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Interface is a podcast where we connect technology and culture through conversation. Interface is brought to you by EMPOWER at PROS. EMPOWER is dedicated to attracting, developing and retaining Black talent at PROS. PROS helps people and companies outperform by enabling smarter selling in the digital economy.
From Engineer to Entrepreneur: The Journey of SpendDebt feat. Kiley Summers
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[00:00:00] Jenni: Welcome to Interface, a podcast where we connect technology and culture through Conversation Interface is brought to you by Empower. At Pros, empower is dedicated to attracting, [00:01:00] developing, and retaining black talent. At Pros, pros helps people and companies outperform by enabling smarter selling in the digital economy.
I'm one of your hosts, Jenny Plumer. I'm joined with Matthew Negro. I always feel like I had to put an accent on there. And our guest today is Kylie Summers, founder of Spin Debt. Welcome to the podcast.
[00:01:22] Kiley Summers: Oh, I appreciate you guys having me. Uh, pleasure to meet, uh, both of you, and I'm looking forward to today's discussion.
[00:01:31] Jenni: Yes, it'd be awesome. Um, definitely was, you know, looking through your, um, posts on LinkedIn and, and, um, various social media about FinTech i in Houston, which I'd like to hear a lot more about. Um, uh, also mentioned of Bank America. Of Bank of America Business Breakthrough Lab. So I wanna know all about that, but can we start out with your origin story?
How did you get to be, uh, you [00:02:00] know, how did you become passionate about the things you, you are passionate about and what was, what's your story?
[00:02:09] Kiley Summers: Oh, that's a, that's a loaded question. Um, but it's a, it's a necessary question. Um, what I would tell you is, just like anybody, you know, we always have our first experience through somebody else's lenses, right. Or lens. And my first experience with money, um, as a FinTech founder was through my mom. Single mother of, of three, three boys.
I'm the middle of three, and I watch her, you know, uh, Rob Peter to pay Paul to make ends meet, to, to make, do four. My brothers and I, and you know, as I matriculated through life, um, be became the first generation college graduate in the family, you know, life started for me and I had my introduction to money.
And, um, you know, thinking about the sacrifices my mom made to put me in the [00:03:00] position that I was in at that time, um, I began to, it, it began just to resonate with me. And so year after graduating from college, you know, between my, my then girlfriend, but now wife, uh, we accumulate over 140 plus thousand dollars of consumer debt.
And so she comes from the same humble beginnings that, that I, um, I, I come from. And so just thinking about reliving our parents' generation, that was on our, our minds. And, and so, um, that started this journey in, in wanting to become debt free so we can live a different lifestyle. Um, the lifestyle that we were, you know, working to, uh, to have.
And what our mother's sacrificed for is to have. Um, and so seven and a half years later, uh, we became debt free. Uh, and once we became debt free, uh, we, uh, we started to tell family and friends about our story and we [00:04:00] realized it was other people suffering from consumer debt and we wanted to help them.
And so God planted this idea in my head to help people spend money and pay off debt at the same time. And with that idea, um, we begin to, uh, follow. I ignored it at first, uh, but it came back. Uh, a guy has a funny way of, of getting your attention. Uh, and then, uh, we, we began to follow it on top of 2016. We, we began to follow it as a company and, and to, to LLC it and, and begin to kind of build out, you know, what, what spin is today.
So, um, you know, uh, it's a lot, um, you know, other inputs that I'm sure that we'll get to as we have the discussion today, but, um, holistically that is the origin story on how we got started in kinda what we doing today.
[00:04:50] Jenni: Well, congrats on being debt free. Um, you mentioned you are first generation college, um, so what did you, [00:05:00] you know, what did you study in, in school, um, and why?
[00:05:06] Kiley Summers: Uh, very good question. Um, and, uh, my daughter's gonna help me tell this story as well here in the background, but, uh, I am an electrical engineer, uh, by degree. And, uh, how did I land on engineering? Electrical engineering. I'll tell you, it was because of, of my high school, junior, senior year. I participated in the class, uh, took a.
Uh, electronics class, and we were building like little odds and ends, a little shock toy, uh, a car, and just all these little fun kits that you can buy, right? And you can sort the pieces onto the, the, the, the, uh, um, the, the board. And, and I found interest in that, uh, you know, Newton's law, the, you know, vultures equals, you know, the resistance times, the uh, uh, current, like I like.
So it, [00:06:00] all those things, it was just like, I like this stuff. And, and I took the second part of that class in high school and I fell in love with it. And I was like, I don't know what else I would do in, in college or majoring in college. I was like, engineering sounds intriguing. I like to solve problems, you know, I like this electronics class, electrical engineering.
It is. And so, um, yeah, that, that's really how I settled on becoming a, an electrical engineer. Um, but I would say this post. Uh, college, or even guess during college, I found that it was interesting like doing all of the kind of the true technical engineering stuff, but I didn't have a true passion for that part of it because I felt like it was, it was so isolating.
It was so, like, in this box, being this scientist and my personality, that wasn't a good fit for me. And so I, you know, college is more about learning about yourself, right? [00:07:00] As well as learning kind of this domain expertise. And so understanding more about myself, learning this domain expertise, I was like, okay, how can I take this domain expertise, uh, this, this not knowledge and applied in the field that, you know, I can utilize who I.
And manufacturing became that, um, that go to market, if you will, for my degree, for me, that I felt like I had a greater chance of having a successful career. And so I began to take internships. Um, and, you know, ultimately, you know, once, once I graduated, I got offered, uh, a full-time opportunity in, in manufacturing engineering.
[00:07:38] Jenni: Okay. And so, so you got electrical engineering. Yeah. The manufacturing. Um, did that help you in, in founding your company in any way?
[00:07:53] Kiley Summers: I, I think everything works for your good, right? And, and it's like, it's like, it's like, you know, [00:08:00] the, the, the, the, the story of watching my mom, me finding out about who I am in college, me learning the domain expertise of being an engineer, but then when you get, and you start to work in that,
[00:08:13] Jenni: Mm-hmm.
[00:08:14] Kiley Summers: A lot of things happen, right?
You, you're forming this whole identity of being, doing this adulting thing, right? Um, but very specific to the job. Um, it's a lot of problems you have to solve. Not only technical problems, but there's also people problems because I walked into a professional career out the gate as a manager managing, you know, um, the operations.
And so it's about getting, or, you know, getting results through people. Um, and so with that, it's being able to identify opportunities, uh, within the, the, the processes and systems and being able to communicate what those are, uh, and being able to get [00:09:00] people interested enough to help you solve them. And so from that standpoint, absolutely.
