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Three guys who don't know anything demonstrate how things used to be, by having civil discussion about opposing views.
Welcome everybody to Outside the Algorithm. This is a brand new podcast, a brand new podcast that we hope you all will continue to listen into for some time in the future. Well, what's it about? I know you're asking. Asking.
DC:What's it about? And basically, we got three guys here. Three normal can we call ourselves Normans?
RC:We're normies.
PJ:Kind of not normal, but
RC:that's Well, okay.
DC:Well, you know, in the grand scheme of things, when we look at what's going on in the world, I consider myself pretty normal. But anyway, it's three normal guys sitting around talking about stuff that we probably have no business talking about.
RC:Oh, guarantee you that. Hey. There's we have I major in nothing. Nice.
DC:Well, anyway, I'm DC. I'm here with RC.
PJ:And I'm PJ.
DC:And today, we are gonna be talking about tell us, RC. What do we got?
RC:We are going to be talking about the rise of socialism in America. So I know that, you know, some people hear the word socialism and they're like, rah rah. And some people think that it's like the the most dangerous thing that could ever happen in The United States.
DC:So what you're saying is that people are taking extreme views of things.
PJ:Yeah. Thank you. No way. Yeah. In America.
RC:No. That's crazy talk. No. We can't do that.
PJ:The rise of socialism, Yep.
RC:The rise of socialism. I mean, because right now, it's like young people I I think it's especially with with the younger generation. And I've understandably so. I think in a lot, you know, a lot of their minds would say they feel disenfranchised because the generations that have come before them have eaten everything up and there's there's not a whole lot left.
DC:I think that's true. I I think that's true. As far as their perception of what's happening, I believe that's true.
RC:Well, yeah. Because I mean, what what do they what do I read not too long ago that the age for a level of entry into buying a new home nowadays has gone up to, like, into the four into the age age of their forties.
DC:I actually heard into the fifties now.
RC:It could be in the fifties by now, forgotten.
PJ:Yeah. Who
DC:knows? Fact check us on that, we're going be saying that a lot.
RC:Yeah. Oh yeah. Premise this with
PJ:Yeah, but I I I think where where we where we're missing the mark is, you know, both sides when they use terms like socialism, communism, dictatorship, everybody jumps to these extremes and they're not using, I I said it earlier, intellectual honesty about it. The rise of socialism, what do you mean by the rise of socialism? What's your category? What's the definition of socialism are you talking about? Mhmm.
PJ:If you're talking about democratic socialist programs, I'm for tons of them. I think we should have more democratic socialist programs only because I think The United States needs them, you know. But then you have people who who when you say democratic socialist programs, they think you mean socialism and they're quite different things. Right. You know, the US military is a democratic socially programmed.
PJ:We have the number one military in the world, the most powerful military in the world and it's a democratic socialist program. Do our tax dollars go to fund it? Yeah. And we have most of that.
DC:And there's a place for it. Yeah. There's a I I fully agree that there are a place for those things. I think where where it gets lost is when you have people who come to a conclusion that those things are expected and required. And I think that's a a big disparity between the two sides of this issue.
DC:So
PJ:Like what? Give me an example of what you're
DC:talking about. I have I have two young boys. I say young, they're 21 and 19.
PJ:Just dating yourself.
DC:I'm old, by the way.
RC:Hey, I'm old too and I have an eight and 11 year old.
DC:Well, they're
PJ:Just saying. You could play into that, though.
DC:But they're these boys have always had really good heads on their shoulders.
RC:Yeah. They have really have.
DC:They are they're responsible. I I've taught them, you know, about work ethic and the things that the the things that I felt were most important for them to get ahead in life. And they've taken those things to heart much more so than I did when I was their age. And yet, my oldest is getting ready to get married. And he and his fiance are talking about what their living situation is going to be when they get married.
DC:And they are both dead set against having any amount of time where they make sacrifice and live with somebody else so they can save up some money. That's a problem with the young generation as well. So we I don't think there's any generation that has come before who has gone into their adulthood expecting that things should just be taken care of for them. Does that make sense?
PJ:Yeah. Yeah. But I but I am.
RC:Since, since our generation.
PJ:I think, I think, think what we're missing is in that is the, the root problem and it's, it's things have changed so dramatically from when our parents were kids, from when we were kids to where our children are adults now. Economically? Economically speaking, like, you know, the price of a candy bar right now is $2. $2.59 for the regular one. We used to pay 50¢ for.
DC:Yeah.
PJ:That's in our lifetime. Now, has the cost of earning what you make dollar per hour when you work a job, has that gone up exponentially? No.
DC:I know. I totally agree.
PJ:So it's like Yeah. It's it's this weird curve that, and I'm just going say it, they're fucked. They're fucked from the beginning because Mhmm. They make less and everything is way more expensive. And if we look back to when we were kids, things started to get expensive and we were like, Jesus Christ, this is this is expensive.
PJ:And then you look at when our parents were the ones who had the generational wealth, things were cheap for a very long time and their salaries were right in line with the cost of things. Yeah. Mhmm. And slowly but surely, the corporations, don't come kill me, they started making more money and giving out less. Trickle down economics doesn't work.
PJ:We know that rich people do not share.
RC:We're, yeah, I Yeah. The more
DC:you have, typically the more you want to hang on to what you have.
PJ:And that's never going to change until there's a dramatic change in, in our economic structure, our class structure.
RC:Well, I think that's part of the reason we're here. I think, you know, because
PJ:We're starting to revolutionize. We
DC:might. You never know.
RC:Well, you know what? I kind of do in in a way, but I and not in the way that, you know, I feel like the social media algorithms are pushing us to do these days, which is to fight it out and, you know, battle left and right between ourselves. My push in the the the revolution that I would like to see started is down the middle of the road. I'm I'm I want the independence to rise up and be like, look, and tell the the far the the far wings of each party to shut the fuck up and let's actually work on things that are actually going to help our future generations and let's stop all the bickering and all the bullshit Yeah. And let's let's let's look for some real goddamn answers to some serious goddamn questions.
PJ:Well, I think I think our government has forgotten about compromise and that compromise is something that that has always been done until the eighties. And and and I'll be as brutally honest as you can.
RC:That's what this is about. On
PJ:Newt Gingrich changed the the face of politics and how he does politics. Newt Gingrich is the Don King of politics. You know? He he turned it into a spectacle, and it's never and it's only gotten worse. And, you know, Trump played into it.
PJ:He knows he knows how to play the game. He's a showman. And he played into it, and and it got him where he is now. It doesn't benefit anyone but him. And like most politicians who are in office for years and years and years and years, they're there to benefit themselves.
PJ:They're not trying to help us, the people. And that's just my, this is my opinion. You know, both sides do it. They're in and they they they go into politics and they, you know, they make their $170,000 a year and, you know, they may have a million dollars billion a
DC:dollars on Just $3,000,000,000 insider trading.
PJ:And then and and then ten, twenty years in, they're multimillionaires. Okay. Yeah. You make $170,000 a year. How does that happen?
PJ:Yeah. Like how does that happen? It happens because you're crooked.
RC:Yeah.
DC:The whole system is corrupt left and right. I think we could probably all agree on that.
RC:I agree.
DC:I think it kind of going back to what you were talking to about the the economic situation that the young people are in, 100% agree. They are screwed. But at the same time, what we see is that not only is their situation getting screwed, but they're also being driven to a more extreme point of view. I call it extreme. Maybe that's not the right word, but a a more polarized point of view at the same time.
DC:And now you've got just like everything else in society now, and we're gonna get into it a lot of these topics as we go into future episodes of this podcast.
RC:Absolutely. Yeah.
DC:Is the theme of division. Right? Yes. Division is everywhere, and division, in my opinion, is designed.
RC:Oh, absolutely. I I think so too.
DC:It's it's pushed on us. It is it because that is the that is the tool by which they can keep the rest of us controlled, submissive, complacent, stupid, what you know, whatever adjective you wanna put in there, and that's their that's their bargaining chip.
RC:Yeah. Well, so I I I can see what you're saying where it's by design, but I think a lot of it also is it's nature playing itself out through social media with in the social media algorithms that that divide people because they they create an echo chamber because all they all those algorithms are designed to do is show you more shit of what you already want to see.
