Revolutionary Optimism Podcast

Dr. Zeitz and Reverend Redeem Robinson are shedding light on the challenges and triumphs of grassroots advocacy in the modern era. After delving into their shared experiences of activism, including their arrest for demanding climate action at the White House, they address the pressing issues of voter apathy, the complexities of the 2024 election landscape and the need for reparations for African Americans. With candor and urgency, they examine the need for transformative change in American politics and offer practical strategies for mobilizing communities toward a more just and equitable future.

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Revolutionary Optimism is hosted by Dr. Paul Zeitz and produced by Earfluence.

What is Revolutionary Optimism Podcast?

To respond to the challenging times we are living through, physician, humanitarian and social justice advocate Dr. Paul Zeitz has identified “Revolutionary Optimism” as a new cure for hopelessness, despair, and cynicism. Revolutionary Optimism is itself an infectious, contagious, self-created way of living and connecting with others on the path of love. Once you commit yourself as a Revolutionary Optimist, you can bravely unleash your personal power, #unify with others, and accelerate action for our collective repair, justice, and peace, always keeping love at the center.

Announcer - 00:00:11:

Welcome to Revolutionary Optimism. Living at this time in history, we are challenged with the convergence of crises that is affecting our daily lives. Issues like economic hardship, a teetering democracy, and the worsening climate emergency have left many Americans feeling more despair than ever. To respond to the challenging times we're living through, physician, humanitarian, and social justice advocate, Dr. Paul Zeitz has identified Revolutionary Optimism as a new cure for hopelessness, despair, and cynicism. Once you commit yourself as a revolutionary optimist, you can bravely unleash your personal power, #unifywithothers, and accelerate action for our collective repair, justice, and peace. On this podcast, Dr. Zeitz is working to provide you with perspectives from leaders fighting for equity, justice, and peace on their strategies, insights, and tools for overcoming adversity and driving forward revolutionary transformation with unbridled optimism and real-world pragmatism. In this episode, Dr. Zeitz is talking with political and civil rights activist, Reverend Redeem Robinson. As the Founder and Executive Director of All Souls Movement, he has led the Black and Queer-led faith-based advocacy organization focused on reparations for African-Americans at the local level, reparations education, and voter mobilization for people of faith. With a deep commitment to justice and poverty alleviation, Reverend Robinson has dedicated himself to being a voice for the oppressed and standing up against oppression. Here's your host, Dr. Paul Zeitz.

Redeem - 00:01:44:

Hey, Redeem. Welcome. Great to see you.

Paul - 00:01:46:

Hey, great to see you.

Redeem - 00:01:49:

So we met last September. I want to start off the show today with just a reflections from our experience together. We met in September of 2023. We were part of a protest movement that was demanding that President Biden declare a climate emergency. And we were part of a two-week effort. There were about seven different days when a group of us assembled, and several of us each time would get arrested for affixing a sign to the White House fence declaring a climate emergency. There was a day where you and I were the designated people who were red who were prepared to be arrested. What do you remember about that day and how did it unfold from your perspective?

Paul - 00:02:41:

Yeah, they, yeah, we somehow ended up in the paddy wagon. It was Kai, you, Ali and myself. They put us in there and then they sent us off to like a precinct.

Redeem - 00:03:01:

Yeah, it was like the park police station.

Paul - 00:03:04:

Yeah. It's natural mall. Yeah. They sent us there. And I think we was there for about maybe two hours, two hours in. And all of a sudden I see the guards are letting Kai and Ali out. And I'm like, oh, wow, this is great. We get to go home. And all of a sudden I hear from Kai. I love you, brother. I'll see you later. And I'm like, no freaking way. They just let them go. And I'm banging on the door. I'm like, hey, you forgot us.

