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Circling The Drain is a show about the current state of the music and radio businesses as well as culture in general!
Hosted by John E. Bozeman and Jay Harper along with Jim McCarthy as Co-Host/Executive Producer.
John has had a storied career in music and talk radio, most notably as the Executive Producer for the late and legendary Phil Valentine.
Jay also has has a long career in radio as Announcer, Play-by-Play, Voice and On-Camera Actor. He was also an Artist Rep for MCA records.
Jim McCarthy ALSO has had a tremendous career in radio since 1996 and has since brought his consulting/producing skillset to the podcast world.
Circling the Drain is produced by ItsYourShow.co
Unknown: I heard it when I was
on the air this past weekend
that say the new home of Big D
and Bubba. They've been on that
station for almost three years,
and it still says in the new
that new home
they all knew, you know. And
what do you mean the new home?
Yeah, it's their home now.
Yeah, been there like almost
three years. It's still that new
home. After
about six months, I think you
could drop the new home.
Yeah. Well, you know, maybe
it'll be the old home.
Welcome to a podcast about music
and entertainment before it all
goes down the disposal. This is
circling the drain.
Hey, welcome back to circling
the drain. Of course, you've got
Johnny Bozeman, Johnny B here
over there, Jay Harper. That's
right, Jeffrey Harper, J Harper.
Yes, I mean you're you're doing
the double name thing. Well,
sure. Yeah, a lot of folks don't
know that I'm Jeff. I mean, you
know, I got a whole family. I
got a whole family that doesn't
know Jay. I'm
Ernie.
Yeah, hi, Ernie. And then we
have Pat.
Yeah, yeah, Pat.
Pat. I'm,
I'm, I'm kind of. You don't know
if I'm a male or a female. Like
Saturday Night Live. It's bad,
James Patrick McCarthy. Yes,
man, try that in a small town,
and Jim will whip your tail. I
like that hat, by the way.
Google hat. Yes,
cool. One
of the podcasts I produce. Well,
we need our own hats.
We've been talking about
circling the drain. This is what
episode number 51.
Yes, correct.
So what we we're starting to
tweak.
Yes, we're starting not twerk.
No, we're not twerking. No, you
don't want to. Yeah, you want to
see us do that. I don't know.
You well, maybe I. No, never
mind. Maybe
subscriber content. Yeah, yeah,
exactly.
That would cost you extra.
Yeah, to go along with that
OnlyFans thing that we're still
planning. But we've,
but we've had a, you know, we've
had some negative reaction from
some artists.
Yeah, misunderstanding of
exactly what the
circling the drain means. Yes,
and and about the actual subject
matter that we attempt to get
into here. Well,
you got to remember too, people
that are in the arts, you know,
the last thing they want to do
is circle the drain because that
means it's almost over. That's
not what we meant, but when you
have to explain it, it's like
jokes. If you have to explain
it, it's not going to go over.
So we're going to probably
rebrand our podcast to another
name.
We're we're we're mulling that.
We're mulling that. Yeah, you
know, as we approach people and
invite them to be on the
podcast, and there are those
that, understandably so, may get
the first impression that okay,
are they asking me to be a
guest, thinking that you know
I'm over the hill, that I'm
circling the drain, yes, that
I'm circling the perfectly
healthy,
damn it! You know why? Why are
you in a career? Yes, why are
you asking me, you sob? But
anyway, so we're thinking of
seriously of well,
yeah,
of rebranding things. And may I?
And since we're
talking about this, may I also
say because it was it was
brought to my attention that
some artists may not want to
come on because I used to be on
a political talk show, and
they're afraid that if they come
on, that they're going to get a
right wing.
Yeah, they're going to get.
That's not going to happen.
They're going to get ambushed
about something political, and
that's not what we're about at
all.
Not at all. In fact, contrary to
popular belief, I'm actually
more middle of the road than I
am either far right, far left.
It doesn't matter. I don't care
what you are, what you believe.
We just want to have you on
because if I dig, you know, if
we dig your talent, yeah, then
you're going to be on. That's
all it, and and we're going to
treat you with respect, and
that's that's what it's all
about. We're gonna have fun,
right?
Yeah, fun. We're having fun. Are
we having fun? Yeah, that's
that's what this is. It's so
damn fun. Kind of like
that race we went to, the Indy
car. boy. We got to tell you
about Jim. You missed man.
Yeah, you missed a three-day
marathon. Boy, well,
three-day for for Jay. I could
only make two of them.
Yeah, the
first day was so ungodly hot.
Yeah, it was warm.
Oh, warm. Oh my God! And then
they see last year when we went,
they had all kinds of tents set
up, and you could go in, cool
off, and they had great food. We
had like hamburgers that first
year and pasta, and it was
wonderful. Well, this year Jay
and I, hey, let's go back there,
and we're you know we're
sweating to you know beat. Beat
the band. We get back there.
There's no tents.
Well, they were there, but they
had changed the methodology as
to how they set those things up.
I had a good friend, a young
lady that used to work for me,
and her brother was in the race,
and their company set up these
hospitality tents, and we were
invited to come, you know, hey,
come on by and have you know
cool off, get a drink, what have
you. So we're thinking, hey,
we'll be able to. Well, they had
the tents, but they were in a
secure area now, where you had
to have an additional ticket.
Oh yeah, okay. To get into that
area now, so that's what
changed.
And if we had bought a ticket,
how much would it have been
for three days? $2,500. Is
it run by iHeart now?
I believe so. Yeah, we got to
make
their money somewhere. I mean,
that's true. They're laying
people off left and right. Yeah,
we.