PJ:Yes. But who's who's designing those algorithms? Yes. Exactly. Who's telling those people to make those algorithms?
PJ:Yeah. You know, I agree with you when you said, you know, it is by design, it's sleight of hand. It's to keep us fighting on this shit while they pull the biggest, you know Heists. Rug pool. Yeah.
RC:Yeah. Well, one of them.
PJ:So they're coming for us, guys. I just want you all to know. They don't know they don't know
RC:my address. Well, no. And and and and this is gonna be a topic for a completely other day, you know, and but I just I I feel like I need to touch on it here because it it it, you know, kinda ties into what we're talking about. It's like everything that was happening up in Minnesota. You know, I can't help but feel like a large part of that was by design to try to keep the eyes off the fraud.
PJ:Oh, 100%. And the Epstein files and all all all the stuff going on right now. It's crazy. Yeah. It's insane.
PJ:100%.
DC:Yeah. I mean, there's there's proof that a lot of what was happening up there was being funded. I even heard there was a a retired Green Beret who wrote a letter to send to some officials, and I can't remember I can't remember who he sent the letter to, but it was I was listening to a podcast where this this guy who basically read the entire thing word for word. And to summarize what he was talking about, he said that he could not believe in looking at what was happening in Minnesota and with a lot of the other situations with protests and things like that going on right now, just how coordinated it was. He said, coming from his standpoint, who that's what he did is infiltrate other countries and use these these kind of tactics to bring down governments, to find you know what I'm saying?
DC:So he knew what he was talking about, and he was basically saying, this is the playbook. They are using the playbook. And if they're using the playbook, we should be scared shitless right now.
RC:Oh, and I think a lot of us are. Yeah. I, you know, I I I think a lot of us are.
DC:But but he couldn't he couldn't tell you who was running the playbook. And I think that, again
PJ:The retardians. Oh. Lizard people. Lizard people. Lizard
DC:We we may we may take this podcast on a tangent at some point because it's something I should say. And this is probably something we should have set
RC:up for towards the We just kinda jumped right into we didn't even introduce ourselves.
DC:Oh, we said we we know we said who we were, but so DC here, I I am the local I'm I'm we're gonna call me a conservative because I as much as I hate labels and I hate titles, that is certainly where my, where more of my views tend to land is on the conservative side of things. I am not a Republican. Do not ever call me a republican. We will have words. But I'm a conservative.
DC:I have conservative values. I am another moniker that I'm not gonna give myself is Christian. Although I do attend a Christian church, I am not a Christian. I am not religious. I follow Jesus Christ.
DC:I believe the Bible is 100% true. I take it very seriously. That's my point of view. That's where I come from. So that's me.
RC:This is RC. I am again, don't don't love labels, but the closest label I could find to my my beliefs would be libertarian. So I've always believed in, you know, smaller government, always been distrustful of the government. I believe that we as people we used to I feel like we used to have the wherewithal to govern ourselves. I feel like we were, you know, as a people educated enough with it, we, know, we we could make our own decisions.
RC:I believe in critical thinking. I do consider myself Christian, I guess, but I'm not really huge in the I'm spiritual, I guess I could say more so I'm spiritual than I am. I'm not religious at all. I don't I do not like organized religions.
DC:Neither do I.
RC:Because I know I'm just, you know, to me to me there's that's just another just another evil corporation,
PJ:really.
RC:And, yeah, I mean that's that's in that's pretty much where I am. I don't I don't know what else to say That's
PJ:that's totally fine. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I am PJ and I am a liberal.
PJ:I am also a Christian. I do believe you should follow the book, the good book, but I also believe that the book is man's interpretation of God's word.
RC:I agree with that. I
PJ:grew up going to church. I went to church all through high school and I don't go to church very often now, but I pray every day. So I consider myself a Christian and I'm religious. When it comes to the government and corporations, I would trust the government before I would trust corporations. And one of reason why I say this because corporations are based on profitability and they don't really give a shit if someone dies over profitability.
PJ:And I know people say the government will kill people as well
RC:Yes.
PJ:And make it
RC:I would say
PJ:that. I will say I know they do, but they do it for the betterment of the country versus the government or versus a corporation that would do things like that for profitability. So Eileen, like I said, on the side, but I also believe in critical thinking and I also believe in intellectual honesty and one of the key things you're going to hear me say is if you can't call out the bullshit on your own side, you're either two things, not honest enough to have a conversation with me or not intelligent enough. Because both sides play the game. Yeah.
PJ:And until we get to a point to where we can call out the BS and stop playing Don King's version of politics, we're gonna be in this this muck for for a very long time.
RC:So I know you're liberal, but what when I've known you for a long long time. I do not put you in the same liberal camp as a lot of the far left stuff that we see. Well, but Craziness that
PJ:Yeah. Yeah. But let's like say in a conservative, you know, like I have tons of conservative friends and they're not the the racist white nationalist that's on the conservative side. Like, it's you you can you can I'm a liberal. I'm not an extreme liberal.
PJ:I I don't believe in all the things that some of the people on the extreme left say. Just like my friends who are conservative, they don't believe in the white nationalists, they don't believe in in racism and they don't believe in you know, it's it's so funny. It's like I do have a friend of mine who thinks that every republican is a racist. That's the most ridiculous thing I think I've ever heard in my entire life. That makes no sense to me.
DC:The extremes that we're being pushed to believe these days But it's on both
PJ:sides. Right. And it's not critically thinking about this one key element. You have to be intellectually honest with yourself. You honestly think that just because someone voted for Donald Trump, they're racist.
PJ:The answer is no. They could have a reason or a belief. And here's what I always say. I did not vote for Al Gore. I voted Republican once because Al Gore and Tipper Gore did that whole censorship bullshit, and it and it it screwed me on a band I had at the time that had a CD release party and that law came out and then we had to get the little fucking stickers put on.
PJ:And Oh, yeah. We missed our CD release party. We played it, but we didn't have CDs because we couldn't get them because Oh of that one
DC:my goodness.
PJ:And so it it stuck with me. So when he ran, I said my principles, because I believe that families should raise their kids, not the government.
DC:Amen.
PJ:I said, I can't vote for that guy and I can't vote for that bitch, Tipper Kourt. I'm sorry, but I won't do it. And I didn't. And I voted republican. That's the only time I've ever voted republican.
PJ:Mhmm. I voted democratically ever since. But, people can have those views. There could be something that someone votes a conservative way once. It doesn't mean they're a horrible person.
PJ:It doesn't mean something they had conviction. Something made them vote that way. Everybody this is America, dude. Like, we have a right in America to vote any way we want. It doesn't make you a bad person.
PJ:It doesn't make you now if as I told you, people don't know this, but I'm gonna say it. I'm a black person. I'm black. What? Right?
PJ:No. But what I'm saying is what I'm saying is people have a right. If you want to be racist, I don't give a shit. Be racist. You can you can be in your home and and and be the most racist motherfucker in the world, but if you tell me I can't go into a store because of the color of my skin, Yeah.
PJ:Then I got a But you have this is America.
RC:You have
PJ:a right to be racist. I don't give a shit about you. I don't care. Yeah. Do it.
PJ:But if you try to keep me from living my life the way you're living your life, then I got a fucking problem. That's where I draw the line.
DC:Like To me that sounds very libertarian, you know what I mean?
PJ:You think that's libertarian?
DC:It's yeah. I feel like that's that's a
PJ:It's like saying I I believe I have a friend of mine who's atheist. He doesn't believe in God. This is America. Yeah. He shouldn't be stoned for that.
PJ:He shouldn't be drawn and quartered and and chastised for that. Hey, dude. You got an answer to that. I don't. Right.
PJ:You know? I love you. You're my friend. It is what it is. And that's kind of how I feel about, you know, the this is America.
PJ:You have a right to have beliefs that you want. You can be pro life. You can be pro choice. You know? That's your decision.
PJ:Yeah. You can't tell me though that you're pro life and then secretly you get a girl pregnant and you go get an abortion. You're not being intellectually Right. You know, honest. Right.
PJ:It's like you're you're you're a piece of shit.