Um, you know, I learned a lot, but from the business side, you get to understand like, Understand what KPIs are or you know, key performance indicators, or they call them KPMs, key performance, uh, metrics or measures like you, you begin to understand what financials are like. Did we make money, did we lose money?
Where are those, you know, the operation inefficiencies, where do they lie? So you get to hear all these things, right? While, you know, being a part of a, a a, a corporate company, I work for Pepsi Fri, so we were making chips. So we, you know, most people just know, Hey, lemme get a bag of chips, lemme Dorito Cheeto. Um, but it's right. And so like you get to see the other side of that, it's like, oh my God. It's like, it's some, it's some, it's some real business here. And so like, I, I took all of, all of that, the [00:10:00] operational part, the business part, uh, the, the technical part of, of my job at times and different roles that I had and all that, you know, contributed to, you know, building.
[00:10:13] Mattie: Uh, great. That was actually what I was, I was curious about connecting the dots. So you told us about your passions and consumer debt, like, uh, getting rid of that, and then your background, electrical engineering. Can you talk more about the pivot from electrical engineering into the, the finance realm? Um, and like how much expertise do you have to know or did you have to kind of learn?
I'm always interested in when people like career pivots.
[00:10:44] Kiley Summers: Yeah. Very, very good. Very good question. Um, look, I don't have a finance background. Uh, and welcome Iris, uh, summers to the show. Uh, don't, I don't have a finance background and, and I, and I won't pretend to [00:11:00] have a finance background. But what I, what I do have though is, is, is personal experience with, with my own finances and, and watching people close to me, um, watching people close to me, you know, deal with finances.
And so that is what I, I have used in an approach to, to solving or to build spend debt. Um, um, and more, more, I guess particular in the, the idea of, of launching spend at was you, you have, you have debt, you want to get out that, that personal finance, what do we do? You know, it is like, either we gotta go make more money, have more income, right?
Or, or we need to reduce kind of the expenses that we. Um, and so it, that's really, you know, what it came down to is take inventory of of, of our personal thing. It was less about the technical stuff, it was less about the engineering. It, it was less about all of that stuff, [00:12:00] right? It was more about like really like taking a deep dive into the prop.
And I think my analytical mining engineering, you know, gave us, gave us ability to, to kinda think through, my wife and I kinda think through how to go about analyzing a problem, putting everything up, you know, on the board, and then being able to do process of elimination of, of, of tactics to take to help resolve our, our issue.
So, um, hopefully that, that kind of give you an insight lens of our approach to the problem, um, uh, versus kind of using this exact engineering that we learned in school to approach it. I, it, it was some of that, but it wasn't as high tech as, you know, one may think or thought it was.
[00:12:47] Jenni: Right. So how do you define your role in the company? I know you founded it, but like on a daily basis, like, you know what, what is, you know, what is your responsibilities? You know, what, what does that [00:13:00] entail?
[00:13:02] Kiley Summers: Uh, that's a great question. Look, um, you wear many hats. I'm sure you guys probably do the same thing. You wear, you wear many hats. Um, but, but as I, you know, as time has went on, as this journey has, you know, continued to progress, I found myself more on the technical side. Uh, and I tell you, like I, I've always in my career never wanted to be technical, but I find myself on the technical side.
And then what I mean by the technical side is, is product like head of product. That that is where, that's the hat that I, I, I enjoy wearing, believe it or not. Um, because it's the, it's the idea of you take nothing, you know, you know nothing, and you build something that the world can use and the ideation process, you know, uh, you know, the ui, ux part of it, and then you have the backend to tie it all together, and then you put it out to get a [00:14:00] response from the world.
That is fascinating. That is so fascinating. You know what I, this is what I would relate it to, and people always say this, growing the business is like raising children, right? They start off being a hundred percent dependent upon you, right? And then as time goes on, we work them into become indi independence, right?
And, and by and think about the taxes. The taxes say that they are dependent until they hit a certain age, right? So it's the same process. So the business is. A, uh, a hundred percent dependent upon you right in the beginning until you until you have capital, until you have customers, right? And so, uh, it's this, it's says this evolution.
And so I've been able to, to watch this thing be, you know, from, uh, a idea that God gave me and being able to just kinda knit on it and knit on it and kni on until be, became a, a [00:15:00] real company and then became a real functioning tool that people are using. And now to have customers and now to get capital, and now to get feedback in the marketplace, and now to watch people have success, that is, that is an honor.
So to, in short, I would say head of product is what I most enjoy, and I didn't think that I would, but that's kind of the, the, the role that I, I I, I serve in the most and I love serving in.
[00:15:31] Mattie: I love the, uh, The, the metaphor of of running a business like a, a child, as you have a child coming in and out of the, the frame, and then relating that back to you even more is you run this business with your wife. Um, can you or your partner, can you talk about kind of what that's like? You know, every advice that I hear is don't run a business with your partner.
Um, so how's that been? Uh, here's your chance. You know, like, shout out or [00:16:00] really, whatever you want to.
[00:16:01] Kiley Summers: Oh, now look, I'm gonna tell you, I am who I am, you know, in, in, in, in this, uh, part of my life because of my wife. Uh, and like, shout out to Tisha Summers, my co-pilot, uh, life partner, um, the mother of our children, my wife. Like, she sees everything. And, um, you know, look, I would've, I look, I told my wife. I told my wife this, I told her that I never wanted to work with my, my significant other.
I told her this very early on in our relationship. Here we are, 15 plus years post-college, building a company together. And what I would tell you today is I should have started 15 years ago working with her. Cause it has been a treat, not only to work with my wife, [00:17:00] but to be able to be present in my kids life every day and, and have them a part of the process.
Look, you know, I'm black, I'm African American. The way I grew up, this was not a norm. I didn't see this. I wasn't a part of this. I come from a broken home. Um, but both of my daughters, I have an older, my oldest daughter, she's seven. I started the business at the same time we had her, she had the opportunity to go to every bank around Houston with me, every pitch session that I had.
She has been in a room with some powerful and most connected people in this city. And, and I am grateful for that because she's gotten exposure, an exposure expands expectations, the things that she's heard, the people that she has met. It has changed how she think about adulting at, [00:18:00] at the age of seven.
And so I'm most excited to be able to have this opportunity to build a company with my wife and also share the opportunity to, to develop and build a company with my kids. Um, being a part of the process, um, with, with this is common. I'm not sure if you guys, uh, you know, follow, uh, uh, um, um, well, I'm sure you do.
