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Ross talks with Jeff Meade, Founding Director of Entrepreneurship at Paul Quinn College, about the "Every Quinnite Is an Entrepreneur" program — an initiative that requires every student to launch a real revenue-generating business before graduation. The conversation covers venture-based learning, why entrepreneurial thinking prepares students for an uncertain future of work, and how Paul Quinn is building a model that could help small colleges become more sustainable.
Jeff Meade is the Founding Director of Entrepreneurship at Paul Quinn College. With over 20 years of experience growing companies and advising businesses, Jeff has scaled marketing agencies to multimillion-dollar revenues and built client-side programs featured in Harvard Business Review, Fast Company, and Entrepreneur Magazine. He is now pioneering venture-based learning — a model that equips students with an entrepreneurial mindset, creativity, and real-world experience to thrive as founders, innovators, and intrapreneurs in any field.
In this episode, we discuss:
- What "Every Quinnite Is an Entrepreneur" means and why every student must launch a real business before graduating
- Venture-based learning — experiential learning with real stakes, where students actually get customers, generate revenue, and run businesses
- Why the future workforce demands entrepreneurial thinkers — and why rote skills alone no longer suffice
- How entrepreneurial skills transfer to corporate, nonprofit, and any organizational role
- The case for college as a place of exposure and exploration — and why it's a lot to ask a 17-year-old to know what they want to do
- Aligning K–12, higher education, and workforce development around career readiness
- What students learn about themselves when they have to start a business — motivation, group dynamics, and accountability
- Pattern recognition, diagnosing problems, and leading by influence rather than title
- Paul Quinn's corporate work college model — where students both start businesses and hold internships simultaneously
- A long-term vision for small colleges: owning businesses, creating new revenue streams, and building a sustainable model beyond tuition dependence
Learn more about Paul Quinn College's entrepreneurship program: https://paulquinn.edu/entrepreneurship
Connect with Jeff Meade: https://jeff-meade.com
About today's guest
Jeff Meade is the Founding Director of Entrepreneurship at Paul Quinn College, where he leads the "Every Quinnite Is an Entrepreneur" program. The initiative ensures every student launches a venture before graduation, making entrepreneurship a core life skill rather than an extracurricular option. With over 20 years of experience growing companies and advising businesses, Jeff has scaled agencies to multimillion-dollar revenues and built client-side marketing programs that gained national recognition. His work has been featured in Harvard Business Review, Fast Company, and Entrepreneur Magazine. A graduate of Babson College, the number one school of entrepreneurship in the world, Jeff is pioneering venture-based learning — a model that equips students with an entrepreneurial mindset, creativity, and real-world experience. Connect with Jeff at jeff-meade.com or on LinkedIn.
About the host
Ross Romano is a co-founder of the Be Podcast Network and CEO of September Strategies, a coaching and consulting firm that helps organizations and high-performing leaders in the K–12 education industry communicate their vision and make strategic decisions that lead to long-term success. Connect on Bluesky or LinkedIn.
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Creators and Guests
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[00:00 - 00:26] Welcome in everybody, you are listening as always to the authority podcast here, the
[00:26 - 00:32] Be Podcast Network. Thanks as always for being with us. We are going to have a really great conversation
[00:32 - 00:38] today about entrepreneurship, about making every student entrepreneur what that means,
[00:38 - 00:46] and the present and future of work, getting kids career ready as they progress into an ever-changing,
[00:46 - 00:51] fast-changing future here. My guest is Jeff Mead. Jeff is the founding director of Entrepreneurship
[00:51 - 00:56] at Paul Quinn College, where he is leading a bold initiative, which is every quinine,
[00:56 - 01:02] is an entrepreneur. This program ensures that every student launches a venture before graduation,
[01:03 - 01:10] not a project, not a mock business, but a real business, making entrepreneurship core life skill
[01:10 - 01:15] rather than an extracurricular option. I'm going to let Jeff tell us more about himself as we
[01:15 - 01:19] get into our conversation here, but for now I'm going to welcome him into the show.
[01:20 - 01:27] Thank you Ross, glad to be here. Yeah, tell us about it. Let's get into, we'll talk a lot more
[01:27 - 01:33] about the program, but I would love to just kind of in the broad strokes have you fill us in a bit
[01:33 - 01:43] in your history here in business, and what led you to getting involved with developing this program.
[01:43 - 01:48] And then we'll go in a lot of other directions from there, but I feel like that'll kind of
[01:48 - 01:51] clue our listeners into the context of what we're talking about here.
[01:51 - 01:56] Yeah, yeah. So I'll go a little ways back. I've been at Paul Quinn since
[01:57 - 02:03] November 2024, and so we're just getting started down this road. But my background is really in
[02:03 - 02:09] marketing and advertising. I've been in that world for the past two decades. I've started agencies,
[02:09 - 02:15] I've grown on, I've scaled them. I've had offers to buy my agencies. And so that's been my world.
