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Veterans know how to lead. The lessons we learned in the military form the foundation for bigger successes in business, entrepreneurship and community.
Host John S Berry, CEO of Berry Law, served as an active-duty Infantry Officer in the U.S. Army, finishing his military career with two deployments and retiring as a Battalion Commander in the National Guard. Today, his veteran led team at Berry Law, helps their clients fight some of the most important battles of their lives. Leading successful teams in the courtroom, the boardroom, and beyond, veteran leadership drives the firm’s rapid growth and business excellence.
Whether building teams, synchronizing operations, or refining tactics, we share our experiences, good and bad, to help you survive, thrive and dominate.
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[00:00:02.680] - Joseph Kopser
Almost every other boss I had in the Army was an absolute knucklehead, and the common traits, the common traits among those leaders is what I've always tried to avoid, which is just being an ass for no other reason. To take that rank on your collar and just throw it around like that gave you some ability to be a jerk.
[00:00:21.160] - John S. Berry
They think they're all that and a bag of chips, and they're a soup sandwich, right?
[00:00:24.150] - Joseph Kopser
And everybody but them knows it.
[00:00:26.850] - John S. Berry
Welcome to Veteran Led. I'm your host, John Berry. Today's guest is Joseph Kopser. He's a U.S. Army Veteran, entrepreneur, author, and advisor for Cleantechs and Capital Factory. Now, you are the epitome of the Veteran who does 20 years of service. You got a Combat Action Badge, Ranger tab, West Point grad. You get out and then boom, you start a company, Ride Scout, and you sell it to Mercedes-Benz. So, tell us about that journey.
[00:00:57.700] - Joseph Kopser
Yeah, so what I want all your listeners to know is that I didn't set out to be a businessman. I didn't set out to even sell my company. What I was trying to do in those early days, in fact, while I was still in the Army, was fix my own problem. And my problem was my commute. I was at the Pentagon at the time, commute was terrible. Then I moved here to Austin, Texas, running Texas Army ROTC. Commute here was terrible. And I said, there's got to be a better way. So nights and weekends, like any I now know the term is called entrepreneur, but at the time I just was trying to solve a problem. And before I knew it, uh, I realized that there were some gaps in the transportation market. I realized there were some new tools like, you know, mobile phones. You're, you know, your viewers got to remember this is 15 years ago when mobile phones are really catching on and GPS. And so, I just did what the military taught us to do, which is see a problem, build a team, try to fix it. And for me, it was very personal.
[00:01:48.970] - Joseph Kopser
I had just come back from Iraq a second time, away from my daughters once again, and what I want to do is spend more time with my daughters at breakfast and not on the road in traffic. And so that journey, that drip, you know, that drive led us towards Ride Scout. We built a team, and to your point, right time, right technology. Uber and Lyft were getting huge. All the big car companies were saying, we gotta have technology, and they found us. They found Ride Scout, and we sold our company to them. And it was a great success story for a lot of Veterans that were involved in that project.
[00:02:19.730] - John S. Berry
And of course, the name Ride Scout— you were an armor officer, so I take it that's where that comes from.
[00:02:24.940] - Joseph Kopser
Yeah, I got to give all credit, though, to the teammates we hired from the University of Texas. They promised me that as we were brainstorming better names than the original name I had for it, that Ride Scout had nothing to do with my cavalry world, my 1st Cavalry and 3rd Cavalry experience. But I didn't care. I took it, I loved it, and I owned it.
[00:02:43.510] - John S. Berry
And now one of your companies is called Grayline after, I believe it was General Douglas MacArthur's famous quote about the long Grayline at West Point.
[00:02:53.290] - Joseph Kopser
That's right. So, for me, duty, honor, country means a lot more than just a bumper sticker. It's what's, you know, what drove me my 20 years in the Army. And then frankly, in business, as I continue not only to be able to help companies, but more importantly, to pull back, to look back and find those military Veterans who are beginning their journey, or at any age and stage in life that they're in, to help them get to the next level. And Grayline Group had been started up by my business partner Brett Boyd, who is a grad as well. I came on board after we wrote a book together called Catalyst. And I've been president now for 7, 8, 9, almost 10 years.
[00:03:29.890] - John S. Berry
And I don't know if you know this, but my chief marketing officer, also a Cav Scout, also West Point grad, has owned a marketing company called Catalyst. So not sure all these names come together.
[00:03:42.490] - Joseph Kopser
It's a sign, John. It's a sign I was meant to be here on your podcast today.
[00:03:45.960] - John S. Berry
It's a sign. So, let's talk a little bit about the struggles, right? When you came out, I mean, you go right into business, you're trying to solve problems and you get into the private sector and boom, what happens?
