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Time Out is a podcast focused on current issues in sport leadership, performance, and health with a wide range of experts and industry leaders. This podcast is offered by the School of Sport Sciences in West Virginia University’s College of Applied Human Sciences.
NEW MINI-Series: World Cup 2026 – Expert Perspectives on the Global Game”
In this series, Dr. Gonzalo Bravo, Director of the Global Sports and Performance Center in the WVU School of Sport Sciences, talks with leading voices from across the global game exploring the inner workings, emerging challenges, and broader impact of the FIFA World Cup 2026. Please note, these interviews were recorded two months prior to the 2026 FIFA World Cup.
Gonzalo Bravo: So, hello everyone! Welcome back to the podcast of the Global Sport and Performance Center at West Virginia University. My name is Gonzalo Bravo, I'm a professor of Sport Management in the School of Sports Science and the director of the Global Sport and Performance Center at West Virginia University.
Gonzalo Bravo: Today is our last episode of our series with this podcast titled, World Cup 2026, Expert Perspectives on the Global Game.
Gonzalo Bravo: In today's conversations, we will take a close look at how soccer and large-scale sport events such as the FIFA World Cup intersect with contemporary global affairs.
Gonzalo Bravo: Soccer is the world's most global sport, and its influence extends far beyond match results and seasonal standings. Soccer also helps reinforce national identity and a sense of belonging among dedicated supporters of domestic teams.
Gonzalo Bravo: As a universal language, soccer connects people from diverse backgrounds, nationalities, and religions. In this sense, it can be seen as a powerful unifying force that brings people together, at least temporarily, while helping to soften the differences that often divide us.
Gonzalo Bravo: A fundamental principle in the governance of world soccer is the capacity of national governing bodies to self-regulate without external interference, including from governments.
Gonzalo Bravo: FIFA, the international governing body of soccer, has consistently reinforced the principle of autonomy through its regulatory framework, particularly Articles 14 and 19, which has required national soccer federations to operate independently from governmental control.
Gonzalo Bravo: When these regulations are violated, FIFA has not hesitated to impose sanctions.
Gonzalo Bravo: At the same time, while government intervention is formally discouraged, events of large scale and significance, such as the FIFA World Cup, inevitably require a degree of government involvement, particularly in areas such as infrastructure, security, and logistics.
Gonzalo Bravo: At times, this involvement can create attentions between the need for collaborations and the preservation of institutional independence.
Gonzalo Bravo: Ultimately, the intersections of soccer, government interventions, and global geopolitical affairs extend well beyond formal compliance with FIFA regulations.
Gonzalo Bravo: Given soccer's vast global reach, developments within the sport often heighten awareness of broader political
Gonzalo Bravo: geopolitical issues, sometimes even unintentionally. At the same time, soccer can act as a powerful tool of diplomacy and soft power, facilitating dialogue and strengthening relationships between countries with long-standing rivalries.
Gonzalo Bravo: Our guest today is Andres Martinez, co-director of the Great Game Lab at Arizona State University, where he also serves as a special advisor to the university presidents. Andres' work explores the global convergence of sport, media, and geopolitics.
Gonzalo Bravo: Andres is a professor of practice at the Croncade School of Journalism and Mass Communication.
Gonzalo Bravo: Previously, he served as editorial page editor of the Los Angeles Times and assistant editorial page editor at the New York Times, where he was a finalist for the Pulitzer Prize.
Gonzalo Bravo: He is the author of The Great Game, A Tale of Two Footballs, An America's Quest to Conquer Global Sport, published just recently this month.
Gonzalo Bravo: Andres holds a BA in History from Yale University, an MA in Russian history from Stanford University, and a JD from Columbia University Law School, where he was a member of the Columbia Law Review. Good afternoon, Andres. Welcome to this podcast.
Andres Martinez: Thank you. Thanks for having me, Gonzalo. This is great.
