The Secret Sauce for Meetings That Make Money (Or At Least Don’t Lose It!)

Tips, mistakes, and stories from the field—this episode of HVAC Full Blast tackles how to run meetings that actually get results. Whether you’re in sales, service, or management, discover the secrets for getting to decisions, building trust, and escaping the dreaded “this could’ve been an email” feeling. No rambling, just actionable advice and real talk!

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Creators and Guests

Host

Mary Carter

Mary Carter is a seasoned sales and marketing leader with over six years at Trane Technologies, currently serving as Regional Sales Manager. With a strong foundation in RHVAC, consumer finance, and strategic account management, Mary brings valuable insights and real-world experience to every conversation.

Host

Stephen Ross

Stephen Ross is a dynamic sales trainer and leadership coach with over nine years at Sandler Training. A former HVAC business owner, Stephen combines his technical knowledge with proven sales expertise, offering a unique perspective on what it takes to succeed in the RHVAC industry.

Producer

Jessica Blair

Jessica Blair is a Senior Learning Manager at Trane Technologies' Residential HVAC unit. With 20+ years of experience in learning and development, she designs and markets blended learning programs to enhance customer learning and align with business goals.

Editor

Kerianne O'Donnell

Kerianne O'Donnell is the Digital Learning Manager at Trane Technologies and serves as the editor of the HVAC Full Blast podcast. With a background in graphic design and a strong passion for developing digital learning experiences, Kerianne brings her creative expertise to the podcast, delivering engaging and impactful content to listeners.

What is HVAC Full Blast?

HVAC Full Blast is your bi-weekly dose of HVAC business growth, powered by Trane. Hosted by Mary Carter (Trane Technologies) and Stephen Ross (Sandler), this podcast is built for residential HVAC dealers who want to scale their business, sharpen their sales, and lead with confidence.

Tune in for expert interviews, dealer success stories, and practical tips on pricing, service agreements, workforce development, and more. Whether you're in the field or in the office, HVAC Full Blast helps you stay ahead in a competitive market.

Interested in becoming a Trane Dealer? Visit our website at https://partners.trane.com/

We'd love your feedback and suggestions on future episodes. Please email us at [e-mail].

This podcast channel is for general informational purposes only. The views and opinions expressed in these episodes are those of the panelists and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of Trane Technologies. Trane Technologies makes no warranty or guarantee concerning accuracy or completeness of the content presented in this webinar.

Trane does not provide tax, legal, or accounting advice. This material is for informational purposes only and it should not be relied on for tax, legal, or accounting advice. Tax law is subject to continual change. All decisions are your responsibility and you should consult your own tax, legal, and accounting advisors. Trane disclaims any responsibility for actions taken on the material presented.

All trademarks referenced are the trademarks of their respective owners. ©2025 Trane. All Rights Reserved.

Welcome to HVAC Full Blast,

where real stories
meet real solutions.

Join hosts Mary Carter and
Steven Ross as they tackle how

to run meetings that
actually get results.

Whether you're in sales,
service, or management,

discover the secrets for
getting to decisions,

Building trust
escaping the dreaded.

This could've been
an email, feeling.

No rambling, just actionable
advice and real talk.

Let's get started.

Welcome back to HVAC Full Blast.

I'm Mary Carter.

I'm Steven Ross. And, Mary, I'm
gonna try the email address.

Are you ready?

Oh, I love it.

H v a c underscore
full underscore

blast at train
technologies dot com.

Lovely. Well done.
Thank you for plugging.

Yeah.

We're always looking for
feedback. Right? So Yeah.

We are HVAC Full Blast and
that is our email address.

We have started to
receive a few emails.

We had someone looking for
some help with some technical

training, which is great.

And of course we always
recommend fieldtechhelp dot

com, another fun little group
of words to say in a row.

So fieldtechhelp dot
com for all your needs

on our products and how we can
really get to a little bit more

attuned to some of the more
technical side of the business.

So thanks so much for that
email and for reaching out.

And of course, if you have a question
or looking for more direction,

we would love to hear from you.

You wanna say it one more time?

H v a c underscore
full underscore

blast at train
technologies dot com.

Let's go. Love it.

Well, hey.

So today's topic, I mean,

here's something
that comes up a lot.

Right?

And and this is a meme that
floats around the Internet that

I probably see once a week,

which is something along the
lines of this email or this

meeting could have
been an email.

Right? And is that is
that the is that the meme?

Do you I mean, I you're
in corporate America.

I I'm on the fringes
of corporate America.

Is that something that gets
kicked around your world as well?

There might only be one meme
that gets a little bit more

attraction than that one,
which is the Elmo on fire.

We see that one quite a bit.

But

but no, I that that
is that is so true.

I mean, this meeting
could have been an email.

We get that,

that that saying gets
kicked around more often

than I'd like to admit.

Yeah. What do you think?

And you've this is where this is
a topic because it's an issue.

Right?

It's not just it's
not just like, hey.

What what should we
talk about today?

This is like an ongoing
problem that I would say I,

as a sales coach, have observed
both with maybe in home sales,

it could be a service technician
talking to a homeowner,

could be a dedicated sales
rep talking to a homeowner,

could be maybe a business owner
having a meeting with their

advertising rep or
their account manager.

And just how do we how do we
get the most out of that time?

How do we kinda, like,

squeeze it in in in terms
of just getting potential?

So, Mary, what do you
what do you I mean,

if you're walking
into a new situation,

what are some things you're kind
of keying on in terms of, hey.

New meeting with maybe
a new potential client,

or maybe it's an existing client
that you've known for years,

and you're worry and we just don't
wanna go down the rabbit hole of, hey.

How are the kids?