Um, We thinking about Prince Diana and, and just kind of like the, the hierarchy, right? They show pictures of the past, and I mean, even now, uh, we, we, you know, like, um, queen Elizabeth, like, just, just how impactful that is to see the, the kids as a part of growing up, uh, in, in the family business, right? We wanna give our kids that same opportunity and, and why not be able to have that opportunity to do that?
And, and so [00:19:00] anyway, um, to answer, you know, to the question, uh, Maddie, like it's, it's been a joy. It's been a joy to work with my wife and I, I wouldn't change that.
[00:19:10] Mattie: I'm sure she's gonna love enjoying listening to that. So some, uh, brownie points for you.
[00:19:17] Jenni: A and I, I love that exposure expands expectations because um, yeah, I think even, even like, I think like my father had a pretty interesting career, but I don't know if it's cuz it was with the government or whatever, but he'd come home and I had no clue what he worked on. But, you know, going back and kind of looking at some of the things he's involved in.
Wow. That's very interesting things. And I feel like if you're having same things, if, if you're, if, if you're having conversations with your family about, you know, what's in the news right now, but also sharing what you do as profession kind of gives 'em a headstart to understanding how the business world works, how your professional life is gonna work, how, you know, socializing, [00:20:00] networking with people is an important factor of, you know, their adult lives, right?
For, for, for the, for the most, you know, most of their lives. And pulling them with you or bringing them along with you, I think is a big part of getting them a heads up. I, I always think of like, um, Mary Kate and Ashley Olsen, the Olsen twins, right? They were like Walmart moguls, and people were, and they were kind of like running a company at like 18, 20 years old.
You know, don't fact check me on the, as a very young people. And at first you're like, well, how do they know how to do that? And you're like, well, they've been in the meetings. They know how to, you know, how to negotiate a deal. They, you know, they're. For, for a normal person, yeah, for a normal 16 year old, that's not something one would normally be exposed to, but since that's been their lives, they, they have that experience.
[00:20:50] Kiley Summers: Uh, look in, in Indeed. I, I, I, you know, I have two daughters. I'm a, I'm a girl dad. For all the girl dads out there that's listening. Uh, shout out. To you guys. [00:21:00] Um, being a girl, dad and I, we have an affirmation that I, I have them say a seven year old, we say it before she gets out the car, before I drop off at school.
And then when I'm, you know, uh, in the morning when I'm done bathing and, and brushing my, my two year old's, uh, teeth and, and washing her face, we say, I am black. I am brilliant, and I am beautiful. Here's why this matters. This matters for a lot of reasons, but the number one reason that I want to make sure that they can look themselves in the mirror and say, this is the confidence.
So, being in that boardroom, being in student council as a young kid or being over a girl Scouts or whatever they are a part of, maybe they don't get it right, but it's okay to not get it right. What, what, what's important for me, for them in that situation is them to have the confidence. In that moment that they can do anything and be what God desire for them to be.[00:22:00]
That is important and that is why, um, I am excited to be building a company. Why we don't know what's going to happen, um, in the future, but in the moment we're building confidence in them that they can go do and be what I created them to be. And, and that's, that is what I'm excited about. And, and so kids need confidence.
I don't care where you are in the world, kids need confidence and that's, this is what my wife and I are establishing with, with our two young girls.
[00:22:32] Jenni: Yeah, totally agree.
[00:22:37] Mattie: I was gonna ask if you could talk more to the business and kind of what problems you're solving, um, at like a less of a high level and more of more concrete.
[00:22:49] Kiley Summers: Yeah, a absolutely. So, so for those I, I haven't even really introduced Spina. Let me, let me, let me take a moment to kind of digress for a second and just, well, what is Spina? Right? Spin [00:23:00] is a financial technology company on a mission to help save a million families from financial fatalities every time they swipe a debit card or have a banking transaction.
And we do that using our application that can be found in both app stores. So Google and the uh, uh, apple store. Or you can find us on the url url, spin it.com. But a user will come to our platform. They will create a profile. They'll link the bank account they want to pay from, such as their Bank of America Checkins account.
Then they tell us the debt account they want to pay. We can pay any consumer debt. So, so let's say even Iris knows, let's say it was, uh, their student loans that, that they wanted to pay me. Um, and the last step, uh, you define the micropayment anything greater than 50 cents. So let's call it a dollar for today's example.
After that, you begin spending. So let's take Sarah. Sarah goes to store with [00:24:00] faithfully. She loves her cappuccino. Uh, she, she sophisticated, but she liked that cup of coffee every day. But it's $5 using spend at automatically. $1 is added to that transaction. $5 would go to Starbucks, $1 would go towards Sarah's student loan.
Over the course of the month, we aggregate all of her transactions and send a one-time payment to our student loan debt automatically on her behalf every month. So that is, you know, really the mission of Spend Debt. That is how spend debt works. And I will tell you, um, you know, given some quick data points, we weren't averaging nearly $17 a month to help people pay against their consumer debt.
We're paying student loans, credit cards, auto loans, furniture, debt, buy now, pay later. We're paying a lot of different consumer debts on behalf of our consumers, even child support, which is a big deal. Um, as well as as, as well as, um, we, we are able to help them, uh, average, um, almost $800 [00:25:00] annually. And so, um, we're having impact in family lives and it is, uh, amazing to, to be able to support people in their financial journey, uh, and allow and help them achieve their goals and the goals.
Uh, well, and, and Maddie, your question is, your question was, um, uh, more specifically just kind of going in depth, uh, in depth about, about the business. Um, how else can I answer that question? I feel like I, I touched on, but I wanna make sure I did get to all the questions that you
[00:25:34] Jenni: that's why we have multiple hosts. Cause I'm like, well, how is it, how is this structured? Do you know you have the mobile app team, do you have a Android team versus, uh, an Apple team? Um, you, you talked about pro, you know, being head of products, you know, product management, usability. Um, that's where my brain is going.
But I, I don't know if that's exactly what Maddy might be thinking about, um,
[00:25:58] Kiley Summers: Well,
a,[00:26:00]
[00:26:00] Jenni: and figuring out how to, how to, um, productize that idea.
[00:26:11] Kiley Summers: uh, so. From a backend perspective. So just let, we're gonna talk the technical side of, of around like how we, you know, built, uh, built the team. And so, um, you know, we building any company you need, you need capital and you need finances in order to achieve the, the result that you want, unless you have that internal skill.
I'm not a coder. I didn't, I didn't develop it, right? And so we had to go recruit that and we had to go pay for that. And so we're really starting out. We just had one individual building, um, but we, you know, we, we outgroup him. Um, and now we have a firm and we've been through a couple firms, right? Um, just trying to find the best fit for us.
