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In Ecclesiastes 3:11, we read that God makes everything beautiful in its time. It is comforting to know that nothing is wasted in God's economy, but all of it will be used for our good and His glory. You're invited to join us for poignant conversations and compelling interviews centered on believing for His beauty in every season.
Everything Made Beautiful (00:00.45)
Well, hey, Brandy. Thank you so much for doing this. I have, you know, everyone's already heard the intro that I gave for you, but I just want to say that we have been in some trenches of ministry together. We have. We met because you were actually asking me to come speak at something. That's right. And while I was talking to you, I was feeling the Lord prompting me to ask you what
job you had done when you were working. And you mentioned that you were a preschool director and that was exactly what we needed at Church of the City. And so I came and spoke at the thing you were hoping for and you came to work. And I'm really grateful for that, yes. And it has turned into a beautiful season of you then becoming the children's pastor and now the West Area pastor at Church of the City. And I will say
lot of people have the title of pastor you actually embody it and live it out. You are a shepherd, a true shepherd. You care for people and it was the thing that drew me to you but also it was why I think we were such a good team because I'm very process and details and and how do we do this and do it right and I care abundantly about people.
but you will sit in their stories and in their pain and so it's a real gift so I'm really grateful for you. Thank you for coming to share your story today. It is profound and you know when we talk about everything being made beautiful and everything being made beautiful in the timing that God has ordained for it you have seen that lived out.
in a really specific and tangible way. And we will get to the meat of the story, but first I would just love for you to tell us kind of where it all began, like a little bit about you, how you grew up, your family, all of those sorts of things so people can get to know you. Yeah, great. No, I love this. Thanks for having me first. This is an honor, truly. It's a joy. So yeah, South Mississippi Girl is where it started. So everything you think about, dirt roads,
Everything Made Beautiful (02:18.51)
Magnolia trees, gardens. I grew up on it, a farm in South Mississippi. I grew up in what America considers poverty. So my dad made about $8 an hour, raised a family of four. So I was that barefoot country girl. And we grew everything we ate. And what I lacked in money, I had a wealth in, in faith. So my parents were just God loving, God serving people.
Grew up in the church, my mom was the church secretary. And so every time the doors were open, which we've talked about before, we were there. Sunday morning, Sunday night, Wednesday night, we were there. So just a sweet, sweet understanding of who Jehovah Jireh was from little on, that he was my provider God. So grew up in the church at 12 years old. I grew up in the Southern Baptist Church. 12 years old, felt a call in to ministry, and my parents had no idea what to do with that.
being a girl at 12 so young. didn't really know how to shepherd that kind of a calling. I kind of took it toward children. I've always loved children. I wanted kids to have the same testimony that I have of always knowing the Lord and knowing that He loves me and that I love Him. So that was super sweet to be able to kind of guide myself to that path.
but felt like there was something more there. I always felt like really called to pastoring people. I feel like it's a spiritual gift of mine as you shared to just pastor shepherd, exhortation, faith and prayer. So did that as much as I could in children's ministry. But yeah, I was amazed at coming to here in Franklin. So we moved here probably about Jackson was two at the time. So
you know, a years into our marriage, we were still really young in our early twenties. And you met Michael in school, right? Yeah, totally did. So funny story, Michael and I met in the eighth grade. I walked in. mean, you just don't hear that anymore. small town. Our grandparents went to grade school together. So we played T -ball against each other, like the works. And we met in eighth grade on the first day of eighth grade. sat beside him in our
Everything Made Beautiful (04:31.341)
first period class, my best was late and he was the cutest little thing ever. And I was like, I will date that boy. So I did. And so we started dating in ninth grade, didn't go anywhere, but and got married very young at the age of 20 and had Jackson at 24. So 26 were here. We moved here after Katrina. So we made it through Katrina and just felt like, you know, our time running from hurricanes was done, but ran into a different kind of storm.
So tell us, you're married, you've been married how long now? So we've been married for six years, about six years at this point. this point, Jackson is two, so you being in children's ministry knew what it was like for young moms, you're now a young mom, and you're thinking, I've had enough of hurricanes, and I mean, what is that like, like to live in that?
kind of area, Mississippi, New Orleans, Louisiana area when a hurricane is coming. Right. So it's just really, you know it's coming. So it's a storm you see coming on the horizon. Also, you get a little immune to it. You think, surely it's going to turn. Surely it's going to turn. Which is why people tend to ride them out if they are native to that part of the world. Right. Katrina was a whole different ballgame.