And stay there forever.

We need to, at some point,
get to some business stuff.

What are you typically thinking
when you walk in the door for

either type of those meetings?

Great question because

there's usually a lot running
through my head whenever I'm

doing that kind of a meeting or
a meet and greet or coming in

to do the close.

But a lot of those questions
really start when I'm even

accepting the meeting invite.

And

I think that there is
even a a step removed

from showing up to a meeting,

and that is getting
the meeting started,

sending that first invite,

and giving a flavor of what
is going to be happening and

understanding who's
going to be attending.

Two really, really key pieces
of information and this goes

for selling in the
home as well, right?

Like, who is actually
going to be in the house?

Who am I meeting with today?

You know, and and you don't
have to say it as bluntly like,

am I meeting with
the decision maker?

You know, that's a
little awkward. Yeah.

Right? But who who am I meeting
with today? Who is in the home?

Who is this who booked
the appointment?

What is their name?

Knowing that is, I
think, it's a very,

very simple step.

Yet how many times have we ever
showed up to a place and all of

a sudden you're flipping open
your phone and you're like,

oh my goodness.

Who are who are these people
and what are they doing?

So refreshing yourself and and
really knowing who's gonna be

at the table, I
think, is so critical.

And then the part two of
that is why are we meeting?

So you would lay down a couple
of different scenarios of,

you know, is it a new dealer?

Are we just checking
in on someone?

But unless I really have
a reason to be there,

why are we meeting?

You know, why are we
meeting in the first place?

Really should be defined.

If it is to close new business,

then in the invite to
the meeting, I wanna say,

hey, Hey, business owner.

Look really looking forward to
discussing how we can win more

of your business.

I will be bringing in a
manufacturing rep to this discussion.

If you have any
concerns ahead of time,

please feel free to reach
out to me and, you know,

look forward to seeing you then.

You know, that just sets the tone
right away that I'm taking this

really seriously.

And

this is how it's gonna be.

Likewise too on home services,
and don't mean to go on and on,

but I've seen this done really
well even just in my own house

and with my own shopping.

When you get that
email that says,

here's what to expect from
your service appointment.

Wow. Yeah. Like, now as
a homeowner, I'm like, wow.

This company's taken me really
seriously. They value my time.

They're giving me an idea of
maybe what's about to happen.

You know, we don't know
what we don't know.

I don't know how long they're
potentially gonna need to look

at my equipment or talk to me.

Even if that whole

thing gets a little skewed
probably because I tend to ramble.

At least I knew. At least
I had an idea going in.

Yeah.

What what's interesting about
that is and I'm the reason I

kinda wanted to start with, hey.

What do you do in your world?

Is that, you at Sandler,

one of the things we say is that
human psychology is human psychology.

And so it's it's people
talking to people.

The application of that
psychology may change

in situation to situation.

Right?

But the psych the underlying
psychology, a lot of times,

is gonna hold true regardless.

And so I think one of
those principles that this is one

that carries over
to in home sales,

is that we we don't necessarily
think of it as well,

it's it's not a meeting.

Right?

Like, I'm I'm just going out to
meet with the homeowner or talk to

them or is it and and
maybe saying, well,

it sounds very formal to call it
a meeting or to say I have

to have an agenda or
those kinds of things.

But the underlying psychology
is true whether it's me

meeting with my banker
to talk through, like,

what are some of the things coming
up over the next year or two know,

financially in the business or
me meeting with a homeowner,

like, the the psychology
is gonna be the same.

And so that setting
up the meeting well

is a skill set that
a lot of people lack.

And and that skill
set costs us money.

It costs us in in terms of
efficiency and time, but, also,

it shows up in closing ratios
and average tickets as well.

And so that that just
running an effective meeting,

whether it's in that business
to business scenario or

business to consumer,
business to homeowner, like,

that is a skill that I
don't I think a lot of

people are missing.

I wanna break down the
agenda piece. Right?

Because I'm I'm gonna
expose myself here,

but I never thought that the

agenda creation was a

necessary part of a
of having a meeting.

And I do a lot of
b to b meetings,

but I never subscribed to that.

And I was like, I don't need
it. I'm good without it.

It wasn't until I
actually started having an

agenda that I realized
this wasn't even so much

for the structure of my meeting.

This was for me,
Mary, to stay on task.

And then also remember what we
spoke about and take better notes.

I mean, I have sections now
where I can clearly say,

oh, this was a chunk of time
where we spent twenty minutes,

and this was a chunk of
time where we spent five minutes.

And so I know that I need
to put a little bit more energy

into the things that were
important to them in that more,

you know, fruitful chunk.

And I never thought of an
agenda as that way until I

really started setting
better meetings.

It

opened up my world
to being a more

effective worker bee.

Yeah. Yeah.

I, you know, it from a sales

training standpoint, here's how this shows
up a lot of times in

phone calls that I have.

I might have a phone
call with, let's say,

a VP of sales or
director of sales.

Sometimes it's the CEO.

Sometimes it's a business owner.

And so they'll say
things like this. Hey.

I've got a great sales
team. They work hard.

They're good people. They care.

They've got no problem walking in the
door and striking up a conversation.

And so then I kinda go, well,
then why are we talking?

You know? What's the,
you what's the issue?

And they go, well,

we're we're having a hard
time closing business.

That's that's the issue.

And so they'll say something
like this. Hey, Steven.

We just need a class on closing.

We do everything else well.

We just need a class on closing.

And, really, what we know

both at Sandler, but
then also, again,

just psychology backs this up.

And Sandler is a process very much
grounded in just human psychology.

Right? That's the
the beginning of it.

But if you want to
end the meeting well,

you have to begin
the meeting well.

