasons?
Speaker 2 (01:05:27):
So for me, wintertime is big fish time. That's when the big bass, that's when the big surf perch, that's when some of the biggest species come out to play. Including including bat rays. Our bigger soup, fin sharks, they all approach during the winter. So winter is big fish time. So it's time to settle down, get your mind right, pick the corner or your lay or your break, whatever it is you're doing, and, and get your mind in the game. Present the baits. 'cause You might only get a couple of chances to hook a fish, but if you do, chances are good. It's gonna be a bass over 20 inches. It's gonna be the biggest surf tractor you've hooked this year. It's gonna be an opal lion. The two to four pound range, when usually most guys catch 'em at six ounces. That, that, that's the time.
Speaker 2 (01:06:11):
That's, that's the time when the surf perch, you're bulking up getting ready to give birth. So you're, you're ba you're shot at the biggest black surf birch walleye, surf birch Bart Surf Birch Redtail surf birch up north. Your best chance is during the winter on big fish during the summer. It's a numbers game. That's the time to drag out jigs, fast moving baits. That's when you're dragging out the jerk baits. That's when you're handling it. And you gotta be used to these long sessions on the water. You know? And sometimes, sometimes the bait's gonna cooperate, sometimes it's not. But summer's the time to put numbers on the bank. Pretty simple. Spring and fall. Those tradi, those transitional times, you know, you might have to pick some structure apart. You might have to change your targets. You might have to move to some, to a different style than you usually do. 'cause Those fish are gonna be in transition
Speaker 1 (01:07:05):
Pretty easy. Lots of traffic though. Traffic. And there's, there's fun traffic in the transition times though, from what you guys have. What I've heard in a couple episodes that you, you, you know, where you're at .
Speaker 2 (01:07:15):
I mean, so sometimes you gotta read between the lines a little bit. You know, it's no different from fishing in Florida or someplace else.
Speaker 1 (01:07:22):
Yeah, I mean, I hate our summer right now. It's, we're in a weird transition summer 'cause we're in a super hot one. So we're, we're dealing with a lot of the a lot of the creatures are going off deep. You know, you, you're in a better position to be on the pier and in the boats right now. You could still catch from the surface. It's just not as fun. But yeah, winter time it turns into the cold desert. And you just gotta, you just gotta adjust.
Speaker 2 (01:07:42):
Switch targets, switch targets, start targeting some micros, start targeting some mini pelagics. Start targeting, you know, you know what I mean? You know, guys are like, well, I'm not putting on a size 10 hook. Well, enjoy your blank
Speaker 1 (01:07:55):
.
Speaker 2 (01:07:55):
Enjoy the blank.
Speaker 1 (01:07:57):
You gotta be willing to, and like we started talking about in the beginning here, you can't, especially for us, you know, you can't walk to the beach in summer and be like, all right, I'm only targeting Pompano. You're gonna have a really bo really bad day. 'cause You know, this is not ideal. Pompano, you might catch one sure. But you're, it's not gonna be a day where you're gonna rake in six to 12. It's not gonna happen. And you just have to be under understanding that there's other stuff out there. We've got the jacks. If you throw metal, you're gonna probably catch a jack. You'll probably catch a blue Spanish. You never know. If you get on a lucky one, you might find something that came in a little crazy. You never know. But if you go with one fish in mind in your brain, and you only set the fish with one fish in your mind, it doesn't matter where you are, you're not gonna have as much fun and you're not going to have the amount of success you could have if you would adjust.
Speaker 2 (01:08:45):
Now. Now see, I would say that the Florida anglers are super lucky. Super lucky. You have a target you can chase that could peel drag 24 hours a day, seven days a week for 10 months of the year. I mean, maybe not during like the coldest days of February, march, right? Late late January, you have the sharks available to you.
