For Real: Life, Leadership, & Unlearning

Ever feel like your business has taken on a life of its own—and you’re not sure if it still fits the version of success you’re chasing?

You’re not alone.

In today’s episode, Megan Gillikin sits down with award-winning photographer, educator, and content creator Vanessa Joy, whose two-decade career has evolved from darkrooms to YouTube stardom and now… clean water wells in Kenya.

This one’s about growth. But not the “scale at all costs” kind. We're talking about soulful evolution—the kind that happens when you realize you’ve built something great… but it’s time for something different.

Vanessa shares how to know when you’re scaling or spiraling, the not-so-glamorous reality of launching a passion project, and how to reconnect with what you actually want. (Oh, and she also talks about buying a seven-foot-tall printer—so buckle up.)

Whether you're in burnout, busy mode, or just feeling the pull to pivot, this episode is your reminder: you're allowed to grow beyond the box you built.

What You’ll Learn in This Episode:
✅ How to recognize when you’ve outgrown your business
✅ The difference between shiny object syndrome and soul-led decisions
✅ Why fear doesn’t mean stop—it just means be brave
✅ What it really looks like to pursue a big, messy dream (like starting a nonprofit)
✅ How to create space for rest—even in the busiest seasons
✅ Why building long-term relationships is your best marketing strategy
✅ The beauty of attracting the right clients (and repelling the wrong ones)

Support Vanessa’s Clean Water Project
Vanessa is raising funds to build clean water wells in Kenya through her limited-edition photo print sales.
Timestamps:
00:00 – When growth feels like a wall
03:19 – Overwhelm, marketing, and measuring what actually matters
07:59 – Gut checks vs shiny objects
10:07 – The messy middle of launching a nonprofit
16:44 – Pouring into yourself when you're pouring into everyone else
19:08 – Saying no and making your own schedule
22:24 – Relationships: the real business growth strategy
28:27 – Client red flags, repelling & attracting
30:21 – Growing beyond what used to work
31:40 – Final takeaway: “Be afraid—but do it anyway”


Today's episode is brought to you by The Planner's Vault. The doors are currently closed for The Planner's Vault, but join the wait list now so you can be the first to know when the doors re-open.

Weddings for Real on Social Media:
Instagram: @weddingsforreal
Facebook: @weddingsforreal
twitter: @weddingsforreal

Hosted by Megan Gillikin, Weddings for Real is presented by The Planner's Vault, and is produced by Walk West.

Creators and Guests

Host
Megan Gillikin
Wedding Industry Coach + Founder of The Planner's Vault
Producer
Jason Gillikin
CEO and Executive Producer at Earfluence

What is For Real: Life, Leadership, & Unlearning?

For Real is a top 1% podcast for high-achievers who look successful on paper but feel like they’re one group text away from burning it all down. Hosted by Megan Gillikin - serial entrepreneur, business coach, keynote speaker, and recovering people pleaser - this show explores burnout, boundaries, identity shifts, and the brave act of unlearning who you thought you had to be.

With unfiltered conversations, “I thought it was just me” moments, and just enough humor to keep it from feeling like group therapy, For Real is your permission slip to evolve.

Formerly Weddings for Real - and glow-ups look good on us.