And if you wanna
be a great closer,

what you really gotta be
in sales is a great opener.

And and those two
things go hand in hand.

I think that concept
gets missed a lot.

And and especially if you think
about who goes into sales.

I know when I first
got into sales,

the only reason that I got into
sales was when I was in college

for liberal arts.

What are you gonna
do with that? Right?

And then two, people
are like, well, dude,

you're an extrovert.

You should go be in
sales. That was it.

So if that's your if you're
like me and that's how you got

into sales, it's just you
like talking to people,

then the challenge that you
have is you that's a that that

actually becomes a weakness for
you in sales is that you just

walk in and you
just start talking.

And you don't really
have a direction.

You don't really where you're
going. There's no road map.

There's no train
tracks. It's just, hey.

I'm gonna walk in
the door and wing it.

And and that gets you that that can
get you a decent ways in a career.

I mean, I got to the point where
with absolutely no sales training,

I mean, I was making
seventy, eighty grand a year.

But what it will never do is
get you to the point where

you're making two
hundred thousand,

three hundred thousand
dollars a year in sales.

That actually comes from
structure and process and all

these things that sometimes
extroverts aren't good at.

I know. And then they gave
two extroverts a podcast.

Like, what were they thinking?

Yeah. Absolutely.

So we've we've had to work
on our our process here.

But Yeah.

And I Like And but I
can totally relate.

I mean, I totally agree.

I mean, this is
again, I actually

kind of already had said it,
but when I started in sales,

it was for the same reasons.

You're an extrovert, you're
good at talking to people.

People seem to form trust
with you really quickly.

We think you'd be
great for this. Great.

I like to make money.

Let's go make some money.

And it wasn't until I really

honed in my process
that I actually made

better relationships.

I even I fostered
even more trust.

And that again, as
someone who, you know,

prides themselves on having the gift
to gab and just being able

to be witty and
sarcastic and whatnot.

Just didn't even think that
those things were important.

I left all of that to the
side probably for too long.

And now that I'm actually
incorporating that into my

meetings, you you do.

You see and you see a
difference in just the way that

you foster that relationship.

So let's pull from
Stephen Covey.

So Stephen Covey's book,

seven habits of highly
effective people,

one the things he sends is you
gotta begin with the end in mind.

Right?

So in one of your
meetings, think I mean,

if you're just thinking of a
meeting that you had last week

or one coming up
next week, I mean,

beginning with the
end of mind, like,

are good outcomes for the
meetings that you're in?

What are you gunning for?

Let's say you're meeting with
a heating and air contractor.

Like, what's the end of the
meeting gonna look like?

Hold on now. Am I the homeowner?

No. No. No.

I mean, you're like,
you work for train.

You're Okay. Walk in the door.

This is a b to b meeting. Yeah.

And you're talking
to a contractor.

Like, what do you want?

What do you want the end
of the meeting to be?

Like, how how does it end in
a in a best case scenario?

So if I if I'm meeting with a

Heating and Air Company and I'm
a manufacturing rep and I'm,

you know, wrapping my company.

Though what what I want
out of the meeting is to I

want them to feel like they
have made the right choice by

choosing to sell my brand.

I want them to feel

so

comforted by the fact that
I'm their manufacturing rep

and their partner is
taking care of them

end to end.

I just, I want them to feel so
good about that relationship.

Yeah. I think that's
a great point. Right?

So, I mean, I we're we're just
kinda reverse engineering the

psychology a little bit.

And so we would say, you
know, bonding and rapport.

That would be a key
Sandler principle. Right?

Which is we we want
them to feel like, hey.

This is a good decision.

And then we like,

I and I'm gonna just
parallel here a little bit.

If I'm the dealer and I'm
meeting with the homeowner,

what do I want?

I want the same thing.

So it's I I wanna want
that homeowner one,

I want them to to make a
decision to go with me,

and I want them to feel
comfortable with it.

Not that they were forced into
it because their old system was

broken or we got them over a barrel
and they got no other choice.

Right? Like, I want
them to go, hey.

This is a good decision.

I'm glad I'm working
with this company.

And so that that piece of it

is is huge for sure.

I think the other one that we
harp on a little bit is, you know,

going back to the meme of this
meeting could have been an email.

I think the biggest
differentiator between meetings

that could have been an email
versus productive meetings,

I would say the number one

differentiator is what
decisions are we making.

Right?

Yes.

In in the case of like and
I've had reps call on me before

at a few of the companies I
worked at where we were buying,

four, five,

six million dollars a year
of equipment and ductwork and

parts and supplies
or whatever else.

And so the rep comes
and calls on me.

They they vomit information
all over me for thirty or forty

five minutes, and
then they leave.

And that's the definition of
that could have been an email.

If you're just simply here
to give me information,

put it in email, send it to me.

I mean, is that that's
the whole purpose?

So in my world, I would
say a good meeting is where

we're coming to a decision.

Whatever that decision is,
whatever the outcome is,

Because if there's no
decision being made at all,

then there's no point
to having a meeting.

So I think that's for me, I I
would say that's number one.

If if I wanna know, if
I like you said before,

I get an email invite of,
hey. Let's have a meeting.

I wanna know what
are we deciding.

And if if there if we're
not deciding anything,

if it's just somebody like, hey.

I wanna tell you about what's
going on. I'm like, nope.

Like that, send me
an email, you know?

I I see that really
often with new product

announcements, right?

So new products coming out and,
you know, we've got features,

we got benefits, we got some
jazzy marketing around it.

Maybe there's a sell
sheet And all of a sudden,

have this inclination
to have a meeting.

We got let's have a we're
have a meeting about this.

We gotta talk about this.

Well, what if the product

historically

has no place in that market.