Speaker 1 (01:09:07):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (01:09:07):
And, and I get it. You hate 'em. They're terrible. They're a nuisance. But that is an untapped resource of drag pulling, jumping craziness that you can tap into almost anytime. And, and, and keep in mind that like in large parts of the world, stingrays are a game fish. They're catch and relief fish. They, they really are. And I mean, you can hate on saltwater catfish or whatever, but all at the end of the day, all those saltwater catfish, you can peel 'em and fry 'em if you wanted to. Yes, you can. There's no problem. They don't taste terrible. There's nothing especially bad about 'em. I, I mean, you, you can hate it or you can embrace it and you can go out and lay a beet down. Hey, I caught five black dips today,
Speaker 1 (01:09:53):
,
Speaker 2 (01:09:55):
You know, I, you know what I mean? Absolutely. Yeah. I hooked a six foot, I hooked a six foot nurse shark and I unhooked it and wasted water today. Hey, you don't understand how blessed you are. You're so blessed that you have forgotten how blessed you are .
Speaker 1 (01:10:09):
See, that's why I'm fortunate for this. 'cause It's me. I just like fishing, so.
Speaker 2 (01:10:13):
Yeah, me too, man. It's, I don't mind catching some sergeant majors. I don't mind catching. What is that fish you have on there? That's like our rock RAs the slippery dick. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:10:22):
Yeah,
Speaker 2 (01:10:22):
The rat. Yeah. The most hated micro fish of all time. But you could catch 'em all day every day if you wanted to. Yeah, you can. I catch till till the cows come home.
Speaker 1 (01:10:33):
. Everybody's gotta find a way to complain about something though. Isn't that the truth?
Speaker 2 (01:10:39):
Well, I, I always, I always joke here about, oh, but that's not yellow tail, so you need to get the hell outta here.
Speaker 1 (01:10:45):
Speaker 2 (01:10:46):
Always joke about, because that, that's the attitude. Oh, it's just, it's yellow tail or nothing. Like, what's wrong with you? Dude, we got 170 species out here . And you're whining about one,
Speaker 1 (01:10:58):
One and only one. And that's what I want is one, eh, enjoy your
Speaker 2 (01:11:02):
One. That's, that's all that there is. Okay. I'm not some worthless scrub kook. Okay. You got that. You screwed kooks can go pound sand.
Speaker 1 (01:11:12):
Yep. Alright, well let's get this ba check and then we'll move. Whoops. We'll move into the fun parts here. We'll mock into the social media and closers.
Speaker 1 (01:11:26):
Ah, that was such a fun day. Every time I look at that bait check, it just brings me back to a happy place of great water and great times, man. That was a fun fish. Yeah, that was a real fun fish actually. All right. This final paycheck is being brought to you by Ninja tackle, ninja tackle va.com. You can get your hands on the old ninja daggers. You guys know I use 'em, I love 'em from the seven footer where I use it in the surf all the way to inshore. I've used it numerous different times, throws great great response all the way up to the 13 foot steer 13 foot size, lots of great things in with the rods. He's also got reels and rigs, bait, you name it, he's got it. And if you're into firearms and firearm accessories, ninja Tactical, if you need ar accessories, Glock parts and pieces, optics, those stuff, he's got it in there. So ninja tactical va.com. Great one stop shop. Mm-Hmm. . Yes it is . All right. So let's move into the social media side of this thing here. What made you wanna start into the social media game? I mean, you've got YouTube, you've got t TikTok, you, you've got it all.
Speaker 2 (01:12:22):
The only one I don't do is Instagram, just because I don't like the algorithm over there. But I, I do have a TikTok. I do have a YouTube and I do have a Twitter. So what I found over the years is that Twitter is really weather friendly. I'm out there in it all day every day. I work outside, live outside, play outside. So I get all kinds of time lapse stuff and weather related stuff, clouds, whatever I can find. Sunrise, sunsets. I post all that on Twitter 'cause it does real well. On TikTok, you'll see a, you'll see a mismatch of all kinds of nature related content. Could be mushrooms in a lawn or could be a thunderhead building over East County or, you know, fishing or just weird animals or kelp hold fest or whatever. I find when I'm out walking around, I'll post that on TikTok.