00:00:00 - Megan Gillikin
Hey friends, you're listening to episode 312 of the podcast and I'm your host, Megan Gillikin. You know that moment in business when you pause and think, okay, I've built something, but what's next? That's the sweet spot and the scary spot of growth. It's where so many small business owners hit a wall. Not because they're doing anything wrong, but because they've grown beyond what they originally built. And now it's time to evolve. If you've ever felt like you've outgrown your business or you're questioning what your next chapter could look like, this conversation is going to feel like a sigh of relief. Hey there. I'm Megan Gilliken and this podcast is for fellow wedding pros that know what it really takes to thrive as a professional in the wedding industry. Because it's not what they show you in the movies. Spoiler alert. It takes more than a wave of a wand or toss of confetti to take someone's special day from big idea to big success. As for me, I recently sold my luxury wedding planning business and now I'm a business coach, international speaker, online educator, number one cheerleader of wedding pros, and a mom of three. This podcast is a wedding professional safe space to laugh and dish about the glitz, the not so glam, and all things weddings. For real. Today, I'm joined by Vanessa Joy, an award winning photographer, educator, speaker and content creator with over 200,000 YouTube subscribers and 125,000 Instagram followers. And she spent two decades evolving her brand from film photography in the darkroom to leading business education for creatives across the globe. In this episode, we talk about what evolution really looks like, both personally and professionally. We also cover the difference between shiny object syndrome and soul led growth. You'll hear us dive into how to know if you're scaling or spiraling, and finally, how to pour into yourself when you've been pouring into everyone else instead. So if you're craving more clarity, more meaning, and just more you in your business, let's let this be a reminder that you're allowed to grow beyond the version of success you once chased. Because sometimes the head down in the work creative part of you gets in the way of the visionary CEO part of you.

00:02:27 - Vanessa Joy
You have to balance where are we going from here? With how do we sustain where we are right? That's always the balance. And if you don't have the where do we go from here? You're never going to grow. You're going to get stagnant and complacent. And that's no place that you want to be as a business owner. But if you don't have the how do we sustain where we are? Then you run the risk of imploding. And that probably sums up everyone's business problems right there. People bring themselves to those two brinks, right? Either they're stagnant and then they start getting left behind and they're not getting leads maybe. Or they feel like their business is not fresh or new. Or they get to the place where they're doing really well at that part and then they start to implode. They're not getting back to clients when they need to. They can't even answer leads as fast as they would like to and deliver products. That always tends to be the thing that gets on the back burner. Or your personal life gets put on the back burner.

00:03:19 - Megan Gillikin
Yeah. And I think about the massive social media following that you've built, like the brand that you've built. I have to also reflect on how much the industry and just marketing as a whole has changed over time, right? Oh, yes. Something else that I hear so often from small business owners is this crushing sense of overwhelm, like all the things that they're supposed to be doing. And I think a lot of the marketing right now is if your business isn't X, you are failing. If you don't have this one product, then you will never reach this level of success. And I find that a lot of the marketing that is out there for business owners is that fear based, like that lack. And we're also inundated with this idea of there's one thing missing that is going to get you to that next level. Do you see that as well? And how do you coach your clients through that?

00:04:19 - Vanessa Joy
You know, and I can't fault people. Like, we all get the Instagram ads, right? We all get the thing where someone's holding this magic wand and they're the ones that can save us from whatever situation that we're in right now. And I can't fault those people because human nature does respond to fear. And human nature is going to look for not even necessarily the pain point, but we're going to look for the thing that seems to be the solution to our problems. That's natural. So I can't fault the people who are advertising in that way. But you have to have a discerning eye and you hit this before, like, before we would measure our business by like one KPI. Are we making money Are we hitting our goals? And then I've been in every evolution of small business at this point to I was working for someone else at the time, when in order to have a successful business, you just had to have the biggest ad in the Yellow Pages. Right, man. Which that's how it was. But that was our KPI. And maybe a little bit of a comparison game with who did have the biggest ad in the yellow pig. Who had the most maybe weddings per year? Cause I was in the wedding industry. So that was like, that was it. But then social media came, and now, okay, our KPIs have shifted. It's no, do we have that many followers or engagement or likes or leads or publications? And it's just one thing after another with, what does this person have that I'm failing at? What? And I think what we need to do is we need to, like, take it down. Take it back down to what actually matters. Do publications, for example, some public PR recognition. Does that matter? You know what? Maybe it'll help. But what's the actual thing that we're trying to measure? Leads, Right. Are we getting the booking? And if we're not getting the booking, then yeah, sure, maybe getting some PR is something that we could do in order to raise that. So we have to, like, take it down a little bit. Take it down to what actually matters. And don't let everything else decide for you what matters. Every Instagram ad does not necessarily have the answer for you.