And so that was one that we did not want to repeat, especially having a child ourselves. So I was in New Orleans when it happened and I was like, we do not have to do this again. There are places where hurricanes are not even a consideration. So that brought you to Nashville and specifically to Franklin. And what was Michael doing for work at the time? So he's an accountant. So we moved here for his job. Great job. He's still at the same company today. Very loyal.
We moved here for that and I'll say it was a culture shock for me. mean growing up in poverty and growing up where everyone around me is in the same state of lifestyle to live somewhere so affluent was just a little bit of a different place for me. And I was trying to find my tribe, right? Find my people. Took a little bit to do that, being a young mom and I was trying to create community here and I'll just say.
Everything Made Beautiful (06:47.861)
Really wanting Michael to start to feel voids that I was feeling leaving Mississippi. You know, I had a sweet community there, very involved in our church, really close family, lived nearby. So we had so much around us too. He's gone for work all day. I don't know anyone. You know, I've never done that before. So you didn't have any family here? No family, no ties, no friends. So just starting fresh. Did you get involved in a church?
We did, you know, there's a lot of churches in Franklin, Tennessee. we church hopped for a hot minute. We went from place to place and we landed at a church off Franklin Road in a sweet community of people there. So I was starting to make some friends. But you know, still Michael was home to me and married really young and starting out young. you're growing up together. are. And my identity, our identities were in one another.
It's a lot of codependency that we didn't realize that we had that started to bubble to the surface in unhealthy ways. So you said you looked to him to fill the voids you were feeling from moving away. Yeah. What does that look like? Like how did you realize, I'm sure in retrospect, I was using him to fill voids? Right. I mean, I just think about my relationship with my dad. You know, things that...
you know, we would have talked about, Michael needed to have that conversation with me. Things with best friends that I would talk to every day, play dates that I was having, that I would bounce things off. I'm a verbal processor, he is not. So it was just a lot of me wanting him to be all of those things and all of those people that I had left, you know, in Mississippi. And just is a lot for him. As he's worked all day, comes home, we have a toddler, you know. Yeah, he spent all day extroverting.
Totally. Yeah, I needed to come down and there I was just waiting for him to come home. So it just it created some wedges and brought out a lot of unhealth and me. I really wasn't fun to live with at the time. Just really demanding emotional. I think that counseling would have been a route then, but I didn't have the resource to know to do that.
Everything Made Beautiful (09:05.929)
So it started to put a wedge between us. So you mentioned that you ran from a physical storm and ended up in the storm of your life. Definitely. So tell us about that. So we're here about a year into being here. I just could tell things were not going well in our marriage. We had gotten to a place where we were talking about very little other than just Jackson.
And we had went on an anniversary date and we got into an argument and I just thought this cannot be the marriage that you have for me Lord. Like I've always been the girl that said yes and done all the right things and but this cannot be it. Like we cannot. It was just too much at the time and I wanted to leave honestly and go back to Mississippi and all the things that I knew and
Don't know how to tell you other than to be completely honest, I tried to open the door and it physically would not open. And so I had the door of your house. My house door would not open the front door of our home. And I hit the floor crying and yelling and I was angry at God, not angry at Michael, not angry at being in this beautiful place that the Lord put us, but angry at God and what I thought that I wanted this marriage that I thought this marriage would be that he had for us.
And it wasn't, you know? so long story short, I got up from that and the Lord just said, Brandy, I want you to just seek me. And so for the first time in a really long time, I, every morning, began waking up and just, in God's word, just allowing the Lord to complete me. And that's what I call that year. That year was a completion year of just God only you. Like I can't look to Michael.
can't look to family, I can't look to friends, to really understand that God is our completion and He is our Father, our Creator, our Friend, all the things that you long for in life from others, that He can truly be that for you. So that was that year for me and I'll tell you that I was in such a great place, I like to say I was on a Jesus high, that I didn't even know that our marriage had really began to get worse because I was doing so much better.