Speaker 2 (01:13:06):
And then YouTube's most, most, mostly phishing only. But you know, I might sprinkle some other stuff in there, like trapping stuff or other whatnot, scattered in there. And although I'd have a rumble, I haven't really posted over there, I put a halt on everything till they get their monetization all squared away over there. So, yeah. So for those of you who believe in the one A two, A three A you, you will, you will be able to find me on rumble sooner rather than later, I suspect. But I'm just waiting for them to settle down and find a nice calm even thing. But the origins of all this it's kind of a serious topic, I guess, but I found out I basically have uncontrollable blood pressure.
Speaker 1 (01:13:51):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (01:13:53):
So to be really high and they put me on medication, I go so low, I almost die.
Speaker 1 (01:13:58):
Holy crap, that's not good.
Speaker 2 (01:14:00):
So, you know, I, I'm a father of two, so I wanted my kids to be able to find at least some vestige of the old man out there somewhere, you know, just in case. And I, and I work a really dangerous job where can die every day and it's nuts. And although all that's gonna be changing, I think in the coming months for me, I might be a lot closer to where you are now than where I am now in coming months. So who knows how that'll work out. But I might be, I might be transitioning to a very different lifestyle than the one I have now very soon. So I, I wanted, I wanted to have a presence online so that my kids could remember some of their good times with me and, you know, just get some fatherly wisdom.
Speaker 2 (01:14:49):
That's one of the big reasons I've been such a contributor to fishy hour. And actually I'll be taking over this week on fishy hour. So if you want my hot take on the offshore, you can check me out over there on Wednesday at seven. Wednesday's at seven the next few weeks. Nice. I'll make sure that's linked. Yeah, fishy hour. Roman's a, Roman's a great dude, and we have a great time on there when I'm on. And, you know brand mostly does bay fishing for bay bass and sand bass and stuff. So, you know, if you're, if you're into that or if you're in our local community here, you're welcome to to join us over on Fish Hype. We'll give you a discord if you want to go to the Discord. For us, we we're a tight-knit group of dudes that come together, and lady, a few ladies too.
Speaker 2 (01:15:31):
We have a good time at cookouts and the Mad Max Pickle run where they launch from Mission Band come in via San Diego Bay on kayaks. So that's a whole, yeah, it's su yeah. Super fun stuff. We all kinds of events, barbecues, award shows, everything with them over there. So we, we, we have a great time. It's a great group of people and we're there for each other. So yeah, it's, this all kind of started a number of years back. I've had my YouTube channel a long time. I'm closing in on 2000 subscribers over there. It's been a long journey, but yeah, it's, it kind of started as a way for me to preserve a little something for my kids if they ever wanted to see their old man, you know, in case I just fall over my heart attack or tractor trailer retread gets me out on the freeway somewhere, sometime or whatever.
Speaker 2 (01:16:24):
So yeah, it kind of all started there. And you know, my buddy, my buddy Ben who talked to you he, he's, you know, he got me into TikTok. He's like, Hey, you're out there. You see nature all day every day. Why don't you, why don't you just start a TikTok and start posting all the footage you've already got? So I, I've been doing that. I'm, I'm, I I'm just into being outside really. Sounds like it. I, I, I mean weather. And I, I've always loved reptiles. I did professional an animal handling for seven or eight years as a young man. That's a whole different thing. I've been bit 13 times by better mistakes. I've, I've been around, I've seen a few things and you know, I've, I've done this, that, and the other. But you know, just kind of leaving something, something for the kids online for them to laugh at. You know, if the old man buys it somewhere someday. That's kind of how it all started.
Speaker 1 (01:17:20):
Well, hey kids, yeah. Save this video. Come back. You get to hear dad talk about it all. So now you know why. Now, you know, , what would you say has been one of the biggest lessons learned after running all your channels on social media, on of all these different outlets?