DC:So PJ, can I ask you, how does that translate then into your beliefs on other people speaking into someone's life and decisions and choices? And the reason I bring that up is, say it was somebody that you knew who was pregnant, who was talking about getting an abortion, and you felt convicted that that was the wrong thing to do. Do you feel like it's a better choice to say nothing and let that person live their own life and make their own choices? Or do you would you feel motivated to
PJ:Do I know this person? Am I gonna be somebody that you know? Yes. Well, if I have a relationship with them, I would hope I have the kind of relationship I can be honest and and tell them, you know, hey, you know, I feel this way about that or whatever. And I'm I'm pro choice, just so you guys know.
PJ:But I I would think that I would have that kind of relationship that, you know, I could have that conversation and I wouldn't hold any judgment. Would just give them my opinion. Sure. And what they what they do is what they do. I wouldn't, if I have a relationship with them, I'm going to love them regardless.
PJ:So it's like, hey, I don't think, I think that's a bad idea, I think you should have the kid and if you get an abortion, which I would be like, if you want to get an abortion, get an abortion, that's your call. I am I am pro choice. But let's say I wasn't and say, let's say that I was pro life. I believe I would say, I think it's a bad idea. Kid's beautiful.
PJ:Could be a beautiful kid. You'll never know what what's gonna happen. But if she does that, I'm not going to chastise her, not want to be her friend and not want to be around her, I'm going to love her really. You made a decision, that was your decision. Okay.
PJ:You have to you have to, you know
RC:I I I would say similar. I guess I guess I would almost have to say that I am pro choice only because of the fact I mean, personally, pro life. But for others, pro choice. Do you know what I'm saying? Sure.
RC:Yeah.
PJ:You have a belief you wouldn't do it.
RC:I have a belief that, you know, I would never do that. I wouldn't I would never want a, you know, anyone I'm in a relationship with. I'm like Sure. I wanna keep that child. But at the same time, I, you know, to say that to take that choice away from people and to basically, you know, to push things back to where women are going to sketchy places to have it done.
RC:It's it's not as hell, you know, it's a lot more unsafe and that sort of thing. Because I mean, you're never gonna change anybody's mind. That that that and I think that's one of the things that that, you know, I wanna state about this podcast too. We're not here to change each other's minds. We are here to present What?
RC:I know. I know you're see you.
PJ:I knew you were talking.
RC:No. No. I mean, we're not here to change people's minds. My hope with this podcast is that it just gets people thinking again. It gets us all back to critical thinking again.
RC:You know what I mean? And making this making choices for ourselves and understanding what we believe, you know, as what what you, you know, what an individual believes versus what they're being told to believe Sure. By by the two sides. And I, you know, I look at that is, you know, I would rather if a woman is determined to kill the child, then at least do it someplace safe and do they give her some a place to actually, you know, where she'll survive the procedure. Yeah.
RC:You know what I mean?
PJ:And not and not not ruin it so where she can't have kids over again. Exactly.
RC:Yeah. I mean, that that's again, that's just where I come from. But personally, it's like I don't I don't think it's right. Look at it as killing babies. That's the way I always have looked at it.
DC:But Well, and and But
RC:I feel like the I feel like the far left is not pro choice. I feel like they are pro abortion.
PJ:Yeah. I mean, I don't know
DC:that there's I don't know
PJ:that I would I think that's that that's the right too. The right is is pro is is against abortion, but they're not pro life because they don't give a shit about these poor kids and they're that you pull yourself up by your bootstrap and and, you know Right. It's
DC:like Boy, that's a okay. That's a great segue back into the social socialism. We kinda got off track there a little bit. PJ just nailed it, man. Go ahead with your thought.
DC:I'm sorry.
PJ:Didn't mean to interrupt you.
RC:Yeah. No.
PJ:I I feel like we are the greatest nation in the world.
DC:I agree.
RC:I would agree.
PJ:We are running at 25% of our potential of what we can do if we choose to do it.
DC:Sure. I I I that's I think that's a fair argument, yeah.
PJ:We could do everything we need socially to help every single person that needs help and still be profitable and still live the lifestyles we live. Okay. Nothing would change if we chose to do the right thing. And the sad thing is is, he's raising his hand. You're good at me, go ahead.
PJ:Complete that thought. Complete that thought. The the problem is is so much there's so much corruption in corporations, so much corruption in in dealings with corporation and lobbying and lobbyists and I think all that shit should go away. If we just focus on what's important and that's the citizens of The United States, to make sure that all citizens of The United States have what it need have the resources needed to thrive. Now you're going have some outliers, you always will.
PJ:You'll always have people who game the system, get them out of the system, prosecute those people. You're always going have people who just don't want to work. You can find things for them to do. You can. I'm telling you, you can do it.
RC:But can you make them do it?
PJ:That that's the thing. It's so so
DC:the way You just hit my point.
RC:So so what what I way What's I look at
PJ:the percentage of people and let me what's the percentage of people that would say I'm just not gonna do it?
RC:I honestly don't know because Just give me a guesstimate. Maybe five percent?
DC:30.
RC:So you think it's higher?
PJ:I I disagree with 30. I'm I'm I think it's probably going to be around 10? Yeah. Think 10 is still high. If you think about The United States, most people want to be successful.
PJ:Most people. Not not 30%. There's no way 30% people want to be shitbags. It's impossible. I believe that most most people want to be successful.
PJ:So I'll say five, maybe 7% are going to be, I'm not going to work. But think about this, 93% of The United States will be profitable, prospering and doing great. It's worth it's worth that 7%.
RC:Right. My my question is though, how how how do you keep it from, you know, how do you keep that 95% from being really pissed off at that 5%? You know what I'm saying? But you don't. I yeah.
PJ:You don't. I think that people won't care because their lives will be so much better than what it is now and their lives will be better than their the the 7% that's not doing shit, their lives will be so far superior to theirs, they'll be like, you better get off your ass. Yeah.
DC:You know? I you guys both lived through COVID just like I did. Mhmm.
PJ:Yeah.
DC:Do we not remember what happened post COVID or even during COVID? The way people were acting, the way people were were treating the system, the way people are still abusing the system because of that. That's why I say thirty percent.
RC:He's got a story.
PJ:Yeah. But I don't want to talk about that. Okay. I'll talk about that offline.
DC:So But it but that but that kind of to me, this all goes back to I think in theory, and this has kind of always been my issue with socialism, is the theory of socialism is beautiful. This utopia where everybody has what they need, everyone's taken care of, but I just don't see it working in reality. And the reason is because of the forced nature. So, again, I'm a Bible believing follower of Jesus Christ. What did he say?
DC:Give up everything and follow me. There's talk in the bible. There are scriptures in the bible that talk about his followers giving up all that they own and putting it into a pool and living as a community and dude, that sounds like socialism. Right? No.
DC:Because that was voluntary. They did it out of their own free will.
PJ:Yeah. I mean, but Jesus also said it's easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than it is for a rich man to get into the gates of heaven.
DC:That is true. But the verse directly following that said that nothing is impossible with God. If it were just man Sure. That would be the case. But with him and with God, anything is possible.
DC:Meaning that even the rich man can enter the kingdom of heaven. Right. It's all about your heart.
RC:God knows your heart. So basically I agree
DC:with that.
RC:So basically, it kind of goes back to what I what what I was alluding to earlier and I don't think I've fully got it all out, but was that there there I feel like there was a time when people had more of God, religion, whatever, you know. Other other things tell, you know, telling them that, you know, what's right, what's wrong.
DC:Sure. A moral compass for lack of better term.
RC:Yes. Thank you. A more I couldn't I couldn't quite get get my get get there. But yeah, a moral compass. I I don't feel like people have that as much anymore.
PJ:I mean, I think moral compass is there, it's just shaded by political beliefs. You talked about COVID, they were companies that got loans and then those loans were forgiven.
DC:Oh yeah. Oh, the abuse was there too.
RC:I agree.
PJ:But it but some of it's not abuse, some of it was to help the companies get through and money was given to them and that sort of thing is socialism. The only difference is it went to the corporations and not to the people. So to say that
DC:And I disagree with it going to the corporations
PJ:as But what I'm saying is that it did. Yeah. It went to the corporations. Right. And then they forgave it.
