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The Space Between is the podcast where strength and vulnerability meet for families navigating life with cancer.
Hosted by Amri Kibbler, a cancer survivor and parent, each episode offers honest stories, expert insights, and heartfelt support for those balancing treatment, caregiving, and parenting - often all at once.
If you're walking this path, you’re not alone. This is your space to feel seen, find connection, and heal.
[00:00:00] Steven Binder: I'm just gonna go back to the kids. Can't lose their mother. Whatever I would do for them, I would do for her. Kids are our greatest source of strength, also our greatest vulnerability. There was no other option. This is what needed to happen. That's it. It's just the kids can't lose their mother.
[00:00:17] Amri Kibbler: Hi, I'm Amri Kibbler and this is The Space Between. I'm a cancer survivor and a mom, and while those roles.
[00:00:24] Amri Kibbler: Don't define me. They have shaped who I am. I created this space to share honest stories, expert insights, and meaningful support for families navigating life with cancer. If you're balancing treatment, caregiving, parenting, or just trying to hold it all together, you are not alone. This is your space to connect, to heal, and to feel seen, and I'm so glad that you're here.
[00:00:48] Amri Kibbler: Get ready. Today's episode is a powerful one. And a reminder that family doesn't always look like we expect it to. I'm so excited to welcome back my dear friend, Gina Lamanna, the founder of The Fondle Project breast cancer survivor, alongside her ex-husband Steve Binder. They were going through a divorce when Gina received her diagnosis, and together they share what it really looks like to co-parent through one of the hardest chapters of life navigating a cancer diagnosis, treatment, and healing.
[00:01:18] Amri Kibbler: All the while raising their children and redefining their relationship as co-parents, let's get into it.
[00:01:25] Gina Lamanna: I do trust him with my life wholeheartedly on so many levels that I know that I could trust him to, you know, walk along with me on this journey. For sure. Regardless of what we were going through, we were newly separated, I think.
[00:01:38] Gina Lamanna: What about a year? I was officially diagnosed on New Year's Eve. But you weren't even officially divorced, right? We were not officially divorced and I was actually in a new relationship at the time. I was in a long distance relationship by Coastal Allied New York, and I was actually with my then boyfriend in Vermont celebrating New Year's.
[00:01:57] Gina Lamanna: I just left Steven and the girls 'cause they were in Chicago, so we were not divorced. And that's a whole nother thing. But um. Yeah, we didn't rush to get divorced. 'cause after I was diagnosed I was on his health insurance, which he had an incredible policy with the Writers Guild. So we kind of kept me on there until, what, about four years.
[00:02:20] Gina Lamanna: Right.
[00:02:21] Steven Binder: Until we sort of had to just other circumstances. Right. Uh, dictated, just made more sense to do it. But otherwise we were just gonna, you know, go along with that.
[00:02:31] Amri Kibbler: Wow. So it's actually lucky that you weren't officially divorced when, when you got diagnosed. Yeah.
[00:02:38] Steven Binder: Financially lucky, but yeah,
[00:02:39] Amri Kibbler: financially lucky, right?
[00:02:40] Steven Binder: Yeah.
[00:02:40] Amri Kibbler: And Steve, what were you thinking at this time? How were you feeling?
[00:02:46] Steven Binder: Well, you know, there was a lot of feelings, uh, shock. There was one phrase that just kept going through my mind, which is that the kids can't lose their mother. That just kind of kept. You know, sort of full stop, underlying bold flashing lights like that, that just kept flashing in my head, you know?
[00:03:03] Steven Binder: And then you do whatever you need to do to make that happen.
[00:03:07] Amri Kibbler: So Steve, you were actually the one to give Gina the news to confirm her diagnosis. Can you tell us that story? I.
[00:03:13] Steven Binder: Yeah, she was in Vermont with her boyfriend and I got a call from our, our doctor, and he had gotten results from this second and third opinion that we had gotten and said it was cancer.
