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Chasing the Game: Youth Soccer in America is a weekly podcast for soccer parents, coaches, and players who want to understand how youth soccer development really works in the United States.
Hosted by two dads, filmmaker Liron Unreich and investor Matt Tartaglia, the show covers everything from grassroots soccer to elite pathways like MLS NEXT and ECNL. Combining data, real experience, and expert insights from academy directors, college coaches, and former pros, each episode explains what families truly need to know.
Weekly episodes focus on the core aspects of youth soccer: player development, coaching culture, college recruiting, tryouts, travel costs, and the challenges of youth sports parenting in today’s competitive environment.
For families navigating youth soccer’s complex system, Chasing the Game offers practical advice, credible voices, and relatable stories from two dads working to make sense of American player development, one episode at a time.
That's that is the
alright Luis, thank you.
I can't tell you how
much we appreciate this.
So you kind of have the best
of both worlds for us, kind of
the golden child for this, what
this podcast is trying to do.
Sorry, man.
I,
I Call it as it is.
Luis: I haven't been called a
golden child since I was eight,
so bringing that out.
Liron: what it takes.
Luis: So
this is, this is a really
new thing then, huh?
Liron: I don't know if I told you,
but, uh, Lavie, which is my son played,
uh, Luis's son on two weeks ago.
He got destroyed by eh, it's
Luis: I don't know.
It got
destroyed.
Liron: okay.
Second half.
Oh, was pretty, pretty impressed.
Do you like, uh, does he enjoy
his time in, uh, Cedar?
Luis: it's been excellent.
and honestly, it's been such a gift for
me in my position at MLS next at Major
League Soccer to experience it as a parent
because then I get to go back to work
and try to make it better,
just constantly find a way to make
Liron: Ooh, Wait.
That is amazing thought.
This
is what I'm, Matt, this
is what I'm talking about.
Matt: Yeah.
this is
Liron: this is the kind of stuff we need.
Matt: So, Louise, just, just
by way of background, Liron and
I met through our boys who are
both, I guess mine's a late 2011.
Liron son is a 2012 playing for like a
grassroots like EDP type
of team seven years ago.
And, you know, Lavie is playing at
N-Y-C-F-C, my son up until January
was playing at Med Oval, had spent
time at FA Euro, so also at MLS
Luis: clubs.
Matt: and like kind of the
trials and tribulations of
going through the, the system.
I also played at four years at Division
III College was in ODP and all that stuff.
And, you
Luis: I love
Matt: in the, in the,
eighties and nineties,
Luis: The golden Age of Youth Soccer
Matt: the, you,
so this
comes from a place of.
Like, we believe there's a lot of
people trying to do the right things
to make soccer better in this country.
We both love this game tremendously
and love our kids, and the kids
that we get to spend time with
right through, through all of this.
and as you know, it's fairly complicated
and, you know, we're trying to bring
people on who have had different types
of experiences and there's gonna be a lot
about player journey and parent journey.
we'll have coaches, we'll have technical
directors, academy directors, you name it.
but the goal is, is not to
talk about what's broken.
The goal is to try to talk about
what's working, what people are
thinking about, like quality of play.
You know, we've obviously seen you on
the circuit, talking about it a lot.
So that's a a, we want to certainly
get into it, but we want to
cover off your journey and your
experience and all this stuff too.
Luis: Incredible.
Yeah.
I look forward to it guys.
Thanks for
having me.
Liron: Okay.
So, Luis, welcome to chasing the Game.
look, we're coming here from a few angles.
We're, we're parents, we're soccer fans.
We got kids playing the game.
We grew up playing the game.
I personally always dreamt about being
a goalie, so we'll talk about that a
little later, about the humiliations
and tribulations I had from my dad not
being good enough, which obviously I try
Luis: Oh, no.
too bad.
Liron: I try to be the opposite with
my son, who is incidentally a golie and
eyes, you've really started at this
kind of preem LS American life.
Grew up in the system here, went
as a exported golie into Germany,
which Americans are, have been known
to do in in the nineties, and then
came back here, played at Red Bulls.
MLS founded the league as
the league that we know.
One of the fathers of that league, now
you're on the professional side of is
an architect for the next generation.
And you have a son that plays in MLS next.
So all the
So let's get started, right Matt?
to.
Matt: Um, Luis, take us back.
You grew up in Arizona.
What did the youth soccer scene
look like when you were growing
Luis: is dramatically different.
Yet in its own way,
there's still similarities.
there's But when I think about growing
up in Arizona and playing soccer there,
I lived really close to the border of
Mexico, like really only 15, 20 minutes.
So I actually spent a lot of time
playing soccer across the border.
Yeah,
grew up in a tiny little town and I
didn't pick up soccer until later, but
I would say that there were some flashes
when I was younger and I would play rec.
I, I think our town was too small
to even have a YSO, but I did play
rec, but I was a baseball player.