00:06:27 - Megan Gillikin
Yeah, it's so true. And I think a point that you made about the Yellow Pages is that where we are right now, like, we have access to so much more information. And I think that is part of the overwhelm. Right? Like, we know what people are doing in other parts of the world, in other parts of the country. We can compare ourselves to not only just like a local base or a local market or local competition, but, like, worldwide competition. And if you are constantly absorbing the message that, ooh, there's this next level of success, or there's this one program or there's this one person that I'm chasing, you're always going to have this deep inner sense of not being good enough. I'm curious for you, and also for just talking about small business owners as a whole, like, something that keeps coming back to me is the idea of being grounded in what you want, what your version of success looks like so that you don't get caught up in that. That shiny object syndrome of, okay, now I'm chasing this next thing. And so Vanessa is someone that I look at and I admire and I'm like, wow, look at this evolution that you've had. How do you discern and. Or how might you give advice to someone listening to this of what is the gut check of this is my next move versus that rumbling of shiny object syndrome? And maybe I should be chasing this.

00:07:59 - Vanessa Joy
Yeah, I like to look at it. When I look at some shiny objects, I look at it and say, is it this something that is my responsibility to learn, for example, like to update myself on, to update my product or whatever it is like. Or is it just something that's nice to have if I don't do this, if I don't get up to date, let's just say on TikTok, for example, am I irresponsible as a business owner for having a hole in my business knowledge and application? Or is that something that I don't necessarily need? So I look at it that way. But then I also, I like to look at it as going back to core values. And I actually really dislike the concept of core values in a mission statement, I think, because I just have it. It's so kitschy, right? But when it comes down to it, at the end of the day, at the end of your life, everybody always says, nobody cares. Like laying on their deathbed, oh, wow, I should have made more money. Right? I should have spent more time with friends and family or done some more of the things on my bucket list. So if you think about that now, there's gonna be less actual regret later. So anything shiny new that comes, any new opportunity, is this going to help me with my actual goals in life? Not my business goals, my goals as a human being and what I want my life to look like. And let's be real, I don't actually listen to that sage advice myself all the time. Sometimes I'm just like, no, this sounds fun. Let's do this now.

00:09:23 - Megan Gillikin
Oh, my gosh. I think that's the life of being visionary, for sure. I think so. So many times we are driven by these big ideas, and they are oftentimes incredible ideas. But then sometimes we get in that mode of, okay, what's the next thing? What is the next thing that I'm creating or building? Is there a moment that you can reflect on in your career where you were in that, like, warp speed mode and you made a choice and it. It didn't work out, or you went after something and it didn't evolve the way that you thought it would? And how do you view that maybe now versus how you viewed it then.

00:10:02 - Vanessa Joy
I don't have a now and then. Cause I think I'm going through that right now.

00:10:06 - Megan Gillikin
Tell me more. Tell me more.

00:10:07 - Vanessa Joy
We'll have to. We'll have to wrap this up in six months. So going back to a core value, something that I've always wanted to do since as long as I can remember. My. My parents, for example, always supported World Vision Kids. And you would get this holiday catalog and you would get to choose something to buy for these kids. And it was like, when you're a kid, it was really fun. It was like, oh, buy them bunnies or goats they can milk or like chickens that can lay eggs. And it was always fun. But the thing that always caught my eye was like, you can build a well for clean water access, which is a huge problem. A thousand kids under the age of five die every day from problems not having clean water. And that's just heinous for me, if nothing angers me more than children hurting. So I've always wanted to build a well. I went to Kenya a few months ago, and I actually finally got to see firsthand the reality of that. And you would think I would have broken down in tears. But they're so happy and joyous and lovely that thankfully I didn't, because that would have been embarrassing. But I came back and I'm like, okay, now's the time to do something about this. So a few weeks ago, I started a nonprofit. And I'm in the middle of running. And in my head, it only goes until May 12, when you can purchase basically, photos that I took of wildlife and landscapes while I was in Kenya and all of those purchases. And you could just direct, directly donate. Some people do that as little as 10 bucks. But I am going to print myself up to 40 by 60 images in my home in order to do this. And sitting right now in my garage is a printer that's literally seven feet tall. Thankfully, when I get it out of the box and off of the crate forklift thing, it was delivered on. It won't be that big. It will fit in my office. But I'm in the middle of that right now because I'm like, okay, I'm going to do this, and I'm going to launch this. And I'm also matching my. The first $15,000 raised with my own money so that at a minimum, hopefully we'll get to 15,000 and then that'll build two wells. But I have to say, like, I got ready for it. I'm launching, I'm running And donations and print orders are just not as, as prevalent as I thought they would be because there's a disconnect between you've seen 700,000 commercials to Sarah McLaughlin, arms of an angel and you don't donate every single time. So I don't know why I expected my nonprofit to actually function, but I'm kind of, I'm in the middle of that right now where it's okay, this might actually fail and I might have this massive printer that I end up printing five photos. Awesome.