Everything Made Beautiful (11:21.831)
And the Lord had challenged me to with Michael to greet him at the door. And so that same door that wouldn't open the door that wouldn't open. He said, I want you to greet him here every day when he comes home. And so at first I did it through gritted teeth and then I did it with a smile. Then I did it with a how was your day. And then one day I scared myself. I did it with a hug. And then I saw, wow, he's really handsome. Like I forgot. Like the Lord began to give me
eyes to see Michael how he sees him and not because I was receiving anything in return, just out of true obedience was I then able to see what God saw and I began to pray for him in ways I had never prayed for him before. And so a year into this, I had went out with a girlfriend for dinner and some shopping and I came home and Michael was sitting there and the house was quiet and he said, Brandy, I need to tell you something and you're going to to sit down.
And I said, if something's wrong with Jackson, you need to tell me now. And he said, no, it's not Jackson. It's something with you and I. need you to sit down. And I'm like, OK, what's going on? And he said, this is going to be hard for you to hear. But I am in love with another woman.
Mm -hmm. And it was the hardest words that you can possibly imagine. So everything, every dream that I ever had for my life, every dream I had for us, every future plan that you have, in one small sentence, right, from someone that you love. I mean, not having an affair. I'm in love with someone else. Mm -hmm. And he meant it. And so he truly was. had...
we had talked through that night then. And I would like to tell you that I did everything right, completely honest, it went from looking like a Jerry Springer show to all my knees. I think that's comforting to me. mean, like this is not my first time hearing the story and it has arrested me again. I'm not sure that I would even look like myself. I did a few laps and then I'd hit my knees and pray and then I would stand up and yell and then I would
Everything Made Beautiful (13:31.799)
sit with him and listen and then I would do it all over again. That's just a reality of your emotions as you're hit with something so traumatic and hard. So we talked through that night and I could tell he wasn't being completely honest. I've known Michael since he was a kid pretty much. So I said, there's something you're not telling me. And he said, well, there is more. And I said, Michael, just say it. I said, does it have to do with a child? And his body slid down the wall.
And he said, we have a child together. Her name is Maggie, and she is six months old.
Everything Made Beautiful (14:10.451)
Mm -hmm. And for me, it was incredibly hard because I longed to have another child and we had not been able to have another child. And I was trying to receive, right, the gift that God had given him a child out of this and not as a child. So all of this is going through my mind at one time. And the fact that, you know,
He's telling me, but I want to fight for a marriage. want to fight for us, but I'm having a hard time leaving this other woman because of this child. And so right then and there, thought, okay, God, this is why you've done this in me this year. This is going to be our testimony. If he wants to fight for a marriage, then I'm willing to say yes to you and I'm willing to say yes to this child. And Shannon, I cannot tell you it is nothing.
But the Lord, He gave me a scripture from Maggie from 1st Timothy 4 that says, do not reject anything I created, but to accept it with thanksgiving because it is made in the image of God. that is Maggie. Like she is His child. She's just a delight. And so right then people always ask like, well, how did you get that feels bigger than even the, you know, and I'm like, no, like that was my acceptance right then of her. So
I felt like this had to be our story. But there was one thing that I missed in this is that I really thought that I could save him. Like I thought I could be Jesus. I thought there was enough of me, enough love I could offer him, enough forgiveness I could offer enough. You could fill his void. the things. I could show him how to do that. What I've learned this year and how he could do that. that was...
That was the wrong, I feel like we tried for four months. We renewed our vows at a marriage conference. We did counseling right away. I did counseling, he did counseling separate. You all the things that you should do to repair your marriage. And the reality was is my husband was in love with someone else. And four months in, we're sitting in a counseling appointment and he asked to go see the counselor before me. And I knew that that meant there was something he needed to say.
Everything Made Beautiful (16:31.591)
And when I got up there, you know, she let him talk and he admitted that he was still in love with her. And I knew I could feel it. I could feel that there was something that the Lord was preparing me for. But for the first time in my life, I was completely silent. I had nothing to say. And I walked out and I moved in with a friend. I got Jackson and our things to move in for a few days and I asked him to move out.
So that led in a path of separation. I was in fear and I was really hurt. And I just felt like the Lord was saying, I need you to separate yourself from His sin. And so in that, I just took some time to sit with God and what the next steps would be. Again, I was in counseling. But two weeks into that, I started to feel sick. And everyone thought it was the stress, obviously, of what I'm going through.