Um, so if you're building an app out there, you look for support. It's, it's about finding the best fit for, you know, [00:27:00] what you're doing and, uh, and your style. Uh, we use an framework in terms of, you know, Running sprints to help, you know, achieve whether it's different milestones we have, it's, it's features and functions that we're, we're trying to add to the application.
Um, that's, that's what we use. Uh, in terms of our, our, our structure from our, our, our contracted team. Um, as well as, you know, it, it, it, it's always hard to, when you have a vision, to get others to see your vision, it takes time to get those things instituted. And, and it's a, it's a lot of work to, to show and to get people, uh, to see that.
And so, um, what I would say from, from the technology side, we spent a lot of time, we we're on our third or fourth iteration and now we spent at, because of, you know, things change, markets change, technology has changed. The [00:28:00] different APIs we are using have changed. And, and so being able to, you know, develop and get the right team, that was the kinda the first objective.
But then too, casting that vision of where you wanna be, uh, in, in, in chunks. So in milestones, but then ultimately, hey, what does it look like long term? Uh, and so now that we have that established, we have a great working model, a great agile environment in order to, you, uh, continue to the milestones to product to assist people.
Again, that's why we, to help.
[00:28:40] Mattie: Yeah, that's great. The, your model kind of reminds me of Acorns where, you know, you set up percentage, or I think maybe you, you buy something, it's a dollar 56 and then you round up to the nearest dollar and that goes into an investment account. Um, can you talk more about that business model? So I think with Acorns they might [00:29:00] take a percentage, or there's a subscription fee or some, um, management of those investment funds.
What's the business model?
[00:29:08] Kiley Summers: Yeah. So, uh, you know, shout out to, um, bank of America, shout out to, you know, companies in, in FinTech companies like Acorns. I think you learn what's in the marketplace. And, and Dana, John always says this, the, the shark, he always says, there's nothing new under the sun, right? There's nothing new under the sun.
And so you quickly, Bank of America has, uh, what they call a Bank of America, or they had to keep the have to keep the change program, and they was kind of like the, um, the first to market with this type of, uh, financial technology, uh, methodology, right? To your point, Maddie, when you spend, uh, something, you buy something for a dollar 50 automat rounds up to the nearest dollar and takes that difference and put it into a savings account.
The same thing with Acorns, right? Instead of going into the savings, they have a spend and invest [00:30:00] platform where you can invest that, that spare change into, you know, um, into your investment account with them. Um, we wanted to create a, a spend and pay, uh, category because time, there was nothing out there allowed people to spend and pay off debt at the same time.
You can spend and save, you can spend an event, but nothing to allow people to spend and pay. And so, um, acorns and the, and the likes of Bank of America, and most banks have, uh, kind of this same, um, type of a savings program. They use to your point, a roundup method and we, we call ours a micropayment or an add-on method, meaning we give the control to the consumer.
We're not leaving it up to the, the cost of the cup of coffee or the cost of the transaction to then, you know, round up. We want you to know, to do the mental accounting to say, you know what? Every time I swipe a debit card, or every time an Amazon pull that transaction outta my account, I know a extra dollar is gone.
Or, you know, a $5 or, or 50 cents, you can set that [00:31:00] micropayment. So that is our differentiator amongst, you know, these spending invests or spend and save platforms. So that's how we differentiate ourselves in the marketplace by giving the consumer their control. Um, and it's really about the, the mental accounting and the mental math that we want them to be able to do based on their behavior economics.
But if we talk about the business model, how we make money, it's a bit different. Um, um, we charge, uh, $3 and 99 cents. Subscription fee, um, uh, every month on behalf of our, our consumers. And so that, that's how we bank money. Um, I will say for maybe some small business, a doctor's office or a medium sized business could be a, uh, a dental practice, uh, or, or a company that may have a, um, a customer base, um, that they, you know, they collect the accounts receivable front.
Our Micropayment, um, solution is now being, um, utilized in the B2B [00:32:00] space, meaning we are now helping companies recover accounts receivables, um, every time their customers have a, uh, uh, a banking transaction. So what does that look like? So, if you are a utility company, as an example, you know, obviously they, they collect their monthly bills every day from the, from their end customers.
Well, they can now use, spend it as a new payment option to help them recover those accounts receivables. Um, you today, you can pay by cash, creditor, debit bill pay, uh, mail in the check or what have you. Um, you can still use those legacy or traditional payment methods and you can use spend debt to make those payments.
Um, we are developing these business relationships and selling our, our payment technology, our market payment technology for these companies to use. Um, and, and it's all being able to provide choice and flexibility in the marketplace, um, that is conducive with what [00:33:00] consumers want. Um, and last thing I'll say here, when we see the surge in, in fintechs around the world, and one of the leading, uh, products is to count the buy now pay.
Now pay later is huge. Uh, and it's being, you know, it's being, uh, placed in all industries, even medical and healthcare, believe it or not. So you can now use it to, to get your, your teeth fixed or to, you know, have that surgery. Um, and, and so it's a payment choice that people are opting for because it helps 'em solve that financial problem in their household.
And so we wanna be able to add our payment solution to give people more flexibility and choice, uh, as it as relates to them paying that, that light bill or, or paying that, that hospital bill that they have. And so that's the business model, but there's also other utility utilities, or I should say, use cases and how spinning is being used today.
[00:33:58] Jenni: So what advice would you have [00:34:00] for people that, um, Have their own ideas, um, to found a company or to get into the FinTech space.
[00:34:11] Kiley Summers: That's a very, very, very good question. Um, what advice is so much, it's so much out there, but what I will say, look, as much as technology has evolved as much as, um, we have, uh, access to information, um, the advice I would say, if there is something that you could think of in your head, begin to flush that thought out.
But if it's a business that you want to start, begin to flush it out. Um, use YouTube University. Um, start to take that idea, put it on paper. And go attract the necessary things you need, you think you need in order to stand up that, that FinTech company or stand up that, that business that you [00:35:00] have. Um, the advice I would, I would, I would give is utilize the tools that are in the marketplace today to build what you want and go far.
I mean, excuse me. Go fast so you can go far. Um, and it's okay to fail. Don't feel like you can't fail. Um, and this is something that, you know, I wish, this is advice right here. I wish I would've got because I feel like I couldn't fail. I feel like I had to work. Um, but it's okay to fail. If you think about all the great innovators in the world, they've all failed along their journey.