[02:15 - 02:20] And for the past couple of years, I was doing management consulting. And I was consulting with
[02:20 - 02:26] agencies to help them grow their business and was doing pretty well. And ultimately, what I saw
[02:26 - 02:32] was there wasn't much diversity in that space. And so for me, I was trying to think of a way to
[02:32 - 02:36] bring more diversity into the space. That's what led me down this road. And I said, man, it would be
[02:36 - 02:42] great to figure out how to get more agencies that look like me in this world. And I kind of pulled
[02:42 - 02:47] on that thread a little bit, started going down that road. And as I went down that road, I realized
[02:47 - 02:52] I didn't just want more agencies. I wanted more diverse entrepreneurs. I want to be a part of
[02:52 - 02:57] that journey for more diverse entrepreneurs. And so I started saying, maybe I could build something
[02:57 - 03:03] with a school. And I had this bold idea. And it's partly fueled by I went to Babson College
[03:03 - 03:11] undergrad and Babson College is number one school of entrepreneurship in the world. And they did
[03:11 - 03:17] some innovative stuff. And I thought, man, it would be great if we had a program where every student
[03:17 - 03:23] who came to this school had to start a business. And not just started a business for to say that
[03:23 - 03:29] you started a business. But really, I love when people start businesses, how they think and act
[03:29 - 03:34] differently, right? There are a lot more creative where other people see problems. They see
[03:34 - 03:38] opportunities. And that was the mindset I wanted to shift for a lot of students. And so
[03:39 - 03:44] we do it under the banner of every Quinnites and entrepreneur. Every student who comes to Paul Quinn
[03:44 - 03:49] has to start and operate a business. And it's been great. You know, past year and a half,
[03:49 - 03:54] that model is changing a bit. When I came in, I said, man, everybody has to start a business. And
[03:54 - 04:00] now molding that a bit and starting to think of ways that we can maybe look at franchising
[04:00 - 04:05] opportunities. How do we scale eventually that's already there? How do we make it bigger? And so not
[04:05 - 04:09] everybody's going to start a business, but we still have that entrepreneurship hat.
[04:10 - 04:17] A lot of sense. And I referenced, I think venture-based learning and the kind of the introduction
[04:17 - 04:22] there. Can you define that a bit for us this approach? What that means? Yeah. Yeah, venture-based
[04:22 - 04:26] learning is great. Venture-based learning is in many ways this experience you're learning with
[04:26 - 04:33] stakes, right? Experiential learning, that model makes a lot of sense for people. But intuitively,
[04:33 - 04:38] there are no stakes involved, right? And like you do a project and there's some reality based
[04:38 - 04:42] to that. And you're like, oh, this is great. With venture-based learning, we're saying
[04:43 - 04:47] we're going to teach you marketing. But the way we teach you marketing is you're going to go out
[04:47 - 04:51] and get a customer. And then you're going to sell to that customer, right? Venture-based learning also
[04:51 - 04:56] says, yeah, we're going to teach you finance, but you're going to operate as a CFO of a business
[04:56 - 05:00] that's growing, right? So we teach you all the theoretical stuff, but there are actually stakes here.
[05:00 - 05:04] You know, part of your grade is can you actually get this venture to launch? Can you actually get
[05:04 - 05:09] customers? So you're actually running a business. And so there are very real stakes involved in that
[05:09 - 05:14] process. And that's the kind of rigor and the stress that we want to put our students on this so
[05:14 - 05:18] they can actually learn, right? There's been, as far as many times I've been in conversations and
[05:18 - 05:22] people will say, you know, as a college education is still worth it, right? And I think people have
[05:22 - 05:27] those conversations because they're used to what it used to look like when they were in school. And
[05:27 - 05:33] you just read books and regurgitate information. And with my experience actually running a business,
[05:33 - 05:37] I realized that some of that stuff is cool just for baseline knowledge, but there's some stuff you
[05:37 - 05:43] actually have to experience to actually run a business and be successful. And that's the experiences
[05:43 - 05:47] that we're given to our students. You know, this is what it's like to be an entrepreneur. This is
[05:47 - 05:52] what it's like when a customer, you know, says they're going to buy it, but they don't they return
[05:52 - 05:57] to product, they're going through all of that. So so venture learning is it's experiential
[05:57 - 06:04] learning what stakes real stakes. Yeah. Yeah, it makes a lot of sense. And I could track with that
[06:05 - 06:12] some of the skills and, you know, component skills, mindsets that students would develop by
[06:12 - 06:19] being a part of that would be beneficial whether or not they continue to be an entrepreneur
[06:19 - 06:25] a long term or continue, right? You know, to be in a space where they want to run their own
[06:25 - 06:33] business, but any kind of work they go into the understanding of the stakes behind it makes you
[06:33 - 06:38] smarter and more strategic in the decisions you make, right? And considering, okay, what are the
[06:38 - 06:45] organizational objectives here? And how am I adding value and distinguishing myself, right? As a
[06:45 - 06:51] contributor here in whatever role I am because I have that understanding that I haven't just
[06:52 - 06:59] come in necessarily at the, you know, the ground level and I'm operating a role and I sort of
[06:59 - 07:07] have the blinders on and I'm just doing quote unquote my job, which is there's a lot of risk in that
[07:07 - 07:14] number one because every business successful, unsuccessful goes through these periods of
[07:15 - 07:22] reorganization, reduction, force, whatever it is, right? And, you know, the first place
[07:22 - 07:30] that you're going to look is, well, who is not really clearly bringing surplus value here, right?
[07:30 - 07:36] Who do I not, who do I not exactly even know? Truly what they do, right? I mean, they could be doing
[07:36 - 07:42] good work, but it's just within a box and it's not having those clear interactions with broader
[07:42 - 07:50] objectives or, all right, disruptions caused by AI, other technologies, you know, the whole kinds
[07:50 - 07:55] of other shifts in the labor force where having the ability to navigate between different roles
[07:55 - 08:00] or picking up new skills, right? Or just showing like this is the kind of person that
[08:01 - 08:07] knows how to learn and knows how to find ways to add value. All of those things, I mean, I think
[08:07 - 08:12] you would learn pretty well through entrepreneurship in addition to, you know, whether you go,
[08:13 - 08:17] I mean, some people will just start their own business probably and continue to do that.
[08:18 - 08:24] Some people will try that, go into a quote unquote day job, then go back to entrepreneurship,
[08:24 - 08:29] some people have a side venture, right? Whatever the case may be, but I do think, you know,
[08:29 - 08:35] even for students who are not necessarily coming in there saying, my major is entrepreneurship,
[08:35 - 08:42] so to speak, that those skills are so so critical in the mindsets and the understanding.
