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Wired In: Kontek Conversations is for leaders who want to get technology right. From universities and healthcare systems to corporate enterprises, each episode delivers practical insights to help you navigate complex projects, avoid costly missteps, and design environments that truly connect people.
Through candid conversations with Kontek executives and industry experts, you’ll discover why projects succeed or fail, how to balance innovation with usability, and how bold ideas become reality. Along the way, we share perspectives on the evolution of AV technology, the impact of employee ownership, and the culture of accountability that drives lasting results.
With almost four decades of expertise, Kontek invites you to think bigger, dream bolder, and imagine what’s possible when technology and vision come together.
Brandon Giella: Hello and
welcome back to another episode
of Wired in the Conec podcast.
I have special guests with me today
replacing or standing in for Marcus.
He'll be back later.
Uh, but we have Jeff, Howard
and Cannell Smallwood.
Thank you for joining both
programmers at heart and leading
the design team for Contech.
Jeff, I wanna start with you.
We are talking about UI and ux.
Today, which are very interchangeable
terms, uh, in the industry.
I think at least people
use them interchangeably.
Um, but that may not necessarily be so,
so can you give us a brief definition of
those and why the heck does it matter?
Why are we talking about that today?
Jeff Howard: Yeah, sure thing Brandon.
Thanks for having me.
Um, so I'm a senior UI UX engineer.
What that means is I am responsible
for the user experience, um,
UX user experience, uh, which
is a little bit different.
They do go hand in hand, but a
user interface is a specific device
or a specific way that end users
interact with, uh, an AV system.
Brandon Giella: Hmm.
Jeff Howard: it could be a touch
panel, it could be an occupancy sensor,
it could be just looking at, um.
Something on a screen to indicate
how the system is behaving.
So that is the interface
between and the system.
Brandon Giella: Hmm.
Jeff Howard: Um, and user experience
is a little more robust than that.
It sort of defines the overall, um,
feeling a, a user gets when they are
operating and, and using the system.
So, um.
Things like, uh, projectors, video
walls, uh, the audio quality, um,
how easy the interfaces are to use
and how, uh, intuitive they are.
That all is like globally wrapped into ux,
Brandon Giella: Hmm.
Jeff Howard: user experience.
And what Canal, canal and I
do is, uh, designed those, um,
systems with the end user in mind.
You know, how are they going to
experience a system and is it going to do.
What the system is designed to do, uh, to
facilitate meetings, lectures, anything
that needs to happen in that space.
Brandon Giella: I agree.
Any, uh, canal, anything to add
or, or a distinction on that?
Connell Smallwood: Absolutely.
Those were very good points, Jen.
one thing that I'll add is that, um, the
UI how you make it look, look pretty,
and what they're actually touching on
that on a touchscreen or a button panel.
Um, but UX is where it really dives
into how do you feel using a room.
And I
Brandon Giella: Hmm.
Connell Smallwood: said that Jeff,
um, one of the biggest things that I
like to think about is, is preparing
for the room shouldn't be as stressful
as preparing for the meeting itself.
So.
Brandon Giella: like that.
Connell Smallwood: don't want to
have that, uh, being anxious to use
the actual equipment in the room
and setting up for the meeting.
Um, in comparison, your actual meeting
is what you should be worried about.
So that's when you, we, we start talking
about the user experience behind things
Brandon Giella: Hmm.
Marcus has made the point, uh,
a couple of times that, um,
if you don't have a great UX.
People don't want to go into the
room and use it like you're saying,
you know, they'll find another room
or another way they'll, they'll, you
know, take the meeting from the desk.
You know, it's like, it's much
easier to just log into Zoom
or whatever from my computer.
Um, which eventually impacts the,
the, you know, ROI, essentially of
the room and of the space in general.
It degrades the performance
of the organization.
If you can't have a great
meeting, for example.
Do you find that to be the case
in your experience with ux?
Is that, is that trend
with how you guys see it?
Connell Smallwood: Yeah, I, I
definitely would agree with that.
Um.
soon as someone has issues or resistance
on using a room, um, it kind of turns
you off from even wanting to touch the
Brandon Giella: Yeah.