Gonzalo Bravo: It's a real pleasure to have you with us today. Thank you for joining us, and for sharing your views on the impact of this 2026 FIFA World Cup on global current affairs.
Gonzalo Bravo: To start, could you tell us a bit about your background, and what led you to explore the connections between sport and broader issues such as politics and global affairs?
Andres Martinez: Sure, thanks. I,
Andres Martinez: I grew up in Mexico. In fact, I'm actually wearing the shirt of Del Tree right now, which I realize the listeners can't necessarily see, but…
Andres Martinez: Yeah, it's funny, I… my mother was, from Dallas, Texas, and she went down to Mexico City thinking it would be a great adventure to teach the American school for a year or two, but she met my Mexican dad, and that turned into a multi-decade adventure. So I… I was fortunate to be raised in a bi…
Andres Martinez: national, bilingual household in Mexico. You know, my parents were, fortunately, very strict about having us speak English at home, because everything outside the home was in Spanish.
Andres Martinez: And I, you know, we had family in Texas, and I… I felt like I had two countries. And yet, you know, I tell the story that I come to the States, I permanently moved to the States at the age of 15,
Andres Martinez: And I'm old enough that, you know, we're talking about a time when the U.S. was, not really a participant in this global footballing community that you were describing in your intro. I mean, this is… I'm talking about the early 80s.
Andres Martinez: And I thought, you know, this, this really…
Andres Martinez: shocked me, because here I felt like I wasn't going to have any adaptation issues going to a quote-unquote foreign country, because this was my other country, and and yet, when it came to sport.
Andres Martinez: I felt like I'd been dropped on a different planet, you know, as a 15-year-old boy coming from Mexico. Where, you know, if you were a kid in Mexico back then, you were connected to…
Andres Martinez: you know, the same culture of people in Spain, Germany, Korea, Africa, I mean, you name it, right? But the U.S.
Andres Martinez: You know, had decided to kind of uncouple itself or decouple itself from the…
Andres Martinez: prevailing sport… sporting communities that were shared globally, you know, going all the way back to the late 19th century, you know, where we develop… we Americans develop our kind of homegrown sports as a way of reinforcing American identity and exceptionalism and…
Andres Martinez: And so we play, you know, our elite universities develop an American varietal of football, which is distinct from rugby, which is distinct from, you know, what was developing as a
Andres Martinez: football association or soccer. We… we have a very…
Andres Martinez: patriotic origin story for baseball, which is meant to erase any suggestion that has anything to do with, you know, cricket or rounders, and so on. So 100 years after that, I'm coming to the States, and I'm like, whoa, I thought this country was the center of the universe, and yet when it came to sport.
Andres Martinez: as we say in Spanish, not… not really. So… but of course, things have dramatically changed since then. I'm talking about the early 80s, when you couldn't… I mean, we were… we didn't have a…
Andres Martinez: domestic league back then. We were kind of in between attempts at having one on the men's side, and you know, the U.S. hadn't participated in a World Cup for decades, and I couldn't find anybody to even talk about one.
Andres Martinez: You know, the great English historian Eric Hobsbaum talks about there are two kind of universalizing agents
Andres Martinez: in the 20th century. Two forces that connect people across borders, and you alluded to this in your intro. One of them is global football, and the other one's American culture. And Hollywood certainly does that, and American music does that, but when it came to sport, you know, we were playing our own games and calling the winners of those domestic leagues
Andres Martinez: world champions, right? And to this day, our most…
Andres Martinez: popular athletes in our most followed sport, which is the NFL, they still can't compete internationally, because there's essentially no one to play against, right? Now, things have changed, not only because of the rise of soccer in the U.S. and of the U.S. within the world of soccer, but also our success at growing overseas audiences for these homegrown
Andres Martinez: once Insular Sports, you know, we just had a…
Andres Martinez: World Baseball Classic, but, you know, that wouldn't have been that possible not too long ago. We now have, you know, a world team at the NBA All-Star weekend, right? So there's a two-way street in which we're now far more engaged with the rest of the world through sport. It's a long answer, but my… the genesis of my strong interest, besides being a sports fan, but my interest in
Andres Martinez: the significance… the significant role that sport plays in how people connect to each other and to their geographies, I think, dates that… dates back to that personal experience I had, and… and I wanted to write this book to…
Andres Martinez: kind of try to explain, you know, for myself, if nothing else, the, you know, what's changed since then, and then kind of also speculate on what it means that we're now
Andres Martinez: sharing, you know, following and playing the same games as people elsewhere in the world. I mean, there's so many things that are kind of pulling us apart in this world today, and I think…
Andres Martinez: this might be a countervailing force where actually American exceptionalism or isolationism, or pick your term, is… has eroded as a result of the fact that
Andres Martinez: We're now more of a soccer nation, and that other nations have also picked up some of our sports. That's a kind of cultural connectivity that we didn't have.
