Subscribe
Share
Share
Embed
Chasing the Game: Youth Soccer in America is a weekly podcast for soccer parents, coaches, and players who want to understand how youth soccer development really works in the United States.
Hosted by two dads, filmmaker Liron Unreich and investor Matt Tartaglia, the show covers everything from grassroots soccer to elite pathways like MLS NEXT and ECNL. Combining data, real experience, and expert insights from academy directors, college coaches, and former pros, each episode explains what families truly need to know.
Weekly episodes focus on the core aspects of youth soccer: player development, coaching culture, college recruiting, tryouts, travel costs, and the challenges of parenting in youth sports in today’s competitive environment.
For families navigating youth soccer’s complex system, Chasing the Game offers practical advice, credible voices, and relatable stories from two dads working to make sense of American player development, one episode at a time.
Welcome to another episode of Chasing the Game.
What a Way to start a new season.
Today's episode is for parents like me, not so much like Matt
who definitely said, look, what does an academy director actually do?
And my old-time classics is I could do that job blindfolded.
So we wanted to answer that question and it came up, that comes up every weekend.
Okay, sorry.
We wanted to answer questions that come up every weekend
Why does a club like Red Bulls show up with younger kids,
sometimes take a beating, still walk away like it was a good day?
And then every parent on the sideline on the other team goes, hmm, I want my kid to join that team.
Our guest
today is Sean McCaffrey, is the academy director for the New York Red Bulls.
Yep, take out your notebooks, pens start taking notes.
Let's get into it..
Liron: welcome to chasing the game.
Uh, you've gone from the pitches
of England and Ireland as a youth
player, young professional to now
being in the US for around 25 years,
And on top of one of us most
prolific academies in the last
seven years, the New York Red Bulls.
Sean: Yeah, no thanks.
Really appreciate you having me on.
Looking forward to it.
Um, as a parent of another 13 player
myself in, uh, an elite academy at PDA,
um, I'm on both sides of the pitches.
Uh, and depending on which, which weekend
it is, what, which, which, uh, day it is.
So, um,
Liron: My condolences by the way.
Sean: So now I enjoy, believe
me, sometimes it's a lot easier
being the dad, that's for sure.
Matt: Oh, that's great.
Um, Sean, thank you for
joining us.
I think One thing that stands out from
those of us outside of the Red Bull
ecosystem is the clarity and specifically.
The style of play, the verticality,
the intensity, the pressing, the ball,
winning, and then of course the player
archetype that fits into that system.
Um, you've seen MLS next evolve
so much.
You've now watched MLS Next
Pro come onto the scene.
I'd love to hear a
little bit about the evolution
that you've seen since you've
been at Red Bull and even going
further back, when you look
at the, the competitive youth
soccer system in the us.
Sean: Yeah, I mean, all of the things that
you alluded to are all positive things.
Um, 25 years ago there was maybe still
a few branches of, of leagues and
organizations, but certainly nowhere
near, as many as there are today.
But the most, most importantly for
me when I look at it, is the level of
professionalism, not only within MLS
academies, but elite academies and,
and, and even clubs who were potentially
doing ECNL or the other leagues.
Um, the level of coaching is
improved, drastically in my opinion.
I think the, the federation deserves
a lot of credit for how they kinda
revamped the coach education system,
and it was a lot more difficult.
Um, so.
The level of player, the depth of
talent is significantly better.
Um, which we see in the pitch,
in my opinion, every weekend.
Um, not just the quality obviously
that we have in this region.
We're very fortunate, but, um, I think
you look at the investment that's going
into the game is significantly more.
And to your first part in regard
to Red Bull, I appreciate you.
It's, uh, you talk about there's clarity
and how we play and how we look, but
I think one of the exciting things
as well is, is how we're evolving.
And how we're, we're, we've evolved a lot.
If you have, you know, if you have
the pleasure of watching our, our
second team this year, uh, under
Michael Bradley and the football they
played and how dominant they were and
the goals we scored, and it's kind
of a glimpse into where we're going.
I think we, at the academy, we,
we've been a bit like that as well.
I think we're so much better with the ball
than maybe people give us credit for, but
I think that's changing the narrative,
which is, um, you know, honestly
these types of conversations can do
Matt: before we get into the, the,
the depth of our conversation.
I'd love to, for the parents and our
listeners who don't quite understand
what exactly an academy director is
for a professional academy like Red
Bull, New York, red Bull, can you
give us a glimpse into your world?
How do you spend your time?
What does your staff look
like, um, and everything else?
that comes, that comes in
Sean: Yeah, so I've, I've come from
a coaching background, uh, but as
many coaches have done in the elite
academy level, you have to coach
and then you be a director as well.
You put out, you wear many hats.
Um, so, but the, you know, certainly
when you move to a club, the stature of,
of New York Red Bulls, if you kind of
have to make a decision and my decision
must become an academy director and,
and the longer coach team teams, and
it's genuinely been the best decision
I've ever made because you get the,
in my opinion, impact a lot more.
You know, you have to, you are working
with the, the heads of departments,
you're working with the coaches on
various things such as, you know,
playing method, you know, the coaching
methodology, the, the playing style.
Different players discussions on who
needs to move up, who needs to be, um,
you know, could be needs, real bio band
that, there's just so much that goes on.
But I've really learned my job and
what makes my job, uh, certainly
a lot easier day to day is.
Bringing in the best people.
It's all about the people and, and again,
the best coaches with the best mentality.
People who are, have no egos, who
are humble, who are people who have
growth mindset and want to learn and,
and are open to different ways of.
Teaching different ways
of, of developing players.
And so we've been fortunate,
um, and certainly recently just
bigger and even more investment
in the subject matter experts.
Uh, our sports performance coach, uh,
who oversees the medical kind of again,
sports performance side of our academy,
came from Nashville's first team.
So we're bringing in some more subject
matter experts to, to provide the best
kind of resources for our players to,
to, to bring, you know, again, more
of them and higher level through,
uh, into our professional ranks.
So my job is to make sure that bringing
the right people in for the positions,
um, certainly supporting, guiding
them, checking in and challenging
them is, is, is also critical from,
you know, but with positive intent.
Um, and, and the more people that I
can have in that are doing their jobs
to a higher level, genuinely my job
becomes the easiest in the academy.
Um, but that's, that's what I've learned.
Liron: I mean, it,
you know, and I mean, we're all
parents here, so when you start
looking for schools for your kids.
one of the things you look at is the
principal and in a youth academy.
And I, I know this is something
that's actually has been
uh, opaque to me.
It doesn't matter who the
director of a certain football
club is at the youth level.
Uh, is there a, a kind of a personality?
where you go, Okay, this is a director
you've heard from other parents that
is the right personality, or really
the academies are just, are bigger than
the directors in that, in that age?
Sean: it's probably
different club by club.
I know academy directors that maybe
came from the scouting profession.
There's one, uh, directors that came
from, could be an analytics, and again,
my background's coaching, but it's
definitely not a one shoe fits all.
Um, it, it depends what
you want from a club.
I, I, I genuinely think from our
standpoint, we like to think and we try
and have it where there's no hierarchy.
Like again, everybody's job is just
as important as certainly as mine.
Everybody's voice is, is needs to be
heard as well because you get nowhere.
With dictatorship, you get
nowhere with somebody thinking
that their way's the best way.
Uh, again, I don't think for one minute
that that, that I have all the answers.
I don't.
Um, and so my job again is to maybe
create a bit of a culture where people
are valued and people are heard.
Um, um, and again, don't get me wrong,
it's, it's, you know, when there's certain
things we wanna get done, then yeah, the,
the buck will stop with me and I have to
be able to make that decision as well.
But I, I just find that
a more en enjoyable.
Uh, environment to come into.
I think everybody feels relaxed.
Nobody feels against threatened because
there's clarity on our, our purpose.
And our purpose is really,
really, really simple.
Is to develop these young players
and young men into the, the
best versions of themselves.
Whether that be players that go on to a
play on our first team such as Tyler Adams
and go to Europe, or the young Daniel
Edelman who didn't come to us until he
was 17 and, and, and, and then these other
young players coming through Julian Hall.
Or is it the players that go to college
or, and be their stars in a Division
three, division two, division one.
It's whatever the best version
of themselves is, then it's our
responsibility and our obligation
to, to, to get them there.
Um, and so, but we all have the same job.
So the athletic trainer's job is
important to keep them healthy.
That job is as important
as me as a director.
Um, so everybody's valuable.
Liron: So let's say, like, uh, Matt, Matt
alluded to the the, the philosophy and the
idea behind Red Bulls is almost chiseled
in stone, and may, maybe it is changing.
but you spend time at the Barca Academy
in Arizona, for example, so that DNA
of that club is very different than
the DNA of Red Bulls as, as far as just
layman's term looking from the outside in.
So you as a person, Sean, what
is your effect in, in both clubs?
Is there is, does it matter that there's
a Sean or is it, can two directors
with two different philosophies
basically give the same results?
in, in a certain team?
Sean: I think what's.
Similar in regards to both clubs
is they both have a clear identity.
So it's, it's, whether it's
me as a director or somebody
else, it's honestly irrelevant.
Um, I'm not coming in thinking I'm
gonna change bars of methodology or
rebels, but my job is certainly to
make sure that the everyday environment
that we're adhering to those standards
and what's, what our end goal is,
that it's being worked towards that.