PJ:Yeah. So they didn't have to pay it back. So that's socialism in a sense, but it went to the corporations and not to individuals. Right. So the belief that we already have forms of democratic social, and I'm going to say democratic socialism and not socialism.
PJ:Because socialism isn't is a completely different thing than democratic socialist.
RC:So would you would you say that democratic socialism is more like a market society like they have in was it like Sweden or Denmark? I'm trying to remember where it is over there. Some it's where they have large welfare programs, but it still functions as some as a
PJ:Yeah. I mean, that's that's it's voted on where the money goes, like we decide, you know, we can decide where the money goes and the money comes in. It's it's just like perfect example is look at how our military, look at how MoDOT, when you drive down the street, in most cases Don't get me
DC:started on MoDOT.
PJ:Some states you have tolls, but in Missouri there are no tolls. Or in St. Louis area, I don't know if there's
DC:There are some down at the lake.
PJ:Down at the lake. Yeah. Most places there's they're not. Could you imagine if we didn't have a democratic socialist program like MoDOT and then you had to pay every time you drove down the road? That would suck.
DC:Right? I I I feel like I don't have enough information to know whether or not that would suck or not. That's I think that's my standpoint. And and I'll use an I'll kind of a a parallel example. I think about the insurance programs.
DC:Are forced in many cases to have health insurance, car insurance, you know, whatever the case may be. The the to me, the biggest offender is the the health industry. I think that's a complete disaster because of the fact that we have pushed corporate either companies and everybody is big business, small business individuals to follow these paths that they have set out before us. And from my perspective, all it has done is empowered corporations. And let's be honest, most health companies or organizations, right, you got your SSMs out here, you got your Mercy's and all these people.
DC:It's ridiculous what they charge for simple services anymore. I remember being a kid, my mom would take me to the doctor, our physician, and she'd write him a check, and we'd walk out the door. That was and it wasn't a co pay. That was the payment for the services rendered. And I feel like if that were taken back to a free market, we would see a much better, a much more affordable system for you and me.
DC:It's crazy what people have to pay. I agree. I will say companies. And when I say companies, I don't mean the big corporations. I'm talking about medium business, small businesses.
DC:These people that gotta pay when they bring especially when they bring on employees. The amount of money that they have to pay. You hire somebody for $50, you end up spending into 6 figures to have that person on your staff. It's Just because of all the other crap.
PJ:Pretty expensive. Yeah.
DC:It's very expensive.
PJ:I'm a business owner and yeah. And and and it's a lot. But here's what I'll say. I agree with part of what you said. There was a time where, yeah, you could pay.
PJ:And my opinion is, and this is just my opinion, the corporations got greedy.
DC:Oh, yeah. And they're always going
PJ:to change
DC:the what's price. Going to happen.
PJ:That's that's what that's what happens when you have crony capitalism. You know, the price started to skyrocket and then they tried to figure out a way to consolidate things and these corporations started to come. And, you know, the government with Obamacare, the Care Act joined in to try to make health care affordable. Then they came up with the CARE Act to kind of help the subsidies to do that. And the problem is, is, and this is just me, but I think that we should have a universal plan, just like we do our government, our military, just like some of these other countries that have it now that are not nearly as incredible of a company as we are.
PJ:And and, you know, we had that conversation the other day and you brought up Canada and and that's that is the cookie cutter excuse that people throw anytime someone says, I believe we should have universal aid. Yeah, but Canada. Yeah, but Canada. I'm not cookie cutter. I'm not saying Son of a bitch.
PJ:I'm saying it's just a talking point. The last time I checked, this is America. Yeah. We can do everything better. So you take what works and what doesn't work and you make it better here.
PJ:I think that if companies like my company, if I had a, if we had a universal healthcare plan, then I could put the money that I pay in insurance towards my employee's retirement. Okay. I can't do that now because expense, I think our cost went up 23% this year for health care costs. So, you know, already we're paying a shit ton of money and it just went up 23%. So it's like, okay, so I'm never able to take care of my employees the way I want to.
PJ:I want to have a retirement plan. I want to bring back pensions, you know? And they took away those things. And they took away those things because the cost of insurance is so high companies can't afford to do it. So if you had a universal healthcare plan and people go, we can't afford that, the fuck you can't.
PJ:When my mom was sick in the hospital before she passed away, I saw the price of some of the things they were charging her. $17 for Tylenol for a day? Mhmm. $17 for four Tylenol?
DC:And that seems low to me. It seems like it could they they rip people off even more than that in some
PJ:like cases. You go, you gotta be kidding me. I could buy a bottle that would last my mom a month for $17. Yeah. And my mom is in the hospital for a month and a half and I have to pay $17 a day for Tylenol?
PJ:Are you shitting me right now? On top of all the other expenses. But if the government ran that, the government would say, how much does that and this is what I would do if I was the government, how much does that town hall cost to produce? 3¢? You can charge us 5¢.
PJ:Right. You can make a little bit of You can make
DC:a little bit.
PJ:But you're not gonna rape me over the coals over time.
RC:But the problem is rape Jesus Christ.
DC:Guys, don't rape anybody over the coals. Yes. Kids, don't try this at home.
RC:No. But so I I I hear what you're saying and and and I get it. But on the the pitfall I see with with that approach is that whereas I agree, we can and we should do it better, but will we? No. No.
RC:It's No. What and so hear me out though. To me, it's like I'll just say, you know, it's like it's just so people listening understand, we're all in our fifties.
DC:Can out of the bag.
PJ:I can cut I can cut that out if
RC:you guys want. But anyway
DC:No.
RC:It's fine. You know, so I but just so people understand where we're coming from. So it's just to under we know there there's a lot of lived experience here.
DC:Yeah. Well, we've seen some shit.
RC:So We've some shit. Yes. So I've seen some shit. And what I've seen is Shit. Anytime yeah.
RC:I've seen shit. Anytime that the government gets involved, the price goes up and the quality goes down.
DC:Yes.
RC:Yes. So I mean, to me, it's like, wouldn't it be more beneficial to a company to just do away with health insurance, go back to, you know, these these doctors that have their own, you know, practices that
PJ:Yeah. They set
RC:their price. Do they Yeah. They can set their price, then what they think that they're worth. Yeah. If they're fucking better than somebody else, then you can charge more and people wanna pay that fine.
RC:If you have enough people, you know, whatever. You don't have to worry about who's in your fucking network.
DC:Right.
RC:You don't have to worry about you can go see whoever you want. You don't have to worry about preexisting conditions, and instead of employers offering you the health insurance, you get rid of the stipulation that an HSA is only for somebody who has a high deductible
DC:Oh my gosh. It's the worst.
RC:Yeah. You you can only have a high deductible, you know, health care plan in order to have an HSA. Why don't why don't the the companies just fund an HSA for their employees and then you can use then their employees just use that money for their their medical expenses.
PJ:You're not alleviating the problem of of how expensive medical expenses are.
RC:But that's just it. When if if you go back to if you go back to a free
DC:Free market market. Yeah.
RC:Then that will bring the costs down because now you've got to compete.
DC:Against competition. They can still make money. But So Okay. Crony capitalism sucks. The kind of capitalism you're describing works.
DC:The problem is no system is perfect.
RC:No. There well, yeah,
DC:there's no purpose. I would never be the person to argue that capitalism is the be all end all, but I feel like it's the best thing we got. I know that people say that a lot, but I do tend to agree with it.
PJ:See, I I hear you, but I think the government's the best thing we have. Because See, I we put we elect we can elect who we want in, we can vote people out.
RC:But can we? I'm sorry, I don't mean to cut
PJ:you I really don't Hopefully, mean we'll see about in
RC:2020 No. We'll see what happens there. No. But I'm But I'm just saying, I I don't know about you guys, but I've seen plenty of primary races where it's like, I I don't feel like the best guy always wins. And and I feel like we're always Sure.
RC:We're always down to a lesser of two evils. Sure.
PJ:But you're looking at you're you're you're trying to assume that corporations are gonna do the right thing, and they won't. No. No.
DC:No. No. I'm no. No. That's the shit.
