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Keeping Skor: Creativity, Curiosity, and the Things We Keep. A podcast about why people collect the things they love. Each episode begins with a collection - but the conversation quickly expands into something deeper: memory, imagination, and the choices we make about what matters. Through thoughtful conversations with collectors of all kinds, Keeping Skor explores the stories, passions, and meaning behind the objects people choose to keep.
Stephen Skorski: So when you are…
Stephen Skorski: creating a blend, right? You're sitting in front of your organ.
katie: Yeah. Bass notes, your middle notes, your top notes, you have this…
Stephen Skorski: You know,
Stephen Skorski: what you know is you can tell a story, right? You can kind of create this environment through…
Stephen Skorski: you know, what's… what's the right word? You know, scent… scent storytelling.
katie: I like it, I like it.
Stephen Skorski: Better way to say that. So…
Stephen Skorski: when you create those blends, what are you responding to? Is it the season, the person? Is it something internal? Like, is it something that you don't really even understand why you're doing it? Like, what…
Stephen Skorski: If we all have a really clear picture of the tools in front of us and the organization, help us understand how you start to create these things.
katie: Yeah. Well, I mean, this is… this is just a conversation where we… we start talking about art, you know? Like, why does any artist create anything? You know, are they trying to express something, or capture something, or…
katie: You know, like,
katie: yeah, express or capture something. And so, the same way that someone would maybe write a poem or a song because they're excited, or nostalgic, or broken-hearted, or…
katie: whatever, the same reason you would create a scent. You know, like, what is inspiring you? What moved you? What did the muse just come and whisper in your ear? And so…
katie: the anointing oils I sell, Currently, are,
katie: based on archetypes, and so I was inspired to blend
katie: sense that would represent archetypes as a way of really quickly accessing these, like, facets of wisdom that I think we all have.
katie: And so I wanted to blend these scents that,
katie: Could be used as tools to access wisdom in a really efficient way.
katie: And so, I first thought about what is this archetype?
katie: What are the… like, if an archetype is, like, a bouquet of human characteristics, what are each of the flowers in the bouquet?
katie: You know, like, what are the aspects of this archetype?
katie: And then what are the feelings of those?
katie: aspects, and then I would, based on my own relationship with the sense, how they make me feel, how I notice they make other people feel, then I'm kind of creating, like, a reverse association.
katie: where… you know, I'm like, if I need a scent that feels… like… Something weird, like commitment.
katie: Because we're just about to be in priestess season, and she rules commitment and vows.
katie: Like, I figured out what oil, in my opinion, smells like commitment and vows, you know? Like.
Stephen Skorski: I, I love…
katie: I like to let my brain… associate really freely.
katie: So instead of being like, what oil makes me feel happy, I can get really specific, you know? So, in terms of whatever I'm trying to express.
katie: You know, you could… just like with any artist, you know, you could give a whole room full of artists, you know, some kind of prompt, like.
katie: The last day of school, or…
katie: The beach in the morning, or whatever, you know, something evocative.
katie: And everybody would, like, express that somehow, using color, texture, or shape, or rhythm, or whatever, and scent is the same exact way.
katie: There's rhythm, there's all the synesthesia with scent. There's rhythm, there's texture, there's temperature, there's everything. Even more so with anything else, because
katie: Scent is this, like, wild, feral cousin free-for-all. It's not in any museum, there's no rule books.
katie: You know, there's no language for scent, it's just, like, you can do whatever you want with it. And that's probably why I like it so much, is there's no, like, right or wrong.
katie: In terms of how to use scent to build up… to… to express something or to create a narrative, you know?
Stephen Skorski: Yeah.
katie: There's no… there's no rules. You can do whatever… you can do whatever you want.
Stephen Skorski: Oh, my God, you're saying… you're saying so much. You're really… I mean, this.
katie: Now everyone knows why we can never get to the end of anything.
Stephen Skorski: No, I mean, because literally, I'm gonna be like, let's go back to the start of all of what you just said, because I thought the way you said it, because…
Stephen Skorski: You know, when people think of archetypes.
Stephen Skorski: I mean, you know, we probably all have a slightly kind of different definition or relationship with even the concept.
Stephen Skorski: And so you described an archetype as a bouquet?
Stephen Skorski: Yeah. Okay, give us that again, just so we can all kind of, again, from your perspective.
Stephen Skorski: You know, when you say archetype, give us, give us exactly what you're thinking in your head.
katie: Yeah, so I think of archetypes as… repeating… and accessible… Bouquets of characteristics.
katie: And so, like…
katie: repeating in that you see… it's not an archetype if it only ever happens once, you know? It has to be, like.
katie: Across cultures, across times, has to be, like, a repeating theme, has to be thematic, right?
katie: what was the other thing I said? Oh, accessible.
katie: So it also can't be, like.
katie: rare. It has to be, it can't be Mount Everest, you know? It has to be just, like.
katie: Very ex… I can't use the word to describe it.
katie: Yeah, it has to be just a native tongue, a little bit. Like, even if it's not your most…
katie: leaned on archetype, it has to be like, oh yeah, I get that. Like, you know, if you met someone who was absolutely not…
katie: an artist, but you were like, artist. So you're like, yeah, I gotta understand what an artist is. That's…
katie: In the vocabulary, you know, it's…
Stephen Skorski: Yeah, I mean, just to kind of… Right, my understanding…
Stephen Skorski: is that… I mean, this all goes back to Young, right?
katie: Yeah.
Stephen Skorski: This sort of psychological concept, for lack of a better way to kind of.
katie: Yeah, yeah, no, that's what it is, yeah.
Stephen Skorski: And… if… I think, at least the way I understand it, is these are… Kind of life…
Stephen Skorski: Experiences, or characteristics, or… could be people, or events, but they…
Stephen Skorski: They are, in fact, so kind of deeply embedded.
katie: Yes.
Stephen Skorski: everybody's life, so it doesn't matter if you were born, you know, in the middle of New York City.
Stephen Skorski: Or the middle of, you know, sort of a small village halfway around the planet. Like, these things are…
Stephen Skorski: Things that exist in some form, some recognizable form, regardless of time, culture, place.
katie: Yes.
Stephen Skorski: Right, okay.
katie: Yes.
Stephen Skorski: Okay, so we have this kind of foundation of… there's this idea of an archetype.
Stephen Skorski: And then you are focusing on specific archetypes.
katie: Yeah.
Stephen Skorski: That are meaningful to you, to your practice, to the people you work with.
Stephen Skorski: you just kind of mentioned, like, you know, the priestess being the archetype of this kind of upcoming season, so it sounds like things are really kind of…
Stephen Skorski: You're responding to nature, and kind of the cycles of a year.
Stephen Skorski: So yeah, so let's just, just kind of, just kind of go back to that just a smidge, like…
katie: Sure.
Stephen Skorski: This season is coming up.
Stephen Skorski: Because of these other, sort of, interests and kind of knowledge is, you know, like, wisdom.
Stephen Skorski: That you have, you're like, yeah, you know that this season is about…
Stephen Skorski: fill in the blank, you to fill in the blank, and then how might you, again, respond to
Stephen Skorski: making that oil, right? So, again, you kind of said it, but I'm just trying to really…
Stephen Skorski: Distill it down so someone else could imagine…
Stephen Skorski: How they might… how the… you know, how this could fit in their lives, whether they bought the oil.
Stephen Skorski: or whether they blended the oil, or whether they just smelled something or somebody out in the middle of nowhere. Or like, oh yeah, you know what I'm saying? Like, you know, so go ahead, so sorry. So, the season coming up is…
katie: No, that's okay. So, okay, let me back up just a little bit and say that…
katie: I work with a pre-existing calendar based in, kind of, ancient British Isles called the Wheel of the Year, and it's based on an agricultural calendar that just divides the year up into 8 seasons instead of 4.
katie: So you've got the solstices, the equinoxes, and then four seasons in between those, which they call the cross-quarter.
katie: holy days, and so there are… so it's a calendar that's been around forever, and a lot of people use it. It's not unique at all to my work. So the Wheel of the Year, and just where I live happens to have, like, real similar
katie: seasonal patterns to the British Isles, I guess, you know? The southern Appalachians, so…
katie: It's, you know, winter solstice is a lot like…
katie: is similar in both places, and so I understood in a deep way
katie: the archetypes of the seasons, right? Understood what summer solstice feels like and what winter solstice feels like as a psychology, not just a season.
katie: And so, and then, separately.
katie: once upon a time, I just did, like, a journal practice of…
katie: if I were… if I, Katie, were a formulaic recipe of archetypes.
katie: what would I be? And I wrote out 7 archetypes. I thought about it long and hard. This was when I was living out in the Yome, so I had a lot of time to think off the grid. So I wrote out these 7 archetypes, and I was like, yeah, this…
Stephen Skorski: Of 7 archetypes of what kind of makes you.
katie: Makes me, yeah. Like, I am these. I am these.
katie: And, because I just wanted to know that. I think I was in my early 30s.
katie: Fresh out of a Saturn return, you know, just like…
Stephen Skorski: who am I? Who even am I? And when you, and when you, again, I think we're… for some of us, you know, we kind of know exactly what you're talking about, and for others, like myself.
Stephen Skorski: I kinda… kinda know what you're talking about, but give me… give us a sense of, you know, how many archetypes are we selecting from?