00:12:42 - Megan Gillikin
Oh, man. So I have questions here and I also have perhaps a reframe of just how I'm hearing this because I'm like, man, this is incredible that you were inspired. You made this choice. This feels like a lifelong pursuit to do good and create something better in the world. And as I hear you say this, man, I feel that.

00:13:02 - Vanessa Joy
Wow.

00:13:03 - Megan Gillikin
What is it? It's the anxiety. It's the fear of, is this going to work out? But I also heard you say something when we started recording that's like when you get the goosebumps, when you get that excitement and that feeling of I should go after something. Does it have a hard deadline for you or is that a self imposed deadline of I need to get to this by this date?

00:13:23 - Vanessa Joy
Yeah, it's self imposed, sort of, because I am printing them myself so that I sign them all by hand and we're working on getting like certificates of authenticity for all of them. So that's when I had a break in my schedule. A week long break where I can learn how to print, actually print it, ship it, and make that happen. Because I travel 150 days a year, I can't just be randomly printing things at all times. So all the orders are in by May 12, so I could print them the last week of May.

00:13:52 - Megan Gillikin
Do you ever follow? And I do this sometimes for myself when I have this big idea and I have this big plan and then it just feels like I'm like white knuckling the plan to get to where it's supposed to be. Do you ever reset yourself in the view of, okay, I committed to this project, I bought this printer. The goal that I originally had may not be what it is, but there must be some reason that I made this decision and I took this action step and there might be something that comes from this that I can't even see yet. Do you ever find yourself doing that?

00:14:25 - Vanessa Joy
I mean, maybe that's not even the original goal. Yeah, it could be, but that's, that's the six months down the line, I'll have to come back. You're like, you know what I mean?

00:14:33 - Megan Gillikin
I know, right? We're gonna have to do the part two.

00:14:35 - Vanessa Joy
Yeah. How did I handle this potential failure? In the meantime, everyone else can go if you just DM me the words Prince for wonder on Instagram. I'm sure you have show notes, but that's how you get to the website.

00:14:47 - Megan Gillikin
Yeah, yeah, we're definitely going to put that in the show notes. And I think it's an amazing cause. And I also think one of the things to factor in that I'm seeing right now is like, the world feels like it's on fire.

00:14:58 - Vanessa Joy
Right.

00:14:59 - Megan Gillikin
Like, especially if I think everyone's brains are sinking into, myself included. I'm having to pull myself out of it. But, like, the survival mode and that, what's coming for us next? And so I hate. That's what might make it hard for people to get into the safety of, oh, what an amazing cause. And this is something that is an easy way to do good in the world right now, because I think people are in spiral mode.

00:15:26 - Vanessa Joy
Think about that. When it comes to running a business, I feel like that's one of a reason or excuse, right? It could be. It could end up being either one of them. Like, when we see our business is not doing as well, we. We can blame it on the world. Right. We can blame it on. Okay, maybe it's because there are too many young people that are coming up. And by the way, that's something that everyone, even, you know, people that are 26 years old running businesses, they get scared of the young people that are college kids that are coming out of college and being that that's never going away.

00:15:55 - Megan Gillikin
That's never going.

00:15:56 - Vanessa Joy
Never going away. Is it the world? Is it a recession or a threat of a recession and all of those different things. So it's definitely a huge thing we have to deal with as business owners, regardless of whether it's a nonprofit or not.