[00:03:23] Steven Binder: And my first thought was, can I wait to tell her how serious is this? Because the last time he came into town, I got the flu and was so sick I couldn't even stand. And I ruined their vacation. And I'm like, oh my God, I'm gonna ruin another vacation. Even though I'm not the one who, you know, created the cancer, but that was the first thing that popped in my head and I was he, he and he said, yeah, you got a couple days.
[00:03:45] Steven Binder: And then I just thought about it and I was like, I don't know, you know, the kids can't believe their mother. I don't know that I'm on a wait a couple days. Also, Gina will kill me when she comes back if I waited a couple days. So I just picked the phone and I called her and, and, um, I, I think the first thing I might have asked Gina was, are you driving?
[00:04:03] Steven Binder: Because last time when you got just a suspicious report, you almost drove off the road. And as I think as soon as I said that, I don't wanna speak for you, Gina, but I think as soon as I said that she knew something good wasn't gonna come next.
[00:04:14] Gina Lamanna: Yes, you called to tell me you have some good news and some bad news, and obviously I requested the bad news for us.
[00:04:20] Gina Lamanna: We do not remember what the good news was at the time. But there, again, going back to why I had him call me is my annual screenings, my mammograms and ultrasounds were clear, but I kept feeling something and I went back to my doctor. We did another ultrasound. She told me to come back in six months 'cause she felt it, but she didn't see anything on the second ultrasound.
[00:04:39] Gina Lamanna: And then I asked her, I said, I need some reassurance. What would be my next step? And she said, an MRI. But your insurance won't cover it because of the various reasons. Everything was normal. So fast forward to me getting an MRI and then I, when I had the MRI, I got the phone call while I was driving with my dad.
[00:04:57] Gina Lamanna: It was around Thanksgiving. My dad was in town and we're on our way to go get my daughters. And when she called me to tell me she f my doctor called to tell me that they had found suspicious findings. I literally almost went off the road. I just like, just, you know, freaked out and just lost. Lost, you know, lost myself.
[00:05:14] Gina Lamanna: And um, obviously I didn't wanna rinse and repeat of that. So when we. I went forward with the second and third opinion. I gave my doctors their permission. Please call Steven my ex-husband with the results so he knows that I'm safe. I'm not driving, I'm not with my daughters. Like I'm going to be in a safe space where he can deliver the unfortunate news.
[00:05:36] Gina Lamanna: So that is why I. Steven was the one that made the call.
[00:05:39] Steven Binder: Hey Regina, I don't know if I ever told you this, but those suspicious findings, I did like super deep PubMed dive on those suspicious findings. And what I found was 50% of the time it was, it was invasive breast cancer. And I just, I kept that to myself.
[00:05:54] Steven Binder: I figured why? You know, why, why alarm anyone before you? You needed to be alarmed because. You know, like I said, sheers, like she said, sheers drove off the road. But you know, I had a sinking feeling even back then. 50 percent's not a good place to be.
[00:06:08] Amri Kibbler: It sounds like to me, even though you guys were getting divorced, Steven, you really were thinking about Gina first.
[00:06:15] Amri Kibbler: Not only worried about her running off the road, of course, but you're thinking about her vacation with her boyfriend and her feelings in every which way, which I think is something just so rare that you're gonna find in a couple that's going through something like this. It's pretty amazing.
[00:06:31] Steven Binder: Well, that's the kind version.
[00:06:32] Steven Binder: You could also say that I was thinking of myself, but boy was I gonna get into trouble. So, you know it's 50 50.
[00:06:40] Amri Kibbler: Yeah. Yeah. Well, Gina, you've mentioned to me many ways that Steve really showed up for you. Could you share some examples of some things that stick with you that could be helpful for another couple that's going through something like this?
[00:06:56] Gina Lamanna: Of course. Well, Steven is notoriously known for keeping files and medical records, very organized, so he always had all of my lab reports and mammogram screenings and whatnot. Very organized. So that was a great help when we needed him at a. You know, quickly, he is great with research. You know, he'll go down that rabbit hole and research various things.
