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Braden Heidner Lowe and Associates was formed with the ability and passion to offer clients an unsurpassed level of government relations and association management services. Tune in to our podcasts to find out what is happening in your local political arena, how you can increase association involvement, how to hone in on good professional and personal skills, and more!
BHL_Ep33_TonyMigliore_p1
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Scott Heidner: [00:00:00] Welcome listeners to the BHL podcast. I'm your host, Scott Heidner, and it is my honor and privilege today to be here with Mr. Tony Migliore. We'll get into, more about who he is in a moment, but he is, a legend in the music industry. If you don't know his name, you have certainly heard his work. Almost certainly have heard his work somewhere.
And we are recording thanks to the gracious hosting of Cigar Bar Especial in Nashville, Tennessee. If you are into that kind of thing, meaning cigars, it is the place to come in Tennessee, and we're grateful for them hosting us here. Well, Tony, thanks for making time to come down and join the BHL Podcast.
Tony Migliore: Well, thanks for having me. I'm honored.
Scott Heidner: Well, the Honor is ours. It is a [00:01:00] thrill to get to pull the curtain back in any industry, but particularly in the arts, whether it's film or theater or music.
Mm-hmm. You know, there's that whole regiment of people that help bring that to life and are so instrumental in it, but rarely are out in front of the camera or have their name out there. And you are part of that regiment, but your part is just mind blowing in its expanse and its breadth.
But we'll get to that Okay. As we go through the podcast. Alright. And listeners, I'm tempted to give you a sprinkling now of the people he's played with and what he's done, but instead, I think we're gonna unveil it as we go chronologically. Take us back, where'd you grow up? What was your home like?
What'd your parents do? And then we'll skip right into the music.
Tony Migliore: Okay. My, my home life, I grew up outside of New York City in a little town called Hastings on the Hudson. My parents were not musical, but they loved music, mostly opera and classical music. My dad was a common laborer and he had no, artistic abilities or [00:02:00] anything like that, but he had an appreciation for music.
My mom was a seamstress. And, uh, they didn't make much money, but somehow they managed to send me for piano lessons and started doing that when I was, started piano lessons when I was five.
Scott Heidner: Yeah, it's a good segue. The first thing I was gonna bring up, so a lot of our listeners will be familiar with Julliard School of the Arts or Fine Arts or whatever the official title is.
And I think most of us know it's extremely difficult to get into Julliard, but the truly elite, you know, at age 18 or 19 or whatever, get accepted and go, but you started doing preparatory classes at Julliard at age eight. Eight. So a child
Tony Migliore: prodigy, truly, uh, I, they, they might have said that, but I, I, you know, I dunno.
Uh, I took an [00:03:00] audition when I was eight and they accepted me, in the preparatory department, which meant every Saturday my mom would take me to New York and we'd, go for piano lessons and theory classes and composition, things like that. I had already had a, a base, 'cause I started lessons when I was five.
They saw something in, in me and accepted me. And I spent the next however many years through high school going pretty much every Saturday, which meant that I never got to go to the high school football games. I never had to any, any of those, encounters pretty much. And even though I did play clarinet in the high school band and orchestra,
Scott Heidner: It could be the subject of its own podcast, but it, it is the part of the life of the, the true a-list musician that people don't think of is it's extraordinary.
How many of you, a big part of the traditional childhood just [00:04:00] didn't happen, right? Because of the Right, the rabid attention of the music.
Tony Migliore: The other kids were out playing ball and I was inside practicing.
Scott Heidner: Yeah. And at this time, both in terms of what you studied and in terms of your personal taste, mostly classical at that point?
Yes. Yeah. So get through high school. Finally end the 10 year sojourn of, uh, preparatory classes at Julliard. What comes next?
Tony Migliore: Well, I went to the Eastman School of Music for my, undergraduate, which was in Rochester, New York. Eastman and Julliard were kind of competitive as to which one was better than the other, but they were both at the very top of the game.
I spent four years in Rochester. I hated the weather, but I learned a lot there. It was a great place to study. Early on I realized that, I was a big fish in a little pond when I was growing up. And when I got there [00:05:00] to Eastman, I realized that there were so many other really good pianists in my class alone.
Probably about 40 piano majors in my class, and half of 'em as good as me, the other half better. And so I kind of thought about that. How many of these folks are gonna be concertizing for their careers? Mm-hmm. The most, most of them will be teaching somewhere in a college or in a high school or something.
But, uh, how many of 'em are really gonna have concert careers? And as you know, you can count 'em on two hands. So my focus shifted to jazz and pop music while I was there. And my teacher, who was one of my mentors, was a good friend of Oscar Peterson, the great jazz pianist from [00:06:00] Toronto. And, I got to meet.
Oscar through him. And it was enlightening because I, I, he was, his, his name was CIO Forni. And, he was strictly a classical player himself, but he had an appreciation and he saw that my interests were in that more toward the jazz and pop music. So he pushed me toward that, even though I still had to do the classical stuff, of course, in order to get through the school.
He encouraged me and never once said, no, you shouldn't do that. He said, if that's what your passion is, then you should do it. You should go for it. So I did. And, after graduation, I was accepted into, north Texas state for, the jazz department.
Scott Heidner: Can I interrupt you? For sure. Just one second.
What about your time, and you just touched on this briefly, but your time at Eastman, [00:07:00] also active outside of the classroom doing gigs at that point?
Tony Migliore: Yes. Yes. Playing gigs with, society vans and sometimes, uh, The name big bands would come through town, like the Tommy Dorsey Band and the Sammy Kay and folks like that.
And I'd get to work with them, on a per night basis. Nothing steady, but it was fun.
Scott Heidner: And one of the terms you just used that I think, listeners with gray hair, like you and me will know, but others may not.
Tony Migliore: The folks with money would go to these clubs and listen to these artists and, and big bands.