00:16:10 - Megan Gillikin
Yeah. Oh, my gosh. Here's a question for you in that realm as we're talking about it, because I know you are a longtime business owner, a thought leader, a mom. You mentioned you're traveling 150 days out of the year. You are pouring into so many other people. What does it look like to find safety and pour into yourself? Or is that not even part of the equation at this point? Because I will. Honestly, I know there are seasons where, like, we just. That's not a thing. And we are functional, functioning as we can to get through the Day.

00:16:44 - Vanessa Joy
Last year, I actually took a vacation by myself. Just two days. Just like a little thank you to my husband who was like, wow, Vanessa, on top of the 148 days away, you want, you want to spend three more all by yourself for vacation? Thanks. But he said yes because he knows how hard I work and, and that I am the breadwinner, not that he doesn't work. He makes a great living. That's always been on my shoulders. And it's, you know, what it weighs. So I don't do that often. It's the first time I ever did that. But it's the little things for me. For example, like Thursday, I'm just gonna take off half the day Thursday and get a massage, get. Just sit at a coffee shop. And the truth is, I might even work. But to me, when there's nothing in my calendar, there's a freedom in that.

00:17:27 - Megan Gillikin
Yeah, yeah. The white space. I like to do that too. It's like the little surprises of blocking out your calendar and being like, it's not a packed day. I have this time to do what I want. And you're right. Maybe it is that I wanna work. Maybe it's that I want to do something completely different, but having the ability. And I think that's one of the parts that we often forget about when we talk about entrepreneurship. Right? Like, we talk about the hard parts of it. We talk about that we're on 24 7. We talk about the fact that we never stop thinking about our business and we have to worry about things and wear different hats that someone in a corporate position may not have to think about. But we also get to say, I'm going to go get a massage in the middle of the day on a Thursday. Or I'm going to be there for my kids school award celebration. And I don't have to put a note in slack to let my boss know. These are the things that, like, we get to do. And we have to remember the beauty of why we got into entrepreneurship because the heavy is ever present.

00:18:25 - Vanessa Joy
I think we also have to remember that we actually do make our own schedules in a lot of ways. For example, I'm supposed to be photographing the Kansas City Royals second week in May. And I was just told that the Mother's Day tea at school is when I'm gonna be away. And I was like, you know what? I do make my own schedule and I'm changing my whole trip so that I can come back for Mother's Day tea. And it thankfully it's a Relationship where I can do that and I can. That's fine. But it would've been very easy for me to be like, nope, I committed to this. I'm doing this. I'm like, you know what? No. I make my own schedule and I don't have to necessarily. It's not a paid thing, It's a PR thing. You know what? I can adjust this. Yeah.

00:19:08 - Megan Gillikin
What a good reminder that although things may feel set in stone when you actually pull back the lens. Yeah. We get to make choices. We get to say no. We get to reschedule things and we don't have to ask for permission.

00:19:23 - Vanessa Joy
Yeah. Yeah. Just have to maintain relationships. I think that's probably the biggest goal. Anytime that you have to change something, it's about maintaining the relationship.

00:19:31 - Megan Gillikin
Yeah. Speaking of relationships, when you think about the longevity of your business and your career and everything that's gone into building the brand that you have, I have to think that relationships have been one of the key ingredients to that. Would you agree? And is there anything else that you see as this is why I have this business and it is so successful, it's 100% relationships.