Gonzalo Bravo: Well, knowing more about you really set the stage nicely for our conversation today, right? So, given the current global context marked by multiple armed conflicts, what role, if any, do you believe the 2026 World Cup can play on the world stage?
Gonzalo Bravo: Nelson Mandela once said, sport has the power to change the world.
Gonzalo Bravo: To what extent do you think this idea still resonates today, and what realistically could the 2026 FIFA World Cup contribute to fostering global peace and mutual understanding?
Andres Martinez: Yeah, that's… that's a… that's a tough one, because I… I think the ways in which sport creates that cross-border empathy and understanding
Andres Martinez: Is more of a long-term phenomenon than…
Andres Martinez: You know, overnight, governments deciding to radically change their policies as a result of a…
Andres Martinez: a great shared experience. I mean, they might…
Andres Martinez: alter the timing of… it's kind of funny, right? In the Olympic context, we have this… Notion,
Andres Martinez: of an Olympic truce. And it's… it's a little bit more than a notion, it's not quite international law, but it's somewhere in between. But this, you know, this… but even the… the notion, that concept of the Olympic truce, where you're not supposed to engage in conflict during
Andres Martinez: you know, this other major sporting event that we have. Or two weeks before, 2 weeks after, even that kind of suggests an understanding that it's kind of temporary, right, and it's time-bound. And so I… I think it would be unrealistic to assume that
Andres Martinez: you know, the FIFA World Cup.
Andres Martinez: Is going to drastically alter,
Andres Martinez: you know, international geopolitical tendencies from, you know, one month to the next, essentially. But I think…
Andres Martinez: over time, the fact that millions of Americans are sharing the same
Andres Martinez: Big event this summer with, you know, millions of people, and…
Andres Martinez: Brazil and Ukraine and, you know, pick your country, that does create, I think, more mutual understanding over time, but it might not change the minds of heads of state in that moment in terms of what they… what they want to accomplish. On the margins.
Andres Martinez: tactically, perhaps, and I… it is kind of intriguing.
Andres Martinez: to think of the North American piece of it, since we're sharing the tournament across our three North American countries at the same time.
Andres Martinez: that they need to renegotiate a trade agreement between the three that bind them together, so that might be an interesting example where it might incrementally make a difference of turning down the volume. But, you know, I think,
Andres Martinez: I think it would be unfair to place too many expectations on…
Andres Martinez: Even what's by far the greatest sporting event on the planet to alter, fundamentally, the geopolitics of the day.
Gonzalo Bravo: And that really connects with my… you read my next questions, which is now looking at the host nations, right, the United States, Mexico, and Canada. How might this tournament influence
Gonzalo Bravo: their relationships, right? Do you see the World Cup as having the potential to ease tensions or foster possible cooperations on any issues from immigration, trade, or even diplomacy?
