Mend Mother: Creating Sustainability through Education, Repair, and Recirculation

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Creators and Guests

Host

Sophs Magnanini

Public Affairs Director (2025-2026)

What is Oak City Move?

A radio program and podcast from WKNC 88.1 FM HD-1/HD-2 celebrating those who enact positive changes in the Raleigh community.

00:00
Sophs Magnanini
Oak City Move is a podcast on WKNC's 88.1 FM HD 1 Raleigh where we highlight people and organizations creating positive change in the Triangle and beyond. Oak City Move can be heard on air Every Monday on 88.1 FM HD1 Raleigh or online at wknc.org to listen to episodes and more, go to our blog at blog.wknc.org or follow us on SoundCloud at wknc881. Hello, 88.1 WKNC Raleigh. The song you just heard was Sweaty linen by Surf Ninja 3. I'm Sophia Magnanini, your host and you're listening to Oak City Move. Today we're joined by a very special guest, Maddie Lyon, business owner of Mend Mother, a Raleigh based small business focusing on textile sustainability through accessible education, repair and recirculation services. First off, I just want to thank you so much for taking the time to join me. It's such a pleasure to have you here.

00:53
Sophs Magnanini
And for listeners who aren't too familiar with mothered mend, would you want to first talk or start by kind of talking a little bit about what Mother mend or mend Mother is and what inspired you to work on it and create it?

01:09
Maddy Lyon
Yeah, so I've worked in fashion and textiles. I went to college for fashion design and have been working in the industry since then. I mean, my first job out of college was at a men's suiting tailor. So I was doing alterations and really learning how to do them the right way and then like kind of worked that job for nine months and then ended up working as a. Or I mean, I my motivation was to be a designer, so I worked as a women's apparel designer for like five years. And I feel like when you know how to sew, you just friends, family, people are always like, oh my God, you know how to sew. Can you fix this for me? Can you alter the stress for me? I'm going to a wedding. Can you do this?

01:51
Maddy Lyon
And I feel like it used to really irritate me because I'd be like, I can't do that. I don't want to do that. Blah blah. But then after a while when enough people ask you're like, wow, maybe I can actually help people out and start obliging them. And like during COVID I kind of started fixing a lot of things in my own wardrobe. And then as things started to open up a bit more, my friend, my roommate and I started having like sewing parties where we had everyone bring an item and we would help them learn how to fix it. So I feel like since, like, 2021, I've kind of been just, like, exploring how to extend people's clothing so they don't have. Feel like they have to throw them away. And sustainability is a really strong interest of mine.

02:35
Maddy Lyon
Just, like, I'm a big outdoors person, so I feel like learning doing repairs and alterations is a really sort of immediate way to extend the use of something and sort of a more localized sustainability effort than maybe like, working at a company that's making a sustainable product. So that's kind of a long answer, but, yeah, I just. I love working with my hands, and I feel like you start working as a fashion designer and you spend a lot of time on the computer, and that. That kind of was a little bit of a reckoning, and I really wanted to find my way back to, like, being able to work with my hands and sew things.

03:14
Sophs Magnanini
So, yeah, no, that's awesome. Especially, like, you're saying kind of sewing and kind of giving back is so important, and I feel like it's kind of used or utilized a little less than it used to be, especially in, like, the state that we're in where fast fashion is such a prevalent thing in our society. And it's just a lot of people kind of have that mentality now where it's like, oh, this is broken. I'll just get a new one. Instead of actually thinking about, wait, I could fix this and make it something else that's kind of like my own, which is really cool. That's what you're kind of helping and,.

03:53
Maddy Lyon
Like, something to add to, like, my previous experience, I worked at, like, as a designer at Kohl's and then as a, like, contract designer for Target. So, like, my first few jobs out of college were very much in, you know, mass market fast fashion. And it's. It's really staggering to see how much those companies produce when you work on the inside. And I feel like that was really something that made me kind of scratch my head a little bit and be like, is this really, like, something I want to be partaking in as a, like, industry professional? So it's. It really got my gears going when I was working in those jobs.

04:30
Maddy Lyon
Like, there's got to be something else out there that I can be doing that isn't this especially, like, sort of the traditional, like, climbing the ladder in the fashion industry sort of route? I just. Yeah, I didn't really identify with it.