Connell Smallwood: Um,
that's, that's what you run
Jeff Howard: Yes, sir.
Connell Smallwood: and that's our job.
I, I think when I think about providing
a control system for a room, um.
end user should be able to walk
into the room and have no fear.
They don't need any
user guides, no manuals.
Um, if, if they are asking questions
when they're using a system or see a
touch panel, I don't feel like I did my
Brandon Giella: Oh, well.
Hmm, hmm.
How do you make it better?
I mean, I know that's such a broad
question, but like, what are some
principles or, or things that you
guys are thinking about in doing your
work or designing a space, helping
somebody's dream or vision come to life?
Like what are the, call it, you
know, checklists or things that
are going off in your mind?
Like, how can I make this simpler?
How can I make this easier?
How can I make it more.
You know, adaptable to the
different ways people meet and
their different technologies, like
what's going through your mind when
you're setting those things up?
Jeff Howard: That's a great question.
Um, I think the two.
I approach that are first to think about
just the audio and video signal flow.
Uh, where are the video
sources and audio sources?
How do they get to the loudspeakers?
How do they get to a
Zoom or teams meeting?
Um, and then the other side of that is
the touch panel or the user interface.
Um.
We wanted it to look as clean
and as as simple as possible.
Um, like Kennel was saying, if, if people
are confused by the interface, if they
just don't understand it or they don't
have a good experience during a meeting,
they're not gonna wanna use that space.
So, um, a lot of the times we will lean
on a client to say, Hey, do you have, um.
Style guide that you use?
Or do you have other rooms
where you've had success
Brandon Giella: Hmm.
Jeff Howard: just build off of that?
You know, we can scale it up, scale it
down from a small huddle space to, you
know, a a hundred seat lecture hall.
Um, it really is just about ease of use
and about making sure that like when
that person is up at the podium or is on
a meeting, um, that they feel confident
that everything is gonna work right.
Brandon Giella: Hmm.
Connell Smallwood: One of our
goals is make the user interface
easy, familiar and intuitive.
Um, again, as I, as I was saying
earlier, my goal is to make a control
System that doesn't require a manual
user guide or even invoke questions.
Um, uh, obviously there's gonna be users
that are kind of averse to technology.
Um, but uh, if I, if I've done my
job correctly, they shouldn't, um.
Have any questions and can just walk
up to the panel and use the room.
Um, when thinking about, uh, system design
or UI design, we probably wanna focus
on not having too many button presses.
Obviously I max it out when I'm
thinking about control systems.
A max of two to
three button presses to do a certain, um.
A certain, uh, action in the system or
Brandon Giella: Hmm.
Connell Smallwood: Um, once you start
going too far deep into menus and, and
you're pressing 3, 4, 5 buttons to do
a certain, uh, action in the room you
just lost at the user at that point.
So that's one of the big things.
Um, another thing that we think
about is button affordance.
Um, button affordance is, uh,
essentially making pressable buttons.
Buttons that do actual
actions look like buttons.
Not to be confusing with, uh,
maybe text on the, on the panel.
Um, so it makes it very easy for
the, the user to, to operate a
touch panel and, and kind of self
Brandon Giella: Hmm.
Let the record show that.
When you need something to be simple
and elegant, that that is actually
the most difficult thing to achieve.
And so your emphasis on, I don't
want that many buttons to press.
I don't want that, want that many steps.
That actually requires a lot of
hard work on the front end or.
In this case, maybe the backend to make
things really, really simple for the user.
And it makes me think of, uh, this is kind
of an obvious cliche example, but it makes
me think of like Steve Jobs at Apple.
That was a big drive of him and
his work with Johnny Ive, which
was like, how do I make this thing
where I don't need a button at all?
I don't need anything.
And so you have this like clean
plane of glass on a phone,
which was unique at the time.
Um, so do you guys, uh, feel
that that maxim is true?
That if you want something simple.
That that's actually the
most difficult thing to do.
Jeff Howard: Yeah, absolutely.
I think I was at, uh, Infocom in
2018 and attended a seminar on
user experience and they said.
Uh, one of the main, um, thesis points
was that, you know, we all now have
many touch panels and computers,
uh, in our pockets everywhere we go.