And a friend at church said, Brandy there's no way you could be pregnant. And I was like, you have got to be kidding me. No, God would not do that. Not now. It's on Mother's Day. And so I was given a gift card to Target to go buy a Mother's Day gift from her friend for Jackson. And so we went, and he picked me out some cute little necklace. And I grabbed some pregnancy test to prove her wrong. girl, I took all in that box. And sure enough.
I was pregnant
And again, Brandy, I feel like we need to give people an opportunity to breathe. know. So you've, you've been betrayed. Yeah. And then you've thought, I can't believe that the thing I've wanted has been given to my husband through someone else. And okay, now we're going to work on it. Okay.
Everything Made Beautiful (18:27.369)
now his feelings haven't changed, he's continued with her, okay, now we're gonna separate and now I'm pregnant with the very thing I've wanted all along. my goodness. Right? Like, I know that you've told, that God has used this testimony enough that you're good at telling it without theatrics, but I just wanna say on behalf of people that are probably thinking, I...
I don't know that I could do this. think my question is when you were separated, were you on the fence about whether or not this was gonna work? totally. No, I thought we were gonna end up getting a divorce. So I assumed he would be with her. He had moved in with her when we separated. And so I thought with the pregnancy, this is why I really feel like God.
I mean, I feel like God was writing this whole story right the whole time. But with the pregnancy, we needed to stay married because insurance paid for the baby when we stayed married. Because it was through his work. And so we needing to take a legal separation is what we did. And so we did not divorce. And so that kept us legally married. And I did at the beginning pray for my marriage, hoping that the Lord would, you know, reconcile and
but I can remember, I mean, I've went through so many emotions, Shannon. mean, you know, can't imagine. mean, every day, every day, 999 ,000 times a day of forgiving, you know, him and her forgiving. And, I mean, it was a constant. It wasn't, this was a practiced thing. You know, we talk about rhythms and this was a practiced rhythm and that was to get up off the floor. Yeah.
So that was to survive, to take care of myself and to take care of Jackson. And because now I'm a single mom who works a part -time job at a church whose lawyer said she needs to go back to school and finish her degree. that was a lot to take in. And going from being a stay -at -home mom to that was a journey. So no, there were a lot of emotions, a lot of I can't believe, know, God, this is my story.
Everything Made Beautiful (20:50.965)
His portion was so kind. mean, I say all the time in that I was able to keep my job at the church. They were so kind to me. kind of took away some responsibilities that would have me carrying deeply. We just went through a monotonous task of loving children, which was so beautiful. But a lady walked up to me and she said, I want you to know that God is a God of details and order.
If you hadn't brought it up, I would have because that has become your mantra. is, yeah. And in that, that is what I leaned into every day. God being a God of order in whatever's to come. And he was always in the details of, you know, I'm at a place where I can't call Michael. Like we need groceries. There's not enough money left in the checking account. God, I can't do it. If I call him, I'm going to sin. I need your help.
opening mailbox and there's a $200 Kroger gift card with nobody's name on it just sitting there for me like specific prayers only he and I would know. So just watching provision and you know crying out to him and having wise counsel in that time was so helpful you know I am grateful for praying before I told everyone there was a lot of people didn't know what was happening in our life at the time and just being mindful of who I let in.
to those sacred places and to those moments. So, yeah. So now you're pregnant and when did you tell Michael? Right away. I had my girlfriends over, I called him, I needed to be on speaker for accountability, I just needed to hold myself together and he came over to just see the pregnancy test and to see if this, you know, how I was doing and.
He was in shock. don't think he really believed, you know, that this could be. And it put him in another dark place. And Michael had people walking. He was in accountability groups. He had men, some that were treated him, you know, like the prodigal son and praying for him until he came home. Others who were in the ditch with him. And that's a beautiful part of our story that I don't want to leave out because it takes two people to get to the end of our story. And it was those friends walking with him just like...
Everything Made Beautiful (23:06.891)
my sisters who were walking with me, that really the community around us, that helped us have the outcome we did. But yeah, I'm pregnant. And doing it pretty much, you you want to say alone, but again, I go back to Community. Yeah, goodness. mean, Isabelle's dream was like Pottery Barn threw up in it. And the closets were filled and everything was ready, you know, and I had them doctor visits, know, everything I needed.