Speaker 2 (01:17:36):
If, if you want my advice to somebody starting out, this is what I would tell you. Drop short, perform content, drop lots of short form content, one every single freaking day if you can. 'cause It'll, it'll grow your listenership more than anything else. Now those people won't care about your long form videos. They won't tune in for your long form videos. But it's important to have that presence for the algorithm. That's what I would tell you. That's something you need to do, Mr. Demo.
Speaker 1 (01:18:01):
Yeah, I know. Something you need to
Speaker 2 (01:18:03):
Do. You need to start dropping short form content.
Speaker 1 (01:18:05):
I, I need to start doing video is what it is. And I've been avoiding it for the length of the channel. Now, as you can see, we're starting it. Hey, who knew ? Well,
Speaker 2 (01:18:13):
I'm telling you now, you live somewhere where you have those little green things in your yard. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:18:19):
Put 'em on TikTok, put 'em on YouTube shorts so that you can gain a following. 'cause It's real easy to get to that 4,000 hours, right? So you can get mo monetized. Well, I shouldn't say it's super easy, but most guys, most people who do long form content reach that 4,000 hours and 28, 28 days way before they approach the thousand subscribers. So the subscribers is what's gonna hold you back on YouTube. It's what's gonna keep you outta the algorithm on TikTok and Twitter too, from what I can tell. So drop short form content every single day across all platforms where you wanna be active. That's the first thing I can tell you. The second thing, don't worry about your quality at first. It's, it's volume over quality by a long mile for your, for you first starting out. And the reason I say this is very simple. Volume matters. You're dealing with a machine learning program that doesn't know you and doesn't care about you. It doesn't care how much quality you have. It doesn't care how great your cuts are. It doesn't care how amazing that B roll is. It doesn't care about any of that. It's looking at numbers.
Speaker 2 (01:19:31):
So drop your one long form content a week every week or two, or every couple of days if you can manage it. But make sure you're dropping short form content as often as possible. Certainly no more, no, no less often than every other day. You want, you want your channel to grow. You wanna grow your brand, find something interesting to say, say it every other day at the bare minimum.
Speaker 1 (01:19:54):
So many people have been not doing what you're saying. And especially the ones that are primarily YouTubers, they, oh, all right, I'm gonna step on some of here. They have a . Yeah, they're an idiot. They hear, they heard the part that you said about the shorts. 'cause That was that one that like, when shorts blew up, shorts was amazing. And then everybody gained all these things. They're like, well, nobody's watching my long form content. It's like, well, yeah, okay. They were into the short, you know, the poop, the poop scroll is the poop scroll. People want to be entertained, but you can't give up the long form content. You just, you can't, in sustainability in the long term, it will pay off dividends in the long run. But yeah, the short piece, huge. And yes, I have failed that, but I know that. But yes, you nailed it on the head with those pieces, and that's great advice, man. If anyone's not taking it, I think that's shortsighted.
Speaker 2 (01:20:47):
Well, I mean, keep in mind, I've been in the game a long time. I've watched how YouTube's changed over the years. Like I've had a channel for five or six years now. And, and really, and really it really was for my kids, or like for my family, or even myself to have a laugh at myself. And it wasn't really till I got more serious about short form content. I started growing my audience and I really started bumping my hours up and stuff. So, I mean, if there's just a few pieces of advice I give to somebody starting out post, often you might be like, oh, this clip is garbage and I'm only gonna get 500 views on it, or 200 views. Post it. Keep yourself in the machine. Keep yourself in the rotation. So you're being recommended to people on TikTok. I find it's really vital that I like as much crap as I can that's relevant to me. The more stuff I like, the more I'm in their feeds, the more I get followers, the more I get view time. Simple. It's, you're already doing it, right? You're already sitting there.
