Ranked is RIGGED, Supports Need NERFS, and EOMM is BACK? ft Lyte & Coach Cuffy

We are joined by pro coach Cuffy and pro player Lyte to talk about balance, ranked and the future of Marvel Rivals

What is Clear Comms Podcast?

A Marvel Rivals Podcast hosted by Coach Mills and CaptainCoach, two creator and educators for Marvel Rivals. We discuss all things Rivals including META, balance and the future of development. We will often debate controversial topics that surround the game and plan to bring on many exciting guests from pros to devs!!!

Coach Mills (00:00.724)
What's up guys and welcome to a brand new clear comms episode today. We're joined by first off returning guest light. Welcome back. It's been, it's been, you know, the comments been asking for you. They've been really wanting to hear what you have to say. Yeah. Yeah. And then, then we also are introducing new guests, coach coffee. What's up coach? How you doing? Yeah. Yeah. We've been wanting you on for a while. Yeah. but,

Lyte (00:11.454)
Yeah, shout out you guys. Shout out to the boys. It's good to be back.

Captain Coach (00:13.966)
Well...

Cuffy (00:22.783)
I'm good, I'm good. I'm glad I'm finally on this show.

Captain Coach (00:26.478)
Hey, let's go, let's go, welcome.

Coach Mills (00:30.75)
But you and I have known each other for a long time, for those of the new listeners that are kind of first hearing about you, can you briefly describe like what you're all about? What do you do? Tell the people.

Cuffy (00:44.019)
Yeah, so I'm more of a coach than I am player. Very rarely stream, but for me, my page is mainly around TikTok stuff. I'm a professional coach. I've coached Faze, Nightmare, I've coached Crownfall at the moment. So a bunch of teams that have been competing in Ignite and stuff. And essentially I just document it all on TikTok. So that's how people know me, I guess.

Captain Coach (01:13.454)
That's really cool. What would you say is the most important attribute for a coach to have? And got a follow up question to that, but curiously, let's see what you say for that first. I have coach in my name.

Cuffy (01:25.527)
Yeah, would say adaptability. Like every team environment is different, but at the same time, coaches tend to have their own strengths. So it's about sticking to kind of the format that you know works well for yourself, but also adapting it to other team environments because that's a very challenging part. People are different.

Captain Coach (01:51.062)
Yeah. It's interesting you say that, because with how quick the patch cycle is for Marvel Rivals, adaptability for a coach seems like the clear number one trait that you would need to have, because there's just constant changes happening to the game. So I guess my next question would be, how do you prepare people and get them on board with playing the things that are good? Is it more of like a motivation thing, or is it just saying, like, here, this is what's good. You play it? Because the game changes so fast, right?

Cuffy (02:16.983)
Yeah.

yeah yeah no for sure for me personally and i think this differs between coaches i'd like to play off the the strengths of my actual roster so for me like i've been known to run a lot of different dive comps in in eu especially the super aggressive like full dive the rocket jeff my team was the first team to run that in our region i know that but

even though I like that style of play, I'm not gonna force my flex dps to play a character like Spider-Man. Objectively good in the comp, but it doesn't make sense if that's just not in your flex dps's skillset. Do you see what I mean? That's what I mean when I say I'm creating that balance.

Coach Mills (03:04.935)
Then I wanted to ask, is there ever a point in time where, let's say you're coaching a team for a while and you say, okay, we actually need people that can play these things. And it's like, we want you to expand your hero pool to that. Or do you always just play within what the players currently know? Like, is there ever encouragement to like increase their hero pool or change or what do think?

Cuffy (03:22.316)
Yeah.

Cuffy (03:27.351)
I think you have to adapt within reason. My current team, Crownful, last minute we picked up a really top tank player called Rosa, but he's a main tank and we already had a main tank. And that was the issue that we had this Ignite balancing two shield tanks in a patch where shield tanks are kind of awful, to be honest. So it was like, was it the correct decision? You know, I mean, playing around like...

Captain Coach (03:48.014)
Hmm.

Cuffy (03:54.581)
Yes, he is one of the stronger members of the roster, but like, would it have been easier to just pick up an off-tank? We ended up playing a lot of Angela, a lot of Venom. He was able to adapt, but I don't think as a coach I was able to find the correct balance by the end of the Ignite season, if that makes sense.

Coach Mills (04:14.346)
Okay, that makes sense.

Captain Coach (04:15.694)
That's definitely interesting to talk about. Shield tanks have been viable for a while just to kick it off and get into kind of the more meta discussion. And you're saying that they're not now. I mean, I think maybe a big reason for that is the buff to a lot of the more Brawly type characters. Did you want to elaborate on that? I think for me personally, the fact that it takes Mag so long to get his ult compared to other heroes is like a big gate keeping him from being as good as he... I know, Light, last time you were on here, man, you were crashing out about Magneto.

Coach Mills (04:41.958)
Yeah, you were were you were hating on Mag. Persicso was rolling around raging. Yeah.

Lyte (04:45.6)
No bro, like... Nah, it's been like my hatred for Mag has been re-sparked recently because I've been like really hard practicing Psylocke. And anytime you're playing a 250 character into Mag it's just miserable. Like I have to be so careful. If I ever get hit by a right click I just die. Because even if he doesn't hit like the full combo, it still stunlocks me to a degree where someone else can just follow up and one shot me. So it's it's just boring to play against bro.

Captain Coach (04:47.032)
Ha ha ha ha

Captain Coach (05:14.028)
What made you want to pick up Psylocke?

Lyte (05:15.968)
It's just really important to have in my hero pool with how the meta is and like how drafts are Obviously like I'm like very known for my daredevil and I'm always gonna pick daredevil because he just like He has such a good matchup spread against DPS, but if daredevil gets banned out, Psylocke is like the next best in option So it's just kind of like a thing that I have to do, you

Captain Coach (05:39.362)
Yeah, obviously, Sila getting buffs for neutral recently. She's got basically her one shot back, right? It's pretty much on like squishy's 250. It's like pretty close.

Lyte (05:47.392)
Yeah, it's really it's like pretty reliable against 250s you still need like a dash or like Perfect spread and like some headshots if you're gonna do it to 275 But if you have the cloak team up actually you can do it like pretty consistently, but no one plays cloak and comp like actual like competitive so

Captain Coach (06:02.541)
Yeah.

I knew the answer to that question. was on rocket do the other day and I got one shot by a silo. But I just want to make sure, hear from the horse's mouth, you

Lyte (06:09.256)
Yeah,

Coach Mills (06:13.514)
That's one of the things I wanted to talk to you, Cuffee, because a lot of people won't really understand that in pro play, Cloak and Dagger is just seeing very little play and is pretty poor by the numbers. Which I don't even know if you agree with, but most people in ranked think Cloak and Dagger is the best support. They still think she's the top. So where's that disconnect coming from? Is that a disconnect that's ever gonna be closed by people in ranked and people in pro play?

Captain Coach (06:25.294)
Mmm.

Lyte (06:32.594)
she's like bent so often,

Coach Mills (06:41.194)
What's your insight to that?

Cuffy (06:43.447)
I'm so glad you asked me this because my support's here this. I have Kluge and Dagger in detail and everyone, all these AI bots in my comments were like just speaking to me like, yo, Kluge and Dagger, yeah.

Coach Mills (06:50.595)
Captain Coach (06:51.724)
Wow.

Getting the hot take early.

Lyte (06:56.576)
Cuffee, I'd like to start to interrupt you, but when you make your tier lists, what do you have in mind when you make them? Is it for ranked? Is it just in general? Is it for pro plays?

Cuffy (07:07.841)
Yeah, so... My... I like keeping it vague, but like, my perspective is... I straight up spend more time coaching and looking from an outside perspective in comparison to playing. Like, I'm nowhere near a top-ranked player anymore. Like, early seasons I was in and around the eternity mark, but now it's more lower cell and stuff like that. So I do like to think that...

being low cell my actual gameplay experience is closer to a lot of people in the comments in comparison to the pros but I do think I am heavily influenced from top top top top level because my perspective is if you guys just played like top level players you guys would have the same opinions as me or similar-ish opinions but the reason why I place cloak there is like very very low is like I think that the healbot characters that

play from main, for me it's like playing from main has gotten significantly weaker since the new update. A lot of side lane characters have become incredibly relevant and yes I agree, Terrakave is crazy, Fade is crazy, Blind is crazy, everything on that kit is crazy but Cloak and Dagger is not typically a character that gets a lot of value on these side lanes so if you just play on side lanes that cloak character, one can't build ult

you can't get big blind value. Yes, I do agree like her ults are very good, like her ults are very good, but like in terms of actual neutrals, which is the large majority of the game right now, I will always opt for characters that don't need to rely on other people being around them or drawing resources if that makes sense.

Captain Coach (08:51.15)
Yeah. Is it a case of if you're not best? Well, I guess if you're not best, you're last. If you're not best, you're last. Because I looked at a, I was looking at win rates, celestial plus, roughly around the same rank you think is like the average player experience, I think, for people taking the game seriously. Invisible woman win rate, over 50 % and she gets picked in over 60 % of games. 60. I think that's just absurd levels of disparity if you want to talk about like,

neutral game because I don't think her ult's one of the strongest ones for healers. So I mean, maybe if you use it right, yeah, you just kind of nod your head. like, yeah, is that like an example of that? Because I think people are a little high on cloak too. always kind of like, when I see her get banned, I'm like, I don't think it's really worth it. And I would much rather not have to go against an invis who can just shut down any play in the neutral than get to the ult phase where you have more of a reliable path to winning a fight, right?

Cuffy (09:43.723)
Yeah

Lyte (09:46.782)
Yeah, there's like, there's so many characters that Invis being in the lobby just immediately not like, she either shuts them down or she just instantly reduces their uptime as a character. I know all the Venom players in chat and all the Strange players in chat know exactly what I'm talking about. Like that one ability, if you're playing Venom into a good Sue and she's pulling you in your swing consistently, you're either going to die,

Captain Coach (09:57.262)
She's a gatekeeper for sure, dude.

Coach Mills (10:02.697)
Yeah.

Lyte (10:10.784)
or your uptime for how long you can stay in is drastically reduced because when you swing out she's gonna pull you and you need to have enough HP to get back to your team still without dying. it's like just by her being in the game, Venom's presence instantly goes down at least 30%, like minimum. And that's not to include that she already has like really, really good, like her left click is basically a Luna clap as like her basic ability. She can go permanent invis and bait her team. The orb is really annoying for fliers. Like she just has everything. Like it's just.

Coach Mills (10:37.77)
I'm still trying to figure out from a design perspective and this is kind of, I'm curious both of y'all's thoughts, Cuffee and Light. Why do you think they just allow her to do self-shield on herself now? Like, why did they change that as a, like, I feel like there was some amount of like, maybe positioning skill checks where you would need to position near somebody to like use the wall to like protect yourself. And now it's just like, doesn't matter where you are or what situation, you can just throw it up on yourself. You can dodge ultimates, you can-

win most engagements. So what do y'all think about that?

Captain Coach (11:05.742)
This is something we've talked a bit about before too with the talk about how we liked the sort of the having to shield and having to need to kind of move her around like a chess piece to get like the maximum amount of healing. Now she doesn't really have to do that with the shield was one of the critiques we talked about in previous episodes.

Coach Mills (11:20.722)
Yeah. Kind of oversimplifies that ability. Do you think that those kind of things are ultimately good and it's like more of a power level problem? Or do you think those things are bad and that you want those kind of individual like tendencies to an ability?

Captain Coach (11:25.815)
Yeah.

Cuffy (11:38.001)
I most support kits are stupid. that is just my answer. Like... I think it's like, incredibly dumb. Like, I really don't understand, like... They're happy to make some DPS characters incredibly difficult to get value on. But then, they're happy to give all the value in the world, or like all the...

Coach Mills (11:40.239)
Okay, okay, okay.

Captain Coach (11:40.686)
Could that put in the intro?

Lyte (11:42.186)
Retweet, retweet, retweet.

Coach Mills (11:47.676)
Yeah.

Cuffy (12:05.931)
that everything, everything to everyone, even like the Luna self-lake is like, there's just really random changes to characters that make them easier. But on top of that, they're arguably the most oppressive characters in the game, far more oppressive than any DPS outside of Elsa. I would even say that like most supports right now are in a stronger state than Phoenix, which is insane because like Phoenix is still

busted mega broken in my opinion you know i mean

Lyte (12:36.68)
Amen. Retweet. She's overshadowed by Elsa, but guys, Phoenix is still broken. She's ridiculous.

Captain Coach (12:37.4)
So is...

Coach Mills (12:37.62)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.

Coach Mills (12:45.61)
They didn't make her any weaker, they just kind of introduced something like even more busted somehow like like Now we all are afraid of that, you know, like the bigger the bigger enemy

Lyte (12:50.036)
Yeah, I know.

Captain Coach (12:55.224)
So we were talking about cloak versus InvisAlt then. You think cloak alt is not as good as Invis or better? Because I saw you made a face. I wanted to follow up on that.

Cuffy (13:06.077)
Nah, I wouldn't say that the Envy's ult is on the weaker side. I still think it's strong, especially since like the slow change, like the slow is really really good. But I still, I would still say Cloak's ult is better. The issue with Envy's is like, obviously I spoke about side lanes and main lane. Envy's can play from main, Envy's can play on a side lane. You could be on a side lane.

Captain Coach (13:16.227)
Yeah.

Cuffy (13:29.203)
Most characters in the game do not want to bump into an Envis on a side lane because the Envis will win and I don't think that that should be the case. Is all I'm saying. With no assistance, a support winning gunfights vs the entire roster? Doesn't make sense.

Captain Coach (13:34.318)
Okay, gotcha

Coach Mills (13:42.954)
Yeah, that's another thing I wanted to talk about because I feel like back in Overwatch, especially back in 6v6 Overwatch, things were kind of simple. was poke, brawl, dive. Dive had some advantages against poke and poke had some distance advantages versus brawl, but it would lose the close-range engagements. But in Rivals, it's almost like every character is a Venn diagram where like, Gene has brawl aspects and...

poke aspects, she's like life stealing and stunning. And it just doesn't really feel like the game is that simple. Maybe it never really was, but like it just feels complicated. What do you feel, and this is to you as well, like how do you feel about this kind of amalgamation? I know like you've talked about this a lot where like every, it feels like every poke character gets like some type of stun or CC or something. But well, how do you feel? How do y'all feel about this? Like.

Every character is kind of just ubiquitously good in like a multiple types of compositions and they have like, they don't have one strength. They have like a whole bunch of different strengths.

Lyte (14:43.402)
Yeah, I think like there's like this big pernicious issue of like every single gun character that is good. like Phoenix, Elsa, Namor, even Psylocke to some extent, like you could argue. Like they have lethality from every range and your options to punish them if you're not mirroring them are very limited. Like if I'm not on Daredevil and I'm playing Magic or Black Panther or...

any melee dps, I'm at a disadvantage at every state of the game. doesn't matter if I'm playing range. Obviously a gun will beat a sword from long range, but why is it in this game that the sword loses at close range as well? Like, Hela and Elsa and Jean should not have all the options that they have to deal with every single situation because it removes all of their weaknesses. Like, what is Elsa's weakness, genuinely? She doesn't have one. The only thing she doesn't have is a stun in her base kit, but she has a stun in her ult, so doesn't even matter.

Coach Mills (15:36.778)
Hey.

Lyte (15:41.898)
She's like the best DPS ult in the game. She has the best neutral in the game. Her right click with Deadpool, which there's three variations of by the way, which are all viable in certain scenarios. Just give it like, it slows you by like 80 % or something, gives her movement speed, blinds you, does a tick damage to you, and auto tracks you in an AOE and that's just one ability. it's kind of funny because I was, real quickly, I'm almost done. I was, I went to dinner.

Captain Coach (16:02.316)
Well

Lyte (16:08.041)
Two or three nights ago with my old players from ISU, because I still live in the town where the college is, and I was telling them about the new characters in Rivals, and I was telling Lethal that he would really like Elsa, because a hitscan character is just sojourned on crack. I was explaining to the abilities. I got halfway explaining the coach gun dash, and whenever I was about to explain the right click and the alt, he's like, wait, there's more? Really? There's more than that?

Captain Coach (16:32.856)
Thank you.

Lyte (16:35.36)
Overwatch players just can't believe how overloaded the kits are on Rivals, which just goes to show just how ridiculous the power creep is in this game and how these hit scans just like have options for everything, bro.

Captain Coach (16:47.342)
Would you say that the trade off for the dive heroes is, maybe you don't get to pick your fights as much, but when you do choose to fight, you're more powerful for that limited window and that's kind of, so, right. So you don't think it's like that right now. Cause I would argue it, like a what? Like a second and half parry on Daredevil. I'm gonna push back a little bit. Like, I mean, you could use that to immune the Phoenix stun, the Hellestun, or is it like not enough?

Lyte (16:58.976)
That's how it should work.

Lyte (17:09.152)
Mm-hmm.

Captain Coach (17:16.256)
skill expression there where it's just they don't give you enough time to react with the abilities coming out just they're like basically instant.