[00:04:00.020] - Joseph Kopser
Yeah, I mean, I think the biggest thing that happens is, and this we kind of have to back up in the Wayback Machine. In the military, whether you call them barracks lawyers, no offense, my friend, you know, the barracks lawyers in the Army who have actually never been out of the Army, they're giving you all this advice about what it's going to be like on the outside. And the reality of is most of us went into the military, went into college, or went into ROTC around 18 to 20 years of age before we were even really adulting ourselves. So now you leave the military, you don't know the civilian world, and it's the first time that you're an adult on your own, that you haven't been told what to wear and what to do with your schedule. And some vets thrive in that. I absolutely loved the freedom of getting to do what I do. But I also recognize a lot of our peers enjoyed that structure of the military. And so, for me, it was neat to be able to go into companies, meet customers, meet partner organizations, and very quickly pick up on, are they looking for more structure or are they looking for freedom and creativity?
[00:05:01.800] - Joseph Kopser
And then it was the, you know, the cavalry spirit in me, if you will, that blended that together. But there were trials and tribulations. Maybe if you had 3 or 4 hours, I could go over all the things I messed up. But I'm happy to dive into any particular area, just showcase and highlight for your viewers, most importantly, so that they know we all screw it up as we're going out the door. And frankly, I still mess things up even to this day.
[00:05:24.560] - John S. Berry
Yeah, that's the great thing about the military is that after every mission, training, or on a deployment, you did that after-action review. What was supposed to happen? What happened? You know, and then what went well? What do we need to start doing, stop doing, and going through the whole analysis of where were our shortcomings and our failures. And of course, it was, you know, zero attribution, zero retribution. A dime dropped is a dime well spent. Call people out because that's how we get better. And I think, I think that really helped me deal with failure after, after getting out. Because in law school, they tell us as lawyers, you know, like, everything— like, you can't screw this up. Like, someone's future is in your hands. Do not screw this up. And yet you may be a great lawyer and you may do everything right by your client, but you may— they don't teach us how to run law firms in law school. And so we learn operational lessons. We learn all these lessons. So even if you have a great product, a great idea, and you're executing well, there's so much more that you need to know.
[00:06:23.570] - Joseph Kopser
Yeah.
[00:06:24.050] - Joseph Kopser
You know, in the military, you nailed it. We call it the after-action review. In the civilian world, with all the companies and teams I've been a part of, whenever we were looking at our opportunity to improve, I always referred to it as our sunshine and rainbows moment. And what I mean by that is if we mess something up, we get everybody together and I say, okay, let's forego the 20, 30 minutes where I tell everybody sunshine and rainbows and you're all wonderful. Okay, just know that's a given. Now, knowing that that's a given, what are we going to fix? How can we do better on this? And that was really the fun part of— for the most part, a lot of our civilian peers didn't ever grow up with the AAR, uh, and so they're not used to this idea of, you know, we mess it up and now we're going to talk about it, we're going to go into great detail, we're going to hold people accountable. And there's a lot of people in the private sector that just don't work in companies that do that. And so, I celebrate any company that does that kind of work.
[00:07:16.440] - John S. Berry
Yeah, I think anytime you're in a company where people start talking about throwing people under the bus, the accountability isn't clear. It needs to be clear and it needs to be in writing who is responsible for what, at what phase of any operation. And it's not so that you can point the finger, but it's so that you can have accountability throughout the organization. And people say, oh, You threw me under the bus. Well, no. I mean, that may be true if you are not good at setting accountability, right? But realistically, no one is ever thrown under the bus when you have clear accountability. And I think of all the staff meetings, and I'm sure you've been there as an officer where, hey, all of a sudden you're in a staff meeting and someone's talking about something you have no idea about. They're like, dude, I sent you the email. And then you're like, look, oh yeah, that was like 2 minutes before the meeting started, right? So that was a way people were thrown under the bus. But I found generally, if you have strong accountability and a great culture, people don't feel like they're thrown under the bus.
[00:08:13.550] - John S. Berry
They will own it before you have to say, hey, let's talk about what happened and where we failed and who owns what and how we're going to fix it. But I do think it's important, coming from military culture, to be able to say, I own this. Or what's worse is when I first started, I'm sure you were like this, I thought I owned everything. Extreme ownership can be a really bad thing because extreme anything is bad. But it's like, I own it. This has happened. I own it.
[00:08:36.890] - John S. Berry
I own it.
[00:08:38.690] - John S. Berry
I'm like, then I realized, like, if I own everything, then why do I have all these team members?
[00:08:43.010] - Joseph Kopser
Right?
[00:08:43.510] - John S. Berry
So, tell me about that journey where you are now building an organization and in the civilian world, and you're dealing with that to figure out who owns what. That maybe that accountability of, you know, you find out pretty soon you're accountable for hiring the right people and making sure they maintain the standards, but you're really not accountable for their wins and losses and failures.
