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The Value Creation Mindset explores the decisions successful leaders make to create real, lasting value for their customers, teams, and businesses.
Hosted by A.J. Singh, each episode features candid conversations with founders, CEOs, and builders who have been in the trenches, unpacking hard-earned lessons on leadership, technology, strategy, and execution. No hype. No shortcuts. Just clear thinking, first principles, and practical insight from people who have actually built things that work.
[00:00:00] AJ: Hi, I'm Ajay Singh. Welcome to the Value Creation Mindset, the podcast that explores the principles behind the decisions successful business leaders make to build value for their, for their customers and for them- for themselves. Today I am joined by Sam Bousfield, the, uh, founder and CEO of Samson Sky, the company behind the Switchblade, a street-legal flying sports car designed to transform regional travel.
[00:00:29] In this episode, we'll unpack what it takes to pursue a vision that most people, that most people believe is n- is, is impossible, how Sam navigated nearly two decades of technical, financial, and regulatory challenges, and why persistence, adaptability, and long-term thinking are essential when creating something truly new.
[00:00:52] Sam, thanks for joining us
[00:00:55]
[00:01:01] Sam: Yeah, thanks AJ. Nice to be here and nice to be part of your podcast.
[00:01:06] AJ: Thanks. For listeners who may not know you yet, Sam, what's the problem you are trying to solve with the Switchblade, and why has it become your life's mission?
[00:01:18] Sam: Um, well I think early on I had the idea, uh, from early stages of my life that, uh, air transportation was important and was kinda cool.
[00:01:28] I remember drawing things when I was little, um, even in kindergarten, and so I've had this for a very long time. I think that's mainly why I felt like this was thing, something to pursue. I ended up not, going a different direction, but, uh, I came around to it again. And, uh, I think- Well,
[00:01:45] AJ: I mean, can you talk a little more about that?
[00:01:48] Because it, it's so funny, when I was a kid, what I wanted to be more than anything was a pilot. Sure. So every science fair project was about flight. Every book that I read was about, was about flight. Every book report. And yeah, eventually I got into software, which is, you know- Yeah ... very different. But t- talk to me a little bit about the process you went through from when you were a kid, when you had this, this des- this desire, and you might have shifted away from it, but it brought you back.
[00:02:22] Mm-hmm. How did that work for you?
[00:02:24] Sam: Yeah, it was kind of funny. I, I did, uh, well, even in kindergarten, I drew pictures all the time before kindergarten, and, um, seemed to be involved with space and, you know, things young guys look at. Um, I do remember drawing the pictures e- early on and having that interest. Um, I was reminded of that later because I, I had a friend who l- years ago found out, oh, Sam's doing a flying car, and reminded me off the bat, "Sam, you showed me pictures of flying cars when you were...
[00:02:56] that you drew in kindergarten, and you said, 'One day we'll have these.'" And so that was, that was kind of my earliest experience, I'll say, with, um, with my interest in that area. That's kind of funny.
[00:03:07] AJ: I, I, you know, I, I... Kids especially, right? You see them, they have the spark, right? Mm-hmm. This, this spark of innovation, the big eyes, the, the, the passion around things.
[00:03:21] And I think for entrepreneurs especially, you've got to stay true to that. You've got... You know, it's like when life happens, that spark often get covered up by a whole bunch of other things, and you can kind of lose it.
[00:03:36] Sam: Mm-hmm.
[00:03:36] AJ: But I think for to pursue something as a lifelong pursuit s- s- such, such as what you've been doing, you, you, you have to remember where that spark is and stay close to it.
[00:03:48] So I, I, uh, what your, your story totally resonates with me there. Um, now, you know- Before Samson Sky, you spent two decades as an architect, is that right?
[00:04:02] Sam: Sure, yeah.
[00:04:03] AJ: So, so, so you were drawing pictures of flying cars. How did you end up becoming an architect then?
[00:04:10] Sam: Yeah, it's, um... You know, an architect is part engineer and part artist, and- Mm-hmm
[00:04:15] artists dream the future. Um, and artists also create things. Engineers figure out how to build them, right? So that combination was pretty good. I, I was an architect for 26 years, so towards the end of that I had started doing... You know anyone that, that gets good at something for a while, you, you just see where it can be improved and where it's doing well.
[00:04:37] And so I started doing inventions, trying to figure out, "Now, this could be improved here," you know? And- Sure ... and that's how it's, that's how it started. I started doing more and more inventions, and some of them had to do with construction, which I'm trained in, and, and some with, um, aviation, which I'm, I just was passionate about
[00:04:55] AJ: I, I love that.
[00:04:56] I, I, um, I've been calling myself a software architect now for s- 20-plus years. Mm-hmm. Um, and I remember I was at a networking event in downtown Chicago once, and I met, um, a very famous architect, uh, who had designed buildings all over the world. I, I forget his name and I, I don't want to try to mangle it.
[00:05:15] But I introduced myself as a software architect- Mm ... which at the time ... I mean, even today the definition is very amorphous. Mm-hmm. But it is a blend of art and engineering to, t- to fundamentally, I think, create value. That's how I look at it. Um, but his comment to me when I said, "Oh, I'm a software architect," his, his
[00:05:38] the first thing that he said is, "You're not licensed." And he, and he, and he told me I wasn't licensed, and he was totally right. There is no licensing body for software architects. Mm. And it's a title people can give themselves. Sometimes they've earned it, sometimes they haven't. But I totally get the, the I can totally understand how that, that experience as an architect, where you have to bring in the details of en- the details of engineering.
