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I Love Your Stories is a soulful conversation series hosted by artist and creative guide Hava Gurevich, where art meets authenticity. Each episode invites you into an intimate dialogue with artists, makers, and visionaries who are courageously crafting lives rooted in creativity, purpose, and self-expression.
From painters and poets to healers and community builders, these are the stories behind the work—the moments of doubt, discovery, grief, joy, and transformation. Through honest, heart-centred conversations, Hava explores how creativity can be both a healing force and a path to personal truth.
If you’re an artist, a dreamer, or someone drawn to a more intuitive and intentional way of living, this podcast will remind you that your story matters—and that the act of creating is a sacred, revolutionary act.
[MUSIC]
What happens when two artists who are
also both podcasters
decide to film a special
crossover episode together?
Welcome to this episode
of I Love Your Stories.
I'm your host, Hava Gurvitch,
and today I'm trying
something a little different.
I'm joined today by a very special guest,
photographer, former nurse
practitioner turned podcaster,
Carmen DeVayless, who
has her own YouTube channel
called The Art of a Meaningful Life.
Join us for an insightful
conversation about creativity,
courage, and finding
your voice at any age.
We explore vulnerability in sharing art,
the challenge of balancing
creative work with entrepreneurship,
and the belief that connection completes
the creative expression.
Carmen also shares an
incredible full circle story
from her decades in healthcare,
one that will make you believe in
serendipity and the arc,
the long arc of gratitude.
If you're craving
inspiration, permission to speak,
and the reminder that
it's never too late to start,
this conversation is for you.
For a little extra context,
this was filmed on
Halloween, so let's get into it.
Now, quick word from our sponsor,
and then we'll get
right back to the show.
When I started selling my art,
I had absolutely no idea how to actually
turn it into a business,
a professional business.
Then I came across Art Storefronts,
and that was a game changer.
I've been a customer now for years,
and they've been instrumental every step
of the way of helping me succeed.
I have a gorgeous,
powerful commerce website,
I have marketing tools,
and a membership to a
community that is very supportive,
and teaches me how to
succeed as an artist.
Check them out, artstorefronts.com,
and tell them how I sent you.
Hello, and welcome back
to I Love Your Stories.
I have a very, very special guest with me
today, Carmen de Vailis.
Carmen has her own podcast,
it's on her YouTube channel,
and it's called The
Art of a Meaningful Life.
Right? Yes.
Yes.
And since we both have podcasts,
we thought it would be really fun to do a
little crossover episode,
where we'll see what happens.
We have something special planned for
today, don't we, Eva?
Yes, we do.
Because today, if you haven't noticed,
for those of you
watching, it is Halloween.
Because you don't normally have quite
that hairstyle, do you have a...
This is my alter ego.
My ego.
Yeah.
I'm just going to take this off, because
it's getting a little itchy.
Okay. Yeah, I'm fine.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Can we start by...
Maybe you can tell us a
little bit about your background,
when you got into art,
and what inspires you,
and maybe a little bit about your
channel, your YouTube channel as well.
Sure. Sure.
So yeah, I am a
photographer, and I love flowers.
So you see a lot of flowers, nature.
Nature to me is the
most healing, wonderful.
I mean, that's put me in
nature as my happy place.
And I am a late bloomer with art.
I just started like eight years ago.
I transitioned from being in healthcare
as a nurse practitioner, like 40 years.
And during that time, I'm
like, "I'm all about the stories."
I listened to people sometimes during
some of the worst times of their lives.
Right?
I mean, to be real, it's
some of the worst times ever.
And I thought, how much I admired what
they had gone through,
and how they handled it.
And I was there as a witness, and
thinking, if the world
could hear these stories,
it would be such a less petty
and bitter place in general.
Right?
We wouldn't be bickering about some of
the things people bicker about,
and short-tempered, and things like that.
And as I transitioned, I started a
nonprofit first thing,
and it was all about telling the stories
for families living through dementia.
And I photographed them with their family
pets, and wrote a book,
because I am an overachiever.
And then discovered on with photography,
which had been my
love since days of film.