Speaker 1 (01:21:46):
Yep, it works. And it's
Speaker 2 (01:21:49):
True. I'm not drop some likes drop, drop some likes on your way by, on any content you wanna see more of in the future. Tos, algorithms really responsive. Like it'll start feeding back to you what you like real quick. Like within, within a couple of minutes it'll start kicking.
Speaker 1 (01:22:03):
Yeah. And on the accidental likes too,
Speaker 2 (01:22:06):
But don't worry. Yep. Accidental likes too. Believe me, I'm trying to exit a loop on the accidental like thing. Like I accidentally, like some videos, I had no views and all of a sudden I'm inundated with absolute garbage. Mm-Hmm. . But there's nothing for it. But to just move forward, start, start being a little more picky about the content you like, you know, like those fishing videos, the people hoisting fish, the weather, whatever it is you're into. And don't forget that, like across plat, if you're out there fishing and there's a thunderhead forming in front of you and it forms a water spout, that's tens of thousands of views on a platform like Twitter. Whereas YouTube might not care. So if you, if you're across platforms, find what works for you. That lizard bobbing its head on the rock next to the trailer at my wife's work got 7,000 views on TikTok
Speaker 1 (01:22:58):
.
Speaker 2 (01:22:59):
Yeah. This lizard was doing pushups and, and she didn't care that I was there and like the mail was there trying to protect her from me. I got thousands of views.
Speaker 1 (01:23:08):
Oh,
Speaker 2 (01:23:09):
Absolutely. Stupid. I mean, a couple of lizards next to a trailer on a piece of concrete,
Speaker 1 (01:23:15):
But it worked.
Speaker 2 (01:23:16):
. Yeah. Well, I mean, o okay, so just a quick plug to my buddy John at Cast and Spear. He grew from 9,000 to like 30, 40,000 over the course of like four or five months by dropping three shorts every single day on YouTube.
Speaker 1 (01:23:31):
Oh wow. That's a, that's a quick turn.
Speaker 2 (01:23:34):
Yeah, it was nuts. Like he turned it around, he went for it and he used, he absolutely maximized the leverage of shorts when shorts were rising to popularity. He's really good at that actually. And actually he's got some good content anyway, but I, the, the guy figured out, figured out the TikTok algorithm in like five seconds after he joined, and he is got hundreds of thousands of followers there.
Speaker 1 (01:23:57):
,
Speaker 2 (01:23:58):
I'm not kidding.
Speaker 1 (01:23:59):
Oh, see, those are the ones that are always fun. It was kinda like that salt squash over here. He has been brilliant in that game. And he, he's mentioned a lot of the same things when it comes to shorts and the algorithms. But yeah, seeing somebody blow up very quickly outta that is, it's impressive. It really is. And it's just the system will move things through if you if you feed it, it'll feed you.
Speaker 2 (01:24:23):
Yeah. And it's wild because there's a lot of power in just staying in the algorithm. Even if you post something, it only gets a hundred views. You're like, well that was a fail. I'm not gonna do that. Don't, because that could turn around, that could help you keep you in the algorithm. So your next video gets three to 5,000 very easily. Yeah. My, my number one video is a fish the size of my hand. That was brilliant blue that I threw off of a break wall
Speaker 1 (01:24:50):
,
Speaker 2 (01:24:50):
30,000 views.
Speaker 1 (01:24:53):
That's a win. That's a super win right there.
Speaker 2 (01:24:56):
Yeah. I mean, it took me 10 seconds to make that video, but I couldn't have predicted that it would do that. But it took me 10 seconds to make that video.
Speaker 1 (01:25:03):
It's always that one too, isn't it? It's the one video you're like, nah, that's not gonna do anything. Holy crap. What the hell?