They were there. Vacations I was going on, I mean, just surrounding me with love and grace and just so much kindness and support. So Isabel's getting ready to come. This is the end of my semester two at school. Taking my finals. Michael has visitation with Jackson. Ask if he can come in that evening. And it was our 10th wedding anniversary.
and so you've now been separated almost a year almost a year okay yeah and he says that the lord has completely lifted a veil and shown truth to him and a lot of things he shared in that conversation were very specific to things that i had been praying for him and again you have to remember i quit praying for my marriage and i started praying for his soul and that was a
big, big part of what I really think that the Lord used. That's where I think my prayer life changed to. I mean, look at that. What's the book War Room? Like I, that's what I had. I mean, it had sticky notes of, you know, Holy Spirit moments, words God was giving me for him. And I mean, he was my best friend. You know, I had grown up with him. He was the father of my children and I wanted him healthy, you know, and whole and loving Jesus again. And so, so it became less about
the marriage. Getting us back together and more about, he needs to be a whole healthy person. Totally, which is what you would ever want in a marriage if you're looking at a marriage, but it was more about what I wanted for my kids and what I wanted for him. And truly what I felt like God wanted for him. And that's where I think the Lord started to change things too, is he gave me eyes to see Michael as he was seeing him. So these visits, these, you know, when I would pick him up or drop him off.
Everything Made Beautiful (25:23.415)
You know, I could see what sin was doing. I could see brokenness in a tender way. And it just gave me so much compassion and just grace for Him that the bitterness, the anger that I was justified to have, I mean, that I thought I would have knowing who I am, were replaced with. And I'm grateful for that. But I know it was only by the work of the Lord in me, not anything I could do on my own.
So when he said he wanted to fight for our marriage, going back to that couch conversation, you know, I just really wasn't ready. You know, I felt like at that time I needed to see fruit in his life. I needed to see that the Lord was changing, you know, some patterns that I had seen and because we had not really been in each other's life for that year. Isabel started to come early. So I went to some preterm with her. All my sisters were there.
27 of them I feel like in the room waiting for her to catch her and she didn't come and then the biggest snowstorm I'm not kidding that ever has hit Nashville came there's only a one lane downhill spur and I made it there myself only one girlfriend that could get to me kept Jackson and the only person that could get there was Michael and I just felt like God of course details in order right from the very beginning
And so we show up and we bring in this beautiful life together. And that was just such a holy moment. It just truly was. Her name is Isabel, which means dedicated to God. And her middle name is Hope, which means our faith and trust in Him. And I just see, I can go back to that day and I just saw something in Him and I knew that the Lord was doing a work in Him and it didn't happen overnight.
I never liked to give that false hope. mean, this was a long, you know, it took a long time to get us there. It took a long time, you know, even after. And it was slow. was dinners, family dinners together, coming in and helping with the baby to, can I just stay the night? I'll stay on the couch because she's not sleeping well to, you know, now I'm going to move back in. And, but that decision was big. go back to our sweet Maggie, you know, we this stepdaughter.
Everything Made Beautiful (27:44.545)
And if that meant him coming back, that meant Maggie coming into our life. And then you have to remember, I also had a five -year -old at the time going on six who was seeing everything, right? So how do you explain to him how he's getting two sisters at once? And so there was so many details in order, moments that we needed God to step into. And every time when we surrendered, every time God showed up.
And so we're just so grateful. you know, fast forward, Maggie is with us then every other weekend. And I think about the name of your podcast and the word beautiful in it. And I remember sitting, we decided to take family pictures to just market and we drove up and the children were screaming in the backseat and Jackson was yelling because they were screaming.
you know, Isabelle's crying and Michael just starts dying at laughing. He said, well, this is not beautiful chaos. I don't know what is. And so the word beautiful and beauty of the ashes just became kind of a mantra for us. If this is what our story truly is, you know, and again, we're 13 years out, but was going to say, and so how much time has elapsed now? 13 years. So Isabelle Hope is 13 now. Maggie's 14, you know, Jackson's 19 and
And because there's a daughter involved, you are still in relationship at some level with this woman. And how have you done? As if everything else isn't unbelievable enough. It's not just now this affair has ended and we never have to speak of her again. She's a 50 % of Sweet Maggie. How does that work?