Lyte (17:21.056)
Yeah, I'm completely okay with them nerfing Daredevil, like still even more, if they nerfed all the things that he counters. I think he is like the biggest and most impactful DPS addition they've added to the game in terms of how he has like actually changed the DPS role. He's the only one that can actually contest these off angles and like hard win. Every other DPS either just like loses or it's a mirror where like it's just hella v hella or something but Daredevil like wins and handedly wins.

And that's important because it gave dive and other styles of play, like actual relevance and options of how you can play the game.

Captain Coach (17:58.188)
Got two questions. Cause I don't know the matchup. Does he win versus Tankpool?

Coach Mills (18:03.646)
No one wins versus Tankpool, but kind of, yeah. If you're by like a... Like he's not gonna straight up kill a Tankpool. Like Tankpool can typically run away, but you know.

Lyte (18:03.87)
Yeah, yeah, you just kite his aura and his bubble and then you come back.

Captain Coach (18:05.964)
Yeah?

Captain Coach (18:14.893)
Right.

Lyte (18:16.508)
It's even, it's mostly, I would say it's favorite to Daredevil because Daredevil just kites his aura and his bubble and then once he has that he just loses.

Captain Coach (18:24.75)
Sure, that makes sense. And then my next one was, another dive character that's gained not only some popularity, but win rate has just kind of stayed steady and strong after receiving some buffs to her dash, magic. Also another really high win rate hero, but doesn't seem to have the same level of pro viability, I would say. Maybe you can say it, correct me I'm wrong here, Coffee.

Coach Mills (18:25.353)
Yeah.

Captain Coach (18:52.302)
Despite having roughly the same types of stats and win rate in ranked What's the discrepancy there? Are the magic buffs like making her more meta or is it just like a design thing like it? Because I feel like for me personally like I can't win a 1v1 against daredevil as Hulk I can against magic though So I mean if you talk about that side angle thing is that like a big issue or is there something deeper with that because I find that like pretty interesting that they're both similar stat wise but No one talks about magic

Cuffy (19:19.201)
Well, yeah, like, if... I think this is a more nuanced thing, Because as you say, there are characters like Daredevil that are probably in a stronger spot in general. Obviously the pivots are like Psylocke, Star-Lord. I don't think magic is bad necessarily, but I do think there's a weird, like, thing where a lot of...

players that have been picked up just to the pro scene in general just can't play her. Like I think there are genuinely some dive or flex dps characters like a lot of lights pull for example I think that's what makes him quite unique as an actual player is he can play so many characters that the average flex dps in pro scene just cannot play and I do notice that people completely ignore certain characters despite the characters being good. Obviously now we've seen like

Heretics and Thieves and yeah, we lost playing Support Pool for example. The reason why no one played that character is yeah, cool, Tank Pool is strong. But mainly no supports can play that character. Like there are three known Support Pool characters in the world.

Coach Mills (20:30.906)
I need to, I'm missing something on that character. Why is that character good? Is it because of like the Jeff team up or like what's going on with that character?

Lyte (20:37.28)
Think of him like Brig bro, he's like just Brig. You pick him, yeah you just pick him in the context of like you want to enable a Brawl Comp and you just pick him with like a Jeff, especially Jeff because the team up as well because of like the sprinkler. But you pick like Jeff, he'll pull and like any other support really or like even White Fox and you just kind of bunker. Everyone who's in his aura gets a damage boost when you upgrade it. His ult is coming up super super consistently and when he pops a jackpot, yeah 45 seconds or 60 now I think.

Coach Mills (20:40.968)
he just rigged, okay.

Cuffy (21:02.903)
45 seconds.

Lyte (21:06.544)
Because whatever. When he pops jackpot everyone gets like 500 HP up shields and it's instant, right? Like, all you have to do is get in the aura, he pops jackpot and you get that HP and you can be outside of the aura, walk into it, get the HP and then leave again. It's like Hulk and Strange can like come back and like your team can like go back and forth in the jackpot to get that HP to keep going on. And he's really just like a brawl character honestly, like how Brig was used when she came out. Like not now of course, but...

Coach Mills (21:30.196)
So is there just like a misunderstanding, like is the reason that people are not succeeding with that character in ranked, because it's just like a misunderstanding on how to use it?

Lyte (21:38.57)
Yeah, and he's hard to play too.

Cuffy (21:39.09)
I will say, as of like the last two days I had a big loss streak but since the start of season in ranked I had 65 % win rate on heal pool most played. Like I don't know how many hours, 17 hours or something. I was averaging almost 30k healing per turn which is my highest out of every support, higher than my Invis stats, higher than my Cloak stats.

I have screenshots of me dropping 60k healing in 14 minutes, getting close to 25k damage in the same game roughly at the same time. I think that character is extremely over-tuned, over-shadowed and like I said, not a lot of people have really dabbled in support pool. Because I even played support pool in 2-2-2 and it's been completely fine. Like it's been completely fine.

Coach Mills (22:27.786)
Does he play like you talked earlier? Yeah Yeah, yeah If that character is good like I would love to be able to like because it's tank pulls just getting banned every time like Basically what I keep going through right now is like I'm only good at tank point ranked so I get to see one on tank pool and then I never get to play that fucking character again because he's always banned and then I'm just Handless so like I would love to have another character that I'm not handless on if support pool is good like that

Captain Coach (22:29.902)
I'm gonna need to go sub to this man, cause I've never seen that character win once, like I need to watch some of your college- this is news to me, bro.

Cuffy (22:32.919)
you

Coach Mills (22:56.478)
But I wanted to ask you, like, you talked about how Cloak and Dagger gets very little value on these offlanes. Does Support Pool play on these offlanes, or does he play more front to back? I'm kind of trying to just understand the types of comps he's played in.

Cuffy (23:09.863)
In organized right now, it is mainly front to back comps. But in ranked, I do not think that there's any limit. Like genuinely speaking, view DPS pool as very sword-orientated. I view tank pool as very gun-orientated. The support pool for me is the one that I've seen that is very contextual based on comp matchup and very, very, very free-flowing. But in terms of macro that has been established and developed,

It is front to back main lane, team moves 6 people from one spot to another spot. But yeah, I think people would even... I wouldn't be surprised if we see like, Jeff support pool 222 and full dive for example. Someone was probably working on that.

Coach Mills (23:54.546)
Right. That's, that's, that's in my mind, that's what made the most sense. I just didn't know if it was actually good.

Captain Coach (23:55.149)
Wow.

Captain Coach (24:00.28)
So when's the best time to use your sword on him? Is it like when you're being dove or is it to follow up with your teammates? Because I see a lot of heel pulls seem to not be able to get that part right.

Cuffy (24:11.255)
I mean like his anti-dive capability isn't bad like forcing people out isn't bad But you can say the same for like rocket into venom you could easily drop 10k damage per turn You know I mean like you can force that character out just supports the turbo and just don't do it like

Lyte (24:27.54)
Yeah.

Captain Coach (24:27.991)
Alright

Coach Mills (24:31.048)
Now I love watching your fucking damage, you've been pioneering like damage rocket or preaching damage rocket for the longest time. That's insane. I mean, can't we be dropping his ult into their backline and killing two people like instantly? that's what he's doing.

Lyte (24:37.706)
No, his gun! His gun is actually the same damage for a bullet as Punisher. Like, his gun is good. I know.

Cuffy (24:42.069)
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, no, sure.

Lyte (24:47.872)
Yeah, that's good. Yeah. Now the swords, the swords are good. You just have to like, I wouldn't advise if you were new to the character to really ever use the swords until you're like more comfortable with the kit because I've seen so many heal pulls, like even at like the highest level, we'll just run in and think they're immortal and die. Like they'll get, they'll pop the jackpot, Deadpool turn around and look at you and he's like, hey, let's lock in here, let's fucking go. And then you get all hyped up and everything, you think you're invincible and you're one shot. So like, you know.

Captain Coach (24:48.35)
Mmm, love it.

Coach Mills (25:14.639)
Hahaha

Cuffy (25:15.095)
Yeah.

Captain Coach (25:15.886)
This is more of a generic question, but since we're on the subject of playing someone who can dive who you know, it's obviously a risk Just for either of you Mainly like targeting like heel pull but any other hero really is like how do you? pick the moments To take the most risk to make a play successful like how do you balance like diving versus like is it just cool down tracking is it help like

How do you know when to dive on a character where you're not sure if the outcome is going to work or should you never dive when you're unsure? Because I think for a lot of people who play the game, that's like, especially Spider-Man players, that's a huge issue is knowing kind of when to go in. I know that so basic, so simple, but I kind of want to hear it from you just like, what is your thought process for diving on a character like Heelpool or Rocket, like you said.

Cuffy (26:11.959)
Yeah, I mean I do want to hear light's perspective first just obviously because light is easy and I'll go first I'll go first but I do want to hear light's perspective after it But yeah, no a lot comes down to it In general But I find it easier on a character like Rocket because the character is AFK is very easy to track like if you're a rocket player and you aren't tracking cool nouns

something seriously wrong because you know i mean you have all the time in the world to be focusing on that and purely that

Captain Coach (26:44.84)
Ha ha

Coach Mills (26:45.226)
No, no, this is this is a such a I'm glad you're saying this Kofi as a rocket player because I feel like There are characters that you're supposed to fill their downtime with something like there's whether it's calms whether it's old tracking ability tracking Your the the default play should not take up a hundred percent of your brain power You know, but it makes sense that my fucking hella flip my hella player is

Cuffy (26:50.748)
You

Captain Coach (26:57.804)
Yeah, with thoughts.

Cuffy (26:57.887)
Yeah. Yeah.

Coach Mills (27:12.436)
They're locked the fuck in and I want them to be locked the fuck in, know, but I'm just glad you said that.

Cuffy (27:13.834)
Yeah.

Cuffy (27:18.079)
Yeah, nah, for sure. But then if you see something like Heal Pool, Heal Pool is a unique one because, especially in organized play, the engagements are very timed around the fast moving ults or the Heal Pool E, which is like the self heal, the aura, and stuff like that, right? Yeah, and the gun right click as well.

Lyte (27:35.466)
the gun right click to.

Cuffy (27:41.845)
With Healpool, the engagements are very timed around the cooldowns that Healpool himself actually has. Obviously there's aspects of like triggers and cooldowns and stuff like that. I know when I'm teaching my dive teams, we operate off of splits and isolations. And I say splits, doesn't matter how many people are on a split. If a split looks deliberate, ignore it, hit something else. If an isolation, which is the other word that I use, isolation is something that

is not deliberate. Isolations are accidental and can be punished, whereas splits, deliberate, they innately get value from giving that attention so we ignore it and take a 6v4 because two of them are elsewhere. Do see what I mean?

Captain Coach (28:24.258)
Deliberate meaning you planned the engage beforehand?

Cuffy (28:26.987)
Yeah, yeah, so a lot of dive is like, is this a bait? You know, is this deliberate? But yeah.

Coach Mills (28:28.158)
We are... yeah.

Captain Coach (28:33.409)
Right.

Coach Mills (28:34.026)
So teams are splitting on purpose. They want you to kind of, you know, attack the split or focus the split. I got you. Force out the split. Because in the process of forcing out the split, there's plays to be made. There's punishes that they can, yeah.

Cuffy (28:38.539)
Give it attention, exactly. Yeah, yeah.

Captain Coach (28:41.601)
That's super interesting.

Cuffy (28:47.947)
They're gonna do something else, right? Like, strat isn't, we're gonna split. Their strat is, we're gonna split and then when we give it attention, something else is gonna happen, you know? So we just ignore the split from the start.

Coach Mills (28:58.726)
So it's kind of like, it's like, it's like real weakness, a real mistake, like positional weakness versus like fake weakness. Like, yeah, that's interesting. Gotcha.

Cuffy (29:05.823)
Yeah, essentially.

Captain Coach (29:05.858)
Faint, We talk about that a lot with support positioning, being able to bait out cool downs. What would be your advice then to the average dive player in your ranked games when the coordination's a lot lower as a coach? How do know when you're getting baited? Is it just, again, just comes with game sense, game knowledge, playing a lot of games? Or is there something more deep to it?

I always talk about cool down tracking, also like the map can come into play, right? Like when you're on defense or offense, so like where, what's like the best kind of tidbit you could give to people trying to.

Cuffy (29:32.012)
That's

Yeah.

Cuffy (29:40.896)
But that's the beauty about ranked, right? No one's gonna bait you until like 1 of a wall. You know? Like, you can just...

Captain Coach (29:46.625)
You

I'm noticing a pattern with your opinion of the people in your ranked games, Cuffee. Yeah, no, I do feel that way, but I have been, you know, I've definitely been baited before, you know, like, yeah, like, supports walking up.

Coach Mills (29:49.694)
No

Lyte (29:49.824)
That's facts.

Cuffy (29:55.819)
but nah, like literally.

Coach Mills (30:04.074)
When they start setting traps more than ranked is what we need to do. Just all these traps, you know?

Captain Coach (30:07.702)
Yeah, we always think we're better, we just run at them and maybe we just need to let them come to us. Let them beat themselves.

Coach Mills (30:12.778)
Yeah, right. This is a question I actually haven't asked either of y'all, but I'll ask you first, like, how do you feel about the Oat change overall? And do you think it's enough? Like, what are your opinions on it?

Lyte (30:25.866)
Yeah, I like it. I think making the game more neutral based and giving more opportunities to do something before these really, really big impactful support ults come off cooldown that just say no, no one's dying for 10 seconds is way more interesting. I was never in the camp of this change initially because I didn't really know what it would do or what it would feel like, but overall I like it. I think it's much better. The game feels better, less spammy. I think that the bigger issues with the game are the two...

main things that I've always talked about since forever is the matchmaking is really bad and the balance is really bad. Recently, actually, this patch is the first time ever that they've hotfixed nerf twice in one patch. They've never done that before. They rarely did hotfixes and they've been more active with hotfixes, but this patch we got two hotfix nerfs. That makes me think, okay, maybe we're starting to understand we can't just leave the same hard meta poke characters or gambit in their states for much longer because

Captain Coach (31:07.223)
Yeah.

Coach Mills (31:21.992)
Right.

Lyte (31:24.658)
I know for me personally, I know this isn't the same for everyone in every rank, you guys have different experiences on what's good and what isn't, but I am so bored of hearing gamut never folds and my entire team dies. It's still to this day, it's so boring. Can we please just meaningfully nerf his ult and meaningfully nerf Elsa, give Elsa a weakness, please.

Captain Coach (31:36.75)
Yeah

Coach Mills (31:39.294)
Legend followed by legend followed by legendary followed by a bunch of bullshit

Captain Coach (31:43.724)
We could definitely talk about that.

Captain Coach (31:50.414)
I feel like they kind of buffed it too. Like the damage increase is better than in my opinion, the movement speed loss. The duration hurts, like you can kill through support, I'll see if...

Lyte (31:54.152)
Yeah, like...

Lyte (32:00.384)
I don't know why they have this philosophy of they need to compensate buff broken heroes. Just nerf it, just leave it. You don't gotta add anything back there bro. I remember they did that to season 3 or something. They compensate nerfed Mr. Fantastic. They nerfed him and then comp buffed him but the nerf was more impactful than the buff.

Cuffy (32:22.827)
Yes, yes, my, yes.

Lyte (32:24.04)
So ended up in a net nerf for Mr. Fanta who was already like a C or D tier character. Like, you just can't make it up. Like, yeah, and Iron Man too. They nerfed Iron Man too. It's just like, they nerfed Iron Man and Prime Gene meta bro. It's like, what are we doing, you know?

Captain Coach (32:29.314)
They... They kind of did with... They did that with Thing a little bit too, in my opinion. Yeah.

Coach Mills (32:31.858)
Yeah, I don't know why they do that. They do that all the time. Well, like, and it's...

Coach Mills (32:44.49)
Yeah, I don't know what they're doing like sometimes it makes no sense and they did that with sigh a lot too It's just like like ultimately you didn't buff or nerf the character. You just fucking made them different like what are we doing? Yeah

Lyte (32:46.474)
Ha ha!

Yeah, yeah.

Lyte (32:55.09)
Yeah, yeah, I know it's like a little like off the side of what the original question was, but yeah, I just I feel like I just got to repeat myself until something happens, but I think people are like finally starting to to acknowledge how bad the balance is for how long it's been.

Coach Mills (32:59.91)
No, that's a good point, yeah.

Captain Coach (33:10.858)
I think with the double hotfix, I think they're going to be looking at their player numbers very closely, in my opinion, because obviously they must have seen something like, we made a balance change, more people are sticking around this patch. So they're probably trying to kind of follow up with that. I really do think they are listening. As much as we critique them, just to kind of defend them a little bit, obviously maybe their goals aren't all just for the pro scene. Semito.

calls this game non-competitive. He was very, very harshly critiqued in the comments and on Twitter. Do you guys agree with him? Is Marvel Rivals non-competitive? His words, quote.

Coach Mills (33:42.92)
They're very, very...

Coach Mills (33:48.627)
Yup.

Lyte (33:54.282)
Yeah, I made an entire video on this, because Avenue made a video talking about it as well. And I think that this game, it's really, really hard to quantify what something competitive actually is if you break it down. Because, for example, there is Olympic-level speed walking. What I consider that competitive or what I care about that, no. But the people who are involved in that obviously do, and they train their whole lives for it. So it's like, who am I or anyone to say what is or isn't competitive? You can make Connect 4 competitive, bro, or chess.

