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Real faith. Real life. Hosted by Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown of Sandals Church, The Debrief Podcast goes beyond Sunday conversations—diving into the questions, stories, and struggles that shape who we are. Thoughtful. Honest. Unfiltered.
Welcome to the debrief podcast with Matthew Stephen Brown. On this show, pastor Matt sits down with his friends to answer your questions about life, Jesus, and the bible. Let's get into the episode.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Hey, guys. Welcome to The Debrief, man. So glad to have you guys back, and things have been a little tight around the office, and so we're stuck with Justin Kowalski That's right. Now, if you don't know who he is, you gotta check out last week's episode. He has been on staff for twenty one years, done almost everything, and last week, I or in the last episode anyways, I interviewed you.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:But today, you are in the driver seat, my friend.
Justin Kowalski:That's right.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:You're gonna ask these incredible questions on creativity. Mhmm. And hopefully, I'm gonna provide some answers that give direction and not more confusion.
Justin Kowalski:That's right. That's what we're gonna do. Alright. So our first question is from Kennedy in Long Beach, California. I have been a stay at home mom for ten years, and I will transition to working again in the next few years.
Justin Kowalski:I'm very overwhelmed by what to do for my career. I have been praying but not getting answers. I don't know what God is calling me to do. I know my ultimate identity is in Christ, not my role or jobs, but I also want to do something that I love and enjoy and honors the gifts that God has given me. How do I go about making this decision when I don't feel like God is guiding my answer?
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Yeah. And so, man, Kennedy, great question. First of all, thank you for your dedication to being a stay at home mom What for 10 a absolute blessing to your kids, to your family, and I think that that's just such a wonderful, beautiful thing when parents are able to do that. So I just wanna say thank you for that work. And any time you're transitioning over a period of time, ten years like this, this is a big deal.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Yeah. So I don't care what it is, career change, you from you're going from stay at home mom to working out in a career, it could be changing careers. These are difficult things to do. I, you know, I don't know what I would do if they're like, hey, good run, you're fired, Matt, you know? But I'd have to figure something else out, because we don't have enough money saved up for me not to work.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:So I've watched a lot of my friends go through this, and particularly Kennedy, guys my age, so like we're the Xers, and now we're the guys, isn't that weird we were the young bucks coming up, but now we're the old guys getting let go because there are other people that can do it cheaper. Yeah. So I'm watching a lot of my friends go through this, trying to figure out second careers, third careers, stuff like this. I think the most important thing, Kennedy, is two things. Number one, it sounds like you have clarity.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Yeah. So you're saying God hasn't spoken. I feel like when I look at your question, he has spoken, and he's telling you it's time for a change. So God doesn't God never gives us a map. He gives us a guide.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:And so what a lot of times we want as Christians is we want the map, and what Jesus is going to do is he's going to guide you through this. So what he's already told you, it sounds like, is, hey, it's time to change, it's time to go out into the workforce, and what I would say is have your hands as open as possible. And I think it's easy to get caught up nowadays into the job has to be the perfect job that I love, where I make my exact salary, I work my 3.2 days a week, I have every holiday off, you know, I have this benefit package. So we create this golden child, so to speak, of a job, and God has to get me in that exact thing. So what I would just say is, God, I'm open handed, and I would maybe go to a recruiting service, I would talk to somebody that hires, and sit down with somebody and unpack your giftedness, because it's been ten years.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:So what are some things maybe that you learned at, you know, being a stay at home mom that you don't know about, and sit down with a guidance career counselor, maybe, you know, somebody in your church or at Sandals Church, you can literally Google this, you know, a large city like Long Beach, they're going have somebody like this that's going to help you put together a resume, talk about your strengths and the gifts that you have, because I know as a stay at home mom, a lot of times, man, you're supervising, you're managing, you're leading, you're budgeting, you know, you're a disciplinarian, man, you could be a prison guard, you know what I'm saying? I mean, there's all kinds of things that you can do because you've had to do all of those jobs over ten years. And then I would just come to Lord and say, okay, Lord, speak. And I would be honest, and I would just say, God, I need to make this amount of money, because with childcare, some jobs are not worth it. So like, if it doesn't pay substantially more than what it costs to now, you know, fund the care for your kids while you're working, or unless you have a family member and you're blessed, then that's great if family can be a part of that, but come up with a number, sit down with a counselor, and just open yourself up to maybe some things that you wouldn't have considered.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:The job market has changed in ten years. Here's what I would tell you, Kennedy. Here's what, and you know, you've been at Sandals for years, I would rather hire somebody who doesn't know what they're doing, that's willing to learn Yeah. That has integrity, and will work hard. If you give me those three things, like, look, I have integrity, I'm gonna work hard, and I'm willing to learn.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:That person, I can teach almost anything, almost any job to. The person that comes in that says, I'm gonna work this, and I only do this widget, and I have to make this much in an hour, I'm just not interested in that person at all. What I would say, Kennedy, is good people are even harder to find nowadays, and if you're a good person, you're going to bless somebody with all of this information and all of this knowledge. And I would say take confidence in that, because being a mom for ten years, that's a major accomplishment. Yeah.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Like you just did a decade.