We like to say often, Autumn and I say that the Lord just wrote the characters in this story, like only he could. I actually talked to her this morning. We were discussing something about school and stuff, and I told her that I was going to get to share our story again today. And she's like, our story is worth sharing. So it is just, we have our own redemption story. She and I do. I remember the first time we, she brought Maggie to preschool where I was teaching and we, she has to talk to me. So this is the first time without Michael present and
Everything Made Beautiful (30:05.569)
I can still see her and it's, you know, the visual of the woman at Jesus' feet and just weeping at his feet. And she just fell down in repentance and to be able to get down on her level and hold her and cry with her. And that was holy work, Shannon. Like that, that was Jesus. Like I, there's nothing in me.
that says I had the strength to do that. Michael was a part of me. Maggie was a child that didn't ask for this. I had no ties to this woman. But to see her as a sister in Christ broken and to see myself in my own sin at times and know that our sin is no different, to hold her, to weep with her, and to forgive her was holy.
And so the relationship we have today, you know, it's sweet. We raised this daughter together and she's just a delight. She's witty and smart. She's all get out. She is a delight. Yeah. She's a gift and she calls me mama Brandy. And I'm grateful. I never want to take Autumn's place. And we say that often. That's her mom.
I don't have any desire to take her place in this, but to be an extra, to love her, you know, it's been a gift. It's a gift I never knew I needed, but I'm forever grateful that I have. It's changed me, you know, to love someone outside of yourself in a way that you didn't birth. You know, I see that through adoption. We see these stories, but I feel like that has been, you know, my story with Maggie. I'm so grateful, but yeah.
And she and Izzy together are just, it is so cute to see the way that God has just intertwined them. So true. It's so true. They're little besties. They're sisters. They could not be more opposite in every part of their nature, but it works so well. You know, they're just, they're precious. So I'm grateful for their relationship. All of my kids, they love each other dearly and I'm really thankful. Yeah. They, you know, for those of us who
Everything Made Beautiful (32:26.125)
came into your life after this had already happened, we just kind of listened slack -jawed. The Michael I know isn't even capable of that behavior. Do you know what I'm saying? I met you guys in 2017 or 2018 maybe by that point and that was so long ago and so I can't even fathom a world.
Right. Like Michael seems like a different person than what you describe. is again a testament to what God can do. redemptive work. And yes, and yes when we talk about everything being made beautiful, I just, your story is the first one that jumps into my brain when we talk about things that there's absolutely no way this can be turned for good. There's absolutely no possibility that this will turn out.
to be something that we look back on and would we change it if we could? Now that we have Maggie, I can't conceive of a world where there's not a Maggie. And so that has to be the renewal work of God. But I will say the things I'm wondering that I feel like I should ask you, just on behalf of people that are probably maybe screaming in their cars, but what about...
Do you struggle with trust issues? you get concerned? Is there like an impending feeling? Like how do you navigate that? Definitely at first. think it was this, I made up a word in this time called surrenderance and it's the state of surrender. And so I say, you your hands are out in surrender and at the same time you're receiving it's a posture. And so
hands out and surrender meant everything went. And so I remember sitting with my counselor, Lisa, who is a lifeline for me and making the decision to say yes to this marriage again. And I was like, but what if, but what if he, but what if, and she goes, but what if it's kind of like exposure therapy, right? We went through it all. Yeah, he might. Yeah. He might do that too. Yeah. That might happen too. Yeah.
Everything Made Beautiful (34:47.201)
but it's all already happened and how are you right now? And so it was just remembering the goodness of God. Like it might all happen and that's going to be horrible again, but God was so good and so faithful. And then what if I don't? What if that doesn't happen? What am I missing out on? Right? So with that, say all that to say that's prefacing the trust issues, you know,
I had to do that over and over again in my head. And it was just constant. I mean, they worked together. So they had to go back to work together, you know, and I had to trust this. Now they went into different departments. There was some separation that they both wanted. But the Lord was just really kind, Shannon. It was a constant state of prayer to you. know, again, it would come up 999 ,000 times. And it was that surrender of Lord, no, I trust you.
I trust you with Michael. I trust you with the story. I trust you with myself. I can't. But yeah, was just, and over time it lessened. You know, I don't deal with it anymore. I just feel like I also saw a change in Michael that was quite evident. It was like that veil had been lifted, truly. And I began to see such beautiful fruit produced in his life. He is...
It was like he woke up and he was who my best friend was. So there were some changes that I knew were happening in him that gave me more, you know. Which is why I can't even conceive of it. yeah. Right, right. He was in just a really dark place. And so when you see that light come back and that redemptive work happening, and that doesn't mean things have always been easy. They haven't. You know, we've had dark seasons since then.