My dad's from Puerto Rico.
My mom's from South Korea.
I grew up a baseball player.
And all of my ambition from when I
can remember playing sports up until
the moment I switched sports was to
be, was to be a professional baseball
Matt: Hm.
Liron: Wow.
Matt: I mean when, when
did that change for you?
Luis: when I met Sean.
and much to the dismay of my dad, that
friendship really was life altering.
So in fifth grade, I
was playing all stars.
I met this kid named Sean.
He was pitching, I was catching, and
when All Star season was finished.
I was gonna play fall ball.
I was convinced I was gonna play Fal
ball, but like the team wasn't that great.
we're going to sixth grade and I
just thought, okay, well I'll, I'll
wait till, and it's Arizona, so like
you can play baseball in the winter.
And, and then of course in the spring
and said, I'll, I'll wait to join the
team in the winter and I'm gonna go
check out what this guy Sean is doing.
And we go to this select team tryout.
No idea what that means.
I figured out very quickly, five minutes
in, I was well out of my water, outta
my depths and they cut me the first day.
So this is where the story actually kind
of gets kind of a couple weeks later,
goalkeeper for the team hurts his hand.
And that goalkeeper's mom says, my son
is gonna be a professional baseball
player, so he shouldn't be playing goalie.
And so then Sean was like.
Hey, my friend who's not on
the team, he's, he's willing
to play goalie for the team.
So that's where it started for me.
And this is where it gets really funny.
He ended up becoming a professional
baseball He ended up pitching for
the White Sox and the Cubs, and I
think the Pirates for, I think he
was in the Majors for like six years.
So, yeah, that, that's
actually how it started.
Liron: I
smell a Hollywood movie here.
Luis: Well, I wouldn't go that
far.
Maybe a Hallmark
Liron: Meanwhile,
Matt: did Sean, because you were a
catcher, did he automatically, did
he just raise your hand to say he can
Luis: I think Sean just wanted to be
on the team, and then at school the
next day he's like, Hey, the team,
like, you can come back and join the
team, but you have to play goalie.
I was like, sure.
I don't
Matt: Yeah.
Luis: So that's how it started.
Liron: And, and for you to play.
What, so you were kind of growing
up before you started playing.
Did, did you see a lot of soccer
around you or was the sport you
wanted to play didn't
Luis: is what's so
And, and so that's a story to
be told at a different time.
But this is what makes me so excited
is that 32 years later when the World
Cup is here in 2026, there's gonna be
so much attention on and, and really
so much judgment evaluation on where
we are as a soccer And some people
are gonna be super cynical, some
people are gonna be super positive.
I'm just glad that people are
gonna be talking about soccer
and when we look towards the
World Cup and where we're at
as league major, league Soccer.
When
you say, did we watch soccer back then?
I mean, at 11 years old, I was, it was 95.
I remember sitting and watching
the very first game in Eric Aldo
scoring, late in the game against DC
United, like I remember that moment.
But even when you looked for
soccer, you couldn't find it.
I remember the Fox Soccer Channel.
We'd have to wake up at two or three
in the morning to watch games abroad.
And now I saw a crazy statistic that
in 2024, in the 365 days in that year,
soccer was on TV in the United States 351.
Matt: No, it's incredible.
I mean, Liron and I talk about it.
We both lived in Brooklyn and you walk
around Brooklyn on a Saturday or Sunday in
the parks and you see a disproportionate
number of kids wearing soccer kits.
As opposed to American
football, even the NBA.
And I understand there's certain
areas where that's different,
but it's just incredible.
And like it always brings a smile
to my face that I see these kids
all, every age, every socio, like
everybody is wearing a soccer.
I mean, there's so many kids who are
playing and who have found this passion.
'cause the exposure and that's part of
what we're trying to accomplish here too.
Like create more, remove some of the
barriers where we can, or create,
remove some of the opaqueness to
it all because there's more people
who want to be involved in it.
And I think it's a struggle for certain
people or certain communities to do that.
And
we want to
do our part.
Yeah.
Luis: it's, it's also
sort of a challenge too.
Now, the nice thing is some of
'em were wearing messy jerseys,
which means it's inner Miami.
But if you even just take away the
messy part, there's, I'm in the subway
when I take the train to work, there's
kids everywhere wearing soccer jerseys
and a lot of 'em are foreign jerseys.
So what's great about it, and I
think this is part of the evaluation
that comes with the 2026 World
Cup, is that soccer is here.
it is a big part of the culture.
And yet the challenge that I feel
is how do we, how do we get more
kids wearing Major League soccer
jerseys?
It was something I felt when
I played for the Red Bulls.
It's amazing that these kids are
wearing all these soccer jerseys.
They're not wearing Red Bull And I think
that's part of the challenge as well.