So we didn't, you know, we
didn't get a chance to to enjoy
that part of things, and you
know, paying 450 for a bottle of
water, and you know this kind of
stuff. Oh, and
plus that when it came to the
bottle of water, the first one
we went to, Jay gets a, I mean,
cold as hell bottle of water.
Mine lukewarm. Oh, Beyond, it
was hot. Yeah, it was hot. It
was like you're drinking bath
water. Yeah,
she
pulled it out of the pack, and
you know we didn't notice till
he had opened the darn bottle.
Yeah, I know you paid for it. I
paid for
it, and all of a sudden I hit
it. I'm going, God, and I felt
so bad. I'm
like, oh man, you know. But hey,
you know, so I we went to
another, you know, and I bought
Johnny a darn bottle of water,
and it
was nice and cold, yeah. But
yes, the the the Saturday it's a
three day event. It was Saturday
Sunday, and Saturday wasn't bad.
It ended up being Monday too
because on Sunday, when the
actual Indy car race was to to
happen, yeah, it was also the
day of the World Cup final,
and they were and they were on
the same channel.
Fox had the World Cup. Oh, so
they were
covering it.
They were no. They were hoping
to use the World Cup final as a
lead-in to the IndyCar race on
Fox.
Oh, okay. Well,
the Indy or the World Cup race
went into overtime. So it was
supposed to end roughly around
430 central, but it went on and
on and on and on. So
consequently, they delayed the
start of the IndyCar race. Well,
that delay, coupled with weather
that came in subsequently,
yeah, storm because we they had
just they they were getting
ready to start the race.
Yep,
and then all of a sudden it came
over the loudspeakers. There's
been severe weather sighted near
the racetrack. Please make your
yes. Please leave the
grandstand. Severe weather is
imminent.
Yes.
Well, we sat there for three
fricking hours with no severe
weather.
Yeah, all it did it was around
us. Yeah, it was around. It was
around
us. There was no lightning.
There was, you know,
well, there was often because
you could hear thunder and all
that. Well,
not Johnny, but that didn't
happen till way, way after we
had sat there. Well, stood there
for now.
When we were standing there,
there was thunder in the area.
Yeah, but it wasn't near the
track. Wasn't near the
track, but you know, so they
could have gotten the race in
that Sunday, but because they
fiddle farted around forever
because of the the rate of the
World Cup being delayed, et
cetera, et cetera. So
and then did I have to say it
did rain? Oh boy, did it! Yeah,
well, it started raining, and
then they had to. So then it
quit. So now they they they're
drying the track off. Plus, I've
got to add this: every now and
then, Jay and I would go to see
what it looked like outside.
Every time you stuck your head
out, there was this woman that
worked at the track. Boy, she
must have she must have just
loved having her job because she
was really into it. Because
minute you stuck your head out.
Get back in there. Get back in
there
now. Yeah, it wasn't. Hey, sir,
could you please? No, she's
screaming
at you.
Oh, she's
screaming at you like you're,
you know. And it's like, oh
Lord. Yeah. I even told Jay. I
said she stayed up all night.
She was so excited to have this
job. Finally, the rain stopped.
So now they're they're drying
off the track. They go. It's
going to take us about 90
minutes to dry off the track.
It's what like about six in the
evening.
Right, right. Ah, it was a
little more around seven or so
by then. But and the track was
almost dry, man. It was amazing.
You know, I never watched those
dryers do that before. Yeah, it
was kind of cool. And boy, they
do the job. I must admit, yeah.
But then all of a sudden, I'm
looking.
Yeah,
it was me and a black lady. We
were kind of look because all of
a sudden, I look over to my
right, and here comes these
clouds. They're almost touching
the ground.
Yeah, look like something out of
the movie Twister. So
I, I, I tell Jay, I. Said Jay,
take a look, and he goes, Ah,
I've seen clouds like that
before. Nothing happens. I
thought I don't think that's
well. I
was looking at the you know my
my weather app, the cloud app,
and it showed clouds, but it
didn't show that there was rain
coming out of them. I'm like,
well, you know, you look at
this, there ain't no rain in
them or whatever, but but
and all of a sudden I'm starting
to feel
yeah, and
they were huge drops. Yeah, and
all of a sudden comes over the
last speaker again. There's been
severe weather, and boy, did it
ever! Yeah, back all back under
the
grandstand we went, and you
couldn't stand under there
because it was
dripping through the slats or
whatever that is in the
grandstand. So we eventually we
hid out in the men's room. How
long did we stay? Oh, he must
have been in there an hour at
least. Yeah, and it wasn't
just that. I mean, all the men
were in the men's room. Yeah,
in there hiding to keep from
getting drenched. You know,
get dry. So it sounds like you
guys had a good time. Oh yeah.
Well, you know, Jim, we actually
I did. We did.
Johnny and I hung out and shot
the breeze and talked about all
kinds of stuff. Yeah, you know,
and then they ultimately
postponed it. Yeah, well,
we heard from another guy. He
was looking at his phone and
Twitter. He said, "Oh, they've
postponed it till Monday. Oh,
there you go. Yeah. So
we got. Thank goodness we didn't
get there early. You know, the
place opened up at like you know
11 in the morning, but we didn't
get there till like three, yeah,
or whatever, because the race
was supposed to start at 430. So
yeah, there about 3o'clock. You
know, we goofed around, stood
around, you know, had our $4.50
cent water, and and we even
ate. Oh yeah,
pockets.
Yeah, pockets, pockets
barbecue. Yeah, we had some
pockets barbecue. Those
sandwiches were bad, you know,
overpriced, but of course, bad.
Yeah, par for the course at an
event place. Sure, but they
ultimately postpone it till
Monday. Johnny couldn't make it
on Monday, sadly. So, but I went
and man, it was perfect day.