Coach Mills (34:18.995)
Yeah.

Coach Mills (34:22.46)
Yeah, speed stacking. mean, that shit that shit gets legit. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Lyte (34:24.217)
Speed set like stacking cups bro like stacking cups exactly. It's like

Captain Coach (34:27.756)
Why do only kids do those competitions? And the Rubik's cubes, it's only every kid.

Lyte (34:30.664)
Yeah, so it's like, you can have things? Yeah.

Coach Mills (34:32.682)
That's your prime bro, that's why. That's the peak. You never have a better reaction time.

Captain Coach (34:34.35)
Never better than that. It's peak performance.

Lyte (34:38.61)
Yeah, you can have something be more or less competitive, in its nature, like the nature of something being competitive is up to those participating. I don't think that anyone can say whether or not it is, except for the people who are involved in it. So, I mean...

Captain Coach (34:52.078)
Sure.

Coach Mills (34:54.942)
Yeah, that's actually that's been my number one response because I know Boker said the game was not competitive. I think Samido did as well. And it's like no one could give me a definition of what that actually means. Like, what is it? What does it definitionally mean to be uncompetitive or competitive? Like people play this game, they take it seriously. I think personally, I like to give actual context to what I want. I want decisions that increase the skill gap and skill expression in the game. That's what I want.

Captain Coach (35:03.458)
Paz.

Lyte (35:07.103)
Yeah, exactly.

Coach Mills (35:23.91)
And anything that goes towards that is what I want. I don't really care about this competitive versus non-competitive. You could argue that increasing those skill nuances is a competitive thing, but who cares about that whole topic personally?

Captain Coach (35:35.214)
I want to follow up with that. So earlier, Cuffy, you said that most people, I guess right now in the pro area, can't really play Magic. Is the issue with the game that swapping is just too important and people can't get to a ceiling where they can actually just carry on one character?

Cuffy (35:58.487)
why wouldn't say it's a one-character thing is the game has a band system if you play one character you're not going to get very far you know i mean i do you think that there for whatever reason whether it's like metro or even an issue with coaches or an issue with like general consensus a lot of creativity has been kinda shot down on the most part of the is do we have teams like

like a nightmare or even ywo that are like doing stuff that is like different to other teams but like when when magic players come to mind tanuki from eu rimei zing from NA they're like yeah yeah now they're just all on meta characters you know i mean

Lyte (36:43.104)
Pyro used to play a lot of Magic too, back in the day.

Captain Coach (36:48.716)
Yeah, well, yeah, it's like more like comp building is where the kind of like competitive part of this game comes in. In my opinion, I think that's a decent part of it. I mean, to be honest, most of the pro stuff I've watched recently, I haven't really seen a ton of swapping, which was a little surprising to me. Maybe I just like watched the wrong games, but I really didn't see a lot.

Lyte (37:11.274)
Yeah, I think, sorry, Kuffie, if wanna go?

Cuffy (37:14.743)
i i i didn't really have that much of an insightful answer i feel like your answer would be better to be fair

Lyte (37:20.604)
Yeah, I was gonna say like people pretty much figured out the meta for the preseason I know like a lot of people were coming in my chat and asking me like why don't you guys ban Gambit? Why don't you guys ban Elsa so on and so forth? But it's like the characters are pretty equal in power and it's kind of up for debate which one's better Some teams are better with Elsa some teams are better with Gambit But like you are building your entire draft and comp around one of those two characters And if the enemy team gets one of them and you don't you basically instantly lose the game

Obviously it's not like that gyre, but it is like a severe disadvantage. Yeah. Yeah, but that's like I agree that like takes away from the competitive integrity of the game and you can have something that is like less competitive like the new map having a scan that gives wall hacks and shows ult charge like that's obviously not competitive. That's kind of questionable. Just before we get sidetracked on the new map real quick.

Captain Coach (37:49.102)
That to me is not competitive. That to me is not competitive.

Captain Coach (37:59.64)
Yeah.

Captain Coach (38:05.814)
yeah i did want to talk about that yeah yeah sorry

Coach Mills (38:07.091)
Wha- wha- what is that by the way? What the fuck is that?

Okay... Okay...

Lyte (38:15.22)
Like obviously you can have a ton of things that make something less competitive even though I still think it is in its nature. like basically if you're an Elsa team and you brought Elsa first, Liquid I think was the first team to discover. If you just pick Ultron Elsa just like you did with Torch, it's unbeatable. There's like not a DPS that you can play next to that Elsa that is better than Ultron. Like Ultron is like unironically better than all 20 plus DPS. You can't play anything else besides Ultron Mirror.

Which is why you're starting to see like towards the end of the preseason everyone to protect Elsa and protect Ultron

Captain Coach (38:47.232)
Yeah, we got it in our notes here that Ultron I've been I've been saying for a while this one that I'm gonna take credit for I've been saying Ultron is good and no one is it's figured him out yet like how to make him work What makes him so strong?

Lyte (38:56.81)
Yeah. He's... I mean, it's just Elsa. If Elsa was worse Ultron would be worse by nature, but he's just the best character in the game at enabling a broken hitscan. Or like a broken, like, main DPS character. Like, that role of Elsa, could be a Star-Lord, it could be a Torch, it could be a Phoenix, it could be a Blade even. It just depends on what character in that role, how good are their numbers.

Cuffy (39:07.831)
character.

Captain Coach (39:09.998)
Is it?

Right.

Cuffy (39:14.497)
Be Nick.

Captain Coach (39:18.956)
It's just because they can't be bursted out with the, like they cycle through the cool down.

Lyte (39:21.492)
Yeah, I mean Elsa's permanently 350, 400 dashes give her a damage boost. Yeah, like, the shield as well, like...

Coach Mills (39:21.896)
Yeah.

Captain Coach (39:25.046)
Right, and then the Ultron shield, yeah.

Coach Mills (39:27.562)
It is

Cuffy (39:27.639)
He also got two drones and a damage boost. Ultron now is stronger than Ultron pre-like, you know what mean? But how I described it, because I made a TikTok saying that Ultron will be meta next set of patches a month and a half ago, which is kind of crazy. But how I described it is if we actually look at most pro Ignite games of last year, they were very much neutral based comps, whether it was full dive or whether it was like

Lyte (39:31.477)
Yeah.

Lyte (39:35.69)
Prime Ultronia.

Captain Coach (39:56.494)
Yeah.

Cuffy (39:57.111)
the Ultron triple that was skilled to an extent because it was like outside of old cycle things but then funnyman gambit yeah

Captain Coach (40:03.554)
Even saw Ultron doubles. Sorry to interrupt you. I saw Crazy Raccoons. They were doing Ultron Rocket, and it was working. And this was way back. Yeah.

Cuffy (40:10.047)
Ultron rocket. Yeah, Citadel ran that as well. Yeah. Yeah, but this is what I'm saying, right Gambit got released and The entire state of the game changed all of these old farm backline characters Shot up in power level whether that's Gambit whether that's rocket whether that's Loki even characters that weren't traditionally old farm characters like Loki who has a lot of neutral value

the playstyle would just sit three clones behind main tank, shoot your main tank, I've got faster ult, copy gambit, gambit first, win the game and now you also have second gambit because you got the lowkey gambit, copy first and then like people just kind of associated Marvel Rivals identity with ult responses, ult responses when actually the strongest comps are almost always neutral comps when one ult isn't

Captain Coach (40:50.083)
Right.

Cuffy (41:05.621)
completely broken busted. They kinda trolled by dropping Elsa which is like the DPS version of Gambit which is also another thing that I said. It's just ult, farm, boom, pop it. But I think people are realizing that neutral comps have been saved now. Like they're fine, they're fine. We just need to kill Elsa.

Coach Mills (41:24.618)
It's kind of interesting that I feel like the pro meta, like the pro meta and the ranked meta are always really different. But like the big difference right now, at least from my perspective, is that you can't protect in ranked. So Gambit and Elsa are almost always banned, right? Like they're like very, very often those characters are banned. But in pro play, you kind of have to pick one. You pick to ban one and they protect the other one. So like, how do you how do you kind of feel about like

This is kind of a question about the three bands and then also I think that the fact that there are characters that are that dominant, it actually hurts pro play more or affects pro play more than it does ranked now that we have three bands.

Captain Coach (42:03.246)
I totally agree. Totally agree with that.

Coach Mills (42:11.338)
What do you think, light?

Lyte (42:12.416)
Hmm.

Could you repeat the last sentence of what you said?

Coach Mills (42:18.13)
Yeah, well, basically what I'm what I'm saying is that because of the band systems being different from pro play and ranked, like we have three bands now and like all of the bullshit typically gets banned and ranked like the Gambit, the Elsa. But in pro play, y'all are typically protecting one of those characters. Right. So like like y'all are feeling the the oppressive broken characters actually more than ranked lobbies are like in a lot of times like

Lyte (42:25.876)
Yeah.

Lyte (42:31.168)
Mhm.

Lyte (42:35.637)
Yeah.

Lyte (42:44.66)
Yeah. Yeah.

Captain Coach (42:46.114)
Good point.

Coach Mills (42:47.242)
And so like, do you think that that means that they need to make sure that these characters get addressed like faster, these like top level players? Cause it feels like the bands, like increasing the bands is kind like a band aid fix. Like ranked is to be fine cause we can ban the broken shit.

Lyte (43:00.254)
Yeah, I mean... Yeah. It's just like, the problem is like, they should do that just for the health of the game, but like if a character is banned 24-7, it just means that no one likes playing against the character and it should probably be addressed, even if it's not broken. Like if a character comes out that is just really toxic and not f- like Moon Knight, like Moon Knight is permabanned at like GM, bro. Like, I- I think it was like two, two or three weeks ago I was getting my account up.

Coach Mills (43:23.55)
Yeah, right.

Lyte (43:27.768)
And whenever I was in that rank, Diamond through GM, everyone just bans Moon Knight and Penny and Punisher. And I think Punisher Shotgun is probably why, which is like little corny, but like Penny and Moon Knight, I know for a fact, no one likes playing against those characters. And even though they're not broken, they should probably be looked at and like have their powers adjusted. Like Moon Knight is a lot more simple than Penny, you just take away power from the Ankh and put it in the rest of his kit. Or like Hawkeye. Hawkeye is a perfect example, bro. Like everyone hates Hawkeye. One shots aren't fun, but...

He needs it or he's the worst hero in the game So it's like can we take away Hawkeye's one shot but buff the rest of his kit like make him 275 Increase his draw speed increases fire rate, you know, just buff him across the board, but just take take the anti fun away

Cuffy (44:10.133)
I do think that some characters need to be bad though because like Black Widow Yeah, like but Black Widow if that character was strong, I wouldn't play the game. I wouldn't play the That's what I'm saying.

Lyte (44:13.699)
there always will be, like naturally. Yeah.

Lyte (44:19.092)
game would be horrible. No one would play the game. No. Yeah, no one would play the game. But like, can we just take Black Widow and just rework her to not be a hitscan sniper because we already have five of those, bro. Overwatch has done such a good job, by the way, of differentiating their hitscan. I think it's like one my favorite things about the game is there's a very clear distinction about when you're playing Cassidy, when you're playing Sojourn, when you're playing Ashe, Freya, so on and so forth. Like they all feel unique in their role of just like a ranged damage dealer.

Coach Mills (44:20.766)
No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, yeah.

Captain Coach (44:21.144)
you

Lyte (44:48.5)
But what's the difference between Elsa, Hela? It's the same fucking character, it's just one's better than the other right now.

Cuffy (44:48.673)
Yeah.

Cuffy (44:55.143)
frame stun there's the same thing

Lyte (44:56.638)
Yeah, iframe stun ult. Uncontestable range poke hit scan.

Coach Mills (44:57.014)
Hey, yeah, man, y'all y'all legit gave me PTSD about Widowmaker. Holy fuck I'm still thinking about that like playing against that character when you can't banner. my god. It's this it's actually terms No, there's no at least bro, I'm sorry like flight floating around the

Lyte (45:03.604)
Yeah, I mean, yeah.

Lyte (45:08.662)
my god, yeah. But at least she doesn't have a stun and a teleport, right? Like... At least if you're Genji you can win in a close range fight.

Coach Mills (45:19.921)
When you're like around like low 4,000 back in Overwatch and there's like a 4,500 Widowmaker like just fucking literally soloing your entire fucking lobby you're like, alright what do I do? what the fuck? Oh, someone said again, oh someone said again, oh someone said again, okay. That's true, ball Sombra like just do some bullshit, perma stealth, yeah yeah yeah like that.

Lyte (45:26.688)
Just misery. Just misery. Yeah.

Captain Coach (45:32.952)
So.

Lyte (45:35.08)
At least with open queue we had ball. You could just go ball or hog. Take the game in your own hands,

Captain Coach (45:42.552)
So what's your favorite part then? mean, we got, you got to deal with some pretty broken stuff. You got to, you have to navigate the meta constantly when you're trying to become either a pro coach or player. What is the most appealing part of that for you?

Is it just that love the game, you love playing the game, or is it something a little different?

Cuffy (46:00.343)
for me it's the the the mind game and i think this actually like really address into the definition of it being competitive i view the game as competitive because to me as a coach although there are very very strong characters they're alike the still mind games going on against this team do i band and that do i band t p do i man elsa

What would their potential pivots be? Do they have a DD player? No? Okay, we can commit bands to... Let's say Mantis. Mantis is another good middle band. That character is a joke as well. That character is a joke as Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Lyte (46:39.956)
character is broken. banned that character. I parba banned that character. Mantis is the most slept on hero in the game, like 100%. If people realize how broken Mantis Triple was and like just actually wanted to hard win every game, like my god the game would be so miserable bro. Mantis is just unbelievable.

Coach Mills (46:42.076)
Insane insane insane

Captain Coach (46:43.074)
Wow.

Cuffy (46:50.348)
Yes.

Coach Mills (46:56.65)
You

Captain Coach (46:58.158)
Well, it wouldn't be a Clearcom's pod episode if we didn't talk about Triple Healer for a little bit, you know? It wants to start.

Cuffy (46:59.297)
Mm-hmm.

Coach Mills (47:03.043)
Yeah, yeah, pretty much every, every...

Lyte (47:03.13)
Yeah... So, but...

Coach Mills (47:10.666)
Yeah, I mean there's probably a lot of like DPS players that should just be locking mantis But they're they're they're playing Bucky or some bullshit instead and they're losing games and when they would be winning most likely Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's insane. so I have a little bit of beef real quick with I I wanted I've been saving this pod to rant about it cuz so I've actually in general been enjoying this game You know more than I have in a long time. I've logged

Cuffy (47:11.295)
Mwahaha

Lyte (47:17.012)
Yeah, like.

Cuffy (47:18.315)
No, literally.

Cuffy (47:22.032)
They'll never lose. They will never lose if they just go mantis triple.

Coach Mills (47:39.966)
more after this season than any other season I think besides like season zero I've been putting in a lot of hours but the other day I was in a lobby and there was four other streamers we were bickering, banting, having fun and I was calming my dives and mid fight mid calm I'm saying dive the fucking widow I think or but dive the fucking hello they calm ban me for six hours automatically like just they they just auto they just auto flag ban me for six hours like

Captain Coach (48:01.193)
wait, I was in that game.

Coach Mills (48:07.898)
I hate anything that is built into a game that is like it PG fies the game reduces like Banturing and bickering. I I hate it. I like absolutely hate it. think it's like like a very soft change What do y'all how do y'all feel about some of like the auto modding stuff?

Lyte (48:24.682)
I was holding.

Coach Mills (48:26.196)
Yeah.

Cuffy (48:27.159)
Yeah, like.

Lyte (48:27.954)
Yeah, I it's just horrible.

Cuffy (48:30.839)
I don't know how they haven't called me yet. The stuff that I... true. Yeah, it must be. It must be, right?

Lyte (48:33.438)
You

Captain Coach (48:33.612)
Yeah.

Coach Mills (48:34.134)
It's your accent bro, can't tell. The auto mod can't

Captain Coach (48:38.848)
I had a game, I was yelling at the rank one in Viz for an entire game and I didn't get chat restricted. then I said, I think I called like my duo a bitch, like just as a joke and I got chat restricted for six hours.

Coach Mills (48:43.048)
Yeah,

Coach Mills (48:48.426)
Because I never flame anybody by the way, I don't know if like I'm probably I feel like I'm one of the more positive people at least grinding ranked Yeah, yeah, especially I've been combat more than captain coach just because I like to calm like I like to just call I like to calm my dies I like to calm what I'm doing and the system just fucking hates me. I don't know like I You have been combat quite a bit, but I don't know. I just keep getting combat Makes me not want to talk like I don't even want to

Captain Coach (48:56.94)
Yeah, me too. Me too, actually.

Captain Coach (49:06.766)
You sure about that?

Cuffy (49:10.422)
Yeah

Captain Coach (49:13.902)
Most of it's from mundane, trivial stuff. just saying, the B word is definitely that you get flagged for that. And I think high volume too, by the way. Cause you do yell a little bit, Mr. Mills. You do yell.

Coach Mills (49:23.016)
No, maybe that's what it is. I do, I do, but if I say, fuck you, you suck, if I'm yelling at somebody, that's one thing. But if I say, kill the fucking hell out, why is that not allowed? Are we serious? I guess it's a Marvel game, it's like, under 12, can't say a curse word, is that what it is? My bad, I didn't know that that was the rules.