04:43
Sophs Magnanini
After a while, but, no, that's even more like awesome because you've kind of seen it like you're saying firsthand and instead of kind of, you chose to go another way with it and kind of go back and give back to the communities also with helping to teach them how to also help repair. So then you're kind of creating this web of sustainability, which is really awesome. And it's also just really cool because I feel that it's some. That's something that should be more accessible to people like learning like these certain classes and learning how to repair, reutilize their fabrics, that stuff. Because it is so upsetting when you see how many, like how much textiles goes to landfills and stuff. And it's something that could be lowered by things like what you're doing.

05:40
Maddy Lyon
Mm, yeah, it's simple. It's. It's just takes like education and awareness I think is a really big part of that behavioral change.

05:51
Sophs Magnanini
This is kind of a switch up question, but I love the name Mend Mother and I kind of wanted to ask you where you came up with it.

06:00
Maddy Lyon
Yeah, it's kind of. So I. So when I was a grad student at State, I was kind of doing it as a side hustle and was just calling it like Mending by Maddie. And ironically like my best friend from college, her name is also Maddie. And at the time we had lived together when I lived in la and then I moved to Raleigh to go to school and she was still living out there. And at the time she was helping me a lot with like my graphics and some of the just sort of like marketing and like visual sort of identity of what I was doing.

06:33
Maddy Lyon
And were trying to come up with a name for it that had two M's because were both Maddie and I had like kind of just been wanting to call it Mend or like mend period or just like we did a lot of iterations. And she was like, I think I honestly like, she kind of came up with it. She was like, I think you should call it Mend Mother because it's like Mend Mother Earth, but it's also kind of vague like who is Mother? And I was like, you know what, that's good enough for now. So I kind of just started using that name and I have, I've just stuck with it. I think it's. It sounds nice and it kind of included both of us in it at the time.

07:12
Maddy Lyon
She's not really helping me out anymore, but I liked keeping it and I think people like the Name. So yeah, it kind of just worked out. Worked itself out.

07:21
Sophs Magnanini
No, that's awesome. Especially like, yeah, the backstory behind it and it like holds, it's a, like holds a place in your heart. Especially mend Mother. It's like got so many different meanings like you were saying, like you could think about in so many different ways. So it's so. I really love that name.

07:38
Maddy Lyon
Had so many people ask me if I have kids and I'm like, no, I don't. Maybe one day.

07:47
Sophs Magnanini
My next question was what challenges have you faced? Like, well, I know it's hard to kind of create your own business and become an entrepreneur, but what challenges did you face while turning your passion into a business?

08:03
Maddy Lyon
Yeah, I mean that's kind of like the question for small businesses. There's so many aspects that are really challenging but like really fulfilling. I think I, I had a job that I quit to do Mend Mother full time. And I think like the biggest transition is just, you know, not having like that bi weekly paycheck that you can depend on and really having to turning like the passion that you love into like a monetary thing. It really changes how you work on things and how you think about it because on a daily basis I am sewing and like dedicated to doing the craft. But I think about money a lot just because that's how our world is set up. So I think like the financial aspect of it can be really challenging.

08:54
Maddy Lyon
And I think I started the business with like not a ton of capital or money, I don't know, whatever you want to call it. I feel like it like, I feel like in like startup culture they call it capital. Yeah, it's just money. I. The challenge with that is just like getting up to the point where you can get consistent income and we're still making our way there. It takes a while to get the consistency down. I think also just being your own boss and time management is a huge challenge. I'm like super adhd, which is probably like why I've sort of gravitated towards being an entrepreneur because you get to do a lot of different things and a lot of problem solving. But one of the biggest challenges of being an ADHD individual is like time management and that, like executive functioning.

09:47
Maddy Lyon
So I mean I have a ton of support in my life which has made the journey a lot easier. Like my husband is, you know, he has a steady job. So when things aren't, you know, when I have a bad month or there's like something that I'm going to be Late on paying. I do have like somebody who's backing me up and like emotionally, financially, just sort of like there in an emergency. I like I'm proud to say that we've like been able to like really like the first year we broke even, the second year we didn't, we broke even again. So it's pretty awesome to not be like losing money on the business out the Kate.