[08:42 - 08:47] Yeah. No, you nailed it. You know, as much as I had a passion to create something like this,
[08:47 - 08:54] as I, when I got to Paul Quinn, I thought what was interesting was the workforce was demanding this,
[08:54 - 08:59] you know, the workforce was saying, we need people who can think and act like entrepreneurs,
[08:59 - 09:03] right? They just kind of threw it out there because what they were saying was we can teach you
[09:03 - 09:08] the skills, right? But we actually don't know the skills that you're going to need in three or four
[09:08 - 09:15] years when you graduate. And because of that, we need you to be able to be mobile. We need you to
[09:15 - 09:20] be able to react to change quickly, right? If I put you in a tough situation, I want to make sure that
[09:20 - 09:26] you can like think your way out of it, right? And so they were saying, this is the type of student
[09:26 - 09:32] we need for this future workforce. And sorry, we don't exactly know the skills we're going to need,
[09:32 - 09:37] right? But we need somebody that we can put in that situation and they will be successful,
[09:37 - 09:41] right? And so we kind of took that and ran. We said, all right, thinking act like entrepreneurs
[09:41 - 09:45] got it, right? We're going to make them actual entrepreneurs, right? There's no better way to do that
[09:46 - 09:52] than actually having them create businesses. And I always say, now when our students go up
[09:52 - 09:57] against anyone else and they can say, yeah, for the last three, four years, you know, I developed
[09:57 - 10:03] this business, we scaled it to X, right? We exited it like this. It's just amazing the collection of
[10:03 - 10:08] experiences that they will have. They will still have internships and all that. I don't believe that
[10:08 - 10:13] most of my students will actually run businesses. But I do know this skill set transfers really well to
[10:13 - 10:18] corporate America, to nonprofits, any organizations that they're going to be looking forward to because
[10:18 - 10:23] we all want people that can think like this, right? We don't need to wrote skills because the
[10:23 - 10:27] wrote skills are changing so quickly. And the wrote skills at entry level, like you said,
[10:27 - 10:33] is just being taken over by AI and all these other trends in the marketplace. So because of that,
[10:33 - 10:40] we need students who can navigate a future that we haven't fully defined yet. And for us,
[10:40 - 10:46] this model works perfectly for that. Yeah. And it strikes me as
[10:48 - 10:57] at least components of the model I'm sure that could be considered by higher ed more broadly
[10:57 - 11:03] just than thinking about one, you know, what are the trend lines as far as students
[11:05 - 11:11] perspectives toward higher education. I know that there's been declines in enrollment and
[11:11 - 11:21] decreased interest, which to me, doesn't really indicate a decreased expression of intent to
[11:21 - 11:29] attend, I guess. Yes. It's to me, it's not necessarily less interest, but it is an ROI
[11:29 - 11:36] calculation. Okay. Well, I can see that tuition is going up. I can see that there's not necessarily
[11:36 - 11:47] clarity or a guarantee of gainful employment or great career fields or that it's not necessarily
[11:47 - 11:54] that, right, that much of enhancement versus going into a trade or another kind of field. So
[11:55 - 11:59] that's really what I'm looking at, right? Or I don't want to take out a bunch of loans to do it.
[11:59 - 12:05] And that doesn't seem worthwhile. Right. All of those things are reasonable calculations. But
[12:06 - 12:12] and then at the universities where they can and should get just more attuned to
[12:14 - 12:20] more being more assertive and proactive, I think, in how they are guiding students pathways
[12:20 - 12:26] and aligning them with career fields. But in this case, also having the humility to know
[12:26 - 12:35] we don't know how the labor force is going to evolve. Right. And if we're equipping you with the
[12:35 - 12:43] skills to create jobs versus just go into jobs that exist. Right. I do think there's a difference
[12:44 - 12:53] in certain fields between saying there's there's no jobs in that field and there's no money in that
[12:53 - 12:57] field. And let me do the same thing. Right. Look at journalism as an example. Right. Yeah.
[12:57 - 13:04] The traditional media is contracting and cutting jobs. But then a lot of journalism journalists
[13:04 - 13:09] are going into entrepreneurship and starting their own ventures, whether it's newsletters, podcasts,
[13:09 - 13:15] whatever it is. Right. And so it's not it's that there's a change in the labor force and it's going
[13:15 - 13:20] to more entrepreneurial versus you're on the payroll somewhere. But it doesn't mean that there's not
[13:20 - 13:25] money to be found for somebody who has the business mindset to combine with their skills and
[13:25 - 13:30] interests and passions and the things they want to do. Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. I mean, we see it all
[13:30 - 13:35] the time. And it's funny you say that, you know, I have a son who's a writer. He's 16 and we're
[13:35 - 13:41] having a similar conversation. You know, he wants he writes books and he keeps packaging his stories
[13:41 - 13:46] in books. And I said, Hey, because I always have my entrepreneurial hat on. I said, you're a storyteller.
[13:47 - 13:52] You don't just write books. And so think of all the mediums you can tell stories to. Right. And so
[13:53 - 13:58] we see it happening all the time. It's the I remember it was this case, this Harvard business case
[13:58 - 14:02] called marketing myopia. Right. And it was really about the railroads back in the days. And so
[14:03 - 14:08] the reason that those guys weren't able to innovate is because they solely saw their business as
[14:08 - 14:13] being in the railroad business. Right. As opposed to the transportation business. So everything that
[14:13 - 14:17] came before, they were the ones that had the capital and the money that they could have invested in
[14:17 - 14:23] everything else, but they didn't because they took this myopic view of we're just railroads.