That's more like, I would call it like aftershocks of the storm if you think about it. And that's dealt with depression, anxiety, things like that that the enemy then wants to use as you face something so incredibly hard that takes you down a darker road. But overall, the trust is there. I think you have to, you have to or.
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then you're living in a state of fear and then it's not a state of peace. And I don't feel like the Lord can really do redemptive work if we're living in a state of fear. And so to walk in a true redemption state is to be like, Lord, I surrender, you know? And I'm gonna walk in faith, trust in the outcome to you. So details in order again, right? Yeah. Yeah. So I know, first of all, thank you for sharing that. can't imagine
having the responsibility to steward a story like that. I've watched you for many years now steward this story in a really inspiring way. I also remember when we, at church, when we kind of went public with your story. It was during a sermon series that made a lot of sense and it was shot on video, certainly not this length, but enough that people got the gist. And you and I prayed.
ahead of that because I knew that what happens when somebody goes public with their story is it invites everybody with a similar story to reach out and look for counsel and hope, which can be good. It can also be a really heavy weight. So I know that happened to you. And so I know you've talked to a lot of women and men who have found themselves in situations similar to what you and Michael walked through.
What do you say to women who are struggling, having experienced infidelity, but their partner is not interested in saving the marriage, working on the marriage, hasn't had the veil lifted? Like I can imagine there's some people listening or watching today who are thinking, must be nice to have somebody who has the veil lifted and wants to invest.
what has been the counsel you've given to women who find themselves in a situation where that's not the case? Right, and that's been more the case than not, sadly. You know, it goes back to it takes two. So like you said, and I start with that, with women, you know, we have the surrender, right? We have the longing for the covenant that we made and the hope that, you know, God can restore all things and he is a redemptive God and
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But we're not Jesus, and we can't save them. And so it is just reminding them of who their maker is and who their husband is and reminding them what true completion is and letting them hear that part of my story and understand that that is where my healing happened. You it wasn't Michael coming back of where my healing happened. My everything that came after the Lord completing me.
was then just a gift from Him. So it was just, you're restoring my marriage now. I praise you, Lord. this baby, I praise you, Lord. But it was the completion the Lord had. So it's helping them find that completion in Him as their maker and their husband and walking that out with them, regardless of the outcome of their marriage and letting them get to a healthier place and resources like counseling and things like that.
prayer and hopeful prayer for their spouses and times ex -spouses. So at this point, I've walked with a lot of marriages and the Lord has redeemed and sometimes it's a separation period and then they come back. But to see women walk out healthy and whole lot of something that enemy wanted to cause destruction and evil from is that's redemptive work in itself. So that's beauty of the ashes, even though marriages may not.
be whole in the end. And I know we actually know some people and I think you've had the opportunity to talk to some women who were the ones who had the affair. And so what would you say to people who are listening today and they're thinking, yeah, the issue wasn't him. The issue was me. And I was the one who made that choice. Just how have you counseled those?
women that you've talked to. Right. First, I just thank them for their courage. You know, it's so courageous to come and own our sin. Like a lot of our sins, this kind of sin is so, it's out there. Like it's one that we see, especially if there's a child involved or, you know, it's publicized in some way. And so I just thank them for their courage to own, you know, the
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the mistake that they've made and the willingness to want to repent and want to make things right, know, first with the Lord and then sometimes in their marriage or with those that, you know, they may have hurt in this. So just sitting with them and praying with them and being receptive to, you know, thank you for, and I think it's even more telling when they sit across from me and they feel like I'm sitting across from the other woman.
you know, if they were in a marriage situation, that's so healing. have sensed oftentimes not that they can be forgiven. You know, it's like a face of forgiveness, not that I'm Jesus and they need that, but it gives them the courage then to go to and ask for forgiveness, you know, in the other situations that they find themselves in. So that's been an honoring place to sit. Like that's a truly honoring place that I...
would not have expected, you know, women to come and want to have those authentic conversations with me and I'm just really honored and, but yeah, God's done beautiful work in those two as well, just redemption, so. Well, one of the ways I see everything being made beautiful in your story is the opportunity that you have to be the hope of the gospel to women, men, marriages.