Started on time. Took two hours
to race.
I saw your picture with the
winner, your guy.
Yeah, my man Alex Pillow won the
won the race again. Cool, yeah.
I've never been
to a race.
You know, last year was my first
Indy car. Well, actually, my
first race. Period. I don't
know. I had been to the
Nashville Fairgrounds attending
other things while races were
going on.
Me too.
And I kind of sat and watched a
little bit. But yeah, it's
really the first time last year.
First time I ever went, and it's
a it's a great race, and it's a
good facility. You know, I've
been I've been getting all of
these. Well, I just got one
yesterday, a survey, wanting to
know my opinion on the the race
and how it went. And I and I
gave it good marks overall. My
my biggest beef was the lack of
communication as to what the
hell was going on to the people
in attendance, you know the the
track has an app, you know, put
information on the stinking app.
Yeah, there you go.
Everybody was looking at that
app, wondering is there any
information? Nothing. Posted to
X social media. There was
nothing, and they had these
little piss ants. We're we're in
the grand under the grandstand,
saying you know, and you're
hearing announcements being
made. Yeah, the the
announcements are going out over
the PA to the grandstand where
nobody is, which they had
cleared.
Yes,
but there there were little piss
ant speakers that we discovered
later. Kind of
look like I speak about that
size. Yeah, that when we
discovered
later that were under the
grandstand. Yeah, but they're
like this big, and you and you
couldn't hear anything. So
might as well been doing it on
an all call on a phone system.
Yeah, yeah, exactly. You know,
hell, you could sit out there
with a megaphone and done
better. You know, but the the
information was severely
lacking, and as it turns out,
what they were piping over those
little speakers into the
grandstand where nobody was was
the recorded thing that they had
been playing the whole day.
Yeah, the
event is scheduled to begin on
time. That bullshit. We're
sitting here for four hours.
Their
severe weather has been
this ain't on time. Oh gosh! So
anyway, I did indicate that in
in my response. It's like you
know, there's many ways to
communicate with people now.
Y'all didn't use any of them.
No, they
need to.
Any high tech ways of either by
social media, which everybody
also was checking. So you're
standing there like, okay,
what's going to happen?
Well, you know, Scott Borchetta
has the money. He can, you know,
he can surely.
Yeah, I saw him. You know, we
saw him. You know, I was pulling
up the broadcast on on my phone
just to kind of see maybe we can
find out what's going on. And
Scott was on that talking about
nice and dry, by the way. Yeah,
the race is going to get started
here in a couple of minutes.
Meanwhile, two hours later, the
bleachers.
So basically, they they're as
communicative as radio is.
Pretty yes. We started out
thinking about talking about
radio and rebranding the
podcast. Is it going to be the
all new? Like, are we going to
do that for a whole year?
A couple of years. You know, I
tell you what. I and I know this
may get me may get me fired. I
don't know, but you know, I'm on
WSM FM quite a bit, and they
still run promos. I heard it
when I was on the air this past
weekend that say the new home of
Big T and Bubba. They've been on
that station for almost three
years,
and it still says in the new
home. The new home, all
new, you
know. And what do you mean the
new home?
Yeah, it's their home now.
Yeah, been there like almost
three years afterward. It's
still that new home. After
about six months, I think you
could drop the new home.
Yeah.
Well, you know, maybe it'll be
the old home.
Yeah. Yeah.
Do they have a target on their
back, much like Woody and Jim?
Yeah. I don't know. Well, you
know, like us, maybe they're
headed to the old folks' home. I
could be. Yeah. Could be. Could
be their gunny. But you know
the we we wanted to talk
essentially about the state. You
know, kind of do another episode
about the current state of
Nashville radio. You guys have
heard about the layoffs from
yeah, iHeart man. I Heart. It's
probably you know they've had a
number of those over the years.
Is there anybody left? This has
got to be the biggest one
though.
It sounds it was pretty
impactful, and you know we
talked off the air about the
posts you see from people that
were victims, and a lot of them
start out how Jay.
Ah, the day I have dreaded is
finally here,
and it's like you know, my my
sympathy is starting to really
decline
to get yeah yeah you get thin I
know you know
you you the writing is on the
freaking wall
yeah especially to folks that
are our age or a little little
younger it it did seem That the
majority of the layoffs that I I
mean layoff the the majority of
people got their ass fired by
iHeart were people that had been
with them 2530 some even 40
years
oh yeah
so they're older older air
talents for the most part it did
seem that they they got rid of a
lot of folks that were over the
age of 50, maybe 4550, So if you
were in that age bracket,
yeah, you may want to start.
And you've been there maybe a
few years, and maybe you're
making okay, you know, decent
money. Yeah,
it might start getting
Uncomfortable. Yes, maybe you
should view your time with
iHeart as circling the drain.
There you go. Well, you know, I
mean, I mean, that's what
happened with me at Cumulus. I,
because I remember talking to
Dan Mandus, I said, "You know,
Dan, I'm I'm reading here in the
trades that you know some
cumulus stations are letting you
know a lot of their long timers
go. Yeah, you know, should I be
worried? And Dan, oh no, man,
you know, I show's doing really
well. I said, "I don't think
they're gonna I don't think
they're gonna screw with our
show. If it's
doing well, that's typically an
indication that they will screw
with it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh,
is it doing well? Okay, let's
fix it. Yeah, let's tweak. Yeah,
do
it anyway. And I, I really saw
it coming, but then Dan kind of
you know nothing against him,
but he, he made me. Well, maybe
he's right. You know, I'd have
nothing to worry about it was
about a week later that I got
the Zoom call, and
still can't believe. Well,
no, that
I can't.