Stephen Skorski: You know, are there just hundreds of these things that, you know, if you're steeped in this kind of world, you know, they're sort of, you know, pretty well known,
Stephen Skorski: But these are things that sort of are almost, like, pre-existing, and you're trying to figure out the formula that is you.
katie: Yeah, so there's, like, gazillions of archetypes, you know? At this point.
katie: like, I use as an example of dating myself at this point, but, like, the Sex and the City characters are archetypes, you know? Are you a Carrie, or are you a Samantha?
Stephen Skorski: Hmm.
katie: There are a lot of archetypes to zodiac.
katie: is archetypes, the, you know, a lot of archetypes, and so the way I learned about archetypes initially was literary, as a literary device, because I…
katie: got a degree in literature, and so I was probably thinking about it more in terms of a literary device. Like, what are my…
katie: characters.
katie: what are my, like, repeating patterns that I'm kind of always in one… I'm always wearing the, you know, guise of one of these characters, it seems like.
katie: Archetypally speaking.
katie: So I came up with these 7 that I felt like I was, to just get to know myself. And definitely, like.
katie: you know, through the literature degree, through other classes and experiences I'd been in, I heard these archetypes repeat just enough, and noticed that I would perk up when they were mentioned, that I…
katie: I just started paying attention, and I like the normal language of them versus, like, Aquarius. You know, if you'd never heard of astrology before, and someone said Aquarius, you'd be like, what?
Stephen Skorski: But if you've never heard of archetypes before, and I said queen.
katie: Like, you know queens? Pretty much everybody would be like, yeah, I know Queen… queen, yeah. Warrior? Okay, yeah, I can get behind that.
katie: you know, child? Okay, yeah, I get that, you know what I mean? So instead of using, like, specific archetypes, I just use, kind of.
katie: Characters, like, again, with the literary device.
katie: So then, I made oils for each of those just for myself, to be like, I just wanna…
katie: I don't know, play around, see if I can make certain parts of myself prominent.
katie: see if I can call upon different…
katie: Functionalities in a… in some kind of cool way.
katie: When I need it. And then I was like, oh, this whole thing overlays the wheel of the year, kind of in a very tidy way.
katie: Like, oh, interesting.
katie: each of these seven oils aligns with one of the seven seasons on the wheel of the year, leaving the 8th season, which is winter solstice, like, the void time. That's what we're in right now, is, like, kind of the sacred nothing. You know, no oil, no nothing, just rest.
katie: And so then… I had…
katie: Again, I was living in that, or practicing out of that artist studio, and it was in this old high school, which is beloved to the community and was just totally flooded by Hurricane Helene, but it is coming back.
katie: they're totally restoring it. And it was set up, you know, it's the old, K-12 school for that county. So it's, like, big old school with, big old hallways that connect the classrooms. So, long hallway, classrooms coming off the hallway. So, as a studio.
katie: you would just walk out of your studio, and there would be, like, somebody out in the hallway, having a conversation, or walking back to their studio, or whatever, and I would always be like, smell this! What do you think? What does this remind you of?
katie: I wouldn't tell them anything, because blind smelling is, like, my whole thing. Like, my whole basis for my business, but…
katie: I'd go out in the hallway and be like, smell this, what do you think? And the things that people would say back to me.
katie: like, I blended… this is widely known. Like, I blended the Girl Child oil to smell yellow.
katie: And to smell like laughter.
katie: Again, I like to use synesthesia. I take it out in the hallway.
katie: This dude that had a studio there at the time, he had a 2-year-old daughter. He smelled it, he goes, it smells like sunshine and happiness.
katie: Like, that's exactly it. Yellow and laughter, he just used slightly different words, you know? So I really, like…
katie: Field-tested it with this kind of blind-smelling thing of, like.
katie: like… like, another one I have is the Tantrica…
katie: And I took that one over to a friend's house, and there was a bunch of us girls gathered there, and I passed that around, and just, like, in no time at all, we were all hooting and hollering, and…
katie: And, like, the energy just shifted from just smelling it, you know, and it…
katie: So I was like, this works, you know, scent has…
katie: A profound biological function in the brain, and it has this amazing efficiency in affecting our mood.
katie: our behavior and our memories. So, if you… instead of everything being a happy accident, like, oh, Drakkar Noir now makes us smell like… makes us think of our boyfriends from the 90s.
katie: you harness it. You're like, I want to remember… I want to… I want to be able to invoke
katie: early February with a scent whenever I want to, or I want to be able to invoke this wisdom, or this memory, or whatever. Like, then you have this…
katie: tool. You know, then scent is a tool, and not just a happy accident. You start to, like.
katie: build a lot of efficiency, but also, like, beauty and pleasure. And also, I'll just add, like, my understanding is that our… our scent…
katie: Hang on, let me find the right words. Our cells in our brain that are responsible for smelling
katie: Are some of the only cells in the brain that are capable of neuro…
katie: Genesis. And so, we can regrow
katie: The parts of our brain where we… we smell.
katie: And so, we can grow our brains by smelling.
Stephen Skorski: Hmm.
katie: I mean, definitely fact-check that one, but like… I, I remember.
Stephen Skorski: No, no, everything said on this show is, 100% free.
katie: Yeah.
Stephen Skorski: ordained as truth.
katie: You don't even have to question us. I mean, we are the most trustworthy sort One has ever encountered.
katie: Yeah.
Stephen Skorski: Yeah, I feel like I should make one of those disclaimers. This is not financial advice.
katie: Right.
Stephen Skorski: Nobody here is a tax accountant.
katie: What did the kids say? I… I-M-O.
katie: In my opinion.
Stephen Skorski: Yeah, there you go.
katie: The whole thing is I-M-O.
Stephen Skorski: Hmm.
katie: So… No, I did read that somewhere.
Stephen Skorski: No, no, I think,
Stephen Skorski: It certainly sounds right, and if it's not.
Stephen Skorski: sort of verbally correct, it certainly… I think,
Stephen Skorski: philosophically right on, right? I mean…
katie: They spiritually correct, yes.
katie: Okay, so…
Stephen Skorski: I mean, everything you're talking about, I mean, we're, like, bordering on…
Stephen Skorski: things that would almost be described as, like, magic, right? I mean, the idea that you could evoke and invoke, or, you know… Yeah.
katie: Yeah, yeah.
Stephen Skorski: create these…
Stephen Skorski: whatever it is, right? I mean, you're either creating… you're recreating the past, you're creating the future. So if I understand it correctly, you know, you have… you're standing in… you're sitting in front of this… this organ.
Stephen Skorski: you're mixing up… you are mixing the archetype, right? You're, you know, it's not that you're saying, okay, well, lavender represents this archetype. Like, for you, you are kind of breaking that thing down, you know, whether it's a season or one of these archetypes you find within yourself.
Stephen Skorski: I'm gonna make one up, right, since obviously.
katie: So I think, you know, telling…
Stephen Skorski: Telling a complete, you know, audience,
Stephen Skorski: what your seven archetypes are is a little personal, so I'm just gonna make one up. Let's just say that one of them was,
Stephen Skorski: well, let's just say strength, right? Okay, let's just say strength. Is that in the realm, or would for you, something be, like, more like, no, no, I would have named it more like, you know, the queen, or like you said, like the priestess, like, you know, just help me so I can make the…
katie: Yeah.
Stephen Skorski: you know.
katie: Oh, beautiful.
Stephen Skorski: Strength, or, you know, give me one that you find better for me to use as an example.
katie: Yeah.
Stephen Skorski: Queen.
katie: Well, first of all, the archetypes are totally all over my website, and it's like, my whole business, I based on those 7, so they're not…
Stephen Skorski: secret.
Stephen Skorski: Okay, okay.
katie: secret.
Stephen Skorski: I didn't know how personal…
katie: No, I appreciate that, I appreciate that. But just so everyone knows, like, it's, you know, it's the whole thing, because I realize that everyone related to them, and that's why they were archetypes, but for your question, like.
katie: you know… Yeah, strength. That's a great one. You know, but there's so many types of strength, right? There's…
katie: There's really, really solid… Stable, still strength, like a rock.
katie: But then there's, like, flexible strength. Like, when we have these windstorms out here, and I'm watching these huge trees, I can't believe their range of motion.
katie: you know, swaying like crazy, they're strong, too. And so, if you were making an archetypal case for strength.
katie: You would have to consider all kinds of strength.
Stephen Skorski: There's the strength that is stable and still like a rock, and then there's also strength that is…
katie: Flexible like a tree, and then there's also strength that is enduring, like.
katie: the river carving out the Grand Canyon over and over and over.
katie: You know, there's so many kinds of strength, and that's when it becomes an archetype.
Stephen Skorski: Hmm.
katie: You know, is you build dimensionality into it.
Stephen Skorski: I mean, this is why I think collections are fascinating, right? And that's why they're fun to learn about.
Stephen Skorski: Because for most people, if you're not a collector, maybe you just don't kind of see it this way, maybe if you're a beginning collector, maybe you just haven't hit this kind of particular stage.
Stephen Skorski: But the idea that what you collect teaches you, right? And so, obviously, it's not,
Stephen Skorski: it's not passive, I mean, it's active learning, right? Obviously, if you're just, again, collecting salt and pepper shakers, and you never give it any other thought other than, I bought these things at a flea market, again, look at the nice mushrooms.
katie: Okay, that's.