Matt: 1 Of the things that, uh,
has always fascinated me about.
a, a academy director at a professional
club like Red Bull is that you
Start at the pre academy level
You work your way all the way up.
Now there's MLS next pro,
you have the first team.
Um, How do you think about that as
far as your overall responsibility?
Like how much of your time are you
spending now focused on the U fifteens,
and sixteens, getting to MLS next
pro, if that's their path, or getting
to the first team and then working
with the first team staff as far as
what that looks like for the
developments of the players.
Sean: Of the players.
Yeah, it's, it's a great question and,
and, and in my mind, I was very fortunate
when I took the position because our
youth programs was the best in class in
North America, and still is that, that
was the best part about the academy.
I'll be honest.
Um, the, the foundation level is
just so, so strong with the pre
academy teams, the number of teams,
the, the, again, it was just, it was
such a good, a good place already.
It was up to us to honestly raise the
standards of the academy, uh, and what
we were doing, uh, more subject matter
experts, again, bringing the right types
of players to evolve and, and, and, and
certainly, um, you know, I would say a
lot more footballers, uh, to be able to,
to, to kind of bring to life the, the
philosophy that we wanted to evolve to.
Um, but that pyramid and
that alignment is critical.
And one of the best things about,
certainly the academy, second team, first
team, we're all in the same building.
We're all on the same training
facility, so there's a great connection.
Um, you know, we have weekly meetings with
our sporting director, Julian de Guzman,
to go through everything with the academy.
Um, we have biweekly meetings with
first team staff, leadership coaches
to talk about the next players.
So there's platforms and, and things
in place to make sure we're talking
about the right things, uh, and
putting our players in front of them.
And, um, so the alignment
is there and it's great.
Um, obviously as you, as you both
know, red Bull is a club globally
that wants to develop young players
and push young players through.
There's no, I mean, we use it all
the time as you know, you're good
enough, you're old enough, which is,
you know, again, it's not an opinion.
Just look at the evidence.
Right.
They started, you know, even with Tyler
Matt Meka going way back till recently
with Julian Hall, you know, Eddi
making his debut at 15, captain in the
second team to the championship at 16.
And so all these young players
that are coming through.
Um, it's just, it's just part of
our identity and, and who we are.
And so as an academy director and that
connection and, and again, the daily
conversations with the staff, second
team, first team, and it's, it's,
it matters that, it just matters.
And, and so that alignment
for us is, has been critical.
And being able to push these players
through somewhat, I say seamlessly,
um, certainly over the last few years.
So not perfect.
Now we're working on improving
some things, but, um, it's been.
From the first day I come in
to now, again, significant
improvement in that way.
Um, and then we've hired, um, staff,
you talk about the job of director,
you can't be everywhere at once.
So the fifteens and sixteens,
uh, and 18 schedules identical.
So that's where I go, that's where
I prioritize my time, simply because
they're the ones that are closest
to the second team and first team.
But then we brought in a subject matter
expert who's really good at those
younger age groups to do exactly the same
as, as I'm doing with the older ones.
And then as we talked about, the youth
programs, the tens, elevens, twelves
have now come under our umbrella.
Uh, and so it's, we we're just, we've
never been as aligned and, and we're,
and again, we're not perfect and
we're trying with things to improve
on, but we've, we're a lot closer to
what I would call a, a top European
standard than we've ever been.
Liron: you touched on two things
that, that I want to address.
One is you said the word philosophy
and you said the word best.
so.
Coming on the parent point of view
let's say their son is good enough
to go to a team like Red Bulls or
N-Y-C-F-C where they go, okay, I'll
choose it by the philosophy of the club.
Whereas the concept is what you said
No, let's look at the best club,
where the numbers are the best.
what would you advise parents?
Is it about philosophy, is it about best?
is it about getting the
opportunity when it comes to you?
Sean: listen, it's a tough one
and I'm gonna answer with, and
it's not a politically correct
answer, it's just what I believe.
It's what is the best fit for your son?
I mean, again, and I look at this, so
your daughter, um, when I go watch my
son play, I don't care what level he is
playing at, I just wanna watch him play.
So the most important thing for me and my
son is that he's somewhere where he plays.
And he doesn't have to play every
minute, but he has to have fair play in
time goes, I just wanna watch him play.
And that's genuinely all I want.
I I, if he's on a better team and not
playing, is he getting better for me?
No.
So if
if he needs to come and play rec, but
then he goes and plays rec and I'll
watch him and I'll enjoy him just as
much, whether, you know what I mean?
As, so I think sometimes we, we, we, and I
deal with this, uh, I was again a director
for, at FC Delco for a long, sometimes
they just want to say they're on a team.
And it's the same with
going to a certain college.
They, well, I'm at, I don't know, let's
pretend UNC, you haven't played, you
haven't played in two years, so why not
go somewhere where you're gonna play or
if you're okay with that and understanding
it, but that's the right fit for you.
So it's, it's whatever's the right fit.
I the most important is that they
train more than they play, right?
And I maybe like to see a better
balance in that with the younger age
groups, but that everyday training
environment, what's he being learning?
Does he enjoy it?
Is he, is he getting better?
Is he being challenged?
So, you know, I think that's so
important when fighting the right spot.
And, and for, for anybody that's, you
know, whether it's US or N-Y-C-F-C
or depending where you live, But they
have choices and the families have
to, what's, what's the best for them?
And it might be what certain age group,
or it might be the way teams play.
But, um, the most important thing I,
and the best advice I would give any
parent is again, is if you're gonna
go right, do you know how hard it is?
'cause everybody thinks they're,
you know, matter, everybody.
Some people, you kids gonna be a pro.
Do you know how hard to become
a professional at anything?
Right?
It's, it's, it's so difficult.
So the likelihood is really unlikely.
So just put 'em in the place where
they're happy, they're the happiest.
You talked about it earlier, you
know, is it a two minute drive
versus an hour and a half drive?
Yeah, probably go two minute drive.
It's a good situation
or it's similar and
that's the reality of it.
But as they get a little bit older
and some of these players are looking
at, they might be professional, then
sometimes the commitment or the drive
might be worth it because that's a better
environment and that's a better fit
than gives their son a better chance.
Um, but it really is a case by case.
Matt: it's a, it's, it's
a, it's a great answer.
Um, and as a dad going
through this, I've, I've,
I've, I've succumbed to
some of the pressure, right?
Which is, well, this is a better
club, or that's a better club.
or This is a better coach, or this is a
better director, or whatever it may be.
And I'd like to think
I'm not alone, right?
Because ultimately we all want
what's best for our kids and
sometimes what's best for our kids
isn't what we necessarily And uh,
and those are tough lessons to
learn, which I think we're all
going through it in real time.
And it could be, it could be the
best thing in one moment, but
not the best thing a month later.
And I, I think that in the world
we live in today, where we have a
microscope into what everybody else is
doing in their perfect worlds, right?
It adds to the pressure of, oh, if
my son's not here by U 13 or U 14,
he's never gonna be there by, U 17.
we all know that's not true.
we all know there's so much development
that happens physically, emotionally,
mentally, All of it, right?
In that, in that time.
But I do think it's been the toughest
thing for me to balance, and I think
it's been very, very difficult for a lot
of the, the parents and families that,
that, you know, we stay pretty close
with.
Sean: pretty Uh, it's, I mean, one, one
of our coaches said it, and it's like
we have to be experts in patients and
we have to understand, we're really
lucky that we can do some things
where it's, you know, uh, for certain
positions, a goalkeeper is, you know,
let what's, let's do some measurements.
Are they ever gonna be tall
enough to be a goalkeeper?
That's, that's something we'll look
at then if somebody's gonna be.
My height.
Yeah, we're, we're wasting time and this
player should go play somewhere else, be
a good youth goalkeeper, but they're not
for us, a center back, maybe the same,
but everybody else is a bit different.
So you get some educated guesses
of what you can do in development.
But normally the best 12, 13, 14-year-old
is not the best 17, 18-year-old.
We just so many examples of it.
They just, you know, until about under
16 in our opinion, we really genuinely
can't tell because, and even then,
it's such a, a difficult task because
of different variables and, you know,
life moments and, and things like that.
But we just have to give these players
a chance and we have to be experts and
patience to let them develop, let them
go through that really, really awkward
stage as well when about 14 or 15 and
they're like newborn deers and new
bodies and, and things of that nature.
So I just think also maybe as
parents, we're just probably expecting
too much of these young players.
We always use the, again, people
get paid millions of dollars to go
out and be inconsistent every week.
So why do we think our sun's
gonna be any different?
Matt: It's so true.
Sean: So true.
Matt: Uh, I'm, I'm curious,
Sean: curious,
Matt: the philosophy of Red
Bull, the origins as well, and
what's led to that philosophy
when you're looking for players.
And let's talk about at the U
15 level, Maybe not at the U 12
level, because to your point.
So much changes between
U 12 and U 15.
What are the non-negotiables for a
player to come in, to be scouted, to
come into Red Bull, where ultimately
you think they're gonna be successful?
Sean: We, we look for players
who are brilliant at the basics.
And what I mean by that is are
they, you know, do they move well?
Are the soft feet their ability to play
quickly when, when it's needed to play
quickly, their ability to understand
the game of when to play, you know,
to stay on the ball and dribble to
maybe, you know, to slow the game down.