And it's part of the evaluation
as we look at this country and the
soccer culture within this country
and the role that Major League
Matt: Can
I, can I just double
click on that real quick?
so you're the technical director for
MLS next, and I'd love to get into
your remit as part of that role, but
just a question leading into that.
you said something really important
about kids wearing MLS jerseys,
and I think a part of that is the
branding of individual players.
Part of it is young players coming through
the academy who become first team players.
what, how, what's the connective
tissue between MLS, next MLS, next
pro and MLS and what are those
conversations about ensuring that 15,
16, 17-year-old kids who are ready
are able to get the type of time and
minutes that they need in order to start
creating
that sense and that following in
this country for players like that?
So, take, Julian Hall is
a great example, right?
I think of a local kid grew up and played
at multiple clubs in New York City.
is playing first team at Red Bull.
Luis: Yeah.
that's not a simple question,
what you just asked there.
'cause there's, there's just a lot,
Liron: you, by the
Luis: there's a lot to unpack, right?
When you talk about these young aspiring
athletes within this country and them
wanting to showcase their ability on the
big stage that is Major League Soccer
to make it to the US national team.
And what role does Major League Soccer
play in help developing those players?
What role does MLS play in giving
those players an opportunity
to showcase themselves?
then really what role does MLS play in
dictating soccer culture in this country?
so much there that I, I don't know
if we have enough time to talk about
all of it, but what I will say is
as we continue through MLS next
to invest in player development.
It's to attack all of those next in and of
itself won't be able to solve all of that.
But what I can share with what
we're doing right now and what we're
excited about is bringing the game
to just to more players, creating
more accessibility for a player pull.
That for the first four years
felt really exclusive and it was
about the elite of the elite.
And my problem with that, this is
something that I bring to the conversation
internally, is that soccer isn't for
the elite, soccer's for everyone.
And Major League Soccer isn't
for the elite major League.
Soccer's for everyone.
And if we can define Pathways and
Pro provide opportunities while
providing an opportunity for everyone
to play the game, I think that's
closer to what we're looking Now as
far as Julian Hall playing for the
New York Red Bulls and Julian Hall.
Being on the field every single time.
That's a byproduct of that work because
when I was in Germany, I got to experience
a period where the DFB, which is their
federation, went all in using the lever
that is the DFL, which is the Bunes Liga,
to enhance, optimize, increase the level
of competitiveness in international team.
And so when I was at FC Kai Law, which
is the first club I ever played at, I
got to see that initiative play out in
the soccer culture within that country.
instead of a young player who was
on our roster getting one chance
or five chances, they got like 40
And the reason they did that is
because if they could create as many
opportunities as possible for those
young players to play, create the safety
for them to make mistakes and grow.
Then they saw not only was that going to
enhance their product, but it was gonna
have a natural upward positive effect on
their national And so in, in our own way,
I think we're on the precipice of that.
Liron: So, so just a little bit
on that, because when you say
grow the game, this was something
heard you in other interviews.
So, when I grew up, I grew up in
Israel there was basically kind
of the rules of the backyard.
You played with everybody, different ages.
It was just complete chaos every,
but everybody played soccer, right?
But then only the good ones continued
on to play at whatever clubs were in
Tel Aviv or Ramad gunna, wherever you
But the ones that weren't good enough,
they just kept playing in the backyard.
The question is, are we trying to
grow where we're adding more players
into the pool, or are we trying to
give more opportunities to the good
players and develop them better?
The ones that do make it above that.
First level.
So how, how do you def, is growth numbers
more players or is it more opportunity or
better development for the small numbers
of players who are in that elite area?
Matt: and just one other, or is
it developing more professionals?
Luis: It's all of the above and the
reason I say that is you can play the
sport and enjoy it and not feel each
and every time you step onto the field,
Hey, just want to be a professional.
think there's, there's hundreds of
thousands, if not millions of those
kids, and you just want to be able to
provide an opportunity for them to play.
And then of course there's gonna be
that subset of those players that.
That's all they think about.
They're obsessive about that.
And you want to be able to
provide for that as well.
Knowing that when we think about
the product quality that is Major
League Soccer, the one area that
we really have control over that we
can affect is a domestic product.
So it's like you're doing both, which is a
huge challenge, but it's a challenge worth
undertaking and it's gonna take time.
something that's gonna
be solved overnight.
Liron: So in Germany, when you play
it, you brought up that example.
I, and I know I always look up mean
the Germans, there's always these
systems about, sometimes there's,
there's no scores until a certain age.
Or they play four oh V four five.
I mean, they always have
Luis: you say?
That's a really important point,
right?
Because I don't think that's widely known
in the United States,
Liron: so I want to hear it from you.
Luis: Like the fact that there
aren't keeping score and, I think
if you say that in some sports
circles within parents, they'd be
blasphemous.
Liron: At a
young age they don't keep scores.
I, I know that
Luis: Right.
