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Up Your Average is the “no nonsense” podcast made for interesting people who think differently. Learn to navigate your life with unconventional wisdom by tuning in to Keith Tyner and Doug Shrieve every week.
The average cost of a lifetime of Miss Sadie right here is somewhere between $22,000 and
$60,000, which is crazy when you think about it.
Well, and like people, the expenses grow as your dog gets older.
Right.
Yeah.
Welcome to the Up Your Average podcast, where Keith and Doug give no nonsense advice to
level up your life.
So buckle up and listen closely to up your av.
Good morning, Doug.
Good morning, Caleb.
Good morning, Sadie.
Good morning.
It's uh another great day at Up Your Average.
It's another great day at Gimbal World Headquarters.
How is your guys' uh Friday going?
So far, so good.
It's great.
Here's the dog here.
Oh, yeah, our gimbal mascot.
We added a mascot here in the last few days, and Sadie is a regular here.
She
is um thrilled to join us and in I called this uh dog d dogged determination, but the idea
of a dog or a pet has really been on my mind a lot in 2026 for whatever reason.
And I've done a good amount of research about it, but I written some articles about the
idea of the reason for dogs.
Dogs are easy.
And dogs are expensive and all those things.
And I just thought we would just have a conversation about the evolution of pets and how
they really impact financial issues in a family's lives.
So um tell me, Doug, what was your first pet that you remember?
Swimming.
Swimming?
Tell me about swimming.
I won swimming at the Mitchell Elementary School, whatever.
Ping p ping pong boy.
Yeah, it was the one of those like ring toss things.
And um so yeah, swimmy the goldfish.
That was my first bet.
Did it come in a little round bowl?
Plastic, um, plastic bag.
Oh, okay.
And in ours they had a little round bowl with a lip and you threw the ping pong ball and
landed in there.
It was yours until until it found its new home in your toilet.
So Yeah, yeah.
Swimmy.
Yeah.
How how about you guys?
Mine was our uh pet dog Molly.
She was a little thing and we thought she was the cutest thing while we had her, but
looking back at pictures is like ooh she was ugly.
But she was uh she loved us, uh and just cared for us, yeah.
What kind of dog was Molly?
I have no clue.
She was a mutt.
What was she called?
She was a southern Indiana.
Peeka poo Maltese?
Yeah, it was a designer breed that that they came up with down in southern and Indiana.
I forget what it was called.
Shout out to our friends down there.
But um yeah, so we um we we got Molly because of our coworker Lynn Summers.
Lynn came in one day and brought a bunch of her sh her dog had just passed and she brought
me
a metal bowl like the one we've got one out in front of Gimbal that we share water with
our neighbors with and and she gave that to me and I told her, You can just take that on
down the road because we didn't we didn't have a pet at our house.
We had five kids.
We didn't we had a lot going on and and I I said, I don't w I don't want a dog because
it's gonna die and I don't have to deal with that with the kids.
And she said, That's the very reason you should have a dog.
And and I was like
And I realize you can ignore issues with life if you want to with your children or you can
go head on.
And so Molly was a result of that conversation with Lynn and and she was not pretty.
She was not pretty.
Yeah.
How old were you when you got Molly?
Maybe five.
I was real young.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Did your mom want a gog?
I don't think she did at first.
Yeah.
I don't yeah.
She was Molly was not only not pretty, but she was not smart.
No.
She was We we had trickle some food to her her plate.
She didn't have a snout, so we fed her on a like a small plate.
And we trickled food to the plate pretty much every meal to let her know where her food
was or that she needed to eat.
What positive traits did Molly have?
Come on.
She was a lover.
She cuddled and was right by you.
I had to give her the Heimlich once.
Like she literally is gonna die of froze.
She tried Connie dropped a like frozen chicken thing and she and got it jammed in there
and
And I was holding her upside down and shaking her and it wouldn't come out and I finally
had to give her the whoo and it came flying out and we saved her life.
But was Molly much bigger than Sadie?
She's about two thirds the size you think.
She's probably ten pounds.
wow.
Okay.