Redeem - 00:03:47:

Yeah. I was taking patient's pills at that time. I was like, you know, preparing for a long haul. Yeah. And then we were there a couple more hours. So after like four hours there, then they took us, they handcuffed us and took us by paddy wagon and they drove us over to DC Central Cell Block. Of course, we had no idea where we were going. There was no information provided. We had no phone call to our lawyer or to our loved ones. We felt, I personally felt like my human rights were already being violated because I thought you were supposed to have a phone call and no one knew exactly where we were. We had no way to communicate. They had confiscated our phone and my wallet and all that.

Paul - 00:04:31:

Yeah, so, man, it was a lot. So as soon as we get to the jail, by the way, this is like, I think it's like my second, maybe third time being held overnight. But when we got there... And I don't think you remember this. You know, I saw a sign on the wall that was talking about, you know, they reduced the number of prison rapes or jail rapes. And I'm looking at the wall and I'm like, oh wow! That's not the first thing I want to see when I get here. I mean, you know, I'm glad that they reduced the number, but that's not the first thing I want to see is something about jail.

Redeem - 00:05:15:

I totally blocked that out. I didn't see that at all.

Paul - 00:05:18:

Oh, I saw that. And I may mention it in the Nigerian guards. By the way, the guards there were all Nigerians and they was laughing. They was joking, clowning on us.

Redeem - 00:05:32:

Yeah, I remember because I figured that out. And I said, oh, I lived in Borno State. I lived in Abuja. I lived in Lagos on Victoria Island. You know, I had spent time in Nigeria. So I was like. I thought it was a good idea to befriend the guards. You know, like, I had no idea where we were going, but that was just a natural instinct of mine.

Paul - 00:05:53:


Redeem - 00:05:55:

So I remember when we got there, they did a medical interview. We had to go on this device where they were like a magnetic device where it made sure there were no razor blades in our mouth. That was kind of strange. And then we were escorted back into a cell block. With cages in it. And you could hear screaming and banging, and you could hear a women's unit in the far distance, but it was mostly empty. I remember the funniest thing for me that I remember is that when we got there, it was empty. So, you know, it's an open toilet. So we both were like, okay, why don't we take a cell? I'll take this cell and you'll have the cell next to it. And we'll be near each other, but we'll have our privacy. So the Nigerian guard started laughing at us, literally. And he's like, you guys, this is going to fill up overnight. So I strongly recommend that you partner. So we were like, okay. We laughed at our naivete. I laughed at our naivete. Then over to you. What did we experience?

Paul - 00:07:05:

Yeah, so this was the most interesting part of being in jail. I never seen guards. Well, you know, they fed us and made sure that we was hydrated. But the guards, they came back every now and then and asked us if we wanted juice. Like they had jugs of Kool-Aid, of orange drink and grape drink.

Redeem - 00:07:29:

And water.

Paul - 00:07:30:

Water, too. So, you know, we had to keep a cup. And we was able to ask him, you know, hey, can I get a thing of juice? Can I get a sandwich? The sandwich was, it was a basic bologna sandwich with nothing else on it. You know, that's what they gave us. Actually, at the time, I'm actually really grateful for that sandwich because I was actually really hungry.

Redeem - 00:07:53:

Yeah. Remember the vanilla cookie?

Paul - 00:07:55:

Oh, yes. They have vanilla cookies.

Redeem - 00:07:57:

That was like so sacred. By the time our second meal came in the morning, having that little vanilla cookie was really sweet.

Paul - 00:08:05:

Oh, God. And then, you know, it just started filling up. The gel started filling up. There was roaches in there. We slept on these slabs, these metal slabs that were really hard. I had to use my shoe as a pillow. It was bad in there. And just the cries, you know, there was people yelling, screaming. There was one guy. He kept screaming for help, help. No one came. And God, there was just people. But, you know, there was also a guy in there. He was telling jokes. Yeah.

Redeem - 00:08:40:


Paul - 00:08:43:

Yeah. Wow.

Redeem - 00:08:45:


Paul - 00:08:46:

That place seemed to be shut down. I felt like I was in a mental institute.