Andres Martinez: Yeah, I… It's funny, when the…
Andres Martinez: three countries… our three neighboring North American countries came together to bid… For the tournament,
Andres Martinez: their relationship was in a very different place, right? Like, that was 2016, 2017, and…
Andres Martinez: When… if you go back and you read the…
Andres Martinez: bid that was proposed, which you can find on FIFA's website, and I encourage listeners to do that, because it's always fun to… you know, these… as we know, these…
Andres Martinez: big tournaments like a World Cup or, you know, an Olympic Games, they're not just randomly assigned to places. Countries have to apply for them.
Andres Martinez: It's kind of like applying for college, right? And you have to write all out of these documents as to why… why you should get it. And I was always very intrigued in the narrative that the North American countries were trying to
Andres Martinez: To tell them about… You know, to convey about our…
Andres Martinez: three-nation community, because the whole point of, you know, the soft power of sport when it comes to hosting big events, I mean, we just saw this in the Winter Olympics in Milan, like, the host is trying to tell a story about itself to the world. It has a spotlight.
Andres Martinez: And… You know, a lot of…
Andres Martinez: people who have been very enthusiastic about the idea of a converging or, you know, integrating North American bloc. I mean, some of that rhetoric is sort of less in favor today than it was, I don't know, maybe 15 years ago, in all three countries, frankly. And,
Andres Martinez: And so, even when the bid was submitted, it was not the height of…
Andres Martinez: enthusiasm for that idea, and so I… so it's kind of very measured language about, you know, who exactly is hosting this, and… and what are we saying about the… so it's called the United Bid, and it's… there's an emphasis on how democratic and how tolerant and how open these societies are.
Andres Martinez: As opposed to going too far and saying, like, you know, this is one community. And the dynamics were interesting, because…
Andres Martinez: We were coming off of…
Andres Martinez: the World Cup having been awarded to Russia and Qatar, and so reading between the lines, a lot of the languages, we are not Russia, we are not Qatar.
Andres Martinez: And also, you know, there was a lot of anxiety and apprehension going into Russia and Qatar 2018-2022 among people who felt like, you know, there might be some pretty poignant controversies associated to both of these hosts.
Andres Martinez: And after that, we can all exhale and relax, because the World Cup's going to, you know…
Andres Martinez: North America, what could go wrong? And now, there are… the times have changed, and people also in the world might have some apprehensions about things going on, here. So it's kind of interesting to see the arc of, like, how things have changed. I mean, President Trump, I think last winter at some point.
Andres Martinez: was asked about this, and he said, you know, we're… we got some, friction and some tensions with our neighbors, and… and that's good for the World Cup. I mean, in his sort of…
Andres Martinez: showman entertainment mind, he was like, you know, that adds to the spice, right, and to the drama of it. But, you know, initially, when the three countries bid together.
Andres Martinez: you know, that was clearly not the notion. But I, I think…
Andres Martinez: I think it will… I do think it will help.
Andres Martinez: and again, it's hard to measure, and I don't want to overstate it, but I think sharing this tournament will be one of the positives in the, sort of, on the balance sheet of how the three North American countries are getting along. It's, you know, President Scheinbaum in Mexico.
Andres Martinez: had not done much traveling and had not met Donald Trump when she first entered office in more than her first year, and the…
Andres Martinez: occasion, the first occasion that brought them together, you know, they'd had phone calls, but she went to Washington for the FIFA World Cup draw. So, again, the power of this tournament is such that, you know,
Andres Martinez: Johnny Infantino can bring together,
Andres Martinez: people who might not otherwise, you know, meet. So when they had the woke up draw in Washington, you know, the three heads of state were there with the picking out the balls and stuff, and so that was kind of a funny moment.
Gonzalo Bravo: So, basically, my next question is actually kind of like what you're mentioning now, but how do you interpret the World Cup as a platform for soft power competitions among nations, right?
Gonzalo Bravo: It will help.
Gonzalo Bravo: In the current state of the relationships of not just the neighboring countries, the host countries, but in general.
Andres Martinez: Absolutely. I mean, I think… I think expecting the World Cup to, change…
Andres Martinez: geopolitical conflicts and tensions that you might read about on the front page of a newspaper, if you were still reading a physical newspaper.