Stephen Skorski: One thing, right? But if you start to…
Stephen Skorski: I mean, what you're talking about…
Stephen Skorski: And it's why it's, you know, let's face it, I mean, I think it's why we're, you know, we're kind of understanding a little better why this is, you know, makes up…
Stephen Skorski: A core part of you. Is that it's, it's, it's…
Stephen Skorski: It's stimulating internal conversations and questioning and coming up with answers and…
Stephen Skorski: clarifying, and I mean, I just find that that's so… I mean, what an amazing thing to get out of a collection, and the more we speak.
Stephen Skorski: The more I'm convinced that you are a collector.
Stephen Skorski: I think, from my point of view, it's the utility part.
katie: Yeah.
Stephen Skorski: It almost seems to be, you know, kind of muddying the waters, potentially.
Stephen Skorski: But, I mean, the idea that, like, you know, okay, so you're thinking, and… and so…
Stephen Skorski: you're thinking, and you're learning, and you're questioning, and okay, now there's, you know, 13 different types of strength that you can kind of come up with, and, you know, you kind of know, like, eventually I'm going to come across a 14th.
katie: Yeah.
Stephen Skorski: Say, you know, you go, okay, well.
Stephen Skorski: I am interested in this, in this flexible strength.
katie: Yes.
Stephen Skorski: Right, now, you… you mix this…
Stephen Skorski: Just briefly, you know, without giving away, you know, any.
katie: proprietary formulas or anything, but, like… Right.
Stephen Skorski: How would you sort of approach that, from almost like a technical point of view, right? You know, I think we understand the poetics behind it, but almost like the trial and error, or whatever you need to do, that's kind of point A.
Stephen Skorski: And then, let's just do that first. Just give us the technical, you know, what are you working with? Bowls?
katie: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Stephen Skorski: What's happening?
katie: Yeah, I love it. But also, before you asked me that question, you said so many things, and I wanted to say so many things in return, and I appreciate you being like, answer this question, because I really had a lot to say.
katie: Well, one thing I am gonna say really quick is, like, because of the utility.
katie: you know, would you… would… would you say I collect groceries? Like, I buy groceries and use them, I buy these oils and use them in my products, but anyway, back to your question.
Stephen Skorski: I will quickly answer. I would say yes. I would say yes if there was a certain intention.
katie: Okay.
Stephen Skorski: And the way in which you're buying groceries.
katie: Yeah, okay, because a grocery run is a curated experience, and it doesn't matter that you're going to consume it. Yeah. It's like, you're curating a collection of groceries.
Stephen Skorski: I mean, use shotgunning sour cream, which I know you.
katie: God! I don't know that that…
katie: In front of millions of people.
Stephen Skorski: Yeah.
katie: Aw, it has never been a shotgun, duh.
Stephen Skorski: Right.
katie: Oh my god.
Stephen Skorski: Anyway, yes, okay, so you're in front of your,
katie: Yes.
Stephen Skorski: Oregon, and how are you, how are you, how are you mixing up flexible strength?
katie: Flexible strength. So, first of all, the thing with essential oils is that they're almost all expensive, and they're all precious. It takes a lot of resources to make oils, so we don't really want to waste them with a lot of dropping and blending. So the first thing you do, actually.
katie: Is, so we use these, like, scent strips, if you can picture just, like, maybe something toothy, like watercolor paper, like.
katie: Like, a half an inch wide piece of… and maybe, like, 4 inches long piece of paper that would just hold a little bit of oil for you to smell.
katie: You would start by dropping the oils that you think you're gonna… well, actually, you start by just leaving the oils in the bottle, taking the lids off, and putting the bottles together. Like, you're gonna use 4 different oils, you just open the lids and smell all those open bottles together. That's the first thing you do. You don't waste any material at all.
katie: And if you're like, yeah, that's… that's cool. Now I want to get a little bit more specific and know what
katie: what the formula could shape up to be. Because when you blend essential oils, when you formulate essential oils, you're talking drops. Like, a drop. You blend, like.
katie: Something with maybe, like.
katie: at the most, 20 drops in it, like, your whole formula is composed of 20 drops, maybe. Some of my formulas are only 6 oils, like, 6 drops, and then you multiply from there.
katie: So, to determine the drops, you would put a little bit… you put a drop of oil on each scent strip, so if you're working with 4 oils, you'd have 4 scent strips, and then you're literally holding them all together under your nose.
katie: And then some of them, you're holding them farther and farther away, because they're very strong, and you want less of it.
katie: So you have this, like, lineup under your nose, your eyes are closed.
katie: You're moving these scent strips, like, away from your nose, further and further, or closer and closer, and you're smelling that.
katie: And you get kind of this mental image of, like.
katie: okay, this is how I want these to show up. And when I'm teaching an aromatherapy class, I teach these, like, intuitive aromatherapy classes for… there's an herb school around town where I teach.
katie: I, in some other places, I say, you know, do you want this to be…
katie: the metaphor just went right out of my head. Do you want this to be, like, Gladys Knight and the pips? In other words, do you want an oil to be, like, the front runner, and then everybody else's backup?
katie: Or do you want this to be like, and now you give me a band where they all sing together? What's a good band where they all sing together?
Stephen Skorski: the Eagles.
katie: The Eagles… fuck, I must have said that, and I was like…
Stephen Skorski: And we're not dating ourselves at all, by the way.
katie: At all, no. You should see the people go, who the hell is Gladys Knight and the Pips? And then I'm like, you need to educate yourself, because you can't not know that.
katie: So, your blend is either, like.
katie: You know, you mentioned lavender earlier, so let's say you're blending something that's going to be very easily recognizably lavender-y, but then there's all these, like, supporting oils under it that kind of
katie: Amplify it, or boost it, or alter it in such a way that is so… is still very beautiful, but it's…
katie: They are still there, but really all they're doing is supporting the lavender.
katie: you know, Gladys Knight.
katie: And so, that's one way to blend something. And then the other way is to just make a completely different animal.
katie: Which almost all of my blends are.
katie: And one of my favorite games that has developed over the years is telling people that they're right or wrong about what they're smelling in the blend, because…
katie: you know, people always like to go, mmm, lavender, and I'm like, there's no lavender in this. I have one oil that everyone goes, mmm, mint, there's no mint in it.
Stephen Skorski: And it's an interesting… we don't have to get into this, but, like, it's an interesting little…
katie: sort of adventure into the mind of, like, well, how…
katie: wed to certainty, are you? Like, how much of…
katie: this… how important is that? And then also.
katie: How important is it that you're identifying a component? And the example I use is, like, if you went up to a painting and you pointed out that
katie: You saw yellow in the painting, like, unless you were…
katie: you know, visually impaired. That just wouldn't be an interesting thing to…
katie: notice. You know, like, oh my god, there's yellow in this painting.
katie: Like, nobody's gonna stop the presses, no one's impressed. So, the same is true for, like, pointing out a component of a scent blend, or even food, for that matter. It's like, yeah, cool, there's yellow in the painting, so what? What are you feeling? What is the artist feeling? Like, there's a lot to talk about, not…
katie: The yellow paint, you know?
Stephen Skorski: Yeah, yeah. Yeah, there's a lot… there's a lot of parallels between what you're talking about and sort of color vision.
katie: Yeah.
Stephen Skorski: And you're right, exact,
Stephen Skorski: Okay, so, okay, so you are… you're mixing this thing up. You got your bottles, you smell them kind of like in the bottles together first, then you're putting drops on the… the strips, and you're kind of, you know, kind of getting close and far away, and, you know, and so…
Stephen Skorski: I'm assuming, as this goes on, you're kind of maybe, sort of, let me take this one, let me take this drop out, let me park… Yes. Okay. And so you finally get to,
Stephen Skorski: and again, like, the magic of how the selection, right? I mean, this definitely gets into… first of all, we're definitely going to have a part two of this.
katie: point, because…
Stephen Skorski: I mean, because, I mean, like, literally, this is where the door opens to this discussion of creativity.
katie: Yeah, yeah.
Stephen Skorski: which will… I mean, that's, you know, that's the next episode that we talk about, right? Yeah. Or at least one of the things, but without opening that door too much.
Stephen Skorski: Let's just say you have… you have made decisions, and now you have come to this moment where you're like, yes, this is the blend.
Stephen Skorski: Okay? What… what do you do? Let's just say this is something that you are going to make for yourself.
katie: Yeah.
Stephen Skorski: for the upcoming season? Is it just… now you have these 6 drops, and you… do you add something to this? Do you…
katie: Yeah.
Stephen Skorski: Do you just add more drops? Like, how exactly does this happen?
katie: Oh, I love it. This is great. See, you're like… you're like an aromatherapy student, you just didn't even know it.
katie: So you always want to dilute essential oils.
katie: So, we're always gonna add it to a carrier oil, like jojoba.
katie: Oil, we're gonna add it to salt, we're gonna add it to, like… we're gonna make a mask or something, you know, like a clay base.
katie: always add…
katie: always dilute essential oil, and that just saves the skin, and it also extends the material, right? So, if it's diluted, we can use a… we have more essential oil to use later. It's not as expensive.
katie: So, if I'm blending something for myself.
katie: I've got a formula in my head of, like, you know, if I'm blending 1 ounce of something like a massage oil, something that I'm gonna put all over my skin, not just little touches of perfume, but, like, all over.
katie: I'm gonna put, like, maybe… 15 drops or so.
katie: Total into an ounce of carrier oil, like… Sesame.
katie: But if I'm blending an anointing oil, which is like a perfume, I might put,
katie: Like, 40 drops into… an ounce, or more, you know? Just depending on the coverage, right?
katie: A bath, like, if you're putting oils into bath salts, you're gonna put a ton in there, because…
katie: It's gotta be diluted into a whole bathtub worth of water.