[00:07:19] Gina Lamanna: We would get a result from a doctor and he would be, you know, harvesting PubMed and or Pub MD, what is it? PubMed, right? PubMed, yeah. Pub PubMed. Yeah, pub md. So he is really, he's my research guy, but most importantly, he showed up to pretty much every doctor's appointment if he could not physically be there.
[00:07:38] Gina Lamanna: He was there via FaceTime. He helped me with lists of questions that I should. 'cause when, as you know, when you are confirmed or faced with a cancer diagnosis, there's so much information and all, I'm so much in my mind thinking, am I gonna die? You got kids right. Anyway, but he was really great just being there questions and taking in all the information.
[00:08:05] Gina Lamanna: But, um. But and also be by my bedside. You know, one of the first persons there when I would wake up just knowing that I was okay and he was the guy that, you know, when you go into surgery, when you go under, there's so many risks. You just never know. And I know that God forbid us, something went south, he'd be the guy and know exactly what to do.
[00:08:28] Gina Lamanna: He would act fast, get me the best possible kid like he would have my back. Whereas some ex. Husbands or would be like, pull the plug or you know, I don't care. You know, so he really showed up. He showed up in so many ways. He showed up financially too. He helped me quite a bit financially 'cause I had to take off from work, taking care of the kids, making sure the kids were safe, having the conversations, the very real conversations with our little girls and his sense of humor on occasion, you know, was, was super helpful.
[00:09:04] Steven Binder: Then keep going.
[00:09:07] Gina Lamanna: No, but I mean, it, it was remarkable considering, I mean, when we separated it wasn't horrific. It was amicable. But of course there's, there was, there's always great love between us, you know? But there's also a little bit of, you know, sadness because, I don't wanna say we broke up our family because we're still a family unit, but our family was broken.
[00:09:28] Gina Lamanna: You know, and you just don't know how one would react to show up for you. But he showed up in all the ways. And even like my doctors and my surgeons were like, they had never seen anything like it. Like your ex-husband is here. Wait, your ex-husband is joining us on this, on this meeting. Your ex-husband's on your bedside.
[00:09:47] Gina Lamanna: Like they've never seen anything like it. And they just found it to be so heartwarming and amazing and just like, wow. You know, so, and he continues to be, you know. A very supportive and my rock and just, I, he's awesome.
[00:10:07] Amri Kibbler: You're so lucky to have him
[00:10:08] Gina Lamanna: through this. Concur. I'm very lucky for sure. And so are my daughters.
[00:10:14] Gina Lamanna: You know, we're, we're very close family, but he's really, um, he's been there for our kids. 'cause, you know, uh, our youngest was what? Three and a half, four. So she didn't really, four and a half, didn't really quite know what was going on. I think, you know, when I couldn't pick her up post me section, I think that was kinda like what, there was a disconnected like, why can't mommy hold me?
[00:10:37] Gina Lamanna: Like I'm in a recliner. I can't lift my arms. So that was a bit confusing, but our oldest was eight. About eight. And at the time, her teacher had just gone through it. And she actually had the same doctor and the same plastic surgeon and medical team. So I think at the time that really helped our oldest because she got to witness and observe her teacher feeling good.
[00:11:03] Gina Lamanna: I. Showing up to work, you know, showing up to, to work, to teach. And this particular teacher surviving. Surviving, yes. And she kind of took Ava under her wing and was like, your mom's gonna be okay. And kind of, look, I'm thriving and she's under, she has the best medical care. You know, I had that care, I had that doctor.
[00:11:22] Gina Lamanna: So I think that helped Ava a bit. And now that Ava is older, I say I probably get a question regarding breast health and my breast cancer. Every other month for my oldest daughter. 'cause I do think in the back of her mind, she's got a little bit of anxiety and worry because she is 16. Her grandmother had it, I had it, you know.
