Want the raw, unapologetic realities of reclaiming your life? Then tune into the Takeover Unfiltered podcast hosted by yours truly, Brianna Rooney, The Millionaire Recruiter, and Taylor Bradley, The Humble Hustler. We're pulling back the curtain on our personal lives and sharing the ups, downs, and everything in between. From navigating relationships to juggling self-care routines, we're laying it all out on the table. We're all about taking control and making sh*t happen.
Expect raw, candid talks, seasoned with uncensored language. It's time to own your journey, embrace the chaos, and unleash your inner badass. Buckle up, because we're about to take you on a wild ride to self-discovery and empowerment. But don't worry, we're still dishing out some valuable insights into the recruiting world. It's all about finding that balance between work and play, and we're here to show you how it's done.
Ready to kick ass and rewrite the rule book? Grab your favorite drink, cozy up, and join us for some real talk you won't want to miss!
Welcome to Talent takeover.
Unfiltered.
When it comes to working hard and
keeping it real, we know our shit.
Self care, happiness, inner peace and time.
I'm Brianna Rooney, and this is Taylor Bradley.
Hey, y'all.
And we have thrived in chaos and
turned it into an art form.
So, Taylor, what are we doing here today?
We're here to give you a raw, under
the hood view of all things recruiting.
And finally, give credit where credit is
due to a long underrated industry that's
full of quote unquote experts.
All right, well, then, let's take
this show to the road.
Hey, there, it's Brianna
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Hello. Hello. Welcome to talent. Takeover.
Unfiltered.
So we're coming to you with taking a pay cut
to take a new job or after a layoff.
What in the world is the market doing?
What should we do? What's the move?
Taylor, how are you doing? I'm doing good.
How are you?
I've had a better day.
Okay, so we're being honest.
That's our usual energy that we're probably
like, what is wrong with these broads?
But it yeah, no, it's been better.
But I'm glad we're talking about this because I feel
like there's just a lot of questions that people have.
I know I get messages, just different
questions that people have in the market.
I know you get them too with your ask
me anything tmrp, people messaging you on LinkedIn.
And it's just like, what the fuck is
going on and how do people respond?
And so I think we should just talk about it,
the different trends and stuff that we're seeing with people.
And then specifically, like, questions, how
do you respond to certain situations?
So in this case, like you said, taking a pay
cut to take a new job offer after a layoff
in a market like this, is this the move?
And so what we're talking about and there's a couple
of different categories of, like, people that have maybe been
laid off and they stayed through COVID times or a
really tumultuous market and didn't leave whenever.
This is specific.
To recruiters, didn't leave whenever the salaries were like
400k or just these crazy, abnormal salaries that we
saw in the market, but just were steady, at
ease, consistent, had this job adjusted their way of
life to a comp that they're used to making.
And so I've had people ask me, what are you seeing?
What do you think about the market?
Do you think that it's worth kind of holding out
and waiting for a job that is comparable to what
you were at both job title and pay level?
Or is this the type of market that you
just need to take what you can get and
start working again, whether that's driving for Uber, whatever
that is, whatever that looks like.
And so I think that's the conversation
here is going, should they do that?
And keeping in mind that these are people that
don't like to be job hoppy or leave.
And so if they did accept something are going to be
looking for something that's going to get them back to where
they were but don't want to be job hobby from an
employer perspective like want to do right by their employer if
they accepted a job that was maybe at a lower level
both salary and job title than they're used to.
And so I think these are all fair questions.
I don't necessarily have the answer to them,
but I think we should talk about it.
Yeah, I think we're still seeing the
side effects of the Horrid COVID.
I feel like we're not supposed to
say the c word anymore, right? Different. C word.
Different.
But honestly, I think that it just took a long time,
depending on what market you were in, to hit you.
But I think what was interesting, what came after that, is
that we started to pay more attention to our mental well
being and think about, what do we want to do?
What are we happy doing?
But I will say, like anyone that has gone
through therapy, whether or not you're in the beginning
of the journey or you've been in it, it
gets worse before it gets better.
So I think when you start to kind of
sit down and be like, shit, here I am.
Whether or not you're laid off or you
decided you just don't like what you're doing
anymore and you start looking around, I do
think that you should take something now.
But I'm going to preface it with
this is all, like, completely personal.
So how long can you go without
making a certain amount of money?