Stephen Skorski: Hmm.
katie: So, the salt is gonna smell like, holy moly, there's a lot of oil in this, but yet it has to be in, like, gallons and gallons of water eventually, some point, you know?
katie: So you're always thinking about, like, dilution, and how do you want
katie: the oils to show up in the end product. So, if I'm making something for myself, my drops are gonna stay around, like, 10, 15 drops total.
katie: If I'm making a batch, then I have to get my calculator out.
katie: And I start, doing some math.
katie: of, like, You know, looking at, like, ounces of oils or milliliters of oils.
katie: And then I'm using, graduated cylinder for that.
Stephen Skorski: Okay, okay, so, okay, so that, that's awesome. I mean, we, I think, I think we got a pretty good…
Stephen Skorski: So now you have… okay, so now we're gonna shift gears, just a touch, from the technical back to the poetic, I think, right? So you've made this oil, you've made strength, and not just strength, you've made flexible strength.
katie: Flexible strength.
Stephen Skorski: Right. Now, is this… is this… and… and so, is this something that…
Stephen Skorski: you know, you have, you know, whatever, 4, 5, 10, 20 of these things that now are in front of you, right? So you had your organ, which was sort of like the individual components, I mean, that's like the recipe station, then somewhere else, or maybe it's, you know, I don't know, close by, you have this rack of
Stephen Skorski: oils, these archetype oils that you've created, and in my mind, like, what I'm picturing, and I want you to kind of tell me if this is true or not.
Stephen Skorski: It's, you know, it's a Tuesday, And you need to…
Stephen Skorski: go… I don't know. You're gonna… you know that you have a meeting that day that might be slightly confrontational, you kinda.
katie: the UK.
Stephen Skorski: You kind of know what's coming, but you want to handle it with, you know, kind of…
Stephen Skorski: all the, kind of grace and, dignity you can deal with it with, because maybe this is a difficult person. Do you reach for this oil and put it on, and throughout the day, it kind of gives you this thing that you're thinking about, or am I, like, way off base?
katie: No, you're exactly, exactly right, and that's why I call the oils tools.
katie: Is because it… it kind of steadies your consciousness, or it… it directs your focus
katie: Or it reminds you of your capacity In this, like.
katie: really specific way, and also this legitimately biological way, like.
katie: you know, when we smell something, we're not just having, like, emotion about it, our nervous system is getting involved. So, when they say lavender is calming.
katie: Like, yes, it has components in it that would make any body calm, even if you didn't have a sense of smell.
katie: But if you build the association with lavender as calming, when you smell it, your whole nervous system is calming, or your whole nervous system feels steeled and strong and flexible.
katie: So, when you're using these oils as tools, what you're actually doing is, like, training your brain and training your nervous system to have this, like, immediate fluid
katie: fluency With the scent, so that when you need to be…
katie: Solid, because you're gonna be around someone confrontational.
katie: You smell this oil, and it's not Dumbo's magic feather. It's… you are. You have influenced your nervous system in this very biological way.
katie: And so that's why I call them tools, and I think it is magic.
katie: it's like earthling magic. It's like figuring out these, like, cool…
katie: I guess maybe the kids would call them hacks, you know? Like, for the body, and for the psyche, and the whole system.
katie: where…
katie: you can really help yourself in this way that seems magic. Seems magical, that you smell this oil and suddenly you're clear, you smell this oil and suddenly you're resilient, or suddenly you're fun.
katie: Yes.
Stephen Skorski: Suddenly, you're fun, I love that.
katie: Yes, I have an oil, and suddenly you're fun. Yes. I mean, it's no joke. Like, I will be in a circle passing around all these oils, and I'll pass certain ones around, and I can just be like, 3, 2, 1. Everybody's giggling.
katie: And they don't… that's, again, why I use the blind smelling so much, is because…
katie: There's so much more gravity And so much more trust when… You smell an oil.
katie: Have a reaction or a response to it, have a whole narrative about it, and then learn what it is. And then learn that its intention is exactly what you just experienced. Like, everybody's having fun then.
katie: Instead of, this oil will make you feel strong. Yes, I believe this oil will make me feel strong. That's different. That's like hypnosis or something, you know? That's Dumbo's magic feather.
katie: You know.
Stephen Skorski: Yes, yes.
katie: So if you… but if you don't tell people what it is.
katie: and they still have that response, then you're like, I don't even need to tell you what it is, you are living it.
Stephen Skorski: Yeah.
katie: It is just happening!
katie: You know?
Stephen Skorski: Ugh. Okay,
Stephen Skorski: Yeah, I mean, it's… it's really… I mean, it really is fascinating, I mean, I gotta say, like…
Stephen Skorski: I mean, it just… I love…
Stephen Skorski: I just love this idea of this collection, and I am gonna put that name onto it.
katie: Do it. I… I… I approve. It's a collection.
Stephen Skorski: Well, and I guess in my brain, like, I think… I think the reason it sort of…
Stephen Skorski: enters the realm of collect… I mean, there's a lot of reasons why, you know, the display, right? The way you talked about how beautiful
Stephen Skorski: you know, somebody else's display. I mean, I think… I think collecting, often, there is kind of this display element to it, not just for yourself, but for other people, there's certainly a very strong emotional component.
Stephen Skorski: to a, to, to a collection, you, obviously, we've definitely nailed that one.
Stephen Skorski: it teaches, you know, while you're kind of interacting with it, I mean, I think that maybe doesn't need to be,
Stephen Skorski: you know, it doesn't need to be an element of every collection, but I think ones that are meaningful, it probably is. You know, I think I could go on and on,
Stephen Skorski: But I also know that if you were to encounter an oil, That you hadn't encountered before.
Stephen Skorski: That helped you to be more fluent in this language.
Stephen Skorski: You would want it.
Stephen Skorski: And you would add it.
Stephen Skorski: to the grouping. Maybe we don't call it a collection, but you… we would add
Stephen Skorski: This grouping of bottles that you already have.
Stephen Skorski: And so, yeah, I mean, it's… it's… so, I guess what I'm getting at is… I think…
Stephen Skorski: I'm kind of convinced that this is something
Stephen Skorski: I would be interested in, and probably a lot of people would be interested in. So…
katie: Yeah.
Stephen Skorski: I do have a bigger question.
katie: Okay.
Stephen Skorski: That, that will kind of wrap things up a bit.
Stephen Skorski: But before I ask that question, I just want to kind of hit you with some… Quick.
Stephen Skorski: almost like technical questions, right? So again, imagine you're, you know, you're 16, or you're 28, or you're 65, and you're listening to this, and you go, God, every… you know, so much of what was just said is something I think I'd be really interested in.
katie: And I think I'd like to kind of…
Stephen Skorski: test the waters a bit, okay? So again, these are just kind of, like, quick hitters,
Stephen Skorski: One, is there a typical starter version
Stephen Skorski: for someone, you know, like, if someone listens to this, they go, yeah, I want to try this.
Stephen Skorski: Is there… is there a starter pack?
Stephen Skorski: Of oils that they would buy, that they could start to experiment with.
katie: Yeah, I mean, in this day and age, so many stores sell essential oils. You don't have to, like, mail order them, like, back in the day.
katie: I mean, I would just go to your local… probably everyone lives near, like, a Whole Foods or some kind of health food type store, and just have fun smelling the oils that they have.
katie: And buy some of those. Like…
katie: They're not gonna have anything crazy rare or expensive. They're gonna have a pretty…
katie: standard, accessible little collection right there. They're probably gonna have, like, 10 essential oils.
katie: And just smell them, and whichever one lights you up, get it.
Stephen Skorski: Okay. And would you, would you recommend that,
Stephen Skorski: I guess kind of in the context that we're talking about, would you recommend that they buy things that have already been blended, or…
Stephen Skorski: You know, you know, so, you know, you recommend, like, oh yeah, go in there and buy, you know, that little bottle that says Calm on it from, you know, Bed Bath & Beyond or whatever, or you're like, no, no, no, no, buy, buy lavender, and then buy, you know, cardamom on.
katie: Yeah.
katie: I think it depends on, like, a couple things. So, if you got, you know, turned on by this, and you're just like, I want the magic of essential oils.
katie: then, yes, go buy pre-blended things and just make sure they're blended with essential oils. So that's your project. You know, like, if you're one of the people listening, and you're like, I just want to use essential oil stuff, then your project is just to read the ingredients of whatever you're buying, whether it's a little blend or bathing salt, and just make sure it's essential oils, and then you're good to go.
katie: But if you're listening to this and you're like, I like the kind of mad scientist part of this, I want to formulate and blend, then you're looking at buying, like, individual oils. Or, if you just want to, like, kind of get plant spirit medicine with it and really get to know
katie: a plant through its aromatic, properties, then you would want, like, one bottle of cardamom, and just, like.
katie: vibe up. You know, with that, you're just gonna be kind of in a…
katie: A conversation, with that cardamom, learning it, listening to it.
katie: And then, you're working with terroir, and this is where a collection gets really cool, is you're ordering, like.
katie: for example, I have one company that I like to order from because they'll have lavender, for example, from, like, 5 different countries. So you can get terroir, like you do with wine.
katie: with essential oils. So, in other words, the land and the elements of the land are influencing the plant. It's the same exact plant, the same genus and species, the same plant, but the essential oil smells completely different because of the terroir.
katie: So, you can really nerd out and go deep.
katie: With oil collecting.