Justin Kowalski:Yeah.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:You know what I'm saying? And so I praise God for that. We were just sitting in a meeting, I don't know, an hour ago from when we're taping this, and people presented, creatives presented something to me, and I was like, Oh, that's great. And my wife is like, That's not great. She's like, We're not playing that.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:We're not showing that. And here's the thing, she's not the senior pastor I am, but, Kennedy, she noticed something I didn't notice. She saw something that I couldn't see. She comes at it as a perspective of she just said, hey, first time guests are going be at our service. Moms are going be at our service.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Kids, I'm a 54 year old man. You know, my sense of humor, a little different from my wife's sense of humor. And she caught some things, and she said, no. And I'm so grateful, Kennedy, that she was in that meeting with me, and she's been a homemaker for most of her life. But she has wisdom and eyesight that I do not have.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:So don't be, you know, like, feel like you don't have something to offer, but put yourself out there, get a guidance counselor, get online, get on Google, you probably know better than I do how to find that. I mean, not that you don't love your job, and you're not looking all this stuff.
Justin Kowalski:Oh, yeah, I'm not looking.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Yeah. But, you know, you can find that. We can put that in the show notes. There's all kinds of places that can help you do that. And I just want you to know I love you, and I'll be praying for you.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:But I think God has spoken. So he's been clear.
Justin Kowalski:Go ahead. Matt, I was gonna say, I don't know her whole situation. Like, ten years as a stay at home mom, like, hey. That could be a blessing, or I could be like, I gotta get out of the house. So I don't know all the circumstances, but I would love what you said.
Justin Kowalski:Like, man, just being a dependable employee, that is a million bucks right there. Not that you're gonna make a million bucks. Yeah. That's super helpful. What I wanted to say was if you are aware of what your skills and your talents are, someone else is gonna start to see that as well.
Justin Kowalski:Like, when you're working in a place and someone's like, oh, you're good at that? Just, you know, trust that as well. I'm not saying it's a guarantee, but, like, know what you can do, but also be willing to be shaped too. Like, wherever you're at, I think people's skills will get noticed. Like, whatever you do, it's just it's just part of every job.
Justin Kowalski:Like, I've seen people even come in here. I'm like, oh, that person's really good
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:at that.
Justin Kowalski:And then I end up it. Mhmm. Because, oh, you got in the door, and then a need arose, and they're like, oh, you know what? So and so can do that. And so just, you know, trust Yeah.
Justin Kowalski:Trust, like, whatever you can step into.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:So And I would say two things. If let's say I had to go out and and get a new career, I wouldn't care as much about what I do as much about who I work for. Yeah. And that's the thing, who you work with really dictates how your whole life is. Like you can make a million bucks, and if you work with bad people in a toxic environment, man, it's miserable.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:So I would really be evaluating my boss. Is this the person that I wanna spend forty hours a week with, thirty hours a week with? And then I would look, I would wanna work for a boss that's a noticer, what he just said. So if they're all about themselves, they're never gonna see you. Yeah.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Are they a person? Like at Sandals Church, man, I don't care who gets the credit, I want Sandals to be the best church that we can possibly be. I could care less if it's Justin, if it's me, whoever it is. This is Jesus' church, we want to win souls, we want to make a difference for eternity. I don't need the credit.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:I don't want to work for somebody that it has to all be about them. So that's something that I would look forward, and good managers and good bosses are hard to find, but when you find one, you know, especially those of you that are listening in your early 20s, and you're like, oh, what am I supposed to do? Here's what I would Go find an entrepreneur. Go find a business leader. Who cares what they pay you?