You know, you oftentimes, a
product announcement is going

nationwide most of the time.

What if this isn't a
product that this group cares about?

What if they have already made
it clear to you that maybe they

go with another partner
for that product?

And yeah, we could try to win
some business there and maybe

capture a little bit
more share of wallet.

Or maybe they've already
let you know, hey.

Being a multi branded
distribution house is part of

our strategy, and
therefore, you have no shot.

Right?

You know, there's there's definitely
cues and things that you can pick up on.

If I, as a good salesperson,

just have any kind of
inclination that maybe this

isn't going to be where we're going to
spend a bulk of our time and energy.

Absolutely. That's an email.

Hey, we got a new
product coming out.

Want you to know about it.

Understand we've got
these strategies going on.

If you're interested in
different change, Here you go.

This one's for you.

But that's not a one
size fits all email.

For my market now that all of
a sudden does care about that

product or where that
might be a great solution,

or maybe I have more of an
in and a chance to make a

conversion, I'm
having a meeting.

And I'm going to sit down, I'm
going to explain it to you.

And you can be judicious with the
information that you're giving out

and strategic, right?

So that your time is spent a
little bit more wisely as well.

And I think that's the
same with homeowners.

Again, just trying to relate it
a little bit to in home sales,

but not everything that your
business sells is going to fit

every homeowner and really
listening to what's important

to them and then
solutionizing based on that.

I mean, I know we teach
that here all the time,

but that's the key.

That's the key to
getting to an effective

call or an effective meeting.

So here's we we kinda we try to
sometimes we oversimplify some

things at Sandler,
but, you know,

one of the ways we
would say that is

no is my second favorite answer.

Because what really
kills salespeople in

terms of our efficiency and
our productivity and everything

else that goes into
this and and, again,

from a coaching standpoint,
here's how this comes up.

Let's say I'm coaching an
individual sales producer in

home sales, and and they're
selling heating and air equipment,

and they're selling two and a
half million dollars a year.

That's a pretty good sales
rep. Like, they're good.

They're not great,
but they're good.

And so we have a conversation.
They say, well, hey.

I wanna get to three million.

I wanna get to four million.

I maybe wanna get to five
million. Right? Alright.

Well, if you asked a room
full of salespeople, hey.

Who wants to make
twice as much money?

I mean, every hand
goes up. Right?

If you're talking to a territory
manager and they're like, hey.

My territory is eight
million. And you go, okay.

Well, what do you have to do
to get it to sixteen million?

Mean that

the the here's
the the challenge.

If you just keep doing
what you're doing,

you have to work twice as much.

So if you're already working a
forty hour week to sell two and

a half million in
home and you say,

I wanna get to
five million, well,

now you gotta work
an eighty hour week.

If your territory is an eight
million dollar territory and

you wanna get to sixteen, well,

now you gotta eighty hours
a week, and that doesn't work.

And we all go, well, wait a
minute. That doesn't work.

So this piece that you just
kind of articulated with, hey,

not everything's a good fit.

I think that is the number
one thing salespeople

need to understand is if
you wanna double your territory,

you gotta get some quick no's.

If if something's not a good
fit, if it's not gonna work,

if if somebody's not
interested, not every customer,

not every product fits every
customer, like you just said,

You have to quickly eliminate
the I'll call you back.

I'll think it over.
I'll get back to you.

Let me let me think on that a
little bit and email you next week.

Let me run that by my team
and see what they think.

Like, those things
are time killers.

And, again, it doesn't matter whether
this is in home sales or b two b.

The quick no and we you know,

so that's why we say it's
our second favorite answer.

A quick yes is my
favorite answer,

but a quick no is my second
favorite answer because what

will absolutely kill me is
the I wanna think it over.

I'll get back to you.

Let me talk to somebody else
and see what they think.

Those things, you you just cannot
double your sales if you're going to

tolerate that as an outcome
of a meeting for sure.

Yeah.

I I call those those that
third bucket of, like, yeah,

I don't know. Let me think
about it. It's my wafflers.

They're just I I got no
time for wafflers over here.

All right.

You know, we kinda
keep a movement.

So I think I mean, so
if we're kind of, again,

Stephen Covey begin
with the end in mind,

if we're if we're working our
way backwards and we say, hey.

I wanna be a great
closer at the end.

Well, what does that mean?

Well, that means you're getting
the the customer to make a

decision, and I'm
okay with no's.

Meaning, it's not a
high pressure sale.

I'm not, you know,
forcing everybody to buy.

If it's not a good fit,
it's not a good fit.

But if it's not a good fit,

what I need to know and
the the customer, again,

whether this is a homeowner
or whoever I'm selling to,

they need to know it's
not a good fit too.

We we gotta be able to
share that with each other to say,

this isn't a good fit.

Gonna move on a different
direction because

that's the number one way
in which I could double my

territory is get
quicker nos for sure.

Now you gotta couple that with,
I gotta go find more customers.

I gotta get some yeses.

Right? And that's that's hard.

I mean, we as salespeople,

we've done some mindset
podcast episodes where we've

we've touched on that.

But you talk about that
scarcity mentality versus a

growth mindset.

And that scarcity
mentality is, oh my gosh.

I gotta force every customer
to buy everything I got because

don't I don't have any
more customers to go get.

Right?

And that mindset kills you
at this point in the sale.

If if you're not
okay getting a no,

you're really gonna struggle
in sales on multiple fronts,

but time management is probably
one of the biggest ones.

Yeah. Yeah.

If if if time management
is a struggle,

then you're going to become a
margin eroder real fast because

you're going do anything you
can to be dropping points from

that ticket to get somebody to
say yes because that's where

it's going to end.