Yeah, I remember her back.
I I oh yeah.
Sadie's you're fresh in my memories.
Yeah, so so th this is an awkward subject that I want to talk about because um
It's I feel like you're talking about somebody's grandma or something, but to be objective
and talk about pets and and where they fit into really a financial plan or your resources
because it it doesn't seem like there's any correlation.
What's that?
You're one.
Yeah.
And everybody else you're you'll be so so this conversation's really good.
Yeah.
But but it takes one of you
To be able to like think through this.
Yeah, and I did.
I thought through it a lot.
And I um what I discovered um really it it filters into a lot of other financial planning
issues and and it um it's just really thought provoking.
Like a a dog,
Really the the the attraction to a dog is I think this is my opinion, you guys can tell me
what you think.
I think it is the real connection to one of the greatest ideas on the planet earth and
it's unconditional love.
And and I don't know where else you get it, do you?
Very few places.
Yeah, I mean I can get it from Connie, but essentially still we we ebb and flow if we
disagree on something.
oh
She just gives it to me completely, right?
Like and so that that's the draw to a dog, I think.
I agree.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I'm not sure what other pet does that.
I don't know that a cat does it.
I don't know.
Like a cat'll run from me or whatever.
But like the process of that is then I think what I started thinking, I was in I was in
Phoenix area over the winter and there was a window painting of Snoopy.
Mm.
And I think this is what got me fought thinking about it.
And Snoopy sat Snoopy is if for those of you that are younger than us, Snoopy was in a old
Charlie Brown cartoon and and it was a Beagle, I think.
Oh and and Snoopy was one of the main characters in the Charlie Brown um cartoon.
And Snoopy had a doghouse and stayed on top of the doghouse, flew it like a plane and
things.
And as I was looking at it, it occurred to me,
That's like a tel telephone or it's like a telephone booth.
There is no such thing as a doghouse anymore.
yeah.
Does that make sense?
Yeah.
In in where where we live.
Right, right.
I'm saying in in in America, in general in our county.
Well in in a lot in major cities there's no there's not a doghouse.
And and so that made me think like if I put a doghouse up there for Sadie, probably they
call the Humane Society.
I mean
Which is when you think about it, a lot of things in life change like that.
You don't even notice they changed.
And and so, um and and then why do they change?
Things like that are are kind of interesting.
But one of the big changes and I feel like I'm messing the in the in the punch bowl by
telling you this, but one of the big changes with your pet is private equity.
Oh yeah, big time.
Yeah.
And they pri private equity is taking care of you if you're taking advantage of you, if
you're a pet owner.
It's a win win.
Well, it it's strategic to to take advantage because of the unconditional love and the
lack that people have of it, uh, they have bought out most of the independent um
veterinary things.
and dramatically raise the prices and the cost of taking care of your pet.
So um that they and they did it if you research it, they did it because they knew you love
your dog.
One hundred percent.
Yeah.
And so that evolution basically led to the the idea that the average cost of a lifetime of
Miss Sadie right here is somewhere between um twenty two and sixty thousand dollars.
Yeah.
Which is crazy when you think about it.
Well, and like people, uh, the expenses grow as your dog gets older.
Right.
Right.
So Caleb when your dog gets older, are you gonna be able to be objective about that?
Like so you have to take the the love and your wherewithal to make that kind of thought
process.
Have you thought about that yourself?
I have.
Uh 'cause I've had
I think I talked to Judah about it.
Like her parents are in a lot different situation financially than we are, and they're
able to afford to do uh certain surgeries or whatnot.
And I'm I was like, Hey Judah, like if Bertie has this big surgery that comes up, I'm
like, Mm, we're gonna probably have to make a hard decision.
Yeah.
So I I have
thought about it and uh who knows what our finances will look like down the road.
But at this point that's not in the picture, even though we how much we love her.
But yeah.
It's a c it's a crazy thing.
But but I think that's the reason I really wanted to have this podcast because what's
happening demographically is the Caleb Tyners of the world are the ones having more dogs
these days.
Mm-hmm.
And and it's young males.