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Care about what you can learn, and take that knowledge and learn so that you can become something great. So, you know, any boss can tell you what to do. A great boss can show you who to become. And so, Kennedy, I I would encourage you to do that. So that was a great question.
Justin Kowalski:Yeah. Was good. Alright. Next, we got Ellie from Oklahoma City. I am an artist and a writer.
Justin Kowalski:I incorporate a lot of themes like grief and sadness into my work. The things I'm passionate to write about are emotions and situations that deal with grief, loss, and sadness. I believe that's the essence of my art. If that was taken out of my art, it takes away humanity from it. I would not be happy only writing happy stories.
Justin Kowalski:So my question is, would I be able to write these deeper themes and emotions in heaven? Wow.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Man, Eli, I love artists because artists ask questions that no one on earth. So we are all wanting no suffering in heaven, and we got an artist that's like, is there a little suffering? I'm hoping there's a little a little can we have a little cloudy day? Some rain. So, Ellie, let me let me say this, that lamenting is lost form of art.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Yeah. So there's a book in the Bible called Lamentations, and we are not good at lamenting. I hate it when we go to Christian funerals, and we don't even call them funerals anymore, they're celebrations of life. Yeah. I'm like, we can't even we can't even let the person die.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:We can't even grieve. We we like we go straight to the touchdown, and the Bible says that we are to not grieve as people who have no hope, but we are to grieve. You know, the passage that I preached on today, which they will have heard months ago when this comes out, but Jesus grieved when John the Baptist got his head cut off. Like, it made him sad. So I think that that's good.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:When Lazarus and he knows that he's gonna bring him back from the dead, he's sad. So I think that grief is an important part of life, and it brings us balance. So here's the thing. First of all, Ellie, this is one of the things that many Christians get wrong. We're not going to spend eternity in heaven.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:So here's how the Bible ends. The Bible ends with a new heaven and a new earth, and Christianity is not about us dying and going to heaven. The ultimate goal of Christianity is about God coming to earth to be with us. So there's a new heaven and a new earth, and we will live on this new earth with him. So Jesus is the first creation of the new created order.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:So when you open your Bible in Genesis chapter one, it says, in the beginning, God created. Well, there's another creation story, and that's why when you open your Bible into the Gospel of John, it mirrors Genesis.
Justin Kowalski:Yeah.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:So it literally says, In the beginning was the word. John is trying to say, we're gonna tell a story about a new beginning that has a different ending. So we know what went wrong in Genesis three, Adam and Eve fell. Now we need to know what went right. Jesus died, but he rose.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:So Jesus is the new, the first person of the new creation, and he's telling us he's preparing and creating a place for us so that we can be with him. So think about the first earth He spent six days on, this last one He's been working on for two thousand years, I can't wait to see it, it's gonna be awesome. But here's one of the things that Christians get wrong, is we have this idea, because Revelation says that when he returns, he'll wipe away every tear, and there will be no more suffering. So what we think of, Ellie, is that heaven will be perfect because there's no tears and there's no pain. But I don't know that that means it's a perfect place.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Now, why is that? If we go back to the book of Genesis, before Adam and Eve sinned, the assumption is they felt no pain. Yeah. That's what almost every Christian thinks. There was no pain.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:But if there wasn't pain, how would you know as a human being to stop doing something? Yeah. See, pain is an important part of our processing system. Yeah. If we don't know that fire's hot, we will be burned and it will do damage to our bodies.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:So God has placed these sensors in our bodies to experience life as it is. And so I wanna encourage everyone, when Adam and Eve sin, God judges Adam, God judges Eve, God judges the snake, which, that's another conversation. I don't think it's just a snake. I think it's a magical being, and we all miss that. In the ancient world, snakes were always symbols of wisdom, and oftentimes angelic creatures come in the form of snakes in the ancient world.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:So it's a magical being. God judges the serpent, God judges Adam, God judges Eve. Listen to this language very carefully. He tells Eve, your pain in childbirth, listen to this, will be greatly increased. He doesn't say it will be created.
Justin Kowalski:Yeah.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:So what that means is before the fall, when she gave birth, it would hurt. Yeah. Pushing out a kid would hurt. The penalty is it's increased. Yeah.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:So here's what's gonna be taken away. Suffering that cannot be healed, pain that cannot be understood, tears that cannot be wiped away. We still need to be able to cry. That's part of what makes us human. Still need to be able to experience pain.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:That's part of what makes us real. Yeah. And so there are things in the new earth that will be clearer and better, but even before the fall, let's say Adam and Eve jumped off a cliff, I'm assuming their bodies would die.