Speaker 2 (01:25:09):
And, and you know what? So, so we have three sea chubs here in Southern California. We have the opal eye, the half moon and the zebra Purge Oli are kind of viewed as a nuisance fish, but I love eating them. So to, to me opal eye is straight money, but for some reason my Sea Chubb videos get two to three times what any of my game fish videos get. And I don't know why. So just because you're like, oh, this is a crap fish who caress that might be 30,000 views you just slept on that you threw back for the fish the size of your hand that had a nice blue stripe down the back. I'm, I'm, I'm just saying,
Speaker 1 (01:25:48):
Just saying
Speaker 2 (01:25:50):
, if, if, if, if the fish is there in your hand and you have a phone in your other hand, how long does it take you to say, Hey look, it's a, I don't know what would be down there by you, A sergeant. Look, it's a sergeant major or a slippery slippery dick or . Oh, this hard dead catfish is venomous. Look at this, this spine right here that you throw it back in the water. That could be 10,000 views. You never know.
Speaker 1 (01:26:12):
Yeah, that's true. Well, let me get you these last questions and get you outta here for the night and we'll hit into the closing section. So the first one is, is you, you kind of already did, but I'm gonna do it anyway. What knowledge would you give to a brand new angler starting out in the surf game?
Speaker 2 (01:26:28):
Start out small. Don't worry about the long rods. Don't worry about the big reels. Don't worry about on the braid backing. Don't worry about casting a hundred yards. Don't worry about that. Start out small. Get, get some smaller hooks. Get some chunks of shrimp, squid muscle. Go shrimp, sand flea. What as you would call them, we would call them man, I'm drawing a blank here. Sand crabs is what we call sand crab. Yeah, yeah. Sand crab. And learn. Just, just just do some basic research on the common rigs used where you are now. The rigs where you are are probably used because they work. I, I mean, I hate to tell you this, but people usually don't use rigs that don't work. What I do is a little specialized with the whole spider hitch thing. I get it. I, I find it to be a very versatile rig where I can hang my bait very precisely off bottom a couple inches.
Speaker 2 (01:27:18):
So that's why I do that. It's very snag resistant. But if you're fishing ocean beach, maybe a fish finder or Carolina, even a cork, I mean to me, corks are very underutilized and beach fishing down there, they create a tremendous amount of service commotion for fish to come check out that. And a small bucktail tip of shrimp will get you an awful lot of species in the surf down there. Florida, Carolinas outer banks. And it's not a rig ICUs used very often. So take it for what it's worth. I'm always wary of the guys that use the same exact set of baits. 'cause I feel like they're trying to sell you that lucky craft, that gold minow, that whatever they're trying to sell you on a rig, they're trying to sell you on a bait. For new anglers, it can be really confusing. They go down to the tackle shop, they get some big round reel, they fill it to the rim with braid and they wonder why they struggle.
Speaker 2 (01:28:12):
Just find some gear you're comfortable with in your hand. Learn to do a reasonable cast. You don't need to cast 125 when you're starting out. Focus on structure. That'll help a lot. You know, if you fish the beach right next to the jetty, there's always fish there always. It doesn't matter if you're in California, it doesn't matter if you're in Florida. It doesn't matter if you're in Panama. Those areas will always hold fish. So if you use a smaller hook piece of shrimp, you know, I I'd say your odds are really good at catching fish, regardless of what your rig is like.
Speaker 2 (01:28:46):
Focus on those basics. Look where the wave starts, starts breaking first. Watch where it breaks. Last look for dark water. Look for light water. 'cause That'll tell you what's going on in front of you. Because know, particularly in surf and cliff fishing, cliff fishing's a little more dynamic than surf fishing. But it's the same set of principles you're looking for Somewhere something can either ambush or push a bait up against or where a bait gets washed off and dropped to 'em. That's what you're looking for. It's, and none of this is complicated. This doesn't have to be difficult. You know, structure can be liquid, it can be hard. You're looking for anything different when you first start out. Be mobile, be flexible. You know what you're getting. You're getting the bait nibbled off scale down to, so to a size 10 and catch the bait thief.