And I believe this podcast is a
continuation of those stories,
because I'm so curious to hear how other
people find a way to
live a meaningful life,
in spite of whatever is going on.
I love that.
Yeah.
I love that.
Thank you.
So is that your art behind you?
I know you said you're a photographer.
They kind of look like paintings.
That's the biggest
compliment you can pay,
because my style is very painterly.
And I use lenses to give me that look,
which I think is how I see the world.
My dad used to say, I saw the world
through rose-colored glasses.
Everything's just soft and beautiful, and
that's kind of the way it is for me.
And we need more people like D'Atnapo.
Maybe so.
Maybe so.
So, Hava, listen, I am so
curious to hear your story,
because I have been admiring your work.
Thank you.
Hava on Instagram.
No kidding.
So I've been painting for the past 26
years, maybe a little longer.
I started out pursuing art.
I was an undergrad.
I started in pre-med.
Biology and psychology were probably the
two subjects I was
willing to study in college.
And my parents sort of really wanted,
they're like, you're going to college,
and you're going to study something real
so you can get a real job.
I know that story.
Yeah.
But I took a drawing class when I was in
college, and it was the first time that--
I mean, I've always been
sort of artistic and creative,
and I wanted to be a
fashion designer when I was young.
And my mom said, like, absolutely not.
So, yeah, right?
That's why I love Halloween so much,
because it's the one
time a year I get to,
you know, like, just really let my inner
fashion designer out.
But I took a drawing class, and it was
the first time in my life that I learned.
Like, I learned that
you can learn to make art.
Like, I learned that you can get better,
that you can learn technique and improve.
And for the first time, I sort of started
to understand that art
isn't just a pretty picture
on a wall, that art is a form of
expression and about
the whole history of art.
And it just was-- it opened
up a whole new world for me.
And I switched to the art school.
I still love biology.
I still love psychology, like, living
sciences, nature, animals, all of that.
And what's really wonderful about being
an artist is that I
get to make art about all
the things that I love and all the things
that I'm passionate about.
And I can study it.
I can go as deep as I want to
go and then make art about it.
But I don't have to--
I'm not a scientist.
I'm not a biologist.
I don't have to follow
somebody else's guidelines.
I have creative freedom to take it in any
direction I want to--
I can pick and choose from all the things
that I love, including fashion design.
We have so many things in
common that I didn't even know.
I should have taken notes here because
that's how my memory is.
So about three years into being a nurse--
now, I had started out as a music major.
I'll say that.
So I was creative in my own way and went
to nursing school because
I needed to support myself.
And I liked it.
I liked it.
But first chance I had, I took a program
for a clothing design, a
degree in clothing design.
As a woman, as a girl back then, we had
only so many choices like home ec or art.
And I did enjoy creating my own garments
and drawing and painting on fabric and doing things
in home ec. But I wasn't one of the cool kids.
I always thought I'm not one of the cool
kids in the art program.
And I really yearned to be over there.
And so for this degree, I needed to take
drawing and color theory, which I
realized I'm colorblind
with the blues and the greens.
I have trouble with tones.
Big time.
But drawing.
So here I'm in this class with all the women. But drawing.
So here I'm in this class
with all the formerly cool kids.
And I'm a little older.
And I wasn't.
Now I look back and I'm
like, I really wasn't.
Only about four years.
But it felt like a lot.
It felt like a lot.
It felt like a lot.
And they were just picking up their
pencils and drawing.
And I'm like, it's sick people level.
I don't know anything about drawing.
And the teachers that I had, though, they
would give assignments and
they would guide me through.
And I think I studied and worked more for
that class than I ever
did in my nursing classes.
And that says a lot because
it's a tough program, right?
I was always drawing because it's
something I wanted to do.
Every week we put our
finished drawing up on the board.
And we were critiqued.
And it was like, I'm sweating.
I'm sweating.
But that's when I saw
artists so subjective.
And so it is so subjective.
And those of you, I mean, I'm sure you
have done art shows
and competitions and...
Yeah, a little bit.
Yeah, you just never know
because there's a judge.
And I've been actually in the position of
being on the other end of it.
Like I did professional portfolio reviews
for photo festivals, like
the Houston Photo Festival,
and a couple of times in Manhattan.