So could you actually take a break and breathe?
Or is that break going to
cause some turmoil in the house?
Is it going to cause financial strain?
Because I got to tell you, financial strain
is the worst goddamn strain in the universe. The worst.
So for me, if I could go bartend and I go
to bartend, because obviously that's what I used to do before
obviously that's what I used to do before recruiting.
I think, could I go bartend and pay my bills and still see
my kids and do all those things that I need to do?
Could I go do that for a while
before I got back on my feet? Could I do that?
Could I look myself in the mirror?
Is that okay for me?
And my answer is yes, it is.
Because what's worse for me is not working, is because
you get in this another bad word, the D word,
the desperate, the desperado, and you have this mental shift
that's really fucking hard to get out of.
Yeah, well, and I think in this market, too, the
other caveat to factor into this is you can't possibly
factor in or anticipate when you'll find another job again.
And so, like, holding out for something better
and better and better is what's really like.
I get nervous for people that do that because what
I'm hearing is that there may not be a shift
in this market in a positive direction to, like, 2025.
And so I think if you're holding out for something, you
could end up being one of those people that we see
on LinkedIn and bless their heart, and I truly mean that.
That's eight, nine months without a job
that has gone through 50, 60 interviews.
I see those posts almost daily, as I'm sure
you do too, and with people with amazing backgrounds.
And so there's not really like that's another thing.
There's no profile of person
that's impacted by this market.
I mean, everybody that I know to
a certain extent has been impacted.
Now, what extent and what that looks like,
whether that's they take on more because other
people were let go, it's affected everybody here.
So I think that everybody in this market.
So I feel like that is really important,
is to just know what's best for you.
So I think that's what we're talking about here.
There's no real right or wrong answer, but you never
know when the market is going to come back.
So you've got to do what's best for you.
And I totally understand the thought process people have
of, like, you don't want to seem flaky.
You don't want to take a job where you go
through training, you've onboarded your learning curve three months, and
then you leave because you get a job that is
more aligned with what your entire background or career is.
But you have to do what's best for you.
I feel like that's kind of like the moral of all
of this, is you have to do what's best for you.
As much as I would love to be able
to tell people, yeah, take a month, take two
months off, like you said, it's dependent upon their
situation to focus on their mental health.
But you could have every expectation that you're going
to take a month or two off, then start
your job search, and it's a difficult search, and
then you're unemployed for six months.
And so I think, really, there's no
way you can plan around this stuff.
It kind of reminds me of, like, pregnancy, right, is
that people can try to plan when they want to
get pregnant, sure, but you never really know what your
journey is going to be, how easy that's going to
be for you, what's going to happen.
You can only plan it to a certain extent.
And so I think that everybody's got
to do what's best for you.
But I would recommend, if you get an offer from
a great company with great benefits, even though it may
not be where you want to be or where you're
used to being, as long as it's a good job,
I think anybody should take it.
I don't think that's my biggest takeaway from this is
like, don't hold out for something better right now.
Do what you need to do.
Because the people that I know that have held
out I was going to say hold it out. That's not a word.
Held out better.
They're still struggling now.
Six months, nine months unemployed. Okay.
So then on the flip side and from, I guess, a
company's perspective and how someone handle this, would you tell the
company that again, that has the pay that's good and feels
stable and whatever box is checking for you, would you tell
them that you're going to keep looking?
Would you tell them this isn't your
forever how do you line that up?
Yeah, and that's where it's like I probably wouldn't
advertise it, but I think those conversations are going
to happen, I have to imagine organically.
So if you start a conversation, if a recruiter reaches out
to you about a job, or if you apply for your
job, that may or may not have the comp listed.
But I feel like those
comp conversations happen pretty quickly.
And so I think that that's a
fair question for recruiters to ask.
I don't know what I would do in
that situation, because obviously it would do you
a disservice in getting that job. 100%? Yeah. No, 100%.
And I'm thinking about that too,
and I'm like, you know what?
I thought about this when I started my
own business, and now that as I mentor
business owners, you have to do everything right.
So if I'm going to be a janitor, I'm going
to be the best goddamn janitor you've ever seen.
And so I think that that's kind of the mentality
that you have to have, that if you're willing to
sign up for something that, again, is out of scope
or however you feel like your level is at right,
then you just be like, the absolute best.