So in terms of of being
familiar with how to.
Uh, open an app and do a
function, uh, on our phones.
Um, the AV industry really
needed to catch up in terms
of uh, ease of use and, um, making it
look clean, making it clear because
an app isn't gonna have, you know, a
document to go along with it to say.
To do this, follow these 14 steps,
you really need it to be, like
Canne said, one or two button
presses, you're off and running.
And I think the challenge for us as, as UI
designers is to just, like Cannell said,
make it clear what the buttons are doing.
There's a progression between pages.
They're visually consistent
and the user is gonna have,
uh, like I said, confidence in.
the System forming, uh, as you go through
the, the buttons and the, and the menus.
Brandon Giella: Hmm.
Connell Smallwood: When we're
thinking about these systems, um,
we're working with systems that
can have multiple ins and outs.
Um, most of our.
Technology is moving towards more of
a matrix style systems, whether it be
a matrix in a box or uh, AV over ip.
You got any input to any
Brandon Giella: Hmm.
Connell Smallwood: Now our job as
the, uh, control programmer is, Hey,
what does the end user really need?
They don't need to know that I could send
a camera back into my PC or I can send
a camera to the actual t uh, display.
What.
What's their use case?
What do they really need
to see on the panel?
And we'll do the work and thought
process behind the scenes to
make all those p parts and pieces
Brandon Giella: Hmm.
Connell Smallwood: So it's definitely,
it takes some brain power to, to get that
going, but, um, that, that's the end of
the end goal and, and the whole thing.
Brandon Giella: Yeah.
I can see in the kind of tech industry
more broadly, at least for like office
work with, with computers, the where
I see things going is, is uh, just
doing everything with your voice.
It's like, I don't even
need a screen almost.
I don't even need buttons
on a keyboard or a mouse.
I just need to talk to it.
Like I see a lot more
features coming out with.
With tools like that and how agents can
build things just by natural language and
all that, which is really fascinating.
I don't think AV is gonna get
there n next week, but it's
heading that direction maybe.
Um,
Jeff Howard: I think a
Brandon Giella: yeah.
Jeff Howard: uh, user interface devices,
they have cameras, they have microphones.
So in terms
Brandon Giella: Yeah.
Jeff Howard: of, of voice commands,
of gestures, um, just not even
needing to, um, to touch a
Brandon Giella: Yeah.
Jeff Howard: uh, we've seen a, uh,
uh, the industry come a long way
in terms of, uh, camera tracking.
I
Brandon Giella: Hmm.
Jeff Howard: initially it was,
uh, very expensive and, and very
difficult to do, and now you're seeing
out-of-box solutions from a number
of manufacturers that have really
smart, uh, auto tracking, auto framing
Brandon Giella: Hmm.
Jeff Howard: for people in meetings.
And, uh, we've seen a huge response from
clients saying that, um, that has improved
their experience, uh, and their virtual
Brandon Giella: Really?
Hmm.
Jeff Howard: And, um, I
think one of the biggest, uh.
Double-edged swords we've seen
is that during the pandemic, uh,
people, they got really smart about,
uh, hybrid and virtual meetings.
Um, but they also, when they come
back to a physical conference
room or a physical meeting room.
They want to have that same intimacy
where the camera shot is framed correctly,
that the microphone is right there.
Brandon Giella: Hmm.
Jeff Howard: uh, I think we touched
on this earlier, where if a, if a
user experience is poor, they're
just gonna take those meetings at
their desk with their headphones
Brandon Giella: Yeah.
Jeff Howard: and they're not
gonna want to use, uh, a system.
So the challenge for us
is, you know, how do we.
Um, how do we provide a solution
where user experience in a room with,
with 6, 8, 10 other people, um, can
provide that intimacy and that, um,
connection that you need for those
meetings, um, in a larger space.
Brandon Giella: Yeah, which is hard to do.
I mean, if you've got multiple mics
that are close to each other, let's
say somebody's on their computer.
You know, and there's people remotely
and there's just a bunch of different,
it's, it's hard to get that right, to
get that feedback to echo all of that.
And it's, it's, that's really difficult.