[14:23 - 14:30] I think now it's on us in higher ed to expand the scope and really say, well, yes, we want to
[14:30 - 14:37] get you these skills, but these skills can transfer to so many different industries. And us going
[14:37 - 14:40] through entrepreneurship doesn't mean we don't have the hard skills, right. Like for anybody who's
[14:40 - 14:45] encountered, they're still taking those classes. Right. But what we're doing is we're actually
[14:45 - 14:49] showing them what it looks like in the real world. So to speak, it's not all theory. It's we're
[14:49 - 14:58] going to show you the practical. And then you're going to actually apply it. What do you advise
[14:58 - 15:07] around the, you know, the multi directional, I guess, interactions between if we look at the
[15:07 - 15:16] three phases of being K to 12 high red and workforce, right. In my observation, I mean, I do think
[15:16 - 15:24] there's been a tightening alignment between K to 12 and workforce and emphasis sometime. I mean,
[15:25 - 15:32] in some areas, maybe more the intent currently than implementation still catching up. But as far as
[15:33 - 15:39] career-connected learning programs and looking at an enhanced kind of definition of college and
[15:39 - 15:46] career readiness and what it means, you know, in secondary grades, right, to have students be thinking
[15:46 - 15:55] ahead and really planning for career in a way that has evolved versus, okay, 20 years ago,
[15:56 - 16:01] after you graduate, then you figure out your next step for me. Yeah. And you're either going to
[16:01 - 16:06] college or you're not. And then you go for it, right. But I feel like there really is an
[16:06 - 16:15] opportunity for one, like the higher ed system to be more actively engaged in both pieces of that,
[16:15 - 16:23] which could help to validate efforts being made in K 12, right, and tighten the alignment between,
[16:23 - 16:30] okay, this also is a way to create demand for higher ed because we're showing how these pieces
[16:30 - 16:36] work together and then the workforce as well. But I'm interested in, you know, your thoughts on
[16:37 - 16:42] how that could look and how that could support, you know, I think an effective
[16:43 - 16:48] transformation within the higher ed system, right, because we're all familiar with the debates
[16:48 - 16:54] that have taken place and how it becomes a this versus that for a long time. It was
[16:55 - 17:04] going to college is the ideal and, you know, other things are plan B and, you know, it almost
[17:04 - 17:14] shifted in a lot of ways, at least for a lot of segments within the discourse as to not even,
[17:14 - 17:24] you know, beyond it's not better than or worse than or it's not necessary to have to go to college
[17:24 - 17:30] and have a good career, but almost you're dumb if you do go. Like why would you because you can come
[17:30 - 17:37] out of school and make 80K, 100K, whatever in this field, you know, which again has some truth to it,
[17:37 - 17:44] but it also isn't the full story as far as what your long term growth potential is if you don't have
[17:45 - 17:51] an education in certain areas to build on. Right. Yeah. No, that's a good question. I think the big
[17:51 - 17:56] thing is as much as I work at a college, I do believe colleges and they're for everyone.
[17:56 - 18:02] Right. I do believe there are certain careers where you can do just fine going from K through 12
[18:03 - 18:08] and then going out into the workforce. And I feel like there's a lot of companies who have built
[18:08 - 18:14] programs that make that transition a whole lot easier. Right. So I'm all for that. What I think
[18:14 - 18:20] college does a good job of is exposure. Right. And so for myself and I remember when I was in
[18:20 - 18:27] school and for many of my colleagues, you think you know what you want to do at 1718. And then
[18:27 - 18:32] you get placed in this environment and the world starts to open up. And you're like, well, yeah,
[18:32 - 18:36] you know, I thought I was good in numbers. Like I'll take myself for instance, like I was really good
[18:36 - 18:41] at math. And so I was like, oh, people kept saying you should be an engineer. And part of it didn't
[18:41 - 18:46] feel right. And you know, as I started getting older and I got introduced to business, I was like,
[18:46 - 18:51] well, this feels more right. Right. And so college exposes you to different things. And that's
[18:51 - 18:56] what I really like about it. You know, there are so many stats and I don't want to misquote it. But
[18:57 - 19:03] something like over 60% of students once they land on a college campus, switch their major. Right.
[19:03 - 19:08] And so it's on college, the college is at that level to really expose you to
[19:10 - 19:15] what you could be interested in. Right. When you land on a campus, you choose your major based on the
[19:15 - 19:23] first 17 years of your life, whatever you've been exposed to. And K through 12 can only do so much.
[19:23 - 19:28] Right. They can't expose you to all these possible careers. And so for those that say,
[19:28 - 19:33] hey, I'm a junior, I'm a senior in high school and I know I want to be blank. And to be blank,
[19:33 - 19:38] I just have to go through this work program, this workforce development program, or I can maybe
[19:38 - 19:42] just go straight from high school. That's perfect. But for the vast majority of this,
[19:42 - 19:47] Jill trying to figure stuff out. And I think college provides this soft landing where you can figure
[19:47 - 19:52] stuff out and then start, you know, whether it's an internship, whether it's a school like us,
[19:52 - 19:57] where you actually get to launch something, but you get exposure to so much stuff. So I think that's
[19:57 - 20:04] the piece that we feel between, you know, the workforce and K through 12 is that you're able to see
[20:04 - 20:10] what you could be. Right. It's so tough to say, this is what I want to be at 17, right. And then
[20:10 - 20:15] make that decision. And hey, you know, five years later, you're like, all right, this isn't what I
[20:15 - 20:19] want to do. So I got to figure some stuff out. You know, maybe I take some certification classes,
[20:19 - 20:24] maybe I'm taking some night classes in school, whatever. But I think it's a lot to ask of somebody
[20:24 - 20:31] to say, I figured it out. I know what I want to do at 17. That's tough. Yeah. Yeah, I think of,
[20:31 - 20:37] you know, it's not linear anymore. And it needn't be. And it's good to create
[20:38 - 20:43] systems that account for that to say, okay, I'm going to, you know, when I'm graduating high school,
[20:43 - 20:50] I don't really exactly know what I want to do. So rather than potentially wasting my time and money
[20:50 - 20:57] going into a program that I have no idea about. Let me go work for a while. Think about it.