It's not people his age.
It's the specific demographic of Caleb.
These Gen Zers are the ones that have it my my research said last year in twenty twenty
five they're up they they they're up forty percent.
Huh.
Which is a pretty
That's a pretty significant increase in um I would say there's worse things to be spending
your money on.
Yeah, there's a lot of things to be spending money on the way to go, young guys.
S one fifties, uh, some chewing tobacco and and a dog.
That's right.
What else do you need in life?
Well that's it's Zens now.
Yeah.
Well that's what that's what was ironic.
I was just so w with the cost.
If you had a dog all your days until you're my age, what what would that be comparable?
What kind of expenses and
It's comparable to a college education that you would pay for somebody, or it's comparable
to buying uh a brand new car every ten years.
So it's it's um it's a real it's a real decision.
Like if you if you don't know that, you just think I don't I want to have a pet, it's not
like I want to go buy a packagum or go buy my s a Starbucks might be the same thing
though.
If you bought a a Starbucks every day, you're probably talking a very similar
cost over the long like the compounded cost of it.
Yeah.
What what what do you see like like for your I don't know that I know anybody that's loved
dogs as much as you have, as long as you have.
Like you I I remember knee high that you were a dog lover without even having one.
Like you would chase them around the neighborhood and what what do you think like the when
you think about dogs, what what really stirs your soul there?
Uh and why
I started loving them or I don't know.
I think just a fluffy creature that wants to be around you is the initial draw as a young
kid.
Um now I think it's probably what you're talking about, that unconditional love.
Get home from work, they greet you at the door, uh, and all that.
I think now that we have hours and
uh have our own place.
I enjoy now, maybe not in a couple months, I enjoy taking Bertie on a couple of walks
every day.
It gets me yeah gets me moving, gets me uh exercising more than I would otherwise.
So I think that I know for some people it's having a purpose, having something to take
care of and uh something that's depending on you.
I know that's a big a big draw too.
It it was the well, one of the ideas of a dog that's really funny to me is like th that I
think humans are more forgiving to dogs than they are to humans.
Right?
Like that they just will endure a lot more from a dog.
So like one of the dogs that that makes me smile that's crossed our path was Brexit.
And and the first time I crossed paths with Brexit, Brexit just grabbed me by the wrist
and lit me up and and and
I don't know if Brexit got you or I think he might have.
Yeah.
And and at the same time, we were kinda it wasn't like we were angry or anything.
It was we were able to move on and kind of I mean we were cautious around Brexit after
that, but we weren't angry or bitter.
And it it's really a funny idea to think.
Well he he warned us.
He did warn us, right?
We we were warned.
It wasn't out of the blue.
Go Brexit.
So so um ha have you had to uh as an adult yet, have you had to let go of a dog yet?
Has that crossed your path yet?
No.
Yeah.
I I would I would say uh for me it's probably top ten most difficult things I've done.
Oh.
It's gotta be way higher than that, right?
Well, I mean top ten.
Top ten ever.
Like that's uh I've done some difficult things, but but uh I've got a picture in my my
file.
uh I took I took Molly for a walk and 'cause I'm like, I don't I was just the lighting
going into the vet, right?
Like I I went for a walk across the street and I'm like
I gotta do this thing.
And so we get to the front, the entrance of the vet's office, and there was a Bible verse
on the wall that says, Let everything that has breath praise the Lord.
And and for me So cool.
It just told me uh all dogs go to heaven.
I just have to believe there's dogs in heaven and and uh There you go.
That that's gonna be the most searched thing on the internet.
It's do dogs go to heaven?
You heard it right there.
Yeah, I say they do.
Yeah, I say they do.
And and uh what Molly did, like when we got there, she ran to the door and looked back at
me and said, like, let's go, big boy.
And I was like, I thought I don't cry much.
I thought I was gonna lose it.
But I was like, I don't I don't know if she knew what was going on or not, but she led me
in and I was like, Oh, this this is this is really miserable.
And well she also hated the bet.
I don't think I knew that.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I think up to that point she would always go the other direction.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And so so one of the one of the things that I learned through that is by having a dog I
had to be the adult in the room.