We look at. Mark Zuckerberg was failing, but he was, you know, breaking through glass ceilings at the same time. Him not being able to, uh, you know, have, uh, or him, you know, having the, the, the security at Harvard, right? And, and, you know, that was kind of restricting him from doing the things he wanted to do.
He ended up having to circumvent that and he kept hidden, but they finally, he broke out of that. Once he saw that he went to other schools and then he went to, you know, [00:36:00] outside the, the point is, is you gonna hit a ceiling and that's okay. You gonna feel like you fail, but just keep, just keep going. Just keep, just keep going.
Um, and, and use the tools. Fail fast. Uh, and the, the, the, the last, uh, bit of advice is if you, if you don't do it, who will, if you don't do a, who will? Um, and I say this because, um, a wise man once said, if you. Don't step into what God called you to do. You can make a whole generation miss their blessing.
Lemme say that again. If you don't step into what God has called you to do, that vision, that idea, that nudge you're getting, uh, if you don't step into doing that thing and making it real for the world, you can make a whole generation. It's a blessing. And so [00:37:00] it is impactful that you take an idea and you, you think about it and figure out how to get it to market, how to put it easy.
And every idea won't get there. I get that too. Yeah. But if you don't start that first idea, it may be the third iteration of that first idea, but that may be the breakthrough that you really need, and that may be the purpose that you are called to do in this work.
[00:37:20] Jenni: Yeah. Like your contribution or your way to give back kind of Yeah. That's a, that's a good, uh, a beautiful idea is just Yeah. That you're blessing people with your ideas. Uh, so what programs do you think companies should implement to increase the black, the number of black people in technology?
[00:37:45] Kiley Summers: Uh, you know, I, I, I, if you would to ask me this three or four or five years ago, starting out, I would say, oh, it's, it's not program. It's, it's, it's the capital. [00:38:00] Not that capital is not important. Cause I think the numbers show that capital is, is, is, is critical, uh, critical need for all companies, but specifically black founders.
Um, but. I think when we think about large companies, um, they are used to doing big business, right? They're used to doing big business. And so when you have a startup company that comes along and need resources, they don't necessarily know how to help those small companies because they play it at such a high level.
They don't know how to, to really help that small business along. And some are, are working to, to make it right and to get it right, but it's a challenge for them, right? It's a challenge. It's a challenge for them. And so, so when I think about that question, um, is [00:39:00] what programs? I don't know if it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, um, a one size fit all.
But I think how do you, you know, you have this, it's. This, this smaller group that can work with not only the big company, but also work with the startup to help, um, integrate, uh, to help grow and scale the idea grow and scale capital that's needed or whatever that, you know, black founder needs in order to develop.
And we've seen, you know, a lot of companies sort to, to put that in play, but our experience working with, you know, you know, kind of larger companies, it's, it's tricky for them just because they expect the, the startups or the other companies that, that come alongside them that may wanna partner with them or be a customer or, or be a client of theirs that they have, you know, all of these things in place.
But the reality is we we're still trying to, you [00:40:00] know, we're trying to, we don't letter A and we're not at, you know, we're not at Z yet. And so there's a, there's an alignment, you know, um, there's an alignment opportunity. And so I think that the gap between the A and the Z has to be fulfilled in order to help smaller companies partner with these large institutions.
Uh, and destroying capital, um, is not always the best solution, uh, because sometimes capital can drown a smaller company, believe it or not. Um, but yes, we need capital. Yes, I need capital, um, in, in order to survive. But, but the program in itself, it's really about how do you figure out how to, you know, the larger companies work with the smaller companies and the most important thing, it's about how do you help you get, get them to that first customer, get them to that proof of concept, get them to, um, the ability where they can start to realize their solution, get feedback on the solution, and or [00:41:00] even begin to drive revenue.
From their solution. If, if I say anything that the latter point that I'm making here is companies to help those sort of founders, um, and black companies, um, any company for that matter, get to their first customer because that, that point, that is, that is a kind of a swim or a saint situation. Um, and, and, and the company can really grow, you know, from that experience.
[00:41:32] Jenni: Can you explain how I'm not as familiar with the startup startup world? Um, how are companies interacting with big companies inter interacting with the smaller companies? Is there some sort of counseling or partnership? How does that look?
[00:41:46] Kiley Summers: Yeah. So, uh, from our experience, uh, you know, how they set it up is obviously you get the partnership, you know, your brand partnership with this, this big, big company, which is, uh, it's just a phenomenal opportunity, right? We've been [00:42:00] been fortunate enough to, to, to have a few of those companies, um, um, as partners, but they typically give you a, an executive mentor or a couple executive mentors that help you, you know, think through your business, um, in its current state, but then also thinking about it in the future state, uh, and then trying to help you hit those certain milestones, um, or making the introductions internally within the organization for some of the people that, that can assist you.
So they really become champions. They become advisors, um, to the business. Um, and that really works. It gives you exposure and it gives you insight, you know, to, to some of these companies. Something you may wanna partner with or you want them to become clients or customers of yours. It gives you insight into how to make that happen.
Um, and more than anything, it's all about relationships. Um, so even if the timing is off, just by you showing up, [00:43:00] showing your solution, um, you may, you may get picked even if you're not, you know, at the place you need to be. Uh, and so this is what where we have seen, uh, companies do well, uh, other opportunities.
Uh, what we've seen, we've seen exactly what I explained, or some, some companies are instituting, um, consulting firms in the middle to help kind of be that liaison between the big guy and the little guy. Um, that works too. But, but sometimes things get lost in translation or, you know, the, the, you know, the consultant may not be abreast or have all of the current data, um, you know, you know, things change, market change, which forced companies to change, you know, where they're really invest in their time, energy, and resources to make something work, you know?
And so, um, sometimes that can have an impact on the little guy, you know, um, and the consulting company may not necessarily know that. So we've seen it all. Um, you know, and I shouldn't say we've seen it all, but we've seen, you know, different styles. [00:44:00] Um, and, and, and, but I think it more importantly, um, get in line, put your name in the hat for these programs because, um, again, like I said before, it, it, it ex uh, exposure, expand expectation.
Um, and if you don't know, uh, or if you've never been. On that side, in, in corporate world, being in some of those executive rooms, having that opportunity to talk with folks, it, it can really change how you think as a, um, as a builder, as a creator. Um, because more than, more times than night they've already been down that same, that, that, that same road that you're trying to travel with the resources that you're trying to acquire.
