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This podcast is focused on challenges that are routinely encountered by men aged 50 - 70, but
not often discussed. Although targeted to them, this is also applicable to older / younger men
who are looking for ways to age differently, as well as the women that are involved in their lives.
Stress, relationships, male friendships, diet, mindfulness, aging with vitality and dying are just
some of the many topics that are covered. A rotating series of guest speakers join the podcast
to provide insights and wisdom relating to other relevant topics such as EMF radiation,
emotional intelligence, mindfulness and hair health.
(upbeat music) - Welcome everybody to the latest podcast, 50 to 70, Meaningful Conversations Between Men. I'm here with my good friend,
Peter Kaelin. - Hey, Darius, how you doing? - Did I pronounce your name wrong? - No, you pronounced it fine. - Oh, wonderful. I always sometimes think it's either Kaelin or Kaelin, but I got it right,
so it's all good to be here. - It's my pleasure. It's always fun. for us to get together and share a meaningful conversation with our audience.
And today's topic, as you know, is one that's dear to my heart. - Yeah, this is one of those ones where I've seen farther, it's only because I've sat on the shoulder of a giant and that in my mind is you,
as today we're talking about mindfulness. - Well, you're too kind. I often say that mindfulness is the most important thing. not about me, it's about what's already inside of you. And I've learned that from my practices and my studies of the concepts that are inherent to mindfulness.
And I'm delighted to be able to share that with the audience today. - Peter, why do you think it's important that we dedicate a full episode on mindfulness? - It just has concepts of wisdom.
wisdom that could be inculcated, incorporated into the lives of our listeners,
into the lives of any human, to allow for them to choose to make their life more joyful, more abundant,
and perhaps with less suffering, less pain. pain. And so having seen that, having now for over a dozen years worked with individuals one -on -one,
taught Mind from the Space stress reduction classes, had my own practice of meditation, had a practice of yoga and study of yoga that started even before I moved into this arena.
of mindfulness. All of that has allowed me to observe and witness potential benefits that come from these concepts. That is the science,
is the art, is the essence of what mindfulness is and it's been around for a bit. Yeah, so I think for this episode mindfulness is a construct that is a little more concept that's a little more abstract.
It's not as well known yet as some of the other things that we've been talking about So I think it would be helpful if we were to take a step back and define What mindfulness is so that everybody has that?
Understanding of what it is that we are talking about From there, I think we should share how we each found mindfulness because it was different journeys to to get there.
I'd love to share and hear about your experience with mindfulness and the impact that it's had on your life and the lives of those around you. Talk about how we've incorporated into our day -to -day lives as well as the struggles because like any practice,
there has to be challenge, there has to be struggle to continue to grow. So let's start off, Peter. Peter, how do we define mindfulness for the listener that is hearing the word mindfulness for the first time or has heard it in the media or heard somebody talk about it,
but there's no clue what it is we're talking about. Mindfulness has become quite popular in the vernacular, the modern Western vernacular. And people view it as meditation and they think of it as maybe mindfulness.
mindful movements, but primarily I think I feel like most people simplify it as just meditation. And it's much more profound than that.
Those are aspects of it, but mindfulness can have an impact not only in your capacity to calm yourself and relax yourself,
but also to ease your experience. in your life that maybe currently causes you stress and anxiety, causes you pain. And so mindfulness has the capacity for that.
But it's not because mindfulness is something external to you. It's because it's awakening what's already in you. - So what is mindfulness?
- Mindfulness is paying attention. on purpose, and I like to say by choice, moment by moment, and without judgment.
- Paying attention, on purpose, by choice, moment to moment, without judgment. - Yeah, and I left out in a particular way. - In a particular way.
- So how did you come to start practicing? mindfulness? What was your initial introduction to it? Indirect.
An undercurrent in my life that began when I was 15 and maybe prior to that. But something awakened when I picked up a book on yoga.
And my intention at the time was to use yoga. to, and this was intuitive, to stretch and prevent injuries. I was a young,
budding, aspiring athlete, and I thought, and I'm not sure why, this yoga stuff might help. Now, an interesting aside is that now professional athletes are hiring yoga instructors to help them reach their optimal.
physical well -being. But I took it at the time, and no,
this wasn't back at the time when they wore leather helmets. They actually wore the hard case ones. And I started using it, and it had benefits right away.
At fewer injuries, I found myself having a a kind of tenuous strength, like the cables of the San Francisco Bridge.