10:30
Maddy Lyon
But yeah, I mean just like being your own boss is really tough and it's really fun though and there's a lot of flexibility in it and I think just like the challenge of being like all also being a small business owner can be like super isolating which has changed now that I've got a few part time employees. But yeah, I would say those are the biggest challenges. We live in a money driven society. So I wish I could do it for free.

10:57
Sophs Magnanini
And no, that's so true. But it's so awesome how even though with all the challenges you've been able to create this thing and make it grow even more and it is, I know it's always hard, especially like you were saying when it's like something that you love to do more is just like a hobby and stuff and then turning that into something where it's like you're monetizing it. But I feel like you are doing such an amazing job at that where it's also, it's a lot of helping give, giving back to the community as well and it's just really awesome. And I love that you're able to like where you are now. You're starting to get more and more which is really awesome.

11:37
Maddy Lyon
We're getting there. I feel like what's cool and interest has been interesting is sort of re like people learning about how much labor goes into sewing clothes is helping them understand like why their clothes shouldn't be so cheap and sort of like from on my end like I'm super educated and like have a ton of experience. So like my services aren't necessarily inexpensive. But like trying to sort of educate people on why they shouldn't be inexpensive has been like a really interesting part of it as well.

12:11
Sophs Magnanini
That kind of shifts to my next question. I was going to ask you. Why do you think our culture and like us as a society has shifted more away from repairing clothing and more towards replacing it?

12:25
Maddy Lyon
Well, I think the sort of invention and promotion of like cheaper fibers like polyester play a really big role in that because it's a, like a resource that can be Produced a lot more cheaply than some of the more natural fibers. So that's like, one. I think there's a lot of factors that go into it sort of on a. Like, a policy level, like NAFTA trade agreements in the 90s, and like, all of the production that was in the US Kind of moving outside of the US and kind of making it less visible to the general public in our country. Like, we don't see that labor, really. So it makes it a little bit more. It makes it more possible for companies to kind of pay people less.

13:18
Maddy Lyon
Because, I don't know, I. I'm trying to think of a more, like, succinct way to say that. I just think, like, the out. The outsourcing of labor to companies that have much lower standards for pay and lower work standards has really changed the industry. I think if we had a more booming local textile production industry, you know, like, the cost of living here is much higher, so people would, like, would want to be making a certain amount of money. And whereas in, you know, india and Bangladesh and China and South America, there some people are getting paid, like, literally pennies a day to, like, create the beautiful garments that wear every day. And I think over the last, like. I mean, obviously for like, people my age and your age, it's kind of just like, always been this way.

14:08
Maddy Lyon
Like, we've always had access to really inexpensive clothing. So, like, you know, we hear our parents being like, oh, my God, in my day, I had, like, a jacket and three pairs of shoes, and it's like, that stuff was really expensive, and that's why they valued and repaired their stuff. But the sort of, like, planned obsolescence and sort of mental. The mentality of, like, well, why would I spend money repairing it when I can just buy something for the same price or cheaper is a really hard, like, psychological thing to kind of, like, unlearn. So I think that's a really big part of it is just they make shit so cheap now. I mean, it's hard to compete, and it's hard to convince people that they should pay more without, like, making them feel really guilty about buying cheap things.

15:02
Maddy Lyon
Because I think at the end of the day also, like, affordability is, like, such a big conversation now and kind of has always been. But, like, especially now, it's really hard to, like, tell someone they should go spend, you know, three times more on a pair of pants when they're feeling, like, insecure in their income. Like, that's just a really hard kind of conversation to, like, have with people. Because it's. Yeah. It's a whole reframing. I don't know.

15:29
Sophs Magnanini
Yeah, no, yeah. I think I feel like you explained that really well. Because especially there is such a nuance when it comes into it where. Especially like with affordability, like you were saying. But it is also something where like this generation has. Yeah, like you were saying, has only really ever known this. And so unlearning it is a little bit harder.

15:51
Maddy Lyon
I grew up. I grew up on Forever 21 exact same. Like that's where I was like shopping in high school and middle school and I hadn't, you know, you have no idea, like, what those purchase decisions actually mean for the people who are making your clothes. I actually just saw. I love boosters.

16:08
Sophs Magnanini
Oh my gosh.