[00:09:06.740] - Joseph Kopser
Yeah, you know, so to build on that idea, and you're really on to something, which is it's about the hiring, uh, and why I think that that's so important is if you can hire people that are either a good fit from the beginning for your culture, or you think that they are coachable and willing to learn, that they can be brought into your culture, well then you're on to something. And when you are trying to hire the right people and then hold people accountable and say, okay, you're going to be in charge of marketing, you'll be in charge of branding, you're in charge of events, and then if something goes wrong, bring them in. You know, you praise in public and you teach, you know, in private, and you figure out how the event went wrong. And if it was a case that you as the leader didn't give the right guidance or the right resource, well then that's on you, to your point. But if indeed the guidance and the resource were there, were there not the milestones and the check-ins? And if they were there, then ultimately it does fall on that person who you hold accountable.
[00:10:00.060] - Joseph Kopser
You say, okay, this is what we messed up. This is what we're going to do better in the future. Now it's back on you. Now let's do better. And if they mess up twice, uh, you really got to be looking. And then third time, I'm a big fan of fire fast. And the reason why fire fast is important is unlike the military where you're given a teammate and that's your squad mate, and there's very few things you're going to do before the first sergeant, sergeant major is going to remove them from your team. But in the military, it's because, you know, it's a small organization. In the private sector where there's lateral entry in and out, we can replace you with someone similar in age or experience. Fire fast if you need to, because you're going to take more time dragging the organization down and not focusing on the real mission.
[00:10:43.610] - John S. Berry
And I think there's these wonderful leadership lessons that we learn in the military and then some really bad ones. And I remember as a young lieutenant, I went from being a line infantry platoon leader to believing I was going to be an XO or the scout platoon leader. And then my company commander became the HHC company commander, and he said— and I had a good relationship with him, and he thought I was a high performer. I don't know if I was, but he said, hey, no, no, no, you're not going there. I need a really good support platoon leader. And I was like, oh no. And so, what would happen is they would take for the ammo section, other sections, they would pull them out of the infantry companies and say, okay, now you're doing ammo. And these people weren't— that was not their MOS. They would come in, and once again, these Sergeant Major needed volunteers. So, who would they give? Usually their low performers. And I had this whole issue with the Sergeant Major and he said, "Lieutenant, I don't think you understand. They scored high enough on the ASVAB to be there.
[00:11:35.730] - John S. Berry
They are mentally and physically fit. If they are not performing, it is a leadership problem and it is your fault." And I believed that for a long time.
[00:11:43.360] - Joseph Kopser
Yeah. Yeah.
[00:11:44.490] - Joseph Kopser
No, you really do have to have the skill sets. You really do have to have that match. And if you can bring those both together, then that's a wonderful place to be. But if you can't get it, eventually you do have to remove them as quick as you can. And sometimes, you know, Sergeant Majors got that right, and sometimes their hands were tied and they couldn't get that right.
[00:12:01.890] - John S. Berry
As one company commander told me when I was Lieutenant, he's like, I did not have a high-performing— I had some amazing platoon sergeants, but I got one that was not a high performer. And he just said, you know, that's your cross to bear. And then I tried to give him a referred NCOER, and then I got, you know, lit up by the S1. About why I couldn't do that. And like, you know, so there are a lot of things where we were constrained. And when you get out in the civilian world, those constraints aren't there. There are laws, there are regulations, but there are constraints that we self-impose, self-inflict.
[00:12:31.390] - Joseph Kopser
And that's the cool part about the private sector that many of your viewers have probably already experienced is it really does come down to your competence. You as the individual, can you perform? Are you able to deliver on what you're trying to do? And if you can, Well, then good on you. You're going to take off and do big, big things. And I always tell people leaving the military, take— even if it's a junior job, take a job in the organization you want to be a part of and don't hold out for that dream job that you think is there, that the Barracks Lawyer told you is there, because the sooner you can get into an organization, demonstrate your competency, they're going to be promoting you.
[00:13:07.040] - John S. Berry
Yeah, that's great. Well, now I got an even better slogan for Berry Law. Not Barrick's lawyers, real lawyers. Right. So, but I do, you know, what I want to ask about all of your successes, and I know, like I said, we've all struggled at some point, but where have you had more struggles in building the talent or buying the talent? And what I mean by that is in training people up through the organization or in finding that superstar and holding them accountable, which is tougher?
[00:13:35.670] - Joseph Kopser
That's a great question. So, I would think that among all of them, the finding the talent that was coachable. And what I mean by that is, uh, when I did find the talent, boom, they were on and roughing, you know, off on, up and running and off to the races. But it was those times where we got somebody, we're like, oh my gosh, you were just not a fit. And we would try and we would coach, and then after a while we're like, boop, that was a bad hire. We got to make that, you know, make that better by bringing in somebody new. But then onboarding somebody new takes another 30 days, takes another 45 days. And that's really the frustrating part. So it's finding that right fit, knowing that if you don't get it right, you're going to be 45 to 60 days late having to do it again.