Speaker 2 (01:29:31):
See what, see what you have going on. You don't have anything to lose. What's the, what's the worst possible outcome you have at the end of the day? You have, you have some dinner on the plate, and most any fish from anywhere in the world you are is edible. Okay? I'm sorry, I, I know that there's trash fish and all this other. It's bull. Okay, it's bull. The rock RAs here are just as edible as the slippery dick in Florida. Just as edible y you know? Yeah. There are some exceptions like moray eel. Some places carry Sigma Terra, you know, Barracuda might have Sigma Terra. Some places, if you're worried about a fish making you sick, pick a smaller one. That three quarter to two pound class of fish perfectly edible. 99.999% of the time. I don't give, i, I don't care what it is. I don't care what part of the world you're in, you catch a fish that weighs less than two pounds. It's a chance of having Aria is near zero. simple. Can't worry about that. But simple, dial it back. You know, use a smaller hook. If you have to use a lighter weight, you know that eight ounce weight, those fish might be dropping that bait before that you ever feel there, there. Whereas a half ounce weight that you can cast, you know, a third as far, they might pick it up and not even know it's there. And you might hook eight fish out of 10.
Speaker 1 (01:30:53):
Ooh, that's a good one.
Speaker 2 (01:30:55):
I mean, I'm just saying it just, just being obvious.
Speaker 1 (01:30:59):
No, that's but that, see that the funny part is, is that obvious not a lot of people will fall. And I mean this in the best way. 'cause You guys, anybody, you guys watch the show. You know what I use, you know, my normal setups. But on that same one, somebody starting out, like I made the mistake when I came down here, I instantly grabbed the four ounce weight. I instantly grabbed the double dropper and with the big beads and all these things because it's what I'd heard. It's what I'd seen. I didn't spend the extra time to ask more questions. I was too excited. I was like, I'm gonna go catch fish . Oh, I'm gonna do this. And sure enough, I got lucky, but that's only because a hurricane had just come through, screwed the whole structure up. And I caught a red drum. I'm the weirdest way. And I was like, all right, cool. I guess I can do this all day. Thankfully I've learned my lessons and I've become a little bit better of an angler and I'm a little bit smarter. But when you're excited, it's easy to make those mistakes take you, make the greatest point. Take your time, start off on that and dial it back if you have to. It's not a problem to dial back. It can be a pain in the dick to go up. It's a little easier to go down.
Speaker 2 (01:31:55):
Yeah. I mean, I mean, light lighter leaders loop knots, smaller hooks, lighter weights, lighter gear. You might be like, those West Coast guys don't know what they're talking about when they use those, those stupid ss s t rods, some of the most successful anglers I know fish a sand crab on a blind man rig or a knocker or a Carolina, and they fish on a nine foot s s t and they use four pound test and they can't use corvino as long as they're arm. They give them absolute workout. If you wanna know what a corino iss like imagine a white fish times five that can take a hundred yard runs.
Speaker 1 (01:32:33):
It's a whiting on steroids. That's pretty much one of the best ways. Somebody explained it to me, I was like, oh, all right. I want one
Speaker 2 (01:32:40):
Cor Corbin are nuts. And they're very line shy. They're very rig shy. If they see anything off, they won't buy it. They just won't. I know guys that use 64 ounce, one 64th ounce sliding weights on a knocker rig with a sand crab to just bury the front of the sand crab in the sand. And they watch these massive Corina come up behind and eat it, and then they're in for the ride.
Speaker 1 (01:33:08):
So Ben up at American Sea Fishing, he's north of you. He's up by, I think he's Dana Point. He was talking about that with the corinas and especially, you know, I was like, they are brilliant. They are smart. They watch, they know what to look for. They're very finicky. They, they pay attention to what's out there. So yeah, when you're talking about the, the going down to four pound people will be like, oh, what the hell again? Four pounds in the water is not four pounds on the shore. It is all about drag manipulation and being smart thrust versus ratio. Hmm. You don't have to get crazy with it. . But yeah, that was, that was fun listening from Ben on that.