I mean the enemy comes only to steal, kill, and destroy. But he has come that we would have life and not just life but flourishing and abundant life and you are able to speak hope and renewal into some places that have been left desolate through choices and if we really understand the gospel then we understand that
we are the adulterers in the relationship. We are the ones who go looking for satisfaction and filling and pleasure seeking in a host of other places when it's our covenant with our Heavenly Father where it's truly found. And so when we realize all we have been forgiven, rescued, freed from, then...
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we are able to be empowered by only the Holy Spirit alone to offer that to others. And so I just want to commend you and tell you that your story with Michael is not over, it's continuing its renewal work. Everyone that hears it, everyone that comes in contact, it's like you said also, even marriages that don't end up
making it whole at the end of that kind of situation that they walk through, it's still, I think, a hope overall for us as believers when we see God do something so profound in something that was so destitute at a time. Having the personal relationship with you and Michael and with all three of the kids, like, I am able to say, yes,
It's true, yes, it can happen, yes, it works, yes, God can do anything he wants to do. So I'm just so appreciative of your willingness to share your story, to encourage people who are listening who may find themselves going, I don't know how this is ever going to turn out anything other than terribly, but God of details and order is true in everything. his sovereignty extends.
to every detail. And so thank you for the way that you've pastored me, shepherded me, reminded me of God of details and order along the way. We have seen some crazy stuff in our ministry tenure together, and I'm grateful that we're still able to be together. Before we wrap, the question that I ask every guest, are you ready?
If you could design your perfect, beautiful day, what would it look like from start to finish? Because we talk about everything made beautiful, but that's not only in the life to come. It's right now. There's renewal and beauty. So what's your perfect, beautiful day from start to finish? You get to design it. Wonderful. Wow. I'm excited. Did I get to have it? Exactly. Exactly. We'll try to make them all happen. Okay. Wonderful. Wow. Okay. I love being home.
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So I truly love my home. I do. It's have a stream in my backyard. So to be able to wake up when I want to wake up, not when the alarm clock goes off and tells me I have to wake up, would be wonderful. And to have it be silent and to sit in my little cozy spot where I do my quiet time and then to
Take a walk. We live by the river. I want to walk by a body of water. I love to be by a body of water. And I want to do that with my family, I think. I love to be with my people. So take a walk with my dog and my people. And then I would love to have chicken salad for lunch on a croissant, because I can't eat croissants, but I want to pretend like I can. OK. So there's a gluten issue there. we're going to say that in the...
Perfect. Yes, I can have it. Can I have coffee too with your whipped cream on it? I can have Shannon whipped cream. Okay. I that too. this is delighted. Okay. So that will be my lunch. And then I am going to take a very long bath. I know that feels weird in the middle of the day, but it's just quiet and peaceful. And then I am going to read a book and not like a
I want a fun book, not like a leadership book. I want to learn something. Don't teach me. I just want to be in somebody's story lost. Like fun. Okay. I'm going to read a whole book, a whole book. Start to crush. A whole book. And then I'm going to watch something crazy like survivor with my family or, you know, dance moms. I don't know. silly. Crazy. till we can laugh and then have a game night and then Michael will grill something.
And it's just my people and my peaceful place and just enjoying life. think I just don't take it for granted anymore. And I just love to make sweet memories in the present. So that sounds like a beautiful day. I know. I think should do all those things except the croissant. Don't do the croissant. Cause I know that that will be a problem. But there are lots of good gluten free dupes these days. mean, they say so I'll try.
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Friend, I'm so thankful for you. I'm thankful for your story. I know it has helped people and I'm just going to look direct to camera here for those of you that are watching. One of the most important, two of the most important things that Brandi said when she was telling her story were that she was in community and that she was in counseling. And so if you're walking through something similar or it doesn't even have to be an issue of infidelity, maybe there's just something that is getting the best of you in your life.
community, healthy community, community that points you to Jesus, community that helps you know that you're not alone but that he is the one who is the rescuer and then a great, wise, I would say Christian biblical counselor who can walk you through the next right steps will be so instrumental in ensuring that you are able to see around the corner and see how God is making everything beautiful. So thank you so much.
joining us today. A couple of things that Brandy mentioned will be on the show notes if you want to refer back to them, but the God of Details and Order has you today just the same way that he had Brandy and Michael in their story. He has me in mine, he has you in yours. So I hope that you're encouraged and we will look forward to seeing you next time.