Andres Martinez: that feels like a bit of a stretch, but when we talk about soft power and accumulation of soft power, that connects a little bit more to what I was suggesting in terms of, sort of.
Andres Martinez: things that accrue over a longer period of time across all populations. And so I do think that,
Andres Martinez: they're… and…
Andres Martinez: when I teach courses on this, I look at the soft power question from the lens of… that comes from hosting.
Andres Martinez: These major temple, sporting events, you know, so Qatar would be a great case study as to why
Andres Martinez: they were, you know, they went to extraordinary lengths, if we can put it that way, to make sure the World Cup came to Qatar. Like,
Andres Martinez: But every place, every country, every city that hosts an Olympics, every country that hosts a World Cup is trying to tell the world something about it, and… and accumulate more South Power. But the second way is through competition, right? And so I think there are two ways
Andres Martinez: And so there will be many countries that will gain tremendously from this
Andres Martinez: Platform of the most watched, most, you know, shared…
Andres Martinez: month-long event this summer. And we don't know who all those countries are, because some of them will be perhaps a surprising, very likable underdog nation that makes it to the semifinals, right? Like,
Andres Martinez: when I was young, there were a couple World Cups where Cameroon kind of became the… the sort of everyone's second team, right? And we, you know, when you follow sport, we all relate to these… these moments, and it's… they're often defined by intangibles, right? It's the…
Andres Martinez: charisma of certain players, maybe the style of play, the… we're doing… at my university, we're doing an event soon with the ambassador of Croatia. Croatia's an amazing
Andres Martinez: Example of a country that has branded itself
Andres Martinez: through sport. You know, relatively young.
Andres Martinez: country, coming out of the conflicts in the Balkans and the breakup of Yugoslavia. I mean, they…
Andres Martinez: found themselves, surprisingly, playing in an Olympic final.
Andres Martinez: in Barcelona against the fabled Dream Team, right? And that was… and I think the country was one or two years old, and most people elsewhere in the world were like, wait, who's the Dream Team player? You know, and since then, we've had so many great Croatians in the NBA. But then in… more importantly, when it comes to this platform, I mean, Croatia, a nation with a population comparable, perhaps.
Andres Martinez: to Metro Phoenix, where I'm…
Andres Martinez: talking to you from, you know, they played in a World Cup final against France in 2018, and they made it to a semi-final, and you've got Luka Modric, and so, boy, the soft power that comes from… from that. A country like Brazil earlier became…
Andres Martinez: Known first, you know, around the world, not just for winning at the beautiful game, but for playing in that incredibly distinctive.
Andres Martinez: beautiful style, and I think for generations after that Pele, you know, generation of, that won three World Cups,
Andres Martinez: the last one in Mexico City in 1970. I mean, around the world, if you told somebody, what do you know about Brazil, it was just that flamboyant.
Andres Martinez: sort of joyous, style of playing football, right? And I think the hosts also stand a lot to gain. I mean, if…
Andres Martinez: if you… if people elsewhere in the world right now are concerned about, you know, how welcoming or hospitable is the United States these days, because they've heard or read things, you know,
Andres Martinez: this is an opportunity for those who do come, I'm sure.
Andres Martinez: Most of them are gonna have a great experience, and they're gonna, you know.
Andres Martinez: people will be very nice to them, and they'll go home, and they'll say, you know what, it was a reminder that whatever's happening politically, like, yeah, the U.S. is a great place to visit, and Americans, and similarly with Canada and Mexico. So those are two different ways, I think, that the soft power
Andres Martinez: Plays out and can be accumulated, like, through hosting versus, in the competition itself, right?
Gonzalo Bravo: Right.
Gonzalo Bravo: So, staying with that idea of influence and global perceptions, that brings us to the role of governing bodies.