[00:11:43] Gina Lamanna: But I'm trying to gently teach her to become confident and empower her to know her body and pay attention to all the changes that her body's going to go through as she enters adolescence, you know?
[00:11:57] Amri Kibbler: And of course you've been communicating with her so much so like. She's doing her own exams and like you've got her at an early age understanding, um, how important that is, Gina.
[00:12:07] Amri Kibbler: So Steven, how were you doing all of this? Even though you guys had an amicable divorce, it still must have been really so hard for you. What do you think was the most challenging part of being able to show up for Gina like this at such a difficult time?
[00:12:25] Steven Binder: You know, I, I'm just gonna go back to the kids.
[00:12:28] Steven Binder: Can't lose their mother. So, you know, whatever, whatever love, whatever I would do for them, I would do for her. And you know, kids are our greatest source of strength, also our greatest vulnerability. But I think it was that, I don't think there was a decision. There was no other option. This is what needed to happen.
[00:12:47] Steven Binder: That's it. It's just the kids can't lose their mother. The end.
[00:12:52] Amri Kibbler: Is there anything that you wish you knew before going into this journey? Maybe that someone who had been through a similar situation could have shared with you that you feel like would've helped you to feel more prepared?
[00:13:07] Steven Binder: Yeah. You know, it's ultimately, this comes down to medical choices.
[00:13:11] Steven Binder: That's what do we do? What are our chances? Um, I know Gina. It said that I'm medically organized. I was, I got paper statements of my blood tests and things prior to this. It was really this process that led me to get so organized. I wish someone earlier had said, and I do this now for myself, I do it for the kids.
[00:13:33] Steven Binder: I get copies of every medical re. I wish someone had said this to me at every doctor visit I went to. So you just can collect them over the years should you need them. Get every medical record you have, get the paper report. If you get an MRI ask for the disc and get the disc could back it up on your computer and throw the disc away.
[00:13:49] Steven Binder: I wish someone had told me that because when you're making medical decisions, you need to collect this information. And it was very burdensome to go track down the stuff, especially because every single report or every single MRI, you wonder, is this the bit of information that's gonna save her life. So it would've been great to have that.
[00:14:07] Steven Binder: Upfront, ongoing, just as life went on it. It's probably less important now because there's a lot of more digital records, but I, I wouldn't hang my head on that for sure. Especially if you're traveling to another state or out of state for medical advice, just to have everything and present it all to the doctor because you have a limited amount of time with them.
[00:14:27] Steven Binder: And I, I say to Gina, I said, I don't want this guy if I have to drive four hours to go pick up this and wait for this report. I don't wanna be sitting there and have the doctor go, oh yeah, I don't have your MR mri. Don't worry about that. I'll get that later. Like, I don't even want 10 seconds of his time spent wondering where the information is.
[00:14:44] Steven Binder: I think that's, that's the biggest thing I wish someone had told me was to just be prepared, because you never know. I. And, uh, it was the most time consuming. And then, you know your, it's time away from work, which is stressful. It's then time away from your family, which is stressful. And time is sort of everything.
[00:15:00] Steven Binder: That's really what we're talking about is maximizing our time on the planet.
[00:15:04] Amri Kibbler: I teamed up with Stacy Igel and Elyse Ryan to create S.E.A. Waves of Support: healing selenite bracelet sets. You keep one and gift the other to someone facing cancer or life's challenges. A powerful reminder, they're not alone. Learn more at seawavesofsupport.com. It's true. You do feel like you're in their office and you've got a limited amount of time and you have to have every single question that you wanna ask them and all of your information there, and then like your next appointment, it might not be for. You know, another month.
[00:15:33] Amri Kibbler: So if you don't have everything all together and like when you're going through it, Gina, I'm sure you felt like this. I couldn't remember anything. I couldn't like keep track of my keys. I was just so overwhelmed and scatterbrained and like. I, I couldn't even come up with a question to ask. So having a partner to help to organize all of that, I'm sure was just so important.