One of the things that I decided is that
I don't want to put myself through that.
Because I know how sensitive I am and how
personally I take rejection.
And so the couple of times that I
participated in an art fair,
just sitting there with all my art and
people walk by and some just like,
my art is just too much for them.
So they just like walk by.
And then some will stop and they don't
know what to say really.
Because they're like, wow, so much color.
And then they'll move on.
I'm like, okay.
But it would affect me to
have that kind of response.
I want to tap on that.
One of the things about art photography
for me that I hadn't
stopped to think about
until I was doing it.
And I started out doing headshots and
social media, pictures for entrepreneurs,
and things like that.
And then as I started doing more
landscape flowers, in
doing more local shows,
and the level of
vulnerability that it takes.
Yeah.
Huge.
Two, number one, hang your
art and say, this isn't my art.
Or if I was photographing people to, I
had a wall that I used to reveal,
the reveal wall, right?
And they could come in and I had prints
of them and their responses.
It's unpredictable because
it's a lot about feeling,
our memories, our experiences, and how we
feel about something.
And it's so unique.
And yet from the artist's point of view,
it's like, do you like my babies?
Yeah, exactly.
Don't you love my baby?
And like, why is her baby prettier to you
than my, and it is not that at all.
It's just a matter of a
calling and the event are moved.
And I'm sure you've had this too.
I've had people walk by and stop and cry
because it touched them in such a way.
And I'm like, yeah, you're my client.
Although I don't want you to cry every
day, but you're moved by it.
As I get older, I find that
this part of evolution for me.
So the whole part of putting yourself out
there and I think art
taught me that big lesson bigger
than anything else and creating art.
And the whole part about being creative
is that vulnerable act and
learning that that's part of
human growth.
But that's the hardest thing too.
I'm saying, I can both easy have a plan,
do, and then review.
And in that review, you decide whether
that's for you or not.
And not only do I look at
the numbers, do I make money?
And it's my gut feeling
like, did I really enjoy that?
Back to the meaningful life, right?
Did that bring joy to my life?
Was it meaningful to me?
I belong to a few art groups and we show
our art and it's small.
But I really enjoy the people I'm with
and it brings me joy to
see what people are doing
and how we're all growing.
And I'm out there with other artists,
which is a dream world
for me after so many.
I mean, to me, that's
part of living the dream.
There's a question that
I love to ask my guests.
That is, what are you most
passionate about right now?
Right now.
Oh, great question, Nava.
I'll tell you, because this is the time
of year I'm planning next year.
So December will actually
be the start of 2026 for me.
Found that I spent many, many decades
silencing myself, being
small, or some people say putting
out my own light or what have you.
I was pretty happy to kind of stay in the
background and be quiet.
And yet I had a lot of things to say and
opinions and for various
reasons, I just did not.
And each year I find it is more important
for me to have a voice.
I'm most passionate, I think, about, to
answer your question, is using my voice,
whether it be my voice through art or my
voice through speaking
or podcasts or other ways,
to express the things
that are important to me.
I love that.
I love that.
If you would have said 20 years ago or 10
years ago, I would be
doing anything like this.
It'd be like, again, sweating bullets and
maybe shaking a little bit and going,
"No, no, no, I don't think so."
And then there just came a
time and like, enough is enough.
Just like you, the courage to put
yourself out, the courage
to put myself out there,
was big, big.
I even spoke on a national stage this
summer in a speaking
competition, which is just so far.
And I signed up for it like this time
last year to challenge myself.
I'm a really strong
believer in following your passion.
That's been part of my passion.
Is it?
I was going to ask you,
what is your big passion?
Art is part of it, but
more as a tool, as a vehicle.
For the past year, I've been spending a
lot of time thinking about
how everything is connected,
what I believe reality to be is what is
reflected back to me.
And so if I want to make a change in my
life with positive, I don't
wait for the change to happen.
I have to live as if the change already
happened and then reality
catches up because it's so
subjective.
And so I've been really passionate about
trying to live that every day.
Some days I'm successful, other days not
so much, but I try to start each day with
a little meditation.