Gonzalo Bravo: FIFA often emphasizes political neutrality, yet it operates within highly political context. In your view, should FIFA be considered a geopolitical actor? Why or why not?
Andres Martinez: I mean, I think FIFA is… A hugely important political… actor.
Andres Martinez: And I understand that… that seems contradictory with its…
Andres Martinez: insistence that national… it's National Federation members, which are 211 or 14,
Andres Martinez: North or… north of 200,
Andres Martinez: you know, that they be separate from the politics of their countries. I think all of that is a bit unrealistic. We all… I mean, maybe we want to believe that you could separate.
Andres Martinez: politics from sport, although when people say that, it tends to be a political statement in itself, depending on the context. But… but I think, realistically, that is not possible, because…
Andres Martinez: this sport is so important. The same reason that, you know, your favorite brand of beer, or your favorite automaker, or your bank wants to be associated with sport, but this sport in particular, and sponsor this sport.
Andres Martinez: to derive
Andres Martinez: you know, to enhance their brand, i.e. their soft power, it's the same kind of motivations as to why nation-states, political movements, leaders also want to be associ… I mean, we have this tradition, right, of the winning teams in all sports going to the White House, and…
Andres Martinez: You know, that's just an example of, like, the political leaders want to bask in
Andres Martinez: the positive emotions that people feel towards sport, and sort of try to appropriate them. And when you look at FIFA, it is…
Andres Martinez: You know, if you… if you and I, Gonzalo, want to start a new republic tomorrow, which I think is a good idea, we probably should,
Andres Martinez: how do we know that we're being successful? What… how do we…
Andres Martinez: you know, how do we know that we've succeeded, and that it's not just you and me and some delusion, and that people are taking our country seriously? You know, first, it's about getting recognition from other countries, right? That's kind of a bilateral thing, so maybe if we work hard at it, you know, in a year from now, maybe
Andres Martinez: three countries with questionable character will have recognized our countries. But being serious, like, the three main, sort of, almost like accrediting bodies, which is an odd way to put it, but the three arenas, organizations that you want to have
Andres Martinez: recognize you as a member, because it shows that you are a legitimate country. Are the United Nations?
Andres Martinez: And then it's FIFA and the IOC. I mean, two of them have to do with sport, right? Now, the membership of the… across those three don't all line up, you know, there's all sorts of historical…
Andres Martinez: you know, one of the things I talk about in my book is how
Andres Martinez: you know, sport can help you sort out geography, because I was very confused as a kid when, you know, I thought I knew what the English flag was, but when I watched England in the World Cup, there was a different flag, and my dad had to explain that, like, well, you're thinking of the British
Andres Martinez: Union Jack, and this is the Cross of St. George, which is the flag of England, and because in the FIFA
Andres Martinez: world, you know, England competes against Scotland and Wales because of the history of the game, but if you're watching the Olympics, it's Team Great Britain, and they play together, and so, you know, not all the… but my point is,
Andres Martinez: the power of FIFA
Andres Martinez: because of the soft power of the sport, and also just its significance as a political force, but also, you know, like, another theme in the great game is how sport became the most important form of media, and that is another reason everybody wants to be associated with it.
Andres Martinez: So yes, I think FIFA is a formidable political actor. And one… quickly, one other thing I would say related to that is.
Andres Martinez: You know, sometimes we can be… we can sort of roll our eyes at some of the things that…
Andres Martinez: quote-unquote FIFA does, and I put it in quotes because sometimes we talk about FIFA and its leader, current leader, Gianni Infantino, or previous leaders in other times, as if they were some kind of rogue…
Andres Martinez: or an entity completely unto itself that just did very… acted in very strange ways and seemed corrupt, or whatever, but I will say, I think FIFA is… it's a very representative body, and we… that… it's kind of easier if we just sort of, like…
Andres Martinez: write them off as these, you know, technocratic, out-of-touch bureaucrats. I mean, they put on a tournament that we all love, so there's that too. But, you know, you can sort of mock some of the things FIFA does, but it is very responsive to those members. I mean, FIFA is a body where
Andres Martinez: every member gets one vote. And John Infantino, Sepp Blatter, his predecessor, and Joel Avalanche, his predecessor, figured out a way… it's very democratic. They… they are very good at counting votes.