Speaker 2 (01:33:50):
I, I mean, I, I I just, I believe in the kiss principle. If you don't know what's going on in size six hook and then we'll wait less than an ounce and a piece of shrimp on there and salt that shrimp, cut it, cut the shrimp into chunks and salt it if you're having problems with bait thieves.
Speaker 1 (01:34:05):
Yep.
Speaker 2 (01:34:06):
I mean, it it's pretty, it's pretty, pretty self-explanatory. Pretty easy.
Speaker 1 (01:34:10):
. Well, last question for you, and we'll get you outta here. What's next for you, man?
Speaker 2 (01:34:16):
Well, serious changes are coming to my life. So I think that my time here in SoCal is beginning to expire. Whether I end up in Arkansas or Florida remains to be seen. But no matter where I'm at, I can almost guarantee you that I will figure out a way to put that magical three quarter pound to two pound fish in a frying pan and get it cooked.
Speaker 1 (01:34:40):
That's real.
Speaker 2 (01:34:42):
It, it's my style. It's what I do. You know, I do lots of catch and release and stuff and micro fishing too, but it won't be very long, I think to have some fish in a frying pan laying in a bath of either butter or bacon fat. And whether it's breaded or not, or, you know, there's some other factors there. Whether I serve it over potatoes, rice or corn . I strongly suspect that wherever I, where whatever happens to me from this point forward, I'll end up with some fish taking a bath and some hot oil and hot animal fat, I should say . And I imagine I'll be eating that.
Speaker 1 (01:35:22):
Well, we look forward to watching it 'cause I know I definitely will and it'll be fun. But Coach man, you've been great, brother. I appreciate you. Thanks for coming on the show. Thanks for sharing all this knowledge. It's been an absolute blast, man. It really has.
Speaker 2 (01:35:34):
Well, let me know if you ever wanna have me on or you got something specific for me or, you know, or you know, hey, you know, people in the comment section, drop some stuff, you know, if you wanna see me on, you know, drop a comment, you know, I'm happy to come on having to spend some time. If you're a rookie or you know, hey, we're gonna go go to Lake at the Ozarks, what do I do? I got you, bro. I got you
Speaker 1 (01:35:56):
.
Speaker 2 (01:35:58):
So, I mean, I I, I fished it all at one time or another, more or less, you know, minus a few things like commercial fishing halibut in Alaska didn't do that, but I mean, hey, I caught snake mackerel in the Indian Ocean on a commercial rig. So I, I've seen a few things in my time and I might have some insight that'll help you. I might not, but I might have some insight that'll help you. So, hit me up on my channel. Hit me up, hit me up over here. I'm finding demo. I, I mean, hey, look forward to hearing from you. Happy to talk again anytime. This was awesome. You let me know, brother.
Speaker 1 (01:36:27):
Oh, it'll happen. It's definitely happening. . All right, man, we'll talk to you soon.
Speaker 2 (01:36:33):
Peace my dude
Speaker 1 (01:36:34):
Later. All right, everybody, I hope you had as much fun as I did. I know. I mean, on video, it's cool you get to see me smiling and I know you guys didn't normally see me do video as much, but it is happening more and more and I am glad that I got to do it this way. Coach is great. Lots of fun stuff. All the social media stuff will be linked back on finding demo most searching.com on the website, but it'll also be on the transistor website. You'll be able to get that. We'll have all the links hyperlinked back. Look 'em up. W e r ft.tv. Easy way to find 'em that way. But again, links will be all set. If you got questions for him. Hey, he just told you how to get in touch with him, not hard, right? Lots of good stuff. Thanks for sticking around. It's been awesome. Always love seeing you guys. I'm thankful every week you're here. If this helped you, don't forget to share it out to somebody you never know. You might've just made their fishing adventure a whole lot easier. You've been listening to finding DMO Surf Fishing. I'm out.