Uh, I, I wanna shift gears
a bit, and I know a, a.
Uh, a big component of doing your work?
Well, the UI and the UX together is
having a, um, a client's brand, their
visual brand incorporated into the
aspects of the, the screen, multiple
screens, multiple offices, and how that
might be rendered in different ways.
And I'm thinking, you know, from a
marketing perspective, thinking about
a great UX, is that every channel.
Asset device platform.
They all have this cohesion to
this is the brand, this is, you
know, it's got this color palette,
this type style, this, you know.
Um, so how do you guys think
about that and doing that well
across all the different, I don't
know, platforms, channels that
you guys have on your industry?
Connell Smallwood: So I,
I'd like to take that one.
Um, so, weirdly enough, the first
thing that I do to kind of get
my creative juices flowing is I
check out the company's website.
Um, the website's going to guide me in
how to match their look, their feel,
and even the culture of the company.
You're gonna, you're gonna get that
feel from their, the actual website,
obviously you'll see logos there,
you'll see colors that they use, um,
and, um, you kind of fly from there.
The other thing that a lot of
entities have are, are brand guides.
These bigger entities, um, like a lot
of our higher education we do, they
have, they have their full brand guides
telling you, Hey, what our color codes
are, what our fonts are, and this all.
drives you into matching
the identity of the company.
Um, so, so yeah, like I said, I, I
usually start on a, on a website.
I'm not sure how you, how you get your
go, get the gears going there, uh, Jeff.
But, um, that's usually where I start.
Brandon Giella: Hmm.
Jeff Howard: Yeah, I'm the same way.
I think, uh, if there are any, uh,
examples of other systems where the
client has had success, um, we'll ask
them for either screenshots of that or
a, a source code from their UI platform.
Um, yeah.
And just a conversation with them
about what do you like about this?
What do you not like about this?
Um, will, throughout the project
timeline, we'll create, um, mockups
of the user interface screens
and present them to the client.
And it's, it's a conversation.
It's not, you know, one out of
box solution where we have a
template and this is what you get.
Um, might like, uh, certain buttons
or certain color combinations.
Uh, there was one project I did where.
actually created three versions
of the same interface page.
You know, one was a white background, a
gray background, and a a black background.
And say you can go dark mode, high
contrast, you know, what is gonna
work for your users in this space.
Um, and you know, a lecture hall might
have a different need than a huddle
Brandon Giella: Hmm.
Jeff Howard: So it's just
about being flexible.
Um, and a lot of times you, you'll get to
a client that has just done it one way.
For so long, and that's
the only way they know.
So it's our job to also be creative
and sort of inspire, um, where they can
improve upon their user experience in
terms of going a different direction,
um, with a UI screen or with, uh,
just how the system flows through
Brandon Giella: Hmm.
Jeff Howard: presses and
through the menus than that way.
Brandon Giella: Hmm.
Connell Smallwood: It's so important to,
I guess, that the level of, of the anxiety
that a end user can use, can, can feel
when using a room you're matching their
logos, colors, fonts and everything.
It, it makes them, makes the system
feel like it's a part of this
Brandon Giella: Hmm.
Connell Smallwood: Um, and I
think us taking those steps to
match the identity of the company.
shows that we care about our
client and the customer and,
and what they're trying to do.
So, um, the time that me and Jeff kind of
take to, to hone in on those things, I, I
think is a step that would be ill-advised
to, to miss for other integrators.
Um, but it, it does show that,
that we care at the end of the day.
Brandon Giella: It's about a level of
polish and craftsmanship and quality.
You know, I think that's what
you guys are getting rest.
Like when you step into a, a
contact designed to integrate,
implemented space, it should
have this level of polish, right?
Especially if you're gonna be
spending half a million, a million
dollars on a, on a beautiful space.
It should feel beautiful
at every level of detail.
Do you, do you feel that kind of drive
when you're working with your clients?
Jeff Howard: Oh, absolutely.
I think, you know, you walk into a space,
notice the biggest things first, right?
We often say it's, it's the AV
industry is capital V because
you're gonna notice a video wall,
you're gonna notice a projector.