And it wasn't just bulk strength anymore. And I felt the difference right away. There was just something that brought it to my attention. But that wasn't where I stopped.
stopped. I started looking and studying a little bit more about what yoga was historically and what the history and science was. And it fascinated me how yoga spoke about the mind.
It talked about heart and emotions. It spoke about how it the experience,
the human condition, and the afflictions we suffer. I was just fascinated by all of that stuff. And then come to learn later that Carl Jung and Sigmund Freud both did quite extensive study of yoga.
Carl Jung has a number of essays on yoga that were published. published and those two men are considered the father of psychology and so that kind of gives you an indication of the profundity of the information,
the knowledge that was there in yoga and that remained an undercurrent for me my entire life. And eventually, I mean,
through circuits of playing in college, doing other things. doing triathlons, it was a constant. I used it to stretch before stretching maybe was a popular thing to do before an activity.
I used it to sit and be still sometimes, like we see professional athletes like LeBron James do now. Sometimes they just sit and they focus. What are they doing? Is that called meditation?
That's something that I would doing ages ago, and I didn't know what to call it. It was just something that made sense. It was part of the practice of yoga. And so that was,
again, a thread that wove through the fabric of my life. And eventually it led me to teach yoga and circuitous.
I was studying, as I said, one of the earlier years. episodes, for my doctorate in human rights. And I segwayed off of that path, started teaching yoga and just allowed myself to be taken by it.
And it's brought me to where I'm at now after going through studies and getting certified to teach mindfulness -based stress reduction and learning more about mindfulness.
mindfulness and what it means and How it works. So present moment awareness By choice by choice in a particular way Moment -to -moment without judgment.
Yes. Why without judgment any thoughts we talked about this I had a question for you though. It's that sounds simple But it really isn't that simple. No,
it's not No, it's not It we we live in a world environments we live within a human condition Where we are constantly distracted by our thoughts By our feelings even though we're not always aware of our feelings and our emotions.
Yeah by the physical experiences we're having and We're not paying attention attention. And so mindfulness encourages,
intends for you to pay attention. Why? So that you can be present. Not in rumination over what if,
what could have, what should have, regretting, fretting. And not in the future, usually forecasting because because of your worries your doubts your fears something dire is about to happen no mindfulness through practice encourages you just to be present so that you can be here and now recognizing that there's not the pain and of the past or the worries of the future in this month but rather there's joy here.
I mean, there's enough challenges without bringing the challenges from yesterday or tomorrow. And so mindfulness helps with that. I'll say one other thing, Doris. - Please. - The essence of mindfulness is being aware.
And in more common language, mindfulness is being aware. and paying attention, being attendant and paying attention, and then from there choosing to be present.
- Yeah, it's interesting because when I first learned mindfulness from you, being aware, I misinterpreted. And what I mean by that is I thought initially it was being aware of what was going on.
around you. It was noticing the colors, noticing, feeling the air, seeing the people and engaging with the people.
But as I've started the practice, I realized that's half the coin. The other half is to become aware, maybe even more than half of what is going on.
within you, not just physically, listening to the body and what the body's trying to say, but feeling the emotions, acknowledging those emotions and not simply stuffing them down,
acknowledging the thoughts and whether those thoughts are ruminations or worry about the future, also known as anxiety, it is noticing where your head is.
is, where your heart is, where your body is, and then making a conscious choice to either, you know what, I'm gonna go off on this flight of fancy that there's gonna be,
I'm a big surfer, there's gonna be head high waves and I'm not gonna have to wear a wetsuit in New England, I'm gonna be able to surf great, not worry about sharks, or I'm gonna say, okay, that's not productive right now,
let's bring the mind back, let's bring the body back to where we're at, I'm gonna go on this flight of fancy, I'm gonna go off on this flight of fancy, I'm gonna go on this flight of fancy, I'm gonna go off on this flight of fancy, let's move forward. - Yes, exactly. - Yeah, so that present moment awareness, again, such a simple definition,
but so easy to misunderstand. - Yes, it is. And you're able to, because of that practice, you're able to enjoy your surfing rather than worrying about the sharks and the waves and everything else.