Andres Martinez: And having their faction stay in power, and knowing, you know, it's kind of like…
Andres Martinez: Yeah, it's very representative democracy in the sense that they distribute the goods, right? And if they didn't, they wouldn't still,
Andres Martinez: be there. And there's not… it's more democratic and representative, say, than the United Nations, because there's no… nothing like a Security Council to apply the brakes, right? And one of the criticisms of FIFA…
Andres Martinez: in some quarters, it is too representative. You know, I think…
Andres Martinez: in terms of members having one vote, like, why do some small nations in the Caribbean
Andres Martinez: get the same say as Germany, or Japan, or China. You know, that's a fun debate to be had. But, you know, a lot of my students, and I mean, a lot of us who just feel like we love sport, we think sport should transcend some of the ickiness of geopolitics.
Andres Martinez: We wish it was pure.
Andres Martinez: But, you know, I just… sadly, that's not very realistic in a world where
Andres Martinez: if, you know, if you look across the 200-plus nations that are in FIFA, you know, standards of governance and rule of law, you know, adherence to the rule of law and democratic norms are…
Andres Martinez: not great in many of them, right? That's the world we live in, and so it's not shocking that
Andres Martinez: some of FIFA's decision-making is going to reflect, kind of, that lowest common denominator. And it's an… you get into uncomfortable conversations, because what's the alternative? We're going to have some incredibly stringent criteria.
Andres Martinez: for who can belong and who can make these decisions in sports, so that we just have, I don't know, Scandinavian countries in these sporting organizations. That's also… that leaves you in a different, uncomfortable…
Andres Martinez: place. So, yeah, it's something I wrestle with.
Gonzalo Bravo: into the sporting sites, okay, what are your expectations for the tournament?
Gonzalo Bravo: How do you assess the prospect of the U.S.
Gonzalo Bravo: and Mexican national team. You have a stake in both, right?
Andres Martinez: Whoa.
Gonzalo Bravo: who will… be supporting.
Andres Martinez: Yeah, now you're getting into the important stuff. I, I always root for Mexico. I mean, I'm very American in many ways, and very Mexican in many ways, and there are many, perhaps, ways in which I'm more American than Mexican, but when it comes to football, I still, you know, root for Mexico. It's kind of where I started, and
Andres Martinez: I think… it's been fascinating to watch that rivalry evolve, right? Because when I was a kid, again, like, the U.S. wasn't really a player in the sport, and Mexico…
Andres Martinez: felt like, if nothing else, we can beat up on the gringos when it comes to our sport, and now they're so… it's such a heated rivalry. So I'd be rooting for Mexico, but I still… I want the U.S. to do well. I want the men, over time to sort of close the gap with U.S. women's national team. I think it's good for the sport.
Andres Martinez: Both teams have very low expectations going into the tournament. I suspect the US will surprise people and make it to the quarterfinals, and I think that'll be a great story.
Andres Martinez: I'm kind of optimistic, but…
Andres Martinez: But that is… that is being very optimistic, because we haven't quite seen signs of it all coming together in the run-up, but I think when the tournament comes, I mean, I think home field advantage is a significant factor in World Cups, and I also just think the… the talent is there, and I think Pochettino will…
Andres Martinez: Well, time, it's, you know, all coming together at the right time, so… That's my prediction.
Gonzalo Bravo: So finally, what kind of legacy do you anticipate from the 2026 World Cup, particularly in terms of the growth and popularity of soccer in the United States?
Andres Martinez: I think it's another boost to what's been… this…
Andres Martinez: very steady growth of the sport since those days when I first came to the States when I was 15, and… and I was shocked to find that there wasn't, much…
Andres Martinez: in the way of, soccer in the U.S. You know, the great…
Andres Martinez: protagonist and connecting the U.S. to the football world.