Uh, but it's really those, those
fine details that once you are
using the system, uh, once you're
familiar with it, uh, those.
Going that extra mile is really,
um, gonna create, uh, the most
positive user experience possible.
And I think it's why we've had, uh,
so much repeat business with our
clients is because they know that,
that, like you said, craftsmanship
is, is really, um, what's at the
heart of our, of our company.
Um, and like I said, it's an
ongoing conversation because,
uh, a lot of companies will just.
Give you one thing, uh, and when the
project starts, it could be some higher
level decision makers, but once it reaches
the end user, the system might not be
exactly the way they envisioned it.
So we, throughout the project
timeline, we are checking in.
We are, uh, visiting the job site.
Um, we're talking with the people who
are, um, going to be using the system.
And then even after a project is
complete, you know, we have our support
team who's gonna be right behind us.
Um.
Touching base with the client, making
sure they're happy with the experience,
not just from a functionality standpoint,
but um, from the way that the system,
uh, is being used and, um, that goes
right in line with user experience.
Brandon Giella: Imagine you're talking
to a leader at a corporate environment,
a hospital government, academic
setting, and they're thinking like, you
know, I've got this idea for a space.
I don't like our current space, or
we're building a new office or a new
wing, and they're thinking about taking
this on, taking on a big AV project.
What do you wish that they knew
before they really started in earnest?
What would you recommend?
What advice or wisdom do you have?
Connell Smallwood: I would want them
to know that they're not in a box.
Um, you can make this
room be whatever you want.
You can have the look and feel.
You can make it as automated as you want.
if you just wanna walk into a room and
it, it, it just wakes up and starts,
starts running, um, we can do that.
If you wanna walk into a
room and it's as simple.
touch, um, your calendar invite is on
the panel and you wanna jump right in.
We can do that.
Um, if you wanna be, have a complex
room, um, say, uh, three to four
different displays in the room,
and you wanna be able to share your
students', uh, information to any one
of those displays, um, in any type
of combination, sure, we can do that.
Um, like we can do anything.
We're, we're, we're not.
not gonna put you in a box.
We're gonna listen to what your
needs and use cases are, and hey,
let me, me and Jeff will, uh, put
our minds together to make it as easy
to use, but also have the ability to
be as complex as you want, as well.
Brandon Giella: Any negative scoping
or, or, uh, cautionary tales to say.
You can do that, but this is what we
need to be thinking about instead.
You know, or anything like that.
That's like, yeah, we can do
anything but do think about this.
Connell Smallwood: I, I will
definitely, um, I'll give that to Jeff.
Um, but what, what you definitely
have to think about, um.
I said keeping them inside of a box.
You definitely need to guide the end user
Brandon Giella: Hmm.
Connell Smallwood: uh, use case.
And you really going to need to
Brandon Giella: Hmm.
Connell Smallwood: multiple
sources to multiple destinations
at the end of the day?
Probably not.
So do have to put the reins on things.
Um, and it's something we think
about every day for any system.
Brandon Giella: Hmm.
Jeff Howard: Yeah, and just
to add to that, I think.
hit the nail on the head with use case.
I think, um, with the larger spaces, the
more complex spaces, especially divisible
spaces, um, you really want to get an idea
of what are the most common use cases.
And if, for example, a room is
gonna be, uh, open one big space
for 95% of the time, uh, that just
guides us in terms of designing.
A UI and system behavior, uh,
behind the scenes to facilitate that
and to make that as easy to use.
And then.
Behind, uh, a tech page or an admin
page, uh, password protected, so
most end users don't have to see it.
You can get into the, okay,
we're gonna divide it.
We're gonna send these
sources to one side.
We're gonna have, um, different
functionality on the other side.
Um, so dream big.
Absolutely.
Uh, we can do anything with enough,
with enough time and enough, uh,
knowledge of, of what your needs are.
Um, but uh, once the project starts
and we drill down to, okay, what is,
what is the day to day, uh, user,
uh, going to be doing in the space?
And then that's really where Canal
and knife shine in terms of being able
to have somebody walk into a space,
um, and maybe not even know that
it's a full matrix video system or.
there's x minus audio going on, they
just come in and use the space and,
uh, are happy with the experience.