That's where it's
going to end up.

Well, what what what can
I do to make you say yes?

Well, you can make it cheaper.
Boom. There goes a profit.

So, yeah, that's a tough one.

So an agenda keeping.

So talk to me maybe a little
bit about, because again,

sitting in the B2B seat, right?

Setting an agenda ahead of time.

I try to, I'll be honest.

I don't I don't always
take my advice. Crazy.

I don't know if I always do a
best practice of laying out the

agenda in the invite
so much as maybe I

just highlight a couple of
topics and make sure that it's

known who the parties are gonna
be that are present at the table.

But when I'm in the meeting,

I usually always start with
just a quick hit agenda.

And I really do make
that a quick hit.

We don't have to linger on
this agenda and make it like a

grandstand event.

Like, hey, we're gonna
cover some of these topics.

Use this as a reference when
I leave you with this deck

because I Always do that too.

But talk to me a little bit more
maybe about like on a b to c level,

what an agenda looks like.

Because if if it feels a
little formal to set a meeting,

it's gonna feel real
formal to set an agenda.

Yeah.

And I I think here's why I
like starting with outcomes.

So in in terms of priority,

outcomes is your
biggest priority.

If you're in sales, being
able to clearly articulate

outcomes for a meeting, that

is

That's a crucial skill.

I cannot overstate
how important that is.

And and it it is just
like any other skill,

whether it's fishing, shooting basketball,
shooting a gun, playing a sport.

Like, the better
you get, I mean,

it's those repetitions matter,

but that's crucial.

And so then because
this now impacts well,

we're talking about agenda,

but what is it we're gonna
decide today mentally?

We need to start with that.

What is it we're
gonna decide today?

And then, okay, from the agenda
items, just become, well,

what do we need to talk about
so that we can make that

decision at the end?

Right?

And if there's agenda
items that don't really

matter to that outcome.

We need to either table those
or figure out another time to

talk about them or are there or does
it need to be talked about at all?

I mean, those kind of things.

So you're you are reverse
engineering your sales calls.

So in the b to c world,

You know, it's interesting to
think about what are the homeowners

expectations versus say,

what are my expectations
if I'm walking the door?

And and how do we
get on the same

I don't know, whatever
that same field.

I mean, because sometimes we're
miles apart and that just give you

kind of a quick run through.

If I call the sales guy
and I said, alright.

You're gonna go see a homeowner.

How much time do
you think you need?

The sales guy is gonna say,
well, I mean, I need an hour,

hour and a half.

You you know?

I mean, it I I really I really need
to figure out what's going on in

that house, what's important
to them, and and so on.

If you call the homeowner
and you said, hey.

You got a heating and
air guy coming over.

He's gonna give you
some price on equipment.

How much time do you
think they they need?

The homeowner's gonna say, like,
ten minutes, fifteen minutes.

Because their perspective
is you're gonna walk in,

you're gonna look at a
box, and you go, oh, well,

here's what it costs
to replace that box.

Like, how much time
do you really need?

So I have I have
been this homeowner.

I I I was dumbfound when the
who I it must have been a

dispatcher had called me and
said, you know, so, you know,

Steven's gonna be coming out to you
to talk about your system, you know,

and it's the whole appointment should
take an hour or an hour and a half.

I was like, I don't
have time for that.

What do you mean?

Yeah.

Yeah. It's and
it's so it's wild.

And here's what happens
on the b two c side.

So a homeowner pushes back.

So sometimes the very first
objection we talk about

objections and overcoming
objections a lot in sales.

And what we think of when we
think of overcoming objections

is we get to the end
and they say, wow.

You're too expensive. Your
price is too high. Right?

But the first objection that
you get in a sales call a lot

of times is time, which is, hey.

I need an hour. The homeowner's
like, no. You don't.

You got fifteen minutes.

And so then you've got
a decision to make.

What do you do?

And what happens sometimes,

and you may have a competitor that
that maybe they got there first.

The homeowner says, I
got fifteen minutes.

And so what happens is
the guy goes, oh, okay.

Well, I got my book right here.
Let's walk around the house.

Can you walk with me?

And, hey, your air
conditioner says o thirty six.

Does that seem to
keep the house cool?

And your furnace is it's a
ninety thousand BTU furnace.

How'd that work? Are you
good with your thermostat?

It seemed to be alright. So
you need you want a Wi Fi?

Nope. Okay. How about filters?

You like changing your filters every
month or you want me to put one in?

Okay, great.

And so they sit back down and
then in fifteen minutes they

spit out a price.

So sometimes the homeowner's
perspective is, well,

if they could give me a price
in fifteen minutes, Mary,

why can't you give me a
price in fifteen minutes?

And so what's the assumption
the homeowner makes?

What are you gonna do with
that extra forty five minutes?

Assumption is you're just gonna beat
them over the head and try

to beat them down.

I mean, that's Yeah.

So that sometimes that that's
the hang up right there,

right at the very beginning.

So so essentially,
the first agenda

item is setting an
expectation around time?

I would say so.

And especially when, you know,

if if anybody's ever had
a bad experience with a salesperson,

and it could be, you know,

the stereotypical one is like a
timeshare sales pitch or Oh, yeah.

Know, who who knows where the strategy
a lot of times is to wear you down.

And so they're gonna keep you
there for two, three, four hours.

And by the end, you're
mentally exhausted,

and maybe they can force
you to sign something.

So if if the if the buyer
has ever had that kind of

experience, then time
is is a big piece to

the resistance because
they're like, oh my god.

No. I'm not giving
you more time.

That's where you try to
wear me down and beat me up,

and I don't want that.

So I'm not gonna
allow that to happen.