16:09
Maddy Lyon
I don't know if you've seen it. I Need to Watch was probably one of the like best sort of like pop culture representations I've seen of like connecting sort of the end of the fashion chain to the beginning of it. And I just. They did a really good job of like highlighting like what a garment. Garment workers life can look like. Sorry, I literally just burped. But yeah, no, it was a great movie and I would like highly recommend anyone who's kind of like, wants to see a good movie but is also curious about sort of the ridiculousness of the fashion industry. It was a good watch. Yeah.

16:46
Sophs Magnanini
But no, yeah, I have been. I need to go watch that movie like asap. But no, that is such a good point too because it's. It's something that a lot of times people don't really think about it unless they are like in these industries or they know kind of what. Or they're more into like the fashion and that type of stuff. So it is harder to kind of make it more like universally known like the practices that go into it and what we're getting out of it and then what, like the workers who are actually making the clothes get out of it. So it's just a whole nother, like, sidebar. But I feel like it's something that a lot of people should be thinking about like whenever they go and buy their clothes.

17:34
Sophs Magnanini
Changing to our next kind of topic, Men Mother focuses on education, repair and recirculation. Can you kind of explain what each of those pillars means in practice?

17:47
Maddy Lyon
Yeah. So sort of in terms of a business structure, I would say repair and alterations are kind of the bedrock of the business. That's kind of the day to day stuff that I'm working on and that's kind of the most consistent thing that we do. And that would. That's probably the biggest of the three pillars. And then education has kind of just been baked into it. I started doing workshops even before I started doing Men Mother full time. And I feel like that's kind of in my way to make repair and alteration more accessible, like cost wise. Because you can come and teach. You can come to a class and learn some of the skills that you would like, pay us to do for you, and then you can take them home and use them forever. And I think that's been.

18:37
Maddy Lyon
I absolutely love teaching. I think it's a great way to like one. I'm not from Raleigh, so like, I've taught a lot of classes and I've met so many people kind of. I think like the social aspect of my business is such an important part of it because there's a lot of education that comes with like, kind of previous, like what were just talking about with your previous question. Like, there's a lot of education that comes with convincing people like, where to spend their money and like how to think about purchasing and consumption. So the classes are just like, really fulfilling for me. And I feel like I get to have really great conversations with people. And then it's also sort of a like unintentional marketing tool because I get to meet people who wouldn't necessarily know about us otherwise.

19:27
Maddy Lyon
And then the recirculation piece is probably like the part that we kind of do a little bit more sporadically. So I, I love doing clothing swaps and I've hosted them the last two years in a row. I kind of like every march want to do like a really big clothing swap as a way to kind of show people one other option to like recirculate your clothes locally. And it's also a great way for us to kind of capture material to use in future projects. So I have. I did this when I was living in LA too. Like, you basically just like the. I feel like the idea of a clothing swap has become a lot more popular over the last five years, so six years.

20:11
Maddy Lyon
And it's a really awesome way to like, engage with your friends, engage with your community, but also just like in really ensure that the clothes that you're collecting and then recirculating to community members are staying localized. Because donating clothes to larger nonprofits or sort of just like charity shops is a great way to get rid of your clothes. I would never say, like, choose that over like, don't throw your clothes away Take them to a charity shop if that's kind of your last option. But there's not always a guarantee that stuff is going to end up on the floor. There's not always a guarantee it's not going to be like shipped off to another country to be redistributed or like end up in their environment.

20:54
Maddy Lyon
So I think the recirculation piece just kind of plays into like the reduce, reuse, recycle model of like, I want to teach people first to reduce and then to repair and reuse. And then as a last option, like how can you recycle and recirculate the things that you truly don't want anymore? So yeah, that's. I love the like three R's. I feel like those are kind of like what make up the three pillars of my business. And yeah,.

21:24
Sophs Magnanini
No, I love that especially the clothing swap is always such like a great idea because I feel like even though like you're saying it's something that has become more popular in the last couple of years, not a lot of people really practice it with like a bigger group of people. Yeah, even, I mean even just doing clothing swaps to your friends is like amazing and helps keep it local. But like you're saying when they have a place that they know that other people from the community are going to be there during these clothing swaps, it just helps build. I'm trying to think of the word, but helps just helps build the community as well as helps let people know about Mend, Mother and educate them. Like you're saying on kind of the sustainability aspect.