[00:15:54] Amri Kibbler: I wanna talk about how you two were co-parenting during this time with your two girls. What was that like for you two? What was that season like for your girls? How did you support them emotionally, Steven? Were you talking to them separately about what Gina was going through, or did you, did you co-parent together?
[00:16:13] Steven Binder: I think both because we had custody at different times with them. I dunno if anyone can understand this diagnosis when they get it. Much less a child who thinks everyone's gonna live forever. So I'm not sure how much kids really can understand it, even if you are completely honest with them. We had medical reasons to be positive.
[00:16:30] Steven Binder: I focused on those with the kids. I think, Gina, you reminded me, we talked about, this is gonna sound strange. There's the, the good cancer and the bad cancer, or the good cancer being the kind that you. Have and you deal with and it sucks, and then it's over. And then there's the bad one where you have it and then you know you're at a funeral.
[00:16:49] Steven Binder: We distinguish those and part of the reason we did that is because we knew they were gonna go into the world and they were gonna hear from their friends. As soon as cancer came out, oh, my grandma had cancer, she died. They were gonna hear a lot of death cancer stories. So we wanted to segregate those and let them know that mommy had the good cancer.
[00:17:08] Steven Binder: But I think, you know, I. There's only so much a, a, a kid can, grok can understand about this, especially, especially their parents' mortality. So I, I don't know if being completely honest, lands on them the way it lands on an adult and we just focus on what we were doing, what was gonna happen. If they had questions, we answer them, but I don't know.
[00:17:31] Steven Binder: I don't know that we went too deep into things with our four and a half year old, let's put it that way.
[00:17:36] Gina Lamanna: Yeah, we didn't. It was Ava, we, our oldest, we had more intentional conversations. And now, you know, again, like I, as I mentioned, Ava and I will talk here and there, especially when October rolls around.
[00:17:50] Gina Lamanna: You know, Ava has, she gets, she more curious and wants to know more. And you know, now since I've launched The Fondle Project too, she's a little bit more in tuned where Allie's, you know, she's almost 13. She doesn't quite get it just yet. You know, I mean, look, she sees me every day like taking care of her.
[00:18:12] Gina Lamanna: Like it was very important for me when I was diagnosed, even though I was scared to death, to wake up every day and show up for those girls just p, they hit it when I say this, but just power through it, like. I'm gonna show, I'm gonna wake up, I'm gonna make them their breakfast, get them ready for school.
[00:18:31] Gina Lamanna: I was in a very fortunate position, as you know, I had the studio, the buy appointment studio for many years. So it gave me the flexibility to drop off my kids every day and pick them up every day, which was Dr. Dreamy for me, which was a luxury I know. And just be their mom. You know, like still to this pre they see me cooking and cleaning and baking and doing laundry and working and, and dating and traveling, like living.
[00:18:55] Gina Lamanna: I, you know, it's so important that they see that their mom is living. You know that. 'cause if they see me, even the days where I have bad days sometimes, like, I ha I am not doing well. I'm, I'm hormonal, or I'm having a gnarly headache. Can I just need to retreat to my bedroom and just chill? You know, um, but it's very important for me, knowing that they know about my diagnosis, that I wake up and I'm positive and I'm living and I'm thriving.
[00:19:25] Gina Lamanna: 'cause I don't want them, especially my oldest, like to see me in a way. And I understand that, you know, I only can control so much, but I want them to see me, you know, living.
[00:19:38] Amri Kibbler: Yeah, and you're very honest with your girls about what you're feeling, what you're going through. And I've been there when you're having conversations around the table and talking to 'em about how you're feeling and what's happening.
[00:19:49] Amri Kibbler: And I feel like for me, when I was going through my cancer story, doing things with my girls, like still showing up for the school activities and doing those things was kind of like the anchor in the healing process and. And like being able to be with 'em and do like the normal things really made a big difference in helping me to be able to feel like I was not just surviving, but thriving and healing.