Redeem - 00:08:54:

Yeah, so DC Central Cell Block is a unique jail situation in that all the police forces, both from the DC Metropolitan District of Columbia, as well as all federal agencies that have arrest authority, customs and park police and whoever, Secret Service, you know, all these firearm, you know, all the Treasury Department has forces that can arrest. So if they're arresting anyone in DC, everyone's taken to DC Central Cell Block. And they're held there overnight. And as Redeem said, it was completely cockroach infested. It was the most disgusting thing. There was feces smeared on the wall. It was unsanitary. And yes, they did offer the juice. But while you were sleeping, Redeem slept. I did not sleep all night, but Redeem was able to get a few hours in. There was a phase in the middle of the night where they ran out of water. People were begging for water. So they, you know, they did get another supply by the morning. So, you know, there was generally, we were well hydrated. And then, of course, we were driven around for four hours the next morning, you know, like going from courthouse to courthouse. And it was complete confusion. They had more important cases to deal with and they didn't really want to deal with us at the court. But we got the runaround while we were handcuffed in a paddy wagon. So that was nasty.

Paul - 00:10:21:

It was painful.

Redeem - 00:10:22:

Yeah, painful for sure. So 22 hours total. What is the bottom line? Do you have a synthesis of a lesson that you garnered or something that occurred for you personally or spiritually about that experience?

Paul - 00:10:41:

Well, you know, here's the thing. You know, now that I reflect on it more and as I'm seeing the college students across the country who are getting arrested, the police are not here to protect us. Police are here to silence truth-tellers like you and me, the people who were on the fence. That's who they're here to silence. They're here to silence truth-tellers. They're here to protect the ruling class. All these months later, that's what I'm really getting out of all of this. We were speaking truth to power. All of us were unarmed. We looked unarmed. We looked like we...

Redeem - 00:11:28:

We were faith fighters. I was wearing my... You're Reverend Redeem Robinson. You're wearing your... And I had my Rabbi Kippah on my head and my skull cap and my peace cap, I call it. Yeah. So we were clearly faith leaders and.

Paul - 00:11:43:

Yeah. And, you know, the fact that they took us into jail, they thought, you know, we was in handcuffs for telling the truth, for speaking truth to power. And once again, that's what the police is here for. That's what they that's what that's their job is to silence truth-tellers. And also from the whole experience. It just really showed how incompetent police really are. The fact that nobody knew what was going on.

Redeem - 00:12:19:

Right. The next. Yeah, it was crazy.

Paul - 00:12:21:

The next day, nobody knew what was going on.

Redeem - 00:12:24:

Confidence. Right.

Paul - 00:12:24:

You can tell that the guards at the jail, they just hire any old body off the streets to do this type of work. And also looking at the jail, too. Yeah, DC is predominantly a Black City But, you know, when we look at cities across the country, it's mostly Black men that's in these jails. I've been arrested in Phoenix, Arizona, where Black people are 5% of the population. Meanwhile, overnight in Maricopa County 4th Avenue Jail, there are at least about 40, maybe 50% of all those who are in that jail is Black and Brown people.

Redeem - 00:13:12:

So a much larger percentage than the actual proportion of the population.

Paul - 00:13:17:

Yeah, it's a lot. It's a lot of Black people. And also, too, like when we looked at who was in those jails, not only was it Black and black men, but it was poor black men. Some of those people were actually unhoused. Some of those people was dealing with mental health issues. So, you know, once again, America is not interested in caring for people like you and I. They're not interested in actually providing for people. Their job is to throw people in jail to make money. America truly is a capitalistic country where they are literally we got people, the 1% who are making money off of people's incarceration. And it was evident at D.C. Central.