DC:People won't necessarily do the and that's what all this comes down to is that at the end of the day, it's of any system would be great if it weren't for the shitbags. Yes. But there's always gonna be shitbags So you screw that
PJ:up for somebody else. Regulation to to do it. I know you're a libertarian, and you don't have a liberation. Of shitbags too. I know.
PJ:But they are, in my opinion, and the people hate it when I say this, the less Oh, the lesser of government. Two evils. Because I don't know.
DC:I think they're both evil.
PJ:I'm not saying the government's not evil. I think the government is. But I think when it comes to corporations, I think they are I mean, like corporations will look at something and be like, okay, this product, okay, we know it's going to blow up in people's faces. What's it going to cost for us to pull this off the shelves? Okay.
PJ:What's the cost of our liability if we get sued? Whichever is cheaper is the route we're going to go. Right. The government doesn't do that. The government goes
DC:I don't know if Well, I agree with
PJ:most cases, in most cases, I think the government would go, alright, this blows up, tell everybody it fucking blows up, it just is what it is. They're not going to try to look at him like, let's not say anything because if they'll they they can sue us, that's gonna be less. They don't have that mentality. Their mentality is it either blows up or it doesn't. If it blows up, alright.
PJ:We gotta pull it. It just is what it is.
DC:RC, I think you are probably will agree with me on this that the government is probably the worst offender in in my perspective of what he's describing. He's saying the corporations aren't are you know, they're never gonna do this. They're never gonna do this. I see the government being worse at committing those
PJ:Commit a sample.
RC:Well You have one? I don't know. And and maybe I'm It's kind
PJ:of hard
DC:to think. I can. I can.
PJ:You gotta think about it. Yeah.
DC:Yeah. Give me a second.
RC:Maybe I'm deluded in thinking this. I very well could be.
PJ:Deluded?
RC:Yes. I I feel like we have limited control over the government because of our votes. I think we have more power over corporations because we can just not buy their shit.
DC:Not buy their shit. Sure.
PJ:Some corporations, yes, but not all. And I feel like chicken tonight. Sorry. I couldn't let that go. That was a dad joke and then I couldn't let it go.
PJ:Sorry.
RC:I think there's
PJ:there's there's some things like necessities that we need. Health care is one.
RC:Oh
PJ:yeah. I mean, the scary thing is we are the greatest nation in the world and now seventy, eighty percent of us are one healthcare scare away from being bankrupt.
RC:I agree. No. Yeah. Absolutely.
PJ:But how did how did we
DC:get to be the greatest nation in the world?
PJ:By having a powerful middle class and and growing our citizens into greatness.
DC:Yes. But I think but I think that's what we're missing.
RC:Yeah. We're losing that because the the middle class has disappeared. Yeah.
PJ:How do you do that? Back then, there were more socialist type programs back then than there are now. There was a push towards all of that stuff, FDR and all the stuff that he did. That's all socialist democratic socialist programs, and and those have dwindled away, and now we've let the corporations in crony capitalism take over this country, and now we are in the spot that we are. This is just my opinion.
PJ:I could be completely wrong.
DC:Well, this this may be where my, I mean, I'm not gonna say I'm ignorant of history, but I'm not a history buff. So I I completely have to go off of what you're saying to I I don't know. I'd have to go back and look and see.
PJ:Look up the brand new deal and look up what all the stuff that that was involved in that. It was to grow with subsidies and things like that, the middle class. After World War two and on, it just got even greater. And and, you know, if we don't have that type of of influx like, now, I think, I I don't know know the exact number, but $38,000,000,000 was given to Elon Musk to incorporate welfare. And could you imagine if that $38,000,000,000 went towards the middle class or went towards its citizens here to grow the middle class or to grow some form of wealth to make us better and Sure.
PJ:Going like that he's the richest man in the world. You think he could fund his own shit?
DC:I would also No. I yeah. I agree. And and that kind I I I hate that kind of behavior and that kind of mentality and the the programs that function in that way. To get back to your original question of if I had an example of where I felt like military was one of the worst offenders.
DC:Military? Government. Government. Yeah. The example is military.
DC:Okay. So to me, I mean, I I am a supporter of the military. What I am not a supporter of is how the government runs the military.
RC:I'd have to agree.
DC:I do not think we need to be involved in every single little conflict in every little country that happens around the entire world. In my opinion, and this is an opinion, the government should be there or the military should be there funded by the government, which is a socialist program. I would totally agree with that.
PJ:Democratic To do one thing,
DC:and that is defend us from enemies, foreign and domestic. Sure. Outside of that, what the hell are we doing? So it's grown into what a lot of people like to call now the military industrial complex.
PJ:It's been that way for a long time. Problem.
DC:To me, that is a problem. There's no there's no point other than there again are certain people making a shit ton of money while the rest of us sit here and fund it.
PJ:Yeah. So you got to get rid of the lobbyists. You got to get rid of all that stuff because that also helps in aids and the reasons why we do the things that we do. I I don't And then other countries like I shouldn't say this. I'm not gonna say it.
PJ:But there's other countries who who who convince us to do things that's not in our best interest and their best interest.
DC:You're right. You shouldn't say that.
PJ:And
RC:and I think We all know what you're talking about. I think that
PJ:I think that's a part of the problem. I agree with you that we get involved in a lot of stuff that we shouldn't and a lot of that stuff is politically based. It's not based on anything but politics. Right. And and we're being convinced by foreign countries that are looking for their betterment, not ours.
DC:There's there's there's there's multiples of them. It's not just the one. I mean, it's you know what I mean?
PJ:Well, there's one that I that I would tell you it's a necessity, and there's one that that I feel like it's not.
DC:Interesting. I'm curious to know what the necessity is.
PJ:The Ukrainian war, that's a necessity.
DC:Yeah. I would disagree with that. I would disagree with that.
PJ:To invade another country that is not a part of it's not a part of NATO? Not a part of NATO. Yeah. But it's a free country.
RC:Mhmm.
PJ:And I'm not saying we shouldn't be we should be the police of the world.
RC:But we should you're saying that we should defend a country that also believes in freedom
PJ:We should defend against one that doesn't? Freedom. Yes. Because that can affect us in the long run. So defending a company like a country A company.
PJ:Yeah. A country
DC:like Ukraine. We're just dudes talking about stuff.
PJ:Defending a country like Ukraine, I think benefits us in the long run. Defending a company a country like Taiwan, I think benefits us in the long run.
DC:I would agree with Taiwan more so than Ukraine. I have reasons for that, but go ahead.
PJ:I I just think that we're we're we are the beacon. I'm not saying we're the police, but we're the beacon of freedom. We're we are supposed to be the beacon of freedom I agree with that. For the world.
RC:Yep.
PJ:Because we are the greatest nation. So I think when it comes to defending freedom, we need to have a say, we need to show our might when it's necessary. And I think that it's it was necessary for the Ukrainian war and I think that had we approached it differently, I don't think the invasion would have happened. We could have negotiated it. And I know there was that that bay that Putin Putin wanted Mhmm.
PJ:To defend himself. That should have been negotiated. You know what? You don't invade, we'll get Ukrainian to give you that bay. We understand why you want it and offer a defensive standing and we get it.
PJ:We can discuss this, But if you invade, that's a different story. Yeah. Let's let's go to the table and talk about it because I understand that. You know? I get I get where they're going from.
PJ:Here's another example. Greenland. Had we just talked to those people in Greenland, we had bases there for years. Yeah.
RC:I was there. I've I've I've toured at one. Yeah. We Entertaining truth to it back
PJ:in the night. Said to them, hey, we feel like The United States needs to add a few more bases here for our and Greenland would have been like, yes, you've got to follow these guidelines, but absolutely. We wouldn't have any problems. But politically speaking, we had to be a butthole about it and say we're going to take you over. What do you got, sleigh dogs?
PJ:What are going to it's the most ridiculous thing in the world. We already have an air force or a military base there right now. Think there are two or three, right?
DC:I'd have to look
PJ:at it.
RC:Don't know.
DC:Not sure. Think there's a couple of The one
PJ:that I
RC:had been to was Tule Air Force Base.