So I I think time is
probably you gotta address

that real close to the
beginning of the call because

that could be an
objection coming at you.

The other one I would say, you
know, kind of around agendas,

it's worth here's where I
think a lot of sales calls get

derailed is in that agenda step.

So let's say the agenda step,

we had two or three things
we wanted to talk about.

Like, I had an issue with a
warranty part in the past.

Well, what happens sometimes
is if you're the the person the

customer that I'm meeting with
and we're going through the

agenda, I'm like, hey, Mary.

What are some things
you wanna talk about?

You're like, well, I've
got a warranty issue.

It's tempting to the
salesperson and the person with

the warranty issue to say, well,

let's handle that right now.

And what we never really did was we
never properly set up the sales call.

We just got to the first agenda
item and then started the meeting.

And we never really kind of
fleshed out the agenda to say

what are all the
points in the agenda,

and we never really
discussed outcomes.

And outcomes is that's
the thing we gotta get to.

And and if we don't, it's
just gonna cost us money.

So that I think
those two things,

time is is maybe
the the first the

starting point where we can
get derailed real easily.

And then the second one in
that agenda step is it's super

tempting to start the meeting
without the full agenda on the

table, and we cannot do that.

Those are those are
the two probably most

common mistakes I would see.

Yeah.

I mean, one way I've always thought about
that is is facilitate, don't dictate.

Right?

Like, we're not I'm not here to
be a stenographer and take down

every single note and
make a checklist I'm

here to facilitate a
conversation that is hopefully

going to lead towards
you making a decision.

And that is only going to be

accomplished if we really lay out
everything that we're going to talk about.

If I just start doing the
taskmaster live in front of

you, you're gonna say, wow,
Mary's really efficient.

But But

now she just got done when I needed
and I don't really need her anymore.

Yeah, yeah.

Here's, you know,
when I talk about

costing people money,
here's a real clear example.

So I was a Sandler client
for three or four years

while doing in home sales.

And so I was getting
a little bit better,

getting a bit better.

I had a sales coach that was
mentoring me and kicking my

butt and trying
to make me better.

And so my first year
as a Sandler client,

my sales went up
about thirty percent.

And what I got what
I got good at was

very concisely talking about
equipment rather than having

just long conversations where
I'm explaining everything from

spine fin coils to CFM to so on.

Like, just being able to very
simply talk about equipment in

terms that included emotions.

Meaning, here's what other
homeowners like about this system.

Right?

That that concept there, just
almost single handedly by itself,

I probably made twenty to
thirty percent more sales just

off that concept.

The second year, I I would say I really
focused on question asking technique.

Could I get really,

really good at sitting down with
the homeowner and asking questions?

Because, again,
from that, you know,

what's their perception of
how this meeting's gonna go?

If if you called the the
sales rep and you said, hey.

You're gonna go out
and see this homeowner.

Who's gonna do most
of the talking?

The sales rep says, well,

I need the homeowner
to do the talking.

I need them to tell me about
their house and what their

goals are and what
their budget is.

And so I need the the
homeowner to do the talking.

If I call the homeowner
and I said, hey.

The heating and air sales guy
is on his way to your house.

Who do you think is gonna
do most of the talking?

The homeowner's gonna say the
heating air guy is gonna do

most of the talking.

So time, a lot of times
we're misaligned there.

They think it's gonna
take fifteen minutes.

We think it's
gonna take an hour.

Who's gonna do the talking?
They assume it's me.

I'm hoping it's them.

And and so that that question
asking techniques, like,

that's real crucial because
you've got to flip that script

a little bit to
get them talking.

And then so my my sales went
up another twenty percent in

my second year just because I
got better at asking questions.

But when I got real good
at asking about outcomes,

and this is why I think this
is just number one on the priority

list, that third year, my sales
went up another forty percent

on top I mean, accumulative.

On top of twenty percent,
on top of twenty percent,

I had this forty percent jump
because I got really good

at talking about outcomes.

And meaning, hey.

This meeting needs to
end with a yes or a no.

And that's whatever that means.

And if I'm meeting
with my banker,

if I'm meeting with
an advertising rep,

if I'm meeting with a homeowner,

what are we deciding?

Yes or no?

And and just thinking through
things that way, very,

very much streamline things so
that I could more than double

my sales in about a three
year period because you you're

you're able to get through things
quicker and make decisions.

And nos are okay. If the answer
is a no, hey, no problem.

I tracked my closing ratios.

So my closing ratio when
I first started as a Sandler

client was about forty percent.

And it was about fifty fifty in
terms of the number of times I

closed in home on the spot,

like a one call close versus
the had to do follow-up or they

got back to me later.

Right?

So twenty percent of the time
I closed in the house on the

spot, twenty percent of the
time I closed through follow-up.

Three years later,

my closing ratio was at
about fifty eight percent,

and about forty percent of
that was in home on the spot.

And then the other eighteen
percent was through follow-up.

And that just goes to show,
like, just what I got really,

really good at was setting up
the sales call so that I could

one call close it.

And that's that's just not how a
lot of us are wired in sales

from the very beginning.

Yeah.

I mean, I could even tell you
from meetings where maybe the

conversation got
off the rails, like,

you know, we didn't bring it
back to objectives and why we

were there and why the meeting
was set in the first place.

Like we just kind of kept
rambling on and on and on

until, you know, you're
kind of looking for an out.

And I mean, imagine doing
that with a homeowner, right?

Like, I think one thing about
setting calls and meetings,

If you've set it that
expectation of that time

commitment, we better kind
of keep that commitment.

And if all of a sudden we're
just standing there talking and

talking and talking,
we got nowhere to go.

When are you gonna leave?