Redeem - 00:14:15:

Yeah, thank you for sharing that. I also had that awareness. I realized that night, you know, my son, one of my son's works on criminal justice reform, and he's brought me into jails before and showed me how unfair and taught me how unfair the criminal justice system is. He's involved in a campaign now to close Rikers Island. And so this was my first experience of being overnight in jail. And I was, I think I was the only white person in that came in. I was like up all night watching, watching all the traffic. And it was black and brown men. And They seemed to know each other, some of them. They came in in groups and they knew each other from, you know, wherever. And I was a listening friend hearing their stories. And they're really intelligent, very smart. They talked politics. They talked family. They talked relationship. And they talked, you know, like the circumstances that got them there. It was so sad, actually. And I was grief stricken about it, actually. And I felt really purified. It was so outrageous to me. I felt like we were on the right side of history. And we were taking a love-centered stand for climate justice and economic justice and racial justice. And we were calling on the president to do his job, basically. And we prayed for him. We sent them prayers to Jill and Joe for them to be awakened into and redeemed for their lack of leadership thus far. We have an existential threat with the climate emergency. And I thought it was so outrageous that we, you and me, Reverend and Paul, were in prison overnight. Under those circumstances for affixing a sign to the White House fence, which is a right of free speech and freedom of assembly. And it's a federal misdemeanor. As you say, the rules are written to suppress our voices and intimidate us. But people are rising in peaceful revolution. I think there's an intergenerational, interpartisan youth-led movement on climate. And I want to switch over now to get your take on election 2024. I know you're very active on advocacy for radical reparations, reparations. We've covered that on our show before with other experts, but happy to hear your views on that? And also getting out the vote and how you're operating on that and how you're seeing the threat of whatever threats you see and whatever opportunities you see for election 2024? Really want to hear your take on it, because I know you're really at the front line of mobilizing and catalyzing a potentially historic transformation.

Paul - 00:17:08:

So let me just share a little bit about the work that we're doing with All Souls Movement. We have a program called Vote by Faith, where we're mobilizing Black and Queer people of faith to get out and vote. It's totally nonpartisan. We're not telling people who to vote for, how to vote. We're just trying to get you information to vote and also share with others. If being a good steward of the planet is part of your faith tradition, if peace is part of your faith tradition, if love, justice and mercy is all part of your faith tradition, then we have a moral duty to vote because all those things are on the ballot. Like I said, we are totally nonpartisan. We don't tell people who to vote for and how to vote. We're not aligned with any political party or anything like that. We just want people of faith who share these same values to actually put your faith into action and actually vote. That type of thing. Now,

Redeem - 00:18:16:

Can I just ask you, are you organizing that all over the country or are you doing that in specific geographies or?

Paul - 00:18:23:

Yeah, we're doing that in a few couple of states, not in every state, but just in a few couple of states, mostly in predominantly Black and Brown communities. We're going into places that are often not heard. They're not touched. We're going to places that are not touched. So, like, we're trying to increase voter engagement in South Central L.A. You know, Arizona, New York is one place, Massachusetts, several different places. Utah. Utah is another place. Everyone thinks Utah is this like Mormon Mecca, which it is. But Salt Lake City, I would say the progressive community out there is growing. So that's another place that we're touching. And we also have black people in Salt Lake City that also, you know, we need we want to activate them. We want to put them to work and make sure that they're at the polls as well.

Redeem - 00:19:24:

Fantastic. That's great. What do you think is going on this election season? Some people think that we're fighting a fascist MAGA movement here in the United States. We have two candidates, Trump and Biden, who ran before against each other and they're running against each other again. We have one of the candidates in court, you know, all that craziness. And then we had a Democratic nominating process that was highly organized as a coronation process rather than an open democracy and an open competition between different voices. So I don't know. It's a very complex time. We're going to come back to Israel, Gaza. And the next part, you know, the next part of it. But that's also playing a role in the election 2024 and how that is playing out. So I'd love to hear your views of the risks that you see, like for political violence or constitutional crisis or coup attempt or whatever climate emergency, whatever you see, economic, you know, inequality, like just exploding, whatever flashpoints you see. And then, how should we respond? People are looking for guidance and direction in this very difficult time.

Paul - 00:20:45:

Yeah, this is... Hey, I'm just going to be straight and honest with you. This is probably the most unreal election that I've ever seen. It's just unreal. Like the fact that...And I'm not trying to sound like ages or anything, but the fact that we have two candidates that are... Joe Biden, he is over 80, right?