So you can take a lot from them, uh, and be able to try to ex, uh, accelerate your growth.[00:45:00]
[00:45:01] Mattie: Yeah, I want to kind of talk to that point. meeting with executives. I think through, you know, pros has these ERGs, which is what sponsors the podcast, and then there's another ERG that I'm a part of, and it just allows you to be in a room with executives and just have conversations with them.
I feel like those conversations. Accelerate, people's career, projections. And to your point, the exposure expands expectations. I, I, I usually hear it as you can't see or you can't be what you can't see. How would you encourage companies just like generally, rather than working with, like smaller startups, but just like internally to develop more of those programs and, and, and more of that exposure for expectations
[00:45:45] Kiley Summers: It's a, it's a very, it's a very good question. He ain't gonna put me on the spot, Mandy, I see you. I see you. Um, look,
I think when you, no, no one company can be great at [00:46:00] everything as, as fantastic as Amazon is, and we all love Amazon for the things that they do do. Amazon don't own everything that, that, that we receive from them, right? They don't own the, the logistic company that deliver the products to our home. They don't own it.
They, they outsource that. It looks like they own it, they brand it well, but they don't own it. Right? And so what I, what what, ultimately what I'm saying, Maddie is, and I think companies do this already, but do they do it at a level where they take on more risk? And, and that, and that, and that's a, that's a thin line because they can truly, in some cases, make or break some of those companies.
So most companies that we know, they have kind of this, um, minority supplier program, right? And, and they encourage small business and, and minority business to, to get those [00:47:00] contracts. Um, but as, but most of them have a, um, a, a high bar to meet in order to, to, to take on these companies, right? Because they minimizing the risk.
Well, it's a, it startup companies are expanding and growing and, and really solving some major, major issues. I would love to, to encourage companies that may have, um, challenges or, uh, opportunities that they face to. Try to get outside of kind of what that box is and go into the community if they haven't already, and go say, Hey, this is a problem or solution that we, or a problem we have and we're looking for a solution and we're willing to, to partner with a startup company to help us solve this who already may be working on it.
Right? Or just cast the, the problem and [00:48:00] allow the community to hack against it. Create hackathon for that solution. Um, and I think that would encourage, that would help invite more, you know, um, startups to be involved with those medium sized large companies. Um, and that would encourage community, that would encourage us, you know, from a state perspective and encourage us, you know, ultimately go globally.
Um, but we can't solve what we can't see. Right? And so I think that is, The, um, the way I think that, you know, um, companies can encourage founders or encourage those relationships is by exposing some of the things that they can expose. We obviously some things that, you know, we the public won't have privy to, but before the things they do have privy to, how do you take those things down to the local level and see if there's a startup company that is solving that problem and bring them on board for a proof of [00:49:00] concept, or bring three companies and create a contest for them to solve it in the, in a hackathon type way.
[00:49:08] Mattie: Yeah, no, I love this because I'm taking the perspective of the, I'm gonna talk, I put it in the coms, but taking the perspective of the podcast, being like a company, um, pros, partnered with a high school in Houston, and we gave them a business case and we used the podcast to give them a business case, and it was, for, underrepresented students, primarily black, kids.
And the business case was how can, pros effectively communicate the podcast to their employees and kind of just externally, um, and just to see their ideas, right? So like, if you look at the students doing this thing as a startup and us as the business, that partnership work, and they gave us a lot of really great ideas and we expose them to technology.
Um, I, I, I really like that. I, I would like to see. Of those programs kind of just like at at a higher level .
[00:49:57] Jenni: The Pro also has sponsored a few of the [00:50:00] University of Houston hackathons. Um, I was able to judge last year, and it's kind of the same thing. You, you, um, you, you kind of pitch a, a, an idea or like, Hey, can you solve this problem? And then you just get like a variety of, uh, responses from the, from the contestants.
That's the fun part for me is kind of seeing the creativity, which I don't, I don't know, always gets associated with, you know, being a technologist, um, the creativity that comes with it. Um, but yeah, I think to your point, Kylie, that's an invitation and for people to get involved and, um, kind of, um, you know, stick their foot in the door, kinda like, I'm interested in this, this company is also, um, supplying this opportunity and kind of meeting in the middle there.
So, um, yeah, it's interesting.
[00:50:57] Kiley Summers: One thing I would, I would say too [00:51:00] is we've seen, um, pictures of this or we've seen it, um, in a way that big, big companies have, have tried to, to do this, right? I think about my time at, at FritoLay. They use their, um, marketing on their bags to help encourage new product innovations. So, uh, at one point they had like a chicken of waffles, lays potato chip. Um, this came from the customer, right? They take these interest, they do these million dollar contests or whatever, right? Whatever one selected they be. This becomes so that, that, that is a form of product innovation, right? Utilizing the general public to help influence, uh, uh, what, what's, what's to come next.
I think that's great. Um, but, but, but how do we create sustainability in terms of, um, having economic impact, right? You know? And so like, hey, we [00:52:00] wanna go work with a company who may have a, you know, a, a lab that can help, you know, turn these protests into seasoning. And then we'll use that seasoning then to, you know, uh, be the next product innovation.
I, I don't know, I'm just kinda ripping now, but, but you get my, my point in creating an economic of the sustain building at a local level that'll help drive small business that'll help drive jobs. Um, and, and ultimately, uh, you know, impact families. Um, and, and I think that's how we have to think about, uh, the ecosystem.
And so I hope that companies, you know, will, will take the opportunity to go into the local community, um, see what innovations, uh, or at the table, or begin to ideate with some of the brightest, smartest, youngest minds, um, in that city, uh, in that town to help drive their business.
[00:52:59] Jenni: it's now [00:53:00] time for the heat check. The heat check is where the interface crew shares an interesting or hot topic happening in, in the technology space or black culture. Uh, Maddie, I'm gonna pick on you to go first today.
[00:53:15] Mattie: Oh, now I'm on the other side of being picked on. Um, sure. Yeah. So, you know, AI is all the rage these days. I, I can't escape anything. I'm on the internet, Twitter, whatever. It's all ai, ai. Um, it also helps that we work for an AI company. But yeah, the title of this article is AI is Dreaming Up Drugs that No one has ever seen.
Um, now we get to see if they work, and this is a technology review from m I t. Um, so yeah, so the article talks about how today, on average it takes. More than 10 years and billions of dollars to develop a new drug. Um, and then there's a vision of AI to, to make drug discovery faster and cheaper. Um, so really [00:54:00] this, what they do is they take samples and they run the samples through kind of auto automation to test a bunch of variations of molecules to see if that works.