The, Glen Miller Band and the Dorsey bands and all the, all those groups. And then they would go out on the road. But that was, uh, they, they played basically for society dancing. They'd go into an auto big auditorium with a stage and the floor would be emptied out. More recently for those a [00:08:00] little younger, they might recognize Lawrence Welk.
He was the same type of thing. He started out as a dance band. And then, of course he became very famous through his TV show. Yeah.
Scott Heidner: About Eastman. Before we move on from there. So one of the amazing things in the world of music to me at least, and I think to most people, is how prolific successes run into each other.
Before they are successes. And it might make some sense that you would do that at Eastman, which is a school intended for music, but it happens in the most serendipitous ways. Yes. It's just crazy how often, but, you probably had several classmates at Eastman that went on to be successful, but one of the greatest drummers to ever grace recorded music was your classmate.
And that was Steve Gad, Mr. Steve Gad, or as, uh, as Kevin and our Nashville buddies say in Gad. We [00:09:00] trust, if listeners don't know Steve Gad, maybe his most famous touring gig is James Taylor, but he's played with Frank Sinatra and I mean, everybody you can What's that? Steely Dan. Steely Dan. Yeah. We've got both Simon, Tony and I are consulting the peanut gallery.
We've got our friend Kevin Key here with us who's a walking encyclopedia. Yeah, just a, an endless list of people. Anyway. Yeah. So Steve Gabb is your classmate when you were mm-hmm. 19, 20 years old.
Tony Migliore: We used to play local gigs with, one of the society bands there and played for some weddings and bar mitzvahs, things like that.
Scott Heidner: And that's just unimaginable to me to think about, you know, looking back. That, you know, you and Steve Gad probably loaded the same grungy gear in an old beat up car. Yeah. And played the same modest paying gigs. Mm-hmm. You know, to look where you both are now. It's kind crazy. Okay. Well that's enough about Eastman.
I had cut you off. You were just about to take us, and this is an interesting story, [00:10:00] both from a musical and a non-musical standpoint. What came next?
Tony Migliore: Well, I was gonna go to graduate school and I applied at, north Texas State, which has a great jazz department. I got accepted. So in the fall I loaded up my car and drove down to, to Texas and, found an apartment a couple of days later called my folks to let 'em know I was there and settled in.
And my mom said, you gotta come back. I said, what's going on? You got your notice? Uncle Sam came calling. He had other plans for me. This is 19 60, 66. I had graduated in May of 66, and this was now, September. So, uh, loaded the car back up, drove back up to New York and started taking some auditions in Washington for the special bands in the service wound up in the band at West Point, which was not to be confused with being a cadet [00:11:00] because I.
In addition to being a college, it was also, a military base, and they have corps engineers, they have mps, they have other, everything you'd find on a military base, pretty much. And they had a band, which was a great band because there were a lot of wonderful players. This was the height of the, Vietnam War in 66.
Our first oboe player had been drafted from the Metropolitan Opera. Oh, wow. So who had that caliber of players in, in the orchestra now as a, I mean in the band, excuse me. And of course it was also a marching band, but you can't carry a piano in a marching band. So for, for a short while, they had me playing piccolo.
'Cause I had a knowledge of the, woodwind instruments. 'cause I had played clarinet for many years. So I played piccolo for about two months, and then they put me into the, uh, music library. And, [00:12:00] uh, we basically passed out music and made, corrections to some of the music.
Sometimes had to, had to cut and paste and tape other parts together. That was kind of the general job of the band librarians. And there were six of us. Which was overkill, but that was, okay.
Scott Heidner: So tell listeners if you would, and I'm gonna give away what I think is the moral of the story, and then I'll let you tell the story itself.
But you know that old axiom in life that you only get what you ask for. Mm-hmm. You, you never get anywhere unless you ask and you have to advocate for yourself, all those type of things. Right. Tell listeners, when you approached the army and wanted to be in the band and your first pass was simply, and they basically said, go pound sand.
We've got lots of piano players. Exactly.
Tony Migliore: The clerk that I was talking to said, well, we've got plenty of piano players we don't need anymore. [00:13:00] And I found out later that he was one of them.
Scott Heidner: Oh, you never told me that.
Tony Migliore: But, uh, uh, I, you know, I started to walk away and I turned back around. I said, but I play other styles.
I play jazz and pop music. And, and he said, oh, that makes a difference. Wait here. So he went and brought an officer out and, and, uh, he said, well, let's go upstairs and have an audition. And my audition was not what I thought it was going to be. We got up there and he said, do you know Misty?
I said, yeah. He said, play something. I said, any particular key? He said, no, you just play it. I played about eight or 16 bars of Misty and he said, how about, satin Doll? And, are your younger listeners are, are gonna know these songs, unfortunately? Yep. But hopefully they're gonna go look them [00:14:00] up after they hearing this.
And I said, do you want the intro on that or just, just the, he said, whatever you wanna do. So I played, I played the intro to Satin Doll, and that's all I got through. And he said, okay, let's go downstairs. That was my, that was my audition.
Scott Heidner: But if you had not had the thought and the play, you know, jazz and other styles of piano, you know, their initial answer was no.
And it might've changed the fate of your whole trajectory. You know, I wouldn't call it it,
Tony Migliore: moxie I would call it fear because I was about to be drafted and sent to Vietnam with a gun in my hand. Yeah. And if I could avoid that at any cost, you know, not, not that I was unwilling to serve because I'm, I'm glad I did, but I was able to serve here in the States in a different capacity.
Scott Heidner: So was it, I can't remember, Tony, you've told me before, but was it during your time in the service or after that you, got your exposure and [00:15:00] started to do work on Broadway.
Tony Migliore: Friend whose father was a contractor in New York. He contracted orchestras for various things, and he also contracted for Broadway and off Broadway.