Redeem - 00:21:10:

Yeah, he's 81.

Paul - 00:21:11:

Yeah, he's 81. We have Donald Trump that's like pushing 80.

Redeem - 00:21:15:

He's 77, yeah.

Paul - 00:21:17:

77. So, you know, the fact that we have two older white guys who are very out of touch with America is just wild. And the fact that none of them are really campaigning. And the reason why I say I don't feel like any of them are campaigning, you have Biden, who seems to be obsessed with Trump. That's all he talked about. Trump this, Trump that, Trump this. But we're not hearing any deliverables. And then you have Trump, on the other hand, who is building his platform, his base by fear mongering. So, this is the most unreal election I've ever seen. And I feel like America is being played. We're caught. Your average everyday person is caught between two old rich white guys. And we're in, it's like we're in a group chat with them going at each other. And meanwhile, we're not getting anything out of this. We are being tugged around and being told from Biden's people, you need to be on my side because that guy over there, he's dangerous. And he's trying to take your rights. And he's going to do this. He's going to do that. And then you have Trump, on the other hand, he's tugging on people, talking about, you need to be on my side because that guy, he's an illegal. And he's going to do this and he's going to do that. And I'm like, there is no real substance here. This is unreal. This is fake. That's the only thing I can think of this election. It's just unreal. And so, and I'm now, you know, say this here, Dr. Cornel West, who is running as an independent, he said with Trump, we're going to get a civil war. And with Biden, we're going to get a world war. And so we're in a bad situation here. And I think right now we're in a political moment where a revolution is actually starting, where people are actually waking up and they're like, I'm tired of this. Every four years, I'm tired of this. I'm tired of option A being bad and Option B just pandering and not really doing anything. Almost everyone I'm talking to, there's a lot of people I'm talking to. Especially when we're talking about getting people out to vote and stuff like that. I'm seeing a lot of apathy, voter apathy. And it's really sad that it's gotten like that. And, you know, I used to be the type of person that will shame people into voting. And I'm not doing that no more. Because they are right. What am I voting for? Now, don't get me wrong. I think everyone needs to vote locally because that's where I, me personally, now, well, not even me personally. I think we can all say that we see a lot of changes on a local level, when it comes to voting. But when it comes to the top, I can't blame people for saying, they're going to leave the ballot either blank. They're not voting at all. Or they're going to vote for third party.

Redeem - 00:25:11:

Yeah, so they're looking for alternatives.

Paul - 00:25:13:

They're looking for alternatives.

Redeem - 00:25:14:

Yeah. So what do you think is underneath the apathy that you're observing? Is it skepticism? I have a sense myself, but I think I've talked to other people, there's a sense of betrayal. The government has betrayed our trust. Both of these candidates, for example, or both of them have served as president and neither of them have fulfilled on their own commitments. They have no integrity to their oath, especially Donald Trump, who doesn't even believe in the rule of law. So and the fact that he's even eligible, you know, is this a sign? So quickly, I'll say from my perspective, my diagnosis is that we have constitutional rot. And the system of government was written 237 years ago by white male oligarch slave owners. It was a caste system. It was designed to oppress people of color, women, indigenous people. And it's still working very effectively as it was designed. And it's breaking down now. And the system is not meeting the needs of the American people. And we're seeing, we'll talk about this next, the Palestinian liberation movement. We're seeing the climate emergency movement, both going into direct action. If we can get racial equity, women's movement, LGBTQ rights movement, child rights movement, reproductive rights movement, all those movements moving into direct action, then we do have the potential of having a peaceful revolution as a response to the violence and destruction that this other system is leading us towards. That's option one, lesser of two evils, Biden versus Trump. And Biden would be the lesser of two evils if you had to pick. That's what I would say, if that's our only two options. But why is that, why are we satisfied with that? So I think we need to unlock our political imagination. And my colleagues and I at Unify and other partners are calling for an open convention, as Ezra Klein and other political commentators have called for, to have a real open debate where Cornel West and Kamala Harris and Marianne Williamson and all the different candidates, Bobby Kennedy Jr. could compete in an open democratic process. We would actually hear ideas about the future. Can you imagine if we would actually experience democracy? And I also believe we need to be prepared for extra constitutional, constitutional renewal and transformation. If this whole system implodes in violence and chaos, then we need to have the new way that we want to operate, you know, ready to go. So that's what I'm readiness, you know, for when that confluence can happen. Where we can transform ourselves. You know, that's what I'm imagining. So, anyway.