[00:14:21.100] - John S. Berry
The hard costs and the soft costs, I mean, are tremendous. You know, a mis-hire is a very expensive mistake. And if you think about if you're going to train them and build them, you say, okay, I'm going to bring them on, I'm going to onboard them, I'm going to train them, I'm going to certify them. And then we're going to run QC to make sure that they're doing it right. And that's a tremendous expense. But so is you pay a recruiter a ton of money, you bring in a senior executive, you give them a lot of authority, and then by the time they go, you're giving them a severance package. It didn't work out and you just lost 6 months to a year. And that can be measured in— well, it's tough to measure. But, you know, when you look at what could have been, It's a lot.
[00:15:04.580] - Joseph Kopser
So, it is exactly those opportunity costs, because for every day that someone is not in that job or that you're having to take somebody out of their job to train somebody for a new job, you're not getting the full efficiency. And at the same time, headhunters cost so much money. Sometimes it's 30% of the year's salary to fill that one position.
[00:15:26.490] - John S. Berry
Plus, plus projected bonus.
[00:15:28.670] - Joseph Kopser
Plus projected bonus. So that's why I'm such a fan of personal referrals. You know, this person vouches for them, they're going to go to the head of the line. Because with bots— oh my gosh, don't get me started about hiring bots and being able to make the perfect resume. Eventually all resumes will look exactly perfect, all information will be exactly even. The only thing that's going to make a difference in the future is John served with this guy, he vouches for Steven, Steven met Katie, and Katie is applying. Well, even if it's 2 degrees of freedom, That's better than none. One degree of freedom is even better. And if somebody actually worked for that person before and can vouch, phew, they're absolutely going to the front of that line. And that's why, for your viewers especially, gotta remember, your reputation will precede you in whatever job you're going to next. Your reputation will precede you. So just don't be a jerk. There's no reason to be a jerk. Mm-hmm.
[00:16:29.150] - John S. Berry
Yeah. And if it doesn't work out, you know, leave with dignity and class. I have seen people just blow up and then just burn, you know, burn relationships. It's like, you know, any decent organization is going to, before they hire that person, is going to reach out to someone on your team and ask. And so, I would just say, you know, it sometimes it doesn't work out, but when it doesn't work out, you know, leave with grace and class. And I remember hearing Sy Wakeman talk about a study where they said that people who left— they followed these people who left organizations because they had a bad boss. And what they found is over the 10-year period, they, they left an average between 4 or 5 jobs because of the boss. It was never them. And so, I think how you leave— I would say this, and I think, you know, you know Todd Conner, right?
[00:17:15.610] - Joseph Kopser
Oh yeah, very well.
[00:17:16.260] - John S. Berry
And I know Todd said something once. He said, you know, how you exit someone from an organization says more about your culture than how you onboard somebody, right? But I think the same is true for how you leave an organization. And look, there's good news stories, there's bad news stories. Nobody's there together forever. You know, it's like any relationship. Some breakups are amicable, some are messy. And I think, you know, it's one of those things where nobody's on the train forever. And so, and I think now, especially with a lot of— when you start bolting on AI capabilities, job descriptions are not as relevant anymore as job scope and the mission, and the mission evolves. So, someone who maybe had all these skills that you needed 6 months ago for this position, you realize that position is irrelevant now. It really isn't providing any value to the organization. So, we need, we need to change some of the, some of the scope and Sometimes people are very accepting of that. Other times it's a very difficult conversation. Be like, hey, these are the skills I need going forward. Can you do this?
[00:18:23.020] - Joseph Kopser
Yeah. So, you know, you bring up something that is cutting edge right now as we're taping this podcast and people are looking forward in the future with AI and all these tools moving so fast. I give forth as my opinion that AI is going to make information so easily able to be found, that AI is going to make documents we make so easy to create that at the end of the day, the only real value coming out is either A, over on the side of firms, disruptive firms, think accounting groups or lawyer firms or dry cleaners, those firms that use AI to accentuate and do better with their business, or as we say at Grayline Group, to apply that intelligence, not the artificial intelligence, but to imply— apply what you're learning. So that's on one end of the spectrum. But on the other end of that same spectrum is that if information becomes so easy to get and you could find anybody you want, the only people you're going to really want on your team are going to be people who are interesting or novel. I mean, do they have new things to— are they creative?
[00:19:28.450] - Joseph Kopser
Are they interesting? Do you just want to hang out with them? Because if you don't, why do you have them on your team when you have near-perfect information to be able to find someone else? So anyway, I'm glad you brought up AI and the impact this can have on jobs and to your point, job scopes.