And so my friend brought me in the last show I did was, a little show called O Calcutta with the original cast off Broadway, a place called the Eden Theater, which back in the, back in the twenties and thirties was called the Minsky's Theater, which was quite famous back then. the show was quite controversial.
I was just gonna say, got raided a few times, share with listeners,
but, but it, it was a fun show to do. Um,
Scott Heidner: are you willing to share specifically what made it, uh,
Tony Migliore: well, for those that don't know, it was the very first live nude show on Broadway. All the, all the actors on stage at one point [00:16:00] or another were completely naked. And, uh, you know, you could see everything.
And, uh, we, uh. So, but we, we were a four piece orchestra and we were actually not under the stage. We were in front of the stage at just a slightly lower level, but we had to have contact with the stage so that they could take cues from us. 'cause we did not have a conductor. We had a leader of course, but not a conductor.
So we all took our cues from the stage and they took theirs from what we were doing and, and we were all singing and playing different instruments. There were three keyboard players and a drummer. That was the whole orchestra. So I did that for about six months before I got out of the army and eventually after about another six months after that, worked my way to Nashville.
Scott Heidner: So, and that is probably the good segue point I wanted to give, spend some [00:17:00] time in this space to give listeners an appreciation. Some listeners may have been wondering, well, Scott, if you're in Nashville and, you know, Tony's part of the circle of Nashville, when do we get there? Because Julliard and Eastman and Classical and Jazz and Broadway, you know, is not that.
But I wanted listeners to know how diverse your exposure and your opportunities were, because there was probably. As we've discussed, you know, living to be made in that genre as well, if that is what you had chosen to pursue. True. But you, I'm gonna, I've asked you this question off microphone, but now I'm gonna ask it of you on microphone.
It would be logical for folks to wonder, in light of that background, all the classical training and the love of classical music mm-hmm. The love of jazz, the exposure to Broadway. I mean, you basically have a lifetime, both personally and professionally playing doggone near everything but [00:18:00] country music
Tony Migliore: at that point.
Yes. At that point.
Scott Heidner: Mm-hmm. So how does a young man get in his mind at that point?
Tony Migliore: Hmm.
Scott Heidner: What's my next step? Walk us through how that comes about.
Tony Migliore: While I was in the army, a friend of mine that I'd gone to school with at Eastman, who had moved to Nashville, came up there for a, a mutual friend's wedding and stayed with us.
And, and he said to me, man, you need to move to Nashville. I said, Nashville, what's there? Do they have sidewalks? Do they wear shoes? I mean, I was young and dumb. Okay. And, uh, he said, no, no, it's a thriving music business there. I said, I had no idea. He said, there's so much recording going on,
there's a lot of road work and there were a lot of clubs, which at that time, not as many clubs as we have now, because the town has grown exponentially, this was [00:19:00] 1968 when he broached the subject with me. And I still had another year left in the Army to think about it. So I said, well, we'll see, we'll see.
I don't know. And so after I got out of the Army, I, I had a short, um, a four month, four month stint at a hotel in Florida that I had contracted to do. And, so I thought, well, do we go to Nashville or what? So I thought, let's give it six months, let's see what happens. So we moved to Nashville and, gave it six months, and here we are 50, 55 years later.
Wow. And it's, you know, it's been a wonderful life. It's been a wonderful career. Nothing's perfect. So it had its ups and downs,
Scott Heidner: but when you came to town, you've shared with me previously that. You know, those first months where you're trying to become known income [00:20:00] is hard to come by. Yes.
That, even then, even when you lived in Nashville, when you would play out live, it was more of the society music Exactly the same. Exactly. It was still the bread and butter while you were getting your g started while we were trying,
Tony Migliore: while I was trying to break into the session world. Yes. Yeah. So I started a little trio, with a drummer friend, bass player friend, and, and lo and behold, we started getting work over on the, on the rich side of town, let's put it that way, where, uh, you know, the folks had a lot of parties and, we got to know one or two of the caterers and they would recommend us.
We got very busy doing that. Busy to the point where, I won't say burnout, but it got close to that. But as our session careers were getting stronger, we kind of let the, society trio kind of wane. So all three of us actually became fairly successful [00:21:00] session players.
One of them was a great songwriter as well, and, had a wonderful career as a songwriter here in town.
Scott Heidner: So I want to capture your career in three chapters. I want to talk about your studio time. Okay. As a studio musician. Then I'll hold back. I'm tempted to just blurt it out and tell listeners a couple of the big names that you've toured with for so long.
But I'm gonna wait, I want to talk about that second and then close down, with the part of your story, Tony, that honestly I don't know a whole lot about, which is more the business side producing, artist management, all, all of those things. But for now, let's talk about the studio. 'cause that's where you started.
That was the first, outside of the playing out live with the society gigs, which really helped sustain your efforts,
Tony Migliore: right? That sustained, that kept the rent paid. Yeah. While we were trying to get into the session
Scott Heidner: business. So you get into the sessions and I'm gonna ask you a question. We're gonna get a lot of names that might not [00:22:00] mean much to some of our listeners.
But again, my hope is that this will be one of several times our listeners might go, huh, I'm gonna go look that up. And I think they'll be amazed what they find. Who were the powerhouse session musicians when you came to town? They were
Tony Migliore: known as the A team. And they were people such as Grady Martin, Bob Moore, buddy Harmon, Harold Bradley, Pete Wade, Billy Sanford, bass players.
Uh, um. Junior Husky, some of the other names escaped me, but yeah, that was basically the core and my favorite piano player. Argus Pig Robbins. Yeah. Amen. And, uh, those were, those were some of the guys that I slowly got to know, got to know them better after I was thrown into a session [00:23:00] with them, with Owen Bradley producing, and I was scared to death 'cause I'd heard these guys' names and I, I heard that, a couple of them could be difficult.