[00:06:10] But ultimately, an architect has to keep an eye on the big picture.
[00:06:15] Sam: Mm-hmm.
[00:06:15] AJ: Figure out how to bring it to life in the real world.
[00:06:18] Sam: Mm-hmm.
[00:06:18] AJ: And in that sense, that seems like what you are, what you have done with the Switchblade. Is that about right?
[00:06:25] Sam: I would say so. It's, um, it's taken everything I had plus to get this thing going, so we can talk more about that.
[00:06:31] But it, it really takes, um, keeping your eye on the mountain and going for it, um, overall, and knowing the direction you're headed, so... And that's really how I-
[00:06:39] AJ: Yeah, but- ...
[00:06:39] Sam: did it ...
[00:06:41] AJ: it's import- i- it's important to have a North Star, which I just learned isn't exactly in the north, and it's not the brightest star in the sky.
[00:06:48] It's just more of a, more of a fable than anything else. But picking a vector-
[00:06:53] Sam: Mm-hmm ...
[00:06:53] AJ: that you know is gonna guide you for the next 10, 20, 30 years. I m- I mean, and basically you have to commit to as long as it takes. Mm. Right? To, to do something as big as you are doing. And as long as you're committed to that, you also have to realize you're not gonna get there in one shot.
[00:07:10] Sam: Mm-hmm.
[00:07:10] AJ: And it's not a direct path, and there are gonna be setbacks, and you're gonna have to, you're gonna have to move left and right and ultimately recenter and try to get back there.
[00:07:19] Sam: Mm-hmm.
[00:07:19] AJ: Now, you h- this isn't your first project. You had a major setback a while ago when you lost your, your friend and your business partner, Steve Fossett.
[00:07:35] Sam: Yeah. Steve, Steve was a, you know, famous adventurer, pilot, sailor, did world's records around, sailing around the world single-handedly, flying a balloon, balloon around the world by himself, those kinds of things. He was in the news a lot and, um, I had developed Uh, stepping back one more step, we had, we had, uh, worked...
[00:07:53] You know, when I first started into inventions, I didn't know for sure that my aero inventions, aerodynamics, was really valid. And so I went to an engineer with the idea and ran it past him to see, you know, "Let's, how does this look to you?" And he got all excited, and the next thing I know, he talked to his friends at Boeing, they got all excited.
[00:08:13] Had a professor at Stanford, Dr. Anthony Jameson. We all banded together, and for three years did a program to develop this particular, uh, it was a pusher aircraft, aircraft with a propeller in the back- Mm ... to, um, to take advantage of some principles of aerodynamics to make it more efficient and effective.
[00:08:31] And it, and it did. It worked out really, really well. Um, and that's when I saw, oh, you know, I guess I do have some ideas that are worth a darn in the area of avionics, e- aero- aeronautics, even though I'm not trained there. But that's what led me to, uh, Steve Fossett, because we were getting ready to put this out, and mostly we wanna put it out in racing.
[00:08:51] That's where you-
[00:08:52] AJ: Mm ...
[00:08:52] Sam: try different things, you know. You always push things out in racing. We were gonna rena- race at the Reno Air Races in the unlimited class. And then they decided to change the rules, uh, and prevent smaller planes from getting in there and flying with the big boys, the P-51s- Mm ... and, and, uh, Thunderbolts and all those, uh, bigger aircraft.
[00:09:12] And I, I see it, and y- you know, that was fine. Um, but that mean- meant I had to go another route to really show this. So I talked with Steve, who's big on making records, and told him- Mm ... "You know, you can break the sound barrier in level flight, which not even NASA's been able to do with a propeller, and 19 world's records.
[00:09:30] What do you think?" So he got excited, showed it to his guys, they gave two thumbs up. Um, Dr. Breitling, the watchmaker, they said, "Yeah, you pay half, okay half, Steve." And, um, and so he was ready to do it as his next adventure. And two months after that is when he disappeared. He was on a, another record-breaking adventure on the ground of some kind, and, uh, took off in a small airplane in the Sierra Nevada mountains, never to return unfortunately.
[00:10:00] Um, so lost him there.
[00:10:03] AJ: Oh, my God. I, I, I mean How'd you process a loss like that? I mean, someone you admired, someone you cared for, someone you were working very closely with. I mean, regardless of, of who someone like that is, processing that loss can, it can be devastating. How did you get through it?
[00:10:22] Sam: Well, the first thing we tried to do was find him.
[00:10:24] You know, we, we, uh, there was probably four or five, six of us who, um, got the word from Google Earth that they would post up pictures of, you know, satellite images, current satellite images of the area, and we were combing the ground, 'cause he said he went, I forget which it was, south or north. He went one direction or the other, i- is what he said he was gonna do, and he ended up going the other direction.
[00:10:45] So everybody's looking one direction, he had gone the other. So we're searching the wrong quadrants and, and nobody found him till eight months, and then hikers found the wreckage, and that's where he was found. But at that point, you know, we, we channeled everything into trying to find him and see what's up.