Captain Coach (49:33.153)
Just mute the pod, mute the pod.

Captain Coach (49:43.082)
The player's name was Hella.

Cuffy (49:49.111)
If I No, no, no, literally, literally you have to get creative with it like sometimes you'll just like spam the link to your coaching and the in the chat like bam bam bam bam, but like

Coach Mills (49:50.57)
I guess. I don't know. I've been pissed about it all week. I'm just, I'm still mad about it, bro.

Captain Coach (49:59.79)
I need to watch this. I'm definitely going to check you out after this. Guy, more creative with it. That's good. That's real good.

Coach Mills (50:03.27)
Ha ha ha ha!

Cuffy (50:08.564)
Yeah!

Cuffy (50:12.787)
Nah, it's a joke though. find it really weird how like, comms always seem to be negative, but a lot of people do... I don't understand how much toxicity is actually in the ranked matches because like I say, toxicity is common, but I do feel like people were getting banned all the time. So it's like, how were people getting banned for the wrong reasons and you're letting these cretins, like actual cretins in my lobby?

Coach Mills (50:40.01)
No, that's actually so true. It's crazy. It's crazy

Captain Coach (50:45.966)
We want to talk about the problem with the new report system now. They definitely cracked down a little bit, but I think I've seen a bit more soft inting now, people trying to avoid this system. I think a lot of people are aware of it because of that cheating website and then people, you know, the throwing. So now it's kind of, the game itself feels better, but I think the game quality is still not the best in my opinion.

Cuffy (51:01.056)
Yeah.

Lyte (51:01.472)
Bro.

Lyte (51:10.036)
Yeah, no bro like I I'm like so I played so much ranked at this point I can't tell if someone is throwing the game or if they're just bad or if the matchmaker wants me to lose like even today before before this before this podcast bro played played for two hours every single game for two hours straight was I spawn camp them or I got spawn camped like no in between People much I were complaining about it too even Mills when we played like two days ago like how many games did we have that were just law like you know, it's just

Cuffy (51:20.124)
You

Cuffy (51:27.307)
you

Coach Mills (51:38.603)
They were lost from 10 seconds in. It was like, it's over.

Lyte (51:39.976)
Yeah, it's like, yeah, mean, we could just LARP and say we don't use EOMM, but we know that you use your own version of it. It's just so evident, and that everyone is experiencing something similar. So it's like, how are you going to gaslight the community and say that you're intentionally influencing the outcome of these games?

Coach Mills (51:45.802)
Okay

Coach Mills (51:57.726)
Yeah. Because I because Cap and like you both, you both believe in EOMM, right? I know we're kind of full running back into this this combo or this combo.

Captain Coach (51:58.626)
Well...

Captain Coach (52:04.554)
Yeah. I think Rio, I believe Rio said he does too. that's where the most people we've had on do not think it's real. Yeah. Like Boger, Samino, they didn't.

Lyte (52:04.604)
100%.

Coach Mills (52:14.182)
No, no, I don't either. My thing is, I just think it's math. Like at some point you're going to get a fucking, you know, like four handless people on your team, you know, or you're to get people that can only play the same heroes or you're going to get just that. Like if I get in the lobby and there's three tanks in that lobby, like three other tank players and I'm on anything else, we're probably going to lose. it's like the game's over and it's no one's fault.

Lyte (52:15.584)
Yeah, they're just in denial.

Captain Coach (52:27.853)
Well.

Captain Coach (52:38.05)
Well, you said it earlier, Light. It's the biggest problems with the game. said matchmaking and balance. I think those two are very related. think because of the importance. I mean, I know we talk about it all the time, but of the support role that if you do not have someone on that position, your chances to win are drastically reduced. I've been one, because I've kind of like.

taken more of a casual view of the game recently, and I've kind of been enjoying it more that way. shoot, I forgot I was gonna go with that. What was I saying? yeah, skill versus.

Coach Mills (53:23.511)
You were talking about having a certain player, support players that play the role on the team?

Captain Coach (53:23.542)
I lost it.

Captain Coach (53:28.964)
right. Different support players. Yeah, so do you think if the... I actually wanted to ask about Role-Q. That's what I wanted to ask about. What are your thoughts on that? I know most people, before you say anything, very against it based off of what happened with Overwatch. But again, I think we talked about a few episodes ago where I brought up League of Legends and the results they had with Role-Q actually were very positive. Do think that would be good for the game? Coffee, we'll start with you.

Cuffy (53:58.999)
I'm actually anti-rock Q to be honest, but like me when I'm coaching I'm very compositional. Like I really like seeing stuff fit into place and stuff like that. So I'm not like super duper against like triple support or triple tank slop. Like I think there is space for it. I don't think it should be oppressive to the point where we're seeing it upwards of 70 % of the time. You know what mean? Like

Captain Coach (54:01.037)
Okay.

Cuffy (54:28.407)
I was thinking maybe a way they could balance it is like the more supports you have the slower the ult charge rate you know like passive nerfs so like if you're over committing to one tank role or over committing to you like one support role

Captain Coach (54:53.004)
Sorry, little-

I'm a little confused what that has to do with like, WorldQ exactly, because like, WorldQ you would assume it would be like, 2-2-2. You're saying that it would not encourage other comps? Why would you nerf them then? I'm sorry, I'm not following.

Lyte (55:49.472)
Bring it back, bring it back, bring it back.

Coach Mills (55:51.293)
shit.

Captain Coach (55:51.854)
simpler times

Coach Mills (55:56.394)
That fucking cub would be broken with Adam being able to fly. Holy shit. And his rez being like way better now too. Yeah.

Lyte (56:01.214)
Yeah.

uncounterable. Yeah.

Captain Coach (56:05.742)
Starlord has the TP, the teleport now too.

Captain Coach (56:19.918)
But that's, yeah, but that, don't think Roque necessarily means you're locked to 2-2-2. I think it would just encourage it. Like make sure your team has two healer players. I feel like that's kind of a given. Is there ever a situation in like a probe game where you'd want one healer? No, I don't think so. Like that seems ridiculous. Yeah, soft Roque.

Coach Mills (56:32.298)
Well, that's a little different.

Coach Mills (56:39.134)
So you're saying like a form of soft roll cue, but it's not it's not it's not roll lock. That's not roll lock.

Lyte (56:43.136)
What would you say, what does soft roll cue look like to you?

Captain Coach (56:45.55)
Yeah, so you would pick what role you want the most, you'd pick what role you want the second most, and obviously your third. So they would try to get as close, as much as they could give you your main role as they could, and then if they couldn't, they'd do off role. It probably wouldn't affect the queue times too much. League of Legends did something just like...

Coach Mills (57:07.146)
Are they gonna, so you're saying they force us into 2-2-2, or like they try to build 2-2-2? Well, but I'm saying that they assume that the optimal comp is 2-2-2. So like that's what they're creating.

Captain Coach (57:10.944)
No, no, no, you'd be able to swap. You're not locked into Heroes.

Captain Coach (57:17.134)
I mean, they don't need to assume it. They have all the numbers they showed us the last devlog, right? So they got the numbers. They know what's good and what's not. Like, think games in general would be way better if every team had two healer players, at least. I think that would just immediately solve like 40, 50 % of the problems people are having. Cause I really do think a lot of games come down to just that. Am I wrong? If I'm wrong, I'm down to-

Coach Mills (57:20.915)
Right.

Lyte (57:43.112)
Yeah, think it's like the easier solution without compromising any of the good stuff about the game, like Kuffee was saying, like the dynamic nature of being able to build different team comps, is the matchmaker just puts you in a lobby with two support players. Like that's simple. I don't know why it doesn't do that. It should do it to where it throws everyone in the lobby who... You have two DPS players who are most played, two tank players who most played, and two support players most played.

But for some reason, in some games, you get no support players or you get four tank players, and I think it's because they prioritize queue times, but I think I speak for literally everyone when I say this, because I've never heard anyone disagree at this point. We will sit in queue for an extra two or more minutes for a higher quality game, like all of us. 100%. And if there people who disagree, let us check a little box that says, I will wait for a better game. That's it.

Captain Coach (58:28.814)
100%.

Coach Mills (58:29.496)
What what?

Coach Mills (58:36.68)
Yeah. I mean, I feel like you go into this little bit of a gray area where I mean, you can kind of take that down. It's like, we need we need a main like two main support. So we got it. We got an Adam Mantis on our back line or Adam Ultron. And then then people will also say, hey, they're they're picking our lobbies for us even more so. So people will talk about EOMM and they'll say, hey, this lobby is chosen for us. we lost him. We lost him. he crashed. GG.

Captain Coach (59:06.766)
writing down what you were talking about.

Coach Mills (59:48.202)
You still have light? What's the comment saying?

Lyte (59:51.114)
Yes sir. Alright, what's up?

Coach Mills (59:53.724)
I'm just curious what your chat's saying.

Lyte (59:56.832)
ain't moving that much right now, but someone said yeah, we lost, so.

Coach Mills (01:00:02.129)
okay fair enough.

Captain Coach (01:00:09.239)
Did you want to talk about the recent, I guess, drama, you want to call it? Or did you want to just not bring that up?

Coach Mills (01:00:09.3)
Bro,

Lyte (01:00:18.081)
no, I mean I can talk about it a little bit. just like...

I don't think anybody really understands the nature of what happened and what I went through over the course of the year, everything that happened on FlyQuest from the beginning until now. It was very, very...

Coach Mills (01:00:36.382)
You can, you're free to talk about that on the pod if you want, or we can not talk. Like if you wanted to give context.

Lyte (01:00:42.132)
I mean, whatever you want to add in if you want. But it was very, very difficult for me to be in a situation where nobody even really right now understands what had happened in FlyQuest and why I was removed. And for me to not talk about that for nine months, for me to watch the team that I helped build from scratch, from the ground up, compete on an international stage, play at LAN.

play on stage and all this other stuff, which is a dream that I've had personally for nine months. Or not nine months, for like my entire life. And then to like be constantly attacked for stuff that like I don't even think he understands truly like how that's like affected me, like what actually happened is like why I made those personal comments and like.

I don't think I should have said it 100 % but I think in the moment if everyone knew what had happened and then I was also upset over all the losses and stuff because all the games were really close. We lost three or four series in a row, one to two. It was very overwhelming in the moment and I still... I just want to focus on myself and my team and just compete. I just want to move on from all this garbage.

Captain Coach (01:01:58.674)
Do you think a bit of like, where do you draw the line with like trash talking and like the pro scene? Is a little bit of that good for the game or not?

Lyte (01:02:07.976)
I don't know. I don't I don't really care. I just don't want to be like in the center of like some like drama farm garbage, bro. I just Like I said, I just want to compete and do my thing. That's all Yeah

Captain Coach (01:02:18.882)
That's all you can do, man. Just gotta push through and just keep doing you.

Coach Mills (01:02:20.234)
Makes sense.

Lyte (01:02:23.358)
Yeah, like I've thought about talking about it more and explaining my side of the story and stuff like that, but then it's just gonna blow up into this whole thing and I'm just... I'm over it, man. I don't wanna do all that shit.

Captain Coach (01:02:30.784)
not worth it. Yeah.

I, you feel like you gotta address this person coming and you gotta do all this, like it's like, just, just, just not a big deal.

Lyte (01:02:41.502)
Yeah, because I just... People DM me, people DM me because people like start rumors and shit about like just random stuff. Because people just like to like yap or like a bunch of garbage and I just have to like clarify it and all this other stuff and like I just get so tired and like a headache for I got too much shit to worry about and I don't want to worry about some some drama. So like, I don't know.

Captain Coach (01:02:55.478)
I don't even.

Captain Coach (01:03:04.457)
I mean, I respect that. I think that's the way you got to go about doing it. Just stay in your lane and keep doing your own stuff. And like you said, just keep trying to get better. mean, that's really all you can do. People are going to hate you. You're always going to have haters, especially if you're doing something great.

Lyte (01:03:13.727)
Yeah.

Lyte (01:03:19.488)
Yeah, yeah, 100 % bro. Like I'm not trying to be friends with everybody. I got people who hate me. I have people who love me as well. So it's just, it just comes with the territory. It's just like.

Captain Coach (01:03:30.08)
Absolutely. Well, welcome back, Koffee.

Coach Mills (01:03:30.77)
Yeah, you hear that Ned Ease? I need a Nightmare Jersey on my Deadpool character, okay? I need that like ASAP. I need that like yesterday.

Lyte (01:03:31.08)
Yeah, it's how it is.

Lyte (01:03:35.136)
Yeah, yeah, we'll see we're hopefully we'll come back much stronger in stage one It was just like bro stage one was so sad or pre-season was so sad too because our scrim results against the teams that we lost were like so So good, like we had five owed SSG and yeah, we lost like multiple times So we like went into that like super super confident and to like lose in the manner that we did it was just like so sad, bro

Coach Mills (01:04:04.906)
Welcome back, Cuffee. Keep you to back. Yeah, what's up, what's up?

Cuffy (01:04:06.478)
Hi.

Captain Coach (01:04:08.142)
Sorry, we didn't mean to go without you. were kind of just talking about if you wanted to.

Cuffy (01:04:10.788)
not i get it i have no idea what happened but hopefully it doesn't happen again i know how to fix it if it does but yeah no i do

Coach Mills (01:04:16.403)
Yeah.

Coach Mills (01:04:20.246)
yeah, and speaking of like not being liked I I see sometimes comfy you're you're not the most I mean, yeah, you're you're liked but like sometimes you're not afraid to like get into it on twitter or get into it with people

Cuffy (01:04:32.012)
Yeah, I mean for me it's it's twitter there was like a big blow up like last year but like

I don't have any regrets about the situation though, to be fair like everyone involved like apologize to me it was some very very strange like rumors being like spread by ex teammates and stuff but like it was for example like one of the rumors was I would skip scrims and officials to do drugs and do drugs you know I mean like

Coach Mills (01:05:07.016)
What the fuck?

Lyte (01:05:07.626)
Yeah, yeah, mean, bro, like, I've gotten so much bullshit like that in my DMs too, bro. Just garbage, like, you know, like what? Exactly, like.

Coach Mills (01:05:11.764)
What are these route? I swear just like people just come up with bullshit when they're bored. No. Yeah, I do appreciate Cuffee how you will respond directly to any sort of nonsense and you'll stand up for yourself like every single time. Like I actually I like that. Like I do like that's a little bit of a different strategy than coach.

Captain Coach (01:05:15.457)
Yeah.

Cuffy (01:05:28.26)
Yeah.

Captain Coach (01:05:30.67)
I'm the total opposite. I just block all that out. I don't really care. It's just noise to me. is it more like an image thing? Because for you, it's like your profession. You've got to maintain credibility. And there's crazy people online, dude.

Coach Mills (01:05:37.717)
turn it off.

Cuffy (01:05:47.502)
Yeah.

That's what's scuffed, but the thing is like the the people that creating those sort of rumors about me are genuinely people want big big like orgs like big American orgs from and that's what I mean like so for me there's a whole bunch of people that I would refuse to work with there are people that I would refuse to work with on thieves current fly quest on heretics

Captain Coach (01:06:04.534)
ooooh that's yeah

Cuffy (01:06:18.084)
That's already three of the, you know, big, big orgs that I would otherwise want to be on, but I just, I just don't get on with them at all. And from my perspective is, um, I've never found it difficult to socialize. know that I'm not a freak, you know, I mean, I can speak to people very freely and openly, but at the same time, like, I don't know if it was just like how, where I was raised, but like, if, if someone like disrespects me, I will happily disrespect them back.

If that makes sense. Like, very very openly. I don't know, not really afraid to add that, to be fair.

Coach Mills (01:06:49.182)
Yeah. Right. Right. No, agreed. Yeah, that makes sense. That makes a lot of sense. That's kind of exactly what Light was talking about earlier. Very similar. No. Yeah, in a lot of ways, like, because I'm not that into the, like, I'm not that close to the pro scene. Like, I'm starting to get more into it because I know a lot of y'all that are involved in it and I want to support y'all and I want to watch y'all and stuff.

like you light and monster and I know Kurova and like so like it's it's cool to watch but like parts of the pro scene kind of feel like the wild west right now like early overwatch where is this like there was like there's not really a lot of rules not really a lot of restrictions like versus later on in overwatch when the overwatch league came out everything all got all of sudden like there was a lot of like red tape and things got like really like

Captain Coach (01:07:23.352)
Thank

Coach Mills (01:07:38.622)
I don't, like, it almost felt like there was no in, like, we never got to look behind the curtain as much as you did in the early days. And like Rivals feels like you kind of get to look behind the curtain of like pros and players, like more than you normally would in esports. like.

Captain Coach (01:07:53.74)
Also the comment by the riot, why do I say riot still? 10 years ago I played the Marvel Rivals CEO when you're talking about the competitive. Yeah, that's cool. Yeah. I mean, I feel like a lot of that's just like the culture now that we live in with everything being on the internet. I think it's a bit of that. I also think it's maybe a less developed scene. Maybe you guys will disagree, but.

Coach Mills (01:08:03.356)
the exac- the pro- the producer, Danny Koo? Yeah, yeah, about... Yeah, yeah.