Justin Kowalski:Yeah.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Because gravity was a real thing. And so even when God created Adam and Earth before the fall, the Earth was beautiful, but it still was dangerous. So, and then you look, right, there's a tree in Jerusalem, the new heavenly city that's in Israel, and there's a tree, right, and it has leaves, one for every month. Do you remember what they do? They heal the nations.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:So if we're all well all the time and there's no suffering, why do we need medicine?
Justin Kowalski:Yeah.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:And here's the lesson, Ellie, because we will always need God. We cannot exist without him. Matter of fact, I don't know this, but what I think hell is part is of what hell is, is people get eternal bodies that just rot forever and fall apart. You know, kind of like mummies? Yeah.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Like they're alive, but they don't die. The body doesn't work because it's not renewed. It's not connected to the source. And so I don't know that to be true, but I think that's part of eternal death is you are separate from the one that all life exists in, and so that's how. So I think in heaven, we're still gonna be able to lament.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:You know, one of the questions I get all the time is will we know our relatives and stuff like I mean, Jesus knows the disciples. Yeah. Like, he's like, Thomas, look at me. I mean, he he knows he knows exactly who they are.
Justin Kowalski:Yeah.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:And so we're gonna know some things. We're still gonna have to process some things. I think we're gonna be aware of our family and friends that that rejected Jesus, and that's something that we're gonna have to process with with Jesus, and that's gonna be painful, but not a pain that cannot be managed. Yeah. Right, because there's pain.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Know, there's people in our church, they break a leg, that hurts, it feels bad, and then there's people in our church that have chronic pain. Yeah. And there's no healing for it. That will not exist in heaven. Yeah.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:That will not exist. But pain is not necessarily a bad thing. So so, Eli, I hope that helps. Great question.
Justin Kowalski:Yeah.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:I love how artists think.
Justin Kowalski:Yeah. I wanted to I wanted to encourage her to continue to like, if if you be honest in what you're creating. Like, if you have a sad story to tell, then tell it. Yeah. Like, especially I mean, sounds like she's a believer in, like, if if the Lord gave you that story, share that story.
Justin Kowalski:I mean, you go through Psalms. It's a lot of sighing Yeah. A lot of crying out. That's honesty, and we need that. And when I'm, like, sad sometimes, I'll listen to a sad song.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Right?
Justin Kowalski:I'm not trying to listen to something hype me up. Sometimes I need to process, and music will help me.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Or That's why I was sent to Peshmode. That's right. That's why I was Brings me down, dude.
Justin Kowalski:Yeah. So I think it's important to be honest in your art, and I hope that you feel, you know, permission, but also, like, we need that. Like, if God gave you, like, the the vision of artists and a story to tell, please tell it. You know? Yeah.
Justin Kowalski:Because I think it's I think it's honoring to be honest with our emotions. God gave us all of our emotions. Like, when people when I do a funeral, like, some people, they say, oh, I need to be strong. I'm like, why?
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:For who?
Justin Kowalski:Yeah. Who do need to be strong for? You need to let your emotions out. Man, when we cry, man, it's like it's a spiritual release. It's part of the process.
Justin Kowalski:What did Jesus do? Jesus wept. He modeled to us what it looks like to have grief management. If you telling your story, whether it's sad or maybe it feels like there's some despair there, maybe that's a way for you to, you know, get out those emotions. It might even help somebody else process.
Justin Kowalski:So I think it's really important, and I hope that, you know, like what you said, bro, like, you took it to a whole other level. Yeah. That's why bastard Matt does the debrief, and I'm just here once every five years. Alright. We got one last question from Paulette in Riverside, California.
Justin Kowalski:I love Riverside, California. What would you say to someone who feels like their creativity isn't spiritual enough to count as a calling? Yeah.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:I I think, Paula, that the calling of the Christian is to live the truest expression of themselves in Christ as long as that's not sin. Yeah. So I I think that's why so many young people today are searching for identity because they don't they don't know who they are, and so they say, I'm in the wrong gendered body. It's why we have this huge infatuation with sexuality where this small part of who I am defines all that I am. And so what I would say is I would stop judging your creativity based upon everyone else, and I would just say your job as a creative is to offer your best for the Lord.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Sometimes, Paula, it's not as good as we want. I mean, you know, people try out for the worship team, and they feel like that's our calling, and we have to tell them, hey, you know, that's not the level of singing ability we're looking for. Or, you know, you play what do you play? Guitar?