PJ:Sure. So what I'm saying is we already have a presence there. All we had to do is talk to them people and say, hey, we want to put some more bases to protect our nation. And they and I know they're gonna be like, okay, you just can't put it in these areas, and you have to follow these guidelines for environmental issues. Go ahead.
PJ:We we used to have a shit ton more air force or more military bases there, and we closed them down. So we've been there before. Yeah. We've had several and Greenland was okay with it. It's the approach.
DC:Yeah. The approach is It's ridiculous. I can't argue with the fact that the approach is terrible. I cannot do that. I wouldn't do that.
PJ:It's so ridiculous. And and so and that's a situation where I think, yes, I get that we need that as a safe haven Sure. To to protect us. Yeah. We just went about it in the most ridiculous way ever.
PJ:You
RC:know? It's the way it seems like
PJ:But I get what you're saying about how the military is used.
RC:Yeah. But see, you know, another thing that is because, you know, back in the nineties, I did a lot of traveling overseas.
PJ:I was gonna say drugs.
RC:Actually, no. Surprisingly not. I mean No. Even though the fact that I was in that that I was I I played in a band for years is like, never really got into the drugs. But anyway, one of the thing, you know, just talking to the guys on the bases there after shows and things like that, know, you'll you'll learn a lot.
RC:It's like, it runs a lot like a corporation and the fact that they'll spend or the or or say they spent $10,000 on a hammer just to use up their budget so it doesn't get cut the next year.
DC:Yeah. That's a very government thing. It's a very corporate same thing.
RC:It's a very corporate thing too. Damn budgets. Do They do.
DC:They do.
RC:I've been in I've worked for plenty of corporations as well.
DC:But the difference is
PJ:government does it way more. I think the government's more of a you're right when you say the government, how they fund things is is is out of control. You're right. Like, I get what you're saying with the corporations, but I think the government is is so bad at that.
RC:Well, I mean the whole world is bad
PJ:at They'll scrap a whole bunch of printer. I think what was it, there was a, I don't know if it's true or not, but the myth a long time ago was the government threw away a whole bunch of printers and got new printers rather than changing the the toner. Yeah.
RC:Just to
PJ:just to keep their budget to where it was. Yeah.
RC:Mhmm. And if and
PJ:if that's the case, in my opinion, that's theft. Mhmm. That's theft of our money.
DC:I do. There's there's
PJ:Well, and it's I
DC:100% agree with that.
PJ:Well, so
RC:Isn't isn't when, you know, politicians use private jets, isn't that kind of similar?
PJ:Absolutely. That's theft. And all of that stuff needs to be reined in.
RC:You gotta get Isn't that theft? Yes.
PJ:No. Taxation is not theft. You always said yes. Taxation is not theft. But I believe in a I I honestly believe in a flat tax.
PJ:I don't think you should tax rich people an ungodly amount more. I think that there should be a flat tax, no more write offs. Everybody if you're an American citizen, you benefit from what America provides, you get a tax the same way. If you make a 100,000,000, you make a 100,000. It's the same percentage And and I'm tired of hearing these rich people go, yeah, but I'm I'm spending my taxes are so much more.
PJ:No, dick face. It's the same percentage if we had a flat tax.
DC:Yeah. If we were doing it the right way Yeah. And we got rid of all the loopholes. We could have some really good conversation about that because I think we'd have a lot of common ground there. I really do.
PJ:Let's let's see that for another another another time. Absolutely.
DC:But, you know, I just just kind of closing the loop on that, you were saying that corporations do the same thing with budgeting. You're right. But the difference when a corporation does budgeting so say this department over here had a $500,000 budget for their department for a fiscal year. The next year, of course, they're gonna try to push for another $500,000, maybe even push it a little bit more. But guess what's gonna happen?
DC:The difference between the corporation and the government is the c suite people are gonna look at that and go, sorry, man. We can't do that. You're gonna have to make it work with 400,000 or whatever the case may be, and then they do it. The difference with the government is, oh, okay. I guess we gotta give that to you again.
DC:Oh, you need more? Okay. Well, here's a little more.
RC:Right.
DC:When does it stop? The the checks and balances aren't there. There's there's there's not enough follow-up, and I'm not advocating for more government jobs. I'm what I'm saying is that we need to do we need to be able to do more with less because that's what corporations and more so small and medium businesses are asked to do continually is do more with less, and they find a way to do it because it's the American will. It's it's just that's how it works.
PJ:Corruption is the problem there. Corruption is you have the pail with a thousand holes and everybody's hands underneath it taking their piece out. So when that gets to the end of the line, you know, the bucket's almost empty and you go, oh, okay, but everyone else is getting rich, is why some of those politicians with a $170,000 salary are millionaires by the time they get out. Yeah.
RC:So just just to try to circle back because we have kind of gone off into the weeds a little bit.
PJ:A little bit.
DC:But it's it's we've been beating around the socialist Yeah.
PJ:Most of the time.
RC:But but to bring it back though, I I guess my, you know, what I what I'd like to see is thoughts on because I mean, you've got two DC's got two kids, I've got two kids. And PJ, I know that you want it. You always wanted kids. Yes. Have a stepdaughter.
PJ:I have a wonderful stepdaughter. I love her to death. She's she she is my child.
RC:That's awesome. There you go. What can we do to where they are not so dis because I mean, we we can talk to we're blue in the face about, you know, but we're also I know I I look at myself as having, you know, more days behind me than than ahead of me. Sure. But I worry about my kids.
RC:Oh, yeah. And what are you you know, what is the world going to look like for the for them?
PJ:It's not going to look like anything we've we have right now and it might be rough for them, but they're the ones who are going to solve all of our all the problems because they have to.
RC:Yeah. We kind of forced them into that. But I
DC:I will give you some hope.
RC:So so so but here so here's the thing. So what can we do? Because so as DZ of was going to
PJ:give us some hope. I wanted to hear the hope. He can finish. I'll I'll I'll get you the hope.
RC:Okay. Well, so
PJ:I like
RC:it. I like it. Because these polls of young kids, you know, to where it's like 39% of young adults view socialism positively? Again, I think
PJ:there is a misconception on socialism. I I think that they're thinking of democratic socialist programs, they're not thinking of socialism as socialism and this is this is the the scare tactic that both sides use, you know. It's they're they're taking a term and they're they're stretching it to cover a wide thing. Like, perfect example is woke. Do you guys know what woke where woke came from?
DC:I have an idea of where woke came from.
PJ:What do you think where do you think it came from?
DC:So the way that it was it seemed to evolve from my perspective was that the conservative or more so in circles of almost borderline conspiracy theorists started using the term a lot that people need to wake up. You need to wake up and see what's going on around you. You gotta wake up. You gotta wake up. And then the left or the more left leaning side of the aisle kind of co opt that co opted that and tried to make the term sound a little cooler.
DC:So instead of saying you gotta wake up or be awake, you gotta woke or woke. Right? I'm already woke. And so they were using that they were using that as a term of endearment, at least it seemed to me. And then the other side then co opted it again and said, well, that we're gonna make that a derogatory statement and say that, oh, if you're woke, you're you don't know what the hell is going on, you're stupid.
DC:That's my perspective. Is it right? Not saying it is, I'm just saying that's my perspective.
PJ:It was originally from when from sundown towns. Do you know what sundown sundown towns are?
DC:I do not.
PJ:That's a town where black people, when the sun goes down, you shouldn't be out.
DC:Okay.
PJ:And so if you were I'm
DC:familiar with
PJ:that concept. If were a brother and a black person and another black man, you said, hey, such and such and such, stay woke. That means keep your head on a swivel. Oh, gotcha. This area is not safe
DC:Gotcha.
PJ:For you and me. Be careful. That's where that came from.
DC:Okay.
PJ:And it was taken and bastardized into this thing that we have now. Just like, in my opinion, socialism, they'll take socialism and say that means democratic socialism. It's not. It's a completely different animal altogether. That's like saying socialism is communism.
PJ:It's not. They're completely different, you know. It's communism is an extreme socialist thing Mhmm. But it's not socialism.
RC:Well, mean, I think a lot of people on the right though would say that any form of socialism is a slippery slope.
PJ:Yeah. They'll look in the face and say that the we have the greatest military in the world.