Lyte (01:08:06.912)
Talking about Danny, yeah.

Lyte (01:08:13.749)
Yeah.

Lyte (01:08:20.67)
I think it's like with the orgs as well. It's like there's clearly like no like actual like issues or whatever But I think between like players it becomes more more personal at least in my in my like Perspective like I felt like that was like deeply personal because of the context

Coach Mills (01:08:38.536)
Gotcha. Where's that? Where's that? And you just you just do you not care about that line? Like, do not think that there should be a line like I guess the question I kind of want to push is like, is drama good for rivals as a whole? Like, is it good to be kind of, you know, we kind of saw what drama did. I'm not going to lie. The Kingsman drama for rivals.

Captain Coach (01:08:40.93)
Yeah, I mean...

Coach Mills (01:09:03.05)
Kind of like increased viewer counts. Like I got a spike in my beginner's guides. I think like that was somebody who's generated. I Kingsman is probably like our first natural born like massive rivals streamer. And then like there is some drama that kind of forms in the rivals e-sports space. But then there's like people like.

Danny, they kind of want to quell that. They want it to like, we don't really want this drama. How do y'all kind of feel about that? Do you think that there should be more? Is that good? Or is that just not really like an organic way to grow the espoir?

Cuffy (01:09:37.668)
don't think you should actively look for drama in any regard in life. Is that what you mean? I'm all for trash talk and stuff like that. I think it's cool. I don't like being a part of a soft community or anything like that. I think it's fine if it happens, but actively pushing for that I think is kind of cringe.

Coach Mills (01:09:42.315)
Right, right, right, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Lyte (01:10:00.788)
Yeah, you shouldn't be like...

Captain Coach (01:10:01.262)
I'll say where the line is. I think what Sparks said was way over line. I think that was just totally classless, personally. I mean, I don't know the personal drama, but to me, that's too far. And if you want to take the scene seriously, people like that shouldn't have a voice. That's just my opinion. mean, obviously, back in the League of Legends days of esports, where we're following

a lot of the up and coming teams, you you talk about Dignitas and TSM and, you know, Hotshot GG with the, you know, Counter Logic. Those days were also the wild, wild west, but there was, it was, I would say it's like, I mean, there were toxic stuff. A lot of it was behind the scenes. was more playful, it more fun. It was more theatrical. I think when it gets too personal, that's when it really ceases to be good for the esport.

Coach Mills (01:10:35.306)
Shout out to the Toss, yeah.

Coach Mills (01:10:59.274)
I can also understand from Danny's perspective, like this is ultimately like a Marvel game. Like it's an eSport. Like we like to, we want to take it more seriously, but it's like, it's a Marvel eSport. Like you want it to be about the games. You don't really want it to be like devolve into like this. I don't know this, a lot of nonsense, I think.

Captain Coach (01:11:17.806)
I think, and maybe again, maybe it's just the changing of the times and maybe I'm just totally off base here, but I think if you're, the best content about your game is just people trash talking to each other, the content of the game's probably not that good.

Coach Mills (01:11:32.778)
Okay.

Lyte (01:11:34.421)
Yeah.

Captain Coach (01:11:35.33)
That's just my opinion, I might be wrong, know, maybe this is just the world we live in now, but that's kind of just how I feel, so... I've tried to shy away from that type of stuff, but it tends to find me, but... That's just kind of my view on it, but I'd be curious to hear you guys' takes, I mean...

Lyte (01:11:54.442)
I don't know. think it's like it's good and bad. It's like It can it can be perceived as like unprofessional for sure and can have like a bad light But it can also be good for community engagement and growth and stuff like that. I think it's like too complex like into situational and specific to like really have a strong opinion about and like

Captain Coach (01:12:11.992)
Tricky.

Coach Mills (01:12:15.112)
Makes sense, yeah. I can see that.

Cuffy (01:12:18.678)
I'm laughing because did any of you guys see that Mark Tease situation with me? Like did any of you guys see that?

Captain Coach (01:12:25.069)
Mm-mm.

Coach Mills (01:12:25.711)
I did see that situation with you. No, that was actually crazy. That was actually wild.

Cuffy (01:12:29.87)
what i did you yet a cop there so so in you know impure it's a made a video on what do you see saying like i don't listen to mark mark easy for captain america tips as a hook and then it was just a captain america guide and then like marked easy is like berating imp halfway through the video the video cuts

Lyte (01:12:30.341)
No. Who's is that the cap player?

Coach Mills (01:12:33.598)
The cap player, yeah.

Lyte (01:12:47.53)
Yeah.

Cuffy (01:12:55.638)
is on my page and he's like and for you, Cuffee, to repost this video I was like what did I do? And he's like as a brother you should be supporting me

Coach Mills (01:13:02.302)
No, he- he- he- no, he- Yeah, no, I saw that dude. He went in on you. And it got into some really weird areas, like, about, like, I don't even want to get- Yeah, it was about- was- it was like, yeah, like, like, like, like, like, was almost like a how dare you agree with this take that-

Captain Coach (01:13:03.692)
That's rage bait. That's rage bait.

Cuffy (01:13:12.716)
race? I yes, yes.

Captain Coach (01:13:15.123)
Whoa.

Cuffy (01:13:20.132)
agree with imp over me being a brother I'm like what is their British accent tax like what is going on like what is actually going on

Coach Mills (01:13:27.706)
I know it was very- I was- I like to follow up with all the- I was very- The stray you got was crazy, out of nowhere. Just because you agreed with- Just because you agreed with the conversa- Like, just- Like a take on the game. Like, that's just- That's very odd. Like,

Cuffy (01:13:35.47)
Anyways, yeah.

Captain Coach (01:13:44.14)
I think people try to be like that though, like super controversial and calling people out. I think that's a lot of people's strategy when it comes to making content.

Coach Mills (01:13:55.402)
I don't know him at all. To me it kind of just seemed like you guys feeling sad a little bit and he thinks of you as like a voice of authority, Cuffee. So just the fact that you would kind of side with someone that sides against him was like probably...

You know, yeah, it probably hurt a little bit, you know, like like let's say our video came out tomorrow that was like This coach Mills guys a fraud and he's ass and then you like retweeted or something and you're like, yeah value. Yeah, this guy's right I'll be like, I'm gonna fuck comfy. Hello, you know, like I'll be a little mad but yeah

Captain Coach (01:14:14.701)
I mean...

Captain Coach (01:14:22.744)
No. All the way. Well, the way I see it, if he's coming at you, he must respect your opinion enough to even think the need to do that. You know what I mean? That's kind of how I've always viewed people coming at me is, you care what I think, you know?

Coach Mills (01:14:36.36)
Yeah.

Cuffy (01:14:36.609)
Yeah.

Coach Mills (01:14:41.808)
At least on TikTok, I think you have the highest voice of authority, at least on Cuffee, as far as balance. Yeah. And the Eastward Sun.

Cuffy (01:14:48.022)
I in the e-sports scene, yeah, from e-sports players and stuff like that, but like my whole USP, like my whole thing is like, don't listen to content creators, listen to the pros, but it's like...

Coach Mills (01:14:57.642)
Yeah, yeah, there's only one other pro or one other pro coach. It's only like Kip's on TikTok, but he doesn't show his face. He doesn't show his face and his content is like cut. It could be better. It needs to be cut better. I'll give him some editing content tips. Hey Kip's hit me up if you want to make some better content. But, but yeah, like as far as like brand recognition and like trust, like I think you have the strongest as far as like, like pro scene professionalism on TikTok. So.

Captain Coach (01:15:00.334)
You

Cuffy (01:15:04.812)
yeah yeah kip says his content is quite good

Yeah

Cuffy (01:15:24.558)
Yeah.

Captain Coach (01:15:25.614)
What would be your comment to the critique that pro players, because I think this is a comment we also see a lot, don't have an accurate grasp on the game. I know you talked about Celestial, but real quick, just for most people, why should someone just playing the game, whatever, Casually and Gold, Silver, Bronze, Plat, listen to you over what's good for the game?

Cuffy (01:15:50.19)
But my perspective is we all started in bronze some people got out You know I mean like why wouldn't you listen to people that have literally been in the exact same situation as you and gotten out? be like

Captain Coach (01:15:59.662)
It's a great point.

Lyte (01:16:01.12)
Also, people who play the game for a living too, sort of cut you off, Cuffee, but like, if you go to the fucking NBA or whatever, and you ask LeBron James, like, you know, like, why are you gonna not listen to LeBron James about how to play basketball? I'm not saying that I'm LeBron James or that Cuffee's LeBron James, I'm just saying, it's like, you are playing at D2 high school level, why are you egoing what LeBron James or anyone in the NBA is saying? Yeah, it's...

Coach Mills (01:16:11.592)
Hehehehehe

Coach Mills (01:16:19.508)
it

Yeah bro, bro, you don't understand... You don't understand the YMCA games, bro. The meta is crazy at the YMCA, bro. You wouldn't understand, LeBron! You don't know shit! You're 6'7", LeBron, you don't understand.

Captain Coach (01:16:26.69)
be yeah, LeBron.

Lyte (01:16:29.318)
It's just like, it just makes like no sense.

Captain Coach (01:16:31.816)
You just don't get it, you just don't get it.

Lyte (01:16:33.728)
It's like, like that, that mentality is why the early season games are so insufferable. When they do the ranked reset and I have to play in lobbies and like my friends have the same issue too, where like, and I'll see it all over Twitter, you'll play in lobbies with like peak C3 or like they're like career GM players and they will tell you what to pick, what to ban, how to play the game. If you don't agree, they crash out and like freak out at you bro, like throw the game. It's crazy. Like, oh my God.

Coach Mills (01:16:58.076)
Yeah

Cuffy (01:16:58.624)
Now can you imagine my perspective being in like GM cell right now and people trying to talk to me about what's going on? like-

Captain Coach (01:16:59.211)
Bro.

Lyte (01:17:05.786)
Yeah, like, dude, it's just it's torture. It's just torture

Coach Mills (01:17:06.63)
I- yeah- oh-hohohoho

Captain Coach (01:17:06.987)
man.

Cuffy (01:17:12.612)
Right. It's horrible.

Captain Coach (01:17:13.064)
Honestly, the YMCA games the firm experience actually pretty fun that yeah GM not so much

Cuffy (01:17:20.676)
Terrible. Terrible.

Coach Mills (01:17:21.898)
That's awful.

Lyte (01:17:23.666)
No, like literally. no, I'm in. I don't know, that's why I always say my tier lists, like, they're always for high elo, they're like high elo ranked, they're not competitive, like based on competitive play, because it's like, gonna be the most amount of people. But I think everyone should do their tier list based on high elo because you can always get away with any character in low elo because no one is actually doing what they need to be doing to make the character weak or good, right?

Coach Mills (01:17:27.262)
So.

Lyte (01:17:51.358)
Like, metas don't actually exist in Loilo unless there's a character that's like so insanely easy to play that gets a ridiculous amount of value like Moira or something. Like if you overkitted Moira or overkitted Scarlet then it would be an issue but like most of the time it doesn't matter.

Coach Mills (01:18:02.847)
Moira was over-kitted, but we're not going to talk about that too much.

Cuffy (01:18:05.88)
But that's kind of what I say with my tier list. It's like, just assume that I'm looking at top players because the only difference between high elo and low elo is that you can play less in high elo in comparison to low elo. Low elo, just play anything bro, just play anything, get good at anything.

Lyte (01:18:06.324)
Yeah.

Captain Coach (01:18:06.392)
So.

Coach Mills (01:18:24.266)
Yeah, whatever you want. Legit whatever you want, yeah.

Captain Coach (01:18:25.75)
Right. Yeah, that's another great point. Well, this is a good time to ask this question then. Coach Mills got it down for us. Sorry, what does the perfect meta look like then? Because I would say the meta right now is somewhat diverse apart from a few like.

key characters, right, that we mentioned earlier. What is the perfect meta for this game look like? Are we close to it? Is it something that you think is possible to attain with the current balancing?

Coach Mills (01:18:55.724)
Like, yeah, if Elsa and Gambit got like hard nerf tomorrow along with like Tankpool, do you think the meta would just be like in a perfect state or would something new broken kind of rise and take its place?

Lyte (01:19:08.224)
actually don't know, Cuffee. I think Daredevil would be a problem still, for sure. I think Daredevil, Jean, and Psylocke would continue to be issues, but I think the bigger thing that they need to do is they need to... The tank balance is phenomenal, actually. This is the best the tank balance has ever been. All the tanks are good except for Penny. Now, if you look at support balance, it's better than it used to be. Take away Gambit, pull him down. Then we have Inviz, pull her down.

Cuffy (01:19:09.956)
It's

Cuffy (01:19:25.208)
facts yes yes

Lyte (01:19:36.202)
Then support balance is looking pretty good. Maybe take away Jeff's team up or nerf Jeff like a little bit. But other than that supports are fine. But DPS, bro, it's like, like you have so many characters that are right here, at least more than half the DPS rosters right here, and you have like six characters up here, bro. It's so bad, like Blade, Fanta, Iron Man, Moon Knight, Scarlet, Squirrel Girl, Black Widow, Hawkeye.

So on and so there's just so many bro like

Captain Coach (01:20:06.126)
I got a question for you then, and this is for either of you. What do you say about giving heroes, because when we had Bogor on I asked, would you ever buff Wanda? And he said, no, don't buff her. Just leave her bad. She's a low elo hero. What if you gave team ups to, what if you made the bad low elo DPS characters anchors to meta characters and the team ups were must have? Would that be a good?

Cuffy (01:20:30.702)
similar to MagSkala from Beta.

Lyte (01:20:31.36)
I mean, yeah. MagScarra, yeah. I mean, yeah. I think so, like, I always wondered how they thought about, like, their team-up, like, philosophy, like, how they actually go about what characters they put together. But, yeah. Yeah. I don't think, yeah, I don't think that they're actually... I'm not gonna say, I'm not gonna say that they're not smart enough to do it. I just don't think that they are, like, are actively thinking about, like, what characters can we bring up and, change the meta with certain team-ups, because

Captain Coach (01:20:33.794)
With the good direction or no?

Coach Mills (01:20:34.867)
Yes.

Coach Mills (01:20:41.354)
They just weren't cool as sh- They did Rogue Gambit because they're a couple Like they're not thinking about shit bro They're thinking about fuck all! I wish! I wish they were thinking!

Captain Coach (01:20:43.17)
I feel like they should do that more, and encourage...

Cuffy (01:20:47.812)
gonna to the

Captain Coach (01:20:48.207)
HAHAHAHA

Lyte (01:21:01.266)
If you look at the early season team ups versus the current ones now, by early season I mean like season zero, right? Like we had Gamma Iron Man, we had Double Z Rocket Punisher Bucky, we had Guardian Revival, we had Scarlet Mag. Like these team ups are super impactful and you would play entire comps around them and draft around them and they were like everything. Now we get like Adam Storm, fucking Phanta Rocket,

Captain Coach (01:21:15.682)
Give me a hint here. OK.

Coach Mills (01:21:26.343)
You

Captain Coach (01:21:27.502)
Ha

Cuffy (01:21:28.408)
In front of...

Lyte (01:21:30.13)
Emma Luna, like these team ups that are like Luna White, I mean Luna White Fox is like okay, but like I want the return of get this team up in the game, we win the game. Like let's draft around this, let's make it impactful, let's bring more characters that are traditionally weaker into the team up as well.

Captain Coach (01:21:31.276)
Luna White Fox. I think that one's okay. I like that one.

Coach Mills (01:21:34.718)
I like that one, but.

Captain Coach (01:21:45.486)
Yeah.

Coach Mills (01:21:46.28)
Yeah, it's crazy how like they put like Gambit and Mag on a team up together when I feel like perfect Yeah, perfect opportunity for them to like pair gambit Imagine if they paired gambit with like fucking squirrel girl and it was a broken ass team up or some shit

Cuffy (01:21:50.976)
and rogue and like

Lyte (01:21:51.005)
And yeah, I mean like, yeah.

Lyte (01:22:00.394)
Yeah. Yeah, it would-

Coach Mills (01:22:02.088)
And then you actually got to see Skrull go in like it maybe in pro play maybe maybe if if the team up is good enough. No. Well, you see what I'm saying? Like you get a D tier and you drag him into the I don't think that they they are balancing the game with team ups at all. Like I don't think they're even thinking about the balance of the game at all.

Captain Coach (01:22:03.022)
Cuffy (01:22:05.924)
don't know how good that would feel. I don't know how good that would feel.

Lyte (01:22:06.334)
Yeah, exactly.

Captain Coach (01:22:06.51)
Speaking? It's good. It's definitely good.

Lyte (01:22:18.452)
Nah.

Captain Coach (01:22:19.264)
Yeah, it's such a missed opportunity too, because I think it's actually a pretty good system. I actually like the idea of it.

Lyte (01:22:24.188)
It's definitely the most interesting, it's it's trademark as a hero shooter is what does Marvel Rivals have that Overwatch doesn't? Team ups.

Captain Coach (01:22:28.429)
Yeah.