Let's put it at that. And, uh, diplomatically stated, yes. And I got in there and I thought, I better do a good job if I want to survive. And it turned out well, it turned out okay and, got to be friends with Owen Bradley after that because he started out as a society piano player just like I did.
Scott Heidner: And I think, let's give listeners a little bit of background here.
It's hard to imagine this context today, but back at that time, the producers in Nashville were just about all powerful. Yes. I mean, they were, and you can correct this Tony, if this isn't right, but by and large, you probably had the big four, Owen Bradley, Harold Bradley, Chad Atkins, and Billy Cheryl. Is that.
Loosely that that's pretty, yeah, that's [00:24:00] pretty much it. And if for music lovers, I mean, those names are, are just enormous. They're iconic names. And, and we'll get to this, but you played extensively for three of the four, which is just amazing. Well, let's actually, let me ask you one more question before we get into a list of artists and the songs you played on.
So, for listeners, Nashville in the studio or, or live for that matter, has a system they call the Nashville Numbers. Yes. And it looks like math, but it's actually music. Mm-hmm. Uh, if you look at a chart here, there, it's basically all numbers with some other nomenclature on there. The system was unique to Nashville, but if share, if you would, Tony, to the extent you can dumb it down for us, lay people, you had to speak really slowly and use hand gestures to me to make me get it.
But you found when you came here, even though you hadn't technically worked with the Nashville Numbers system, it was,
Tony Migliore: I kind of [00:25:00] knew it already.
Scott Heidner: Yeah. Tell us about that.
Tony Migliore: Well, in the classical world when you, when you're studying theory and harmony and things like that, they work with, numbers, but it's everything's Roman numerals.
And, for instance, a a 1 6 4 chord would be. The root of the scale. And the six four means which note is in the base and which note is on top? The Nashville system didn't use Roman numerals because it's much easier to write numbers as we know them faster. So you can write, write a chart on the fly while someone is playing it on his guitar or something.
Scott Heidner: Yeah.
Tony Migliore: So it's basically the same thing except, in the national system, everything is major chords unless otherwise specified. Whereas with the traditional figure bass as it's called, it follows the notes of the scale, the chord based on the root or the one is a major chord.
The chord based on the two is a [00:26:00] minor chord because of the notes in the scale and on up. But in the Nashville system, everything's major unless you specify otherwise.
Scott Heidner: Well, listeners, if that sounds confusing, take heart. I'm sorry. He had to get out a, a graph paper and a, and a Crayola crown to help walk me through it when we talked about it before.
Well, let's move on. I could ask you just a thousand questions about playing with those studio guys because I mean, they are, the heart and soul and the history of Nashville, they're, they're just unbelievable
Tony Migliore: even today, even though most of 'em are gone.
Scott Heidner: We still hear their parts every day. You still hear,
Tony Migliore: you still hear their music every day somewhere.
Yeah. Yeah. It's amazing.
Scott Heidner: But let's talk about some of the people that you have either recorded tracks for or done shows with and, okay. Listeners, Tony and all his modesty has been very specific about, you know, some of these, he worked with a lot. Some of them may have just been one [00:27:00] gig out somewhere.
Mm-hmm. But, I'm just gonna read the whole list that I have, which isn't even a part of it. And this would be a good time for you to get some popcorn if you're a listener. 'cause this is crazy. Boots Randolph Les Paul as in the guy that has a guitar named after him. Mm-hmm. Steve Warner, Doug Kershaw.
Charlie McCoy, Shania Twain, Roy Clark, Don Everly, Hank Thompson, Dale Reeves, Ray Price, Barbara Mandrell, Frank Sinatra Jr. Nancy Sinatra, TG Shepherd, ed Bruce, Mickey Gilley, Freddie Hart, Jack Green, Roy Acuff, Lynn Anderson, Garth Brooks, Jim Ed Brown, Glenn Campbell, Sonny Curtis, Jimmy Dean, Joe Diffy, Bobby Goldsboro, the greatest artist of all time.
Merle Haggard. Tom t Hall, Alan Jackson, George Jones, the Jordanaires. Brenda Lee, Delbert. McClinton. Ann Murray, Minnie Pearl. Marty Robbins, Johnny Rodriguez, Willie Nelson, Mel Tillis, BJ Thomas, far and young. Tammy Wynette. A little guy you may or may not have [00:28:00] heard of, named Elvis Presley, Carl Perkins, Johnny Cash.
Rex Allen Jr. Hank Williams, Jr. Slim Whitman. Tom Jones, who still may make it out in Vegas someday if he keeps, keeps working at it's right. JJ Kale, Ricky Van Shelton, K Lang, Eddie Arnold, Janie Frickey, Eddie Raven, the Gatlin brothers, Susie Bogus, Webb Pierce and Bob. Hope so. I don't even hardly know where to start with that, but start We shall.
Okay. Um, If you insist
by God, I do. 'cause this is, I mean, that is a, that is a crazy list and I know there's a bunch more that we, this is all just me pilfering the internet. Mm-hmm. And then confirming with you that, you know, you have played with them or for them at some point. Mm-hmm. It's just crazy. Let's talk about one of your favorites first.
Steve Warner. Mm-hmm. Any of our country music fans will know [00:29:00] him. And if you're not a country music fan, I hope you'll go check him out. Talk about a Prodigy.
Tony Migliore: Yes. Steve, I met him when he was 18 chad Atkins had signed him to RCA and said, I want you to come out on the road with me and play bass for me, and I'll put you out front, do a few songs before we come out.
And that's when I met Steve and we became lifelong friends. He was modest, humble, sweet guy. And I can honestly say that this many years later, he hasn't changed a bit. He still loves the music, he still loves to perform, loves to play, and he gets a certain joy out of, out of just performing and playing.