So we're looking for those players
who are showing signs of can they
understand football at the next
level and not youth football, right?
Where it's just, you know, seven
step overs YouTube, and that's not,
that's, that's not football, right?
So we're looking at, those
are the, again, the 0.01%.
So, and those players that show,
uh, an ability to adapt quickly.
So they come in on trial and we have
a comprehensive process of scouting
them for X amount of games, seeing
video, talking to their clubs,
making sure that it's the right time.
and eventually if we bring them in,
we've made it more difficult to bring
players in because we also wanna protect
our environment that everyday training
environment is our biggest controllable.
So it is more difficult these days
to get a trial, but we like to
think then the ones that do come in
definitely have something, right?
That it's, you can call it
football intelligence, you call it.
They're technicians and would
you like to have it all?
Yes, but they're not gonna have it all.
And then genuinely that engagement,
that level of focus and engagement
from start to finish, so they have
that drive and that it's almost that
look on their face where you can
see he's got the right mentality.
Like he, different.
And so those players stand
out like a sore thumb to us in
the same way where people are.
They switch off or they look in
their eyes and they look, they
stand out like a sore thumb as well.
So, nothing crazy.
and again, U 15, we're still,
looking for what did they do?
It's different exceptional that maybe
other players of the same age don't do.
So it could be something that's a
technique, it could be something
that's just dominant and aerial,
like center back just wins
everything and does simple things.
Great.
It could be somebody who's a next level
change of pace and, but nine times outta
10 is, are they good decisions makers?
Do they make the good
decisions at the right times?
And that can be varied, um, of what that
decision is, but it just shows a higher
level of understanding of football.
And we think that translates
to the next level.
Like just football intelligence, call
it, there's different words for it, like,
they'll just work, they'll kick, they'll
just do the dirty work because I've
never met a player who's just gotten to
become a professional with talent alone.
It's not enough.
It's nowhere near enough.
Matt: Hey Sean, Can you coach decision
making, or is decision making something
that a player is either born with or
not born And if you are coaching it?
how
Sean: my answer is yes,
So it's, you can teach anything, you
can teach people to get better at it.
Some people will be better than others
and we'll pick certain things up more,
uh, maybe more, maybe more quickly or so.
But it all comes from also are,
are they watching the game a lot?
Right.
We're not teaching that, but
are they, are they watching?
Um, I'm again a Liverpool fan.
I grew up watching Peter
Beardsley, John Barnes.
So I just, I just mimicked what they did.
We didn't have coaches,
my dad and another dad.
We didn't have professional
coaches and growing up, so I just
mimicked what those players did.
So that's learning the game and
that's, you call it, you learn 'cause
you watch it and you, and you try
and replicate it and you're maybe
not perfect, but you get better.
And then our training methodology
and everybody's that has to, where
it has to be where it's brought out.
So, you know, the closer it is to the
game will help decision making the
further it is away from the game, has
nothing to do with decision making.
Has nothing to do with tech
technical development in our opinion.
But as many, and we're, we're
evolving here and we're trying to
get better in this area as well.
But as many, just every activity
is bringing as close to the game
as possible because you need
opponents for decision making.
You need real spaces and
pressure for decision making.
And of course.
Then that's just one part.
Then how do you execute well is does
it need one touch, does it need two
touch, does whatever that requires,
and then the more they do it and the
more they learn from it and you start
to, there's less mistakes, you start
to limit the, and that's just them
getting better because they've seen
the, seen the picture 10,000 times.
So now it becomes, people then say,
it becomes repe becomes instinct.
Right.
Then it becomes a bit more,
because they're doing that.
Then again, we're a big believer and
you need opponents for that versus in
isolation because there's no decision
making in when there's no opponents.
There's no technique.
When there's no opponents.
It's easy.
Matt: Yeah.
Is is, I, I think this may be the first
year, but I could be wrong, where the
MLS professional academies are playing,
starting at U 15 or playing up a year.
Sean: up a
Matt: Is that right?
Again,
against the non, against the non
MLS, so against the elite academies,
not against the professional.
academies.
Sean: Correct, correct.
It's a fantastic, fantastic.
It's been unbelievable,
uh, fantastic initiative.
So obviously the eighteens or the
nineteens, most MLS clubs are gonna
be playing up because it, the better
ones are on the second team or even
on the first team in our case, right?
I think there's, yeah.
I mean, we're going to fest tomorrow the
eighteens, and there's probably 10 players
that could come that are not right.
So the eighteens that's normal.
That was set up that way anyway.
But now our sixteens, when
they play elite academies will
play against their seventeens.
And when our fifteens will
play elite academies, they'll
play against their sixteens.
It's fantastic.
It's brilliant and it's
the way it should be.
The games have been just so much
better, such a struggle, uh, uh, for
our players, um, for most of them.
It's this way around the world.
So we, we should be, but even
then, there's some really, in
our region, as you know, there's
some really, really good clubs.
We played appropriate.
They're as good as us and
they can beat us sometimes.
And we're always playing
younger players up.
And so great.
Fantastic.
I mean, that's what we want.
We don't want, like, we go out every
week, I win five zero against every team.
Nobody's developing.
It's a waste of time.
Um, it's, it's just, and so again, I would
love to even see the fourteens next year.
Maybe they're playing some fifteens
and just the players should be almost
winning a third, drawing a third and
losing a third f just to face it, every
type of emotion, adversity success.
Um, because for me, that's development.
We call it false progress.
If you're winning all the
time, it's just false progress.
You think you're better than you are.
And so we end up doing a lot of,
we invest a lot of money in going
international to Brazil, to Europe, um,
to show them that there's, you know,
the Northeast is a, a very talented
area, but it's still a goldfish bowl.
And, and compared to world football,
Matt: Sure
Liron: I is.
this,
this is what you said is just
so, is so, crystal clear.
But is this something that's
explained to parents or
to the kids at the, who
are in the, I mean, I'm not
talking about the older
older kids, but in the academy
or some sometimes have a
hard time not understanding why Red
Bull shows up with four younger players
or six younger players on our roster
going home
losing five, nothing.
But in a way is, is that
philosophy explained to, your
teammates and is that something
that you even need to explain to?
anybody?
Sean: to?
Um, I don't, we do an
orientation where we try and set.
I guess expectations.
This is what it's going to be,
this is what it's not going to be.
We really set it with
the families early on.
We take him to the stadium and
we say, listen, um, your son's
not gonna be great every week.
Your son's not gonna play every week, so
don't expect he's gonna play every week.
It's, this is a really
challenging environment.
Getting here is difficult.
Staying here is even more difficult.
So embrace the difficulty.
Don't complain about it.
Don't moan about it.
Don't, um, you know, we,
we always have a thing.
Don't play the victim like a victim
is blaming every single thing.
Everybody's at fault, everything.
The weather, everything except, well,
it's just going through a tough time.
No, just embrace it.
No problem.
We'll get through it.
And so we try and again, not be victims.
We certain we try and tell 'em
that we have a little bit of a wire
mentality is embrace everything.
The good times are easy, right?
Again, but for us, and certainly
me, I don't look at our teams.
I look at the players.
My job is to bring players through.
Uh, and that's the coach's job as well,
but they're obviously coaching the team.
But who are the players that really, you
know, stand out when the times are tough?
They're the ones normally who make it.
When you talk about what's the
difference, their mentality and who
can, who can embrace the tough times
and who can, who rolls their sleeves
up and, and who and who shrinks.
And he goes and there's a shell
that they're only interested
when things are going well.
Uh, it's a big telltale sign for
me of, of who's gonna progress.
So those games against those, we call
'em adversity games, we used to have to
do them before they made this change.
We wanted them to get
kicked around, stumped.
We wanted them to be run past, we wanted
them to get beat because that's who
you find out who the real players are.
That's who you find out who can
adapt and who can, who can survive.
And normally the the top
ones, you know, they survive.
Matt: And it drives the, uh, it
drives the elite clubs who their kids
have all geared up to play, whether
it's 2011 or 12, and they show up.
And it's Red Bull's 2013 team
drives them out of their mind
Liron: Message board, message
board, WhatsApp, message
board on how many 20 thirteens they had on
that team.
Matt: But, But but I understand I mean,
but your job as you said, is to develop.
players and it's to think about the
players in the Red Bull program.
It's not necessarily,
You can't always
be thinking about the affiliate
teams or the other clubs.
right?
Sean: But, yeah.
But, and and we're, and, and, but, and
again, we're really, there's certain
teams that will play appropriate.
'cause again, like I said before,
they're just really, really good.
Some age groups have
more depth than others.
And I'll give you an example.
Our 2012 and Cedar Stars 3-3.
Then they beat us 4-0.
We didn't, we had a few, a number of
players playing up, but it doesn't matter.
It's, but that's it.
That's, that's the way
it's supposed to be.
It's again, Yeah.
I don't want, we don't want an
environment where we're going
around thumping everybody.
I mean, what good does that do?
It's, these players need to
experience the adversity part.
They need to experience, and, and
again, if the Elite Academy comes
and, and beats an MLS team in
which they will and, and across the
country, it happens all the time.
Fantastic.
That means we're doing a really good job
at the Elite Academies as well at that.
And so we have to celebrate that.
It's not just the MLS academies.