Because I would still want a recommendation,
I would still want a referral.
And then I think what's really important here is to
seek, like, you might be here in this moment, but
there are so many opportunities, perhaps even in the company
that you're at, and it doesn't matter where you started,
maybe down the road like, hey, you know what?
I really wanted to do this.
And in a few months, you can
now have that ability to do it.
So I think that my recommendation.
What I would do is if I'm going to do
something out of scope, I'm going to, one, be badass
at it, but I'm, two, going to keep making sure
that I am bringing the most ROI to that company,
because I think that's how you pay it forward.
I think that's good karma.
And I would want someone to
treat my business like that.
So it's like the retention when people leave,
it costs businesses quite a lot of money
that I don't think we talk enough about.
So I would want to make sure that I'm at
least setting up a company the best I can and
that I can leave with the high head.
Yeah, I think that's what you said,
and I was writing down something.
I think that's a different situation
where you can be honest.
So going back to what you asked
me, would I tell the employer?
I think if you're doing a job, you're working
for a company internally, and there are things that
are outside of the scope of what your role?
Has been or what you like to do or want to do
or what you were hired to do that you're taking on, whether
that's with a pay cut or not, that you're taking on.
I think it's fair to say, like, hey, when
things change, I'd like to go back to doing
X or whatever, like, happy to do this now.
So I think that is where you can be honest and
I think that any employer would appreciate, I'm happy to lean
in here and do whatever it is if it's usually recruiting,
but you're going to go over here and do marketing stuff
like whatever that looks like for you.
I think it's fair to be honest with your current
employer that, yes, hey, I'm happy to help do this,
but this is not something that I want to do
long term or want to do forever.
Even if I do really well at it or I
don't, I want to go back to doing X.
I think there you could have because you're
already working there internally, you can be more
honest, you can have those conversations.
But I definitely think if you were honest in
the interview process with that, I think it would
impact your chances of getting the job.
However, I would say that I'm sure most
recruiters, because that's just what we do know.
That if somebody is used to making a comp pay
level at XYZ and they're taking 100k less, 75k less,
whatever it is, they may not stay a while because
you have to factor in like we always think about
it when we send candidates over, right?
If we send somebody that is 50, 60, $75,000
higher than what they're willing to pay on their
max, shouldn't even send that person because it's not
like we're talking a couple of $1,000 here.
It's like that amount of money
will change your way of life. Exactly.
So I think it's definitely probably the norm
to assume they're going to be seeking something
else out while they take this role.
Or the way to be honest about it, I could say
is like, hey, I'm really looking for something that's going to
be at this, but I'd be happy to help you guys
out from a contract basis until I can find something else.
So I think that's another way.
Yeah, that's definitely a good one,
but yeah, I agree with you.
When we're interviewing, there's only so much honesty, unfortunately,
that goes through there and on the other side,
the company is only so honest as well.
And so I think you have to kind of take
that, look, I'm going to do the best I can,
my integrity is going to be really high.
But at the end of the day, the company
has to do what's right for them and the
person has to do right for them.
And I think that that's even where you
started this conversation in the beginning, is you
got to do what's right for you.
Like at the end of the day, you
have to do what's right for you.
And does it feel shitty sometimes?
I mean, think about the people that accept jobs
and don't show up or are there for like
a month, you know what I mean?
Because they were waiting for
some offer somewhere else.
Is it fucking shitty? Yeah.
But guess what, you have to do what you have to do.
And I know being a business owner for so long,
I've had the hard conversations on the other side, right?
I've had people come to me in turmoil and feeling
really bad and it's like I can't get mad.
Can I be disappointed?
Fuck yeah, I can be disappointed.
Can I be bummed?
Yes, absolutely.
But at the end of the day, they're human
beings and I will say and I don't know
if I've always been like this, be very honest.
I feel like once I had kids, I
really put life into a different perspective.
I was like, oh, okay, you do you.
It's always, oh, you do you.
I think before I had kids and I don't know
if our listeners can relate, anyone that does not have
kids now I would imagine has a different perspective.
But yeah, now it's like, hey, do what you need to,
like do what pays the bills, do what keeps you happy.
I think know we go to Disneyland a lot.
I'm like, I'm going to do what makes
me go into Disneyland with my kids.
And that's what you have to do because time is short.
But going back to the desperado of it,
you just don't want to go there.