That that's how they're doing
it. I mean, all these iHeart
people, the majority of them,
from what I've understood, they
got a Zoom call. Yeah, that's
how they're
or an email.
Yeah, I'm just
seeing something here just now.
I'm on. You mentioned Jay off
the air again. These radio
boards and pages on groups
rather on Facebook. I'm on. You
know you worked in radio when is
the name of the group. Yes, I'm
on that. I am too. 16 hours ago,
Cumulus Media just shut down
Little Rock's oldest constant
running AM.
Yes, I see.
AARN 920. Yeah, it was
a sports station.
Yeah, so I mean, yeah, that's
those AM signals. That's they're
going. Yeah, they're going away.
Either they're just ditching
everything and simulcasting
their FM and keeping that AM
signal. But I am seeing a lot of
owners are just they're
forfeiting the license and
saying you know
turning them dark.
Yep, AM just ain't there. Well,
it's hard
to get people to listen to AM
anymore. Well,
you know, I mean, gosh, there
are so many exceptions to the
rule, but you know, you're
talking legendary calls. I mean,
WWL, WSM,
right?
KOA, you know these these legacy
stations, right? That that
that's different than K A R N
and Little Rock. Yeah, yeah, you
know understandable, yeah.
And you brought up K O A. I
didn't know my parents are K O A
in Shenandoah, Iowa. My parents
are in the museum,
yeah. Well, I know you. I
remember you telling me that
they, you know, were a part of
that station, like with the
Everly Brothers and stuff. Well,
yeah, would be
actually before the Everly
Brothers were just kids.
Then it
was mostly Ike and his wife
Margaret, and yeah. So they yeah
they were an early part of that
it was the the KOA was it KOA or
camp KMA I think maybe I don't
know I can't remember but but
yeah it was old radio back then
they used to sing on the radio
yeah but you know as you say Jim
I I for any radio, any radio
employee for the big guys, if
you don't see that train coming
down the track, you know, I
mean, yeah, it sucks to lose
your gig, and I don't know,
maybe there's, you know, you're
in denial, like, man, I'm safe,
I've been here this long,
ratings are good ratings
are good, and my public loves
me. Yeah,
everybody loves me. Yeah,
everybody loves me. Yeah, yeah.
When I go through the McDonald's
drive-through, they say, "Are
you in radio? I mean, they.
Well, he gets. They all love me.
Yeah, I mean, we got that at the
race. You did. Yeah, you did. I
did because the guy couldn't
believe I'd been on the radio.
Oh, he enunciates better. Yeah,
no, man. We're going through one
of the
lines to take the tram over to
another part of the track, and
the guy is like, I don't know, I
don't know if he was stamping or
anything. Anyway, you know,
we're just like, hey, how are
you? Da da da, and the guy's
like, you sound like a
broadcaster.
Yes, are you? Are you on TV?
This is what he uses. Are you on
TV or radio or something? Do you
remember? I mean, because you're
like we always talk about Jack
Shell. Yeah, now he was always
on. Oh my God, Jack Shell,
everybody! Yeah,
let's have a replay.
But when did you start? Do you
remember how old you were when
you started? Like it just, and I
do the same thing in my own way,
I, you know, project my voice.
Yeah, I mean,
I, I,
yeah,
I don't consciously try to, you
know, sound any particular way.
I mean, I'm just. Well, you
remember how we
sounded before that?
Yeah,
but you have a rich voice there.
Well, I can, I
can remember, you know,
answering the phone as a kid,
and people thought it was my
mother, you know, and would just
start talking, and then I'd say,
"Wait, you know, wait a minute,
you know, this is her son. Yeah,
yeah, exactly. You know, quite
the
contrary. I had a guy call the
house one time, and he's like,
"Hey, sir, I want to talk to you
about. And he starts talking to
me. I said, "Hold on, let me get
my mother. He's like, "Okay, I
didn't even realize that you
were a kid, yeah.
Well, that started with me at
around 10 or 11 years old. Is
when my voice started to change
because I matured early. Boy,
you sure did. I mean, I was
shaving at 10 years old.
Were you really? Uh huh.
Well, at least where I have this
white stuff now. Yeah, yeah. I
started shaving at 10. Yeah. So
my voice started to to change
early, but yeah. But anyway, you
were going to ask something
about when did I realize or
something? Oh, just
you know, wondering when. How
did we sound before we became
radio fans? Yeah, what I mean.
Well, I mean, I was a guy in
high school that they always
wanted to do the you know
morning announcements and all
that.
So you you had it intrinsically.
You you just you did you hear it
from other radio broadcasters
and kind of emulate?
No,
no,
no. I mean, I had guys that I
really liked. I mean, in New
Orleans, where I grew up back
then, AM radio was still a
thing. WTIX in New Orleans, the
mighty 690 had some of the
greatest jocks. You know, I
mean, just your your old school
entertaining. They was top 40
station, and you know they
played it on the. You know, I
took the bus to school, and they
played it on the bus and all.
Yeah, and really, it was
strange. I mean, we all listened
to AM radio because of the music
they were playing at that time.
This was the early mid 70s. The
FM stations. It was all WBYU
Bayou Country Easy. Oh, so it
was all the easy listening. Easy
listening
were on FM, but then that
changed mid 70s when W R N O
came along, the Rock of New
Orleans, you know, and started
just playing. It was album. It
was A O R.
Well, yeah. When I was coming up
in the 70s, F M the F M rock
stations were all underground.