Uh, they're investing a lot of
money and, and full-time directors.
Full-time coaches, and we
have good facilities so.
Again, it's um, you know, we're
certainly not sitting and thinking
we got all the answers and we're, no,
we have to, we work really closely
with the elite academies 'cause they
developed some top, top, top players.
Daniel Edelman did not come to us until
he was 17 from PDA, so to say Red Bulls
developed Daniel Edelman would be a lie.
It was PDA, we just were, uh, a
platform to take the next step.
Right.
Then we, we gave him the second
team and then Daniel was the one
obviously that that kicked on.
So, and there's other players, I think
Audrey's been with us since he was
eight and he'll play for the first team.
And, and, and Tyler is the same way.
And so there's various
players of various journeys.
And one of the things we say at the
orientation, and I think it's one of
them, probably the one I'm redundant
with the most, is don't compare your
son's journey with anybody else's.
Because that's the biggest, I would
say, pitfall the families get into is,
well, he gets it, it doesn't matter.
This is uncontrollable.
Just focus on your son and
what best for your son.
And is he happy?
Great.
Yes.
Is he playing enough minutes?
Great.
Yes.
Right, because every time it's not great.
we teach him the worst lesson
we'll go somewhere else.
Well, it's not easier somewhere else.
Right.
It's not, it's the same.
It's challenging.
So we just don't compare.
Everybody's journey is
completely different.
Liron: in relations to that, like
it's about measuring success, right?
It's, so when you look in, in internally
within your pyramid, do you have different
measurements of success within every
year as far as goals you have to reach?
Because I look at it on the parent side.
Let's say if I'm already at the
MLS next level or, pro level, do
I immediately just go, okay, every
year is about this pro college path.
If not, it's a complete bust or, uh,
there are kind of benchmarks for that.
Sean: we're, we're very fortunate
in our club where, you know, we've
never had to put this is what's,
uh, this year's been great and this
year's been per, you know what I mean?
It's for us is, you know, uh, it is
the first team full of academy players.
A certain percentage.
It's always been, yes.
So we've been lucky in that regard.
The second team, the same way, and again,
that's due to the, the, the great market.
We have the great player
pool we have in this area.
Um, we have, I mean,
everybody's from somewhere else.
We have every type of player you want.
We have them and it's, it's fantastic.
We're really fortunate and lucky.
So, um, I often say players will.
Come become pros here, regardless of who's
in charge, uh, and who's running things.
But I think with the more professional
people and the subject matter experts, we
can bring through more and higher level.
That's, that's the goal, right?
And so there's players here and players
will come through everywhere just because
they're good players, but can we bring
through more of them and can we bring
higher level ones that can again, go and
play in the top leagues in Europe and stay
there and help the national team as well?
And, and, and so we've seen that
already in the growth in that.
So I think it's only going one
direction, which is fantastic.
Um, and then that's one level.
And then below that, like the, the,
the US L Championship Championship
League has grown, right, and
gotten stronger MLS next pro.
So it's just more opportunities for
players to become professional players
and continue playing as long as they can.
And so it's, it's, again, it's only going
one direction, which is really exciting.
Matt: how has, your Mindset or framework
changed a little bit
with MLS next pro?
When you think of a
U 15 or U 16, let's call it a U 16
player, and they're approaching,
continuing on through the Academy
are they moving into next Pro and
then potentially to the first team.
Obviously you've, the player has more
options and you have more options.
but what does the thought process
look like around some of that?
Sean: Yeah.
So we always say if somebody's the
best player in an age group, then the
wrong, they're in the wrong place.
Right?
So we need to keep pushing 'em up and
dipping them into the, well, the A teams.
Okay.
If you're the best
players in the eight, so.
We, we kind of have a home base
training, so we have a lot of players
who will train with the second team
and then play with the eighteens.
We of players will train with the first
team and then play with the second team.
So most importantly is they need to play
the top players need to play every week
as much as we can, 90 minutes every week.
But then can we stretch them and can
we challenge 'em every day in training?
So if, if that's what it needs to be,
a 15, our top 15 and 16 year olds,
the best ones are gentleman, the team.
That's, that's just how it is.
And we push them and it's great
because we're right there.
And some of them are push and pull.
Some of them are go and stay, that they
adapt quickly and that's where they are.
And, and then some of them
go and contribute again.
I can talk to, you know, the
goalkeeper was in oh eight,
left back was in oh eight.
Uh, the, the starting midfielder
was in oh nine, uh, again, oh eight.
So it was like a, like an average
age was 19 of the second team.
So it's a lot of young players and
then players sprinkled in who have a
bit more experience like Andy Rojas
mascara who are a bit little bit older.
I say older 2005 maybe, but, so it's
just such a, we're, we're, you know.
Right.
I, uh, underpants older than that, but,
but ge but genuinely it's, I forget.
He did a study one time and they asked,
let's pretend there was a thousand pros.
What was the biggest reason that
they felt that they made it to
the professional level and it
was really something ridiculous?
Like 90% said training and
playing with older players.
So again, when you talk about putting
best with best and putting the players
in environments where they have to
adapt with a young player who's a ball
carrier, and then as soon as you put 'em
up there, you can't, you can't get away.
So nice.
They become a one touch, two touch
player and add more tools to the toolbox.
And, and so they just have to understand
what the next level of football looks
like and what it feeds like because
you, good youth players don't always
translate to good professional players.
We've seen that numerous times.
And um, so the ones that really adapt
and figure it out quickly and, and are
able to stay there and train there more
and, and then get minutes again, that's
the ones that are exciting to see.
And it's great 'cause then once they
leave the eighteens or the sixteens,
then it's, that means other players
are getting pushed up to backfill and
it just, it's a, it's that kind of
conveyor belt I would say look about it.
We just, and if somebody signs
a first team contract, great.
Who's the next one up?
Who's the next one up?
So that's the mentality.
And again, luckily we're the club that
gives young players opportunities always.
Matt: Well, and, and you have the, you
have the benefit.
of being able to have a
kid go train at Salzburg
for a week or train it.
Uh,
Sean: Leipzig we just had
players at Leipzig Yeah.
The end of the season.
So we had, uh, two th we had
2009 Adri Mehmeti Train.
Were the first team at Leipzig during the
international break, which is invaluable.
It's, you know, this's this, this,
this is, this is where we're fortunate.
We're, and then, uh,
Julian Hall was there.
Aiden Stokes the goalkeeper.
They came back from the World Cup of
the seventeens and went directly there.
Um, we have a player in Tino in
Brazil, Matthew DeSantos 08 left back.
And so this is the player of
Red Bull that differentiates
us from almost everybody else.
Um, and we, we use it to the maximum.
When I tell you that we, we use it
as much as we take teams over there.
We take some of our top
prospects over there.
Um, it, it's just such a close
connection with the clubs we
play in one, two, we play in.
You know, every August we go
to Salzburg with the sixteenths
for a tournament every August.
Then in February we go to Brazil and,
and so we've just so many times where
all the technical leadership are there,
the players are there, and you're
just talking football best practices.
What we do, seeing the players.
And so we're just really lucky that
Red Bull has this really, you know,
again, a lot of clubs, not muah clubs
have this MCO approach, but we feel
that we're so connected and we, we
feel that's just an advantage for us.
Liron: can you spot a moment when when you
go, okay, that player, forget the biology
for a second, but that player has it or
that player, can a parent recognize it?
Is it something that,
how does that kind of.
Sean: does that kind of
Liron: Go about, is there a moment to
go, okay, there's a trait in this kid
that gives him a chance to, to step
it up a little bit versus the pool,
Matt: Sean Lauren has convinced himself
that he's a parent who can identify it.
Liron: Uh,
Matt: can you d you I'm gonna, I'm, I'm,
I'm gonna leave it to you to dispel the
Liron: established.
I, I can run a camera.
I cannot run a mic.
I can't do any of those things.
Gimme one thing I can't do,
Sean: So, um, I think normally, it's
a certain moment where you think
that's different and it's normally
a younger player moment, right.
Where you think that's so different,
that's so mature what he did.
Um, getting back to decision making
and football intelligence, when
we see young players who are.
Scanners, proper scanners.
Not just moving their head
but actually checking.
'cause then they're able to solve
the problem in different ways.
So they know when it has to be one
touch, they know where they have to turn
certain direction versus the other one.
They know when they can roll somebody they
know, they just 'cause they've, they've
taken the pictures before, uh, players
who do what we call the critical scan.
Whereas like the, the picture they've
taken, they know that it's gonna change.
So as that ball's moving and it's
almost there, they have to retake the
picture to make sure something change.
And then just the, you still have to,
the technique to execute, don't get
me wrong, but when I see players like
that, and it's probably my, it's not
even my unconscious bias, it's my bias.
Midfielders 'cause I play, I just love,
I, when I look at players like that,
I think, oh, they've got something.
They, they can solve the problem in
various ways and again, be brilliant
at the basic ways of doing it.
'cause there's players who are Dribblers,
who stand out, who can be one V one and
you know, but they always cut inside.
Oh, bit predictable.
You know what I mean?
So that, can he go outside and, but I
just think the players who just have
a good feel for the game, genuinely.
I love players who pass a ball well
and I I don't mean just hard like
the correct weight that and, and they
seem to have, uh, the timing of it.
So those are the moments where
I think, and we've got loads
of them in the club, honestly.