[00:11:00] And, um, and then after that you just kinda have to go, "Well, okay, that kind of route closed down. I don't really know any other famous flying adventurous mili- you know, people with money. Um, I, I still wanna do something." And, um, and I started to look at, what does aviation really need? You know? It's, I can see, if you think with artistry in the future, and- Hmm
[00:11:20] and you can see that in movies, uh, even cartoons, right? The Jetsons. Uh- Oh, sure ... you know, that, that was, um, something that had escalators in it before there were escalators, cell phones, talking, uh, wrist radio-type things, all kinds of different stuff we'd not, we did not have. And then science looks at that, and engineers, they race to catch up, right?
[00:11:43] The artists dream it. So that's how it goes. So I knew things were gonna be in the air in the future. You got Star Trek, Star Wars, Fifth Element. Yep. All that's pointed towards the future, and I knew it, we had to go that direction. So I was trying to figure out, well, if you have something that now we're mostly on the ground, in the future we're mostly gonna be in the air.
[00:12:05] How do you get from, from one point to the next over time? And, and I realized that you really have to do something that does a little of both. And so I decided, "You know, that's what I have to do. Let's refocus and go on to doing something that does both." And that's when I came up with the idea for the Switchblade.
[00:12:24] AJ: So how long did it take you to pour yourself into the switchblade after you lost your, your, uh, friend?
[00:12:37] Sam: Oh, boy I think it was probably about a year. Uh, I think about a year after that I started coming up with ideas. I didn't really do too much with it for probably another two years really. That was 2003 when we were s- ending off and he disappeared.
[00:12:57] I think it was 2005 before I really had any concepts that I could say were worth anything. And it was 2008 before I decided, uh, this is, this is what I wanna do. And, uh, I think in 2008 I was able to, uh, A, come up with, um, a marketing plan, you know, and marketing research to show that there was a market for this thing.
[00:13:19] Uh, B, that there was a business plan that would take me the route, um- Mm-hmm ... variable enough and open enough to, to get me there. And, and also I had to run it through some engineers to make sure that the concepts that I was coming up with were in the ballpark, that they were feasible. Um, you know, I'm okay that I'm, have the idea, but it takes engineers to really dial down and, and check validity and make sure that it's, it's, uh, really gonna go the distance.
[00:13:44] And, and we did that, and my wife and I kinda looked at each other and, "You wanna do this?" "Yeah, okay." And away we went.
[00:13:53] AJ: It, you know, it's like when you undertake any effort like this you're definitely not doing it alone. And I, I... You know, having family that supports you, having people that believe in you-
[00:14:05] Sam: Mm-hmm
[00:14:05] AJ: even in times when you might not believe in yourself on a particular day, I think we've all been there- Oh, yeah ... uh, is, is, is so essential to kind of bringing anything really worthy to, to life. Now, on the... Any architect, whether you're a actual physical architect, you are a software architect. Mm. You're, it's, if you've got this combination of art and engineering.
[00:14:33] And I, I'd, I'd like that definition An architect's job is to balance N number of different things.
[00:14:41] Sam: Mm-hmm.
[00:14:41] AJ: Engineers tend to be very focused on, on, on particular aspects, and you need that, right? You need the, y- you need the depth, you need the, uh, depth of the analysis. But it's an architect's job to then balance all of those things out and see if you've got something truly viable, and chart a path through the, through the construction, to, through the build-out effort, through launch and support effort that maintains that balance.
[00:15:11] And in many ways, that's sort of like trying to keep a plane steady through some pretty rough air. Mm-hmm. And, um, not an easy path. And, and, and the, the, the... Whether you're running a business or, uh, or, or undertaking any kind of major endeavor like this, there's, um, there's a concept in flight, uh, which, um, is kind of when you have an aircraft, it can either be inherently stable-
[00:15:35] Sam: Mm-hmm
[00:15:35] AJ: or inherently unstable.
[00:15:37] Sam: Mm-hmm.
[00:15:37] AJ: If it's inherently stable, you can have your, um, hand off, o- off, off of the controls, and it'll just keep on flying.
[00:15:44] Sam: Yeah.
[00:15:45] AJ: Steady. Startups, businesses that are getting off the ground trying to do anything big, uh, it's inherently unstable. You take your hand off the stick for half a millisecond, and you're in a dive.
[00:15:59] Sam: Yeah.
[00:16:00] AJ: So that can get a little tiring after a while. I don't know, I've been doing it for 26 years. I've been at it for a bit too. But the-
[00:16:13] How do you How have you managed to keep that balance and keep things on target for such a long endeavor?
[00:16:25] Sam: Well, you're, you're the champion on this one. You should answer that question. But I w- I will answer for me. Um-
[00:16:30] AJ: Sure ...
[00:16:30] Sam: and that is that I, uh, once I set the goal there, I find that I get very persistent, and, um, I usually don't back down once I've, I've made up my mind this is gonna happen.
[00:16:41] And, and from then on, it's just a matter of finding the way, and I had confidence that I would find the way, and I never wor- varied except for one time. Uh, there was one time we hit a brick wall with some technical aspect of things, and I, I kinda had to walk around and throw rocks for a while just to get it out my system, and then come back to the point of like, you know, there i- is a way to do this.
[00:17:01] There's gotta be a way to do this. I, I have to find that way. And, uh, you know, if you step back for a minute, you say, "Okay, I'll take a break and go take a hike or something," and, and then come back at it fresh. I think that's really what I had to do at that point.
[00:17:15] AJ: Oh, for sure. Uh, yeah, I, I, I... There's no shortage of people telling you it'll never work.