- Exactly. - So that's a great example. - That's a great example. - That's a great example. - That's a great example. gonna be the challenges. Life is full of challenges. - So what are some of the challenges? - This is like I mentioned,
the challenge of just being, choosing to be here and living your life now and not regurgitating the experiences that you,
the pain from the past or worrying about the future. future and the uncertainties. Those always exist. Those challenges will be there. But there's also moments of a smile maybe on your child's face or a friend's face,
the touch. And if you're not present with that, you'll miss that. That's what mindfulness is intended to do. It's kind of practical endless,
this raising. exercise, even though that can happen, it's actually quite practical. And that's what I try often to share. It's not about,
again, being calm or relaxed. There's so much more there. It's about having the balance, the capacity to be calm,
balanced. when you're in a difficult situation, when you're feeling stressed, when your mind is off on a tangent and your heart is like a tidal wave overwhelming you,
you can bring yourself back through these practices to just noticing it, noticing all these things I just mentioned, your mind is just racing, you can't stop,
your heart is overwhelming you. you with feelings in your gut. Your body maybe even has sensations. But you have the capacity through the practices you've been doing,
meditation. But meditation is nothing more than just paying attention. - Yeah. So is moving meditation, mindful walking, yoga.
I can give you an example this morning when I was at the gym. My mind is just racing. not in my workout. It was everywhere else, but right in front of me So I managed to get through it.
I was conscious of it chose to get through it and then When it came time at the end of every workout, I'll stretch for half an hour. I Put my phone away. I shut my eyes and I just started breathing and focused on the breathing and feeling the body and With me it doesn't happen instantly It takes a little bit of time to come back in to recenter,
as I call it, or to just come back in the body and become aware of everything. But within eight or 10 minutes, I was again feeling the body. I was back in the moment. I wasn't thinking about the stream of conscious or subconscious chatter that my mind was throwing at me to distract me from the pain of the workout that I was going through.
Yes. - Yes, and that's just one example of the constant distractions that we're experiencing each and every one of us. I mean, you name that one.
I can name some where I'm just waking up in the morning and I just feel like, oh my, my joint's ache. I feel this 70. And then I remind myself,
it's going to be okay. just a moment. And that comes from practice. It just doesn't happen. And I wanna impress that on the audience.
It takes practice, practicing being attentive and present with the moment. And meditation helps with that. And like you said,
the mindful movements. And then I'm able to... to get up, sit on the edge of the bed instead of rushing to check my email or check my texts or figure out what's next on my to -do list.
I pause for a moment. I take a breath. - So you asked why without judgment earlier? - Yes. - Because it's acceptance. - Yes,
what do you mean? - We need to accept where we are at right now. Let's take the achy joints. We're men 50 to 70. (upbeat music) I would go out and say the vast majority of us have some kind of ache or pain that we are waking up with.
Yeah. So we need to be in the moment, not judge that this is good or bad or absolute or absolute. It's always going to be like this. So I can't do X,
Y and Z. This is how it's feeling today. I now have choices that I can make this shall. Yes. Shall I have a hot shower? Shall I have a sauna? Shall I go to the gym?
Shall I ride the bike? Do I need to call a chiropractor? Should I get a massage? Or should I drink a lot of alcohol and have some anti -inflammatories? Right? There's all choices that can be made in response to where you're at.
And it's the judgment. This is bad. It's always going to be like this. this that then creates, at least in my experience, that negative cascade in the mind that just continues versus accepting.
In this present moment, here is where I am. Yes. Now, how am I going to move forward? I'll share with you, and it's not something I often do with classes. I do when I'm privately working with individuals.
Your mindset is so important. You know, you mentioned Victor Frankel in his book in our last episode, and his focus was on staying positive and finding the positive even in the midst of a horrendous experience of the Holocaust and death and dying.
And that mindset is something that can be cultivated with the practice of mindfulness as well. Not bringing your judgments, having patience. having a beginner's mind,
waiting for things as if it's the first time rather than introducing your biases and your conclusions. And there's just so much more to this that is beyond just meditating.
- But when you get to mindset, you are, you know, you're opening Pandora's box in my mind. And the reason I say that is because because how does one get to a mindset?
One gets to a mindset based on an underlying belief system that may or may not be conscious. And where those beliefs enter the psyche,
how they take up residence in the psyche can be incredibly profound. Yeah, usually traumatic. and if not traumatic strong enough to leave a deep imprint in your psyche and that imprint is The way I describe it Let's say you fell mm -hmm,
and you scarred yourself the scar would heal So your body can kind of resilient has a resilience to kind of find its balance the immune system again your mind mind will process the fact that you experience this pain,
it was not comfortable, you don't want to repeat it, and so you have some memories, but memories fade. Memories fade. Let's say you had fear and anger,
or you fear the occurrence of falling again. That emotion of fear, my experience. and I welcome the audience to, again,
be your own lab and be your own observer, your own witness, and see if any of this is true for you. That fear doesn't seem to ever go away. Now,
it doesn't show up the same way. It's not like every time you're like walking down that same pathway, you're thinking, "Oh, I'm afraid I'm gonna fall," even though that may be true. No, my experience is that fear,
anger, guilt, shame, they have like a ripple effect. And that ripple effect dictates your behavior in the future because you're on autopilot. I gotta be careful,
I gotta watch out, or this is really pissing me off. And you're not sure why, but that's what you're feeling. And then you start thinking. And then you start, maybe let's say you're in front of somebody having a conversation.