And I had a conversation with the
football association, the fa, which
is the federation in, in England, and
they only have standings for U 18.
Like that is a wild thought
for an American parent.
Liron: Well, we
love to win, is why we
came to this country.
Hey, hey, we
Luis: And, and again, that is within the
fabric of the American mindset, which is
it's for better or for worse, that is us.
Like we don't watch the Olympics
cheering on the silver medalists.
Right.
we want to see
Liron: We wanna be sick of winning
Luis: Exactly.
part of the American sports culture and
I just think it's really important that
we acknowledge that it isn't like this
everywhere, and I'm not saying we have
to be that, but having as many reference
points as possible helps with perspective.
And I, I'm definitely not saying
we're going that direction.
It's just really interesting.
And again, because of your background
and, and what you've experienced,
it's not like this everywhere.
Liron: Sure.
But, but Luis, how do you take, so soccer
here is considered, let's say it's not
a top sport, whatever the numbers are, I
don't really know, but in a way, you're
trying to almost change the system or try
to, it's one thing if, let's say we did
it in basketball where the, the American
basketball talent pool is the greatest in
the world, and we can make our own rules.
But it seems there's a perception
where you are already playing catch
up,
playing catch up to the rest of
the world, both on the national
level and on the league level, uh,
talent pool and, and et cetera.
But already you're making changes to
very fundamental things, which are,
maybe the Germans can do it because
Luis: Well, I mean, and maybe that again,
like for better or for worse, that is my
mindset is the nice thing about next is.
It's being funded by Major League Soccer.
Liron: Yeah.
Luis: Right?
And maybe that doesn't get talked
about enough, and it gets really
complicated to talk about that.
So this is why it really
should never be the narrative.
The narrative is we're trying to grow
the game and we're trying to develop
the next generation of professionals.
And, and I don't say players,
I say professionals that
will impact the professional
because those professionals
will be coaches.
Liron: is important.
That connection you just brought up
that that actually is an important point
Luis: And then that's actually
what makes us so unique.
It's not just in soccer.
Like the a a U is not directly connected
to the NBA, American Legion's not
connected to Major League baseball.
I mean, I just think of, I mean,
those are the ones that come to mind.
You know, what's the other one?
the Flag football organization
there, they're, there's
marketing with the NFL, but.
The NFL is not connected Um, and
so MLS next, what's unique about
it is that it's, it's funded.
It is, it is a direct connection
to major league soccer.
And now that actually starts to mirror
what's happening around the world.
But it's such a complicated story to tell.
And, and there was, there
was something you said that I
thought was really important.
You said that the history
part, and it takes time.
I was watching a game a couple weeks ago.
It was, it, and actually it was just
last weekend, it was LAFC versus Club
It was the, it
was
billed as the $10 million
game.
Matt: was crazy.
Luis: Did you guys watch that game?
Matt: It's unbelievable
Luis: Incredible.
Right.
It one of the best major league
soccer games I've ever watched.
And yeah, you can say there was
something on the line and that this,
and that is like, to me, I would love
to see that to be the standard for MLS.
And that's something that I'll continue
to push until I'm no longer a part of this
game because I believe we can get there.
And this $10 million game, $10
million But there was something
that the commentator said that I
think is really, really important.
Club America was established in 1916,
LAFC was established So they have 102
years of history, tradition, and culture
shaping soccer as their advantage.
Whereas LAFC just started seven years ago
and it's amazing to see what they've done.
And having stars like Carlos Vela
come through and really launched
that franchise has been incredible.
And that's just part of the story of
Major League Soccer is in 30 years.
When you look at the World Cup in 94,
we've made massive strides, and yet
we still have a long ways to go when
you look at a storied franchise like
Club America and then you can look
across the pond to Europe, whether
it's Byron Munich or Manchester United.
They've just been around for so long.
So better comparison to a Man United
is like a New York Yankees who's been
around since the early 19 hundreds.
Whereas MLS is just so unique in the
sense that it feels like it's been around
for a while and it's accomplished a lot.
But we're so early innings because
we're only three decades in
Matt: Luis, um, I'm not gonna lead
you to the promotion relegation
discussion because I thought you
were actually about to go there.
Um, instead
I want to ask you a
question
Liron: what's
relegation I
Matt: about, about the funnel in,
in America, the size of this country
and the number of youth players.
Um, I've often heard that the funnel
is a blessing and a curse being it's
as large as it is with the geographic
footprint we have of this country.
Right.
You think of England, you think there's
20 cat one teams in their use system.
The furthest they have
to travel is three hours,
right.
To play any of their teams.
It's, it's
Luis: When, when I played in Germany,
the farthest that we had to go
from southwest Germany was Berlin.
And I can't remember, but it wasn't more
than a four or five hour train ride,
maybe in a car.
It was eight hours.
And, and I grew up in Arizona, so
when we played in our youth league,
which was a state league, I lived way
down, whereas I played an hour and a
half, like I had to travel an hour and
a half every day to go to training.