[00:17:20] Sam: No, yeah.
[00:17:21] AJ: Uh, you know, th- there's always a little voice in the back of your head saying, "I think I'm right." Mm. "Am I wrong?" And, and it's, it's, it, it's a classic entrepreneur's dilemma, but you've gotta be able to step away and recharge and kinda recognize when you're too close to, when you're too close to, uh, something.
[00:17:40] On, on, on, on my side, most of my epiphanies come in the bathroom.
[00:17:46] Sam: Mm.
[00:17:46] AJ: Usually I, I, I'm annoying my wife, uh, I take very long showers 'cause I... The brain just starts moving. Yeah. I'm like, "Ah, you get out of there. Using up all the hot water."
[00:17:55] Sam: Mm-hmm.
[00:17:55] AJ: Uh, but the, the, you need that kind of persistence and that, honestly, that, that belief in yourself.
[00:18:03] Sam: Mm-hmm.
[00:18:03] AJ: When the world may not, may not believe in you, it sometimes gets a little challenging to, to keep that self-belief going.
[00:18:10] Sam: Indeed.
[00:18:11] AJ: But, you know, talk to me about something be- be- because the, um, when you were- Synthesizing the i- the idea of the switchblade
[00:18:22] Sam: Mm-hmm ...
[00:18:22] AJ: you didn't ask how do I build a flying car.
[00:18:25] You asked instead, "What's the best vehicle for both driving and flying?"
[00:18:30] Sam: Yeah.
[00:18:30] AJ: Right?
[00:18:31] Sam: Right.
[00:18:31] AJ: And this is the, the... I learned only recently from somebody much, much wiser than me the difference between form and essence.
[00:18:43] Sam: Mm.
[00:18:43] AJ: What we really pursue is the essence of something.
[00:18:46] Sam: Mm-hmm.
[00:18:46] AJ: Whether it's love, whether it's building new products, getting a new ex- new, new ex- new, new experience, creating value in a, in a particular way.
[00:18:56] Sam: Mm-hmm.
[00:18:56] AJ: That's the essence of something. Now, the essence is what's really important. The form, it can take many forms.
[00:19:03] Sam: Mm-hmm.
[00:19:03] AJ: Right? Um, and- Can you talk a little bit to me about both things in terms of the Switchblade?
[00:19:11] Sam: Sure.
[00:19:12] AJ: What was- what's the essence of the experience you were trying to bring to, to life, and how did that impact how you chose the form?
[00:19:23] That, the form is the delivery view-
[00:19:25] Sam: Yeah ...
[00:19:26] AJ: of that, of that experience. So if you could talk a little bit about that, I think that would be great.
[00:19:30] Sam: Okay, cool. Well, um, what I was looking for was looking to the future to see, okay, what is a transportation method that would handle things and free people up to go where they wanna go, when they wanna be, go there, and on their schedule, just, you know, really enable f- enable freedom of transportation.
[00:19:50] Free. And- Okay ... and to do that, you know, you gotta get above the traffic jams, you gotta get out of bridges that are backed up because they're under construction or something of that nature. You got to have, um, the ability to cross distances quickly, and you have to have, uh, some other things that, that come into play as a, in our case, something that drives and flies is what I was thinking it had to have.
[00:20:18] And so all of those things kind of roll around in your, your psyche, your, however you conceive these things. Um, and, and to me, I, I was looking at basically what is this gonna do? What is its function? How is it gonna help people's lives? And, uh, what does it have to do to do that? And then I would pick, then I would decide from there, okay, how do, how do we make that a machine, right?
[00:20:40] And, um, and I think part of the reason for asking that question is we've had flying cars since the '50s. They've flown. There's been dozens and dozens. It, it hasn't been that people couldn't figure out how to make a flying and driving vehicle, it's just that they didn't, they weren't successful at it. And so I wanted to be successful.
[00:21:02] And so I said, "Okay, they're trying to answer this question over here. That isn't working. So I'm gonna ask this question and see if I get a different answer." And it ended up being one of the decisions, decisions that, that helped us succeed. I mean, we're at that knocking at the door right now, uh, production, which no one's ever got to.
[00:21:21] So, um, so I think that making that right decision of let's revisit the question-
[00:21:28] AJ: I love that You're y- so you are knocking on the door of production-
[00:21:34] Sam: Mm ...
[00:21:34] AJ: now.
[00:21:34] Sam: Mm.
[00:21:34] AJ: What does that mean? When, uh, when am I going to be able to go buy one of these things?
[00:21:40] Sam: Well, we flew two and a half years ago, uh, but we didn't like the top speed that we had.
[00:21:45] There was a, a speed issue, so we had to put the brakes on for a minute and look at it. Do we go forward with something less than we were promising people, or do we pull back, shift, shift gears a little bit, and then come back at it and deliver what was promised? Um, and that was a business decision mostly, but also a personal.
[00:22:05] I had to... I committed to people, and I- Well- ... I took money from people saying, "This is what we're gonna do." And I didn't think I could just walk away from that. And so I end up just sticking with it and saying, "Okay, we're going to change it. We're gonna take a hit on the business, pull back, make, make it do what we're supposed to do."