We've got loads of them in the club.
The physical bit was,
is what I look at last.
I don't the physical bit and I know
Red Bull was like, ah, the, and maybe
that wasn't the past was a priority
and, and it still don't get me long.
You still want players who are
quick and who endurance and, but
they, if they haven't got the
brain then it doesn't matter.
It genuinely doesn't matter.
They have to understand when to, you
know how to use it, you know, when
to run and those types of things.
So again, as we evolve, we need
players who do the work have intensity
of course, but can they make the
decision consistently, right?
The players who value the ball.
And I always say, I tell my son this,
I say, it's very easy to spot the
good players and the bad players.
The good players are the ones
who don't give the ball way much.
And the bad players that give the ones
that give the ball way all the time.
And that's honestly, it's, and it's, and I
know it seems really basic and simple and
like, oh, well you gotta make mistakes.
But they keep making
mistakes all the time.
And the same mistakes.
They're just not good.
They're just not good players.
Matt: Right.
Sean: And that's, that's okay play.
I mean, you played a different
level and that's okay as well.
Um, but that's what our
level, that's what we look at.
And again, the ball has
to be your best friend.
So cheat it that way.
Liron: Okay, so I, I didn't
do a Good job, scouting.
I get it?
I already saw five mistakes I made.
in the past.
Okay.
No big deal.
This is what I'm, I'm, I, I,
I'm not pretending to teach.
I'm here to
learn.
Sean: by the way, I'm
not saying I'm right.
This is what we think.
I never said I was correct here, by
the way, but it's what we believe and
it's, again, I guess one of the things
that getting old is you just, you learn
through experience and you learn through
mistakes and you, and you learn maybe
what you just more case studies of who
have come through and who have made
it and what they were like and why.
And so you just, that is one of the
benefits of having Yeah, I used to
say gray hair, now it's no hair.
Matt: While, while there are some world
class players, or getting to be world
class players, how close are we to.
a place where we're consistently producing
World-class players who are playing it?
I just heard this a few weeks ago, I
don't that there are a level professional,
academies, B level, profe, or not
professional academy, professional clubs,
B level professional
clubs, C level professional,
clubs, and down, I think
it was to D or E, where the
United States is
producing players who are,
playing at a and B level.
Professional clubs.
Sean: yeah, I think people have
talked about this a lot, right?
This, this generation, because
they're playing at some of
the biggest clubs, right?
Um, I mean for me, I think
Christian Pelosi is world class.
He's scoring goals for one of
the best clubs in the world
and a in a tough league.
And, and so I, I think
he's genuinely world class.
Um, and so, and other
players are, are playing at.
Again, champions League football.
If you're playing Champions League
football, you are, maybe you're
not a, because I think people throw
around world class maybe too much.
But, um, if you're consistently producing
goals and things, then you are, I mean,
again, for me, Christian is, but there's
some exciting young players coming
through, and again, the youth national
teams and what we see, and, but there's
been players in the past like that, right?
With, with Landon Donovan certainly,
and certain players that have done well.
But I, I think because again, only 25
years ago, and I, and I mean this, I mean,
it was, there was no professionalism.
There really wasn't, even the professional
clubs weren't professional, at least
from an academy stand, but there
wasn't, I mean, I remember lived in
an hour away from Philly, so even to
watch a Premier League game, I think
we had to get a train into Philly to
find an Irish bar to watch a game.
Do you know what I mean?
So it's only 25 years ago.
And, and I think maybe it is the,
the, the world we live in where
everybody wants instant gratification.
They want it now.
Like it has to be No, it,
'cause what, guess what?
We're getting better and we're evolving.
So is the other countries.
And so they're doing things
differently and they're ripping it up.
Germany, Germany just ripped up what
they were doing in youth development and
trying something different and, and so I
just think, I think we have to be really
honestly celebrate how far we've come.
I think obviously we got Pacino now
would've, and everybody was what, five,
six games ago, calling for him to be.
Matt: I know.
It's crazy.
Liron: yeah, me
too.
Sean: And now he is,
and now he's a genius.
And now he is.
Right.
So, and, and so sports is really
fickle and people have just no
patience and, and, and short memories.
And, and so I just think we have to be
really patient with these young players.
There's a lot of exciting young
players that again, and it's,
it's a social media thing.
We just hype them up and we, we haven't
learned from the Fred Adu thing.
And, and, and we just hype our, we hype
our players up far too much over here,
far with more than anybody, honestly.
And, and I just don't see
the same thing happening.
And maybe in some of the European
countries where they're allowed to
develop and come through, and even,
there's a lad, the 17-year-old that
came through for Byron, who scored
a few goal I'd never heard of him.
And then all of a sudden he scored four
or five goals for by, and he goes, oh
yeah, he is a top young player, but he
wasn't hyped up as the next best thing.
And he is this, he is a
savior and blah, blah, blah.
So I, I, I think we, I think sometimes
we're, we're our own worst critics when we
don't need to be, and we're our own worst.
Everything's so great, are so bad when
we just need to stay in the middle
and be calm and, and take our time.
Liron: we had, we had Ben
Olson here, um, and he was talking
about kind of the, him starting
and the start of the league and
he, he told this wonderful
story about, uh, playing it kind
of,
empty stadiums and about it.
It's a
little bit of what you're saying
about how much development and things
have progressed so much, but if you
actually look at the numbers of.
Americans are, are playing abroad
at, at high level numbers have
not increased in that sense.
And he said something that you said,
which is very interesting, is that
we're not the only ones developing, the
outside world is developing as well.
is Europe, the European kind of hub
teaching you guys, is that kind of the
leading front for the DNA of Red Bulls or
is there an American Red Bulls identity
Sean: Yeah.
Um, it's interesting, Ben, uh,
he's a Delco alumni as well, so
big shout out to Ben, uh, Olson.
Um, so, but, um, one of the factors also
before I answer your question, is how
much stronger our leagues become here.
And so the young players, you know, they,
they're here and it's a look at Berhalter
playing in Vancouver for an example.
It was a top, top young midfielder.
I think Jordan Morris went to Middlesboro.
So there's good players here and
can stay here and, and so that's
not a bad thing and can go over.
We had John Tolkin leave
when he was 21, 22.
He's played, think he
played over a hundred games.
And so to play over a hundred
games in MLS to prepare you for
Europe, I think maybe that's where
sometimes they wanna go too early.
I wanna go to Europe.
Like you have no idea how difficult
it is to go and stay in Europe.
They've no idea.
Like you have to be better
than everybody else.
It's, it's ridiculously challenging.
You're a long way from the home
and, and it's just the idea.
And they love the idea,
these young players.
And then it's vastly
different when you get there.
'cause again, there's players who
are as good if not better than you
in your position when you go there
and, and how do you handle that?
And, and, and so.
think there's a lot of players.
I would say maybe it's not on numbers,
but I think there's players playing at a
higher level playing week in, week out at
a higher level than it's been in the past.
I would say that, um, and then when you
talk about Red Bull, New York versus
the re bull ecosystem, I think listen,
we, we have some non-negotiables, right?
We are Red Bull.
We will never not want to, to,
to press and have high energy.
We're an energy drink and,
and that's who we are.
I always laugh about it, say,
listen, we're not FC Xanax, we're not
trying to pass people to death here.
We're not trying to boat.
You know what I mean?
So, but at the same time, we evolve and
we have to be better and, and so, but we
we're so close with the other teams and.
They're intelligent enough to maybe
what works in in New York doesn't
work in Sao Paulo or brag andino,
that's maybe different than Leipzig.
So there's nuances that can be
different and there's non-negotiables
that, that we want to see.
And like I said, it's evolving and
changing with, with Klau having come
on board and obviously, uh, Mario Gomez
there and, and now, um, Schu as well,
who's, um, was Thomas Tuchel assistant.
So you had these great minds and these
people who have experienced a, a football
at a level that we could only dream of.
Um, and we're getting the benefit
of that and, and how we're
looking at players and how we're
implementing coaching methodologies.
And so.
It's, it's exciting and it's, it's,
it's changing because the football,
football for me is still entertainment.
We go there to any sport
and event to be entertained.
The result is great.
You wanna win, of course, don't get me
wrong, but you wanna be entertained.
And, and that's goal scoring
opportunities that's in around the box.
And that's, you know, the more,
the more of them there are, the
more entertaining the game is.
That's just our belief on it.
And that's our, you know what I mean?
We, if, if there's a 70 passes and,
and you haven't created a chance,
we just feel that's boring football.
Right?
That's, and again, it
doesn't make us right.
It doesn't make us right.
That's just our philosophy on it.
But if we can, if it, you can
do it in one, two passes burnt.
If it requires 10, 12 burnt,
it requires 70, it's, it's na
Matt: Not very efficient.
Uh, what, um, what, what, what, uh.
When you, when you look across the Red
Bull portfolio of the, and take a U
15, take the U 15 teams in Sao Paulo,
in Leipzig and then take New York.
How, how similar are the player profiles?
How similar
is the level Are you assessing
players against just players
in New York Are you looking at
players and how they're comparing?
In Europe and in Sao Paulo also.
Sean: Yeah, no, it's, it's a great
question and it's something that's, it's
again, really, I, it's much improved.
Um.
The tournaments have been alluded to
earlier, the tournaments have been burned.