DC:Well, it's true.
PJ:It's true. You're not being intellectually honest. Because we have the greatest military in the world and it's a democratic socialist program.
RC:There you go.
PJ:And and I bet you they drove their cars on a road from a democratic socialist program called MoDOT, iDOT, or wherever the hell you live from.
DC:Yeah. I never dot.
PJ:Someone in their family went to a fucking public edgy a public school that was funded by a democratic social program. And if their house burned down and the firemen came to put it out, the firemen when they left wouldn't leave a bill. And when they called the police because someone broke in their house, the police would say, hey, you have an account with us and you haven't paid your bill, so we're not going to come to your house and check on it. Those are these are all things that are democratic socialist programs that work for us.
DC:Sure.
PJ:And people will look in face and say it doesn't work. And there's tons of examples that shows that it does. If we, as a country, does what's best for our citizens, we can make anything we want work.
DC:Okay. So there when you say there's tons of examples, you're talking about or referencing the things you just mentioned, right? The military, the the Infrastructure programs. Those types of things. I guess where the things get a little muddier is when you start talking about because again, the right will say this a lot.
DC:Well, name me a place, country where it has worked in history. And I would actually have to agree with them that they really can't point to one. So I think what has not really been tested to a point where it has worked is when you let socialism run everything.
PJ:I'm not and I'm not saying socialism should run everything.
DC:Okay. Okay.
PJ:I'm saying what we need is more democratic socialist programs, not a democratic socialist run But
DC:feel like most of the people who are arguing for socialism in the form that we're seeing it right now Mhmm. Are advocating for that, or are they advocating more for what you're talking about?
PJ:I I my honest opinion is I don't think they know what they're arguing for because the term has
DC:been That I such think we agree on.
PJ:The term has been so bastardized and stretched and conformed out of this present. This is why I'm saying, you know, so there's a lot of people who think if you're a conservative, if you're a Republican, you're racist. It's the same thing.
RC:It's like,
PJ:it's the scare tactic has been used so much to divide us that we can't see the fucking forest from the trees. Yeah. And it's like, okay, let's just take a step back and think about this thing critically and and let's just be honest and come up with the best compromise. Because, again, as I say, most of these people who are looking and say socialism doesn't work, they're thinking, I'm thinking of the socialism that's just a straight socialist fucking and that's not what I'm saying.
DC:Right.
PJ:I'm saying The United States needs a few more democratic socialist programs to for the betterment of its citizens. I'm not saying but but I think we should we need to get rid of crony capitalism, You know? The fact that when the banks failed and we bailed the banks out, that's the end of capitalism. Yeah. If we became a crony capitalist country, in my opinion, what should have happened was the banks should have fucking left.
RC:Let fail. Let Nothing in my opinion is too big to fail. I agree.
PJ:I think that that money should have been sent to the citizens of this country because that's our money.
DC:It is should our have been money.
PJ:Sent to us so that we don't fail. Sure. Not the corporations. Damn the corporations.
DC:Damn the banks. The American will and the American people will rise up and fill that gap. Yes. They'll fill that void.
PJ:Yes. Yes. Yes. They'll New banks, there'll be new like the the the fall, new banks will come up funded by people and and and it'll take the place of those who who have failed.
DC:I don't think we could have come up with a better way to illustrate what this podcast was supposed to be about than the last little bit of this conversation. Because here's what we're what we're recognizing right now just in this conversation is that the algorithm is what's gonna push you to the extreme on one side or the other. To your point earlier, RC, that's what the algorithm does. Right? It just keeps feeding you more of what you've been looking at.
DC:And what happens to that stuff you've been looking at? It gets a little more extreme. It gets a little more extreme. It gets a little more extreme. And now all of a sudden, you've got this division.
DC:And then you end up with people who are arguing for a point that they maybe don't even really understand. What do you have to do? You've got it. This is what we've lost. What us three are sitting here doing today is what we've lost.
DC:People sitting around having these conversations, talking about them in a real way to where you can really get to the bottom of what somebody's thinking and what their beliefs really are as opposed to just what you're hearing coming from your TikTok, coming from your x feed, coming from your YouTube algorithm.
PJ:Yeah.
DC:Agreed? Agreed. Absolutely.
PJ:Yeah. I mean, lumping lumping someone into the extreme category because they have a a view is the most ridiculous thing I think I've ever
RC:We and I'll be honest, one of the one of my main motivations for wanting to start this podcast was I had an interaction on social media with somebody that I thought we were I mean, we weren't close friends, but we were buddies, you know? He's, you know, a fellow musician Yeah. That I've known, you know, you know, roughly for for years. And I'm being hated on, you know, because because the I feel like the extreme left right now, they equate their views with emotion. It it was strictly emotion and just like and if you don't believe the same things that I believe, that doesn't just mean that we have differing beliefs.
RC:That means that you are a bad person because you don't believe these things because these other things are evil. Yeah. They're not just a different point of view, they are evil.
DC:Right.
RC:And it's like, where is this coming?
DC:How did we get here?
RC:Did we get here? Because for years, I've known people on all different sides of the aisle, and I I don't who cares? You know
DC:what I mean? It used to not matter.
RC:It does. It it I mean, it did, but
DC:it mattered much less than it does now. Everyone is well, again, we we can only go off of what we see that's in front of us. And what do we have in front of us all the time? This stupid little black rectangle that tells us what we're supposed to think, that tells what we're supposed to buy, tells us what we're supposed to eat, tells us what we're supposed to wear.
RC:And I fell victim to it.
DC:Yeah. Oh, we all have.
RC:I fell I fell victim to because, you know, I'm old, so I I use Facebook. But you you are old. I know. I'm telling you. But, no, I fell into a trap where it kept showing me advertisements of things.
RC:I was buy I ended up buying shit that I've haven't even touched. Yeah. You know what I mean? And and but I I I I was able to snap myself out of it. I'm like, holy shit.
RC:This is this is not good. Yeah. You know, thankfully, I had the wherewithal to step and snap myself out of it. But I also know that, you know, granted I know we're mostly focused on America here, but you know, then unfortunately, there are a lot of countries where Facebook is their only way of getting to the Internet.
PJ:Look, I don't know what you guys talking about. This little black box is a wonderful thing. My ex wife threw away my porn collection and I could find all kinds of stuff for free on this thing. Oh, wait. That's a different story.
PJ:Sorry, guys. My bad. My bad. My bad.
DC:Well, it it's it's like anything else in the world. I I I blame the phones, but the phone is really not the issue. It's the it's the it's the algorithm behind the phone. It's the people controlling what's what the phone is doing. What?
DC:This is a powerful tool.
PJ:No. I think it's because I I I agree, but I think it's because we allow it to to manipulate us and we stop critically thinking Yes. Things through.
DC:Right.
PJ:It's we've lost our thought process.
RC:You know? And you do
DC:you feel like there was there's a concerted effort to to not only condone but promote that? I mean, I feel I feel like that's what's being pushed. I feel like that's control that they need that control because that's how that's how the the cabbage keeps rolling in, man.
PJ:I don't think it started with the phones. I think it's Oh, no. I think it started in the eighties where because if you recall, you used to be able to talk about politics. Politics was something that everybody used to talk about. Sure.
PJ:And all of a sudden, it like, cool. You don't talk You don't talk about you shouldn't talk about politics. You should talk about Yeah, defer to so now no one talks about politics. And so what happens is I only surround myself with people who agree with me. I'm never hearing the other side of it.
PJ:So I am in this echo chamber and I'm being justified every time I talk to someone, all of a sudden I'm a righteous person, so I am right with whom I can I am right? And every time you get
DC:that that This reinforces that.
PJ:Yeah. Then the yeah. You know, I I I think we just lost our humanity. I think we've lost our our our identity as Americans, with this Don King version of politics that we're in and we don't what we don't realize is this is a melting pot. It always has been.
PJ:Yes. And you're gonna have different views. You're going to have different countries, different ethnic backgrounds, different religions. As long as those don't impede on your beliefs and the things that you do to live your life happily, it only makes us greater. It makes us more knowledgeable.
PJ:It makes us more flexible and and more understanding of of
RC:I I agree. And again, I feel that's gonna be another topic for another day.