Justin Kowalski:I play bass.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Bass. Okay. Yeah. So right. You you know this.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:You've had people try out for drums. Sometimes it's not at the level that you're you're looking for. Now it could be if they practice and they work at it, but sometimes, you know, I mean, that that that's just the way that it is. But just because, let's say, I can't sing on the worship team, I can still sing to God. Yeah.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Like, do you guys know who I sing to all the time now? My grandson.
Justin Kowalski:Yeah.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Like I, dude, every time I put that kid to sleep, I sing him the song I sing him is a brush your teeth song. When you wake up in the morning, it's a quarter to two, and you just don't know what to do, you brush your teeth. That I we just go through that
Justin Kowalski:You just got copyright claimed right there.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Yeah. I and I make up the lyrics. Don't even know if that's a real But here's the thing, Paula, I love him so much, I've completely forgotten about my inability to sing. And and here's why, it's not about me.
Justin Kowalski:Yeah.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:It's about my love for him. And my worship of Jesus isn't there yet, but that's where I know it needs to be. Yeah. When I can completely lose myself, and here's the thing, he just looks at me, and he doesn't, he's not like texting his, you know, 10 old buddies, hey, my grandpa can't sing. He knows that he's loved.
Justin Kowalski:Yeah.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:And the purpose of worship and creativity, Paula, is to let the Lord know we love him.
Justin Kowalski:Yeah.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:And he's most pleased with your honest and best work. Yeah. And so quit worrying about what everybody else does. You know, it's this loving commitment where we devote ourselves to Him, and we do what we do because, a, we enjoy it, and we want to offer it to him. And what I believe about worship is he enjoys it.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:And so spiritual enough, the church has always seen art as spiritual. Yeah. Like, you go to Rome, and there's a lot of things about Rome I don't like. I just realized I'm wearing my wedding ring on the wrong finger. There's a lot of things I don't like about Rome.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:You cannot walk away from Rome and believe that Christians thought art didn't matter. Yeah. Christians thought art mattered, they thought music mattered. Here's what Christians believe, that God is the most beautiful thing in our broken and dark world, and he is worthy of painting, singing, and writing about. And the greatest artists, until like like about one hundred and fifty years ago, all of their devotion, their creative devotion was about God.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Yeah. It's just recently where that's not cool anymore. You know? It's it's gotta be against God, or you have to be atheist, or you have to be something else, and maybe that's why art's terrible now.
Justin Kowalski:Because I think a lot of art is Yeah. Self focused.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Yeah.
Justin Kowalski:It's about us.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Yeah. And that's boring. Well, and I wouldn't just say boring, but it's a horror story. Yeah. Like, we we are not made I forget who it was that said, we're not stars, we don't illuminate, we're the moon.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Mhmm. We reflect. Oh, that's good. And so if we I I wish I came up with that. I didn't come up with that.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:But, like, we were made to reflect the image and glory of God, and so what I think the devil is always trying to tell us, Paula, we're not good enough. Tammy and I, we got to go to England a couple weeks ago, and I went to Oxford. Okay, guys? Like, Matt Brown at Oxford is like, that's just crazy, I was the dumbest student you've ever met in your life, I have ADHD, struggle reading, and I'm in Oxford having a one on one conversation with N. T.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Wright. Wow. And for those of you guys who don't know who this guy is, he is the most brilliant Christian mind alive for the last thirty to forty years.
Justin Kowalski:Yeah.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:He is genius. And so they're like, well, let's let's take some questions, and of course everybody's scared to death, so I'm like, my hands up, I'm on the front row, my wife's having diarrhea. You know, she's like, oh god, don't embarrass us. And I remember I asked him my question, and I said it has three parts. And I remember him sitting back and he said this, he goes, wow.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:And I think we all think we're so dumb, Paula. I sat in a room with the most brilliant mind God's created, and when I asked my question, and it was honest, he said, wow. Yeah. And I think NT Wright is a picture of what I picture God. Truthful, loving, strong.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:I think God speaks an English accent. Gotta tell you. It's very compelling.