And then when we played state league
games, it was in Phoenix, so it
was three and a half to four hours.
And then if we wanted to go to real
competitive tournaments, it was Southern
California, so it was an eight to 10
hour drive that just felt normal for us.
Matt: Yeah.
Luis: mean,
Matt: don't think we have enough, we
don't talk enough about the unique
challenges every, it's easy to complain.
Lots of people do it, but the challenge
is that you have ML sn next has the other
elite leagues have, is real when it comes
to the number of players, the player pool
coaches, to your point earlier, right?
I mean, for MLS next you have
to be a b licensed coaches
coach to be a b licensed coach.
It's an arduous, time consuming,
you know, process to get there.
Um.
Liron: but isn't
that another barrier?
Luis: I mean, all these challenges
is really what energizes me
the game's given me so much.
It gave me an opportunity
to go to college, got a
scholarship, so I got educated.
That changed my life.
It gave me an opportunity to go abroad.
I got to experience the
world that changed my life.
My wife and I had three
kids here in New Jersey.
It's some of the best years of our life.
I, when I was retiring back in 2020,
for me the mindset was simply, it's
time for me to turn around and give back
to the game that's given me so And I
guess my mindset was simply like, How
do we make it better for more people?
And even I, I ran into Maxi
Morales, right, incredible.
Maybe, maybe the most important player to
have ever gone through New York City fc.
And he's thinking about what's next?
And I was like, maxi, it's
time to give back to the game.
stay, we need you.
coach, MLS has given you so much now.
please, just you, you alone
staying in major league soccer is
gonna elevate what we're doing.
Um, but that, that's simply what it
is, is there's so many challenges.
And you could get overwhelmed
with how challenging it is because
the size of our country is pretty
much the continent of Europe.
And you can break down the parts of the
country into different regions, and that's
the size of the countries in, in Europe.
But that's part of the challenge
and it's, it's a challenge worth
undertaking and try to solve.
And with this idea of like, how do we
just make it better, make it better
for the game, make it better for the
families, make it better for the players.
So then when you look at the funnel,
when the DA launched, which was after
me, so I graduated high school in 2002.
Went to college at the University
of Portland and I was hearing
about this thing called the US
So I didn't get to experience
it And then it's sort of poetic.
'cause when my career came to an end,
it was just after 2020, that's when
the DA came to an That's when they
dropped And then that's when Major
League Soccer took on the challenge of
launching a new league called MLS Next.
And you, it's almost
like Major League Soccer.
And, I was very fortunate as a
player, I got to be part of the
leadership of the Players Association.
And so we would sit and we would
negotiate CBAs with the owners.
When you're at the table, you really
start to understand some of the
challenges that they're experiencing.
And that's where you try to
find those compromises with this
idea of progressing the game.
And until you actually hear some
of the challenges that they're
experiencing, it's so easy.
From afar to be like, we want more
money or we want this, we want that.
Um, but the idea is, is we had to
collaborate and find solutions together.
And that's something that we did
during COVI to bring the league back to
play, but to find a solution together.
and this is where we're at now, is how do
we collaborate with our current membership
to try to solve some of these big
problems while also adding new membership?
Because that's what's also so exciting
about the upcoming season 25, 26, is
there's people with the space that when
we launched this new tier, instead of
just cannibalizing what we're doing,
let's, we went with the approach of
like, Hey, this is what we'd like to
do and if you want to join us, amazing.
if we can do this together,
we're gonna serve more families,
we're gonna serve more players.
And then it goes back to why I think
we have an advantage over the da.
And this isn't a criticism, this is
just, I guess the way that I see it
is the DA funneled up to the national
Matt: Mm-hmm.
Luis: But in each age group, there's
only one national which means that
you are only serving 25 to 30 players.
Liron: tiny.
Luis: It's tiny in a country
that has millions of players.
But now the advantage that we have
in Major League Soccer is we have
30 clubs at the first team level, at
the Major League soccer level, and
now we have this other tier of next
pro that's gonna be even more clubs.
And the idea is how do we create all these
funnels to get players to those teams?
And so now, instead of the 25, 30 per
age group that the national team was
serving, we're able to, with our MLS
clubs, serve those 25 or 30 times 30,
and then those still funnel up to the
national So now how do we continue to
open up that funnel, get more players
into that while providing them a good
experience, which is a big challenge.
And now we're starting to get into
the nitty gritty of some of the
challenges that my group has taken on.
How do we make this more affordable?
Well, let's try to reduce travel.
How do we make this, a better
experience for the families?
Well, if we have double fix your weekend,
every single weekend, like imagine this.
go through this scenario, right?
Like within MLS next we
have two buckets of clubs.
We have our MLS academies, right?
So your New York re bulls, your
New York fcs, your Phillies.