Captain Coach (01:22:32.713)
And yeah, my favorite team up person, I'm curious what you guys think has been the best team up historically. Mine, just, I mean, obviously I'm a little biased, but the fastball one, I feel like is like the, what everything a team up should be, the Hulk, Thor, and Wolverine. It completely changes like how the game is played and what you have to worry about. And it's not just like a flat optimized like DPS boost, like, we'll just go this cause it'll give me more damage. And it's like, that's not really interesting. I mean,

Lyte (01:22:44.755)
Yeah, it's good.

Captain Coach (01:22:57.882)
I like things that change the way the game is played. So what's your favorite team up and or what would you like to see something that would be cool? really? Yeah, pull it up. Pull it up.

Lyte (01:23:04.596)
Let me check. I actually made a tier list like a couple weeks ago.

Coach Mills (01:23:07.594)
I think I kind of liked like when it first came out. I thought the flame NATO was really cool. Like just visually

Captain Coach (01:23:14.414)
That was cool.

Cuffy (01:23:14.553)
That was the first one that involved two ults, which was why it was so unique in my opinion, right? Because it was a team up that revolved around ults and then obviously they did it with Jeff Nader. I thought that was cool at the time, yeah.

Coach Mills (01:23:20.906)
Yeah, I think so.

Captain Coach (01:23:22.413)
Right.

Coach Mills (01:23:28.188)
Yeah, it took it in direction I didn't imagine.

Lyte (01:23:29.76)
I was kinda, it was kinda trash that like, Jeffnado was broken. Like, Jeffnado was, oh my god, broken when it first came out. No counter-reply, but. Okay, I made a tier list a couple weeks ago on like, all of the team-ups ever, and in my like, best team-ups of all time, I put Guardian Revival, and then under that was Penny Rocket, and then Gambit Rogue, and then Double Z.

Coach Mills (01:23:49.162)
Well, are like the most, you're saying those are the most broken, right? Like they're the most strong? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Lyte (01:23:52.264)
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Of all time, yeah.

Coach Mills (01:23:56.766)
Yeah, Garden Revival is kind of fucking nuts.

Lyte (01:23:58.004)
Penny rocket though for ranked. I was so close to putting penny rocket as number one. That was ridiculous. Like 60 % win rate, penny rocket, like double nest. my god. Dude, like...

Cuffy (01:24:03.139)
do.

Coach Mills (01:24:05.072)
it had like 60, it had 69 % at one point. I was watching that pic rate, it was fucking crazy, like, run rate.

Captain Coach (01:24:06.363)
you-

Captain Coach (01:24:10.242)
You mean the best for winning, not for what's good for the game? OK, gotcha, gotcha, gotcha.

Coach Mills (01:24:15.344)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, he's talking about more like winning. Yeah.

Lyte (01:24:16.34)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, like, yeah. No, that was just miserable to play into,

Coach Mills (01:24:22.428)
No, wait, y'all don't think that the best designed one of all time is Gamma Squid? Or what about Ice? Like, nah, I'm just fucking with y'all. I'm just fucking with y'all. The Squid ones are fucking... I'm glad that they moved Namor away from that. That's one of those silent changes that they did in Namor that I'm a big fan of. Now, I don't necessarily think I agree with the current balance data of Namor, but I'm glad he's not a team-up bot anymore to be viable. Because he was like that for a while.

Captain Coach (01:24:22.722)
Jeff Nato gone.

Lyte (01:24:28.148)
That's designed?

Lyte (01:24:46.356)
Yeah.

Captain Coach (01:24:48.814)
I think Namor just being able to one tap alts pretty reliably, feel like, is just such, like he can do it to Jeff, he's like cloak most of the time. Like I feel like, I mean, we could talk about Namor a little bit. Yeah, Punny, he's like, Namor is really good. And I think that is an example of balancing a character, like going towards the balanced direction that is overall like better for a hero, better for the game, just making, I mean, obviously I think he's a little over tuned, but like it's interesting because he,

Coach Mills (01:24:57.29)
funny.

Coach Mills (01:25:15.346)
I mean, mean, Namor looks hella balanced compared to fucking Elsa and Jean and all these bullshit characters. Yeah, like he looks...

Captain Coach (01:25:18.188)
Right, he's never... Yeah, he's never a character that really needed a team up to function super well, but he was always kind of mid without one. Now he's like, considered pretty meta. Do you guys want to give your thoughts on like, more like, how he's kind of functioning right now or?

Cuffy (01:25:33.988)
think he's strong to be honest. Yeah, I like no more.

Lyte (01:25:34.144)
Yeah good. Yeah, he's like right outside top 5 I think, Koffi. If I had to put...

Cuffy (01:25:38.808)
Yeah, and then on top of that with bands, like he is actually quite up there in terms of like

Lyte (01:25:43.198)
Yeah, I would say like like top 5 DPS or Elsa, Psylocke, Jean, Daredevil.

Am I missing one? No, no. Lord is very conditional and loses every neutral.

Captain Coach (01:25:52.526)
Star Lord? No?

Cuffy (01:25:57.924)
can't get my hair just stumbled on i would say so potentially

Lyte (01:26:00.69)
Maybe it is NaMOR, maybe NaMOR is 5.

Coach Mills (01:26:03.018)
Very good. One thing I want to see in the future for Rivals is I would like to see some more like maybe I just want to see more projectile DPS. I think Namor, I don't really consider, I mean he's kind of a projectile DPS. I don't know how you feel about this coffee, but he doesn't really play like one. Like he plays like a hitscan, like that's mostly.

Lyte (01:26:05.108)
Yeah.

Cuffy (01:26:22.552)
Well, I made a TikTok on this as well, like, He would cover a hitscan role, but he is obviously a Projectile character. Like, a lot of the times you'll hear me refer to Namor as a hitscan, but he's not. I'm just referring to, like, the role in which he occupies. Because Bucky is like a Cassidy, right? Like, from Overwatch, like, Bucky is like...

Coach Mills (01:26:31.464)
Right.

Lyte (01:26:39.636)
Same thing with Bucky.

Coach Mills (01:26:46.29)
Yeah, yeah, mean these characters are not really projectile DPS in the way that they play. And I want to see more like a character like Echo or a character like the new reworked Pharah or like Rocketman. What's the fucking bazooka guy from TF2? Soldier? No. No, not Demo. Demo is what would be considered one of them.

Cuffy (01:26:50.532)
Mm-hmm.

Cuffy (01:27:04.356)
That's a tamer. Was that a tamer?

Captain Coach (01:27:05.806)
think it is the soldier.

Coach Mills (01:27:09.916)
Is it soldier? Yeah, I've been forever since I played it. But yeah, he like does rocket jumps and he like rocket jumps up. Yeah. But like like more true. I'm kind of doing like fast moving like quite like Quake, like or do Marina or something along those lines. Like I want a true projectile DPS in this game and we just don't really have one right now, honestly. Besides, like Squirrel Girls like are only real projectile DPS, but like, come on.

Captain Coach (01:27:15.303)
don't how he talks, but

Cuffy (01:27:16.613)
Mmm.

Captain Coach (01:27:30.99)
They should just add a first person character.

Lyte (01:27:35.306)
Torch. What about Torch?

Cuffy (01:27:36.79)
Yeah, Twitch is good. Like, Galak is designed to be for.

Coach Mills (01:27:38.602)
He's not really a Project LDPS though. I feel like that character is, yeah, I mean, he's really just not, he's really not. They need to come out with some, but.

Lyte (01:27:47.914)
They need to do what Elsa and Jean with the torch bro. Just take them out back and get rid of them.

Coach Mills (01:27:51.622)
no, they're gonna they're gonna fucking just slightly nerf her and it does nothing for like six months and then you know, maybe she'll be I Mean they haven't even made gene like not s-tier since her launch. So like are we really expecting them to do that with Elsa? No, like they're not I Mean it took them forever to get us out of the Loki Luna meta. Yeah

Lyte (01:28:03.668)
Yeah. Yeah.

No, mean hell no. No. Like nobody is.

I'm just... Bro, I'm praying to everything that's good and pure that Black Cat is the most broken character they've ever put. Like I want this character, because I'm pretty sure she's a melee DPS, I want this hero to be more broken than Prime Torch and Prime Gene and Prime Elsa combined. Please. I want every hitscan... Yeah, I want all the Elsa and Hello players to be miserable. I want you all to suffer and just have no enjoyment of this game as long as Black Cat's in it.

Coach Mills (01:28:30.142)
Yeah, and then they're gonna hot fix their day one. They're gonna fuck

Coach Mills (01:28:38.867)
He

Coach Mills (01:28:43.56)
Yeah, I was talking with Light earlier, Cuffee, about how it feels like a lot of hitscan DPS, there's other options, like it's very hard to ban them all out, because there's a lot of similarities between them in the roles that they could play. But Daredevil kind of stands alone on an island for dive DPS. But if there was another character that was like Daredevil in strength, it would kind of...

Captain Coach (01:28:43.788)
Yeah, I mean...

Lyte (01:28:44.148)
But she'll probably be terrible, like let's keep it at 1000.

Cuffy (01:28:58.19)
Mm-hmm.

Cuffy (01:29:04.682)
Yeah.

Coach Mills (01:29:11.23)
be much harder to ban out, much harder to, like, it would kind of change the meta even more so. Cause right now there's like only one great dive DPS. I mean, side, but like, like Daredevil, like he's very unique. There's not like a hella gene Elsa.

Lyte (01:29:23.892)
Yeah.

Cuffy (01:29:24.034)
Yeah, as much as I like hate Daredevil, one thing that I like is the things that make him strong do not make him easier. Which has led to a lot of situations where lot of pro teams just straight up don't have a Daredevil player. Which has added to like more like nuance in roster building and stuff like that, which is pretty cool because it's like an actual advantage. The thing about these hitscans is they're incredibly easy. Like I

I don't understand how people think otherwise. Like it's literally hit your shot, get rewarded for it. We're in like a state of the game as well. We're like, yeah, zero risk. You can misplay, stand behind a tank and get value. It's ridiculous. And so with these melee DPS, the main reason why people don't play them is one, they're difficult. And two, you just don't even get value from like, learning, spending 300 hours on the character. You might not even be able to run it.

Lyte (01:30:01.908)
Zero risk too, zero risk.

Cuffy (01:30:22.562)
You know what mean? Like, consistently. It's just like, insane. Why would you invest 300 hours into anything that is not fun to play? You know what mean? Like, in a practical environment. Stump.

Captain Coach (01:30:28.408)
Yeah.

Captain Coach (01:30:34.656)
Yeah, Rivals is just about the only competitive game that I've played where the ranged characters do more damage than the melee characters in melee.

Lyte (01:30:44.042)
Yeah, not only do they do more damage in melee, they beat the melee characters in melee too.

Captain Coach (01:30:48.066)
Right. Which, like, I've been playing a little deadlock lately. come from mobo's man. That game is, that game gets it right. Like the melee attacks are the heavy hits and.

Coach Mills (01:30:48.202)
Right.

Lyte (01:30:52.895)
Yep.

Coach Mills (01:30:54.366)
Yeah.

Lyte (01:30:55.284)
Yeah, yeah, if you're playing Vendicta and you get pinned by Abrams you die. As it should work. Like if this is Rivals that Abram would get stunned before he ever reaches the target and get one shot.

Coach Mills (01:30:59.996)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, you're right.

Captain Coach (01:31:00.716)
Yes. Yes.

Captain Coach (01:31:06.35)
I'm not gonna lie, I'm little obsessed with that game right now. It's been a while since a good MOBA has come out, so I'm getting into it now. What's your way, do you play light? What's your main?

Lyte (01:31:09.546)
Hahaha.

Lyte (01:31:16.835)
Victor.

Captain Coach (01:31:17.87)
isn't he like terrible right now?

Lyte (01:31:19.904)
Oh, he's horrible. And I haven't played in like five months because they just keep nerfing Victor, so... Yeah. Yeah.

Cuffy (01:31:23.908)
i play sinkler think that now when i was and in the games and if i like i don't have

Captain Coach (01:31:24.904)
Okay, I'm on that shit of pipe train Sinclair, okay Yeah

Coach Mills (01:31:25.17)
nice, nice. Sinclair? Ooh, that actually makes sense, I can see that. Are you good at the game, Cuffee? Or like, are you high rank? We need to run some sometime. I'm trying to learn the game with some people.

Lyte (01:31:30.805)
Yeah.

Captain Coach (01:31:36.814)
Bro, I'm so down to run some Deadlock. Game is so fun. It's such a good MOBA. Coming from League, and then I played like four or five different MOBAs, like pretty hardcore. Like I played a couple of third-person ones. This is better than any third-person MOBA I've ever played, like shooter-aim type MOBA, and it's like not even close. those, games they're beating are ones that I was like hooked on. So I'm probably gonna be playing Deadlock for a while. I really liked the game.

Cuffy (01:31:39.662)
Yeah.

Coach Mills (01:32:02.538)
I'm losing Captain Coach to Deadlock

Captain Coach (01:32:05.558)
Nah, still a player. I love Hulk too much to quit, but it's so good. It's such a people. I heard enough recommendations for it. I'm like, yeah, I'll try it out finally. Yeah, you.

Cuffy (01:32:08.14)
Mm-hmm.

Coach Mills (01:32:15.018)
I've been trying get you to play that game forever and I knew you I knew you'd like it I mean it just makes sense like yeah League of Legends background it just makes sense Okay well one of the big questions I wanted to ask y'all I just remembered about the map thing we'll get to that in a second the fucking map ultrutch thing but I wanted to ask y'all how do you feel about the future of Rivals like are you feeling like this is to the pro scene and the state of the game like do you think the game's in a good direction do you think the pro scene's in a good direction like

Captain Coach (01:32:20.995)
Yeah.

Coach Mills (01:32:43.516)
for the next year or two how do you feel about you know coffee i'll go you first i feel about the future of the game in the competitive scene

Cuffy (01:32:52.054)
Yeah, and this might be a crazy take, like, as much as I like to flame the devs, but like really creative decisions,

Coach Mills (01:33:02.004)
I like how you put that. I like how you put that. That's good.

Lyte (01:33:02.366)
Hahaha!

You

Cuffy (01:33:07.215)
But like, in a weird way, like, I do feel more listened to by NetEase than Blizzard ever made me feel. So like, I-

Coach Mills (01:33:16.33)
Oh yeah, 100 % 100 % No, no lie. We had the same combo last time bro. Blizz- I- I'm sorry. Blizz- Blizzard?

Captain Coach (01:33:18.126)
100 %

Cuffy (01:33:21.642)
I is.

Lyte (01:33:21.844)
I don't know man, maybe I'm just...

Captain Coach (01:33:24.461)
now.

Cuffy (01:33:25.91)
I... I sat through...

Captain Coach (01:33:26.99)
I had Blizzard in other games too. I've had the suffer through Blizzard and WoW and stuff. Imagine going nine months without a competitive update. That was WoW Arena.

Lyte (01:33:31.796)
Okay, but Blizzard's locked in now, but does that matter? Probably not.

Cuffy (01:33:31.908)
Yeah, I mean

Coach Mills (01:33:33.834)
Mean I mean I mean that's cool. That's that's cool. That's cool They're locked in eventually, but they're locked in cuz rivals slapped him in the fucking face when it came out like it was a wake-up call And you know I mean it's I think it's for the best it's for the best like like everything happened first

Lyte (01:33:38.706)
Yeah.

Lyte (01:33:43.088)
Yeah, true. True. Yeah.

Cuffy (01:33:45.293)
Mm-hmm.

Cuffy (01:33:49.648)
Yeah, I think there's been a lot of things from the start of the game that they have fixed. I don't know what comes to mind, but in general, like even if you're talking about Justice Patch, like that was a severe issue. Obviously, they created the issue themselves by introducing Gambit with the ultrarch and stuff like that, but they fixed it. They fixed it fast. So I do think if they keep doing what they're doing, the game is getting better. Still runs horribly, I will say.

Coach Mills (01:34:17.962)
Woo!

Lyte (01:34:18.24)
Horribly, or guys I haven't gotten server like though in like weeks, which is great

Cuffy (01:34:18.51)
That game is not...

Captain Coach (01:34:18.826)
Yeah. Yeah.

Coach Mills (01:34:23.132)
Okay, actually, I haven't actually had Godlag either. That's good, yeah.

Captain Coach (01:34:23.566)
No. It usually happens at the start of every new patch, I think because they're adding new models, new textures, new... Then they eventually optimize it. Yeah, Shin Shibuya haven't really been lagging either. Oh, did we want to talk about that map before we close out? Sorry, I mean, we're talking about the scene through the walls. We never actually touched on that map. Yeah, but...

Lyte (01:34:25.984)
Thank God.

Coach Mills (01:34:29.628)
Yeah, especially them bringing back the new map or the old map or whatever. Yeah.

Cuffy (01:34:36.58)
Mm-hmm.

Coach Mills (01:34:44.068)
yeah, yeah, we never talked about that fucking map with the wall hacks. Creative changes guys, right? Or... yeah, huh huh.

Lyte (01:34:51.198)
Yeah, creative is a word for it, Yeah, creative.

Captain Coach (01:34:53.516)
This is our one today,

Coach Mills (01:34:54.652)
Yeah.

Cuffy (01:34:56.632)
I really just don't understand why they did that. You know, like, just drop the map without the random scan and see through walls and also ult charge. Like, what actually was the point of adding that to that map?

Coach Mills (01:34:59.323)
No.