I think of the strongest minds in
the universe right when you are low.
I mean there are so many studies that show this.
I have definitely been low in life.
Often I feel like I've had a little bit of a
roller coaster lately, but it's fucking hard to get back up.
It is.
So it's like you don't want to go there and
so you can't wait like the six and nine months
to find something again unless you have saved for it.
But on the opposite side, do you really want
to blow your savings looking for a job?
I mean, probably not. Yeah. Wow.
I mean it's so relatable and it's like one that's like
I feel like heavy on my heart to talk about because
I know so many people are talking about this and affected
by this and are just like, what do I do?
And have a lot of integrity as far as like I
don't want to just up and quit on an employer if
I start a new job, but it's not my job that
I can see myself doing forever, you know what I mean?
I don't know.
I think you get to our age.
Oldest shit is what I feel.
Yeah, you're just like, you know what you
want and you know what you don't.
But you also have that. And I completely agree.
It started after I had kids.
You have that also separate
mentality that overdrives the others.
That is like, I'll do anything to take care
of my family, like anything I have to do.
But is that going to be the
key to my happiness long term?
Probably not.
Yeah, no, you have to course
correct, I think, rather quickly.
And I think even on the opposite side,
I think about lowering prices, for example.
So again, back to the people that
were helping start their own agencies, they're
like, do I just drop my prices?
Do I just come in like half the price
and just kind of grab up all of that?
Now, here's the thing.
It's going to sound very like I'm contradicting
myself, but I'm going to say no.
I'm going to say, do we drop it
a little bit due to the market?
Yes, that's a market correction.
But to drop it all the way down
to desperate level, where now you're discounting your
actual service, like significantly, even lower than market,
I think that's a problem because that's going
to set you up for a different mindset.
That, again, I think is really hard to come back at.
So a little course correction drop. Absolutely.
But like, dirt level probably hard to come back from.
True.
But on the flip side of that,
what if you just need a win?
Yeah, that too.
What if you're just like, I just
need a w, whatever that looks like.
Yeah, well, see, then again, it goes
back to the mindset of things.
So, yeah, if there has been no wins and you're like,
fuck someone, sign up for something 100%, you take that.
But I don't think it should be
then that's your thought process moving forward.
That's your price.
Yeah, that's not your price.
That's just like, hey, right now I got to do this.
I mean, I think about when I first
started Trulia, which everyone knows Trulia, right?
Fucking massive.
They were one of my very first clients and I was
used to getting paid at that time in the market.
The market was really good and so we were charging
like 25% to 30% of the first year salary.
But I just started on my own and it was Trulia,
so it was a really cool brand and they're like, well,
you can do it for five k a placement.
I was like, five k at placement,
that was so that was insulting, right?
But at the time of my career, not only was I, like,
what, 24 years old, but also I had to prove myself.
I had bills to pay, I was my
own boss, like all those things, right?
So it's like, I had to do what I had to
do and I took that and I made three placements. 15k.
Fucking crazy.
When it's somewhere else, that's like 90K.
So I left a significant amount on the table.
But guess what, it was business and it snowballed for
me because, like you said, it gave me a w.
It gave me the win. Yeah.
So I wasn't sending five K off to every other company
because, oh, well, Trulia is only paying me five k.
It was the exception to the rule, not the rule. Yeah.
I think we're going into something different, too,
that you got my wheels going over here.
Of how much of a mental and mind fuck this can be
to take what you feel is a step back, how hard that
is for people to take a step back, even if it's just
a moment, like taking a step back to work on roles.
When you've been making XYZ comp exact
scenario you just outlined, I think it's
a really humbling experience for people.
And it's also really hard I don't want to
downplay how hard that is for people to feel
like you're taking a step back in your career.
If you're really passionate about
your career, that's really hard.
If most of your defining moments come from your career
versus anything else, to feel like you're taking a step
back, I feel like, can be really hard for people.
So the mental journey, I feel like we
should have a whole episode just on that.
That the mental journey and the highs and
lows of what you need to do.
Everybody knows what's best for them. Each of us know.
Only we know.
But I think there's something to be said for
getting wins, but I think there's something else to
be said for maintaining a certain amount of integrity
with as far as your pricing is going to
go for certain people and certain things.
Like, I could argue both sides of
every single thing we're talking about.
And that's what I'm saying.