[00:19:44.460] - John S. Berry
Yeah, and I think it goes back to being a military officer. You know, writing a good operations order takes some skill, but once you master that, the real difference in whether you have a high-performing officer or an average, above center mass or right center mass, is that ability to execute. Because we know that no plan survives first contact. And executing that plan takes real skill. And most importantly, one thing that AI does not have: judgment. And as a leader, you have to be able to execute and make judgment calls and get the mission done in a way that probably was not specifically outlined in that paragraph 3. Right, of your operations or that execution plan. And it's just people who can execute are so— like, people who can plan are great, but people who can execute and be creative and solve the problem and have the guts and the grit to get it done, I think that's really where the future is. It's not, you know, the smartest people. And I'm sure you've seen it. I've hired amazing people with Ivy League credentials, some really smart, but they just don't have the grit and the backbone.
[00:20:55.900] - John S. Berry
And once adversity hits them.
[00:20:58.760] - Joseph Kopser
Right.
[00:20:59.100] - John S. Berry
They fall apart.
[00:21:01.110] - Joseph Kopser
Yep.
[00:21:01.750] - John S. Berry
Yeah.
[00:21:02.030] - Joseph Kopser
So that's a great point. In fact, when you brought up the importance of the operations order, which a little bit of trivia there for folks, the AAR and the 5-paragraph operations order are considered two of the greatest contributions from the United States military into the business and leadership world. So it's a little freebie there for you. But on that op ord, and I couldn't agree with you more that execution matters. But before execution starts, it's that spot where you say commander's intent. And when you can lay out the commander's intent, so it's like, folks, when everything does fall down, when everything is breaking, when it's dark and it's foggy and we're all tired, the thing that matters is the commander's intent. Ultimately, to your point on execution, what are we trying to execute on and where are we trying to go? And so, when you combine those two together, commander's intent with your well-described point of execution, that's where successful organizations happen.
[00:22:02.000] - John S. Berry
Yeah, and it's so easy to get lost in the weeds, but keeping the main thing the main thing is a skill because once again, you can set that vision, that plan, but the team has to know that you have the resolve to follow through. Otherwise, it seems like whatever you state your intent is, if your actions are the opposite of that or they're leading the team to question it, you're in a world of hurt. And I've been there. So I know.
[00:22:28.750] - Joseph Kopser
Absolutely.
[00:22:30.000] - John S. Berry
So you have also gotten into politics. You've co-authored a book. You've done a lot of amazing stuff. So tell us about that. I mean, multiple companies. You're very— you're involved, still involved at the University of Texas with the Veterans. And very involved with Veterans, specifically in Austin and Texas. But tell us a little bit more about all of the things that you're involved in, because like this sets a, you know, it's for me, it's very aspirational to be able to say, I want to be, I want to be, I want to be like you. I want to be able to do all these things, do them well, have great relationships. Tell us about what you've done and tell us how you've managed to do all of it.
[00:23:05.830] - Joseph Kopser
Yeah. So it goes back to a phrase that I learned years ago and then kind of owned it for myself, which is, to put it in my own words, which is, people will be what they can see. People will be what they can see. And what that means to me is, I, for instance, am the product of coaches, teachers, and mentors through my 50-plus years. And what I saw in so many of them, from Mrs. Audrey Grievious, my 6th grade teacher, to so many of my baseball coaches, to my platoon sergeants and sergeant majors along the way, my first squadron commander, Bob Cone. What I saw in all of them was a spirit of, when you see a problem, go and fix it. Don't wait on others. When you see a problem, go and fix it. And what that meant was I was the kid in high school that decided to run for student council president because I thought student council could do more than just be a popularity contest. And I wasn't the popular kid, I was kind of the nerdy guy, but I had enough friends, because I would be in the nerd group, I'd be in the track group, I'd be in the cross-country group, I'd be in all these different little groups.
[00:24:12.940] - Joseph Kopser
And with enough of that coalition, we were able to win. And that taught me a lesson through life, which is when you see a problem you think you can fix, you have to build a coalition or a team to do it. So it was building teams in the military, it was building teams with Ride Scout, it was building teams with military and Veteran groups like the aforementioned Todd Connor and what he did with Bunker Labs 10+ years ago. And the key to all of those was to recognize what I could do well and where my gaps were. And so, for instance, when it came to things like politics, I mean, many of us complained about our politics, but I was in a unique position to be either courageous enough or crazy enough— I still don't know which one— to think I could do something about it. And so I ran for Congress in 2018 and and ultimately received more votes than any Democrat running for Congress in the history of the state of Texas in a midterm election. And I attribute that to the fact that I spoke about issues like jobs, education, our kids' future.