[20:57 - 21:04] Go back to school later. Maybe I go and I, you know, work in a field where I get some experience
[21:04 - 21:10] and make some money and then I go and get a business degree because I want to own my own business
[21:10 - 21:16] in that field. And now I've had some experience. Or now I figured out what I'm interested in. And it's
[21:16 - 21:23] good to, you know, it's good to understand that's often how it might work best that you have a student
[21:23 - 21:27] who's a couple years further out, a couple, you know, a little bit more knowledgeable about
[21:27 - 21:33] themselves about what's of interest to them. And, and then you come in, you know, with that
[21:33 - 21:39] perspective, I'm interested in the students that come into your program. How many are, you know,
[21:40 - 21:49] coming in with a clear conception of what it means to get involved in entrepreneurship. How many of
[21:49 - 21:54] them are sort of learning once they get there. How are you defining it for them, right? As they're
[21:54 - 22:00] getting started. I'm sure that there's a wide range, right? Of the, of what they have in mind
[22:00 - 22:05] and what they think and expect when they come in. Right. Right. Well, I will say our admissions team
[22:05 - 22:11] does a great job when they're out at different events and selling this and saying that, you know,
[22:11 - 22:15] you come to Paul Quinn, you're expected to start a business, right? And so if you're looking at
[22:15 - 22:18] different schools and somebody says this, it sounds really cool. And you're like, oh, you guys
[22:18 - 22:22] will help me start a business. Oh, wow, there's a seed fund. So you'll actually invest. So this is
[22:22 - 22:27] a real business. I think it sounds great, you know, and then when students get there, they're like,
[22:27 - 22:33] oh, we really have to start a business. And this is really tough. And, you know, that's usually
[22:33 - 22:37] what I hear. Like, it's just really hard. And I tell them, it's supposed to be hard, right? And
[22:37 - 22:42] then no one ever starts a business and be like, oh, it's a piece of cake. It just doesn't happen.
[22:42 - 22:47] So, you know, we have students coming in through all majors. No one gets to duck it. Everybody has
[22:47 - 22:55] to start a business. And I think what I've found most surprising is that they are excited about
[22:55 - 23:01] it. Going through a process, they realize how tough it is. And for those who are embracing it,
[23:01 - 23:05] they're like, man, I could see, I could see start in my own business, right? Like the businesses
[23:05 - 23:09] they're starting, it's not going to be the end all beat. There's probably a couple folks that I'm
[23:09 - 23:14] like, oh, we're going to pray, we're going to highlight your business because this has legs to
[23:14 - 23:19] grow. And then a lot of people are like, you know, this is a good side hustle. I can definitely make
[23:19 - 23:25] some money here. So the skills that they're learning is amazing. Yeah, I do think one of the things
[23:25 - 23:31] that's probably most true of the future of work is that almost nobody's only going to do one thing.
[23:31 - 23:35] Whether that means they're going to change careers, whether that means they're going to have
[23:35 - 23:41] multiple careers at the same time or a side business or, you know, have a side business that turns
[23:41 - 23:49] into their full-time thing just with the availability through digital businesses and technology
[23:49 - 23:55] that it just makes it something that people can access through changes that are sometimes
[23:55 - 24:01] going to be forced upon people in where jobs go and then how businesses change. But it's just
[24:01 - 24:06] good to have that. And I, you know, I would think I don't know if you've observed this early going,
[24:06 - 24:13] but you know, you do, I mean, you just really would learn a lot about yourself and how you best
[24:13 - 24:19] operate and what's your most interested in by having to start your own business in terms of
[24:20 - 24:28] what you're motivated by, right? Are you motivated by mission? Like, I really have to be working
[24:28 - 24:36] on something that I deeply care about at a fundamental level. Are you motivated by money
[24:37 - 24:45] in terms of where you're motivated by something, by freedom, by not having a boss, by, I mean,
[24:45 - 24:53] one of the things for me that I was probably one of the, you know, most enjoyable moments of when I
[24:53 - 24:59] had started my first business was, I think we don't, you know, obviously everything's digital now
[24:59 - 25:05] direct deposit, but you know, when my signature was on the check, right? When I was paying somebody
[25:05 - 25:09] else for their work, because it was like, well, I created economic opportunity for somebody else
[25:09 - 25:14] by starting this business and they got to work and they made money, right? That can be fulfilling
[25:14 - 25:23] too, but I would certainly think, right? There's people that are in jobs that have never had their
[25:23 - 25:27] own business been their own boss, but it's very entrepreneurial. They're in sales, right? And
[25:27 - 25:34] sometimes there's people, friends that I have that are in sales professions that I'm almost jealous
[25:34 - 25:42] that I think I wish I could be motivated by, you know, that, but I wouldn't be able to do it because I just,
[25:43 - 25:49] if I don't really, you know, if it's not just a line to something that I really care about,
[25:49 - 25:56] and you know, inherently motivated, but I can't care. I can't make myself, I can do both. It can
[25:56 - 26:02] be, you know, a mission that matters to me and something where we can really be creative about
[26:02 - 26:08] the economics and, you know, and seeing how much money we can make doing it, but it can't be that
[26:08 - 26:12] alone, but it's, I would think like when you're faced with it and you're saying, I have to build this,
[26:12 - 26:17] I have to put in the work, like I'm the one that has to go above and beyond. I'm going to learn pretty
[26:17 - 26:24] quickly how I'm motivated, how I'm not, you know, if I like having the freedom, if I like having
[26:24 - 26:31] the responsibility of being the boss or if it's, you know, a solo printer or just being accountable,
[26:32 - 26:36] you know, if I like the theory of that or if I like it in reality, and what does that look like?