22:10
Maddy Lyon
Yeah, like I don't really love like traditional marketing. Like I don't do any like paid marketing on Google or Instagram really. I love like doing in person stuff. So doing the pop ups and clothing swaps is just a really great way to kind of like spread the gospel of what I'm doing, so to speak. But it's also just like so cool to like donate your stuff to a clothing swap and then like be out to lunch somewhere and be like, oh my God, that girl is wearing my top that I donated.

22:38
Maddy Lyon
And now I'm gonna go say hi to her and like learn her name and then I'm gonna see her around town and maybe this is someone that I'll become friends with or I don't know, it's just kind of like awesome to kind of like tug that thread and see where it goes.

22:50
Sophs Magnanini
No, exactly. Yeah, yeah, it's like, yeah, creating a bunch of invisible strings between People as well as kind of tying it all back to Mend. Mother and the mission that you guys have with sustainability.

23:07
Maddy Lyon
Yeah. And like, ultimately, one of my, like, I just want to, like, respect the garments that these people put so much effort into making and make, like, no money. Like, we need to, like, respect the craft that goes into it. And like, prolonging the life cycle is just one way of doing that.

23:24
Sophs Magnanini
No, exactly. Because, yeah, like were saying kind of in the beginning, where a lot of people, like, become almost desensitized to, like, the fast fashion and how little these people are being, are paid to create such beautiful pieces that it's like if someone here, if anyone was like, if I was paid to do that, I would be like, wait, I don't think I could even do this if I was, like, being paid. Hella.

23:52
Maddy Lyon
Yeah, exactly. No, it's crazy. You have like, your favorite pair of jeans ever, and, like, you wear them every single day and you just have no idea, like, how much blood, sweat and tears went into making them.

24:06
Sophs Magnanini
Yeah, exactly. Kind of shifting to my next thing I know we're talking a little bit more about community. How have you seen the Raleigh community respond to Mother since you've kind of launched it?

24:20
Maddy Lyon
I mean, I think, like, really well. I, I feel like people, they love it. The people that I've, like, interfaced with and have, like, are my customers and have come to events, like, really love it. And it's really cool to see people be like, oh, my God, I didn't even know that this existed anymore. And like, I used to have a tailor, and then she retired and I haven't known where to take my stuff. And it's really wholesome. It's really nice. I, I. Raleigh's a great place to like, be a part of the community because it's so small and there's so many, like, mutual connections around town. So I, I mean, I, I feel like the community has responded well to it. I've been encouraged to keep going. So, yeah, I don't know. It's. It's been good so far. I like it.

25:08
Maddy Lyon
I like people's energy. I think that there's also, like, a real appetite for systems sustainability and, like, people are curious about it. So.

25:18
Sophs Magnanini
I know as I've, because I've interviewed a bunch of, like, local Raleigh entrepreneurs, and I feel like the common theme between all of them is sustainability. And it's so nice to see that this, like, new wave of entrepreneurs, local businesses in Raleigh, have these goals that are kind of like Aimed on helping Raleigh grow and their community grow together, but in a sustainable, friendly way.

25:46
Maddy Lyon
Yeah. Which I think, like, we all really have, like, an appetite for community. I don't know, it's like you. We go like when there's floods and there's heat, like, there's just a lot of, like, bad stuff going on in the world and you want to have, like a strong local community to be a part of. So I think, like, Raleigh goes hard for its small businesses. I will say that, like, I feel like people really turn out for small businesses in Raleigh, which is awesome.

26:15
Sophs Magnanini
As we kind of come up towards the end of our chat, what is some advice that you would give someone who wants to start a business? Focus on sustainability or social impact?

26:25
Maddy Lyon
I think, like, having the ability to try stuff out before you fully do it is really great. I think, like, being able to, like, learn what works and what doesn't work before, like, you quit your job or you fully take the, like, doing that R D can make you so much more confident in, like, what you're actually going to be doing. And I don't know, I'm. I'm still figuring it out. I feel sometimes I still. But like, I just, to me, like, oh, my God, I want to be a small business owner so that I can, like, you know, have a flexible schedule. Schedule or be this. And I would just say to anybody who's like, I want to be a small business owner so that I can like, you know, have less work or xyz. It's like completely the opposite.