And yes, he's a great songwriter. He's a wonderful singer, but he's also a fantastic guitar player. I [00:30:00] can't really say enough about his talent. He's just, just, uh, that, that great. So Chet Si started to take him out on the road and after, after a couple years, uh, he said, okay, you're fired from the road.
Go have your career now. And he did. And he's done quite well for himself.
Scott Heidner: And yeah, I would say he has, he's
Tony Migliore: still the nicest guy you'd ever want to meet.
Scott Heidner: Steve Warner is a pretty prolifically successful recording artist, but as some listeners will know, also just a virtuoso musician and an underappreciated songwriter in my opinion.
I know I've shared this with you before Tony, and this story takes a minute to reach conclusion, but Merle Haggard, who in my strong opinion might be the greatest artist ever once was quoted as saying if there was ever anybody born with more [00:31:00] talent than one human should have, it's Glen Campbell.
Mm-hmm. Of who, who we'll talk about in a minute. I thought that was a, a hard to argue with that. 'cause Glen was so talented. But in my opinion, move forward a generation. If you were gonna pick somebody to say that about now, it would probably be Steve Warner. Yes. Yes, definitely. I mean, such a pure vocalist.
Mm-hmm. Effortless singer. Yeah. He's just great. Okay. Well, um, so another name it, because it's gonna be worth it. Talk to me a little bit about Charlie McCoy and he's on this list. This list is made up of recording artists as opposed to studio guys. Charlie did both. Mm-hmm. Probably much more prolific as a studio guy, but I left him on here because he was a recording artist in his own right.
Yes. Mostly I just wanted you to talk about him.
Tony Migliore: Well, Charlie is a dear friend, and he started out as a kid. I [00:32:00] mean, he was, maybe when he came here, he was barely out of his teens. But, he's Such a talented musician. He plays a myriad of instruments, everything from guitar, bass harmonica, which he's most known for, vibes, trumpet, tuba, just everything he can do it all.
And talk about another modest musician. You know, we all consider ourselves side men. The guy out front or the gal out front is the artist and we're there to support that artist and make them sound good. It's not up to us to make them look good. That's up to their hairdresser and all that stuff, but, uh, uh, it's up to us to make them sound
Scott Heidner: is Charlie.
And I don't know if this metric is captured anywhere, but I would probably, if you look at just number of song credits, it has to be [00:33:00] one of the top five. In country music history, doesn't he? I mean, 'cause he probably, definitely
Tony Migliore: one of the top five in country music history, but maybe, you know, in music history.
Yeah. Of recorded music.
Scott Heidner: Yeah. 'Cause people used him for all kinds of music and all kinds of instruments. I mean,
Tony Migliore: you know, he recorded with Bob Dylan, he recorded with, uh, you know, any number of, rock and roll artists as well. He's just a legend. He's in the, he's in the country Music Hall of Fame.
He's in the Musicians Hall of Fame and I don't know what else, but Yeah. You know,
Scott Heidner: when they put him in the country Music Hall of Fame, not all that long ago. Yeah. And I would've been a crime against humanity if they had not got him in there while he was still with us. I was really happy to see that.
Mm-hmm. Well, we could do a whole other podcast about Charlie McCoy. Maybe we should invite him on as the next guest.
Tony Migliore: I think that'll be wonderful.
Scott Heidner: All right. Well, Kevin Key's in the room here with us. We'll, see if he can I, I'll shamelessly say, say too, Kevin. I come down and record here, and [00:34:00] Kevin's my producer.
Mm-hmm. And of course, Kevin knows a lot of these guys too. It was a bucket list moment for me for sure. We'd recorded a Waylon Jennings song, old song called Clyde. And we already had the tracks done in the studio. And Kevin texted me and said, Hey, Charlie McCoy's. Coming over to work on another project if he's interested.
You wanna see if he's available to, you know, play harmonica on that Waylon song and Yes, yes, yes, I do think so. Sure. And, and then he said what, uh, any idea, like, you know, what you want him to do. And I just, just apoplectic. I'm like, Kevin, whatever he wants, why he wants to go whistle, you know, that, that's just fine.
It's recorded. He does that well too. Oh, I don't doubt it. I don't doubt it at all. He's, yeah. Okay. We'll move on. So from the, the not so modern in terms of, Charlie's been around forever to the, slightly more modern, you [00:35:00] have an extraordinary story to tell about working with Shania Twain.
Tony Migliore: I had a business partner in Canada, who had actually done a couple of albums with, and she decided, I think she knew Shania's family.
And, uh, so she called me and said, I've just signed on as her manager and I want to do some demos with her at the studio and see what we can come up with. So, uh, she came down with Shania and, uh. She stay, she and I have stayed at my house
Scott Heidner: and, and stay at your house. You don't mean for the afternoon?
No. She brought her suitcase and Yes. Moved in.
Tony Migliore: Yeah. I think, I think it was about five weeks while we were working on this stuff. And that was her first foray into Nashville. Needless to say, what we [00:36:00] did did not really get anywhere, but, uh, eventually, my friend and ma uh, who was managing her took her to another producer and, uh, they got the ball rolling for her.
Boy did they ever, and it just, from there it just snowballed. And she's had a magnificent career. And I just think the world of it.
Scott Heidner: Yeah. It's just unimaginable with the stature she has now to think of her being 18 and Yeah. Taking the spare bedroom at the house. She was just kid. If you'd known then what you know now, you could have preserved that room as it was.
And it probably would've been added to the bus tours around here. You know. Stop, stop it. I hadn't thought about that. Stop heading and see the, that's a pretty
Tony Migliore: good idea.
Scott Heidner: See the room Shania stayed in when she first moved to town. Wow. Uh, yeah. Could have, could have had a market. Well, let me ask you about another one of my all time favorites.
Ray Price if memory serves. Your work with Ray was really centered around a specific album, wasn't it?