Brandon Giella: Hmm.
So if I could summarize, maybe dream big,
but, uh, but do think really hard about
what you really need, what you really
need, really want day to day, what your,
what your team's gonna need and so on.
Jeff Howard: Yeah, absolutely.
I think with these hybrid spaces too, um.
The ability to sort of change,
uh, the look and feel of them.
And we can, you know, we can do
that with different interfaces.
Um, it's, it's funny because I feel
like those edge cases, you know, not
the day-to-day use, but those edge cases
where they say, well, we have a big.
You know, we have, uh, a VIP coming
in and we have to, to use this,
this system in a different way.
But those are the high visibility
ones, and that's really where we
want to, um, go through, uh, the
system with a fine tooth comb and,
and make sure that it's bulletproof.
Brandon Giella: Hmm.
Jeff Howard: inevitably, uh, that's
when you know you're not getting
the microphone mix that you need.
Uh, when the VIP is there.
Brandon Giella: Yeah.
Jeff Howard: so talking about.
Not only day-to-day use case, but also
like to make this system really sing.
Uh, and just through our process, uh, like
I said, in just constant communication.
We wanna be a partner, uh, in developing
these, these spaces and making sure that,
um, one that's all said and done, that
the client is putting their best foot
forward, uh, in utilizing the space.
Connell Smallwood: You spoke
about, um, divisible rooms.
Um, that is a big case when we kind of
have to put the, the rails on things.
Um, if you think about it, uh, divisible
room, once you go combined, sure you
could have a situation where you could
use the left or the right room to.
To present from and use all
sources from the left or the
right, but in, in most use cases.
Let, let's ask the customer,
Hey, what side is going to
be your, your primary room?
And then that kind of
guides us in making our
Brandon Giella: Hmm.
Connell Smallwood: simpler and
saying that, Hey, when this room
is combined, you're gonna use room
A as your primary control source.
Your sources from room A is what gets
shared to both sides of the room.
Um, you do your presentations from the
primary side and room A and so forth.
So I think when you, when
you mentioned come, uh.
Combined Divid provided rooms.
That's one of the, one of the biggest, uh,
examples of when we really need to hone
in on, on use cases and, uh, kind of guide
Brandon Giella: Mm-hmm.
Jeff Howard: I think,
um, just real quick, uh.
can't tell you the number of times I've,
uh, gone to meet a new client or been
with our support team and talked to an
existing client and we're, you know, we're
talking about their needs, and we get
to a divisible space and say, oh, great.
You know, how, how long
have you had this space?
It's like, oh, I've had
about eight, maybe 10 years.
It's like, great.
How many times have you.
In the divided configuration, it's
like, oh, maybe once, maybe twice.
And you're just like, okay, is it
really a divisible space at that
point or is it just one big room?
Brandon Giella: Yeah.
Jeff Howard: So, uh, I think, like
I said, having those conversations,
uh, early on in the, in the project
process, uh, talking to our.
Uh, account team and our design team,
uh, about how best to meet, uh, what
is actually happening in the room.
That's, that's so
Brandon Giella: Hmm.
Jeff Howard: and I think that's
what, uh, contact does really well,
uh, throughout the project Timeline.
Brandon Giella: That's helpful.
That's something that Marcus has always
emphasized is if you're starting the idea
of what you want to do, give us a call.
Call us as early as possible because
all those decisions need to be sorted
out way before you start, say the
architectural plans, the build, like all
of that needs to be thought through in
a really cohesive, comprehensive way.
So yeah, that tracks, that tracks.
Well, guys, thanks so much for your
time, your wisdom, your experience.
I know you guys are in the weeds all day
thinking about these kind of things, but
I'm glad we kinda surfaced a, a bit to
talk about what that, how that impacts
some of these big projects, especially
for leaders considering this kind of work.
So, um, super helpful to have
you on and have your wisdom and
experience shared with everyone.
Uh, so I'm hoping we'll have
you back on another episode.
But in the meantime, Jeff
Canal, thanks so much.
We'll talk soon.
Jeff Howard: Yeah.
Brandon, thanks so much.
This was fun.