27:17
Maddy Lyon
You're gonna work like twice as much as you would if you had a regular job. But there. But it's beautiful and it's awesome and like, I think that it's really important to have a clear vision of what you're gonna do. It might not always end up being like that vision you set out with. Might change like six months or a year in. But I think kind of having like, conviction and the idea that you want to pursue can really help. Like, it's what you revisit when you're in your dark moments is like, no, I have like, this mission that I really care about. And like, for me it really helps to just like when I'm feeling really down in it and like, why am I doing this?

27:54
Maddy Lyon
I'm like, no, there's a bigger picture to this and it's a part of a bigger web and that's what, like, makes it feel good. I think, like, it's a great time to be getting into sustainability and Environmentally, socially, sort of focused work, because we really need it and it's really what's going to carry us through the next decade of like a warming climate and the challenges that come with that. So it's a good time to get into it. And if you have an idea, like, don't be afraid to try it out,.

28:24
Sophs Magnanini
Kind of focus on something that will help others and not just yourself, which is really awesome. And I feel like you're doing a bunch of that with Men Mother.

28:35
Maddy Lyon
Thank you. Yeah, sorry, the train is pulling through.

28:40
Sophs Magnanini
Oh no, you're all good.

28:41
Maddy Lyon
But yeah, it's hard work, but it's worth it. The moments where people like appreciate your work that you're doing, like make everything worth it. So. Yeah.

28:55
Sophs Magnanini
Well, as we come up to our last question, I just wanted to ask, where can listeners learn more about Men Mother and also possibly get involved?

29:05
Maddy Lyon
Yeah, it's a great time to ask that question. So we're coming in September. We're taking over Lump Art Gallery, which has been around for like 30 years. Myself and two collaborators are taking the building over. It's down on Blount Street. So I'll be using half the space and then the other half will be used as sort of like an interdisciplinary arts event space. So we're gonna have a lot more space and a lot more opportunities to get involved, whether it's like volunteering or interning or, you know, some part time work. But I will also say, like, just keeping tabs on our Instagram and our website for like workshops that we're hosting and we'll probably be doing.

29:50
Maddy Lyon
I'm really hoping in the fall that we might start sort of like an open studio program where people can come and work on sewing projects in our studio if they don't have space at home. So there's going to be a lot of fun stuff that we're kind of promoting and working on throughout the summer as we get closer to moving into that new space. So yeah, I mean, Instagram is definitely like where I'm the most at active with like promoting stuff. So that would be the best place to check out. I'm gonna be doing like some fundraising this summer too. Just like sliding scale stuff to try and earn a little bit of extra money to like get some new furniture for my new space.

30:30
Maddy Lyon
So yeah, it'll be a busy summer, but come the fall we'll have kind of a street level brick and mortar situation which will be open five days a week.

30:41
Sophs Magnanini
That's so exciting. I'm so glad to hear that's going to be such a cool space and just environment to be in.

30:46
Maddy Lyon
So fun. We're calling it. So the current gallery is called Lump and we're going to be changing the name to Plum. So also go follow Plum on Instagram. We're going to be having workshops, live music, you know, community, like craft nights, community art engagement. So it'll be really cool to kind of like weave Men Mothers business concept into kind of an active, like, art space. And yeah, it'll be. It'll be super welcoming and everyone's welcome there. So, yeah, I'm super excited.

31:20
Sophs Magnanini
I know that does sound so exciting. I'm so glad to hear that.

31:23
Maddy Lyon
Yeah.

31:24
Sophs Magnanini
Well, I just want to say thank you again, so much for coming on the interview and talking about Men Mother and everything you do. It's so cool. And, and I like. It's also just very inspiring for anyone listening that is trying to or wants to go that route with kind of creating their own business or even just getting more into the sustainability of textiles and all that stuff.

31:49
Maddy Lyon
Thanks for interviewing me. I appreciate coming on. It's like always an awesome opportunity to chat with new people and I just appreciate the airtime.

32:00
Sophs Magnanini
But I just want to encourage all of you guys to check out Men Mother. It's such a cool place and just an amazing sustainability opportunity. Like, you can get some new clothes, you can learn how to prepare them yourself. You can just learn more about so much stuff, which I feel like we kind of are desensitized to in this day and age. But thank you all for listening to Oak City Move once again. I'm your host, Sophia Magnanini, and if you're interested in listening to this episode again or to past episodes of the show, you can go to wk.org podcast and make sure to tune into our show every other Monday on WKNC 88.1 FM Raleigh. Have a great day, yall.