DC:Yes. Melting pot?
RC:I I think that needs
DC:to be a topic
PJ:on its own. I just want
RC:we were for the longest time a melting pot. But I don't feel like I don't feel like with the way that immigration has been going lately, we are. Well, don't don't believe I don't believe that a lot of the people that that come here, especially one of ones that come here with without going through the process. Sure. I don't think that they are assimilating.
PJ:Oh, immigration is something let let's say that because there's so much to talk about on there. Well, yeah. That's that's what I'm saying. It needs to have its own Yeah. There's so much to talk about there because Yeah.
PJ:I agree with you. I'm not for open borders.
RC:I don't think most people are.
PJ:I know. Nobody is. The the belief but but some people on the right believe that, you know, we're the the Liberals are want an open borders. No one wants an open border.
RC:Well, no. No. People know
DC:We'll have a discussion about who wants because somebody does.
PJ:Because I
RC:was gonna say elected officials Sure. I don't know that I can necessarily agree with that.
PJ:Okay.
RC:I think that's think that some elected officials do want Yes.
DC:They do. Borders.
RC:But again, that's gonna be a discussion for another We
DC:could we could easily okay. Look. This is gonna happen a lot on this podcast. We are gonna get in the weeds because, again, we're we're three guys who who we know at the end of the day, when this is over and we're done, we're gonna go hang out somewhere.
RC:Right. And we did this And and again, we're the point of this podcast is to not to not to change minds. No. No. It's not to win.
RC:Nobody's trying to win. What? I did. What? Nobody's gonna win an argument, DJ.
RC:No one is going to win. No. I'm saying, no. But I I just I I just want people to tune in and be like, yeah. I mean, I I can't I see some I
DC:agree with some of what everybody's saying
PJ:Thank you.
RC:Yeah. Because the look, there there are three sides to every story. There's ones there's there's the one side, there's the other side And
DC:there's the truth.
RC:Yeah. You You know what I mean?
PJ:That's the Illuminati's version of it. Yeah. That's the truth. Well
RC:That's gonna be another I don't know. Wanna talk I stuck my
PJ:foot as I have no idea what I'm talking about.
RC:You wanna well, that's gonna be another episode probably in
PJ:the episode. Aliens at least once? Yes. Yes.
DC:Oh, Yes. Oh, can we?
RC:No. Nucky. So
DC:I think what we can say about, you know, is is what have I learned about socialism?
RC:Oh, that's a good way to handle it.
PJ:Yeah. What
DC:have What we I learned from this conversation is that I did fall victim a little bit to the extremism when it comes to how I view socialism. In listening to PJ, I understand a little bit more now about his point of view as far as what a social democratic socialist program can do for society. And I mean, I understood that they were always out there, and I've never been one to argue that they shouldn't exist at all. But it makes a little bit more sense to me as far as being able to better allocate those types of things. And where we found some common ground was we know that or we agree that those who were in charge of it are probably the issue.
DC:Right? Yep. So so it's not that it's not that we can't do socialism at all. It's not that we need to do all socialism. We just need to find that balance.
PJ:Mhmm. Right?
DC:Where it's gonna work for everybody. That's what I've got out of the conversation today. And and, you know, that may be different for somebody else. You guys have any other comments as far as what maybe you
PJ:came into this with a little bit different point of view?
RC:You know, listening to PJ, it's like, I guess my mind just never really equated the two. I never really thought of the the the parts of government like the military and, you know, the the infrastructure, you know, as those being
DC:Socialist programs. Yeah.
RC:Yeah. Like democratic socialist programs which but it makes complete sense
DC:because they
PJ:It does.
RC:I mean, that that is what they are. So, know, eye opening there.
DC:You know, we didn't get into things like EBT and all that kind of stuff at all, like welfare and that kind
PJ:of stuff. We didn't talk about that at all. And that's okay. We should we should talk about those things. And
DC:there could be another again, another episode.
RC:Seems to be three hours long.
DC:So No. I agree. I agree. Because we could have a we could have a disc we could have a whole podcast about attention span. We can have gone to shit.
RC:Yes. We yeah. We could. What was I talking about?
PJ:See what did there. Dad joke.
RC:Anyway but no. Any any closing thoughts, PJ?
PJ:You know, I I can honestly say what I've learned is that three individuals, adults, males, can sit down and have a discussion on different political views and talk to each other respectfully with no anger, no preconceived notions, and just have a discussion. Yeah. And that is something that is lacking in America and and the fear of us losing our American ideal is that, is that that you can disagree with someone and still respect them, still love them, still like them, still want to be around them and just agree to disagree. Yeah. Yeah.
RC:I think I I agree. I think the main thing the main thing I feel like we've lost is is just that, that we we have lost the ability to and and I and I I think this a lot of this comes from social media because that's people arguing from a distance.
DC:Yeah.
RC:You're not really gonna be held accountable for a lot of the things that you say. You know what I mean? But with the problem with that is that we forget a lot of times that the other person that you're talking about is just another human being They're
DC:a person.
RC:They're a person. They're another human being with feelings. Yeah. And and we've we've forgotten to give people the benefit of the doubt that, you know, people are inherently good instead of being inherently bad.
PJ:100%.
RC:So Nah. I prefer yeah. I prefer to I prefer to think of people as inherently good. That's that's where I come from.
DC:I think I well, could be another topic.
RC:It could be.
DC:But you should probably cut out that I said that because that should be another topic. I I but it comes from a different worldview. Anyway, well, I think Cut what out?
RC:What I
DC:just said? Know what I said, which is nah. That all people are inherently good or not inherently good.
RC:Oh, I I just took it as a joke.
DC:No. Okay. No. I I truly believe that. I think Okay.
DC:We I think we're born into sin.
PJ:I think we're born into evil, and we have
DC:to make a conscious decision every day to rise above that and be better.
PJ:I think most people want it want to do good. I I I think when when you do something nice for someone, I think most people like have a feeling of I did something good.
DC:Yeah. Mhmm.
PJ:And they like that. I'm not saying people do it for the reward because a lot of people don't do it for the reward. They do it because they just want to do good. I but I agree with you that we do evil things.
RC:Like Oh yeah.
PJ:Man is just and then when I say man, I don't mean just men, I mean
DC:Humanity.
PJ:Humanity because of our circumstances, you know, we do we are capable of doing evil things. Yes.
RC:Well, I I agree that in in that's another thing I feel like we've I feel like because we've lost our moral compass as a people that we have lost a lot of the ability to do the right thing when nobody's looking. But have
PJ:we lost our moral compass? Honestly, do you think we've lost our moral compass or do you think it's being misguided because of our political
RC:Well, think that I
PJ:think we're
DC:being shown.
RC:I I think I think To lose
DC:are we were being instructed
RC:to lose our moral compasses are being co opted.
PJ:Yes.
DC:Oh,
PJ:that's a good that's a good yeah.
DC:Yeah. Yeah. Well, and that goes to something else I was gonna say, and that is in this whole discussion, I think what people who are gonna listen to this podcast are gonna realize, and I hope they
RC:realize of them in for the 400 bots?
DC:Yes.
RC:Okay.
DC:Sorry. Is that is that if we really stop and look around us, there are a lot more of us out there
RC:I think I
DC:I agree. Of the people who are way over on the left or way over on the right or way somewhere who knows where. They're just the ones with the loudest voices.
RC:Yep. And the platforms.
DC:And the platforms.
PJ:Yep.
RC:So let's building I'd like this to be a platform Yes. For those of us for the rest of the nation.
DC:The rest of us. Yes. Yes. So if you like what you heard, if you like what you're hearing, please, whatever platform you're listening to this podcast on, do us a favor, give us a shout out, give us a like, leave a comment, let us know what you think, that'd be awesome.
PJ:Alright. Till next time guys. Till next time.
RC:Alright. This has been Outside the Algorithm with DC, PJ, and RC.
DC:Cool. God for the editing booth.
PJ:I can't it. It's like we got fat over. This is it.
DC:What was it? What was it? Mushmouth. Mushmouth. That's right.
RC:This isn't getting cut. We'll talk to you next time. See you, everybody.