[00:25:13.090] - Joseph Kopser
I focused on the middle. Why? Because if you're going to build a big team, if you're going to build a big coalition, you go to where the people are— not the fringes, not the extremes. And that carried over into the book we wrote Catalyst, talk about leadership and strategy for the 21st century. We looked at how the world is changing and what you can do about it as a leader, but we looked through it through the lens of the business community and the policy and government community, because you can't make big changes in either without them working together. So if there's a theme to all these different sectors I've had fun in and some success is identify the problem. If I think I can fix it, build a coalition and a team, and then go at it. And, uh, just understand you're gonna make a lot of mistakes along the way, of which I have made many, uh, but just get yourself up, dust yourself off, and just keep going.
[00:26:00.860] - John S. Berry
So I want to ask you, go back to Ride Scout, because you built this amazing organization with a team of Veterans and others, and this is an exciting thing and now you have a buyer and now it's like you're leaving the military again, right? It's like you're walking away from the team, everything you've built. From your baby.
[00:26:24.620] - Joseph Kopser
Yeah.
[00:26:24.960] - John S. Berry
Your, your, your identity is wrapped up in that company. Right. And when we do that sometimes, sometimes a little too much. Yeah. But you, how did, how did you get to the point where you knew it was time?
[00:26:36.020] - Joseph Kopser
Well, there's two answers to that and they're both related. Number one, believe it or not, I luckily had bosses and mentors years before that taught me, look, you're a part of 1st Platoon right now, but you won't always be 1st Platoon. You're going to be the commander of Cougar Company, but you won't always be commander of Cougar Company. You might be the XO of 27 Cav now, but you'll go on. Each one of those opportunities taught me that it's really about the organization, less about the individual. So I was lucky enough that I could separate myself from that sense of identity. Now, where do I identify? Just like this quote over my shoulder, also a Douglas MacArthur quote that says, of all the titles I've ever had— soldier, you know, all the titles he's ever had— the number one title that he was most proud of was to be a dad. And for me, that's what it's all about. And second point to how it went was that we ended up selling Ride Scout is I knew that if I held on to our company and waited for a bigger buyer, could we have gotten one?
[00:27:39.570] - Joseph Kopser
Sure, but as a dad, and so many teammates who had kids, and all of us were from either a military or very modest background, that moment to sell a company, to take that financial windfall, would be a benefit to our kids in so many ways. So as a dad, I saw part of our opportunity. Now, on a humorous note, and Craig Cubbins will tell you this, my business partner, also military, that he realized we needed to sell the company when I was doing live demos with the app, you know, because it was Ride Scout was an app and we had it projected up on the screen and all these potential investors and potential acquisition. And my wife called not just once during a live demo, but twice. And when we got in the car, Craig was like, what was so important she had to call? Call her. Is there a kid? Did they lose a limb? Anyway, so I called her up. She said, Are you doing live demos again? Our data overage is $74 over again. We can't pay that bill. And that's when Craig realized, okay, yeah, yeah, we, we could probably start looking for a buyer cuz we could sell this company and do right by our investors and our teammates, which is exactly what happened.
[00:28:52.890] - John S. Berry
Outstanding. And so how did you move on from there? You built this, you have a successful exit. You're a little bit more comfortable. Where do you go from there?
[00:29:02.440] - Joseph Kopser
Yeah, I, I created another startup and that startup was Democracy. And that's the team that I built to run for Congress back in 2018. And we went from zero and nothing to $3 million raised to do that effort and to build marketing teams and comms teams. And all the operations of a business are the operations of a campaign. And by the time it was over, I mean, we had over 3,000 volunteers out in the field. And so to run that kind of an operation was just like running a company and just like running a unit in the United States military. And to see them all come together was just an absolute blast, uh, for me in real time. And so after that was over, that came— it was over, then I said, okay, wait, now I'm in a different season of my life. I've had a lot of opportunity to build teams, but what can I do now about helping others build their teams? And that's when Todd Conner and groups like Bunker Labs really put a spotlight on military Veterans trying to build their dreams. And so I've spent really the last 6, 7 years now with different organizations trying to help military Veterans do what they do, either companies like, uh, Low Coal, which is another Army-led company, Army veteran-led company doing great things and investing time and, and resources into that company.
[00:30:22.640] - Joseph Kopser
Or things like the work I did at the University of Texas to help military Veterans that were traveling through the education system. Or, uh, even more directly today, a new organization called Leading 2 Win— Leading2Win.org. And Leading 2 Win's goal is not to create another Veteran service organization, but we want to be the bridge that brings the existing organizations together. So once a year we have a big conference in Austin. We'll have our 4th this year on the 25th Memorial or anniversary of 9/11. And in each month, we have a little gathering downtown in Austin to bring people together. Again, we're not creating a new product or service. We are the bridge that brings them all together. So, I just like fixing problems where I see them and working with cool people on hard problems. And so, I just keep building.