[00:20:14] Amri Kibbler: Like the relationships we have with the people that we care about are so healing during that time. Looking back, what do you think is something that has really made this work between the two, two of you as this like unconventional relationship, Steven, like sending you, calling you when you're with your new partner and updating you and all those things?
[00:20:36] Amri Kibbler: Because it really does feel like you have such a mutual respect for each other, but in the realm of divorces, it could be a little unconventional in a great way. Uh,
[00:20:45] Steven Binder: even without a cancer diagnosis, you're co-parenting. It means continuing to be parents even when the relationship has ended or crashed and burned or exploded, however it goes out, you're still the parents.
[00:20:58] Steven Binder: And I think the one thing we had above all else, even when we were having marital difficulties, uh, is that we both loved being parents. And we were in natural agreement on almost all aspects of that. We saw parenting in the same way, and we had great kids and we love the kids. And I, I think that carried us through some rough times in a marriage that maybe lasted longer than would've if, if there wasn't the kids around.
[00:21:26] Steven Binder: And, and not in a, in a stress tenuous way. We just really loved being around the kids. And once you have, you know, two kids, that's 99% of what you're doing anyway. And then when our. Marriage ended, we continued to be parents. I mean, that's it. It really comes down to that. We just continued to be parents. I think some people maybe have this idea that now that they're divorced, I don't know.
[00:21:46] Steven Binder: Their responsibilities is maybe they didn't like parenting as much or it was stressful for them, and maybe they take out some of that divorce angst on the children. I don't, I don't know what, what goes through people's minds. But on the other side of the coin is if you're a parent, you're a parent, whether you're divorced or not.
[00:22:03] Steven Binder: That means taking care of your children. It means taking care of your children's. The other most important person in your children's life. You don't lose that connection just because you're divorced and was So when the cancer diagnosis came along, I think it just solidified rubber met the road, I guess is a way to put it.
[00:22:22] Steven Binder: And, okay, do I really believe this, this thing that I'm doing? Because now I'm going, we're both gonna be tested. And we did. You know, the kids aren't weapons. They're not baseball bats to smack each other around with, 'cause you're angry at the other parent. And I, I think if you could not do that, and if you could remember that you're a parent first, all these other things flow out from that.
[00:22:42] Steven Binder: Aside from just not being an asshole.
[00:22:45] Gina Lamanna: Yeah. It's about quitting your children first and make, allowing that to be your compass when you're going through something like that. Right. You have to. Put down the ego, you know, have empathy and obviously great respect. But as I mentioned many times to you and in the past, he really was part, he was you, Steve, where he was a true partner in my healing still to this present day.
[00:23:14] Amri Kibbler: Okay, last question. Do you think that this experience has changed your relationship at all?
[00:23:22] Steven Binder: I'm gonna let you go first on that one.
[00:23:24] Gina Lamanna: I, I do. Um, I think it's definitely made us stronger. I mean, I don't love him any, I mean, I don't, it's not that I love him more. I've always loved Steve. We just are, you know, being husband and wife, we, we clash quite a bit.
[00:23:44] Gina Lamanna: I think our relationship is much stronger because we. We do, like Steven said, like our girls are everything to us and we're really great parents. Sometimes we don't agree on some of the, you know, parental things, but majority of the time we're very aligned and I think that the love that we have for one of another, one another, our daughters are family unit.
[00:24:09] Gina Lamanna: I. And that until the end, right? Like if I, I'm his rock, God forbid anything happens to him, like I care about him so much and his health and his wellbeing and all of that. So I think just, I think we're better friends.
[00:24:27] Steven Binder: I was going to say when we, and I'm speaking for myself, but I think, I think it probably applies to Gina too.
[00:24:33] Steven Binder: You, and you're getting divorced and it's, you know, you're married to someone, they're, you're. Life partner and theoretically someone you trust, you know, with everything. And then as you're getting divorced, that gets broken. And do I trust this person? How much do I trust this person? What's my relationship gonna be like with this person?