I don't like that. that tone of voice. You don't recall that maybe you had a confrontation with somebody who used that tone of voice. This is just an instance, an example.
And you got really pissed off, angry, maybe even had a fight. And that's what you're hearing in this moment, but you can't separate because the feeling doesn't distinguish. It just feels like the same as that moment.
And mindfulness... Mindfulness for me my experience and some that I know has helped me be aware of this and how prior experiences Traumas included affect the present moment and we're not aware of it and I think part of it is Consciously or subconsciously we are recreating that prior moment that trauma trauma,
so that we can hopefully learn from it, heal, and move on. However, if we're not cognizant of what is going on,
if we haven't looked for what I've heard called the source fracture, that initial trauma, well then you're just going to keep repeating it ad nauseam, and it becomes the definition of insanity.
But I notice you... wearing your Michigan hat. I was wondering if there's a story that you might wanna tell as we get back to beliefs and the insidious nature of beliefs. - So you didn't think the M was for mindfulness?
- No, but that's actually a great way we could tell. We could call up Jim Harbaugh right now and say we're gonna rebrand Michigan. - Yeah, well, I wore the hat.
hat kind of as a reminder to share how this practice of mindfulness has helped me personally. Mindfulness as we just discussed helps you be aware and pay attention and let's say be aware of an experience and emotion generated from the past and how it has happened.
a ripple effect in your life or is having an effect today. And one of the things mindfulness helped me with is I was a scholarship athlete at the University of Michigan.
And in my first year there, my high school... um, girlfriend gave birth to my oldest son. I was 17.
And they came out my sophomore year. But I eventually transferred from Michigan. There was just too much going on for a 17,
18 year old to be able to kind of figure out how he felt about it. how he would manage it. And I thought I was doing the best I could.
I was practicing Victor Franco even in those days trying to be positive. I'll figure this out, I'll solve this problem. It's been kind of how things had been. And I left and I went to Temple and I then went to graduate school.
You know, got my law degree as I mentioned. business degree, got some more degrees later, it was always, it felt like not enough. It always felt like it wasn't good enough.
And it also, I realized after developing that capacity to pay attention and be aware of how I was feeling, being more mindful.
I had an undercurrent in my life almost from those days of being angry. I was angry my life didn't turn out the way I wanted to. I wanted what I wanted,
when I wanted, how I wanted it. Does that sound familiar to any of you? I think a lot of people can relate. And it felt like my dreams had just been smashed. And I constantly kept proving.
to myself that I was good enough. There's a sign at the Tunnel Entrance, the University of Michigan Stadium. Those who stay will be champions.
And I never forget that. And I think to this day, I would be suffering this anger. If a couple things hadn't happened, God bless his soul.
He's passed away, but Frank was the captain captain of the undefeated Michigan team that I was a part of in 1971 -72. And they had had reunions.
I never went back because I felt I wasn't part of that. But he kept insistently trying to get me to come. And one year I did. And what he said to me is you put in the blood and the sweat of practice for two years.
years and you helped create this as well. You need to come. You're part of the family. And so that helped me. It allowed me to feel the anger.
It allowed me to put it in context in the time frame in which it existed. And I was mindful of how it was affecting me in my current life.
life, and that I had a choice. And I started making a choice not to let it continue to create residue and experiences.
In a life that has just been, I feel so blessed. As I said, four beautiful children, beautiful wife, done well in terms of academics, career.
And so... And so launching a podcast at 70. - Launching a podcast at 70, imagine that. And so that's why I'm wearing my Michigan hat today.
- I like that's a wonderful story. It just goes to show, Peter, how those small things that may have not been said to you, but that you picked up from somebody in your family,
one of your friends, become internalized and continue to manifest in way. that you don't see. It's been what two years now since I've taken your class and I'll tell you three words that stick with me from that class.
If you choose, you're the author of your own book, you're the actor of your own play. You get to choose how you want to move forward and we can't go back to the past and change events that have transpired.