[00:31:12.100] - John S. Berry
And that sounds like a ton of fun, but we know that it's not always fun. It's sometimes in doing the hard things and working through the problems where it's the least fun that you realize that it's worth it.
[00:31:25.030] - John S. Berry
Yeah. Yeah. Well, another organization I started called US Tomorrow. So, the whole point of US Tomorrow on the website, ustomorrow.us, is I want to keep a dialogue going publicly out there on the interwebs and in social media. To remind all of us that we have more in common than that which separates us. And the reason why I think it's important to have voices like yours and mine reminding people of this, and I'm glad for what you do with your podcast, uh, in nearly, what, nearly 200 episodes, is to be a constant voice to remind people that what they see in TV, the politics of division, the clickbait that they get online from Twitter and Facebook, that that's not the real America, certainly not the one I know. Uh, and so it is tiring. And to your point, you know, I, I'll write articles about the fact that, you know, guess what, the center is closer to where we need to be. And then I'll get people— hate mail is a strong way to say it— but who will write back and say, I'll never work with that side, and they're all bad, and they're all like— no, that's the clickbait getting to you.
[00:32:27.150] - Joseph Kopser
Step away from the news, go walk at a garden or walk through the forest, get your head straight or get your head clear, and then come back and re-engage on these tough issues. But it can be tough. Especially when you look to our politics today. So, but it's a battle worth fighting.
[00:32:41.870] - John S. Berry
It takes a lot of courage to throw yourself out there because, as you know, there are public servants like you and then there are the public serpents. There are the people who are involved in politics for all the wrong reasons.
[00:32:53.990] - Joseph Kopser
Oh, what a phrase.
[00:32:55.440] - John S. Berry
Yeah.
[00:32:55.780] - Joseph Kopser
Yeah.
[00:32:56.030] - John S. Berry
So, I actually heard that from a great trial lawyer. He was actually referring to, I think, prosecutors. But it doesn't matter, right, that there were public servants who wanted to do the right thing. They're the public serpents who wanted to further their career and use political power to do that. And I've always found that, you know, that that is true. And if you want to know who the servants are, those are the people who raise their right hand to support and defend the Constitution of the United States. Those are the people I know I can count on to defend that Constitution and government.
[00:33:23.940] - Joseph Kopser
Yeah. I think that's why we need more vets in business, why we need more vets in nonprofits, why we need more vets in academia, why we need more vets in politics. I fundamentally believe that whether you have been through the hardship of combat, just the fact you've been away from your family, you've been separated from the comforts of life, you've stood in the rain or been baked by the sun in the desert— like, not everybody does that. And to go through that hardship teaches you. I think your catchphrase on one— on your opening of your show is, from the tip of the spear to the rear with the gear. Like You personally have been through the entire gamut of that military experience, and so many of us have, that when you are in the civilian world and you see things that aren't near as tragic or heartbreaking as seeing a fallen soldier or seeing a fallen comrade, but it's a PowerPoint slide that wasn't centered, or it was someone that was late for understandable, decent reason. Let's just not make it a habit. I just don't understand people who lose all that context because, as I say, once you've been shot at in combat or separated from your family for a long period of time, surely you can have the perspective to realize that whether or not the lunch was on time isn't worth yelling about.
[00:34:44.040] - Joseph Kopser
So anyway, that's just my take on that too.
[00:34:46.150] - John S. Berry
So true. That takes us to the after-action review. Your example of great leadership and your example of poor leadership. Don't have to name names.
[00:34:55.100] - Joseph Kopser
Yeah, uh, so when it comes to great leadership, two stand out over the decades, and they come from the military community. No surprise. Robert W. Cohn— you should look him up, Google him. He is so inspiring. Unfortunately, cancer took him too soon from all of us, but he taught me so many of the values. And probably more than anything was the value of mentorship and growing that bench. And so when you Google me, Joseph Kopser, Joseph Kopser mentorship, you'll see his fingerprints all over it. Second person that really exemplified great leadership was Command Sergeant Major James D. Pippen, still alive and kicking today here in Texas. He's up in Archer City, uh, Graham, Texas area. And I love the guy so much. And, and our personalities, by the way, couldn't be more oil and water. Our styles, uh, just everything about us with one one common difference or one common similarity, which is we both care. Now, his way of caring is like a— I think his claim to fame was he was the only Ranger that had jumped into, uh, Grenada, Panama, Desert Storm, and Afghanistan. Or maybe not Grenada, but Afghanistan and Iraq.