Yeah,
yeah,
and they would play like Anagada
Devita. That's I think that's
the only reason Inagada Devita
really became a big hit in rock
and roll was all the underground
rock stations. Because man, this
thing's 15 minutes long. Yeah,
man, this is real. I can this is
anti-establish. I can
go smoke a doob and play this
really long song. You can have a
production. That's right, and
take a dump. And well, that's
the first place
I heard. That's place. First
place I heard when the Beatles'
wide album came out. I remember
my sisters got one of my sisters
got really mad at me. She asked
me to go request Revolution
number one, which was the
acoustic version, more acoustic
than the rock and roll, you
know, one the Beatles put out as
a single. And so I requested it,
but the DJ must have really been
high because he didn't play that
when he played Revolution Number
Nine, Number Nine, Number Nine.
If you ever heard Revolution
Number Nine. All it was was this
Yoko Ono inspired all these
different. I mean, it was just
bizarre.
Yeah, I remember hearing that.
Yeah,
yeah, that sounds familiar.
Yeah, so yeah, the I remember
the FM and my dad even turned
the station into the FCC because
he happened to be Dial. You
know, he typical radio guy. He's
dialing into different stations,
hearing what they're doing.
Well, he comes across this song
on the rock station, and I he
said all it said was "I love
Mary Marijuana, you love Mary
Marijuana, we'll all love Mary.
So he said, "Damn it, we can't
have that. That's drug induced.
Yeah, and instead of doing that,
let's go ahead and steal ABC
News from the Little Rock
station. You're going back to
earlier earlier podcast. Yeah,
but my
dad, yeah, explain it.
Tell tell that story again,
Johnny. That is hilarious. He
had this small station in Hot
Springs, and I'm driving in
because I've never been to the
station. This is my first time
to go there, and I'm listening.
And Dad was-I mean, no offense
to him, but he was cheap. You
know, he's like most radio
stations.
Yeah, most independent owners.
Yeah,
they don't want to spend any
money. So I'm going in, and all
of a sudden I hear ABC News, and
I'm going. Wow, man, this! I
can't believe Dad did this, and
I'm driving in. Boy, sounds
good, you know. So I get to the
station, and I look in this
production room, and it's all I
see. The only thing in it is
this radio and a microphone
stuck to the speaker, and as I'm
going in the production room,
somebody stops me. One of the
jocks, and he goes, "Hey, man,
don't go in there. You can't
make any noise. I said, "Why? He
said, "That's where we're
getting ABC News. And I went,
"Said Dad, are you taking ABC
News? He said, "Oh yeah, it's a
little rock station, damn! It's
highly illegal.
I kind of remember when I
realized that AM radio was at
least in our town was kind of
dead. We ran, we had Wine, which
was our AM in the building, like
WI as in Isadore, W like wine.
Wine,
man, what great call it! Oh,
great
call. And we ran a NASCAR race
every Sunday as part of the
production director's duties was
to change up the race, or at
least a promo or something like
that. Nobody ever did it. I
think we ran the same race for
about three months, and then you
know I was in there one day. I'm
like, does anybody listen to
these things, and a guy that I
was with, he cracks the mic on
the AM and just belches loudly
into the mic, and I'm going,
"Dude, wow! And not one phone
call. I'm like, nobody's
listening. That tells
you, yeah,
you're running Dale Earnhardt on
your promos after he's dead.
Pretty much, you know that kind
of that kind of that. You know,
that's the kind of stuff that
can happen if you don't update
your yeah update your. I
actually was on the
air when he died.
Yeah, we did the morning show.
Yeah, I was sitting at a Preds
game when when we heard that,
and the
guy that I was with, his name
was Omelet. He came up from
Miami and wanted to be a morning
guy. He was always Omlet,
Omelet, because when he would go
out on remotes, he would always
get drunk, and he'd be like,
"I'm lit! Oh, oh, ha, ha, ha!
Okay, I thought
maybe you were exaggerating, but
but he was a producer for a
morning show in Miami,
and then wanted to be on a
morning show himself, so he came
and took the position that came
open while we were there at our
morning show, and the main the
main host had to go on vacation,
so I filled in for the main host
as his someone to bounce stuff
off of, and it was the day that
he that Dale Earnhardt died, and
he's like, "Oh, we're gonna
we're gonna make light of this.
Oh no!
And he's like, "You know, we're
gonna you know we're gonna eat
some mayonnaise sandwiches in
honor of Dale. I mean, all the
thing, and I'm going, dude."
No, this is all
you. Yeah, you could field these
phone calls. Yeah,
you're on your own. Yeah.
Speaking of phone calls, that's
one reason I got fired from this
station in Franklin, Tennessee.
It was a small station. W I Z O.
Wizo, remember them? Wizo, yeah,
Wizzo is one. But the woman that
ran it, God bless her. Woman was
nuts. I remember going into the
station one day, and I see these
glasses fly by my face as I'm
walking in. It's her glasses.
She had thrown them so much that
she put a paperclip on them to
keep them together because she
had thrown them so much. And
then one morning I came in and
we were doing the morning show,
and I noticed in the production
room that there's all kinds of
things flying in the production
room, including the carpeting,
carpeting. And I said, "Is
everything is everything okay
with Alice and Chuck? I said,
"God rest his soul. She's
ripping up the carpet. She
doesn't like it. Oh, okay. But
anyway, so she had this grand
idea because what Wizo played
was oldies, rock oldies, and so
she got this grand idea, and she
called the meeting with
everybody, and she said, "What I
think we're going to do, we're
going to change formats. We're
going to play classic rock and
classic country together, and
I'm thinking, boy, this idea
has. So what do I do? And I
think I'm wanting to get fired
anyway because of the state. It
was horrible working for her. So
she goes, any questions? And I
said, yeah, I have one. I said,
Alice, how many phone lines do
we have going into the studio?