[00:22:23] And we did. We, we spent about six to eight months, then perfected that in the wind tunnel, and from then on I knew, "Okay, we're good." Um, and at that point we started what's called production engineering. Up to that point we're doing R&D, research and development. It's a one-off. You're buying off-the-shelf parts or handmade parts, you know, as little as you can.
[00:22:46] Uh, it's gonna be heavy. It's not gonna be exactly what you wanna make, but does it prove the concept? Yes, that's what you want. So we got to that point. We're okay. Now we go at, how do you build thousands of these? That's another engineering cycle. Now you have to see processes, um, materials, methods of construction.
[00:23:06] How much space do you need, you know? How... Who's doing the building? We're doing this as an experimental aircraft, which is- Yep ... you know, amateur built. Okay, how do you make it so that it can't be goofed up, right? So there's lots of considerations you have to do. And, and all of those played into the next bit from the two and a half years ago to now, when we are, uh, ready and building, actually starting to build the, the first production vehicle.
[00:23:31] So that's where we're at. Yeah. Building the first three, you'd call them test vehicles, the test fleet.
[00:23:36] AJ: Sure.
[00:23:37] Sam: So that's what's, uh, being done right now.
[00:23:40] AJ: I, I, I love that. Look, you know, I've been... I s- I started writing code when I was 10.
[00:23:45] Sam: Man.
[00:23:46] AJ: Yet I have, yet I have a master's in mechanical engineering-
[00:23:48] Sam: Mm ... '
[00:23:48] AJ: cause my father was an ME.
[00:23:51] I mean, uh, he still is. I switched into software a long, a long, long time ago. Mm. But being in the commercial software space for now what, three decades, you'll, you learn a few things. Mm-hmm.
[00:24:02] Sam: And
[00:24:04] AJ: for inspiration in the software space, you don't look in the software world.
[00:24:09] Sam: Mm.
[00:24:09] AJ: You look in the- The full world
[00:24:11] Sam: Okay
[00:24:12] AJ: At the end of the day, whether it's a physical product like Switchblade-
[00:24:16] Sam: Mm
[00:24:16] AJ: or it's a software product that you might bring to life, all the same fundamentals. Product development is product development. And so hearing you, hearing you talk about this, this process really resonates with me because there are four absolute non-negotiable qualities that any successful commercial product needs.
[00:24:40] Mm. And it doesn't matter if a physical product or a software product. First, it has to be stable. If it's not stable, you can't sell it. I mean, that, that is doubly true for a flying vehicle. Two, it has to be scalable. Building one-offs in the lab or, or in the garage versus building at scale-
[00:25:04] Sam: Mm ...
[00:25:04] AJ: in a factory is a whole different thing.
[00:25:06] 'Cause if you can only build at, at... If you can only build physical products in s- in small scale-
[00:25:12] Sam: Mm ...
[00:25:12] AJ: you can't really scale it or your business.
[00:25:15] Sam: Right.
[00:25:15] AJ: Same on the software side. If you build a piece of software which is stable but it can't support growing users or growing IoT devices or growing needs- Mm
[00:25:26] it's gonna fail as a business venture. Once a product is stable and it's scalable, it also needs to be profitable.
[00:25:35] Sam: Mm-hmm.
[00:25:35] AJ: Whether it's a software product, if you use too many cloud services and you- Mm ... your, you, you, you are losing your profit margin, or if it's a physical product, if, if you hadn't designed it for manufacturability, your manufacturing costs could be way out of line.
[00:25:50] Sam: Mm-hmm.
[00:25:50] AJ: If your quality is, is not, is not there, it will be neither stable or scalable nor, nor will it be profitable because you'll, you'll have to fix everything that you are shipping out.
[00:26:01] Sam: Mm-hmm.
[00:26:01] AJ: And finally, the, the, uh, fourth element, which is again, identical on the software side and the hardware side, whatever you build has to be serviceable.
[00:26:09] Sam: Mm-hmm.
[00:26:09] AJ: That's doubly true with an airframe-
[00:26:13] Sam: Yeah ...
[00:26:13] AJ: which is designed to last 30 years. It's not a throwaway car, although I'd like to hear, I'd li- I'd li- I'd like to hear more about that. So these timeless pillars of product development, I think are Yeah, they're, they, they are timeless for a reason, and, and I love to bring this together in the context of your product launch.
[00:26:37] But this is a super exciting time for you, and I know you're also thinking about all of the same things. Um, I have a question, though. Th- this, this, this technical challenge you, you faced. You built a product which didn't meet your design specs in terms of speed, right? Um, how far off were you on that?
[00:27:00] Sam: We reached a top speed of 130 miles an hour, and our cruise speed was supposed to be 160.
[00:27:06] Top speed, 200. So we're quite off the mark, and when we got into it, we realized, you know, uh, when I was first designing the Switchblade, I had all consultants. Aerodynamics, everybody, they were all consultants, and one, one particular fellow had, um, really good statistics, I'll just say. He had the best that I could find on ducted fans, which is a propell- inside a duct, right?
[00:27:29] Which is what we had on the original Switchblade. We had a ducted fan. So I went, "Okay, I get this guy, roll through. He gives me the spec of the prop and the, uh, deck shape that we need and, and gives me what we'll end up with." And, and there's no way to really test that until you fly. Unfortunately-
[00:27:45] AJ: Until
[00:27:46] Sam: you build it
[00:27:46] we can go in the wind tunnel and get within 3% on almost everything else, but we can't get there with a ducted fan unless you has a very extensive test. But anyways, we, we went through the wind tunnel. Yes. Everything else worked out fine, and we checked it. It flew just great. But when we got there and found that we were not meeting our speed, we had to figure out why, and that, it came down to, um, the duct itself was creating the air resistance, the drag, if you will.