And then you have the
other bucket, which is non
And there's some fundamental differences,
but the challenges are still the same.
They want, their passion is to develop
players, And so an MLS Academy,
the coaches, it's a full-time gig.
So from the morning they wake
up until they, when they go to
bed, like that is their job.
Like that's what they're focused on.
And on non MLS academies, those
coaches might have jobs, they
might have nine to fives, and
then their passion is to be on the field.
So let's take that coach, focus on
that If that coach is the nine to
five, and as soon as they get off
work, they want to get to the field
because they're so excited as coach.
Like where in there
are they game planning?
Like when are they able to
create IDPs for the players?
When are they thinking about just the
little details that are required to
continue to progress this thing forward?
And some do it meaning that they,
they don't sleep, but then they go
into the weekend and they have a game.
and a lot of these guys have
multiple age groups, so that means
they're on the field for five to six
hours and they may have families.
So then they get home, they
deal with their family, and
then on Sunday they do it again.
Like from a mental health standpoint.
Like how is that good for that coach?
How is it good for that coach's family?
And then how is it good for the kid?
Like the players, like you want to
think you're getting the best from
that coach, and yet we're asking them
for, a fraction of a full-time salary
to go and just pour themselves out for
So again, this is like one of those
moments that we get to help, we're
gonna minimize double fix your weekends.
Why is because then that coach on
Sunday gets to have a life, right?
And like, these are little things
that we can activate and we can change
within our own league, hoping that
it has a massive impact, a downstream
impact that then continues to grow over
Matt: can you just not eliminate those
double fixture weekends when we go
from New York to New Hampshire for one
Luis: see again now, I love
that you brought that up, right?
Because the northeast is probably the
dream scenario for travel New York
to Boston is, is about four hours.
But New York to New Hampshire is now six.
New York to Rochester is six.
And so you want to be pragmatic about it.
If you're gonna leave your
marketing, you go that far.
It makes sense to have a
double fix your week weekend.
Why?
'cause even that helps reduce costs.
And, and these are the things
that we're thinking on top
of how do we develop coaches?
How do we better develop players?
our group constantly thinks
about how do we reduce costs?
And we're not even talking about
the people that live in Colorado
that have to travel to Texas.
Right?
That have to get on planes.
Like how do we help them reduce that cost
while also going up against attention that
we want to be playing against the best.
And if that means that we want to be
playing against the best, we have to
leave our market and go somewhere else.
Like how do we help minimize that?
Um, these are really big challenges and
it's challenges that we are constantly
evaluating 'cause we want to solve 'em.
We want to be able to create a competition
that optimizes player development,
that develops better professionals.
That gives a great experience, but
it doesn't cost an Armin andal leg.
and it is tough because when you
look at the cost of, let's call it
competitive sports, competitive soccer.
Yes.
Clubs have fees.
Yes.
And the fees usually charge it.
It's, it covers the field costs, which
in some places can be really expensive.
It covers the referee costs, it
covers the lights, it covers whatever
stipend you're paying for the coach.
It doesn't cover travel.
And travel is so
Matt: Yeah.
It's by far the most expensive
aspect And we're not, and by
the way, soccer's not alone.
I mean, hockey, baseball,
basketball with
aau, I mean, it, it's, it's across
the board and I think sometimes
we get caught up that it's just
soccer, but it's far from soccer.
I the story across all
competitive sports in
soccer
Luis: and, I, but this is why it's
so important that we acknowledge it
and we just try to find more, knowing
that we can't shrink the country,
Matt: Yeah,
Luis: right.
Matt: Have you talked about, I love that
you guys are really focused on reducing
these barriers because it's what we talk
about amongst a soccer parent community
all the time and it's really important.
Do you talk at all about making the
league, so the Northeast League for
MLS next is maybe 50 16, 16, 17 teams.
Would you divide those leagues in
two and maybe have, so the teams
play each other three or four
times a year instead of twice, and
then you have a tournament or two.
To try to reduce some of that
travel or costs end up being, I'm
sure you're looking at all these
different options and do the cost
ends up essentially being the same.
Luis: We're looking at
all of these options now.
The northeast is our easiest 'cause
you can drive everywhere it the
frontier that's Colorado and Texas.
Like.
We're constantly looking
at how can we solve this.
the Southeast, we found ways split up into
subdivisions and I think the subdivision
implementation has been really effective.
Without getting too much into the
details, it's simply, it's on our
mind, right?
Because accessibility
is a huge piece of it.
And if the financial part is what is
not allowing the game to be accessible.
Then we have to be serious about
finding other ways to help.
that we, we haven't solved it.
We'll continue to solve it.
we'll continue to work on But yeah,
the subdivision piece is something
that we introduced last year.
We're going even deeper this year,
for the upcoming year, 25, 26.
because we're just thinking about
Liron: yeah.