Stephen Skorski: I think you just made the, that's gonna be the Instagram, you know, little, little, little, little, audio clip,
katie: Because that's so fascinating. That's… right? And then, and then if you get really into this, and you look up Mandy Aftel, who I mentioned earlier.
katie: She is someone who… proper…
katie: Like, how do I want to say this? Like, if there's been a perfume collector, or even a botanical materials collector who is
katie: Died, or they're done with their collection, they call her first.
Stephen Skorski: Hmm.
katie: And so she has, like.
katie: old patchouli, you know, like, something that is meant to age, base notes age really well. You can go to her place and smell, like, 100-year-old or older patchouli.
Stephen Skorski: Wow.
katie: Like, she has an insane… she has a museum.
katie: She made a scent museum.
katie: Out of her… garage.
katie: In Berkeley, it's ama- she is devoted, she is a true collector.
katie: Yeah, she has an actual, legitimate museum of scent, and a collection of scent, and every now and then.
katie: If you're collecting, she'll release A rare scent on her website, and you can buy it.
Stephen Skorski: Wow.
katie: Yeah, it's really cool.
Stephen Skorski: Yeah.
Stephen Skorski: Yeah, you… more and more, you're convincing me that this is a collection.
Stephen Skorski: Right, I mean, well, you know, again, when you say things like that, okay, so…
Stephen Skorski: What, what would you say, you know, someone getting into this, world, what might be some of the common mistakes that you would want them to be like, hey, yeah, just avoid that, like…
katie: Dude, these are good questions you're asking.
katie: Yeah, so you wanna… you're basically just wanting to make sure that you're buying really quality essential oils.
katie: So, you want to buy oils that are, like, not all the same price, like, you want all the prices to be different, because…
katie: The price indicates the yield and the harvest of the essential oil, so, like, citrus should never cost the same as rose, or something like that, so…
katie: All different prices. You want to make sure the label has, like, the Latin name, the country of origin, the method of extraction on it.
katie: In my opinion, I would avoid any multi-level marketing companies that are selling essential oils.
katie: So no pyramid scheme oils.
katie: And, let's see, what else?
katie: I think a common mistake, I don't think it's as prevalent as it was back in the day, but…
katie: You want to make sure you're buying just a bottle of essential oil, and not essential oil that's in
katie: carrier oil or in alcohol. You want to make sure it's only essential oil.
Stephen Skorski: Okay. And what you're gonna find at, like, the Whole Foods or something is…
katie: a pretty decent collection of oils that would get you started, but, you know, one way that this… I'm relenting, this is a collection, is that what you're doing is you're…
katie: In the same way that someone would collect wine or something that has,
katie: what am I trying to say here? Better and better… Quality of taste.
katie: The same is true for essential oils. So, like, go buy a bottle of anything, as long as it's just essential oil in the bottle. And then go buy that same essential oil. Let's just say you just… everybody listening decides to start with cardamom, because I said it.
katie: Start a cardamom collection. That would be.
Stephen Skorski: the coolest.
katie: thing that you could do is start collecting cardamoms so that you are like.
katie: okay, this company consistently has better cardamom. Go with them. And then, consistently, I like the cardamom that's out of… I don't remember where my cardamom is from right now, Madagascar.
katie: Versus Egypt. I like the Madagascar cardamom. Then you just feel like the most specific badass ever, because you're like, I prefer Egyptian cardamom. Like, who doesn't want to say that?
Stephen Skorski: I love that. I mean, you know my feeling on, like, you know, the generic, hey, let's all get into microbrews, you know?
katie: Yes.
Stephen Skorski: You know, like, all of a sudden, everybody and their mom is, you know, wearing beard oil or whatever, like…
katie: Yes.
Stephen Skorski: I love the fact that, yeah, that would… and yes, if someone… if I got into a conversation with somebody, and they started telling me why their cardamom from Madagascar, you know, really, you know, kind of…
Stephen Skorski: Touch them in a way that cardamom from,
Stephen Skorski: you know, whatever the base of the house, whatever, you know.
katie: Even cardamom just doesn't blend with vanilla as well as in Madagascar.
Stephen Skorski: Oh, no.
katie: That's so good. Yeah, oh man, that's awesome. It's the same as any sommelier, any whiskey collector, it's like they're… they're aware… so the… the act of collecting…
katie: makes… the act of collecting is just all about variations on a theme, right? Like, how many salt and pepper shakers can you possibly have?
Stephen Skorski: Yeah.
katie: Lots, and that's the fun of it. But the focus on the variation of the theme ultimately attunes you to
katie: Very subtle nuances.
katie: of that theme that most people would miss. So, like, if you've never had wine before, and you drink 3 different glasses of wine right in front of you, you're like, I mean, it all tastes like wine, I guess?
Stephen Skorski: But, like, a sommelier is, like, can…
katie: Pinpoint the differences, because…
katie: They've been collecting not only the wines, but the experience of that information in their brain, and they're very attuned to those nuances.
katie: Same with essential oils, like, same with any kind of sensory collection, maybe.
katie: Well, I guess every collection is sensory, but…
Stephen Skorski: Right, but this is… this is elevated in a way that's… it's the focus, right? It's not… I mean, that's what's interesting about this, is it's not… many collections are, at least on the surface,
Stephen Skorski: visual… like, it's dominated by the visual, right? I mean, the visual is really the thing that's gonna jump out at you first, where in this case, right, I mean, you know, maybe you might put them in very pretty, you know, and interesting bottles, and you know, that's another part of the whole collecting and collection that we haven't even gone into.
Stephen Skorski: Which we'll save for, again, an additional episode. But just, you know, we did talk about the organ, you know, and how that's displayed, but…
Stephen Skorski: you know, the bottles that you could buy, right? I mean, I, you know, really, there's so much about the display of this thing, but in general.
Stephen Skorski: the… The focus is on this, you know, act of scent, or the act of smelling, you know,
Stephen Skorski: So…
Stephen Skorski: you talked a little bit about… you kind of touched upon it, so maybe just tell me if I'm correct in these statements.
Stephen Skorski: Cost, Knowledge… Kind of where you live, very low barriers in that regard.
katie: at least.
Stephen Skorski: to get into it. Would we say that that's correct?
katie: Totally.
Stephen Skorski: Under $100, you could, like…
katie: Whoa!
katie: You could have a collection for under $100. Okay.
Stephen Skorski: Okay, fantastic.
Stephen Skorski: ethical considerations, I think that's, you know, kind of things that you were talking about might be on the bottle themselves, like a…
katie: where… I think that's why you kind of brought up, like, where it came from, what the extraction methods are. Am I correct in saying that? Yeah, so the country of origin would be important, just, you know, if you were having, like, any kind of,
katie: If you knew of any, like, political thing or environmental thing that would make you want to lean toward or away from a certain country, but also the idea that
katie: a lot of essential oils are monocropped, meaning, like, it's one crop over acres and acres of land, and a lot of that… so that's kind of not great for the environment, you know? And then there's…
katie: An argument that you'd want to use
katie: Organic essential oils, because you at least don't want the acres and acres of land sprayed with pesticides, and
katie: there's the idea that pesticides are potentially, like, lipophilic, meaning oil bonding, and you're using essential oils, so there could be traces of lipophilic pesticides in them, so I also try to get organic or wild harvested
katie: essential oils when possible. So that's another, like, environmental concern, is just… and those are gonna be more expensive, just like vegetables that are organic are more expensive, but it's the same…
katie: kind of… It's the same ethic.
Stephen Skorski: Okay, okay, so, so for somebody who, you know, this is important,
Stephen Skorski: In their collection, you know,
Stephen Skorski: number one, you know, you're looking at the la… A, make sure it's labeled in a way that has information. I mean, unless you're, like, literally at the source, you know, that kind of thing.
katie: Right.
Stephen Skorski: window and, you know, see the field. And a couple of things you're looking for, one, like you said, sort of maybe geographic regions that you may want to support or not support.
Stephen Skorski: But maybe more… more common, might be things like…
Stephen Skorski: organic, non-organic, the monocropping, I mean, is that something that you would be able to tell on a label, or is that something you would have to ask the person who was selling you.
katie: It… it just… it can… you can just assume it. Just assume it. Oh, okay.
Stephen Skorski: Like, unless it's, like, a…
katie: a conifer needle, you know, that comes from the forest. Like, this is something that is grown like wheat is grown, or soybeans are grown. It's like…
katie: Acres and acres of whatever it is, you know?
Stephen Skorski: So if it says wildly, or wild harvest, that means it's not.
katie: Right, that means it's just…
katie: You know, usually conifers are gonna be wild harvested, and that means that they just go up into the forests of Canada in the dead of winter.
katie: When the conifers are producing tons of essential oil, and they're just harvesting the boughs of the trees.