[26:36 - 26:41] Right. Now, it's interesting because, you know, kind of just hearing you talk and hearing and
[26:41 - 26:46] thinking about the experience we're going through, right? Like what I like about it is, you know,
[26:46 - 26:51] traditionally students to get ahead, you know, you're really, yeah, students are going to say something
[26:51 - 26:55] like, you know, will this be on the test, right? So they can game it, they know what to study for,
[26:55 - 27:01] but students in my class, they don't talk like that. There's no, is this going to be on the test?
[27:01 - 27:06] Because that's not what we're optimizing for, right? Like you're trying to optimize for
[27:07 - 27:11] how can I scale this? How can I make this successful? And so you're not waiting on somebody,
[27:12 - 27:16] you're actually trying to dictate and you're trying to create the future for yourself.
[27:16 - 27:20] It's really amazing to see students go through that and you touched on it earlier.
[27:21 - 27:25] It's just amazing for them to start reflecting and really start to get to know themselves. Like,
[27:25 - 27:30] what am I good at? You know, you start handing them saying that, you know, and in my group meetings,
[27:30 - 27:34] I should have spoke up more, right? Like I wanted to go this direction, but I kind of laid back,
[27:34 - 27:40] but I should have spoke up more. And I just think that's an amazing experience at this age,
[27:40 - 27:45] because we all go through it in the workplace, right? Like when you should have spoken up or,
[27:45 - 27:52] you know, how do you galvanize a group and get them to do what you think is best for the group?
[27:52 - 27:56] Those are all those soft skills that are really hard to learn unless you're in that environment,
[27:56 - 28:02] but through this, through venture-based learning, students are able to be put in those
[28:02 - 28:07] experience, learn about themselves, but also see what they could be good at, right? They're just
[28:07 - 28:14] getting so many reps so young, it's fascinating. Yeah, and things that are so valuable to anything they
[28:14 - 28:21] want to do, right? You know, it involved in a lot of interviewing and recruitment lately. And
[28:22 - 28:29] almost always, you can you tell within the first five minutes, this person have a real chance or
[28:29 - 28:36] not. I did have one recently where I sort of changed my mind as it went further through,
[28:36 - 28:41] but usually it's just because you're picturing those dynamics. Could I see this person
[28:41 - 28:48] being able to influence cross-functional partners or, right? Can I see them being able to really
[28:48 - 28:53] make a case for an idea? Whether or not I think they have the skills or knowledge,
[28:54 - 29:01] can I see them actually being able to enact it by getting, you know, getting other people on board
[29:01 - 29:06] with it? Those type of things, right? Which you're going to learn in this environment because you
[29:06 - 29:14] have to because it's ultimately because you know what it's like to be the one that's on the line
[29:14 - 29:20] and saying, well, if I'm going to go down, I'll go down, trying it the way I think it should be
[29:20 - 29:25] done, right? Doesn't work at least I did the best that I could, but there's nobody else to hide
[29:25 - 29:33] behind. And how valuable is that in any organization, right? But you have to learn it a lot of times by
[29:34 - 29:41] being there, by doing it, how valuable is it to be working in groups where there is that real
[29:41 - 29:50] stakes to even motivate it and to get, you know, because like one, I'm sure this is as true in this
[29:50 - 29:56] program as in others that I've learned, but I, you know, just especially when I was doing solo
[29:56 - 30:02] consulting, like I also, I spent a lot of time getting involved in different, but just continuing my
[30:02 - 30:09] own education, right? I'm getting, doing a business course over here or a, you know, co-work-based
[30:09 - 30:15] program here. And they're always presented as you get out of it, which you put into it, right? You
[30:15 - 30:21] can get as much out of it. And what I learned pretty quickly and then like communicated back was
[30:22 - 30:27] really you get out of it, which appears put into it, right? Because if it's supposed to be a group
[30:27 - 30:32] thing and you're the only one who's doing anything and you're not getting feedback from
[30:32 - 30:38] people on what you did, right? It's supposed to be peer-to-peer professionals and if nobody's
[30:38 - 30:43] really taking the time to review what each other's working on, give them an idea, make it better,
[30:45 - 30:49] that's, you know, you're really missing out on what the value of that is supposed to be. And the
[30:49 - 30:55] same thing is certainly true in college and grad school and all of that to say, well, I'm here because
[30:55 - 31:01] I'm supposed to be surrounded by other smart people. And they should know things I don't know and
[31:01 - 31:07] vice versa. And we're supposed to make each other better. But, you know, we've all probably been
[31:07 - 31:14] shocked to find, I mean, literally shocked like in higher education, where you were part of a
[31:14 - 31:20] group project that three of the five people didn't do anything. Yes. What is going on here, right?
[31:21 - 31:27] But in this case, I would think there would be incentive to not do that. Yeah, it's tough, I mean,
[31:27 - 31:33] you know, most people don't like group projects. And so, especially coming from high school, where you,
[31:34 - 31:39] I think that K through 12 is doing a better job of group projects now, but, you know, to be thrown
[31:39 - 31:45] into group projects where you're great is determined by other people and you have to learn and figure
[31:45 - 31:52] out what sort of incentives can get, can motivate them to do what you want. You know, that's,
[31:52 - 31:55] that stuff is tough. It's good to learn it now because you're definitely going to need it and
[31:55 - 32:01] whatever job you take in the future. But it is really tough to motivate people who you're like,
[32:01 - 32:07] hey, we're all here. Don't you want to learn? And, you know, maybe they're like, this ain't for me,
[32:07 - 32:11] right? But you still have to rely on them for your success. And so going through those experiences,
[32:11 - 32:17] I think it's just great for students. It sucks for them. And they've told me as much. But, but,
[32:17 - 32:23] you know, it's just a great experience to go through. Yeah, I mean, everything, everything ends up
[32:23 - 32:30] being that you go for, right? There's always other stakeholders, whatever the roles and positions are,
[32:30 - 32:35] whether it's internal, whether it's, you know, external partners, there's always something to
[32:35 - 32:41] account for. There's always a client. There's always an understanding how to navigate some of those
[32:41 - 32:49] things. I mean, I'm sure, right, your time and agency work. It's very similar in how educational
[32:49 - 32:56] that is. And just the number of times you see things and the number of different companies you work
[32:56 - 33:02] with. It's like a scout in pro sports or something that it's like, well, how do you know so quickly?