I think one thing, another thing
not to discount, is the personal
training, the expense of personal
trainings that the environment creates.
So I know from my years in soccer
here, and, and definitely in NYCC,
there's a very large disparity
between families on a economic scale,
but one of the most debilitating
thing is the extra expense of.
Extra training, training
outside your clubs.
I mean, it becomes kind of a, an ecosystem
of, of endless expense because you gotta
be the one that, the fear of missing out.
Right.
and you, you will take all your savings
to help your child get to a certain place.
and the stigma of soccer being kind of the
free for all cheap sport that it is around
the world is not happening here right now.
Luis: No, it's not, yeah, that,
that's a really tough one, right?
'cause you never want to discourage
a parent if they can do it.
It, Hey, you shouldn't do it.
Like if, if that's what you're able
to provide for your kid, great.
I think something that we've been really
cognizant about that we want to find more
solutions to is just this idea of playing
all the time, like as much as they can.
And it's unstructured, it's just pickup.
I've been challenging my son recently
to just tell your friend because
that was my upbringing, was pickup.
at 4, 4 30 I went to the city park.
There were adults there,
and we just played.
I would play before I went to my
training if, if my training was early
and I was able to make it back, uh,
on the weekends, I just knew people
were playing and, and I'd love to find
a way for us to just encourage that,
that when there's open spaces when
kids are just playing and, and again.
When we think about double fixture
weekends, if it's just we're absorbing
the family's weekend, those kids
are not gonna be able to have that.
But pickup soccer in this
country is, it's there.
How do we just continue to
encourage it as much as possible?
Because, I mean, I'm, I'll be
honest, that was a huge part of my
soccer journey as a high schooler.
And being so close to the border of
Mexico, it was easy to find a game.
and, and something I said a couple
weeks ago when I was in my town
and, and some adults were playing
and they're like, oh, there's kids.
And I was like, yeah, but this
is for the next generation.
Like, I get it.
Like you, it's cool, but it's not
like you're playing in a league.
It's, it's just playing soccer.
we want people to be playing soccer as
'cause that's what you
start to see in other
places around the
Liron: exactly 'cause you brought up your
son and you're trying to encourage that.
When I look at Lavie and where he
is between school travel to practice
the outside practice, he barely
does not get unstructured play.
So he's always playing within his age
group, a year up, a year down, whatever.
I'm not impressed by that.
And that's it.
It's always watched by coaches,
it's always watched by parents.
There's never this kind of loose, you
know, Lord of the Flies kind of thing.
Which, which, that's one of the
wonderful thing about soccer when,
when you see it in other go to small
countries, Croatia, Uruguay, Iceland.
Why, why are, why are we seeing so
much talent in such small places?
It's basically everybody's playing
soccer a lot of it is unstructured.
And I don't know how, how do you
introduce something like that here?
You see it, for example, in Brooklyn.
You see it in the basketball
courts for basketball that you see.
It's a, it's a normal thing to see.
I don't see it in soccer that
Matt: but, but you know what?
I think even in other sports, I think
it's, it's, I mean, I just heard an
interview the other night with LeBron
and Luca Donius and Steve Nash, and
they were talking about it and LeBron
was saying how we've gone fully away
from kids playing multiple sports.
You go, he walk, he drives by courts.
He barely sees kids playing anymore.
Luca Dcia in Slovenia,
now it's all organized.
He grew up playing pickup all the time.
Right.
So I, I would argue it's probably less
so there's less of that going on in
other countries where it was only that
in the past doesn't mean it's gone away.
But I think go back to the
time part, it's the same thing.
I mean, if you have team training four
nights a week and to your point it's
taking you two hours to get there and
back and you have homework and you're
expected to be a kid and, and go to
school and get good grades and do all
those things, it is just really difficult
to find any unstructured And then
unfortunately they've all got phones.
And when it comes to having free
time, that's generally where they go.
Luis: Yeah, I saw this quote the other day
by, I think Jaylen Brunson, where his, his
dad said there's, you have three choices.
There's school and uh, there's just
social life and then there's basketball
and, you get to choose two, two to three.
And one of them is school.
So.
Matt: Yeah, exactly.
Luis: Right.
I was like, that's a great quote.
I don't know if you actually said that,
but that's really interesting quote.
someone asked me the other day about
U 13, if we'll ever go younger,
and I only bring this up because
of something which you just said.
may get slaughtered for saying this,
but I don't see why we'd go younger.
And the reason I say that is like I
am an advocate of not specializing
Like I,
like I played baseball up
until I was 14 years old.
You cannot tell me that baseball
didn't have a positive impact on
Um, and so do I think that kids
should really start to think about
specializing in a sport in middle school?
It feels appropriate,
but every kid's journey
And so now we have to recognize that
Major League soccer, just the impact
and the influence that we have.
And, and if we just keep going lower
and lower, then are we promoting this
idea of specialization too early?