Stephen Skorski: That grow in the woods, so that's…
katie: Wild, you know?
katie: Usually, Tree, anything that's, like… another topic that we can get into another time is, like, the,
katie: The morphology of the oil, so…
katie: Like, you could… you could find essential oil in the leaves, or the bark, or the wood, or the roots, or the fruit peel, you know, it's all over the…
katie: plant, so you would… if you were getting really into that, which is, like, a whole course of study that I teach and like to practice, you'd want to make sure that whoever you're buying the essential oils from says where on the plant it's from, too.
Stephen Skorski: Hmm.
katie: So, that just adds another step.
Stephen Skorski: No, that's… that's awesome. I mean.
katie: Yeah.
Stephen Skorski: You know, Episode 2 is Deep Dive, you know.
katie: Yeah, episode 2.
Stephen Skorski: I'm sure there's some people who are like, deep dive, my god, you've been talking for 2 hours about the same frickin' thing. Exactly. Like, have you met us?
Stephen Skorski: This is…
katie: Nothing!
Stephen Skorski: I was gonna say, that's funny, right? I mean, this is definitely a window into,
katie: This is a fraction.
Stephen Skorski: Oh my god. But this is actually, I mean, again, for me, this is actually very fun, because it is so focused. You know, as I mentioned kind of earlier.
Stephen Skorski: Okay, a couple other of these kind of quick hitters that have.
katie: Okay.
Stephen Skorski: With, well, a quick hitter in what we were just talking about.
Stephen Skorski: Fakes, forgeries, things of that nature. Something we need to worry about, how do we tell, or not really something you need to kind of concern yourself with.
katie: I love it! Fakes and forgeries.
katie: Yeah, I think that these days.
katie: I don't think there's a lot of fake essential oil out there. Like, if it says lavender essential oil, it's probably gonna be that.
katie: But people just need to know to distinguish between fragrance oil or perfume oil versus essential oil or botanical perfumery. So, fragrance oil and perfume oil is the industry term for synthetic.
Stephen Skorski: Oh, okay. Wow, that's awesome. So, yeah, so if you… if you're looking at a little bottle.
katie: And it… it… it looks like it's got the, you know, same bottle type that all the essential oils have and everything.
katie: You still want to make sure it's not fragrance oil if you don't want fragrance oil. Some people do. So, you know, no shade on that, I'm just saying, like, if you're not wanting it, just make sure you're not buying
katie: fragrance or perfume oil.
katie: Because, you know, some people have, like, skin sensitivities and allergies and stuff, and you just have to be really careful about what you put on your skin and what you breathe into your lungs.
Stephen Skorski: And so if you're putting perfume oil.
katie: into a diffuser, you're not breathing in essential oil. You're breathing in something synthetic, like a… you know, I don't know if it's neces… I'm not trying to say it's, like, bad, it's just not essential oil, so…
katie: Yeah, fakes would be that, and then, you know, there's a lot, a lot, a lot of misinformation around aromatherapy and essential oils, because it's not a regulated
katie: field. Like, essential oils kind of came into the country, I learned this from a teacher, and I thought it was an accurate way to say it. It's kind of like in the…
katie: gift shop genre. You know, less pharmaceutical, or medicinal, or even herbal, and more of, like, a little gifty thing.
katie: And so, it didn't really get regulated.
katie: So, in an attempt to legitimize it.
katie: over the years, people would use things like, use phrases like therapeutic grade. That's not a thing.
katie: That's a… that's a fake. There's no such thing as therapeutic grade, but it's a term that gets, thrown around a lot.
katie: By certain companies, just to… as an attempt to…
katie: legitimize, you know, their product. So, therapeutic grade's not a thing.
Stephen Skorski: Okay, okay, that's great. That's actually funny, because I kind of thought that was almost a throwaway question, but you said some things in there that are really, really, really helpful. So just to recap, tell me… just, just, the words that would mean it's synthetic are…
katie: Perfume oil or fragrance oil?
Stephen Skorski: Okay, and if it's not synthetic, it's kind of… not that it would be everything else, but it should say essential oil?
katie: It should say essential oil…
katie: Or, like, there's… it depends on the method of extraction, so you could also have…
katie: a CO2 extract, or an Atar, or an infusion, there's variations on the theme, but in terms of just that
katie: Starting collection under $100, you're looking for…
katie: Steam distilled essential oils, or in the case of citrus, Cold-pressed essential oils.
Stephen Skorski: Awesome.
katie: There's also no such thing as fruit essential oil. There's not plum
katie: essential oil, or apple essential oil. So if someone has you smelling a perfume, and they're like, I used apple, it's a fake.
Stephen Skorski: Okay, alright, that, alright, that, that's, okay, that's awesome. It's very interesting. Okay.
Stephen Skorski: storage…
Stephen Skorski: damages, protecting, you know, kind of all in that little basket. I have my, you know, I've spent my…
Stephen Skorski: whatever, 60 bucks. Yeah. I have, I have my, essential oils, I'm happy with where they were sourced, how they were sourced, or extracted. You know, I'm really excited about these things. How do I keep them?
Stephen Skorski: And make sure I do… you know, I don't damage them, right? Like, what… you know, what do I need to do? Is there something special I need to do, or can I just put them anywhere in my house?
katie: Dude, these are such good questions. Yes, there's a bunch of stuff you have to do to protect essential oils, so…
katie: When you're thinking about your essential oils.
katie: you have to think of them as produce. It's like liquid plant. And so, they're eventually gonna go bad.
katie: just because they are botanical. And so, to slow that natural composting process down.
katie: you're gonna keep them away from light, heat, and air. So the way to keep them away from light is they need to be in an amber bottle, not in a windowsill. You know, so a colored glass bottle, amber's vest.
katie: Not in direct light. So don't line up your essential oils in your windowsill.
Stephen Skorski: Hmm.
katie: Keep them in a nice little shelf cupboard. The way to keep them away from heat is don't have them, like, on your car dashboard or on your radiator.
katie: It's gonna make them go bad, so just keep them, like.
katie: just sort of room temperature or cooler, you know? A way to keep them away from air is to keep them in smaller and smaller and smaller bottles, so there's not a bunch of air space on the top of the bottle.
katie: Like, you can picture a bottle that's full and a bottle that's half full. A bottle that's half full is half full of air, and so…
katie: As you are going down in the level of your bottle.
katie: over a short period of time, you don't have to worry about it. Like, under 3 years.
katie: For everything except for citrus, citrus goes off faster than the other ones. For everything but citrus, you can do whatever you want in terms of the air in the bottle.
katie: But after, I mean, maybe even 2 years, that air is gonna start to do some funky things, and you're going to want to decant that oil, just pour it into a smaller bottle to get that air out of there.
Stephen Skorski: Okay.
katie: So, if you buy a little thumb-sized bottle from Whole Foods of oil.
katie: just use it. That's the other thing, is essential oils… this is where it becomes a collection and not a collection.
katie: use them, because they'll change and they won't be as good, unless it's a base oil, and then you can find those in the tombs of Egypt. But if it's, like.
katie: If it's a flour oil, any of the, like, lighter oils, you want to use it.
Stephen Skorski: So you can't buy…
katie: An expensive thing of chamomile.
katie: And then, 15 years later.
katie: still have it. You can't have your cake and eat it, too, with essential oils. You have to just use them and buy more.
katie: They won't… they won't hold.
Stephen Skorski: I love that. I love the… I love anytime someone can reference cake,
Stephen Skorski: Eat your cake, right? I mean, it's exactly… I mean, like, literally, you're saying eat your cake. You can't put it in the refrigerator.
katie: Eat your cake. Eat your frickin' cake. The… that's the deal with collecting essential oils. You eat the… you have to eat the cake. Yep.
Stephen Skorski: Eat the cake. Okay, so last, last question in this little, this little kind of group of, you know, someone who just wants to kind of figure it out and get right into it.
Stephen Skorski: Is there something that… You know, and your peers as, you know, we would consider experts.
Stephen Skorski: Something that you're looking for, looking at…
Stephen Skorski: Considering that a beginner wouldn't generally Kind of think about.
katie: Oh, interesting.
katie: I think maybe I would…
katie: Okay, for example, there's this one company I like to order from, Eden Botanicals. I highly recommend, if anyone's interested in starting
katie: a serious collection. They're amazing.
Stephen Skorski: Can I… hey, can I ask you a question, then? I mean, is this…
katie: Yeah.
Stephen Skorski: show notes, can I put a few, a few.
katie: Yeah.
Stephen Skorski: Thanks to some of the sources that you find to be…
katie: Oh, yeah.
Stephen Skorski: reputable? Okay, cool.
katie: Yeah, that's a big company. That's not, like, my secret farmer or something like that. That's, like, a…
katie: Sounds like a nice, big company.