So we're under sixteens, and I think
under sixteens a better age to compare
a little bit through their growth spurt.
They're a little bit older,
it's a little bit more like the
player they may be going to be.
So we go to every August in Salzburg,
and, and this past August, our team got
to the final and we lost to brag Andino.
But clubs are there like
Liverpool, Benfica, and der.
And so our teams can compete, uh, to
a certain point with all these teams.
Um, profiles maybe are different.
Even cer certainly some style of play
in regards to, you know, transition.
Salzburg are unbelievable in transition.
They, they're just so
efficient in how they play.
Um, whereas Leipzig may be a bit more
possession orientated ball, but they're
still, you know, and then what's
funny is the last three years, the re
bull Tino, they just come and win it.
Uh, they've won the last three years.
They beat us in the final and they
just, they have a. A competitiveness
and a desire and a hunger and an
uh, just an unwillingness to lose.
Like they just, they, and
that, that's just something
different than I've ever seen.
And we've, we've kind of seen it in
some of the tournaments where Flamengo
and Palms will come to the generation
Aidas Cup in, they're just different.
Like the, the way the Brazilian
players have just, they come from,
you know, a lot of 'em have come
from really tough situations.
So they have a hunger that our players,
not all of them, but most of 'em,
stepping out of cyber trucks and
range rovers just can't understand,
Matt: Uh,
you know
Sean: I mean?
And there's,
that's just the reality of it.
That's just the reality of it.
And certain they just will do spit grab.
You do whatever it takes.
Just, it's just different.
And our, our players need
to be exposed to that.
That's what
Liron: you, can you teach that
Can you, can you teach that?
Sean: Teach again, I think you
can teach players that, again,
compete that you're in a training
environment is, is is critical, right?
Competition, every activity matters.
You can teach it.
Absolutely.
I mean, again, not every player in
the world comes from tough conditions.
Players come from, you know, well good,
supportive families and that, that's
not a deterrent, don't get me wrong.
But we take our players to
these tournaments to answer your
question is to see something
different that they never see.
And we go to Brazil for that.
We go to different tournaments to that
where they just, it's just different.
And it's a different culture, a
different experience, different food.
So all of these experiences are invaluable
for our players and they get to see it.
Does, does it spark something
in one or two players that
they take it to another level?
Does it spark something in our coaches
where they can take something from it?
And, and how do they approach games
and how can they 'cause these, these
teams come to win the tournament.
They don't come to
compete in the tournament.
They don't come to
participate in the tournament.
They come to win the tournament.
And that's, uh, that's.
That's developing a winning mentality.
And, and I'd say sometimes maybe we're,
we are performance based, but we, I
think one of the next steps is can,
can we teach our teams how to win?
Right?
We have a lot of good youth
national teams and we'd never get
over that hurdle or can we teach?
It's always
something in this and that.
And so it matters.
Winning matters with it.
It matters.
And especially as they get older,
can you have the little, can you
be better in the big moments?
And we've definitely found, again,
we got to final all of that, but you
could have the same XG and lose 4-0.
'cause they're just listen their moments
and our, it could, it's something like
that is invaluable for our teams to
experience and our players to experience.
it's also we're, uh, again,
in the infancy stages of this
sport even being introduced.
It's still what, the fourth, fifth,
uh, and so, whereas Brazil, and
so it's, it's, it's not a sport.
It's life, it's culture.
It's
DNA.
And so I've always said this again,
I've been here 25 years and some of
the players I've coached are now have
been coaches for me and have children.
And it takes that generational
change to, for that, that household
to become a football household.
And then it becomes, you know what I mean?
Are they watching it more?
Is that on the TV more than another sport?
So it just takes the time.
It just takes time.
And again, we're, we can't be naive
enough to think that we're because of
the same size and because, uh, I think
somebody, if that's the case, then,
uh, I think they did the, was is it,
is it India or is it like they did
the best in sports in the whole world?
Or is it China?
They'd be the best at every sport?
It's just on a numbers game.
It's how many people's participating Is
the, is it part of their everyday life?
Is it part of, does it matter
as much for them or is it
just something we're playing?
Is it something we're participating in?
And that's the majority of people in
this country right now, they're just
participating in a sport versus I'm
trying to become a professional 'cause
I need it, my family needs and, and
I'm gonna knock everybody outta my
way to, to, to take that next step.
And it's just culturally different and
and we have to, we can't change it.
Matt: probably more, more
Liron: right.
How,
could
you explain like Croatia or uh,
or uh, Denmark or, or Iceland or
Norway right now for that matter?
Just these very small.
uh, pop, Very small population
But in percentages, we're talking
just world class producing, world
class talent like a factory.
Sean: and, and it's coaches.
So I'm from Ireland.
I heard a stat was we had, I think we
say let's pretend it was 10 full-time
staff coaching academies in Ireland and
Croatia had 80 and with the same size.
So that's what they've invested in
full-time coaches, development facilities.
And so it's just, it, it just changes.
Right.
Halen's dad was a premier league player,
right.
So there's there, there's
that as there's that as well.
So it, it just, there's
different variables with it,
but there's reasons for sure.
And it comes back to people, investment
in people working with, you know,
the, the contact DI is massive.
So like our eighteens have gone from
four sessions a week to seven because we
train in the morning, we do the school.
So that's more contact time, more details.
We control what they eat, we're, and
so, but we're just getting started.
And with the infancy stages, Europe
has been doing this for decades.
Other countries, continents have
been doing this for decades.
And so we've just, we're really
improving, but we've just, we're
just scratching the surface still.
But again, it's only gonna get better.
It's only be more investment.
It's only gonna be, um, more
subject matter experts more.
Uh, and again, working with these elite
academies is critical to that because
the better job that they're doing
because of the number of players, then
everybody's gonna benefit from it.
Matt: We had, uh, we had Pat,
Oma on who you probably know.
when he was, he was a DC
United Academy Director.
And he
talked about how when they would take
teams overseas, you know, U
13 U 14 U 15, they're
competing where teams come over
for the GA from, from South America from
Europe for the GA cup, they're competing.
But when you get to U 16, U 18,
he said that's where things were
starting to break down a little
bit and you could see the gap.
in the quality.
And He attributed mostly to culture.
And you were just alluding
to it where Football is life.
Right?
And these kids like the amount of hours
that they watch the game study, the
game their local team, their the, the
bigger team, whether you're in Spain.
So the example he used was like, you,
you watch your local team in Mala,
you watch Malaga play, then you watch
Al Madrid play later in the evening.
And then in between you're outside
playing in the parks or playing in
the streets or whatever it may be, He
said, where American kids have so many
more distractions, and so many other
sports that they're involved with,
that those hours start to catch up to
you.
Or car catch up to them.
And that's what a, a large part of
the gap was, was, was, was related to,
Sean: It's, it's always
an interesting one.
So for me, again, having lived
it, so in Ireland and UK we
finished high school at 16.
So we then go on to do our profession.
So if you want to go to university,
you'll do two more years of education
in your high school and you'll go
to university, you're gonna be a, an
electrician, you'll go get your trade.
My dad was a brick
layer, so you go do that.
If you wanna be a footballer, you go
and live, you go with a re, you live
in residency, you're eating, living,
breathing it for the next two years to
try and take that next step as a pro.
So here, they're still in high school.
They're still two years.
So they, that's, that's where the
gap happens for me, having lived
it and having seen it, and that's
where we're trying to close that gap.
The second team in the MLS next pro has
been massive because then a lot of clubs
now are providing the school for the
players and it's just more contact time.
You can do more with them.
Position specific gym work, video work.
And again, we're, we're
starting to do stuff that other
clubs have done for decades.
Other countries, sorry,
have done for decades.
So, so that's one of the things that
they just have more contact time and
they have more, they just 'cause up
till 16, their kids are still in school.
They're not full-time either.
They're probably training
four times a week.
Like the UK did like a release
day thing to try and get more
contact time on a Wednesday.
And so everybody's just trying to get a
bit more, and it goes back to the, again,
the more we can work on it and the, and
the more we can help the players and
there's just gonna be more better players.
And so, but I don't know how
many other players have, or how
many clubs have what we have.
I know most are trying to take that.
Right.
Um, that, that's, that's
the biggest gap for me.
And also the EU have a massive competitive
advantage where once they're 16,
they can move within the countries.
So I mean, Salzburg for example, at 16
get Szoboszlai, they get, uh, Benji,
SESCO, they get all the best, you know,
Hungarian, Slovenia and Haaland comes
maybe slightly later, but they get so,
and, and so that's the benefit they have.
They can just start picking
these clubs and start picking
the best players in the eu.
And so they just go from being a 16,
I don't wanna say local, regional,
maybe national team, to being like
some of the best kids in Europe.
And so, and they just go,
they just skyrocket and their
team gets so much better.
And our teams basically stay the same.
Liron: Let's,
Let's pivot a little bit to being a dad.
you're a dad.
you're
also a director of, uh, an academy,
so you're looking at it both as a, on
the administrative professional level.
So You grew up in a soccer
family and as an emotional level,
when You look at
the US system put Red Bulls aside
is there something that
frustrates you or surprises you.
Is there just something that, that
is very kind of unique American.
in, in your point of view?
Sean: Um, yeah, I mean, listen, you can
talk about, again, the, the cost, right?
Which is significant, which
you gentlemen know, right?