[00:28:16] And no matter- Really? ... what power we put into it, it was just gonna create more drag, and so we couldn't get there, that path. And that was the tough thing, 'cause we'd worked for years to bring this up to-
[00:28:29] AJ: Yeah, that was a core part of your architecture.
[00:28:31] Sam: Oh, yeah. The- This
[00:28:32] AJ: duct ...
[00:28:32] Sam: this is the design, right? Well, the- There was more to it, but that was the propulsion side.
[00:28:37] That was definitely a key, key principle. Sure. And it, it took a little bit. That's, that's the one where I, I threw rocks for days. I did. Sure. I, I had to walk away and try and figure out how... What am I gonna tell people? You know, we've been working on it, they're expecting us to go in production, but this vehicle.
[00:28:53] And, uh, I didn't see how we could do it. Um, but quickly we figured out a route, and more and more we looked at things and the way we could shift it to our advantage. We ended up with a much better vehicle than we had before. Before- Sure ... one of the principles, uh, AG, any time you're doing a driving and flying vehicle, the key thing you have to look at is people have to want it.
[00:29:15] They have to be able to feel like they could use- Yep ... it. And so it's gotta perform. That was one of the things I talked about already. But it also has to be something they're, they're... They feel safe leaving. You c- otherwise you can't use it. If you, if it's so fragile or, you know- Right ... breakable or dangerous or whatever, you don't feel like you could use it, you're not going to.
[00:29:38] And so we have, we made a decision we're gonna hide and protect the wings and tail on the ground so that people would feel comfortable driving up to a restaurant on their trip, go in, have their dinner, come back knowing you're okay, you know? The other, the original design protected, fully protected the wings.
[00:29:56] They, they swing closed under the belly of the vehicle, all tight in there and protected. The tail moved forward and was protectic- protected by the rear bumper from bumps or crashes, if you will, to a degree. But they were still out there where they could be messed with by people at a parking lot. The new design completely encases everything inside the vehicle, and it...
[00:30:19] You'd have to break the vehicle to get at your flying surfaces, so.
[00:30:22] AJ: Hmm. Wow.
[00:30:22] Sam: It just makes it so it's so much nicer for people. They don't have to worry about it. They pull up, pull out, lock the car, they're done.
[00:30:31] AJ: And you did this while increasing the top speed?
[00:30:35] Sam: Yeah. Yeah.
[00:30:36] AJ: Because those type of mechanics, I mean, that, that generally adds weight, and weight's certainly one of your principal enemies here.
[00:30:44] I, I, um... Did you... To, to... So, uh, I'm just fascinated by this. Maybe this is the mechanical engineer still in me. Mm-hmm. But the, the, the new design doesn't have a ducted fan.
[00:30:55] Sam: Correct.
[00:30:56] AJ: You had to... I mean, you know, it's, it's... This is like a-
[00:31:01] This is a critical architectural problem which oftentimes you can't find until you subject it to the real world.
[00:31:11] Sam: Mm-hmm.
[00:31:11] AJ: The same thing on the software side.
[00:31:13] Sam: Mm.
[00:31:13] AJ: All tests might pass and your simulated scalability tests might pass. That's equivalent of a wind tunnel perhaps.
[00:31:22] Sam: Mm-hmm.
[00:31:22] AJ: But when you expose something, any new product to the real world-
[00:31:26] Sam: Mm
[00:31:26] AJ: there's some things you're not gonna find until you actually do that.
[00:31:29] Sam: Mm-hmm.
[00:31:29] AJ: And you try to mitigate risk along the way as much as possible, but there's still some inherent risk there. So I, I can totally, uh, sympathize with you, um- kicking some rocks because what this means is you had to place it in your head and then ultimately in, in paper, disassemble the architecture-
[00:31:51] Sam: Mm-hmm
[00:31:51] AJ: blueprint it, figure out the root cause analysis of all of these things- Mm-hmm ... redesign those particular subsystems, put it all back together again-
[00:32:01] Sam: Mm-hmm ...
[00:32:01] AJ: without, you know, throwing it out and starting all over.
[00:32:04] Sam: Mm-hmm.
[00:32:04] AJ: That takes-- That's not an easy thing, so I appreciate what wa- I appreciate what you had to go through to do that.
[00:32:13] So, so now with, with, with this updated product, are you, are you in production manufacturing at this point? You are working on the first three vehicles through your, through your commercial factory production line. It's no longer built in lab. You're- you've kind of figured this out. Is that where you're at?
[00:32:29] Is that right?
[00:32:29] Sam: Well, we are doing-- W- we moved into a 16,000 square foot R&D facility out of the smaller places that we had for the purpose of being able to build these first three vehicles in a space that would allow us to do that. And so it's got enough, uh, space, it's got enough power, it's got the, uh, infrastructure that we'd need to do that in a commercial setting.
[00:32:49] It's not quite pulling it apart like in a 30-station assembly line that we would have for production purposes, which is what we do, what we will do. But it allows us to build it in s- the stages that would equate to the same thing. And so we're proving out- Right ... we're proving out the assembly line and stages as well as the parts and the assembly of the vehicle, and then again, we'll test it in flight to make sure everything in the real world, again, like you say, matches up.