It's a little bit of like, what is it
that I want to manifest
today in a sense of like,
what's my best life and
how can I live through today?
What actions can I take?
Or not just actions, it's also what
thinking and feeling.
Emotions.
How can I put myself in an emotional
state that will be a
representative of the life
that I want to live?
I end each day with a little bit of a
mental checklist of all the
things that I accomplished.
Because sometimes,
especially, it just feels overwhelming.
A lot of times I end my
days with doom scrolling.
So then I'm like, "Ah, shit.
It's after midnight.
I should go to bed."
My first thought, I was like, "Man, I
can't believe I wasted all this time."
And then I just try to stop myself and be
like, "No, I did this and I finished that
and I got all of this done."
It's like, "Wow, I've had
a really productive day."
And so I just try to end the day on a
note of, I'm living the
life that I want to live.
And the other thing is, quite
recently, a full-time artist.
I left my day job last year.
And so it's been more than a year now.
And it's taken a very long time to
recalibrate that work-life balance.
For so long, my art was my escape.
It was my passion.
It was the thing that I
would try to find time to do.
That wasn't always successful and sure,
there were stresses about it.
But still, I intentionally
wasn't trying to sell art.
I wasn't looking at it as my vocation.
So it was something like,
"If I got to do it, I'm happy.
If I didn't get to do it,
I'll get to do it later."
And then suddenly, I'm a business owner.
And so I'm still working.
But now, I have to
spend time on Instagram,
looking at content, engaging with other
creators, creating
content, answering questions,
putting together...
It's a job.
It's a job.
And sometimes, when
you're a business owner,
everything you do, every time you go out
and sit in a coffee shop and
look out the window and like,
"Oh, that's a good idea.
Oh, maybe I should try that."
You're working.
That's work.
Yeah.
And so, being in my studio and painting
is not the only thing
that counts as work.
Everything counts as work.
And so, when everything counts as work,
it becomes like, "Well, when do I relax?"
I don't have an answer.
I want to say, "Who
does VFREA recognize that?"
And I've found myself
in the very same place.
And I thought, "Here,
I'm all about creativity."
And my master's thesis was spirituality
and health, which
included creativity and a lot
of the things you're talking about.
How do you spend your day?
How do you take breaks from things?
And to fill your cup, to nurture your
spirit and things we often take for
granted and don't do.
It's like last on the list.
And so, as an entrepreneur, we're kind of
on this hamster wheel
all the time because,
as a solopreneur
especially, it is just you, right?
And we're great bosses sometimes.
Sometimes, my boss overworks me a lot.
Oh, yeah.
Yeah. I overwork and I are to be
successful and to find a way.
And we're actually paving ground that
hasn't really been driven
before in the way that we are now
and the resources that we
have and how to use those.
And so, I recognize this in myself and I
had to really stop and go,
"Here I am supposedly this
expert on taking care of myself and
spirituality and creativity and I'm not
even taking time out
to make sure I'm breathing deep three or
four breaths a day."
To do the, like you're
talking about, the journaling.
And I started talking to other
entrepreneurs and I found that we were
all in the same boat
and that constant run and struggle.
And first of all, I was curious if people
thought, not if they
thought they were creative,
that's an interesting thing because a lot
of people do not and
yet every entrepreneur is
creative, right?
And then, so I created this quiz about
creativity and it's really
what kind of creative you are.
So, there's like four different kinds
based to make it simple.
And some of us have a lot of ideas really
fast and other of us are
more curious and kind of...
How can someone find that quiz?
I'll put the link in.
I'll put the link in.
It is live now.
And I did a test group.
Yeah, I did a test group and I invited
entrepreneurs in and people
I knew and they said, "I just
need your input and I
need you to be honest."
And we all took it and the comments of
people, similar to what
you're saying, Hava, although
many of us don't even do like a minimal
of what we need to, to peak our
creativity, to be the best
at being an entrepreneur, which is what
you're talking about.
We're not even talking about being the
best artist possible.
We're like the best entrepreneur, you
have to take the efforts
to peak your creativity.
And so, yeah, I'm starting a small group
of entrepreneurs all around.
It's really great.
All around taking care of
those parts of our needs.