To pay and, and what it is.
But if you want to get some, these coaches
need paid if they're gonna be full time
and directors, so that goes along with it.
Uh, what I do think, and I I read an
article on it maybe even yesterday,
is we've become so tournament hungry.
It's unbelievable.
We spend so much money on going
to tournaments, which is not
just a tournament and fly.
And it's, it's funny, I look at it and
I'm going, especially where we are, we,
we don't need to go anywhere until, and,
and I'm not even saying until a certain
age, I'm saying until you're a certain
level, you don't need to go anywhere.
There's enough college showcases
in the region, there's enough, but
it's just turn people have come.
So tournament happy and it generates a
lot of revenue, obviously, but it just,
Liron: And when you say
people, You mean the parents?
the clubs, the, the
business behind it.
Sean: yeah, I mean, it just, it's
almost become the norm, I would say.
And again, there's, as they get
older now, I've lived it, right.
I've, I've coached in ECNL and I've
coached in other ones, and then you've got
tournaments you've got, and they're always
in these beautiful places, so they're
expensive to get to and, and, and you
have to go at certain times of the year.
And then there's regional events.
It's just, it's just nonstop.
So it becomes, yeah, you spending 20 grand
a year probably as a, as a parent to, to,
to put your kid through soccer, which is
ex it's just seems, yeah, I don't know.
It just seems not sustainable
for a lot of families.
it, I think they become
just tournament happy.
It seems like there's more tournaments
than there are league games.
And again, we talk about our region,
especially we, we agree with,
we never need to get on a plane.
We never need to get on a plane to,
to have to find good competition.
I joke with my wife, we're gonna go to
a tournament and we can drive 30 minutes
every direction and get beat if we want.
We don't need to go
somewhere else and get beat.
You
Matt: exactly.
No, it's, exactly right.
It is exactly right.
Uh,
Liron: are you, Are you
Um, I, I'm a legendary,
uh, sideline coach.
Uh, probably would say people really just,
they come from.
far and, and near to hear
my advice on the sidelines.
Are
you?
Yeah.
Yeah.
I'll, I'll invite you sometimes, but
how I, how are you?
on the Sideline,
Sean: I'm the quietest person
on every sideline I'm on
because again, why?
What, why They have a coach.
They don't need another coach.
They don't, they certainly
don't need 18 other coaches or
22 if both parents are talking.
And, um, again, it, it is funny 'cause
I haven't done it for a while, but
being on the sideline is, my wife hates
me for this, but I don't say anything.
And some of these kids are young and,
so when I'm on the other sideline and
it's just, and some of it's just, it's
comical sometimes, but I'm just like,
just, just when they do something great
cheer, they do something that's not great,
then can we, you know, I just have, I,
I don't, maybe I just have perspective.
'cause the level of players I'm
fortunate enough to watch every day,
but it's just, again, let them have fun
and play and just honestly just stop.
Like, stop I can see why
kids don't play anymore.
I was like, it's just unenjoyable.
If somebody's shouting at them, I can
only imagine what the car ride home is.
And, and that's just, I mean,
I'm talking every, and I've seen
it with teams that I've coached.
I've seen it with clubs and as
directors, um, with Delco and
other clubs and stuff like that.
And you're just ruining it for
your kid like you, honestly.
And it was the biggest
advice I could give.
And, and again, I'm a parent of, a soccer
player is on there and I don't say a word.
Not one thing to a player.
I don't say a thing to a
referee because it's not my job.
I'm a parent and I'm, I'm there to
support my son, and he plays great, great.
If he doesn't play great, that's normal.
That's what's supposed to happen.
And so, I don't know, it's just
perspective and, and sometimes I
feel that they're maybe trying to
live through their kids a little bit.
again, this is, this is every
team we've played against,
and it's, you guys know this.
It's every sideline in the country.
It's this, it's, it's every single
sideline in the country where it's Yeah,
we're, yeah, everybody's an expert.
And you know, some of 'em have been
kicked the ball and it's like, oh, great.
You're an expert now.
It's a good time to pick it up.
All done.
Matt: How, um, I'm curious,
How does your son engage?
with you after a match?
Before a match?
Sean: I'm dad.
I'm, again, it's funny.
And I, I, I tell him all the time,
his buddy, as soon as he, because
we try to, uh, baseball and he,
he loves, he loves flag football.
He thinks he's the best in
the world, and that's great.
So he does other stuff.
And I was like, this, I, I do this
for a living, and that's great, but
it doesn't mean you have to do it.
And, but we love watching you play
and whatever level it is you wanna
play closer to home, no problem.
Great.
Then you, we need to drive you there.
No problem.
Great.
But it's, uh, and like, so the,
the games are videoed, right?
And my wife's like, you should
watch, you can kill me by the way.
You should watch a videos with 'em.
I'm like.
We're watching the video.
He doesn't wanna watch the video.
I can see he doesn't wanna watch the
video, so now I don't wanna watch
the video and I'm going like this.
No.
So I don't like, no, like you,
it's it's genuinely, and I'm,
and I'm like, why, why are we,
why are we reliving something?
He forgot about it.
The time that the whistle went.
And so I think we, we
just tend to do stuff.
And it's funny now 'cause there's
about 10 cameras on the sidelines.
Everybody's got their own
camera these days, I think.
And it's genuinely, I
gotta giggle at that.
And I know people like to do it.
And, and, and, but again, for me, it's
like if a kid wants to do it and the kid
wants to watch it, then he'll watch it.
If the kid wants to go out and
kick a ball on his days, he's
not training, he'll go and do it.
If he ask me to come play
with him, no problem.
I've a couple of times like,
we'd gone, we try to train a
little done, do a little bit.
And as soon as I said one thing that
sounded like coaching one thing I, it
did, it was, it was, so we ended up
playing crossbar, you know, we'll hit
crossbar and we'll have a run around.
And, and so I've, I've just learned that.
And if he gets older and he wants to do
it a bit more and he gets more maturity
and he asks something, no problem.
I'll help you, I'll give you my,
um, you know, just what, what
I've experienced, what I've seen.
And, but genuinely it's,
and again, just playing.
Have fun with him.
And, and if he want, if he wants to
ask me something on it, and if, but
I'll give him little things where,
buddy, if you wanna be a good player,
don't give the ball away a lot.
You give the ball away a lot.
You probably haven't played well.
And again, I'll keep going back to that
'cause that, that involves everything.
It involves touch, it involves
scanning, it involves everything.
So, yeah, just give yourself,
you think you played well there.
I mean, there's times where you,
oh, I think I played great today.
And you're going, oh, you really
didn't, but who will you tell me didn't?
Yeah.
I thought you're great too.
Liron: Let's do, some of the parents
questions, You wanna do a couple?
Sean: uh absolutely.
Yeah, no problem.
Liron: because, uh, me and my, my big
mouth, I've told some that, uh, you'll
be a guest in my living room tonight.
So, uh, we got a, a bunch of
questions and Matt and I try
to filter 'em out a little bit.
I'm gonna read it word for word, parents
ask, uh, why red Bulls do not
keep one organic team together and
allow them to develop as a unit
There is constant movements
across age groups.
Why prioritize individual
progression so strongly?
Does this movement interrupt team
chemistry or collective development?
Sean: it's a good question.
So We simultaneously develop the
players we have in our academy whilst
always looking for better players.
That's just our job.
Our job is to bring the best
players in and we love continuity.
We love keeping players, and there's
been lots of good examples that have
players who have come through a lot of
the age groups, but there's also been a
lot of good examples that have players
that have come at 15 and 16 and 17.
So for various reasons.
So we have to be open to both.
Um, we do use this, uh, individuals
make debuts teams don't.
Uh, our job is to not develop great teams.
Our job is to develop individuals
who can play, uh, at the stadium
at Sports Illustrated Stadium.
So, and hopefully one day, like
Tyler Adams, uh, played Red
Bull Arena and Leipzig and,
and Captain is, is is country.
So that is, again, that's our purpose.
That's our, we, we, we've clarity on that.
Um, and we understand that there's
players that were there and move
out, that they're not gonna be
happy about it, that's, that's okay.
We don't get it right all the time.
We're not saying we do.
Um, but we always have to.
We have to be true to our everyday
training environment, which
means best with best and we'll
always look to improve squads.
Some squads need a couple of
jigsaw puzzles to complete it.
Sometimes they need an overhaul.
That's just the nature of the business
and we'll continue to do that.
Matt: All right.
My question,
uh, thanks for the softball
question here, Liron.
Uh.
It, it a bold but common
one.
Apparently, according to
Liron's three friends, some
of the, some of the strongest
players
in the region have passed through
your pre academy or academy
and then left
to come back and compete against Red Bull.
How do talented players slip slip through
the cracks, what do you attribute that to?
Sean: Uh, I'll start by saying we
don't get it right all the time.
We're, we're not naive enough or
arrogant enough to think we get it.
We do get it wrong.
Um, we try and make the best decision
at that time based on the information,
but we're also very aware that
players develop at different stages.
They might not have been the best player
at 10 or 11 or 12 when we released them.
They might not have been.
It's our job to try and horizon, scan
and see what they're going to be.
But that's, that's really,
really, really difficult.
And there's been numerous loads of
occasions where players have come played
against us and, and been fantastic.
And guess what?