[00:33:18] Um, now we're looking at a vehicle-- Like a ducted fan, like I mentioned, is pretty hard to predict. Um, although on hindsight, I didn't have-- I basically, I didn't have staff that we could really spend the time and dig in and ask the questions that you needed to. When we did, and now I do have that staff, we dug in and, and found those issues, and that's how we could spot.
[00:33:36] We weren't gonna get there that way. We could knew, we knew exactly why it was performing the way it was performing. But now we also have the talent that's, that validates the other side of the equation that this will work, because I, these guys, uh, know enough to, um, to plot that out. And so we're very confident moving forward.
[00:33:54] Um, the wind tunnel showed us everything we needed to there, and we don't have the ducted fan hidden aspect that could bite us. Uh, everything else is pretty much common, um, common practice type things. Although our hybrid system's different. Hybrid system's quite unusual, um, in a good way. Uh, but, but the aerodynamics are pretty straight up.
[00:34:16] AJ: Very good. So, so when is your next kind of validation flight to make sure that you're, you are gonna hit your, uh, target top speed and cruising speed?
[00:34:27] Sam: Yeah. So, um, ground, on the ground we'll be fine 'cause we already tested that and everything worked. The air we'll test in looks like December. Um, I think between now and then.
[00:34:36] We've worked a lot on finance the last six months, um, narrowing down on a, a large deal that will get us all the way through production, which is really nice. And so we're on the last document for that, hopefully within weeks. Uh, that'll pull the trigger on bigger funds, it'll make it go faster, which is always nice to be able to afford to do that.
[00:34:54] Um, and, uh, and December looks like a good time to do it. It's cooler air. Summer's pretty turbulent, you know. You know what it's like in summer, flying in summer. It's bouncy, um, 'cause the heat. So easier time of flying and, uh, and I think it'll be fun. It'll be good to get the team back, the test team back again, and they're excited to go
[00:35:13] AJ: That sounds terrific.
[00:35:15] I, I, um So, so from now till De- December, so the next six months is proving out your production processes-
[00:35:25] Sam: Mm-hmm ...
[00:35:25] AJ: dealing with all of that. Um, and doing all those, all those unglamorous non-engineering things like making sure you can make payroll. And, um, now talk to me, are, are you facing significant regulatory issues?
[00:35:39] Have you had... I mean, I, uh, um, what are the hoops you need to go through in order to bring this to market? And will it be s- when you initially launch it, is it go- still gonna be considered an experimental aircraft? And if so, what are your plans in moving beyond that?
[00:35:56] Sam: Sure. And, um, so we are, uh, like when we first started the, the-- before we even started, my wife and I looked at the marketing and, and the path forward as a business plan.
[00:36:04] Part of that was why have other people not made it successfully? Uh- Mm-hmm ... why is there no commercial success in a flying car? Lots of demand. People are clamoring for it for decades. Why, why hasn't someone made that? And when I searched it out, I saw that the biggest business issue was the two masters, serving two masters.
[00:36:26] You got the FAA on one side, very strict rules, lots of them, and then you'd have the rest of the DOT for the ground for cars, lots of rules, and strict rules there too. And these, these two don't really mesh. They don't talk. Mm-hmm. Two agencies don't talk. They are their own little fiefdoms. So if y- if I was up against that, I wouldn't have tried.
[00:36:49] I would never gone there because it's unworkable. Um, so I looked at aviation. FAA has this, has this thing called experimental aircraft, where most of the cutting edge is developed, all the new stuff. If you want a new aircraft, that's where you go. 20% of the fleet of aircraft in the, in the US, the general aviation, is experimental for that reason.
[00:37:06] It's where you find the latest tech. I had
[00:37:08] AJ: no idea. That's, that's amazing.
[00:37:10] Sam: Yeah. So, um, so there's that one, and there's very little rules to it. On the DOT side, uh, because we chose three wheels, that put us in the motorcycle category on the ground and, you know, car regs, motorcycle regs. So we still have two masters, but little tiny teeth or no teeth.
[00:37:30] And so that is when I decided, "Okay, we can go forward with this," and, uh, 'cause I can win that game. I can, I can absolutely win that game. So the first one is experimental category, and that means that the owner has to build 51% or be responsible for that of the vehicle. They're the owner and manufacturer of record.
[00:37:49] That's the caveat or the, the main thing about that particular brand. Um, and what our job was is to figure out how to make it so that more people could feel confident going forward in doing that, 'cause we had a lot of people who would love to have a flying car. They may not love building it, right? A lot of people- Sure
[00:38:08] but not everybody. So we worked- That's a- ... for eight years to develop now a method of making carbon fiber parts on a automated process that is- Mm ... eight times faster and half the cost of standard carbon fiber. And that was important for us to keep both the price down, but also give us a way to easily train people on an s- on a 30-station assembly line.
[00:38:35] You have to train the person on every step along the way what they're doing. On, on making the parts, and you can do 51%, 50 ... Either way, make the parts or assemble the parts. So you off- only have to learn six machines, and you basically just push the, push the button and keep your hands out while it's doing its thing.
[00:38:56] They're computer-driven processes and, and that still satisfies the FAA. I've checked through different branches of it just to make sure. Mm. Existing companies already using that same sort of a way to do things for their builder assist, and it makes it simple, where a guy can come in and learn that, learn how to make the parts, but in a week they're done, and that's easy.