One of the things that I really love to
do is kind of like a mental exercise.
Sometimes it's a situation of you do
something and then
afterwards you're like,
"Well, that was a waste of my time."
Other times something happens, whether
you feel like you had
control over it or not,
but it didn't go the way you wanted and
those kinds of disappointments.
And they happen throughout your life.
Right.
But what's really, really fun
is to see where you are now.
And as you look at your successes, as you
look at your passions,
as you look at the paths that you are
choosing to take and then
connect the thoughts back to
something that maybe happened like 30, 40
years ago, or maybe just like yesterday,
that you're like, "Wow, if I didn't go
through that, positive or negative,
I wouldn't be where I am now."
So it's...
And I try to do that as much as I can
because it really helps
when something goes south
in the present.
So I'm like, "Oh, shit."
But then right after that, sort of
consciously think about like,
"I wonder what thing in the future, what
positive win in the future
or direction in the future
that I'm going to take and I'm going to
look back and say like,
"Oh, I wouldn't even be here if it wasn't
for this shitty
situation that I'm in right now."
You got it all right.
Last summer, I started from... My son is
38 and I thought there's so much about...
And he had a head injury, so a lot of
earlier life he doesn't remember.
And I thought, "I'm going to put these
photos together and then do a voiceover
and explain to him... To talk to him
about what was happening
because I want him and my
grandkids to have that."
And I'm the historian in
the family right now for him.
And as I started going through it, I
realized, I'm like, "Oh, man. Yeah,
exactly what you're saying, Hava."
And like, "If that hadn't have happened
and now and how it relates..."
Yeah.
So, okay.
So this is actually...
It's one of the sort of thread themes
through my podcasts is these kinds of
like pivotal moments or
transformations that began possibly as
some kind of something negative and
but ultimately brought
you to where you are now.
Wow. Can you share an example?
Yeah. I have one that comes to mind.
So when I was working on this photo
project for my son, I came
across photos from when I was a
neonatal nurse in... So 40 years ago.
And there was a family that were my very
first primary care and a
preemie baby, like two pounds.
And so back in early 80s, we didn't have
all that we have now.
And I was going through a very difficult
time with my own losses
and I'm trying to save
other babies. And they were
my very first primary patient.
But the thing about the story is that
this family, they had
their trials and tribulations,
and the mom was like 19 and dad, I think
maybe 22, 23. So just a
tad bit younger than me.
They really just showed me
what love could look like.
And we had lost contact once the baby did
fine, at least at that
point. And I had lost contact and
went on with life. And all the time
though, 40 years, I was
thinking, "I never thanked them.
I don't think I ever thanked them. I
don't think they ever
knew what they meant to me."
And my thought was they probably won't
even remember me. Life
goes on, it's 40 years.
I had in the past looked for them with
that one big regret. I'd never really
thanked them or told
them. And at last year, I just happened
to find that 40 year old
baby started his own business.
And he was on LinkedIn and I'm not
positive it was him. They
have a very common name.
And I went back and I'm curious, right? I
follow the trail and from
LinkedIn, I found a page on
Facebook I thought might be his. And
somebody had written a post on December
2nd, "Happy Birthday,
bro." And I'm like, "That's his birthday.
That has to be him." And
then I went, I found their
business website and I'm looking for a
phone number. And I think
one of the... It's a real
estate. I think one of the realtors
looked like his dad and had the same
name. And I thought,
"Okay, I'm going to call." And I'm like,
"I am. Palms are sweaty." I'm
like, "What am I going to say?
You might remember me from 40 years ago."
But I just had to say,
"Thank you." And I got voicemail.
So I'm not kidding. I needed my magic
wand because it was the
wackiest voice message I've ever
left because I didn't exactly know what
to say and I wasn't planning
it. But I did my best and I
thought I hung up and I thought, "Well, I
have to let that go. I doubt
they're going to call." And
I'm not even sure it's them. And about 10
minutes later, my phone rang
and it was, not only did they
remember me, but it's like every
Christmas we say a prayer for you
wherever you are, you meant so
much to us. And I'm like, "I had no
idea." You just have no idea
how you're going to touch my
hearts. That's when that came back to me
to say, "I never thought
they would remember me."