It's just not possible right now. However, we do get to choose what our next step forward is going to be. If that's picking up the phone and telling somebody I haven't talked to well,
hey, I love you, I miss you, we should talk more. If it is doing something kind for somebody in your life - We can't go back to the past. - We can't go back to the past. - We can't go back to the past. if it's taking care of yourself letting go of those feelings the anger the guilt the shame the regret yeah if they're not serving you where did you learn that and how's it working out for you right where'd you
learn that that phrasing oh and you know so much of the capacity to discern where did you learn that,
and how are you serving, how's it serving you, comes down to paying attention. And this is the oddity, this is the odd example,
not so odd once I believe you become aware of it. it, but it shows the power of mindfulness and the power of meditation. I mean,
there's all these scientific explanations, but just from a practical perspective, which is what I've learned to share, it can make such a huge difference in someone's life so that they can be here in their own lives.
So mindfulness is a great construct, but there's got to be some foundational attitudes that lead up to mindfulness. or the components. What are those?
There's non -judgment and that's because judgments come from your experiences in the past and your perceptions of things that have happened or you've seen,
witnessed in the past. There's patience, there's trust. and patience is really an example of being present because if you're impatient you don't want to be here,
you want to be in the next moment or you want to be someplace else, so if you can develop this foundation, these are also like attitudes, and I've mentioned these are mindsets as well,
and I think the approach of a mindset may be more helpful. helpful. There's trust and trust is trusting yourself,
trusting that you know more than you realize and maybe you know especially more about you than you've been told. Absolutely. And beginner's mind is it for the first time,
experiencing each moment fresh and new. If you ever watch a child how their curiosity allows them to find joy. in moments, and maybe the next moment they're sad,
they fell down, they scraped their knee, and then moments later they're back to joy because they're just able to stay with the moment. They're not saying to themselves, "Oh, I scraped my knee, and now I have to be unhappy the rest of the day." No?
That's a beginner's mind. And then there's non -striving, and that's one that's difficult for our audience. Mm -hmm our modern society because we have checklists.
We have ambitions. We have goals. We have dreams I've come to and this is where each in our audience to explore. I've come to define non -striving as finding the flow So have your ambitions your goals But don't strive only to get what you want when you want how you want it.
Maybe you're swimming upstream and it's not taking you where you need to go. Others are generosity and gratitude,
gratitude being very powerful in terms of our modern day because it gives us a segue from the distraction of negativity.
thinking, negative feelings. It can be a pause where you can say, I'm thankful for this, I'm thankful for that, I'm thankful for this breath. - So as we come up on time right now,
Peter, what's our call to action for people that have listened to this podcast on mindfulness, introducing the construct and the concepts? - To learn a little bit more.
more about what this mindfulness is, maybe take an MBSR class, maybe take a workshop on mindfulness,
read a book, and then see where it takes you, see what you notice, see what benefits you, and paying attention the way that we're talking about,
you'll notice what's different about you, about your experience with life, and it may encourage you to practice more. So that's the call to action. Learn more about this mindfulness and how in practical ways it could benefit you.
Yeah, I would give a second one, which is if you're not ready to jump in, at least dip your toe in. Go for a walk outside. Thank you. With no headphones. headphones, no distractions.
Just walk, breathe, and be. It doesn't have to be long. Five, 10 minutes, and see how you feel afterwards. Yeah. Thank you for that, Darius. Yeah. So we're going to post this on agedifferently .com,
but we'll have a love your feedback and comments as usual. We're going to conclude with a poem that Peter will be reading this episode. Have you ever had the experience of stopping,
just stopping so completely, of being in your body so completely, of being in your life so completely,
that what you knew and what you didn't know, that what had been and what was yet to come, and that what you knew and what you didn't know, the way things are right now,
they no longer held even the slightest hint of anxiety or discord that it would be a moment of complete presence beyond striving,
beyond mere acceptance, beyond the desire to, escape, flee, or fix anything,
or plunge ahead. It would be a moment of pure being, no longer in time, a moment of pure seeing,
pure feeling, a moment in which life is lost. it simply is and That is this That is this grabs you by all your senses all your memories By your very genes by all your loves and it welcomes you It welcomes you back home wonderful Peter who wrote that?
that that poem is by the founder and creator of Mindfulness based stress reduction the person who introduced mindfulness to the United States John Kabat -Sin Wonderful.
Well, thank you everyone for listening and stay tuned for our next episode. Appreciate you guys all so much Yes, we do and everyone take care be mindful of you, please. Thank you Peter