[33:02 - 33:08] Well, because I've seen so many players that there's things I just really quickly pick up on. And
[33:08 - 33:11] I don't even exactly know what it, but I just can tell you know what, there's something wrong. There's
[33:11 - 33:16] something. But by the time you've been through enough different clients and you've worked with them,
[33:16 - 33:22] there's things you picked up on really fast to say, this is going to go off the rails. I better
[33:22 - 33:28] intervene. This is a positive. This is, you know, there's no recovering from this kind of thing.
[33:28 - 33:36] And it's having that exposure. And you know, but it's a really an accelerator, right? Because then
[33:36 - 33:44] you go and you're in a different role. And you just have way more reps. And you've seen it way
[33:44 - 33:51] more times in a variety of circumstances than people have who have not been in that environment. And
[33:52 - 33:57] it's, you just have a totally different view. Yeah, no, that's such a good point.
[33:57 - 34:01] I mean, what we're really teaching them is pattern recognition, right? So I can put you in another
[34:01 - 34:06] situation. And you can say, huh, this is different, but it rhymes, right? Like I can start to pick up
[34:06 - 34:12] those patterns. And you know, I see it, I've started writing case studies, like business case studies.
[34:12 - 34:18] And you know, and it just, it makes so much sense based on my consulting work in the past, right?
[34:18 - 34:25] And so now when I'm writing these case studies on businesses, it's so hard not to diagnose
[34:25 - 34:29] when I'm talking to them. I'm like, oh, I know what your problem is, right? Like your payroll is
[34:29 - 34:35] x and you're spending this on overhead. And that's not going to work. But that's, it's not for me
[34:35 - 34:39] to solve. I'm just trying to write so my students will solve it. But again, it's like this pattern
[34:39 - 34:44] recognition, like you see it, and you're like, oh, my God, I know what you're doing wrong. But
[34:44 - 34:51] right? That's not my job to solve. Yeah. Well, it can be helpful. It's the combination. It's
[34:51 - 34:55] the combination of, I think of the book learning in the real world, right? And you kind of,
[34:55 - 35:00] you need both. There's certain things you can't learn without some academic study. But it's also
[35:00 - 35:06] can be challenging to apply them because it is messy in a real organization. And, and
[35:07 - 35:13] sometimes you just find yourself thinking, why haven't we figured this out yet?
[35:14 - 35:21] And okay, wait a second. This is not a new thing, but every business is starting from a different
[35:21 - 35:30] point. And, you know, they're not starting with a blank slate. Where are we now? Right. And
[35:30 - 35:37] so everything, you know, wherever you are now is built on every decision that came before
[35:37 - 35:43] that. And so you can't really take that all apart. And then, yeah, who are the people that are
[35:43 - 35:49] involved? How do they approach it? And the more times you've seen it, you can, and again,
[35:49 - 35:55] to the point of how these entrepreneurial skills in that mindset helps you in any role, right?
[35:55 - 36:01] To be the problem solver and the one who can say, okay, let me step in here and take the lead
[36:02 - 36:09] on this project and be a leader, lead by influence, not by title, right? Right?
[36:09 - 36:15] kind of things that are entrepreneurial skills and that position you then to become,
[36:15 - 36:21] right? To have that title because you've distinguished yourself as somebody who actually has
[36:21 - 36:26] the leadership skills, but it's, you know, quickly diagnosing and then going into solution
[36:26 - 36:34] mode is an entrepreneurial skill. Yeah, it's as fascinating to see, right? Because we also,
[36:34 - 36:40] what's unique about Paul Quinn is we are a corporate work college, which means in addition to everybody
[36:40 - 36:47] having a start of business, they also have to work, right? So as they go into corporate and they get
[36:47 - 36:53] these internships, it's really good to see them trying to, and granted, we're in the beginning
[36:53 - 37:00] stages here, but really just seeing these students start to exert influence as an intern, right? Like
[37:00 - 37:07] that's unheard of, right? But really just how can I get this project that they put me on done,
[37:07 - 37:14] right? And not just done, but I have to work with people. And so really seeing them start to
[37:14 - 37:19] leverage those skills in the workplace, but then also when they're on campus developing those
[37:19 - 37:25] skills through the adventure, it's really just cool dichotomy that they get to experience.
[37:25 - 37:31] Very unique. I don't know too many other places doing it. Yeah. Are there a few, like as we're
[37:32 - 37:38] starting to wrap this up, but a few of the tangible elements of the program you want to speak to,
[37:38 - 37:47] like what are some of the real critical mechanisms you have for helping students develop
[37:48 - 37:53] the core skills? What does it look like? Whether it's around kind of the pillars that the program
[37:53 - 38:01] is built around, or just how you believe it best to deliver, right? The lessons that the students
[38:01 - 38:07] are learning. Yeah. Well, I would answer it like this. And so what I'm creating is, you know,
[38:07 - 38:13] I was a business major. And so, you know, I took my core classes, marketing, finance accounting,
[38:13 - 38:19] all that stuff. And so I haven't substituted that. We students go through the same sort of rigor.