Stephen Skorski: Okay, so…
Stephen Skorski: In the show notes, we will put, places of, reputable, reputable spots to… to get some of these things. Okay, great.
katie: Yeah, yeah, yeah, and I've got a couple other sources I can give you after, but…
katie: I think that someone just starting out would be maybe, like, overwhelmed or intimidated by just the sheer number of oils available, and they might be, like.
katie: Tempted to kind of dismiss some of them, just because they… they would just have to, like, learn what the even word is, and…
katie: You know, look into it.
katie: in a… in a way that they're not ready yet, and so… more than, like, quality or a country, I'm not that good. Like, probably… again, probably Mandy would be like, you know.
katie: Cardamom from Madagascar? Well, we haven't seen that since 1936! Like, you know, I don't know that, but somebody like her would.
katie: But, you know, I would be like, they have oris root, something like that, you know, whereas someone just starting would be like, I don't want oris root, what even is oris root? But, if you came over, and you were hanging out in my apothecary, and we were drinking tea, and I was like, smell this.
katie: And then you were like, what's that? That just… you know, I just saw stars, and I was like, Oris root.
katie: And you're like, I'm gonna get some of that.
katie: You know, it's very sensory, and weird, and that's one of the reasons that I love studying. I'm totally plugging Mandy a bunch here, but,
katie: one of the ways that she teaches is she just lets you have access to her full organ, and she has hundreds
katie: of oils, and she has the weirdest stuff you have ever heard of, and you can just smell it. Like, you're not buying it, you're not taking it home, you're just, like, giving it to your brain for a second. Like, this is a thing.
katie: death… like, okay, there's this… there's this oil called… this is not botanical, but it is, carbon-based. It's called Choia Nak.
katie: And it is the essence of burnt seashells.
Stephen Skorski: Oh, wow.
katie: Like, why would you want that? And then you smell it, and you're like, I only want this. Or like… like, it's just weird, just weird stuff that… I think when you're first starting out, you're like.
katie: Just kind of getting things that might be more familiar.
Stephen Skorski: Or you're…
katie: like, one thing I… this isn't what you asked, but one thing I would recommend is, like.
katie: Like, for example, with citruses, just get all the citruses, let that be your whole collection.
Stephen Skorski: And just be like, oh my god, like, one of the exercises I would have.
katie: students do sometimes with, like, just working with synesthesia is I would give them
katie: scent strips with, like, all the citrus oils I had, which would be maybe, like, 6 or 8 at the time, and I would say, arrange these according to musical notes.
katie: And they would!
Stephen Skorski: That's awesome.
katie: And it would work, you know? It's like… so, like, you know, have fun with, like, flights of things, you know, like, all the citrus oils, or, like, every lavender that this company sells from all these countries, just get the lavenders.
katie: And just see, you know, like, what's… what are their… again, like, noticing the nuances.
Stephen Skorski: Yeah.
katie: the, the variations.
Stephen Skorski: I mean, it's so fun because… what's that? Sorry.
katie: No, I just said nuances of the teams, it's okay.
Stephen Skorski: nuances of a theme. Yeah, no, I think that's something that…
Stephen Skorski: you know, first of all, there's tons of stuff that I didn't know that you talked about today that really is so… which is fascinating, really intriguing, you know, it kind of makes you want to know more, but I think…
Stephen Skorski: Probably the biggest… Takeaway, for me…
Stephen Skorski: is… well, the storytelling, I think, is… that was… that's a mind-blower to me, I love that. I love that, and not just… but the storytelling over time, you know, that… the layers and the unfolding, and, you know, that's… my God, that's amazing. Yeah. But if there was a second kind of point to that, it is the nuance.
Stephen Skorski: And… meaning you could sort of start a collection, or continue a collection.
Stephen Skorski: in a really, really personal way. Like, it's not a matter of just, like, oh, go buy these 50.
Stephen Skorski: And now your collection is finished, but in fact, you know, there's so many different ways that you can
Stephen Skorski: You know, kind of put this…
Stephen Skorski: collection together. I think that's really… I think that's really amazing,
Stephen Skorski: And it probably is a good transition into…
Stephen Skorski: I guess the last question that I have for you…
Stephen Skorski: And let's just… let's just… again, we're gonna do a part two of this at some point. Okay. There's so… there's so much. But we're, like, a little over 2 hours, and
Stephen Skorski: You know, which I… which I… which, you know, I mean, again, it's such a fun window into, like.
Stephen Skorski: You know, I mean, if this was the only episode ever made, I'd be like, yup, success.
katie: Oh, man, that's awesome!
Stephen Skorski: No, totally. I mean, it's so, so, so amazing.
katie: I made a podcast, there's only one person I interview two hours long, once a week.
Stephen Skorski: Yeah, it'll be like that, remember the Wu-Tang Clan made, like, one album, and literally they just made one copy, and they auctioned it off for, like, a million in dollars?
katie: Oh my god, exactly.
Stephen Skorski: Maybe, maybe, maybe that's the marketing route for.
katie: I like it.
Stephen Skorski: But, okay, so I might be burying the headline here, but you did have a rare oil collection, so beyond, kind of, the 50 that you're using for utility, you had this rare oil collection, and so…
Stephen Skorski: I'm gonna let you just kind of talk about the following two things, and, you know, that'll kind of close this chapter of this conversation. But, number one…
Stephen Skorski: tell us about the rare oil collection, right? Kind of…
katie: Yeah.
Stephen Skorski: Why, you know, how it was acquired, maybe give us some highlights, things that were really kind of special to you.
katie: And then…
Stephen Skorski: As you alluded to, you have recently just given it away, and just… so, describe this thing, and then just tell us why you gave it away.
katie: Yeah.
Stephen Skorski: And, yeah, I'm sure I'll have a follow-up question, clearly, but, you know, let's just kind of go down that road for a bit.
katie: Okay.
katie: So, like, this rare oil collection, if any, like, actual perfumers or anybody are listening to this, it's nothing that they would even sneeze at. Like, it was a collection of rare oils, but…
katie: not any kind of museum-worthy thing. But it was like, you know, when I would go out to Berkeley to study with Mandy, she would open up her collection and let us buy some things, and buy some weird things.
katie: So I had some of that, and I was commissioned to design some scents over the years that I needed to get some, like.
katie: just… I was… I love the word weird. I don't mean weird ever to mean bad. So for these… these commissions, I would get some weird, cool stuff that I'd never smelled before.
katie: And…
katie: you know, I wouldn't use the whole bottle, and so I would just keep it, or I would,
katie: just have, like, somehow I would… someone would give something to me, or I'd stumble upon something really beautiful, some really beautiful oil. And so, over the years, I… I got, like.
katie: I don't know, I… not so much. Maybe… maybe another, like, 50 bottles or less of these weird, cool, rare, random oils. Like, for example, I had…
katie: A little bottle of, castorium, which is,
katie: It's, beaver balls. Like, there's… in perfumery, they use a lot of, like, glands and musk and stuff, and…
katie: I had some of that stuff, because I was just curious about it. Like, you know, ambergris comes from, like, whale vomit. There's, like, perfume is weird and cool in that way.
katie: There's another one I'm trying to remember that I had that's, like, a type of, like, cat shit. Africa stone. Africa stone is a type of cat feces. I just had weird stuff like that, and…
katie: A couple… let's see, maybe a year and a half ago, I did a major rehaul of my apothecary. I painted it.
katie: I just kind of, like, reorganized it. I brought, like, a lot of beauty into it. I painted the inside of my oil cabinet, like, India pink.
katie: And I, in the process of that, I,
katie: was just kind of organizing a bunch, and was putting oils here and there, and didn't remember where I put half of them, and really only kept out the utility oils.
katie: And then…
katie: And I… I didn't miss any of these oils that I put away. I wasn't like, I really… where's that rose I have? Where's that choya Nak? Where's that burnt birch tar? You know, never was like…
katie: not even, like, wanting to blend with it, just wanting to smell it, you know? Never thought of them. And so…
katie: like… Couple weeks ago, whenever everyone in the whole world is like.
katie: Not in the whole world, that's not what I mean, but, like, when all the people are getting their Christmas presents ready.
katie: I was, up on my stepstool on a top shelf, looking through this basket.
katie: And I was like, oh, there's all those oils.
katie: Like, had not thought of them in this whole time.
katie: had not wondered where they were, craved them, missed them, or anything. So I was like.
katie: Yeah, there is a part of the Collector's Cycle, this can be episode number 3.
katie: where you release the collection back into the stream, you know? Because I'm… I love treasure hunting, and I rely on people to release their treasures into the stream.
katie: Because I like to find them, and so…
katie: In that spirit, and I mean that, it was conscious. I was like, nope.
katie: I'm keeping these for no reason. There is no reason. There's not a point of pride, it's not an investment, I'm not gonna use them one day, there's nothing. There is literally no reason.
katie: And I have a niece who is in her young 20s, and she's interested in scent.
katie: So I just gave it to her, the whole collection, and I put in a Tupperware, like, a plastic thing, and just gave it to her for Christmas, like any other Christmas present.
katie: And, I just thought, you know, when I was in my young 20s, when I was in massage school and getting into essential oils, if somebody had given me that collection.
katie: I would have loved it, you know? I would have valued it and appreciated it. It would have, like, educated my brain. It would have been…
katie: a… I would have introduced a level of sophistication into my brain
katie: so early, and I thought, well, I would love that for her.
katie: You know, to just be able to, like, smell these things, to know even that they existed. Like, it was educational. She was like, what… what is castorium?
katie: I remember when I brought that back from Berkeley.
katie: When I was in those studios still, we would do these, like, crazy studio crawls, where every studio would have, an hors d'oeuvre and a signature cocktail.
katie: There were, like, a lot.
katie: genius.