00:19:58 - Vanessa Joy
Yeah. Do I get the cold lead? I can't even say because there's really outside of cold traffic, which maybe is like search engine optimization heads. Everything's relationships ever. Like word of mouth. Anytime someone talks about you, anytime you're in a place and having a conversation and some opportunity arises, it's because of whatever relationship it took to get you there. And it's. Especially if you talk about the wedding industry. It can be disheartening. Right. But it's. Maybe you're not in that particular circle that you want to get into, but you can make your own circle. And then there's other people that are going to want to get into your circle and hopefully you're welcoming. But also you've spent years cultivating relationships and there's nothing wrong with that. I think that's one of the biggest parts of business, marketing wise, that people don't spend enough time on because it's not an immediate gratification. Talking about the magic wand that we see on Instagram, one of the things that I teach my business students is I am not teaching you a get rich quick scheme. You did not respond to any ad that said I had a magic wand. I am teaching you how to build a long term sustainable business. And the key part of that is building relationships. And you will not see the results of that maybe for five years. Like, sometimes you see some right away, sometimes you see some five years I had the greatest example of this. So yeah, some of the somebody that I spoke with that's not the most easy person to get along with. We'll just say he's a YouTube personality, he's just not. He's lovely, great heart. But not everybody gets along with him. But I became friends with him back and forth. And I think it was three years into that friendship he referred a wedding to me. Great wedding. It was photography. It was like a $25,000 wedding. And at that wedding was the owner of a boutique, very prestigious hotel in New York City. And another year later, I end up shooting for that hotel. And two years after that, my husband, who does video, is now shooting a massive centennial campaign where he's getting to potentially interview Martin Scorsese. And it just has such potential and the things that he's doing now is crazy. So it's like a threefold relationship thing where if I didn't start that relationship now six years ago, it would have never happened. And it's like it all led to incredible things.

00:22:24 - Megan Gillikin
Wow, that's such a great story. And I too, I believe so much in the power of relationships and to me that ties so nicely into what we talked about as we started this conversation because there are a million things that you can do and there are a million ways to optimize your business. But the reality is that getting rooted in the power of relationships, especially in the noisy world that we live in now where people are inundated by ads and social media and strategies and all the things like the heart of showing up and seeing someone else and being curious and not making it about yourself and just authentically caring about what that other person's experience is. Those are the seeds that you plant that grow into such strong, viable long term things versus throwing money at a potential marketing strategy that you have no idea if it's going to work or.

00:23:22 - Vanessa Joy
Not, because it's very shallow, it's not deep. And even more so now few people take the time to create deep relationships, myself included, for the record.

00:23:33 - Megan Gillikin
Yeah. And the reality is I feel like we've gotten really good at discerning when it is just for show or it's just because I know want something right. Like I get that. I get that in podcast pitches, in dms, in ways that people are building a relationship that just feels so surface level and so need based for them that I really think so many people's radars are hyper aware of that and are tuning out more and more. So to be able to get through and build an authentic relationship is. It's not easy.

00:24:08 - Vanessa Joy
No, no, it's really not. And I think you have to get off the digital side of it. It has to be in person. You have to get in the right rooms with the right people. And it's funny because conferences, for example, numbers tend to be down because you don't need them for education anymore. So a lot of conference numbers are down because of that. But I really, I think at least if people wise up, people are gonna realize, you know what? Conferences are really valuable because I'm physically in the same room with people. That has immense value.

00:24:41 - Megan Gillikin
Yeah. How do you coach your students on the power of in person? Do you help them decide, like, what are the yeses that you do because of relationships versus it has to have a paycheck assigned to it, or what are the yeses for networking events versus this is a waste of your time. Yeah.

00:25:04 - Vanessa Joy
I look at it as what rooms do we want to be in? So I have a lot of them. All of them. I encourage part of their to dos is what things can you do within your niche, like industry? And then what things can you do on the client side? What rooms? Because there's two different rooms. You want to get into the room where all your clients are, but the room where all your colleagues are as well. So I have them research it and you know, what organizations. So if you're talking about weddings, it's things like WIPA and NACE and Ilia and local even more. Like if you're a photographer, you've got the photography groups, you're a planner, you got the player groups. So what rooms can we get into? And I think all of them are worth getting into to start. Right. You have to go and see if you connect with people, see what friends you can make. But then after that you're just. How do I put it for them? I say it's like kindergarten. You're just looking for your friends. That's what I want it to be. Especially if you are in an industry where you spend time with all of these colleagues, find your friends. It's not who can give you the most business, because it doesn't matter if they give you hundreds of thousands, millions of dollars worth of business if you can't stand to be in the same room.

00:26:10 - Megan Gillikin
That should. So true.