Paul - 00:28:26:

No, yeah, you're totally right. And I'm very actually nervous about November. Trump's people have already showed us what they're capable of. You know, America is it's just not in a good place. I mean, like we're we're in such a bad place where calling for peace can get you fired. It can get you beat up by the LAPD or any other city police. It can it can cost you a lot. It can get you. This is even this is even the worst part. Calling for peace can actually get you dragged out of a church. And what I'm talking about, I'm talking about when Joe Biden spoke at Mother Emanuel AME Church in South Carolina and where young protesters went in there and called for a ceasefire and was dragged out and where people were chanting four more years. I mean, we're just in a bad place altogether. And so, yeah, so-

Redeem - 00:29:35:

Talk about the Israel Gaza situation and how you see the Palestinian liberation movement and how that relates to the movement for racial equity and racial justice or reparations or all the issues that you work on. How do these things intersect in your mind? And what are you seeing on the ground at the front line of the movements?

Paul - 00:30:01:

Yeah, so for many years, Palestinian Black Liberation has always been like this. You know, when we talk about the oppression that the Palestinians face is almost very similar to what is taking place in America. What has been taking place in America. We have always found like organizations like the Black Panther Party has always been down for Palestinian liberation. Other abolitionist groups have also been for Palestinian liberation because what they see is an oppressed people being kicked out of their land, out of their homes. They're being boxed in pretty much in outdoor prisons. They are being ostracized by the police, heavily, heavily militarized police. And we have white people, white evangelicals in America telling people that pretty much, literally, this is pretty much what they're telling people is that the Palestinians are the devil and that the people of Israel are God's chosen people and all of this. And I don't think people really realize how harmful that language is. You're pretty much telling people that the people of Israel are pretty much like a master race. And so we can't talk about white supremacy in America, but we're allowing Israel to bombard murder, and just do whatever to the Palestinian people. It's the same thing that has happened to the indigenous people here in America. We came in, killed them, took their land, rape their women. Like, just... It's the same thing. It's the same thing how other countries have went into Africa, into different African nations. Stole their land, enslaved their people, raped their women, indoctrinated them. It's the same thing that's happening here in Puerto Rico. And the more I spend time here, the more I learn how evil the United States really is. The United States came in here, just did all kinds of crazy things. Took the land, indoctrinated the people. And so all of these things. When we look at what is happening in Gaza, that's why all of these nations and oppressed people can relate to what is happening in Gaza. Lastly, let me just share this, too. I saw in the comments sections, I was looking at something. It was in a Black group on Facebook. And, you know, they was talking about how Black leaders were standing for Gaza. And it was at a protest. Someone had commented, a Black person had commented, talking about what does that have to do with the Black community? And I'm like, that actually has a lot to do with the Black community. So when we talk about police brutality in our neighborhood, especially like Los Angeles, who do you think, who do you think is training the LAPD, the NYPD and all these other heavily militarized police departments? It's the IDF. Yes. Yeah. Like police actually go to Israel for training. They train cops and they come back even more militarized. So when we talk about police brutality, yeah, that intersects what is happening in Gaza. When we talk about reparations, that's another topic I'm very passionate about. Reparations, health care, college tuition, tuition free colleges. You know, it's so funny that we always ask how we're going to pay for that. How are we going to pay for universal health care? How are we going to pay for reparations? How are we going to pay for tuition free college? I mean, this is the same country that that lost its. When we're talking about clearing up student loan debt for millions of Americans. But when we talk about sending $95 billion, $95 billion to other countries for military aid, nobody asks questions.