Tony Migliore: Yes. They [00:37:00] did an album called the Cherokee Cowboys Revisited, I think it was called. And, uh, they got as many of the original Ray Price Band members together as they could. And, he had, a keyboard player that was part of his band.
Jim Fogle song was producing Ray at the time, and, I, I had done a lot of work with Jim and so, uh, I was called to play piano.
Now his, his, keyboard player that he used on the road all the time, and they, he'd been with him forever. Blondie called Calderone was his name. And, Blondie came in. I said, why don't you are? Why don't you play? He said, no, no, no. You play piano. I'll play vibes. I said, oh, okay. And, uh, we, we got along great.
He, you know, no, no issues, like, you know, I'm so-and-so's piano player is all I need to do. He, he was, he was perfectly fine with that. [00:38:00] Hey,
Scott Heidner: recording
Tony Migliore: vocals? Yes. Oh,
Scott Heidner: so you got to hear him in the studio
Tony Migliore: live. Mm-hmm. Had about 10 people in the studio at, at one time. Wow.
Scott Heidner: Is it goosebump inducing? He
Tony Migliore: had a voice.
Yeah, he did. Or did he have a voice and, and smooth and in tune, which, uh, this was long before Autotune. You had to be able to sing. In order to, you know, no doubt. To get anywhere
Scott Heidner: In my home. These were not the three most popular artists, and maybe not even thought of as the three greatest singers holistically, but the term cro to all of us.
But there's a pretty common texture to it. And in my house, the three crooners in country music were Ray Price, Eddie Arnold, and Jim Reeves. I mean, that was the Holy Trinity of. Nightclub, you know, smooth, whatever. Oh, that's awesome.
Tony Migliore: Yeah. And the crooner thing goes with, basically with love songs or sad [00:39:00] songs and a lot of them slow songs.
Scott Heidner: Yeah. Ray, we could talk about, well we won't get into this, but Ray for me too, was artists that have long careers. It's so, so common that fans will have an era of their music that they really like. And, you know, oh, I really like the early stuff. Not so much later stuff, or I didn't care for the early stuff, but I liked later stuff.
You know, Ray made a pretty seismic transition from that hardcore country to more of the strings and the whatever, the trombones. I loved both chapters of his career equally. Yes. Yep. Yeah, they were all good. Let's talk about a guy that you and I mutually, I think believe is one of the most underappreciated singers in Nashville history, that you got to work with Ed Bruce.
Tony Migliore: Oh, yes.
Scott Heidner: Tell us what you did with Ed.
Tony Migliore: Well, I met Ed very early on. I was doing some demos for Tree [00:40:00] Publishing and Ed was one of their writers, and so I got to do some of his early demos, there. Fast forward probably 25 years. I'm now involved in, I was involved with a recording studio, in Brentwood, just outside of Nashville.
And, uh, my business partner there was running Ed's publishing company. So Ed would come in and do some demos there, and we got to know each other ed was a very imposing kind of guy, but he had a voice, you know, and he was one of those guys that you don't mess around with, but he's gentle and his music, mamas don't let your babies grow up to be cowboys, which he originally recorded.
And then, Waylon and Willie, of course, made it, made a standard,
Scott Heidner: I gotta say, they, they made him a millionaire.
Tony Migliore: They, well, they, they did. Yeah. Yeah. [00:41:00] But it was, he was a very sensitive writer. He, he, he took subjects that people weren't really, you know, most, most songs are love songs, in, in country anyway, love songs, drinking songs, divorce songs, things like that.
He would find, we did a song with him that he was inspired by a homeless guy living in a refrigerator, cardboard box. And talk about a sad song. And when we talked earlier, I, so I'm gonna try to find that and I haven't been able to find it. But, uh,
Scott Heidner: can I, can I tell you, I went home last night and searched everywhere online on the, couldn't find it.
Streaming services. Couldn't find it, but I'm not giving up yet.
Tony Migliore: Well, I'm Nor am I. I'll, I'll, I'll find it somewhere. Yeah. He's probably in, in storage unit.
Scott Heidner: He was, a sophisticated writer. In my opinion. When I say sophisticated, that doesn't mean, you know, necessarily that [00:42:00] the, that the music was overly sophisticated, but he was emotionally sophisticated.
Yes. He and Merle Haggard always mm-hmm. Said, you know, the, the art of songwriting is capturing the largest amount of emotion, the fewest number of words. And, um, ed's, oh, well, now we have a, that's not Tony's cell phone. That's a real actual emergency in the siren going by. Um. Yeah. Ed's material, he had a real gift for.
Mm-hmm. The message was infinitely more powerful than the sum of the words, you know? Yes. He was a great writer. Yes. And like I've said a couple of times, if we have listeners out there that are still going, well, I don't think I know who Ed Bruce is, do yourself a favor and check it out. Mm-hmm.
Uh, let's talk about another one of the guys that you didn't just work for, but became a lifetime friend and, and companion of sorts. Mickey Gilly. Mickey Gilly. Yeah. How, what was your first intersection there?
Tony Migliore: I got called to play on a session with him, by the [00:43:00] producer that, he was working with before he worked with Jim Ed Norman.
And, I did, worked on that one album. And then he transitioned over to Jim Ed Norman for the, urban Cowboy soundtrack. He did a couple songs for the soundtrack. One of 'em was, his version of Stand By Me, and, uh, so I got to play on that, and that was fun. And then, uh, subsequently recorded with Mickey probably, I don't know, maybe.
10 albums over the next three years. Yeah. And there were a bunch of hits out of there and you're familiar with one of them? Definitely. 'cause I know you recorded it. I did, but, yeah. Put your dreams away. Yeah.
Scott Heidner: Yeah. My all time favorite of his. So listeners, if you had a lot of you, a lot of you hopefully know the name Mickey Gilly, but if, you know, he had more hits than you'd ever remember and Tony's being modest about it, but the truth is, he cut the piano of the [00:44:00] studio, work on a lot of those tracks, including Stand By Me.