00:26:11 - Vanessa Joy
Yes. Yeah. You have to find the people you actually like, because then naturally it's usually reciprocal in that sense. And then it's just going to be a natural relationship. You won't have to work at it.

00:26:21 - Megan Gillikin
Yeah, I love that. And I think that speaks to. That's not only just a business piece of advice, but it's a life piece of advice. Right. Who are you spending time with and who are the ones that, like, when you think about, if you were to imagine, okay, I'm going to go get coffee with this person or I'm going to spend a weekend with this person, if immediately you get this sense of dread just thinking about it, those are your friends, those people, those aren't your friends. Yeah.

00:26:45 - Vanessa Joy
And same thing with clients.

00:26:47 - Megan Gillikin
Yeah. Oh, my gosh. Same thing with clients. Have you found? This is just a total side question. In my career as a planner, there were certain clients where the red flags would be there prior to them signing the contract. But for me, I was like, you know what, if they're willing to pay X amount, maybe it's worth it. But I found that oftentimes, like, there wasn't a dollar figure that they could pay that would be worthwhile. When I dreaded every time that I opened that email or I dreaded every interaction with them, like the money at that point wasn't worth it. But I'm always curious if that's something that someone else has had a different perspective and they're able to disassociate with the relationship side of things and do their job and do it well and feel assured that it was the right move.

00:27:37 - Vanessa Joy
I can disassociate. I can still do the job. My client will have no idea that I dread opening an email from them, but that's just not healthy. Can I. I can disassociate it to the effect that it's not personally affecting me. Like, I'm not going to take it home, but I just don't want to. And I've found that I prefer the opposite. Like when I get excited for their email, I have honed down my client avatar when it comes to, like wedding photography anyway. Actually, when it comes to my business clients too, I bet I'm just. I'm so okay letting them go. But with the wedding side of things, I guess this translates to the business too. I start putting things on social media now that clearly will weed out the people I don't want and it's a little bit of eff around and find out totally okay with that at this point in my career.

00:28:27 - Megan Gillikin
I love that so much. Yeah, I love that so much. And I think that that speaks to that repel and attract. Right. Like you are bringing in the people that are like, she's my girl. I want to know more about her. I want to. In her universe. And then you have the people that maybe see what you're putting out there, and they're like, ooh, she's not for me. Great. We want that, right?

00:28:46 - Vanessa Joy
Yeah. And we're never taught. We want that in the beginning. We're taught the opposite. Get everybody in. Work as much as you can. No, you have to know how to repel as well. And I definitely do it.

00:28:56 - Megan Gillikin
I think that's. Honestly. I'm so glad that you brought that up because as we're wrapping this conversation, I want to make sure that, like, we touch on this, because I think we're not taught that. And it honestly goes against human nature. Right. Like, human nature is be part of the pack. Don't be on the outside. Because in caveman days, that meant you were not going to survive. So now we're trying to go against what we were taught and say, okay, own your authenticity. It's okay to be different. It's okay to highlight your superpowers, and it's okay to get outside the box of what people think you should be. And the reason I bring that up is do you see a problem, a common problem in the wedding industry and as just honestly, small business owners in general of, you create this business, you're trying, trying so hard to fit in. You are looking at what other people are doing package wise, you're checking out their social media, you're modeling your business after someone else, and then you maybe get a level of success and you stay stuck. I'm curious if you see that often where it's like, people have outgrown the business that they've created, yet they're too afraid to step outside of that and authentically figure out who they are and who their ideal client is. So they spend years stuck in serving the same people, offering the same things, and feeling disenchanted with their business.

00:30:21 - Vanessa Joy
That kind of brings us back full circle, right? Because we either get stuck in one or two places where we're in a place where we're growing and we're really good at that part, and we are upping our clientele or product or service and we run the risk of imploding, or we just get stuck in it. And I think a lot of the reason we get stuck in it is one, yes, it's comfortable and it's what we know and it's what we're good at, and that is good to hit repeat on. But if you're not growing, and that doesn't necessarily mean growing with industry trends. But it's just if you're not pushing yourself to the next thing, whether it's scaling, trying something new, adding a service, adding a product, you just run the risk of getting bored. Because if you're not growing because of that fear and you don't have that fear, you're not working on hard enough problems. And that's the bigger mistake. Like that. And that's a quote. I'm not that smart. That's a quote from Frank Wilskock. I believe if you're not working on hard enough problems, like that's the biggest mistake, because that's just the beginning of the end.