Coach Mills (01:35:08.33)
It's uh, is it like supposed to be like a police scanner? I don't even understand what it is.

Cuffy (01:35:12.036)
I think so?

Lyte (01:35:12.68)
I don't know, I can't tell what the bot's saying.

Captain Coach (01:35:12.782)
That first checkpoint, I feel like you pretty much just have to portal, right? That is so hard to aggress on when you're on offense for that map.

Coach Mills (01:35:15.354)
I- it is...

Cuffy (01:35:25.484)
The choke is really small but actually there's a wall to the right side of the choke that is breakable that opens up the entire right side lane. There's boxes, random boxes stacked in the shape of stairs and that is like a way that you kind of know it's breakable.

Lyte (01:35:32.5)
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Captain Coach (01:35:32.974)
did not know that.

Lyte (01:35:41.248)
Yeah, I actually don't even hate the map that much. I think the map is fine. It's just that scanner is like creative.

Coach Mills (01:35:41.552)
Yeah, that's...

Captain Coach (01:35:43.008)
Okay.

Cuffy (01:35:46.884)
Yeah

Captain Coach (01:35:47.712)
Yeah, well I guess I just wasn't being creative enough to break down that wall there. I wasn't thinking about that.

Coach Mills (01:35:51.122)
Yeah, it makes me wonder they're willing to do fucking anything with the like the new map unique feature Are we gonna get like random fucking fireballs raining down random damage on the map lightning bullshit? Yeah

Cuffy (01:36:01.028)
But the black pamper convergence.

Lyte (01:36:01.056)
It's like, it's like you're playing, we're playing a smash, we're playing smash with no items, no stage things and then they just start throwing in the smash balls. It's like, okay.

Captain Coach (01:36:02.67)
No, no, no, no,

Captain Coach (01:36:07.335)
Hahaha!

I was gonna say, give me a map with no ults. But everyone has buff damage and healing.

Coach Mills (01:36:16.318)
No, that's that's the thing is like for for every people every person that's to cause this game Uncompetitive they could really go fucking Crazy like like like smash like like there could be items on the ground that you pick up and throw like there could be some bullshit like all over I hope that this is not the beginning of that to be honest with you, but

Captain Coach (01:36:23.138)
Yeah.

Lyte (01:36:26.014)
be worse.

Captain Coach (01:36:37.166)
Or maybe maybe we do want to be careful what you wish we might want that actually, you know I I don't know be personally like we talked about the game's future and like the viability of like the pro scene I I personally Prefer like other eSports and I hope that can come out come out as too harsh I just for me personally, I think it's like hero shooters in general are like

not as easy on the viewer as maybe something like a MOBA where it's like top down, everything's very clear. So I think like just from that point of view competitively, I'd be curious to hear your guys' thoughts, but like, I would think of like ways that you could make the game more watchable. And to me it's like big sweeping, like cool things happening to like all the cool Marvel heroes. you know, so maybe something like that, like we just, chaos mode might be good. It might be good.

Coach Mills (01:37:15.879)
Let me pick.

Coach Mills (01:37:22.409)
I mean.

Coach Mills (01:37:26.312)
I want to be able to pick who I watch in esports, that would be great. I just want the light POV if they're playing dive. I don't want the random... They're jumping to a random other random moment. Or every time Tankpool pops ult and it's just not on... The camera's not on Tankpool. I'm just like, what the fuck? I can't even see what's going on here.

Captain Coach (01:37:30.071)
Yeah

Captain Coach (01:37:38.358)
Yeah, that might be it.

Captain Coach (01:37:47.802)
I'm pretty sure League had that. I think it was a paid service. I might be wrong on that board that you could actually like, right. Yeah, it's.

Lyte (01:37:52.542)
Overwatch had that with Twitch.

Coach Mills (01:37:53.5)
Yeah, yeah, and it was the best to be able to do that. Because people want to be able to learn. I think the educational value of it is high.

Cuffy (01:37:56.036)
Mm.

Lyte (01:37:56.384)
It was awesome. Yeah, it was awesome.

Captain Coach (01:38:02.621)
Do you think having all the viewers spread out is good for the psychology around it? Because I know that's something that gets brought up is just the viewer count. And if you're not hitting a certain amount, people will psychologically just think you're esports dead in the water. But I noticed with Marvel, there's a lot of different stuff happening at all times, which I actually appreciate. Because there's always something to watch. I don't watch a ton, but I do. If I see a comp or a hero I really like, I'll tune in to imagine people. like, yo, coach, you see

whatever, Monster playing holocaust. Yeah, I'll go check that out. That looks cool. But for me, that's kind of like my relationship with the e-sport currently. Maybe that'll change as the game evolves. But I do think it's something worth talking about. Because at the end of the day, it's got to be entertaining. And maybe like a chaos type, it's good.

Coach Mills (01:38:53.064)
I mean, kinda every esport is running into these visibility issues. Like Valorant has the same bullshit when there's like an Astral Wall. I know y'all don't really play Valorant, but it's basically like a giant wall you can't see through half the screen and there's smokes everywhere and there's flashes and like no one can see anything and it's very hard to cast. Overwatch ran into the same problem. It's kinda just like one of those things where it's like, you watch it enough, you kinda understand the chaos.

Cuffy (01:39:04.0)
Yeah.

Captain Coach (01:39:11.308)
Yeah. Deadpool.

Coach Mills (01:39:17.47)
We're not gonna get less visual clarity or less. We're not gonna get more visual clarity. It's not gonna happen. We're gonna get less. As time goes on, it's just like.

Captain Coach (01:39:18.414)
Fair.

Cuffy (01:39:22.884)
Yeah, I do think that that's the biggest barrier. A game like, I don't know, Siege or CSGO, you don't need to play the game to get what's going on. You could actually click on your first ever Siege or CSGO video and it be a pro game and you can be like, this is pretty cool. But like, I mean, even just before I hopped on this call, my real life friends were like,

Captain Coach (01:39:24.547)
Yeah.

Captain Coach (01:39:37.091)
Yeah.

Cuffy (01:39:49.952)
looking at me play Rivals and then they were like how do you like see and I'm like...

Captain Coach (01:39:55.777)
And it's.

Coach Mills (01:39:57.32)
Because here's my theory about the game. I don't really think it matters how many people watch the game because like live because I watch a lot of the NBA. Like I really like watching basketball. And for a lot of people, the NBA is a clip sport, meaning like they don't actually really watch the games. They watch clips and highlights and viral moments from the games in post and those go viral. And it's like

Cuffy (01:40:10.372)
Mm-hmm.

Coach Mills (01:40:25.256)
The actual viewership of the games don't matter. Like I like to watch the games themselves, but like that most people don't engage with NBA content in that way in the same way that like you could still get the 5k like the daredevil 5k or whatever and make that a clip that is featured and goes viral without

necessarily people having to watch everything unless the people that are like really passionate about it. Like, I think that that's just kind of the way that like eSports as a whole is moving. Back then there was no like when CS was popping off like eSports wise, like there was no TikTok and short form wasn't a big thing. Like clips didn't matter as much as they do now. Like eSports, like it's just going to be consumed in a different way in my opinion going forward.

Captain Coach (01:41:06.882)
Yeah, that's a good take. I guess very interesting. I never thought of that, like the clips for, because I feel like you compare it something like maybe like NFL football, is an hour of game and then three hours, or sorry, an hour of game and then two hours of commercials is really, and timeouts and stuff is, like NFL is played at max intensity all the time. And that's why I think people stick around for like a full game of that is.

Coach Mills (01:41:23.452)
yeah?

Captain Coach (01:41:32.978)
I don't know how much NFL you guys watch, but it's very intense. yeah, something might not happen each play. Then 40 seconds will tick off the clock. But you know they're playing at 100 % every NFL player. It's most injured sport. So you loop this back to Rivals, man. The game is like perma. It's just like perma team fighting. And there's not a lot of plays where it's like CS, where you're peeking a corner, and it's just like that 1v1, that intense moment.

And I don't know, maybe there's like a game mode or something. I've never been a fan of the convoy personally. Again, maybe I'm not like a true hero shooter fan. I think there's more opportunities to do cooler things with the game. Something that's thrown around with me in my chat was just like maybe like a capture the flag type mode with all the crazy mobility in the game. I don't know, maybe that would be like good for pro, but.

Thoughts on like other types of game modes and stuff to maybe break up the cadence of just like the, cause it really, it's exhausting sometimes I think as a viewer. But again, maybe this is water in the, it doesn't matter.

Cuffy (01:42:44.78)
I think, I think maybe, yeah, yeah, yeah, I think one or two game modes can't hurt necessarily, I don't know, I mean, from competing in Overwatch, when Overwatch introduced more game modes than scores to win in official, it got really awkward because two different game mode types counted as like one map, so if you played like one game mode, you then couldn't take them to

Captain Coach (01:42:46.006)
Something I think about though.

Cuffy (01:43:13.335)
another game mode because they're in the same slot and it's like that got really complicated that was my description of it and I literally competed in the esports you know what mean like I can't even tell you the specifics of what maps clashed or anything like that it was over a year ago but still like that so I guess like different competitions have best of three and best of five I think that's chill five game modes is fine because at least then if it goes to a map five it's one of every single game mode

Captain Coach (01:43:16.695)
Right.

Captain Coach (01:43:24.366)
sure.

Cuffy (01:43:43.35)
Right now our best of 5s go straight back to domination, you know what mean, and then starts to cycle again. But right now the amount of game modes is best suited for a Bo3 because it's like 3 maps, first the 2. At least then even if it's a map 3 you're gonna get unique game modes every single time.

Captain Coach (01:44:02.454)
Right. I mean, I've heard a lot of people, they don't even want domination in the game. Something I hear a lot. I personally think it's cool. I think it's different and it forces a different type of fighting, which I think is, again, good. But yeah, maybe from the average viewer, you're just seeing all the different game modes. Yeah, maybe it's just too much.

Lyte (01:44:24.16)
think the game is like as far as esports is concerned they've done a really really good job this season so far with Ignite like this esports tab that they have in where you can go and watch the stream you can see the rosters they need to fix the stats of course but they even have like a little portion where can see each players DPI in their mouse which is really cool like all of that being in client is really revolutionary and I don't think I don't think overwatch has that does it correct me if I'm wrong but yeah no I don't think

Cuffy (01:44:35.641)
Yes.

Coach Mills (01:44:37.204)
That's great.

Captain Coach (01:44:43.442)
wow. That is cool.

Coach Mills (01:44:47.284)
Very awesome. Very, very cool. No, not 100 % no.

Cuffy (01:44:50.657)
No. No.

Lyte (01:44:53.138)
As far as I know, there's not a lot of games that have gone to the degree that Rivals has to implement that. Yeah, exactly. So I think that that's really, really good and give them credit where credit's due. just think the lack of viewership comes from the game not being balanced well, the matchmaker being horrible. I think the matchmaker is the number one thing that needs to change for everyone. Balance is something that is up for debate. Everyone's gonna have their opinions on balance, but I think it's universally agreed.

Coach Mills (01:44:55.895)
I I was watching pro matches while I was in queue. It was great. It was sick.

Lyte (01:45:20.178)
It doesn't really matter if EOMM is real or not because it feels like it's real and the game is just terrible. That's the bottom line. The games feel horrible. I don't care if you call it EOMM or whatever your bookie man word is for it, but the bottom line is I've never heard anyone say anything positive about the quality of the games. They just need to fix it. So if they do that, and if they fix the balance, in my opinion, the horrible balance of course.

you're already going to naturally have way more players. And then the third thing that think a lot of people don't really talk about is they need to actually start adding their heavy hitters, No one cares about Elsa Bloodstone, no one cares about WhiteFox, no one cares about Black Cat, bro. Get the big, big MCU characters in there,

Captain Coach (01:45:57.358)
Yeah.

Alright.

Captain Coach (01:46:03.242)
Some people care about white fox. They care about it a lot actually. I got to do a game with four lords on the third day she was out.

Lyte (01:46:06.674)
Ok, I mean that's because they like playing the character. That's great I'm happy that people have fun with the hero, but I'm talking about like like look at Deadpool's Look at Deadpool's release massive like that like one of the biggest spikes is the game even came out like I'm sure we're gonna get dr. Doom at some point eventually to it is gonna be same thing but

Coach Mills (01:46:07.274)
Yeah, but now getting getting people out yeah

Coach Mills (01:46:22.722)
It's probably like, they're probably struggling with, like they probably want to create more Jeff the Sharks and Lotus Snows. Cause like those characters are huge now, you know, and they were, they were not huge before Rivals, but they need to find that balance. You know, we still need more bangers. Like I want Thanos in the fucking game and like I want, there's so many big characters to pull from, a hundred percent.

Lyte (01:46:39.668)
Yeah.

Yeah, like the X-Men, Nightcrawler would be huge. Professor X, I think, is a massive, massive missing character as well that they haven't added yet.

Cuffy (01:46:46.851)
Yeah.

Captain Coach (01:46:51.758)
They should make Professor X a shield tank, dude, I'm telling you. That'd be so sick. Yeah, like just... Yeah, probably. He will be.

Coach Mills (01:46:52.318)
Cyclops, yeah.

Lyte (01:46:56.53)
Yeah, mean Cyclops too

Coach Mills (01:46:57.407)
with a mental, like a mental... They'll probably make him a support, I think. You could easily make him a support.

Lyte (01:47:03.688)
Or like, there's a ton of Spider-Man villains that could do that people are talking about as well. Obviously I might be biased, but I think it would be so cool to have Doc Ock or Sandman. Yeah. Yeah, I think people would like... There's a lot of people who are just fans of the Marvel IP that don't necessarily play rivals or video games that much, especially like older generation. And you would just bring so much more interest into the game if you just started adding more popular characters. It's just that simple.

Captain Coach (01:47:07.257)
yeah.

Cuffy (01:47:07.758)
Yeah, it's true.

Coach Mills (01:47:08.56)
Or how about a whole bunch of Spider-Men bro? Give me Miles Morales, me Gwen Stacy, give me Miguel O'Hara

Captain Coach (01:47:13.059)
Sure.

Coach Mills (01:47:31.646)
And I'm

Captain Coach (01:47:31.884)
Make Iron Man OP.

Lyte (01:47:33.352)
And then if you add it, like you bring it to where everybody comes back to the game, guys they added Thanos, boys let's get on the game, let's six stack. Like bring back six stacking for all the way up to eternity, maybe celestial. Let's you queue with your boys, let's you queue with your boys, fix the match quality so it's not coin flip, and the game is gonna blow up. Like it's that simple.

Captain Coach (01:47:40.846)
they preach, dude. They have.

Coach Mills (01:47:42.537)
Yeah.

Captain Coach (01:47:50.754)
They gotta bring back stacking, I totally agree.

Coach Mills (01:47:50.794)
I'm not gonna lie if if they ever wanted to they could go crazy with drops like on ignite like they give away a skin but like they could give away like imagine if they gave away like $5 worth of fucking skin credits or some shit if you watch for three hours like You're getting 50k people minimum like watching that shit. Like people are farming that shit. So coffee to kind of close things out and I want to ask you about but let me start with you coffee

Lyte (01:47:57.567)
Yeah.

Captain Coach (01:48:04.942)
Mmm.

Cuffy (01:48:11.044)
Yeah, sure.

Coach Mills (01:48:17.514)
One ability, ultimate, or mechanic from a different game that you want to see in Rivals that you think would enhance the experience of the game for a new future character, what would that be? I know that's a big question. Yeah, that's a lot. There's a lot of them. We can give you time to think if... I'll give my answer while you're thinking. My answer was Octane's Jump Pack. I would love...

Cuffy (01:48:31.138)
Wow, that is such...

Cuffy (01:48:37.016)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Coach Mills (01:48:46.3)
a jump pad that you could place that could get everyone the high ground. But enemies could use it too. Like it's like a deployable that both teams could use it. There's also like, Halo has something similar where you throw it on the ground and you can kind of float up, but this one would be like more like of a bounce.

Captain Coach (01:48:55.095)
Ooh.

Cuffy (01:49:01.432)
Yeah.

Captain Coach (01:49:02.7)
I got one too, you stall for time a bit more. How about just like mana? The idea of having mana, having a limited resource bar for your healing. I would totally be more interested. That's cause that's more, wouldn't that-

Coach Mills (01:49:14.435)
oooo

Captain Coach (01:49:19.971)
that'd be, yeah, ability-based support, purely ability-based support could also be.

Coach Mills (01:49:25.406)
What was the name of your discord again? It was like something. no, I was thinking of the manna, the manna one, the magician one. Merlin, Order of Merlin. But like, what is the closest like spellcaster character in the Marvel universe? I'm trying to even think, but that would be that would be mad interesting.

Lyte (01:49:28.82)
Discord for winners.

Lyte (01:49:34.875)
Merlin. Yeah.

Lyte (01:49:42.336)
Scarlet Witch, Agatha, Doctor Strange, Wong, Doctor Doom.

Coach Mills (01:49:46.979)
yeah yeah yeah. yeah they could do, they could do a lot.

Captain Coach (01:49:50.606)
Oh, Domino would be cool too, just like a luck, like an RNG. RNG. Power falls as she walks, like right on the enemy team, like, know, just bad.