You know, like, you know,

how many homeowners did you
ever meet with who were maybe

were just like two, I'm sure
you met with some that were,

were happy to say,
get out and out,

but maybe they were just too
polite for their own good.

Right.

And then the next thing, know,

you're looking at pictures
of the kids and hanging out.

Yeah. Like, we gotta
keep it moving.

I think it is a little
bit on the meeting

setter to honor that timeline.

For sure.

And it's you know, we
talk about trust and

how do you get people to
trust you and what is trust.

And, you know, if we boil it down
in the business world to what is

trust, it really comes down to,

are you gonna do what
you said you're gonna do?

And people don't have a way
to evaluate that early on.

They don't know me. They've
never met me before.

They found us in Google
or whatever it was.

And so this idea of,

are you gonna do what you said you're
gonna do is just a big unknown.

We we can say we're the
greatest heating and air

company in the world, and
we sell great products.

We got great people and
all that kind of stuff,

but can we back it up?

And so the only way people
have initially to judge

you on that,

are you gonna do what you said
you're gonna do is do you start

on time and end on
time with the meeting?

That's it.

So, you know, like you said,
that confirmation email of, hey.

We got you scheduled
for tomorrow.

We're gonna be there at
whatever time between two and

three or something like that
if it's a a residential call.

You gotta be there
between two and three.

And then the same thing
holds true, like, at the end.

Like, when you say, hey. This
is gonna take about an hour.

If it takes three hours and
you are just kinda wearing them

down and wearing them out,
if that's your strategy,

what you're really
doing is losing trust.

And it's interesting because
there are sales strategies

that go on that premise.

I my one of my first ever sales
training classes I did was in

two thousand eleven, and
it was down in Florida.

We had a bunch of different
dealers in the room,

And I just was asking, hey.
What's your closing technique?

And these two guys from this
company in Florida said, hey.

We don't leave.

And I said, what do you mean?

Like, we're talking
about closing techniques.

They're like, yeah. We
just don't leave the house.

And I was like, what do you
mean you don't leave the house?

They're like, well, we just
stay there till they buy.

Like, so you have a hundred
percent closing ratio?

And they're like, oh, yeah.

No. We don't have a hundred
percent closing ratio.

Well, then if they don't
buy, how do you leave?

And they go, they throw us out.

That's the only way
they would leave.

That was kind of their strategy.

So they learned that
somewhere. Right?

Like, somebody came in and
said, alright. Here's the deal.

We're not leaving till they
buy or they throw us out.

And here's the problem with
that is lots of problems,

but two that'll show up in the
business world really easily.

One is you're gonna have
a high cancellation rate.

They'll agree to a
sale when you're there,

but then they've got that
three day right to cancel.

I mean, you're gonna have
this high cancellation rate,

and now you gotta fight people
to keep them on the books after

they try to cancel.

And then number two is
you get zero referrals.

Even if they do buy from you,

nobody's gonna say to
their neighbor, oh, hey.

Call this guy.

He'll come hang out in your
house for three or four hours

till you, finally throw him out.

So those those those are the
business ramifications of that

type of sales process.

It's not good long
term business,

which seems self explanatory,

but there's people
out there trying it.

Yeah.

I mean, that's why the three day
notice of right to cancel exists

because companies had predatory
practices where they didn't leave.

That's, that is
literally a call in

response to that.

That's, that's so interesting.

I had one recently and you're
very good at hearing stories

from the real world.

So I thought I would
bring this one up,

But

I was invited to a meeting
and this was a new dealer

that we were bringing on.

And we worked really
hard to get them a great

sales plan, a couple
of incentives,

lots of promises being
made, commitments,

and you know, big commitments
come big incentives, right?

So working through a nice deal,
putting together a package.

And I was invited to the
meeting and the premise of the

meeting was, yep,
guys coming on board.

This is going to be great.

We're going to sign contracts and
just welcome him to the brand.

Love it.

So I show up to the meeting
all excited, all chipper,

like this is going be
a great day, you know,

like I'm paying for lunch.

Everyone's going get
what they want, right?

And I meet the principal and
I shake his hand and I said,

you know, welcome to the family.

And he said, Oh, is
this a done deal?

And I said, is this not?

And it was very awkward.

And that is when I knew
that, unfortunately,

this was not a done deal and we had
a little bit more selling to do.

So immediately, you know,
backtrack that and, you know,

put on my my sales hat and
whatnot and and get to work.

But what I learned
later was that

the lower of coming to the
meeting was to make it,

you know, seem like
we had all of our

ducks in a row.

But unfortunately,

I think that got oversold
and a little overhyped.

What it did is exactly what you
said earlier is it just broke trust.

It broke trust in, you know,
how we set up meetings,

which customers we go visit to,

which customers we put
plans together with, right?

And we've got to have that.

So we're going to work on
that with my people and we're going

to get better at it.

But yeah, wow, you know,

nothing's worse than

being

you know, handed the alley
oop and just missing.

Miss. That's rough.

Well, here's what I If I could,

I thought I would just kinda
run through a role play with

you because
sometimes it's weird.

We're talking about all these
concepts, but we're like, hey.

How does this really work
in the real world? Right?

And so it let's like the

If we just kinda run through it,

and I'm I'm kinda making my
notes here because here's what

I would do when I walked
into a homeowner's house.

A lot of times I would have a
notebook or a notepad that's

got blank paper on it.

And so I'm walking in with
pen in hand and paper,

or maybe I've got an
iPad that I can walk.

But the the the body language
is I'm I'm gonna take some

notes, which conveys
to the other person,

you're gonna say
something important,

and I'm gonna write it down.

So I'm I'm letting them know
just by my body language,

they're gonna need
to do some talking,

because I'm here
to take some notes.