Because there um I think the real love of a dog is stopping their suffering.
And it it's hard to be the adult in the room to do that.
And and maybe and I know some of you might think differently about that to me, but but I
just kinda had made a mental note when this happens I I can't let it go on anymore.
And there there was with her cancer that she had, there was a little bit of a kind of a
rally.
And when that r I just had made the decision when the rally ended, that we're going right
away.
We're not we're not delaying it anymore because I I just don't want to watch her suffer.
And so, um that really is one of life's great lessons is like making hard decisions on
somebody you love.
One of the other things about dogs is if you study the history of pet hats, they are
simply a result of prosperity.
Like they don't exist in
poverty or things like that.
They're a prosperity thing.
And so when when difficult economic times come up, like during the Great Depression or
even the most recent, the two thousand eight uh recession in the United States, there are
a lot of dogs that are just released out there.
They're not they're not gonna be Sadie.
They're gonna be the old dog that that that's historically what's happened with dogs is
that the the new ones are just out or the old ones or the
Those are the ones that find their way to the street.
And so they're they're they're they are a a thing of prosperity and a and a luxury.
And so but but one of the other kind of things that are going on where it becomes an
economic thing is the data shows that that because the younger generation is struggling
more, they're opting more for a dog than a child.
And that's that's the real hard
truth about this current economic difficult time we're going through is the young people
are thinking through it and they're they're realizing I may just have to go permanently
with the dog and I might not be able to afford children.
Wow.
Interesting.
Yeah.
I didn't realize that.
That that seems kind of crazy to me.
Yeah.
Well I mean it it the co that that's why that's why I was just bringing in the cost of
things before say me, I can I can have
Sadie, but uh to to get tough connected to the reality of where young people are and just
kind of see demographically the decisions they're making.
Um, it's it's just real life decisions that people are making.
And so you'll see a lot more younger people just having dogs and and it didn't it didn't
even occur to me as a young dad to have a dog right away, or even before we had kids.
It it just seemed before we had kids, we wanted our liberty, our freedom.
Yeah.
And and so to
tie myself down to a sorry about this, tie myself down to a dog.
Uh just didn't make sense.
Yeah.
I mean, you you've discovered that, right?
Like there's there's an opportunity cost of time with having a dog that you probably
didn't understand until you had your own.
Yeah.
And uh like I noticed that two days ago I got home and uh Judah had taken Bertie to her
parents' house and I was like,
I don't have to go on a ten, fifteen minute walk right now.
I can just get right to what I was planning on doing afterwards and uh I was able to knock
a bunch of tasks out of the way uh without having to worry about something else.
And I think another part that you're talking about too is if you're deciding between a dog
this size and what we have with a golden retriever.
It's lot easier to find a friend that will take care of uh a fifteen, twenty pound dog
than a seventy pound dog that shoves everywhere.
So uh that also I guess opens up some freedom if you do have a dog is who can take care of
it.
Uh if you have family around, I think a big benefit to us is we're five minutes.
Five minutes from our in laws and they have a bunch of land.
So if we need to just drop Bertie off and let her roam, roam free, we can if we're gonna
be gone all day.
But uh a lot of people don't have that luxury.
For us, we we can't dog sit because she's a punk.
Like she doesn't get along well with others.
And so we would be fine dog sitting.
And so I again that's an expense that
when I think back as a child, I don't even know what we did with our dogs.
I don't ever remember putting them in a kennel.
So somebody did something with the dogs.
And so the the process of of a dog is really probably probably an on ramp is maybe think
about dog sitting if you're your age is is a good way to start to kind of get acclimated
to it.
I know one of your siblings makes a good income stream as a dog sitter.
It's not bad gig if you like dogs.
It's it's really a profitable way to look at uh maybe some dog Italian without necessarily
the ownership element of it.
Well, it's a this is an unusual topic.
We had an unusual guest today, and I I thought I would offer some practical suggestions
for those of you thinking about it.