Stephen Skorski: cocktail out of beaver balls?
katie: Oh, no, I did not, but I did pass the bottle around, and I made everyone guess what it was, and this one guy was like, it's so familiar, I know what this is! I was like, there's no way you know this is beaver balls.
Stephen Skorski: No one ever saw him again after that night.
katie: And no…
Stephen Skorski: Cannot go back there.
katie: I was like, I don't know if you want to keep smelling it or not, but that's what this is.
katie: So, yeah, I just… I just gave it away. And she was… she was appropriately impressed and interested and enchanted when she opened it. She looked at me and said.
katie: do you know what you just gave me? And I said, yes, I do. And… you know, and so she's off in the world with this…
katie: Crazy collection of some beautiful and some gross
katie: Smelling things, but, you know, she's gonna do something with, and now that's opened up.
katie: space in my life and in my apothecary for something else to come in, and I like the idea of that.
Stephen Skorski: Aw.
katie: That's awesome. I mean, it's…
Stephen Skorski: You know, it's, it's, first of all, fantastic, for her.
katie: Yeah.
Stephen Skorski: You know, if… again, in Part 4, we'll talk more about, you know, kind of the emotional…
Stephen Skorski: I don't know, whatever, right? I mean, how that kind of sits with you when you make the decision, when you give it to somebody, how it feels 6 months later. I mean, we literally could probably talk for an hour on…
Stephen Skorski: But again, you know, fantastic for her, and it is a reminder that…
Stephen Skorski: you know, another thing that collections can do, potentially, is what you're talking about. It's like, it's, you know, it connects people in a way
Stephen Skorski: sometimes, right, when you do something like that, right, if you're, you know, if I talk to somebody and they are just getting into record collecting, and, you know, you give them something that may not be rare at all, you know, like, the things you're talking about were kind of rare and hard to find, and, you know, but, I mean.
Stephen Skorski: you know, if somebody has 10 records, and you give them, you know, Fleetwood Mac rumors on.
katie: Finema.
Stephen Skorski: and they don't have it, like, you have done something, right? You have made a connection with another person.
Stephen Skorski: In a way that is pretty hard to replicate, because there is, like, a generosity to it, there's a thoughtfulness, then there's the music itself, like, there's so much that kind of goes on that's, like, that is unspoken in that…
Stephen Skorski: that exchange, which I think, again, it's fantastic. I don't, you know, it's hard to…
Stephen Skorski: replicate something like that. Gets another… I don't know, just one of the wonderful things that may happen.
Stephen Skorski: when you collect.
katie: Yeah. Well, because back to the records, like, with you, you know, you probably come across duplicates pretty often, and if you know that the record is worth it.
katie: and rare, but you already have one, you go ahead and snatch it up, because you'll get the opportunity maybe one day to be generous like that, and you'll know it'll, like, make somebody's day to get that record.
Stephen Skorski: Yeah, there are certain albums that, under a certain price, I will just always buy, for that exact reason. You know, if I can find a, you know, a clean copy of, you know, whatever, a Cars album, or, you know.
katie: I'll find it.
Stephen Skorski: thing that you know that, like you said, someone in their teens or late, you know, early 20s is probably not gonna maybe even know as.
katie: Yes.
Stephen Skorski: and you're able to be like, hey, you know what? Check this, check this out. Like, yeah, I will, yeah, I actually have, like, kind of a little stash of those.
katie: Oh, yeah. Because as a collector, like, one of the things that you can really do is vet. You're like, I know that this is a cool thing at a good price, and highly desirable.
katie: Whereas someone that's just starting out, like, may not even notice
katie: Any of that, but your eye is like, oh, nope, don't sleep on that.
katie: So it's, yeah, you can be kind of the, Obi-Wan.
katie: Collecting, you know, be the Yoda.
Stephen Skorski: Yeah, yeah, and maybe… God, I don't know that I want to be Yoda. There's too much… there's too much.
katie: Not Yoda.
Stephen Skorski: It's too much… too much pressure, you know?
Stephen Skorski: Okay, well, let's, let's do this.
katie: Okay.
Stephen Skorski: Let the people out there know, if they did want to kind of learn more about you and what you do, how do they get in contact with you?
katie: Yes, so I can be found at River Island Apothecary everywhere, so that's on Facebook or Instagram, River Island Apothecary.
katie: And then the website is RiverIslandapothecary.com.
Stephen Skorski: Okay, that's awesome. And what might some of those things… you know, you, you've kind of just mentioned them, but what are some of the things that you do, you know, besides just learning about you, like, what, what, you know, what resources, you know, or courses, or classes, or, you know, things like that do you offer?
katie: Yeah, so if you wanted to buy these oil blends, these anointing oils.
katie: You could find those on the website. And I also teach classes about those archetypes and those anointing oils, and I also teach aromatherapy, and there's information about all that.
katie: On the website. There's also a couple of free classes on there about archetypes and anointing, so you can go and get a free class right away. And then I also am sort of a writer, and so I do a weekly newsletter called the Archatelegragram.
katie: That has essays and poems, but also, like, class announcements and stuff. And then I've written,
katie: a bunch of workbooks. One is called the Materia Mystica, and that is an extensive workbook about the archetypes that I work with, and how they overlay with the Wheel of the Year, and with altar craft, and then I have a workbook called The Elements of Work.
katie: Which takes the, archetypes, the seasons.
katie: And, some ritual craft aspects, and adds the elements, like earth, air, fire, water type elements to it, and applies it to the creative process, or your work in the world. And then I have a bunch of other little workbooks here and there, and I'm… and I also have… last thing…
katie: is I make an almanac.
katie: every year, that's called the Darkwood Almanac.
Stephen Skorski: And I take, the holy days of the Wheel of the Year.
katie: And the moon phases, as they relate to these archetypes.
katie: And I look for patterns in those, and create kind of a… I have a collaborator that I work with, and we made this almanac as a journal for observation for inner and outer nature. So that almanac is out
katie: Actually, we're just putting… putting the finishing touches on it now, so it should be out pretty soon, and I'll have that advertised soon. And it's just a PDF at this point, because I don't have the funds to, like, print it for anyone, but it's a good PDF.
katie: It's the best type of PDF. You can print it yourself.
Stephen Skorski: Great.
katie: That's what we all do.
Stephen Skorski: Okay, that's awesome. And I would encourage anybody who, yeah, I mean, anyone who wants to know more about
Stephen Skorski: some of the things we talked about, all the things we talked about, or just to get to, you know, get to know Katie a little more, yeah, reach out. You will most certainly be,
Stephen Skorski: enriched, I think.
Stephen Skorski: If you do that. So we're gonna leave it on one last question. You are sitting in front of your organ.
Stephen Skorski: You're staring at your oils.
Stephen Skorski: But they're staring back at you.
katie: What are they saying about you?
katie: They're saying something about complexity.
katie: They're saying…
katie: They're saying something about relatability and complexity, but I can't totally get it yet. I'll have to listen closer.
Stephen Skorski: That's fair. You're a complex individual.
Stephen Skorski: No doubt, and as we've heard over the last almost two and a half hours, so…
Stephen Skorski: Thanks, Katie. This was awesome.
katie: Aww.
Stephen Skorski: it was really, really, truly, truly fantastic to, as it always is, but in this case, to be very kind of focused on one topic for a little while, and, you know, you never know, right? I mean, but one of the beauties of teaching,
Stephen Skorski: As you well know, is that it might be one person, it might be 10 people.
katie: Who knows, it could be more, but…
Stephen Skorski: When people hear something, And you're able to kinda… help us spark…
Stephen Skorski: get generated, and then it turns into something amazing? That's incredible, you know? And I… I think there were tons of things that you talked about that… there's a lot of people who I think that spark is kind of going off, so…
katie: Aww.
Stephen Skorski: Thank you for your, your time.
katie: Oh, well, thank you for saying that, and this is so fun, and I want to interview right… I want to interview you right back.
Stephen Skorski: Okay.
katie: Okay.
Stephen Skorski: I'll do that, just, let me go get a snack.
katie: Let me get a snack again.
Stephen Skorski: Get back on the phone in, like, 10 minutes.
katie: I love it! Yeah, I mean, you are… you ask really good questions, and it's so fun. I don't know, it's… it just was a real treat to have this… because you and I have so many conversations, and it was a real treat to have this kind of conversation.
katie: And so thank you! Thank you for letting me talk about this… my collection!
katie: Darn it, I guess I have a collection.
Stephen Skorski: If I've accomplished nothing today, it is…
katie: Yeah, you win.
Stephen Skorski: into you that you… yeah, that I won. That was the point of all of this, right?
katie: Yeah, I know, I already knew that.
Stephen Skorski: I play a long game, I really do.
katie: You win. One point for you. I'm a collector. I collect essential… hi, I'm Katie, and I collect essential oils.
Stephen Skorski: That is going to be the intro of this episode.
Stephen Skorski: I love that.
Stephen Skorski: Alright, Katie, well, I know you have to go, so, let's call it a conversation, and let's talk soon.
katie: And we will talk soon, yes, thanks again, and yeah, we will talk soon.
Stephen Skorski: Yeah, totally. Alright, we'll see ya.
katie: Okay, bye!