And she said, two. And I said, I
got a real great way you can
save money. I said, why don't
you take one of them out?
Because I don't think we're
going to get many phone calls
with this new.
So, what would classic country
have been considered then? Well,
would it be like the Buck Jones,
Jim Ed
Brown? Okay, Brown's you know
the you know I mean real classic
country, the hog leg country
with yeah that's why we know a
psychotic reaction you know. So
no, I don't think it would have
worked. And what was funny, what
was great about her, she didn't
wait to fire me till it was
Thanksgiving weekend. It was
Thanksgiving Day, and you know,
whole family's at the house, and
all of a sudden the phone rings
right in the middle of dinner,
and she tells me, "I I think
we're moving in a different
direction, and I don't think
we're going to need you anymore.
And I said, "All right, Alice. I
said, "Well, I just got fired on
Thanksgiving Day. Yes,
here's a toast. Yeah, and then
she and then she told
people because I heard from
several of the employees there.
They said she told everyone
there that said he he just
doesn't have a future in radio.
He won't be working in another
radio station. Okay. So I
reminded her because I knew she
was still in town when I got
with Phil. I said, "Yeah. She
said I'd never work in radio
again.
Yes. Meanwhile, 35 years later,
she's finally right. She got out
of it before I did, though. She
had to sell the
station, so you went from in a
God of Davida to Hive God
Tiger by the tail. So I
mean, so that's the kind of like
jolt that
probably
the listener that you were
delivering to listeners. Yeah,
that is kind of weird.
My father once told me, he says,
"You just don't have the voice
to be on radio. You listen,
listen to Howard. Listen to his
voice. Oh, he's got he's got
such a deep voice. You need a
deep voice, and and I said,
well, you know, at the time I
was only 15 or 16. I said, yeah,
give me time, and then you
realize how processed. Oh, his
his mic is. Oh yeah, little
things you find out.
Yep, big time. Well,
even Howard was told that no, he
didn't have a good voice. He
didn't have a good voice. We all
been told that. Well, I
think he he he accurately
portrayed himself in the movie.
Yeah, he did. That's what made
that movie. Hey everybody, WCCE
in Hartford, Connecticut. And
then I love when when everything
fall falls on the. He's playing
Smoke on the Water by Deep
Purple. Everything. We've all
been there. That was such an
accurate movie. And then my and
I love what the one guy told. He
said, "Oh, it's college radio.
Nobody heard it. Yeah. And he
tells some chick, and she goes,
"Oh yeah, I heard that. I
remember I fell asleep one time.
We had a we had a feature called
Track Down on was WJRB in
Nashville, and you played and we
just played albums all the way
through, played the entire
album. So it was one of these
nights when. No, because back in
those days, I was partying
pretty heavy, and I'd forgotten
that because there were two of
us that worked midnight shift,
and I'd forgotten that it was my
turn because I was so-I mean,
I'd been up for days, no sleep,
and so it hit me, oh crap! I'm
working tonight. This is my
fourth day up. I've been up for
four days, nonstop. No,
gosh.
So I go in and I'm going. Well,
thank God. Hopefully the album
is really good. I look at the
album. Willie Nelson sings
Christofferson. Nothing against
Willie. Nothing against.
Oh, it was. I mean, my hair. I
played
the first side about the about
the fourth song in. I went out,
and of course, I wake up and so
I don't think anybody because
it's overnight. So I'm thinking,
well, hopefully nobody heard it.
And what was funny? The next
night, secretary brought in some
people that they were out
partying, and they came by the
station. She took them on a
little tour, and this guy comes
up and he goes, "Man, he said,
"I don't know who was on last
night in your time. He said,
"But I think the dude fell
asleep. I said, "Really? No,
that would have happened. That's
terrible.
Yes, WJRB. When Johnny was
really blasted.
Well, in fact, one night one
guy. It was another night that I
came in and I'd been partying,
and this the jock that I would
relieve, he about didn't let me
in. He said, "Man, I can't let
you in. He said, "I can tell
you're really. I said, "Dude,
trust me, I can do it. And boy,
he was, he was, he finally
agreed. And when he got home, he
called me up and he said, "I got
to hand it to you. He said, "I
thought you would sound like. He
said, "I was afraid to give you
the board. He said, "I can't
tell you've been partying. I
said, "I'm that good. Yes,
that's right. A lot of practice.
Best show you ever had. We said,
"He said you sound great. I
said, "Thanks, dude. I tried to
tell you, I was a functioning,
yeah,
alcoholic, drug addict. It's
always been fun
to crack the mic when somebody
who isn't used to the the
environment, like somebody
outside the station, would come
in and be in the studio with
you, and maybe it was a friend
or a girl or whoever, and then
you crack that mic for the first
time and you do the break, and
they're just in awe. Yeah, like
how did you do
that?
How did you just stop doing
this? Yeah, and
do that. Yeah,
it's like I remember this one
time with one girl that she came
in to get a set of tickets, and
I gave her a tour of the
station. She and I worked at
another job together, and I'm
like, hold on a minute, I got to
do this real quick. So I did it
and come back. She's like, how
do you do that? I'm like,
just think of nature. It is just
part of the golden talent.
That's right. When you're a
professional, it is
funny though. I have people's
reactions. Well, you
know, I I would always get you
know when I did mornings for
years and years, and and one of
the comments I consistently got
was, man, how do you sound so
bright and cheery and happy at
530 in the morning? You know,
and it was like, well, you know,
you fake it. I mean, yeah, you
know, because man, I mean, we
all, you know, you come dragging
ass in there, feel horrible, and
of course, that was back before
you the days now. You got
cameras in there, and you kind
of got to look somewhat
presentable now. But you know,
we would not shave for days, no
shower. You know, into dirty
t-shirt.