[00:24:49] Steven Binder: Like all of that's in flux. You don't know where you're gonna land. And I think we would've landed in a good place. I. Anyway, I, I don't know how much longer it might have taken to land in that place, but this was sort of a immediate, it's funny, Gina, it felt immediate to me. It was a year, but it felt like very quickly I had just moved out.
[00:25:09] Steven Binder: We had just gotten settled custody, and we were getting used to our new life, and suddenly it was like. You know, like being in a, in the Millennium Falcon, going Lightspeed into the future with this person. And it just, it demonstrated almost immediately that we were gonna be there for each other when the shit hit the fan and that the support has no limits.
[00:25:30] Steven Binder: I. Because there are those, I mean, we've already tested the bottom. I don't know what else there is beyond this. And so I think it accelerated what would've been a, a natural progression to landing in a good place. And I think demonstrated that the good place is as good as it gets. As good as you could hope, as good you could want or expect from a an X.
[00:25:49] Amri Kibbler: So one thing that I wanted to, um, bring up here that we didn't get a chance to talk about is how we can support our partners. During a cancer diagnosis?
[00:26:00] Gina Lamanna: Yes. I think that's one thing that is not discussed often. And one thing that we tend to forget while we're in the, in the midst of a cancer diagnosis, and I bring this up because I remember, I think it was my, I had six surgeries, I think it was my second surgery.
[00:26:17] Gina Lamanna: My, I think it was for my double mastectomy. Steven was there, and so it was my best friend and she had shared with me while I was under the knife. That she, um, was one of the first times she had seen him since we had separated, so it was quite some time. She asked him, how are you doing? And he had shared with her.
[00:26:38] Gina Lamanna: He's like, you know, he doesn't have anybody, you know, guys don't really have these conversations with, I think some men should say, oh, men are not very in touch with their feelings, or, you know, they don't really want to show their vulnerability and whatnot, but. She had asked him like, how are you doing through all of this?
[00:26:57] Gina Lamanna: And he basically was like, he's just trying to survive himself and take care of the children. But he was like, I don't have the support system like Gina does. I don't have the girlfriends in the community, like I don't have anyone to talk to. And that really hit me when she told me this. So I made it. I made the intention to check in with him on occasion, and also my, my current partner at the time, my boyfriend, who was living in New York, like, because it affects them as well.
[00:27:25] Gina Lamanna: So I think it's very important to check in with them. Like, how are you doing? What do you need from me? If you're not in the physical or emotional, mental space to help your partner reach out to a friend of theirs, which I did. I reached out to Steven's best friend like, Hey, Doug, I. Can you check in on him?
[00:27:43] Gina Lamanna: 'cause this is heavy for him. You know, or maybe seek counsel for them or suggest a therapist or do some of the legwork for them. Say, okay, I have an appointment for you, set up for you to speak to this person. Or suggest them to, to visit at, you know, yoga or, or take, remind them they need to take care of themselves too and just, you know, or to seek out support, whatever that looks like.
[00:28:10] Gina Lamanna: Because I think that's very important, especially when you're dealing with a family unit too, because they're trying to keep it together for the kids, but who's taking care of them. So I think that's something that we need to, and I still check in with Steve. I remember, I don't know, two years ago, I had a scare, another little scare, I don't know how many years ago it was.
[00:28:31] Gina Lamanna: And I remember him saying to me, he's like, I still can't believe that you went through this. I wish it happened to me. So when he said that to me, I knew that he was still internalizing and like, and I just had a breast MRI the other day, so I know that still brings up stuff and fear for him. So when I gave give him the results, he's like, just as relieved as I am.
[00:28:55] Gina Lamanna: Right. Yeah. 'cause it's. It affects him too. So I think that's very important for whoever is going through cancer and listening right now. And if you don't have the ability or want to do this, even if it's with an ex-partner, check in with one of their loved ones or friends or family say, can you please check in with her or him, you know, and find out what they need so you know what kind of support they need during this time.