Andres Martinez: Global football. I think we're immigrants.
Andres Martinez: And girls and women who took up the sport post the passage of Title IX, and that's a great story of unintended consequences, because no one in FIFA headquarters would have thought, the way to get the Americans…
Andres Martinez: Into this is through the women's game, because back then, they didn't think women should play soccer, right?
Andres Martinez: But, you know, through that amazing ride of the U.S. women in the 90s really naturalized the sport American. And then there's the factor of multinational companies that need it.
Andres Martinez: a global sport to brand themselves with, whether we're talking about Coca-Cola, or Electronic Arts, or… so just in the age of globalization, even American multinationals couldn't just rely on our homegrown sports for their marketing. I think… so I think all those forces started… launched this process of,
Andres Martinez: recoupling with the rest of the world through sport, that's not reversible. I mean, I have some friends who say, well, if the U.S. men don't do well this summer, that's gonna be a disaster. It's gonna set all this back. I don't think so. I mean, I think it'll help if they do well. But, you know, I… when you look…
Andres Martinez: structurally, at all of the things happening, you know, whether it's the fact that a majority of clubs in the English Premier League are now U.S.-owned, those things, I think, over time, are gonna…
Andres Martinez: are gonna be indicative of how this is not reversible, right? Like, the… the… cross…
Andres Martinez: sport investment in these big conglomerates that now own, you know, baseball teams in the US and European soccer teams, like, you're not gonna unwind that because of one World Cup. But I think it'll be an interesting
Andres Martinez: Moment to gauge the extent to which.
Andres Martinez: Soccer has become part of what,
Andres Martinez: I think he's a friend of both of ours, Professor Markovitz, Andy Markovitz, who wrote a great book called Offside American Exceptionalism Soccer. He describes when sports reach a status of hegemonic culture.
Andres Martinez: in other words, there's certain sports that we're kind of all expected to follow as part of our sort of cultural literacy, and so not just the hardcore fans of those sports, right? And we… he argues that we have a pretty crowded
Andres Martinez: you know, space in the U.S, you know, we have 3 or maybe four. He likes to include hockey, but I think that might be a geographic bias, but clearly we have the big three, right? Basketball, baseball, and American football. And so, it's always this interesting debate as to, you know, at one point is soccer gonna…
Andres Martinez: be able to… can we say that soccer has joined that? It's like half… maybe that sport is a half step behind. I mean, more people play soccer than American football now in the U.S, and that's… that's been a huge development, but that doesn't necessarily translate into following the sport in the same way we follow the NFL. So I think this World Cup will be an interesting
Andres Martinez: moment to take stock, and I'm going to be curious to see how much is this, like, the conversation beyond, like, the stadiums and the people watching games on TV. So, but I do expect it to be a significant boost in this, evolving.
Andres Martinez: story of America and the rest of the world coming closer and closer together through this sport.
Gonzalo Bravo: That's a great note to end on, and it really highlights the long-term significance of the FIFA World Cup, right? So, if we come to the end of our conversations.
Gonzalo Bravo: We'd like to thank our guest, Andres Martinez, co-director of The Great Game Lab at Arizona State University, and a special advisor to the University of Presidents at SAU. Also, author of the book, The Great Game, a tale of Two Footballs and America's Quest to Conquer Global Sport.
Gonzalo Bravo: Andres, we truly appreciate you sharing your insights on the intersections of sport and geopolitics.
Gonzalo Bravo: We wish you continued success in your work. This concludes our podcast, FIFA World Cup 2026, Expert Perspectives on the Global Game, presented by the Global Sport and Performance Center at West Virginia University. Thank you for listening.
Andres Martinez: Thank you.
Gonzalo Bravo: Let me just… Stop the recording here, okay.
Gonzalo Bravo: Stop recording.
Gonzalo Bravo: Perfect.