You know, we wonder why we never
got paid well. Well, you know,
hell, man, I
you know the salespeople and the
GM shoot they didn't didn't see
you. No, you know, early early
in the morning. But you know, I
would stay. I don't. I usually
would leave like one 130. You
know, and yeah, you know, do
your production and whatnot. But
still, I mean, I never did see
anybody. But yeah, you know, you
just fake it. You know, you
become. You just. It's part of
being a professional.
That's one thing I did like
about the overnight shift, even
though it sucked. I did like the
overnight shift that you had the
place to yourself.
I was lucky, Johnny. I I never
did the overnight shift. Well, I
did it a couple of times,
filling in for people. Yeah, but
no, I never got stuck in that
shift full time. Well,
the one that I really, I mean,
the one that stuck me in the
midnight shift forever was my
father. He did, yeah. Thanks,
Pa. What it makes you cut? Make
sure you cut your teeth. Well,
it's partly that, and part Dad.
I don't think Dad really. The
only time Dad really seemed like
he thought I was really good on
the radio was whenever Phil and
I got together. When I got on
the Phil Valentine show. Cause
he said, "Man, you sound good on
that show, and he said, "Man,
you guys are a real good team.
And it was the only time I've
ever heard him. You know, like
when he would come visit, like
one time when I came to my
apartment, he had set up this.
He had his car door open. He he
was sitting in a lawn chair, and
he had the radio up real loud.
Which I thought, boy, I bet my
neighbors love this. But that
was the only time that I really
seemed to. I don't know.
Well, your dad was an on-air
legend in his markets. I know we
talked about how the word legend
kind of gets thrown around, but
he indeed was that. I mean, was
was he good on the air?
Yeah, he was. He he was real
folksy, and the man loved
country music. In fact, he had
the first full-time country
radio station in Wichita,
Kansas, and ended up having
eight stations in the Midwest.
That was when he was at his
zenith. Was KFDI?
Did one of them become that?
No, that was his. He started at
KFDI when it was KFBI, oh wow!
And then he started his own
station and became their
competition. In fact, he and
Mike Oatman did not like one
another. Really? Oh, they hated
one another with a passion. So
no, Dad and Dad was very well
known with the country music
community. I remember when he
married my stepmother, Sherry
Sherry Bryce, who sang with Mel
Tillis. She took him to a party
and she said, "My gosh, that
Merle Haggard was coming up to
him, saying he always wanted to
meet him. And Ray Benson from
Asleep at the Wheel had one of
Dad's early records on Mercury.
It was Max Sanders and his swing
band, and he said, "Man, me and
my band love this album. Man,
Dad was like about you know,
yeah, I can imagine,
yeah. So yeah, he he was
Ray Benson, the guy that every
time he saw me always asked me
for pot. Yeah, he
wanted some weed.
Yeah, yeah, I don't know what it
was about me. He had a room full
of people. He had asked me for
pot. Well, you kind
you kind of look like a guy that
might smell the weed.
I would tell him it's like you
know, out of everybody in this
room, I'm probably the only one
that doesn't have pot. I was
selling it
on the other hand. I can't sell
you
coming to me about it. I don't
know. You know, I did have that.
This was back in the early and
mid '80s. So I, you know, I did
have that that porn star
mustache, right away, and my
hair was very dark back then.
Yeah, I don't know. Yeah,
you may have had luck.
Yeah, did you have a
lot? Did you did you have a lot
of side hustles? Like, did you
have that kind of awareness to
have to sell
weed? No, sell weed. You know,
whatever.
It could be production work,
voiceover. Yeah,
you know, I did the voiceover
stuff. Yeah, yeah, but that that
was really about it back then.
You know, I look back on some of
my radio times in other markets,
and at the time, I thought I
made lousy money, but in looking
back compared to today, I did
pretty darn well. Well, yeah, I
did. I tell you, when I when I
left, well, I I came to here to
go to work with MCA from Baton
Rouge Radio, but I was really
starting to gain some traction
there. I was doing a lot of
on-camera TV commercials for
various companies and stuff. And
I look back, you know, I I made
less. I I lost money when I came
here, you know, compared to what
I was doing, when you added
everything up,
well, in Nashville, I was told
that Nashville is probably one
of the worst places for anybody
in radio to come because they
say that the pay is not as good
because everybody wants to be an
artist, everybody wants to get
in the music business somehow,
so they'll work for any amount
of money they're thrown. Yeah,
you know, tradition industry.
There was a
day I think when you could come
if you were into country music
and you wanted to be a country
performer. I think there was a
day when you could work work for
a radio station and come into
contact with people in the
record industry and stuff that
perhaps may have you know
helped. I mean, there were a lot
of I don't know about a lot, but
there were a good number of
former radio personalities that
did become artists. You know,
Jim Reeves,
John Conley.
Yep, John Connolly, Jim Reeves,
Billy Parker, who you know K V O
O legend, and there's that word
again, legend. And but he
definitely was there in Tulsa,
Tulsa Radio, and he had some.
You know, he had some pretty
good records back in the day.
They did. Billy C. Cole was
another guy that
you know Ernie Ashworth. You
know, but you know, is that the
case now? No, no. I would love
to know. Like on one of these
pages that we talked about, the
you know you worked in radio
when I may actually put this up
and see how many people respond?
I'm really curious as to what,
like, especially in major
markets, what people are making.