[00:29:22] Amri Kibbler: Yeah, I mean, I found something similar. So, and when I was going through my first, um, diagnosis, it was during like the heart of COVID. So my husband Jason, who he's like incredibly supportive and he's really also one of those just like, needs to be done. I'm gonna show up, I'm gonna do it. No matter what it is, I'll make it happen.
[00:29:41] Amri Kibbler: I'll drive to the city and back and I'll get you, and I'll go here and I'll do there and I'll do, and I'll do and I'll do, and I, I said to him. Where are all your friends and. Most of them had sort of disappeared. It was really interesting to me. I had people texting me and checking on me and sending me messages, but there was like one or two of his friends that would reach out to him, but it was really just very few.
[00:30:09] Amri Kibbler: And I felt how sad is that that, that he didn't have that support and that people weren't thinking about him in that way. That they weren't worried about him and. He like couldn't express himself and like what he was going through at the time. 'cause all he could think about was all of the tasks and things that needed to be done of like getting me to my appointments and taking care of the kids and managing all of the things.
[00:30:30] Amri Kibbler: And you know, it wasn't until like I was in the clear that that. Again, we were like, wow, I really can't believe that we have survived this together, and we've been through all of these things. And then even just last year, he had a brain aneurysm and so the roles were reversed and I was like. Oh my God.
[00:30:49] Amri Kibbler: All of a sudden I feel what it's like to be the other person that's there. And you're trying to be the support system and like, stay strong and not show the emotions and like make them feel like there's a safe place and that they're held and all of those things. And it's really hard being on the other side.
[00:31:07] Amri Kibbler: Um, and I, I kind of understood. How much support that person needs and how meaningful it is to get a check-in and to get someone to say, Hey, how are you doing? Do you need to talk about this? Do you wanna share what's going on with you? And just even having a few minutes to tell them to think about it.
[00:31:27] Amri Kibbler: 'cause like when you're in the middle of it. You kind of check out of it. You're like, okay, let me take all those emotions and feelings and put them in this box and like lock it up and like, I can't look at it right now 'cause I just have to be the rock and I'm gonna be the rock. Um, so yes, you're right.
[00:31:42] Amri Kibbler: Just checking in on that person,
[00:31:43] Gina Lamanna: creating, creating that safe space for 'em to be vulnerable because men tend to, to tend to hold those feelings in, internalize them. But also there's many people as we know, not just, I mean, when I was first diagnosed. There was a lot of friends that disappeared. A lot of people don't know how to, don't know how to address or navigate a friend or a loved one's diagnosis.
[00:32:09] Gina Lamanna: You know, it's hard. They don't know how, they don't know what to say. They don't know what to do. They dunno what to say, so they just, you know, they disappear.
[00:32:17] Amri Kibbler: It is true. I experienced that, but I also had lots of people that were there for me. So it minimized that for me. But I found, I was thinking, 'cause they're guys, it's hard for guys, it's hard for 'em to express emotion.
[00:32:28] Amri Kibbler: They don't know what to say, so they just kind of pull back and then, you know, slowly people started coming back around and being in his life again and you know, he was like, okay, just like letting him in. I think I held a grudge more than he did for some of those people that weren't there for him.
[00:32:44] Gina Lamanna: Yeah, me too.
[00:32:46] Gina Lamanna: Me too, for sure. But yeah, I think it's very important to do those check-ins to see like how they're doing. Because again, it affects everybody.
[00:32:56] Amri Kibbler: Thanks so much for joining me on this episode of The Space Between. If this show brought you comfort or a sense of community, I'd love for you to subscribe and share it with anyone who might need it too.
[00:33:07] Amri Kibbler: You can join the conversation on Instagram at thespacebetween_cancer.family and head to amrikibbler.com for more resources. Designed to support parents navigating cancer. Just remember, you're never alone. This podcast is here as a companion on your journey towards healing, growth, and connection.