It's just such a hard I almost don't even
have the words because it's such a hard situation
for people to be in, and we know so
many people that are in this situation right now.
I also think it's the industry, too, right?
I come in with a text lens
when it comes to software engineering, right?
These people are getting paid for a very long time.
I mean, on a low 150, very low, right?
And then it's more up to like 300 a year.
And so I've recently had some staff level, which
is the tippety top right, of an individual contributor.
And he's like, hey, I'm making 275.
I'm like, you're great on paper.
I know you personally.
I know what companies you come from.
So I was like, I'm excited to pitch this guy, right?
And so I go and do my homework.
I go see what companies are going to
be great for him within his salary range,
right, and all of his little requirements.
And I had to go back to him.
I'm like, I'm sorry your comp is high.
This is just not what the market is right now.
And I'm not saying that you're not worth it.
I'm sure you're worth every goddamn penny.
But unfortunately, the market is not saying that.
And so you have to take a massive pay cut.
And I'm talking massive pay cut.
I'm talking like it was more of like 220 was
probably the highest that I was seeing from two.
And so that's significant.
And so he's like, Well, I don't want to stay here.
I'm like, well, then you got to take a pay cut.
It's a give and take anyways.
So he's like, okay, yeah, just
get me a good environment.
So then we start to think and
again, this is probably a different conversation.
So it's like, give me a good environment,
give me a good boss, give me people
will take massive pay cuts for that shit.
And I don't think companies I don't know
why I'm getting the money chills right now
because it's like talking about pay cuts.
I've never gotten the money
chills talking about pay cuts.
But it's like companies like, wake the fuck up.
We're not still doing enough when it comes to how
we treat people, how we talk about it, what tools
we give them to succeed, all of that shit.
That's the stuff people are going to I don't know
why I think of Krispy Kremes because I don't even
like donuts, but I think about these long ass line
of people just waiting to get this one thing.
But that's what it would be for
a company that actually does things right. Yeah.
And then whenever there is these ebbs and flows in
the market, they don't have to worry about losing their
employees to somebody else who's going to pay more.
Because at the end of the day,
they value their culture, their environment, their
boss, all of these things more.
Yeah, completely agree with that.
Well, I think we should definitely have another
one that's just all about the mental health
journey of being laid off or looking for
a job or just surviving in this market.
Maybe that's what we'll call it,
like surviving in this market. Yeah.
Well, we do have for our
listeners something to look forward to.
We're going to have a guest on that
is going to talk about Never Search alone.
It is a book, so Jess, please put that
in the notes for them to check out.
But it's essentially like how you network and find
your great job and it's not from applying.
So I think this all kind of goes hand in hand.
It's like, how do we find the job that we want to find?
Or how do we find a job that we need
right now and not have to feel so heavy?
Because you could look on indeed right now.
This is mind boggling to me.
It was a financial startup, actually, I
guess they're not a startup now.
They have like 1000 people, but they have 1500
to 2500 applications for every job that they have
posted and they have like 50 jobs.
I'm thinking to myself, it's kind of depressing.
Looking at that is depressing.
For so many different reasons.
I won't even tangent on that one.
But yeah, so there's so many facets, I think,
to this and to where we are in the
market that we absolutely have to dig here.
Mindset 100%. Yeah. Okay.
I'm going to leave them with the broke to boss Tip and
then we're definitely going to add on to one of those.
So broke to boss Tip is, and we've already touched
on it is know your worth, but also be smart.
So do what you have to do to
take care of yourself and your family.
And so I think that's like, people that reach out to me
and ask me this question or ask me questions about should I
do this or like I can't give you the answer.
Brianna can't give you the answer.
Everybody's got to do what's right for themselves.
But if the question is about the
market, just know we don't see.
And I'm not trying to be negative,
Nancy, I'm trying to be realistic.
Rhonda we don't see a change a shift
right now or in the near future.
I would say that everything I'm reading is 2025.
Again, that's just what I'm reading.
So do what you have to do to take care of
yourself, like whatever that looks like bartend, drive for Uber, go
work in any kind of other job, like whatever that is.
But I think people should to definitely in this
market do what they have to do to take
care of themselves, but also know their worth.
Be smart.
Be smart.
Love it.
That was heavy one.
It is a heavy one.
Thank you all for listening.
We'll see you next Tuesday. Thanks, y'all.