But not only they remember me, I was a
part of their story. And
we ended up having a lot of
crying with the mom and we were friends
and we're in contact. And this was the
story I got on stage
with last August for that competition.
And they came, they flew
in from Las Vegas to Dallas
for the day to hear our story, hear me
tell our story. So talking
about full circle, right? And
I'm tracking along pretty good. I got
three minutes to get this
and the time is clicking
and I'm like doing my best and it's a
competition. So you know how that is. And
I look out there and
for the first time in 40 years, I see
them in the audience and the mom is
crying and pointing at him
telling the people around them that he's
the baby that I'm talking
about. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. And
so at that point, my heart, it was like
my heart shark, it just
exploded, right? And my brain
straight lined. And it felt like a
minute, but I'm told it was just a few
seconds. I haven't been
able to watch it. I have the video of it
now. Talking about full
circle. So the lesson, you know,
that you just never know who you're going
to touch or how. Yeah. And
years can turn into what feel
like minutes when someone touches your
heart. Yeah. And it's
never too late to say thank you
or what you mean to somebody. My brain
straight line because I
knew I was in the moment,
that pivotal moment of this is the
miracle in my life right now.
That's like a moment I'm never
going to forget. Yeah. That's, that's
incredible. Wow. So that was a long
answer to a short question.
No, it's a, it was a perfect answer. And
you know, I was going to
give an example as well,
but I cannot follow. There's no way I'm
going to follow something
trivial after that. Instead,
I'm going to ask another question that I
like to ask all my guests.
What is your definition of
success right now and how has it changed
over time? Oh yeah. So I'm, I'm a
recovering overachiever.
So success, you know, usually came in
the, in wrapped up in the box
of what I'm able to achieve.
Success to me now would be the things I'm
striving for. What we just
talked for, the finding meaning
in life and living a good life and what
I, how the impact that I
carry and, and taking the time to
feel, to receive, right? Because if
you're an overachiever and you're
putting, putting stuff
out there, putting stuff out there. And
in fact, even when we think
it's around that hamster wheel,
right? We're not allowing ourselves to be
quiet enough to receive.
Can I ask you that one?
I've been trying to, I mean, I like to
say that when I was younger,
there was a lot of separation
between the different parts of my life,
you know, so there were, I
was, you know, there was a part
of my life where I'm the artist, another
one where, you know, I,
whatever, you know, career I had,
and then as a partner to someone and as a
daughter to someone, and, you
know, as a friend to someone,
there was, I was all these different
things and they, you know,
they had some overlap, but they
were like different people. And one of
the things that, that I've been
discovering through my own
art and through my own sort of like
spiritual journey is that
everything is connected. It's
all the same thing. And, you know, I can
say that about, about art. Like one of
the themes in my art
is this idea of like repeating patterns,
fractal patterns, and that
the same kind of patterns.
And, you know, through, through my art,
I, I show these patterns
visually, but they're not always
visual patterns. These patterns are
patterns that occur on all kinds of
planes. So you can talk
about a pattern, a similar pattern of
like evolution or regeneration or, you
know, metamorphosis,
like these are patterns. And you can, and
you can see those patterns in
the life of a butterfly. For
example, you can see those patterns in
weather systems. You can see those
patterns in communities.
You can see those patterns in like some,
like a person's
development, a person's life.