Was that his first number one?
Tony Migliore: Oh no. Girls Get prettier at closing time was his first one. Yeah. Yeah. And all the Honky to Yeah. Things. Yeah. Yeah. And Room full of Roses. Yeah. And, I Overlooked The Orchid. Those were his earlier ones. When, uh, Jim Ed started with him, he kind of became the crooner, as you were talking about earlier.
Mm-hmm. Uh, a lot of ballads. Some fantastic songs
Scott Heidner: He sure was gifted at Remaking a song and making it his own. Yeah. True Love Ways and Stand By Me and Room Full of Roses. Yeah. It's not an easy thing to do, to take an iconic song and put your own stamp on it. He was good at
Tony Migliore: it.
Scott Heidner: And be,
Tony Migliore: and have it be successful.
Yeah. Yeah.
Scott Heidner: Yeah. That's awesome. Share at least a little bit, just as we were plugging in, you were telling Kevin and I, Mickey Gilly was like a cat
Tony Migliore: with nine lives. With
Scott Heidner: nine lives. Yeah. Yeah.
Tony Migliore: He had so many mishaps in his life, [00:45:00] he was a pilot and throughout his life he crashed twice and walked away both times.
He had heart issues when he was young and was one of the first, people to have open heart surgery. And not the first, but in that earliest of groups when it was still very experimental. And then they said, you could die from this. And he said, well, I might die anyway. And, uh, he, he came bouncing back every time.
When he was 75, he was helping someone move a couch and he was walking backwards and didn't realize there was a step there. And he fell and broke several vertebrae in his neck. And I was confined to a wheelchair and they said, you'll never walk again. And I'm here to say, 'cause I was there a year later, he walked out on stage and performed, in Branson.
Yeah. [00:46:00] And, uh, we, we became dear friends, I'm gonna be working. In Las Vegas, can you write the arrangements for the orchestra? And I said, yeah, sure I can. So I wrote the arrangements and about a week before the gig was to commence, I called him up. I said, where do you want me to send these arrangements?
He said, what do you mean send them? Aren't you coming? I said, well, you never asked me that. And he said, no, no, no, no, no. You gotta come out. You gotta come out. So I went out and we, we did several stints in Las Vegas and Reno and Tahoe and, uh, Atlantic City at the casino, hotels.
Scott Heidner: So I want to call attention to something, in your typical modest form, you just skipped right by, you know, Mickey Gilly said, Hey, can you write these charts for me?
And you're like, oh, sure, I can. It makes it sound very, you know, cavalier to write charts. I don't, I didn't mean to sound well, no, no. I don't mean in, I I mean in a modest way. You, [00:47:00] yeah. Okay. Not, not trumpeting your own talents there, but to write scores or to write, charts for orchestras is very, very different than writing a chart for a Nashville, you know, studio session.
Yeah. Rather than, just numbers and chords and whatever. I mean, you are writing every note. For every instrument in that orchestra. Yes. And not only that, but doing it back when there wasn't software to do it. I mean, this was,
Tony Migliore: it was, it was pencil on paper. Yeah.
Scott Heidner: And to have to sit down and do that for every single song in the show mm-hmm.
You would've to write an individual chart with every note of music mm-hmm. For every instrument. So Tony is, is modest and just says, yeah, sure. I'll, I'll write a chart for you. But, that is a special skill and it's not all that common. And it's part of what, to [00:48:00] me makes you such a, an interesting and impressive story, the diversity of, of what you do.
And on that note, you mentioned going to Vegas with him and, and leading that orchestra at some point. I was gonna get to this, but I'll just bring it up now. In addition to, you know, all the Nashville work here, Tony has conducted, is this true? The Honolulu Symphony?
Tony Migliore: Yes.
Scott Heidner: Okay. The Atlanta Symphony. Yes. Goodness gracious. And then the orchestras in Las Vegas at the MGM Grand mm-hmm. The Aladdin, Harrah's, and Sands. Mm-hmm. The Sands was in Atlantic City.
Yeah. Okay. So yeah. While you were doing, you know, studio sessions by the hundreds, if not thousands and running a business, which we'll get to later, and touring with some of the most iconic people of all time, which we haven't even touched yet, also found the time to write, orchestral scores and [00:49:00] go out and conduct orchestras around the country and the world and whatnot.
It's, it's just, it's amazing. It really is.
Tony Migliore: Those that think, well, it's just a job you can stop. You can't, if it's in you, you have to do it. Whether you do it for money or for yourself. Many folks, love music and they want to play music, whether it's in their living room or in a club locally or on a concert stage.
They have to do it.
Scott Heidner: There's a show, I'm sure you've seen, whispering Bill hosts, uh, oh, round Circle people. Yes. Was, yes, of course. Um, oh, this has been many years ago now. He had, it's probably my favorite show ever. He had all, well, all, he had a huge number I mean every Vince was there. Hank Cochran was there, buddy Ken, Richard Lee. Tom Skyler.
Tony Migliore: If I may, if I may interrupt you. By the way, Richard Lee was one of the writers on, uh, put Dreams Away. [00:50:00] I'll
Scott Heidner: be a son of a
Tony Migliore: gun and Waylon Holyfield.
Scott Heidner: Yeah. Isn't he also the one that wrote the Big Crystal Gale?
Yes. A little more musically intricate than some of the other folks that were there. Well, the reason I bring it up, you mentioned Tony, that it's a life, it's not a job and that you can't get away from it on this special, you know, whispered, bill was asking everybody these questions about how do you write songs and when do you do it,
and he was getting a variety of answers. And the only time the entire show that he asked a question that the entire circle of it was probably, gosh, I don't know, 25, 28 songwriters there. The only time that he got the same answer, same body language, in unison from them is when he talked about that and he said, let me ask you a question.