Um, yeah. And they're focusing on three, uh, key failure points in the drug development, which is picking the right target for the body, designing the right mo molecule for it to interact with and determining which patients, um, would this would most likely help. And so with machine learning, using vast amounts of data, including the drug and how the molecules look, um, they can build complex models automatically and it makes it faster and easier to pre predict how drugs might behave in the body.
Um, so a lot of quick early experiments with technology. Um, And yeah, the goal of most AI powered approach to drug design is to just to navigate the vast possibilities and quickly figure out which molecules will tick as many [00:55:00] boxes as possible. Um, but still, um, it's still a challenge, right? Because like tissue, tissues, drugs, uh, and affecting tissues outside of the body, you, you really don't know how those drugs are gonna affect the whole body as a, as a complex system.
So you can't just completely take away the human element and the testing and the validating. Um, but the, the possibilities to just create something very quickly and then go into the next realm of testing, uh, uh, I'm, I'm very interested to see kind of what is gonna come from that and yeah, so I'm a, I'm a biology major, uh, so yeah, I had to pick something that kind of touches that itch. Any
thoughts,
[00:55:44] Jenni: Did, they, did they mention whether this is to reduce the amount of, like, animal testing or is there a particular disease they're hoping this could, um, you know, help with?
[00:55:58] Mattie: Yeah, so the use [00:56:00] case is it's gonna cut down the need for lab work. So for the drug discovery part, but no .
[00:56:05] Kiley Summers: So, so look, I, I have, I have some thoughts. Um, I think the, you know, the acceleration process that I talked about, you know, failing fast, I think that's kind of where we are with whole AI and, and operationalizing, you know, the artificial intelligence, the machine learning, all of that stuff. I think it's a necessary evil.
Um, and when I, when I say that, um, I think we have to pick and choose where we should use, you know, uh, these technologies now, when it come to medicine, medicine is a science. Right. But, but, but within that science, there are lives. If, if we think about medicine, you know, for people, there's a life on the other end, end of that medicine.
And so yes, the data is real. Yes. The data come from different trials. Yes. The data comes from, you know, people, uh, you know, [00:57:00] uh, responding to the medication and Right. We're just accelerating how all that data is mixed together or formulated to create a new medicine. But I think we should slow down when we begin to test it on people versus, you know, trying to get it into market.
Right. And I think that's where FDA will probably, you know, create those speed bumps to make sure that it is safe. Um, you know, um, because I think, you know, being African American, we, we learn about the Tuskegee, uh, um, trials that happened, you know, back in the day. Right. And, and, and that was an impact to a whole community of people.
Right? And, and in some cases with the pandemic that. That brought back a lot of trauma. Right. And so, you know, we don't want to create another, you know, scary time in medicine, you know, um, for that. So I respect science being an engineer, but then I, but I also, um, I'm cautious on like how we take it and, and go to [00:58:00] market, uh, uh, um, uh, yeah, I, because it's, it's, it's, it's lies that are at stake.
Um, and I think we just gotta think about that.
[00:58:10] Mattie: Optimistic from my understanding, the use case is really, um, say for example, I, I take some of your skin cells, right? And I design this, this drug outside of, you know, or in the lab, and then I test the drug and then it might fail, and then I have to take more, maybe more skin cells or, or, uh, cultivate those skin cells, whatever that process is.
And then I test another drug. Well, the process would be doing that online or like using technology to just test as many variations. Yeah. Uh, and then, oh, see what works, let's try that. Um, and then that would move through human trials. You still have to go through all that stuff. But I think the initial heavy lift of, let me test as many things as possible using sample. see what works because something might work. [00:59:00] You know, you have like heart cells or whatever cells, and you test a drug specifically for that, um, whatever it's gonna do and it works perfectly. But then you test it on, on lab rats and then it turns out when you ingest this drug, yeah, it saves your heart, but it completely shuts down your lungs.
You don't wanna move forward with that, right? So I think the test, the tests are still there. Um, and it's not, I think the, it definitely sensationalizes ai. I think there's a lot of, um, education that needs to go around for a lot of people with how AI and machine learning even works. Um, but just the simple, the, the, the act of let me get as many tests as possible very quickly and then move forward with the ones that might be viable.
Um, and just kind of save time and, and money that.
[00:59:48] Jenni: Yeah. Yeah, that would be d. Very useful. Okay, I will go next. Um, I watched a video on cash [01:00:00] systems. Every developer should know. What do you guys know about caching? And pick on you guys what is
[01:00:07] Mattie: I know I have to clear it. Sometimes it messes with my.
[01:00:15] Kiley Summers: Uh, I look, I I'm not gonna pretend that I know, so you gotta, you gotta enlighten en enlighten the audience, including myself.
[01:00:23] Jenni: Yes, I will, I will. So there's various different types of caching and I work on a real time product, so it definitely comes into play when we're, um, evaluating things and responding in 700 milliseconds, right? This caching is basically some method of storing something now to save later because we know people are gonna ask for the same information over and over again.
So, you know, it could, like in your browser, right? If you go to the same pages all the time, it might cash some images so that when you go to that page, it doesn't take a minute to load the page. Um, [01:01:00] uh, this video kind of went through the various different ones, right? Your hardware is cashing things in memory, your brow, the client and the browser is cashing things.
Application servers are cashing this databases or cashing other things. So I thought it was pretty interesting and it just kind of popped up somewhere in my feet and since. Cashing is kind of a big deal for my team. I was like, oh, let me click on this and see if I know this stuff. And I definitely learned some stuff cuz it was nice because it went from basically from the hardware all the way, you know, to other aspects of an application.
So I'll post that link on there for anyone in our show notes for anyone that's interested. But it was a bite, bite go YouTube channel, which I just discovered. And there's a lot of interesting, um, short videos. Like this one is like five, five minutes, 47 seconds. So chunk size for all of us who have short attention spans, um, chunk size information.
Kylie, do you have anything you you'd like to share?[01:02:00]
[01:02:00] Kiley Summers: You know what's interesting, being in financial services, I'm gonna keep, I'm gonna keep it there. Um, I'm, I, I wanna talk this, this whole thought about the world of, of banking,
[01:02:17] Jenni: Mm-hmm.
[01:02:17] Kiley Summers: the world, the world of banking at all levels. Right. And so, I mean, recently we, we, we, uh, unfortunately news that, you know, Silicon Valley Bank, you know, went through kind of shutting down.
And that was an unfortunate situation. And, you know, I hope the outcomes are good for the people that have been involved with that, particularly the, the customers. But when I think about banking as a whole, it's like it is changing fast. Um, we have this thing called neobank, kind of small agile, you know, uh, banks that are developing and, and they serve a great purpose, right?