[38:20 - 38:28] What I overlay on top of all that is that the professors that I work with is they have to then
[38:28 - 38:35] map it back to adventure, not 100% at a time. But in your accounting class, we're looking at,
[38:35 - 38:40] if it's not even your venture, it's somebody else's venture, right? How do we start to read their
[38:40 - 38:46] P&L? Because again, what I'm trying to do through faculty and with the students is trying to
[38:46 - 38:51] make sure that everything has stakes, right? And so you're not just doing this to get 100,
[38:51 - 38:56] but you're doing this to make sure that you can potentially value a business, right? So they
[38:56 - 39:01] can work on P&Ls for a startup. But what's also what we're also doing was innovative about the
[39:01 - 39:06] program is, you know, I told you in the beginning that I wanted to move away just from startups.
[39:06 - 39:12] And so what that has meant is we are actually looking at businesses that we can buy as a program,
[39:12 - 39:17] right? And that's just a different revenue stream for us. That's us just being innovative. So what's
[39:17 - 39:22] fascinating about that is it opens up this whole portfolio of experiences. And so now going back
[39:22 - 39:28] to the finance and accounting is then as we start to look at businesses, my finance students,
[39:28 - 39:33] they get to do valuation on businesses, right? And it's not just for a project. This is for a
[39:33 - 39:40] business that we might buy, right? And so they go through the fundamental courses that a business
[39:40 - 39:44] student will go through and, you know, anybody taking my entrepreneurship classes. But again,
[39:44 - 39:49] I just layer it with stakes. So it's tied to something that's real, right? And so when you turn
[39:49 - 39:56] something in, it isn't just to get 100, right? It's to make sure that this venture is successful,
[39:56 - 40:00] successfully meeting its goals and objectives, right? And so that's really what it's built around.
[40:01 - 40:06] And then when I start thinking about metrics, it really is how many businesses can we start up,
[40:06 - 40:12] right? How many businesses can we actually have revenue for actually revenue generating businesses.
[40:12 - 40:18] And so we're looking at that as well. But the goal is that 100% of the students start a business.
[40:18 - 40:24] And that in itself is it's lofty by any means. It's a graduation requirement. So they have to start
[40:24 - 40:32] a business. And we have to give them the space and opportunity and framework to actually develop that
[40:32 - 40:41] business. Do you have any long term goals in mind for what you would like this program to evolve into
[40:41 - 40:47] whether it's within the program itself or, you know, potentially in the way it's, of course,
[40:47 - 40:52] branching out either through these businesses or through, you know, developing model.
[40:53 - 40:59] So, and this is probably from my management consultant background. When I got into academia, what
[41:00 - 41:05] what struck me is odd. And it's probably not odd to most people who have been in academia their whole
[41:05 - 41:11] life. But the revenue stream was completely dependent on students, except for a handful of colleges
[41:11 - 41:17] that have huge endowments. But other than that, it's all tuition based. And, you know, if in the
[41:17 - 41:21] consulting world, if you look at that and you see one revenue stream, you're like, well, this is crazy.
[41:21 - 41:26] This is not a sustainable business. And so for me, what I want to do is create a model for
[41:26 - 41:32] small colleges, right? A model where as colleges can start to say, hey, we can have an entrepreneurship
[41:32 - 41:39] program that not only teaches the students how to be entrepreneurs, but actually the DNA of the
[41:39 - 41:44] school changes because we as an institution, we as this department will start acting like entrepreneurs
[41:44 - 41:50] as well. And so by doing that, I think it's important that the department starts to
[41:50 - 41:56] invest differently. And so we are raising, we have a seed fund that we have available for students,
[41:56 - 42:01] but we're also we also have a development fund. And that development fund is so that we can buy
[42:01 - 42:06] businesses. And some of these businesses will be on campus. Some of them will be in and around Dallas.
[42:07 - 42:11] And it's going to be a great place for our students to work. But I think this model, you know,
[42:11 - 42:16] where we're actually owning businesses, we will be able to profit from that. And that money will be
[42:16 - 42:20] able to come to the school. And we can put some more money into the businesses. But I think that
[42:20 - 42:26] model is a model that I want other small school small colleges to adopt, right? I think that that
[42:26 - 42:31] can help small colleges be sustainable because right now the model isn't sustainable, right? Your
[42:31 - 42:39] tuition dependent. And a lot of you revenue comes from the federal government and the federal government
[42:39 - 42:44] has said we're not going to support higher ed the way we have done in the past, right? That's the trend.
[42:44 - 42:49] And so if that's the case, you got to figure something else out. And I think this can be a
[42:49 - 42:54] sustainable model going forward not only for Paul Quinn, but for small colleges in America. So that
[42:54 - 43:00] is my vision. Thanks. Well, Jeff, it's been really great to have you on the show. It's been really
[43:00 - 43:05] enjoyed the conversation. Is there anything you'd like our listeners to check out any website or
[43:05 - 43:11] anything you want to point them to? Yeah, please check out Paul Quinn.edu backslash entrepreneurship.
[43:11 - 43:18] Great site to go do and check out. And if you want more about me, go to Jeff hyphen mead.com,
[43:18 - 43:23] me to spell mead.com and look forward to hand from you.
[43:24 - 43:30] Excellent. Well, we will put those links in the show notes below listeners to where you can
[43:30 - 43:37] learn more about Paul Quinn's entrepreneurship program about Jeff at his website and also how to
[43:37 - 43:42] connect on LinkedIn. So check that out all out below. You can learn a lot more about this.
[43:42 - 43:48] Really, you know, interesting, innovative program here and certainly something that we can all
[43:48 - 43:54] learn something from as we think about what does it really mean to prepare students who are
[43:54 - 44:01] future ready and ready to have success in career or whatever their path is to getting there and
[44:01 - 44:07] to creating the jobs of the future. You know, you may be developing your own future employer. So
[44:07 - 44:13] do a good job. But learn more about that. And Jeff, thanks again for being here.
[44:13 - 44:22] Ross, thank you so much for having me. It's been a pleasure.