If you all were never going to get a song recorded or make a penny again in your life, would you still be writing songs all the time? And it was the only [00:51:00] question the entire day. That the whole crowd in just, yeah. Yes, absolutely. No question about it, which I think speaks to your comment. Okay. Well, Mickey Gilley's, another guy.
I could just sit and listen to stories forever too. But let me hit a few more of these on the list that I want to touch on. Joe Diffy. So kinda like the Shania Twain story when, you know, you and I first talked and I said, oh, tell me about Shania Twain. And I was surprised to find out how far back, you know, before she was famous, you were with Joe.
I was anticipating, you know, hearing, oh gosh, did you play on any of the big chart hits or whatever, but instead you said, Nope. I met Joe
Tony Migliore: when he was doing demos. doing demos. He was, one of our songwriters, for our publishing company was a, a young, young Canadian fellow named Cyril Rosson. And he and Joe, I think wrote some things together.
He wrote some things with Alan Jackson. He wrote some things with, Keith Urban when he first came to town. He would have Joe come in and sing these demos. And [00:52:00] Joe was a wonderful singer and fast. I mean, you could knock out three and four demos in a three hour session easily with a guy like Joe Diffy. 'cause he came in prepared and there were very few punch ins after the fact. He was very good.
Yeah,
Scott Heidner: I know. I always heard he sang the demo on, I crossed my Heart the Big George Strait hit when it first came to town. But you could tell right away that voice was
Tony Migliore: Oh, yeah. Special. We, we all knew that he wasn't gonna be singing demos for a long, very long.
Scott Heidner: Did you ever cross paths with him or work with him after that first big album?
His blew up? No. Yeah. You knew you knew him back when. Mm-hmm. So, Tom t Hall is another guy that you've worked with, but also, had some transactions with on the business side, not just the music side, which we're still gonna get to later. But, Tom t's probably easily in my top 10 favorite songwriters ever.
I'd tell us. What a storyteller. Oh my goodness. Yeah. [00:53:00] What, what was your interaction there and what was he like? And
Tony Migliore: Tom owned a studio in Brentwood and it was called The Toy Box, and it was basically his play thing. And, uh, his engineer, was a dear friend of mine whose name was Chuck Haynes.
And when Tom got tired of having a studio, he offered to sell it to Chuck. And Chuck brought me and another fella in to partner with him, renamed it. We called it Chelsea. Because we were buying the building from him. So we had to pay him every month anyway, but, uh, uh, uh,
Scott Heidner: maintained a presence.
Yes. AKA picked up the rent.
Tony Migliore: And he also had a chair in the vocal booth that he said, you cannot get rid of this chair. To someone that, that walked in and saw it for the first time, they'd go, that looks like an electric chair without the hat. There's [00:54:00] a high back thing and arms, you know, wide arms with, a hole for a glass or a bottle on one side and a hole for an ashtray on the other side.
He said, you, you gotta keep the chair. That was the only, the only, only prerequisite.
Scott Heidner: Maybe he knew something. You know, when you have your artist in there, if you're not getting their best effort, maybe you let 'em think that thing actually is wired and, you know, you can flip a switch if you're not getting the best.
Tony Migliore: Yeah. We used to, we used to joke around and say, have a seat. And when you, when you hear the, hear the pellets drop, just take a deep breath.
Scott Heidner: Was he as much of a gentle soul in real life as he seemed to be? He was.
Tony Migliore: He was. He was never, he never raised his voice. He never, you know, I, I never saw him get angry. Yeah. I'm sure we all get angry at some point, but
Scott Heidner: he was sure a lovable figure. Yeah. At least to the public's eye. To mine,
Tony Migliore: you know? Yeah.
And, and he just. He was, his songs portrayed his personality. Yeah. You know? [00:55:00]
Scott Heidner: Yeah. And, just a naturally funny bastard, you know, without trying to be, yeah. Uh, just gifted wit. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And it comes through in a song, right? Yes. Okay. Well, let's move on. I got another artist that, yet again, kinda like Shania Twain and Joe Diffy.
I want you to share the audience, your exposure, you know, before he made it big. Talk to me about Alan Jackson.
Tony Migliore: Alan, when he first, moved to town, was trying to be a songwriter. And, he wrote some songs with my friend Cyril in my, in my den, at the house. 'Cause Cyril would stay, at the house when he came in from Canada.
He would come in, you know, once about once a month for a week or so, and then come in, do some work, and then head back home. 'cause he had a family up there. And, uh, so he would just stay at my house 'cause I was single at the time and, and, you know, had extra rooms. So, Alan would come in [00:56:00] and, and they'd, they'd be writing.
And that one time I. Alan said, I gotta, I gotta go, I gotta go paint a house. This was before of, obviously before he became Right. You know, before he got a record deal, but became Alan Jackson.
Scott Heidner: But again, this just shows the, I mean, this just crazy to think Alan Jackson used to sit in your den with your buddy at your house mm-hmm.
And write songs. Mm-hmm. I mean, it's just, that's nuts.
Tony Migliore: Yep.
Scott Heidner: It's absolutely nuts. There are
Tony Migliore: several of 'em.
Scott Heidner: But not in your world. It's not, but to the rest of us. That is crazy. Well, you could, you could have, sealed that room off and added that to the Nashville bus tour, you know, come see you.
Tony Migliore: You're giving me an idea here. Yeah. Maybe, maybe I need to open a b and B and have
Scott Heidner: that be the room. Monetize these, uh, this hospitality. That's right.
Well, Tony, that seems like a decent place to pause. I think we've had so much good material and so much yet to come.
Okay, we're gonna turn this into a [00:57:00] two-parter here. So listeners, thank you for tuning into part one and, stay tuned for part two, which will be out shortly.