[00:36:09.180] - Joseph Kopser
Like, this guy is badass. Uh, I love the guy so much. When we sold our company, Ride Scout, We created an endowment at the University of Texas at the School of Business for Veterans who want to build companies like we did. And that endowment helps support them in that effort. And we named it the James D. Pippen Award. Now, on the bad side, oh my gosh, every— almost every other boss I had in the Army was an absolute knucklehead. There are some bosses I had in the Army I never spoke to again. Once I signed my OER, went out into the front room, you know, it was my staff duty, and I signed out. I never looked back. And the common traits, the common traits among those leaders, uh, is what I've always tried to avoid, which is just being an ass for no other reason. To take that rank on your collar and just throw it around like that gave you some ability to be a jerk. Like, I just never understood it. Um, and then the other thing that they did was they had a false sense of their own bravado or competence, meaning they projected like they were all this and a bag of chips.
[00:37:17.680] - Joseph Kopser
And then behind the closed doors, they were completely incompetent. I had to cover for them in several different situations.
[00:37:23.930] - John S. Berry
They think they're all of that and a bag of chips and they're a soup sandwich, right?
[00:37:27.440] - Joseph Kopser
And everybody but them knows it. Everybody but them knows it.
[00:37:32.270] - John S. Berry
So, Joseph Kopser, where can Veterans learn more about you and your companies, all your organizations, and your book Catalyst. Yeah.
[00:37:41.340] - Joseph Kopser
So first and foremost, thank you for having me on the show and asking that question. I practically live on LinkedIn. As I like to say, Instagram is where you put, you know, pictures of flowers. Facebook is where you put pictures of breakfast. But LinkedIn is where business gets done. So I do quite a bit on LinkedIn. And then the two websites where you can find more about the stuff that I'm doing, is Grayline Group, as we said, and josephkopser.com. And just one quick shameless plug with Grayline Group. So, what we're doing right now is we're pivoting because AI and these tools are happening so fast that we see a real opportunity for leadership in business to step in, which is I can give you all the tools of AI and you can have a successful business. But in the middle, if you don't have somebody who can speak both languages of business leadership and experience, with technology and how these tools work, you're not going to be successful. You're going to be spinning your wheels, or you're going to be paying too much or not getting the results you wanted. So, at Grayline Group, you'll see on our website, we are pivoting to what we call applied intelligence, not artificial intelligence, but applied intelligence.
[00:38:49.390] - Joseph Kopser
And guess what? That's where I fit in. I've always been a communicator, a connector, bridging worlds and bridging gaps. And so, we're excited about— so we can help any of your viewers on that. And then on the military Veteran side, helping them to that ex-agent stage. In fact, there's a link on my LinkedIn profile, book an appointment. I give up 15 minutes almost every single day to talk to somebody who I don't know, uh, because I, 30 years ago, I needed that. I needed that person to talk to, and I want to hopefully be there for as many people as I can.
[00:39:19.940] - John S. Berry
Yeah, and one of the reasons why I was so adamant about getting you on this show was because you personify what the reason I started Veteran Led, which is to build that bigger, better future after military service. And for us, we found that we were getting Veterans their disability benefits, making sure they were being taken care of. And we thought that, okay, if you can get benefits and you get medical treatment, like life is going to be good. But if you don't have the team, you don't have a mission. It doesn't stop the 22 suicides a day. It doesn't get Veterans back into the game. And I think in a previous podcast, you talked about like we spend like $18 billion on like leadership, like on our, on our military team members. And all that money that we're investing is going to waste. So, my question to you is this: for that Veteran that has that military career, either a great military career or maybe they just did their initial enlistment, got out, and they're looking for what's next. What's your best advice on how to find it?
[00:40:14.270] - Joseph Kopser
Pick where you want to live first, whether it's your hometown or someplace you think is cool. Pick where you want to live first and then go find that job there because you can always work remote and you can always bloom where you're planted. Pick where you want to live first for quality of life, quality of family. Pick where you want to live first.
[00:40:34.990] - John S. Berry
Joe, anything I left out or anything you want to, you want to throw in, we will cycle it back in. We'll clip it in. But is there anything I left out?
[00:40:42.540] - Joseph Kopser
No, I think the most important thing is what you've been hitting on this whole time, which is when people transition, no matter what age or stage they are in life, they're gonna need a team and a purpose. And that's what I've had so much fun over the last 15, 20 years, is helping people find theirs in the same way that people invested in me. And so, my challenge for your viewers is not only seek out that team, find that purpose, but when they find it, turn back and pull forward the next generation of folks looking for it, just as you're doing with this podcast. So, Thank you again for doing this podcast.
[00:41:21.140] - John S. Berry
Thank you for joining us today on Veteran Led, where we seek to help Veterans build an even bigger, better future after military service. Unfortunately, for some of our Veterans, the roadblock to a better future is that they are not receiving all of the benefits that they earned. If you need help appealing a VA disability decision, contact Berry Law.