I would think that if you're gonna if you're th if you're particularly if you're younger
and you're thinking about how where does this fit in with my future, I would
think about budgeting a dog or a pet for the lifetime cost of it to see if you really can
afford it.
And and and that that number you can talk to your AI what it would be for the golden
retriever versus the miniature kakapoo and and then I I hadn't really thought of this
myself, but I guess we can get pet insurance that can help maybe offset some of those
expenses, make maybe give you some flexibility with those
end of life decisions that you wouldn't have had if you didn't have the pet insurance.
Are you guys familiar with pet insurance or have you spent any uh money on it?
We don't own it ourselves, but I I know uh a few f few of our friends, they have it.
One in particular, it's giving him peace of mind more than anything.
He knows what it costs.
Yeah.
But it's it's bottom peace of mind.
So it would help reduce some of the emotions when things aren't going well.
Ironically
I I'm a cynic at Hardy.
I just love those things.
Ironically, one of the big investors in pet insurance is the private equity people.
So they they're they're they're they're they're very strategic in their thought process.
And then well I know uh the bet that we've taken Bertie to, they offer I don't know if
it's pet insurance exclusively or if it's like a subscription plan, uh which includes kind
of coverage of vet visits.
at the clinic.
I think it's worthwhile, particularly the like if you can't easily step away from one pet
to the next.
I know one of your f well, I remember n number of months ago you told me one of your
friends had a sh she has a fixed number in her head and and she's she's uh I I what I
gathered kind of unemotional about it once it gets to that point.
So um I always used three X.
We have a friend, uh mutual friend who who helped me think about that.
So I I thought, okay, what did we pay for our dog?
And I just three X it.
Um, but uh that that was kind of like my top line if something went wrong.
and I think with prosperity, uh, you know, that number can grow bigger.
Yeah.
Uh and then when you see your kids attached to your dog, that number could be bigger.
Yeah.
Uh so I I don't know what what the right number is there, but a dog uh
Sure is great.
And I think most people go into a the relationship with a dog.
Kind of like they go into the relationship with the kid.
They never even thought about it.
They just all of a sudden they have a dog.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Man and and maybe maybe you do set a spending plan at the beginning of the reaction or
whatever, just so that you did um I remember with Sadie not Sadie, sorry, with Molly,
having a heart to heart conversation with the vet about where
where this is gonna go and and um th those are hard conversation.
but there there's a number of things you can do as you're you know on ring with being into
being a pet owner and I would just encourage it that that they are a great, great benefit
and and um there's all In fact our neighbors pretty much know us because our dog trots
around the yard.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Uh that's how we've built a lot of re like relationships in the neighborhood.
I mean that's how
I have with taking Birdie around the block two or three times a day, just getting to meet
neighbors around and some of them I don't even know if they know my name, but they're
like, Hi Birdie.
Right.
So it just opens up that uh community.
My father in law, he's in his uh early eighties and and we're we're actually pet sitting
right now.
We love to pet sit.
It's a sm you know, their dog's a small dog, so our dog's a big dog, and it's fun to have
both that uh he eats.
He just says that his dog allows him to get out and exercise like you're mentioning and
and gives him uh just more of a reason to get up and and go in February.
Yeah.
In the cold and cold days of Indiana.
That's really that's really good.
The the uh the the idea that dog is God spelled backwards is not kinda it's kind of an
interesting idea that there's something.
uh
That's hilarious.
Yeah, so there's there's something really cool about a dog that's hard to express.
And um I I don't know how many dogs I'll have in my lifetime, but they've all been a real
treat to me.
And and even like you're saying the dog sitting, like if Uncle Randy's been a uh dog
sitter for us, for Kristen, I don't know if he he probably because you've got already dog
sitters in place, but I know that being a dog sitter can maybe
be an economical way to have a dog around you.
Yeah.
So there's a lot of solutions.
And so, it's this was an unusual conversation with an unusual guest, but I I hope that you
guys can find joy in dogs and cats and any pets that you might have and and um we just
appreciate you hanging out with this conversation today.
Any last words?
Not for me.
Go walk your dog.
Or mine.
See you guys.