You know, you can see that pattern in, in
our constellation. Like
it's the pattern is a pattern
and there's in it and everything works in
the same way. There's
connections in everything. And so,
especially if I'm making art and I'm, I
don't have, I don't have an
idea ahead of time of what it is
that I'm going to paint. I just, I just
react to what I'm doing, you
know, and, but at some point,
whether it's just a simple flower or a
more complex and
psychedelic or abstract pattern,
whatever it is, at some point, my brain
kind of like clicks onto
that pattern and I'm seeing
all these connections. And when I see
those connections, I
mean, that's just like this
magical transformative moments and they,
they're like micro
moments, right? They can't,
they don't last long in like, but they,
but just like you were
saying, like they do for me, they're
like time stops. And I'm in this space
where everything comes
together. And a lot of times,
like I might have been having like some
issue with family member or
like to some stress or anxiety
over some business interaction or, you
know, world events, whatever it is,
suddenly I'm able to put
that into some kind of perspective
through the art that I'm
making. And in having that kind of
realization that everything that happens
and kind of comes through
me is interconnected. And
I'm so grateful that I have, I have that
creative outlet to be able to process
all that is happening and to be able to
then look at it and gain
knowledge or gain some,
you know, some kind of understanding
through that, you know,
I'll share, sometimes it's in
progress or it's finished and people, not
always, some will just say,
Oh, I love the colors, you
know, and that's fine too, because I love
color. But every once
in a while, somebody will
make a comment that like tells me that
they really got that they
really got what I was doing that,
that level of communication. It's like,
it's like one soul communicating with
another soul through,
in my case, a visual language. You know,
for other people, it might be through
music or something else.
But when that happens, when that kind of
connection happens, for me,
that feels like the ultimate
success on a less lofty plane. Success is
just, you know, being able
to have the freedom, the time,
the space, the resources to make art
makes me feel successful.
Selling is always nice too,
but that's the cherry on top. Yeah, well,
we do need to have a roof over our heads.
So what I'm hearing is like we create art
for ourselves, for what
it gives us. We create art
for others who can feel something
themselves. And then for even bigger
beyond that is we create art
to connect ourselves with others and then
beyond that, you know,
with the world at large.
And I want to add something to that
because like I have so
like my partner, my boyfriend,
he, his biggest passion is music. And the
way when, you know, we'll
be listening to something
together. He always has to have music on
and it brings out
emotion in him. And the way he
discusses listening to music is just on
another level. And then I
have this other friend who is,
she loves looking at art. She loves going
to see concerts. She needs to be
surrounded with art.
And so the three of us were having a
conversation about creativity and
specifically about how do
you express your creativity? Because
we're all creative.
Creativity is part of human nature.
Yes. And expressing that creativity is
like a human need. I mean,
it's right up there next to
food shelter because in a way they were
sort of saying like, oh,
they haven't yet found their
creative expression. And I said, you
know, for one thing, when you speak
like, you know that if a tree falls in
the forest and nobody hears it, it
doesn't make a sound or
something like that. Like it's true. Like
on a quantum level,
particle needs to be observed,
become a particle. So if I am expressing
something into the
vacuum and no one hears it,
no one sees it, no one, it doesn't
resonate with anyone. I
mean, yes, it's still,
there is something there, but the full
connection, the full feeling of
accomplishment or the full
feeling of like success is that there is
somebody that receives it and it
resonates with them. And
that completes that completes that
expression. And like, I love
making art, but I don't go out
of my way to go to museums and galleries
just to look at art unless
I'm looking to be inspired
for my own art. And I realized that like,
for some people, being a
consumer of art is their way of
expressing creativity. Oh yeah. I think
it's part of, like for people
who love to have art around,
but it's not theirs, they're surrounding
themselves with that,
which inspires them.
Just like we might walk out in nature
versus going to a museum.
Yeah. Yeah. So I think it's,
I think that is like a big realization
because it also means if
you have a story to tell,
there is somebody out there that needs to
hear that story. And it
sometimes can take 40 years
for that story to be, to complete its
cycle, to be right.
Right. And to, to, to really
get a sense of how meaningful it was, you
know, and you need to
know how it was received.
That's what completes the cycle. So yeah.
Yeah. Maybe that's what
I was feeling that day,
right? On stage when my, it was like a
monumental moment and I knew
it. Yeah. Like I'm standing,
to be aware of it and something. I know
this got a little deep
today and I gotta tell you,
you know, I really loved it. I love the
two. I love talking
about that. That does.
I'm really glad you reached out to do
this. Thank you. Oh, me too. Such a
pleasure. Yeah. Such a
pleasure. Likewise. I'm going to thank
all of our guests for listening and we
will see you soon. And
I would love to hear some comments.
Thanks again for tuning in.
That's our episode. I hope you
enjoyed it. And if you did, please help
us out by leaving a
review, a comment, subscribing,
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