[00:39:19] Everybody has a week's vacation. So come bring your family, let them go to Disneyland and make parts.
[00:39:24] AJ: So that's a very interesting way to, to drive right through this loophole.
[00:39:30] Sam: Mm.
[00:39:30] AJ: So, so this isn't th- So in your factory- Mm ... you're gonna have customers come in-
[00:39:37] Sam: Mm-hmm ...
[00:39:37] AJ: spend a week, satisfy the 51% requirement-
[00:39:42] Sam: Mm-hmm
[00:39:42] AJ: with you there validating, making sure they're not d- they're not making any mistakes. So it, it takes a lot of the risk of reading instructions, buying a kit, and trying to do it by watching YouTube videos.
[00:39:55] Sam: Mm-hmm.
[00:39:55] AJ: So that's, that, that's fascinating. I, I, I, um- Do you have to, I mean, how do you have to document that?
[00:40:01] Do you have to have it validated? I mean, you know, d- does each, does each individual aircraft need certification for this, um, process or not, or not, or not, or not really? Is it like a spot check sort of thing?
[00:40:13] Sam: No, each one gets documented. Uh, we take videos, photographs to show the person doing the work that they need to be doing to, uh, qualify.
[00:40:22] And then on our part, we're not, we don't need to d- document that anymore. But for our part we do, because our staff then go in on the assembly line and it, they assemble it. That way the assembly line goes at its fastest rate because it's all trained people. You get- Sure ... it only runs at the slowest person you've got.
[00:40:41] So when you have-
[00:40:42] AJ: Yeah ...
[00:40:42] Sam: outside people come in and one guy's really, everybody else is waiting for him, throwing tomatoes. "Come on, keep going." But, uh, but that way you get it all done, and then we video photograph and also do quality control checks along the way.
[00:40:55] AJ: Sure, sure.
[00:40:55] Sam: So with the parts, uh, making the parts, they all get scanned so that we know before the guy leaves all his parts are good.
[00:41:01] He did a good job making all the parts, and, uh, that's gets part of the records, and that gets in a document binder. The FAA comes with their inspector, looks over everything, says, "Okay, you, you showed 51%. You showed it came from a kit, and, uh, and it's good to go." So we do that as a matter of course for the person as they, as they, as the vehicle goes all the way through
[00:41:25] AJ: So it's BYOP, build your own plane.
[00:41:29] Yeah. Well, and car. And car. It's-
[00:41:32] Sam: And it's an experience- So- ... of a lifetime. I mean, it-- You don't have to tell people it's easy to do. You, you just did, you just built your own aircraft. So just, you know-
[00:41:41] AJ: I- ...
[00:41:41] Sam: I'm good.
[00:41:41] AJ: No, I, I, I, I love... Look, so much of the success or failure of a product comes down to how you package it.
[00:41:48] I, I love how you package this, this assembly piece to-
[00:41:52] Sam: Mm ...
[00:41:52] AJ: get the regulatory hurdle cleared and-
[00:41:55] Sam: Mm ...
[00:41:55] AJ: yeah, I mean, this sounds a lot more exciting than just picking up your new BMW at the factory in Germany and driving it home. I mean, this is- Yes ... this is- We'll, we'll
[00:42:04] Sam: have that too. We'll have fully built vehicles in the future, but, but right now we're starting with this one.
[00:42:10] AJ: Well, fantastic. Well, well look, I, I appreciate you, uh, coming on our, our podcast. Um, I wish you the best of luck. Um, are there any, are there any parting words you wanna give the audience? Uh, you know, if you could shamelessly promote your s- your, yourself, I'd, I'd, I, I'd like you to do that because I want you to win here.
[00:42:30] Sam: Oh, well, sure. Well, um, I'll, I'll mention, w- uh, samsonsky.com, S-A-M-S-O-N-S-K-Y.com, our website. From there you can launch on our YouTube sites, uh, Facebook, um, you know, all the other, Instagrams, whatever we do. But, uh, but it's a pretty good website. It goes over lots of different stuff with videos on it and everything.
[00:42:47] You'll enjoy it. Um, it's worth a, it's worth a look. And for others, you know, following your dream is always, always good advice. You follow your heart on, on what you wanna do, but, but be proficient. If you don't know something, it ta- it takes a wise person to know what you don't know or that you don't know everything.
[00:43:04] And so-
[00:43:05] AJ: Right ...
[00:43:05] Sam: figure out your strengths, notice your weaknesses, find the people that balance out, uh, and make up for that, and get a team together that, uh, that brings off the win in the end. And, and just trust yourself to see it through and persevere and, and, uh, I think that's really what it boils down to.
[00:43:21] If you really want this, you really want it, you can get it. If you want this thing done, you can find a way. So get your desire up, get your horsepower going, and, uh, and don't back down.
[00:43:35] AJ: Words of wisdom, my friend. Words of wisdom. Thank you so much.
[00:43:41] Sam: Yeah, you bet, AJ. Thanks for having me on. You know, it was an honor.
[00:43:44] AJ: Thanks for listening to this episode of The Value Creation Mindset. I'm AJ Singh. If this episode helped you, please follow the show, leave a rating, and share it with one person who you think it will benefit. For show notes and more, visit modularius.com/podcast. See you next time.