Justin Kowalski:Yeah.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:You know, the Irish are gonna be very disappointed. But he said, wow. And I think that's what God says when we do our creative best. Oh, man. I think he says,
Justin Kowalski:wow. Yeah.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Wow, that's beautiful. And so, you know, I'm sorry, Paula, because here's what we do with art, we monetize it, right? So can I sell it? Do my friends like it? If you're an unhealthy three enengram like me, you compare yourself to everybody else.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:And God didn't make you to be anybody else, he made you to be you, and my prayer for you is that spiritual enough is this, when you do your creative best and you offer it to God, and you can hear him say, wow. So your turn, Justin.
Justin Kowalski:No. I right where you landed, I was as I read this, I just felt, who said it wasn't spiritual enough? Yeah. You know? And I know that can be crushing, especially it sounds like, you know, you're all in.
Justin Kowalski:Like, this you want it to be your calling. Whether it's your job or it's Yeah. You know, something you do, it's your calling. You know? And as long as it's honest and if it's worshipful, if you feel like, hey.
Justin Kowalski:I'm doing this as an offering to God, you know, and I don't know what it is, if it's art or if it's a song or whatever, Just keep doing that. And, you know, sometimes people say stuff because they can't do it. You know? And that's hard. That's hard because the I think sometimes people who criticize who don't do it, it almost hurts more.
Justin Kowalski:Like, sometimes a a fellow artist can be like, yeah, man. Keep going. But, like, someone who's just doesn't have it, and I feel for you. What I would encourage you to do, you know, if you're in Riverside, man, whatever you're doing creatively, maybe connect with someone at one of our campuses. We'd love to come alongside you.
Justin Kowalski:May maybe you just need a maybe you need a mentor. Maybe you need someone who's honest if you're willing to hear honest feedback about what you're doing, but
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Yeah. Because we can all improve.
Justin Kowalski:Yeah. A 100%. And I think
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:And for all the young people out there Yeah. Who think that the only way you can have a job is to get paid to do something you love. Yeah. Listen, I love to surf. Nobody pays me to surf.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Nobody gives me free surfboards. I gotta buy every single board when I crack it. I'm never going to be good enough to be paid to surf, but you know what? I enjoy it. And I don't go out there to be the best.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:I go out there because I love it. Yeah. And so here's the thing. So many young people wanna get paid to do what they love, and so they miss out on a great life.
Justin Kowalski:Yeah.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:And there's a lot of surfers that don't have jobs because that's all they do, man. What up, bro? I just surf all day long. It's like, yeah, but you're Peter Pan your whole life. And so, you know, I was not made to surf, was made to be me, and surfing is something I enjoy, it's something I'm passionate about, and I just don't compare myself.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:People, you know what people always ask me, are you any good? I was like, who cares?
Justin Kowalski:Yeah.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:I enjoy it. Yeah. You know, like, you know? Yeah. So, and I'm 54, I mean, how could I be any good?
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:You know, it's like, dude, you know? So thank you guys for listening today, keep sending your questions in. Man, send Justin some love, he did a great job today. I love, Justin, how you pastored people, you were such a great compliment to the show, and I think that you spoke specifically to some artists out there
Justin Kowalski:Yeah.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Who got a word from you that they wouldn't have gotten from me, because I just I don't have your guys' giftedness. But please send your questions into the debrief. Thank you so much for listening. Tag a friend, invite some people, and you know, how do they do that? They rate us or rank us on YouTube, or comment, or Yeah.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Like and subscribe, Smash there we that button. Smash that button. And guys, just so you know, man, we get enough listeners, man, they actually pay us to be on air, and that's great, and so then we can do more things and have better guests, not that this guest wasn't awesome, but we paid him zero. So send in your questions. We love you, God loves you, stay real, keep listening, can't wait to see you on the next episode of the debrief.
Scott Schutte:Thanks for checking out this episode. If you'd like to support this podcast, you can donate at sandalschurch.com/support. This podcast is a way for pastor Matt Brown to answer your questions about topics like the Bible, God, relationships, and culture. Like pastor Matt often says on the show, a podcast is not a pastor. If you'd like prayer or need to speak with someone about a specific situation you were going through, you can email us at help@sandalschurch.com.
Scott Schutte:If you enjoy this podcast, please like, comment, and subscribe. Thanks for being a debrief listener.