We don't go, oh no, that's, we go burnt.
we go fantastic.
You know what that means?
It was the right move and the
players thrived and now he's in
that environment and he is doing
great and we have to celebrate.
That's brilliant.
And, and then maybe there's, maybe
there's, there's 100% players.
We tried, we brought back in or even tried
to brag, bring back in that were like,
nah, you didn't want me then you don't.
Okay.
No problem.
No problem.
It's it, but that's youth development.
And again, we're professional players.
Paul Pogba was let go at 16 inning
and 90 bottom for a hundred million.
It happens all the time.
It happens all the time everywhere.
So we're not, you know what I mean?
We're not, but players
develop at different stages,
cognitively decision making wise.
And sometimes they just need to be
the, the, the man, the big man on
campus and be that type of player.
And that brings the best out
in them versus one of many.
And there's various reasons, uh, for that.
But that will continue to happen.
It's not slipping through the cracks
and falling through the cracks.
It will happen for various reasons.
'cause it happens everywhere
in the world, in every academy
Liron: Um, okay.
One more.
Uh, So
Sean: So
Liron: This one, another one.
So
red Bulls is a global
club with large resources.
Uh, many parents ask why
we don't see more former
professional.
players as coaches in the academy.
Is this more common across
Europe and academies?
Is this a philosophy,
choice, licensing structural or just
a decision to have American coaches?
Sean: Uh, it's a good, it's
a really good question.
We had a meeting yesterday with MLS,
which is about player engagement
and players coming through.
So we, we have former players
working within the club.
Our sporting director, Julian De Gman,
is a former professional player, uh,
in Europe with Canada and, and, and
Captain Canada and played in Toronto.
Obviously, Michael Bradley's a
former player on our second team.
Um, our head of Pro Pathway,
tiger Fitzpatrick is a
former player in the league.
Our under 14 coach London Woodbury
is a former player in the league.
So it's really advantageous
for us to try and bring former
professionals into our environment
because they've been in the arena.
They've, they've, they've felt
it, they've smelted, they've gone
through the, the highs, lows and the
difference experiences that these
young players are going through.
So, and it's not just
in those coaching areas.
It could be in an executive area, it
could potentially be scouting, analyst,
athletic trainer, whatever it may be.
I think the league are doing a, are
really doing a good job of trying to
get more pros prepared for what's after
when you're done, when you're playing.
Um, but if you look at
the first team level.
The last, I mean, Jesse Marsh
was a former player, right?
And he, he coached the Red
Liron: first team.
Of course, of
Sean: the first team.
And there's a lot of, I think, I think
we all understand at the first team
level, but I think even at the second
team level now, they're trying to get
as many former pros into those second
teams to learn their trade a bit more.
Obviously.
And again, for us it's, you talk about
somebody like Michael Bradley that's come
in and been unbelievable from day one,
and he is, he's a, he's a son of a coach.
That helps, again, when we talk about
experience and your background and,
and your lived experiences and what
environment you're in every day.
So, um, and of course, um, you know.
That it doesn't get more successful than
winning a championship with a young team
and, and kind of implementing the style
of play that he did was exceptional.
And another example of why
we need more, more of those
players coming into the game.
But some of 'em don't want
to, they don't want to coach.
They go to TV or they're
going into different things.
So no problem.
But I think it, to the question,
it's really, really important.
We continue to do that
and, and try and find more.
Matt: I'm really excited for
Michael Bradley to see his,
about his coaching career.
One of my favorite US
men's national team players
Sean: Yeah.
And I'm lucky enough, fortunate
enough to obviously get to
kind of, you know, talk to him.
And then the, the most impressive thing
given all his career and everything
he's done is, is just how humble the
guy is and, and, and what a great human
being, which is given what he is done,
um, says a lot about the, the person.
Matt: and his family
for sure.
Sean: Yeah.
Liron: That's the last, uh,
one from parents, uh, is
about your residency program.
And again, there were just
dozens and we'll do it And again.
Hopefully we haven't embarrassed you too.
much.
So, um, if the, if the academy builds
a residency or dorm model, does that
reduce the opportunity for local kids?
Does it tilt the system towards
out state players who can take
advantage of housing and schooling,
or how do you balance that identity?
in the area?
Sean: Yeah, so in my previous job at
Bars Academy, it was a massive residency.
It's where Real Salt Lake used to have
their academy and then when they built
their facilities in Utah, they went there
and there was different levels of teams.
There's probably 150 residents and they
all came from all over the country.
But we, when our, and our new
facility initially was gonna be
some, some dorms and things, but.
Uh, I alluded to it earlier, we've
just such a strong player pool
locally and the ones that have
come through are, are local boys.
If you look at all the boys that
have come through, most of the
majority of 'em are local boys.
So we have a home state program,
which is families that, we have
eight players currently in it.
So our approach is adding little final
pieces of the jigsaw versus building one.
You know what I mean?
From scratch and, and
just going everywhere.
We're just fortunate.
Other parts of the country probably
need to have a more comprehensive
residency program just 'cause
maybe the player pool locally
isn't as strong population density,
diversity, what, whatever it may be.
I, I say it all the time.
We're just so lucky and so fortunate
that we have just so many good players
and we're always gonna have that.
It's gonna be more and more so
we have a different approach.
We, we want.
Players from the new,
New York, New Jersey.
I mean, obviously you got players
from, you know, with even Pennsylvania,
Connecticut that can get there.
So, um, we want them coming through.
And if you look at the history of
Red Bulls, of those young players
coming through from, yeah, again,
Tyler, Matt, you know, Sean Davis,
Alex Mule, Connor Lade I mean,
just the list just keeps going.
So these are all local boys, It
just matters more, just means more,
you know, they just, and, and if, I
would like to think that the fan base
would, would feel that way as well.
It's one of them.
You know what I mean?
And so, but it's important.
But at the same time, when I took the job
at Red Bull, one of the first things I did
was tell my sporting director, we need to
bring in Caden Clark from Barca Academy.
He was in Minnesota.
And luckily that turned out well.
So, uh, and he, he did fantastic there.
And so, and so.
You still need those pieces, is my point.
And you still, you can't ignore the
other players in the other areas.
Um, you know, it'd be, yeah.
Just negligent of us.
But we, we would, we would never take
that away from our local players.
They're the ones we focus on the most
and they're 99% of our, our player pool.
Matt: And I think, and I think we're
seeing it, I think we're seeing, or
at least we're hearing that a lot
of the clubs, whether it be Columbus
Orlando, uh, Austin, but where they're
pulling kids out of the northeast
region, because of the the, the depth of
talent, and the quality of talent, Um,
Sean: um,
Matt: because, because they can,
and because players want opportunities
and they may not have it in this
region because of how competitive
it is, or they haven't been
identified
Sean: It's been one of the best, uh,
evolutions of the kind of protection
rights and all this is that more
players can now have more opportunities.
And that's what it's all about.
And so we're, again, we do have
just depths and there's us Philly,
N-Y-C-F-C, but there's still really,
really, really good players that
could become pros and we'll become
pros that have not come through
our clubs, um, for various reasons.
So it is great and there's a large number
of players from our region that are
at other academies across the country.
And again, that has to be celebrated.
That's success.
That's the, the great, that's the great
work that Elite Academies are doing.
Um, and so, yeah, again, and I think
it's only gonna go one direction.
There's just gonna be more and more
Liron: Sean,
who, what
What, a, what a pleasure.
Uh, this has been, uh,
incredibly informative, important.
I know there's gonna be
a giant follow up to this
uh, in a few months from us.
Uh, and I will, uh, knock on your door
one more time,
Um, thank you for
spending time with us today.
Matt: Yeah.
Thank you so
Sean: Honest, honestly.
Honestly.
My pleasure.
And again, uh, we appreciate you
guys continued support of the club
and yeah, listen, we're not perfect.
We don't pretend to be, but we're, we
think we're doing a good job and we're,
we're only gonna try and get better and
yeah, more, more local boys becoming pros
is what we're trying to, trying to do.
And, uh, that, that, that involves the
elite clubs and everybody around us.
So I think we have our mentality
of we're all in this together
versus against each other.
I think we'll, we'll,
we'll get there quicker.
Liron: And as established,
if you need, uh, someone with
a professional eye to spot.
who's gonna be a pro or not, you can reach
me now.
So don't be, don't be a stranger.
Yeah.
See,
Sean: I've
Matt: he's, he's, the
good news is he's free.
Liron: I got a lot of time
on my hands, as you can see.
Sean: Thanks guys.
Have a good
Liron: Thank you so much.
Thanks.
Wow.
Thank you, Sean.
That was a clear slap in the face helpful.
I'm not going to be an academy director.
Yeah, I mean, if you're in the grind now as we speak, here's the takeaway.
Stop chasing the perfect label, chase the right fit, the right environment.
It's hard to recognize in the place where your kid is actually
developing and actually playing.
Yeah, I
mean, and here's one of that was a good kick in the gut for me, a good thing I got a big one is that
you got to be an expert in patience.
The system pushes family,
me, to rush, overreact, and treat to
rush, overreact every weekend.
Yeah,
It's not.
And if this episode helped you,
if this episode helped you, send it to a parent who needs it.
I know there's many of them.
So share it with your team chat, your newsletter, whatever you can do to spread the word around.
We'll see you next time.
Bye, Matt.