Coach Mills (01:49:53.13)
Look I love the bar it would be I'll imagine imagine Imagine she has a bar that like as the bar goes up her luck gets better and she legitimately can dodge things that hit her

Lyte (01:49:54.903)
no, that would be corny bro, like my god.

Lyte (01:50:06.184)
I don't want anymore upgrade instinct characters, I'm good.

Captain Coach (01:50:06.292)
Unlock bar.

No, you the luck is you just get better teammates you get to you get to support bands every time

Coach Mills (01:50:16.394)
No, that would be crazy. Selecting this character affects your odds of getting better teammates. Holy shit.

Lyte (01:50:16.576)
You get better match quality.

Cuffy (01:50:17.934)
That would be nice. That would be very nice.

Captain Coach (01:50:25.87)
That's crazy.

Cuffy (01:50:27.744)
Yeah, nah, so I'm thinking about this question and like, to be honest, I'm gonna waffle to stall myself some more time, but like, yeah, I'm thinking, trying to stay away from like, eSports, least like typical hero shooters, so like I'm not really thinking in the direction of Overwatch, random, random shout, but do you remember when Steve came to Smash Bros? And then obviously there was like,

Captain Coach (01:50:55.566)
bro. I hate him.

Lyte (01:50:56.756)
most broken character like ever.

Cuffy (01:50:57.388)
crafting table mechanics and stuff like that. That was like really really unique and I was also thinking about the content. Yeah for sure.

Captain Coach (01:51:04.256)
It was creative for sure.

Coach Mills (01:51:08.488)
Man, Smash gives me a ton of ideas. I'm not gonna lie, I'm going back to random bullshit. I think Mr. Game and Watch is RNG done right. I think he's like one of the only examples of RNG done right. Cause it's like, I don't know if you know what that does. I don't even know what he does. don't even know.

Cuffy (01:51:11.621)
Yeah.

Captain Coach (01:51:19.734)
Mm-mm.

Lyte (01:51:20.968)
El to Wurbaloigi.

Captain Coach (01:51:23.422)
That one's side where it's head like one this far right.

Lyte (01:51:25.979)
What's that called? A misfire. misfire. Yeah. So Luigi has his side B. He charges himself and he headbutts you. But there's a 1 in 10 chance that it will get a super empowered version where he'll go super fast. He'll hit you for like four times the damage. And it's an instant kill if you're above a certain percentage. But it's also super punishable and super slow. So if you don't misfire, you just use it. You just kill yourself. So it's like...

Coach Mills (01:51:43.4)
Jesus fucking Christ.

Captain Coach (01:51:45.4)
blow you off the map.

Captain Coach (01:51:53.678)
Captain America has on with his knee that if you hit it's like the sweet spot and he'll go cook. Yeah, did I say Captain America? Captain Falcon, that's my main Falcon, so.

Lyte (01:51:58.258)
Falcon? Yeah. You said Captain America,

Coach Mills (01:51:59.818)
I also want something like Jigglypuff's Rest. Like I want something that if I miss it, I'm fucking dead. But if I hit it, you're dead. Or maybe you're dead, but I'm asleep. I don't know. I like that too.

Cuffy (01:52:00.899)
Yeah.

Captain Coach (01:52:13.558)
I'm we interrupted you, Kuffie. What were you saying?

Cuffy (01:52:16.438)
No, I mean like that's sort of the direction, the Smash Bros sort of direction. I'm also thinking if you could... Yeah, or like... Surely, like I'm a big fan of like the Borderlands games. There's surely something from a skill tree somewhere that is like a really, really nice concept, but nothing was coming off the top.

Coach Mills (01:52:21.876)
That's interesting. That's interesting. Go that direction.

Captain Coach (01:52:31.374)
Coach Mills (01:52:33.834)
oooo

Lyte (01:52:37.824)
We're trying to think of like an ability to add the rivals that isn't in it.

Coach Mills (01:52:41.096)
Yeah, yeah, from other games. Yeah, or Ultimate. Like just some effect that like, because I think that there's a lot of places they haven't gone. Like there's definitely a lot of places they haven't gone.

Cuffy (01:52:41.347)
Yes.

Lyte (01:52:44.448)
Hmm.

Captain Coach (01:52:48.546)
They don't have a fear mechanic to my knowledge. I don't think they have a fear, which is like your character runs away uncontrollably.

Lyte (01:52:58.304)
Yo, this game needs a disarm. That's what it needs. It needs a disarm. Like Moe and Krill. It turns your gun off. my god, please. Give that... Give that to a tank. Yup.

Coach Mills (01:52:58.346)
Captain Coach (01:53:01.511)
Ooh, disarmed.

Coach Mills (01:53:03.866)
okay. Yeah, so that would actually be crazy.

Captain Coach (01:53:06.734)
But actually, that's a great idea. tank, yeah, like that. Great idea. yeah, for sure this game needs a disarm now. Now I'm thinking...

Coach Mills (01:53:13.286)
Alright, yeah, yeah. Yeah, me a tank that can fly and has a defense matrix. Yeah, I think about that a lot. I'm just kidding, I'm kidding. Yeah, that would be sick. There's so many cool effects that they could add in this game. I'm very interested in how Deadpool basically was nothing like I imagined him to be, but not in a bad way. I really like it when they kind of completely break my expectations of what a character can be.

Lyte (01:53:40.778)
Yeah, Deadpool's sick.

Coach Mills (01:53:41.96)
Yeah, and I hope they do that more.

Cuffy (01:53:42.628)
I love it.

Captain Coach (01:53:43.182)
Someone told me Cyclops is going to be a tank because he just laser zapped any bullets coming in. like,

Lyte (01:53:48.508)
Nah. He'll be... Like bro, I swear on everything he's gonna be a DPS and he's gonna have B-bubble. There's no way he doesn't have B-bubble. There's no way he doesn't have B-bubble. No, he'll be a DPS. There's no way he's not a DPS either,

Coach Mills (01:53:49.994)
I'm telling you, support bro.

I'm telling you I want him to be a support bro. I want I want to I want a bard I want a bard like a like a commanding give me a commanding shout like a support that actually like buffs the buffs the team speed damage You know ult char like like they have different shout like a bard like like like a bard from League of Legends or

Captain Coach (01:53:55.478)
Yeah, and I...

Cuffy (01:53:56.334)
Yeah. Yeah.

Captain Coach (01:53:59.534)
I agree.

Captain Coach (01:54:06.829)
Hmm.

Captain Coach (01:54:16.238)
So like another mantis.

Coach Mills (01:54:19.368)
Well, not just damage though, like not just damage and heals, like maybe movement speed could be one of them or maybe you give them, you know, a...

Captain Coach (01:54:21.976)
Yeah.

Captain Coach (01:54:27.372)
more ammo or something like rocket could have some, you know.

Cuffy (01:54:28.622)
What's your opinion of like a sim or like a wraith tp or something like that? That's like not like a... Something that's not like a strange tp but something that can actively transport people that are lower mobility mid fight.

Coach Mills (01:54:45.226)
I actually like that. I actually like that shit. On ability would be really cool. You know, not that we can use kind of often and reposition. It'd be really cool.

Captain Coach (01:54:46.572)
Love that. Yeah.

Cuffy (01:54:53.666)
Yeah, I think Dorman is so cool. Dorman from- it's so cool. I think that character is so cool.

Captain Coach (01:54:56.347)
I love Dora Dora man is my number two

Lyte (01:54:56.53)
No, no, no, no, doorman, no, no, no, no, no, No, we don't need more characters like Angela. Doorman would just be Angela, bro. Like he just, he orbits around his team and then he just shuts you down from doing everything. It's boring. Like no one wants doorman, bro.

Coach Mills (01:54:57.802)
No, I actually like dormant a lot too, bro

Cuffy (01:55:05.037)
haha

Coach Mills (01:55:11.028)
But wouldn't it be so sick? Wouldn't it be so sick to know that Luna is like 10-0 and you're like, alright, you're in the fucking Shadow Realm. And now they don't have a win condition.

Lyte (01:55:18.208)
I mean, think a mechanic like that, yeah, like a Mordekaiser ult or an Iso ult from Valorant where you put yourself in a 1v1 with this character, that would be cool. I think it would be problematic, but it would be cool. But not Doorman. Doorman's is uninteractive. He just point and click and you have no chance. At least with Iso and Mord, you're at a disadvantage, but you could still win. It's not completely over.

Cuffy (01:55:24.803)
Yes.

Coach Mills (01:55:31.612)
It'd be so good. It'd be so busted.

Coach Mills (01:55:42.92)
I mean, hey, you do it, you just get counter spell bro, just counter it, easy. In deadlock. That's actually true.

Lyte (01:55:48.138)
Yeah, let me get counterspelling rivals for dormant. Like, no.

Captain Coach (01:55:50.862)
I was, mean, this may seem basic, but I'm like new to the game. So it's really amusing to me. had a doorman on my team actually earlier today who I guess leveled up his door so much and had so much like a spell power or whatever. I don't even know what it's Yeah. The greater expand mystic expansion. He put a door in his spawn and then he would push people through another door, like way out in the map and he'd just each spawn killed like at least. Yeah, dude. I that's insane.

Lyte (01:56:05.309)
Expansion.

Yeah.

Lyte (01:56:15.634)
Yeah, and puts you at the spawn. Cornball. Cornball.

Captain Coach (01:56:20.128)
Insane mechanic. I've never like that's so broken.

Lyte (01:56:22.868)
Yeah, like his kit is so cool because it like all interacts with each other and loops together like if you get a door set up under a walker in your base and you ult someone, the ult stuns them and you can perfectly time your cart to push them through the door to go to the other side of the map and then you follow them through and close the door. Like it's cool, but is it fun? No, because the ult took no skill.

Coach Mills (01:56:42.728)
It's fun for the doorman. That's pretty much it, yeah.

Lyte (01:56:45.008)
Yeah. Especially if you use Vortex Web as well. Like, alright, like, I guess, bro.

Captain Coach (01:56:46.484)
man.

Captain Coach (01:56:51.896)
I don't know if this is showing, this is my doorman game. I'm getting into it.

Coach Mills (01:56:58.601)
is that you like, you're like it, you're playing doorman. I didn't know you were playing doorman. let's go.

Captain Coach (01:57:01.432)
Yeah, dude, top damage. Well, I saw him do that. I'm like, got to play this character. Top damage on Dormin. We're doing it, boys. We're doing it. Yeah, I'll probably stream. Anyway, great pod, boys.

Coach Mills (01:57:05.063)
shit.

Wait, are you streaming after this, CaptainKetch? You're probably streaming, right? gotcha. But yeah. Yeah, I know. That's pretty much all the questions I had. Is there any closing thoughts you want to have about the game?

Lyte (01:57:20.554)
Yeah, I want to know what's y'all's thoughts are of Season 7 as a whole compared to the rest of the previous seasons. In my opinion, the game started off up here and it's been slowly declining in quality, but I think we stopped the bleeding with Season 7. And the 20 % ult nerf was really good and we actually saw some nerfs to Gambit and else even though they weren't enough and they're still broken. But at least the game stopped sinking, right? We're still drowning right now, but we're not seeking any further.

Coach Mills (01:57:35.956)
percent.

Coach Mills (01:57:47.592)
Yeah, mean, mean season see all of season six all of season six was terrible. It was like so unenjoyable. was insane. And season seven did a 180 on that, which is like that's a big dub. OK. I mean, I mean, it's it's it's just like you're going back up the hill instead of fucking free fall. OK. I think I think I would say season seven is probably better than season five as well. I think I liked season four and before that, I think it was all right.

Lyte (01:57:53.45)
Hard agree.

Lyte (01:57:59.648)
I wouldn't say one, maybe a 90. Maybe a 40, maybe a 45. Maybe a 45 actually.

Cuffy (01:58:01.764)
You

Coach Mills (01:58:17.766)
It's kind of hard because the early seasons are just so filled with nostalgia that like, and like that slowly fades over time. Like season zero was obviously peak. Season one was still like peak from season zero. But like at a certain point, like the problems kind of rise to the surface.

Captain Coach (01:58:21.677)
Yeah.

Captain Coach (01:58:27.79)
Even the, yeah, even like the Gambit release, even though now we know he's super OP when he first came out, it's like, my God, a support that actually has offensive stuff. I mean, I think if they keep adding stuff, I think season seven's great. think, yeah, like you said, stop the bleeding, I'm right there with you. I think if they just keep listening to the community, listening to the right people, I think this game will be in a good spot in a year or two. I think it's headed in the right direction. But we said that, I wanna say in season five.

And then season six came and it hit us with a dud of a patch. So we're like, let's see what they do, if they can keep it up.

Coach Mills (01:59:01.77)
Right.

I mean, fact they did this change at all, the old nerf change, I just never thought that they would do it. I mean, if it was Blizzard, they would not just ignore us. They would have just not listened at all. And they did it. They actually did that change, which I hope they do it a little more though. I want a little more old nerfs, but there probably is a point of diminishing returns with how much you can nerf old charge.

Captain Coach (01:59:13.654)
Hahaha

Lyte (01:59:16.01)
We are.

Captain Coach (01:59:29.634)
I think it's in the right spot. I initially wanted more than I played it. I think it feels pretty good. I actually like where it's at, to be honest.

Cuffy (01:59:37.176)
Same, yeah. Yeah, I mean the season feels really good. I think it's the first season since season maybe zero, season one, where like I'm losing games, but like losing doesn't feel that bad. Obviously there is still the aspect of the coin flip that does feel very bad, but like in comparison to losing games in season six, was bad 100 % of my losses. Like it felt horrible. Like I was being pummeled.

Coach Mills (01:59:37.204)
What do you think, Kofi, how do you feel about 10?

Captain Coach (02:00:04.568)
Mm.

Cuffy (02:00:06.628)
Now it's bad, maybe 60 % of my losses, maybe 70 % of my losses, you know what mean? But nah, very positive changes. We need to kill Elsa, we need to kill Gambit, maybe Mame Tankpool, we don't need to kill him. But when those three characters are like out of circulation, I re- Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, no facts, facts. We do need to kill Mantis as well. But outside of that-

Coach Mills (02:00:26.698)
You

Lyte (02:00:27.828)
Mantis. Don't let her fly under the radar either. We need to shoot that character.

Captain Coach (02:00:30.412)
He's just gonna regenerate.

Lyte (02:00:34.996)
We need to kill Mattis.

Cuffy (02:00:36.78)
It would be really nice to actually see team environments draft around rosters, team environments create their own strategies. Imagine if teams in pro play were like very unique, similar to other esports, you know, where there's not one tippity top thing, but instead you're drafting around my players because I know my player is the best in the world at this character and my player is the best in the world at this character. It would be non-mirrors. It would be completely different comp matchups.

and then that would add like a different layer to like competing as well because how does my comp play into this comp? What adaptations do we need to make? And no two games will be the same if that is the case, but as of right now, games are very similar.

Coach Mills (02:01:23.132)
and right just because of the strength of those top characters right just overwhelming strength alright well i will think so come on the pod guys coffee where can people find you if they want to support you they want to hear you takes

Cuffy (02:01:27.0)
Mm-hmm. Is that clear?

Lyte (02:01:28.415)
Yep.

Cuffy (02:01:39.074)
Yeah, so mainly Coach Coffee with no spaces on TikTok and I have actually been trying to stick to at least a bi-weekly schedule on YouTube, Coach Coffee with a space. My two most used social medias.

Coach Mills (02:01:54.982)
Awesome, awesome. What about you, Light? Most people know you, but for those who don't?

Lyte (02:01:59.264)
Yeah, it's just, LightPK on Twitch, live every day, LightPK on like all socials actually. But, yeah. Yeah, Imperator, it's like me and Imperator, Day, Jitward, I have to check. I think Quackly's on it too, I think? And Luke, and we're just gonna shoot the shit. Yeah, we're just gonna shoot the shit. I don't know when it's gonna come out, but I'm, I mean,

Captain Coach (02:02:05.696)
You're starting a podcast, right?

Captain Coach (02:02:18.669)
yeah.

Cuffy (02:02:18.852)
I'm

Coach Mills (02:02:21.596)
what the fuck?

Captain Coach (02:02:22.606)
That sounds good actually. That sounds fire.

Lyte (02:02:29.6)
You guys will know if you follow me, so go do all that stuff, lightpk everywhere, and thanks for having me on again, boys. I appreciate it.

Coach Mills (02:02:31.888)
Yeah, that sounds interesting. You gotta get us on that podcast at some point. That's what I wanna be on. Yeah, it sounds fucking crazy. We've only ever done four people, but I've thought about doing like eight and it would be just chaos. Like just non-stop, but it might be fun.

Captain Coach (02:02:33.346)
go absolutely yes bro royal rumble that's a lot of people that's fun

Lyte (02:02:36.704)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. The Royal Rumble is fire.

Lyte (02:02:47.945)
Yeah.

Cuffy (02:02:50.788)
feel like those guys would benefit from the chaos though, I'm not gonna lie.

Coach Mills (02:02:53.614)
Yeah, yeah, probably. yeah. Anyways, thank you guys for coming. Make sure to smash the like, subscribe, and we will see you next time.

Lyte (02:02:54.438)
Yeah.

Captain Coach (02:02:54.538)
Yeah, that's a good group. That's a good group for sure. That's... yeah, fuck it.