I mean, some experts are gonna, not
gonna pretend like I know the answer
to that, but I'm just sharing with
you that I don't have, a massive
desire to do that because it's just
so important for kids to be kids.
And at, at U 13 now, get it like now my
son and, and maybe your kids are similar.
My son is in a subset
where he is obsessed.
Like this is all he thinks about and I
see myself in him and that's great, but
that doesn't mean he's gonna make it.
I know he's a long ways from making it.
So this is why it's so important
for even me as a parent that I just
like, he just needs to be a kid.
Like if it's gonna work
out, it's gonna work
Liron: How do you direct that when
he looks at you and what you've done?
If that's if, or maybe that's a conflict,
like how, how do you do it as a dad,
just right now, as parents, how, how
do you, how do you keep him on track?
On the other hand, with your
background and where you came from?
Is, are you saying, I would love from,
in deep inside, I'd love for my son to go
in my path, or is it actually, you know
what, uh, it'd be better if he didn't.
Luis: Well, when he gets home from school,
I don't say, Hey, go start training
right away when he gets home from school.
Like, go hang out with your friends.
Right.
There's the training's layered tonight.
and what happens normally on a school
night is he comes home from school.
The expectation is that he's,
if he has homework, he does it.
But then we live in a neighborhood
where there's kids everywhere and
he goes and he just enjoys it.
And then he's home by four 30
because practice is at five 30.
And then when practice is done
at seven and I pick him up, we'll
go to the field again and we'll
play until the lights go out.
I mean, it is
he enjoys
Matt: There's
Luis: If he didn't enjoy it,
I wouldn't ask him to do it.
But now you have this mix of he, a kid
and then he also gets to pursue a passion
that he has seemed to, to have developed.
Now my daughter, who's eight has joined
in, but okay, here's another example.
I didn't care if my daughter played
organized soccer until she really asked,
and it's now seven, eight years old.
And when we go and train, she
went and trained us at one
time and it's, we train hard.
She's like, oh, I don't want to go.
There wasn't a part of me that was
thinking, oh my gosh, she's not
gonna make it as a professional.
Like she's eight.
And if she wants to do it,
she'll gravitate towards it.
'cause she'll want to get better.
And she sees that there's
an opportunity to do that.
And lately she's done it.
Do I expect her to go every single time?
No.
And by the way, I don't ask my son to go.
It's when he asks me,
I've committed to say yes.
If he asks me to go and play
and he wants to train, I'll say,
yes, I'll do everything I can.
No matter how long my day
was or how old I feel, I say
Liron: And you made sure that he
doesn't become a goalie, right?
'cause yeah,
Luis: it's the best thing
I could do for my son.
Matt: exactly.
Luis: I was at this gala the other night,
and it wasn't even for my son's club, it
was just for another club that invited me
and, and I went and I, I talked to some
of the parents, a huge New York FC fans,
huge Red Bull fans, which is, it's kind of
cool just to hear some of their stories.
I was telling my wife this the other
night, one of the dads came up to me
and said, my son, when he played for
N-Y-C-F-C, he's now in college, but when
he played for N-Y-C-F-C, he wore 31.
And even though it was for the other
color.
He like modeled himself after you.
I was like, that
is so
cool.
to hear.
You know, like, it's not something
you think about when you're
playing, it's not something you
think about, even afterwards.
But when a parent comes up to
you and says that, it's like,
wow, that's, that's really cool.
and if anything, again, those are one
of those moments that energize me.
Like, how do we just like,
keep making this better?
Like how do we make MLS next the top
youth development center in the world?
How do we make Major League Soccer
the best league in the world?
It's gonna take time and it's gonna
take some really, great people
to do it, but it, it's worth it.
Liron: I mean,
what what's unique, right?
What's unique about the United States
in a way is that you, we do have the
numbers and we do have the families
that are willing or can pay for some
sort of a system to run, which is
Luis: So it's it's interesting
you say that because then you
have to ask the question, is it
the fields or is it the factory?
And it seems like to me
there's plenty in the fields.
So what I'm motivated to be a part of
is how do we optimize the factory to
develop those players and right, these
are two different conversations in the
sense of how do we grow soccer and then
how do we develop better professionals?
And I do think that we have the
responsibility to do both, but those
are also two different conversations
is how do we continue to give the
game to as many people as possible,
make it fun, make it affordable.
This is why m less go is so important,
but then for those players that
this is really what they want.
How do we optimize the factory so
that when they become professionals,
they're better professionals
than the professional I was.
When they become professionals, right.
They're elevating our national team.
Because part of our goal is isn't
just to make Major League Soccer
the, the best league in the world.
It's like how did the men's
national team win a World Cup?
I, and that's what this community needs
to be motivated is like, how do we help
men's national team raise that.
Liron: 17 players in the world right now?
How do we not we got, they
gotta be here somewhere.
Gotta be someone right here.