Let's just put it out there, you
know, because I think Joe Breezy
recently just got a gig. He was
over at the the mix building,
whatever Town Square.
Yeah,
and is it Town Square?
I don't know.
Anyway, he ended up going to
Atlanta, major market. Yeah, and
actually, a girl that I I knew
in Vegas, she is now on the show
with him at the station there.
And I'm going, are major markets
still paying worthwhile money
these days? I mean, that was the
aspiration
back in the day. You think? I
mean, is he physically in
Atlanta, really, as opposed to
doing something remotely,
and is what you know. Still, I
think has roots here, and
Danielle's still here, right?
So, I mean, who knows? Maybe
she's the breadwinner
speculating, but you know. Well,
remember
the? I mean, I can remember back
in the 80s being amazed. Was it
Tom Jordan, the guy that they
would fly from Dallas to Chicago
back and forth. He did mornings,
I think, in Dallas. Yeah, and
they paid to put him on a flight
every day, flew him to Chicago
to do afternoons.
Sounds exhausting. Correct.
I know, but the man actually did
that. You put him on a private
jet at least, or I
don't know if you. No, I think
he flew commercial. Oh my! I
tend to think you're right. But
yeah, he did that for years.
Yeah, he did. An African
American fella that did an urban
show in the morning and then in
the afternoon in two different
markets, flew every freaking
day.
Is is the the compensation
salary conversation still taboo
though? You think like nobody
ever talked about how much they
made? No, they didn't. In
fact, I remember a great story
when I was going to work for
Star 106 because I did love
songs, and Lynn Becker was
another person that did the love
song. She did it on weeks,
weekdays, weeknights. I did it
on the weekend, and she would
always ask me, and it really
bugged me. She wanted to know
how much I was making, and I
thought that's such that's
just no, that's a
personal question. Yeah, you
know nothing against you, Lynn,
but you were
yeah ain't none of your
business.
You were money. So anyway, she
asked me one time, so I lied. I
told her I was making far more
than I was. Right. I've never
seen anybody. She lost
it. She
was throwing, putting carts up
and cussing, and she went into
my boss the next PD Billy
Shears, God rest his soul. But
he comes into me. He said, "What
did you tell Len? And I told
him, and he said, "Thanks a lot.
And I said, "Well, I got tired
of
the
of the question, so
we we were always taught in the
Northeast to not discuss money,
but at this point, well, I know
my
first station of any large
market was I was making 900 a
month. Oh wow! Yeah,
you were making a lot. Yeah, I
was making a lot, 900
a month. Amen. And I, you know,
when was this?
I was a single guy in 1980.
Okay, and
I was living like a king, man.
You know, 20 years old. You
know, I lived on beer, baloney
sandwiches, and cigarettes. Oh,
sure. You know.
Well, I lived on that plus
marijuana and whatever would
throw in it. I
couldn't afford that, but well,
it was
cheap back then. Yeah,
I made. I there was a station
where I made like 32 grand back
in the 80s, and you-that's
still a good amount of money.
I know it. You move that up to
now, and it's more than guys or
people or that's what they're
still paying. Yeah. Well, I got
to tell you this,
but a rock station that's in a
small town in Tennessee. After
I'd lost my gig at Cumulus, they
actually called me and said we
would like to have you on the
afternoon. I said, "Well, I'd be
interested. I said, "What's the
money? Well, it took a day, and
they said, "Well, let let me get
back with the owner and see what
we can. They came back to me,
and I felt sorry for the PD
because number one, I knew that
he's a young man, and I've known
him for a while. And he said, "I
was really embarrassed to even
bring this up to you, but he
goes, 'They're offering you $14
an hour. Oh my gosh! And I said,
'Well, I guess we'll have to
part company, and no, I'm not
going to do that.
You got to go.
Yeah, I've got.
You got. You got. You're
actually going to make some
money. Well, I.
Yeah, I hope so. Yeah, I got a
voiceover gig here in about 40
minutes. Well, so I need to
depart. Well, Jim, I mean, you
guys can. You don't need me. You
can keep going if you want,
whatever. What do you?
I mean, if you guys feel like
you're in the middle of, you
know, like deep dark
conversation, I can go ahead and
depart. You gentlemen can
continue and tell people how
much of
notating the time.
Okay. Yeah. All right. Notating
the time. You're going to.me?
No. Notating
the time so I can make edits.
Ah.
Okay. No, I thought that that I
thought you know that part of
that $350,000 salary. That's
right. That Johnny and Johnny
gets more than me, just as he
should. Just so everybody knows.
You know, so thank goodness for
Crabtree. Benefits helping cover
that 300. Well, you know, well,
gosh, almost a million now. When
you add everything up,
and when we change the name of
the podcast, it'll really do
even better. That's right.
Yeah, that's true. No, really,
guys, I need to. I need to
split. Are we? Are we going to
shut her down?
Yeah, let's shut it down. Let's
shut it down. So tell people
where they can. Well,
currently, currently you can
find, and I tell you what, when
we do rebrand circlingthe
drain.net, we'll forward to
another another website. But
anyway, you can find the the
site. The currently, oh gosh, I
don't know what the hell I'm
saying. You can find the podcast
currently on Facebook, of
course, and that is where most
of our folks do seem to find us.
Over 22,000 followers currently.
Yes, thank you very much. As we
head to episode, we're at 51
here now. But also, of course,
you can go to our YouTube
channel as well as X, and find
the podcast there as well as all
of the typical audio platforms,
Apple Podcast, etc.
Well, listen, we've got to let
Jay go because he's got to make
some money. Got to make some
Lula.
Join us next time on whatever
the hell this is going to be
called. But right now, it's
circling the drain, and thank
you for joining.