00:31:21 - Megan Gillikin
Yeah. So if someone is listening to this and we've covered so many great nuggets of goodness, but if someone is listening to this and they're getting to the end of this episode, is there a key takeaway or a final message that you want to leave them with?

00:31:40 - Vanessa Joy
Don't be afraid. Be afraid, but be brave. Because you can only be brave when you're actually afraid and you push past it. That's the definition of bravery. So find a place where you're scared, but you need to grow and do it anyway. Find someone to guide you, preferably, but do it anyway.

00:31:55 - Megan Gillikin
Yes. I love that so much. And speaking of, if someone wants to learn more about your education offerings or your photography, where would you like for them to come find you?

00:32:07 - Vanessa Joy
Instagram is where I hang out the most, so you can follow me there. And there's the link in bio that gets you to my education site or my wedding work if you want to see that, or even my corporate work because I do a ton of corporate work and small businesses as well as large. So Instagram is vanessajoy. V A N E S S A.

00:32:25 - Megan Gillikin
J O Y Wonderful. And we'll put the links in the show notes and tell me one more time and tell our listeners about the Africa project that you're doing for water. Yes.

00:32:37 - Vanessa Joy
So if you are on my Instagram, you can just DM me the words prints for water. Prints, like something you print out. P R I N T S not Prince, like almost to be king Prince for water. But what it is, you can donate or you can purchase the actual photographs which I will sign and personally print and deliver to you. They are only until March 12th. So I do hope you just. Even if you take a look, look around helps boost the search engine optimization. Right? Just look around, look at some of the wildlife prints. It's hopefully you enjoy just doing that and enjoying the eye candy. But if you feel so compelled. You'll see photos of the village that I visited and read more about the Clean Water Initiative that making a donation will help. And if you don't want to go on Instagram, the website is safari wildlifeandlandscapes.com.

00:33:30 - Megan Gillikin
And if they're listening to this after May 12, are they still able to donate?

00:33:36 - Vanessa Joy
You are still able to donate and I believe I will be handing over the check to build the wells sometime mid June, I believe so that will still work. And then who knows, maybe I'll be like, you know what, this did work out nice and let's do a second round.

00:33:52 - Megan Gillikin
We don't know. Let's go. I love it. Vanessa, thank you again so much for coming on the podcast and sharing your story and your wisdom as well.

00:34:00 - Vanessa Joy
Thank you.

00:34:03 - Megan Gillikin
How good was that conversation? Vanessa's honesty around fear, burnout, reinvention, and impact is a powerful reminder that you're meant to evolve, even when the path feels uncertain. She gave voice to something so many entrepreneurs quietly face, that moment when the business you once loved starts to feel like it doesn't quite fit anymore. So whether you're staring down burnout, chasing growth that no longer excites you, or you're just feeling disconnected from your why, I hope this conversation helped you feel less alone. And if Vanessa's Prints for Water initiative moved you like it did me, here's how to support her work. Head to Instagram and DM her @vanessa Joy with the words Prince P R I N T S for water or visit safariwildlifeandlandscapes.com It's a limited time effort to help fund clean water wells in Kenya, and it's such a powerful way to do some good in the world. So join me in donating today. As always, thank you so much for listening. If this episode resonated, take a screenshot and tag us at eddings4real. I love seeing what's landed for you. And if you've got 30 seconds, leaving a quick review of the podcast helps us reach more listeners who need these conversations too. Weddings For Real is hosted by me, Megan Gilligan, produced by Walk west, and brought to you by the Planners Vault, where we help creative entrepreneurs build businesses with purpose, profit, and ease. You can learn more by heading to the Planners Vault. Com or checking out the links in the show notes. That's all for today and I'll see you again soon.