And it's, it's, it's, it's more of a communal, it's it's technology [01:03:00] driven, right? It's, it's thinking about kind of the unbanked and the under bank, which is so powerful, impactful. Um, and so definitely shouts out and, and applaud all of the folks that's kind of working on developing Neobanks. Um, but then also you have these larger banks who, you know, are playing in this sandbox of.
Or with the regulators, right? And the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau, the, the OCC regulators, the F D I C, like you have that. So, so that's the spectrum, right? Um, and, and, and in some cases we all have access to those things, but then there's another, uh, on the peripheral of kind of the banking system.
And you know, as I just described, there are big coals or big companies, um, who are essentially becoming banks and before our eyes. And so what does it look like? Uh, so if you think about Starbucks, uh, I'm sure a lot of Starbucks, uh, you know, folks may be listening to [01:04:00] have a cappuccino in 2022. Just last year, Starbucks added, uh, 5 billion, that's a beef, $5 billion of their customers money.
Uh, to, uh, as a, as a, as a, as a line item or a, a stream of revenue, uh, for the customers to buy latte, you know, using their app. So just imagine this 5 billion are now sitting on their balance sheet and they can do essentially whatever they want do with it. They now a bank, right? They have a pool of money just sitting their interest like it's their money.
[01:04:44] Jenni: Are you saying like you have an account with Starbucks and you're like, oh, let me put $20 on my card, but until I spend it,
[01:04:50] Kiley Summers: That's right. Lemme spend 20 on Lemme, you know, my app because I go buy this. You cash? I go buy my every day. Lemme just put hundred, [01:05:00] I spend hundred month. Anyway, lemme just sit So people are doing that, right? And now we almost make Starbucks a bank and no knock against Starbucks. This is just the evolution of technology and evolution of.
You know, products and solution that customers, uh, are asking for, whether it's Starbucks or we think about Fortnite, the game, a lot of people play their games, A lot of in-app purchasing that happens, right?
the way, uh, Starbucks, you know, plays in the digital wallet space or the micro transaction space in the, the Fortnite or in that purchasing, or you think about Apple getting into the whole buy now, pay later, right?
This, this is kind of a, this is not a bank, but they are creating what one, consider a banking solution or banking product, right? Big companies are now playing on the peripherals or in the shadows of banks becoming banks. So, you know, to the, to the point [01:06:00] is, how is banking changing or how will it change in the future?
So being in that space, this is what we are thinking about. Right. Um, and because it, it's impactful. So Starbucks, you know, accumulated 5 billion in 2020. Fortnite, I think they did, uh, like 2 billion in, in, in transactions. And, you know, apple setting up by now, by now, pay later, right? So again, these are three different companies, three different industries.
What are providing alternative payment measures or methods or options, more flexibility, more choice for the customers to have an experience with that big company? And so what I, what it, what it results to is if I'm putting a hundred dollars in Starbucks or I'm, I'm, you know, putting a hundred dollars on Fortnite, or I'm, I'm using out Apple to pay buy now, pay later.
What is the impact to our local bank? What is the [01:07:00] impact to that, that community bank or that credit union? What is the impact? What does that then, how does that then change, uh, you know, uh, Everything else that we depend on the bank for. Will banks be around? Will they, I don't know. Will they merge with big companies?
I, it's, it's, it's so much to think about. Uh, and so that, that is, I guess, I guess what you call it, the hot seat. Um, the hot
[01:07:30] Jenni: Heat chick
[01:07:31] Kiley Summers: heat check. That's the heat check rather, um, that, uh, that I would have for the audience is to, just to think about that for a second. Big companies are becoming, becoming banks, so how would that change?
[01:07:46] Jenni: that, yeah, that was not on my radar at all. I was not thinking about that. So you've enlightened me for sure. I'm, I'm gonna think about it and then as right as you know, maybe a Starbucks is gonna partner. [01:08:00] You know, a, a well-known bank, or maybe there's gonna be groups of things partnering with this, and then you've got, you know, monopolization here or there, or turned into an Apple versus Android.
[01:08:11] Kiley Summers: Think about this, oh, this, this is the last point I wanna make here. It's some countries that don't have 5 billion in gdp.
[01:08:23] Jenni: Um mm-hmm.
[01:08:26] Kiley Summers: It's some countries that don't have five. Like, you know what I mean? That that is, that's something to think about. Right? Um, and again, it's no knock to, uh, Starbucks or Fortnite or to Apple. It's just, it's a, it's a different approach into banking and how we will engage in the, in, in, in the economy. That's, that's really, and because people want more flexibility and more choice, and look, I, I, I, I say that and I gotta plug, [01:09:00] spend it because, you know, we, we are a, a new payment solution that offers more flexibility and choice as, as well.
And so, um, this is the hot seat, uh, the heat check, excuse me, the heat check moment that, that I'm asking myself as a leader of a, a FinTech company and, uh, as I think about the market. So
[01:09:26] Jenni: Well, that's a good segue. If people want to learn more about spin debt or you, how can they contact you?
[01:09:32] Kiley Summers: yes, so I can be found, uh, on LinkedIn, Kylie Summers, um, if you wanna contact me on a personal level, uh, but if you want to learn more about spend debt, That is S P E N D E B T. Um, you can find us on Facebook at spink. You can find us on LinkedIn at spink. You can find us on Twitter. Um, and [01:10:00] um, and you can find us on Instagram, but only on Instagram.
It is, it's spend it itt s underscore spend it. Um, but I would love to engage with you. I would love to, uh, extend this conversation maybe on some questions or ideas or thoughts that you had based on some things that were shared during this, uh, podcast. I would love to, to, to engage further. Also, I would love for you to try spend it absolutely free for the first 30 days.
I would be remiss if I didn't offer you the opportunity to try, uh, spend at. Um, again, we are a financial technology company, helping people pay any consumer debt that you may have. Helping you to pay that every time you swipe your debit card or have a banking transaction. And remember, you are in control.
Um, and our mission is to help save a million families. So we would love to support you in any way we can and love to engage.
[01:10:54] Jenni: Great. Thank you so much Kylie. Um, thank you for being our guest. Um, thank you listeners [01:11:00] for joining us today. Uh, if you enjoyed this conversation, drop us a line at interface podcast@prose.com or find us on LinkedIn. Please also rate and review us on whatever platform you're listening from. It helps the show tremendously and we want your feedback to make the show better.
We encourage you to go out and continue this conversation and even start your own. We'll meet you back here for the next episode for Mark Ru. Yours. Have a good one.