Redeem - 00:34:46:

Nobody blinks, yeah.

Paul - 00:34:47:

Nobody. And, like, this is wild to me. Like, we just sent Israel another $26 billion. Meanwhile, a debt for reparations hasn't been paid. Meanwhile, we still got people that can't afford simple health care.

Redeem - 00:35:05:

People are struggling, yes, to pay their rent.

Paul - 00:35:07:

Yeah. And we got bridges falling apart. Have you all been to, look at Skid Row in Los Angeles. Look at all these other places where homelessness is rising. Yeah, homelessness is rising. Everybody is almost becoming homeless. Like when people here in Puerto Rico ask me, where am I from? I tell them I'm from LA. And they're like, how come there's so many homeless people out there? What's going on out there? You all have a lot of homeless people. And I meet other people from other countries, too, out here, like a lot, like Brazil, Europe. And the first thing they always ask, why do you all have so many homeless people? Meanwhile, we just sent Ukraine, a bunch of money. We just sent Israel billions of dollars. This is ridiculous. And so, like, people are seeing this, especially young people. The people that put Joe Biden into office. They're seeing this. And they're this November. I could tell you right now, especially after college students have been beating up students, especially after police have been beating up students and faculty at these universities. You can kiss Gen Z and the young vote goodbye. The Democrats, they lost it. It's over with. You send all these countries billions of dollars while these students are being beat up. They can't afford health care. They got more bills than they got money. It's ridiculous. And America is about to collapse. We're looking, we're literally seeing America is about to implode. It's just the political landscape is just falling apart. Capitalism has everybody down, which is causing everyone's mental health to be in shambles. So I'm just like, America has fallen apart.

Redeem - 00:37:13:

Yeah. So thank you for sharing that. I have a similar sense and that's why I have felt so driven to offer Revolutionary Optimism as a path forward, because I do feel like we're going through some kind of passage. There will be disruptions. We can't predict everything. We're moving into a lot of uncertainty. We had the COVID disruption and now we're seeing economic disruptions and the wars and all these things. There's a lot of disruption. The climate emergency is surely disrupting things. And so it's so important to build local community and social resilience, build up our own capacities to manage this together. You know, we're not alone. And, you know, that's where I'm really hoping to contribute some response. The question is, everything you say, how do we respond to that? How do we rise? How do we see this dire moment of peril that you described and flip it into a great moment of hope and possibility. That's the opportunity that I see. And I want to thank you for your leadership, being at the front line, mobilizing these communities who may not, who may be overwhelmed with apathy, and you're awakening them to their, to the opportunity and their responsibility, as you said. You called it a moral responsibility to participate in our political process. And even in spite of the bad choices, there's still ways to engage and to use your voice to participate and also to transform the system, right? So there's many different pathways for how to respond. And you and I are doing all those things, you know, so. Anyway, I appreciate you so much. And thanks so much for being on the podcast that we look forward to following your work and and supporting you in the days and months ahead. So have a great week.

Paul - 00:39:21:

Yes, thank you for having me.

Redeem - 00:39:30:

Thanks so much for listening to that wonderful conversation with my friend and colleague, Reverend Redeem Robinson. Redeem is an amazing revolutionary optimist. I shared a jail cell with him and a process of 22 hours when we were fighting for President Biden to declare a climate emergency last fall. We've connected since then on voter rights and our joint advocacy on reparations and truth-telling and our shared commitment to support peaceful coexistence amongst Israelis and Palestinians and to support the Palestinian Liberation Movement as part of that. He is really at the front lines of activism with Black and Brown and other marginalized communities in Puerto Rico, in Massachusetts, in Arizona, in Utah, California. He really has a footprint across the country. And so watch out for Redeem Robinson. He's part of the and leading the All Souls Movement. And I think that's exactly what we need right now in our peaceful revolution. So thanks. Have a great week.

Announcer - 00:40:48:

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