Right?

So a lot of times, if
we just ran through it,

here's what this would
sound like, I think,

in the residential setting.

So I would walk in the door
and I would say, hey, Mary.

I'm Steven. I'm with
Steven's Heating and Air Conditioning.

Appreciate you
inviting me out today.

Were you, you know,
were you expecting me?

I would say something
along those lines.

Now a lot of times,

I would probably have called
on the way to say, hey.

I'm fifteen minutes out.
I'm twenty minutes out.

I think in twenty twenty five,

maybe the best way to do that
is a text message like, hey.

This is Steven. I'm
with Stevens Heating and Air.

I'm on my way out.

I should be there at at
one fifteen or something.

But in theory, when I walk
up knocking the door, hi.

I'm Steven. Steven's
Heating and Air.

Were you expecting me today?

Just confirming
that piece of it.

And then I'm gonna I'm
gonna talk about time.

I wanna say, hey, Mary.

Typically, an appointment like
this takes sixty to ninety minutes.

Does that work for you today?

Where where do you I mean,

help me brainstorm on the
possible things that a

homeowner could say.

Like, what are some
of the ones like,

if where does this go off
the rails right there?

Or what do you do you think
most homeowners are like, yeah.

Right. Sixty, ninety minutes?

Well, I'm sure that most
homeowners are like,

it's is it really gonna take sixty
minutes or can you make it like thirty?

Because I I've got things to do.

Yeah. I think that's part of it.

I think sometimes people just flat
out say you got fifteen minutes.

A lot of times if if
we've done a good job,

and this is really kind of your
evaluating your processes as a

company, The person who
set the appointment,

whether it was on the phone
or maybe it was a service

technician or whoever,
did they say, hey.

These appointments
take about an hour.

We're sending a confirmation
email or a confirmation text

that should say, hey.

The appointment takes an hour.

So if we've done a pretty good
job kind of preparing that

customer, then when I
get there and I say, hey.

The appointment
takes about an hour.

It it should be okay.

But we do I get a lot
of just an hour, really.

And, again, I think a lot of that is your
competitors did a sales call in fifteen minutes.

And so they're like,

what did that guy do that what are
you gonna do that guy didn't do?

I totally agree, and I just
wanna also maybe add a kudos

to, you know, never give
autism away for free.

Putting that reminder and that
text message or that phone

call as part of your process,
that took time, right?

That took developing that process
that takes work to do those things.

Now, it might not be a lot of work
and depending on how savvy you

are with your systems
and processes,

maybe it's just one click for
that text message to go out.

But you never give awesome
away for free and make sure you

remind them that you
did that, you know?

So when you knock on
the door, you know, hey,

just checking in,

confirming you thought I was
going to be here and what time

do you think this
is going to take?

It's it's just an immediate recall
for the homeowner to be like, oh yeah,

I've had some interactions
with this company already.

Boom, done.

I mean, simple,
you know, that's,

that's a buzzy kind of concept
that is really simply done.

I

I think if you've been in
sales, and I'm I'm old now.

So I I this but back, you
know, back when I got started,

they would say things like, hey.

If the decision makers both
aren't there, reschedule.

If the homeowner's like, I
don't have an hour, reschedule.

And and that's changed today.

Here's why that's changed is if
they don't have an hour today,

they're not gonna
have an hour tomorrow.

If if they're if they're
stalling or objecting,

then just saying, hey.

Let's let's reschedule.

If if we don't resolve whatever
the underlying objection is,

then we don't reschedule.

And Sandler we've got some
corporate research that comes

out of our home
office in in Maryland.

And one of the things they'll
tell us is that a rescheduled

sales call never happens about forty
to forty five percent of the time.

So what I would tell
my sales reps is, hey.

We've spent two hundred and
fifty bucks to get you this

lead in between the Google
and the van wraps and the

billboards and everything else.

Right?

You're not rescheduling.

So we have to figure out what
can we do while we're there to

at least get the
next steps lined up.

So what what can't happen is
the sales rep show up the door.

The homeowner say, I
only got fifteen minutes.

And the sales rep says, okay.

Well, I'll have the office call
you to reschedule and get back in

your car and leave.

Cannot happen.

I think the other thing that
That's almost like, you know,

we call these people
like the wafflers, right?

That's almost like putting
them right in the waffle iron.

Like, no problem. Yeah.

I think the other thing is you can't
do a fifteen minute sales call.

Right? Because we
just said, alright.

If your competitors do that,
you walk around the house,

you're like, alright.

Three ton air conditioner,
ninety thousand BTU furnace.

How's the thermostat?
Your filter? Okay. Great.

Here's a price.

We've had zero chance
to build value.

We haven't
differentiated ourselves.

And so unless we're the
cheapest company in the market,

which we're never gonna be,

our closing ratios are gonna
be in the single digits.

So we we have to we can't do
a fifteen minute sales call.

We can't reschedule.
So what do we do?

And I I think the solution
there is to say, hey.

Let's take fifteen minutes,
see how far we get,

and then I'm gonna give
control to the homeowner.

So I would say, Mary,
in fifteen minutes,

you decide what
you want me to do.

Do you want me to come
back later to finish?

Do you want me to stick
around a little longer today?

Let's see how far we get
and see what happens.

And and so if they're gonna
give me if you're gonna give me

fifteen minutes, I'm a
take the fifteen minutes.

Now going back to
what we said before,

I have to then stop in fifteen
minutes and say, hey, Mary.

We're at about the
fifteen minute mark.

I might be able to give them
a better estimate for time.

Mary, I think it's only gonna
take about thirty more minutes.

It won't take the full hour.

You okay if I just
stick it out today,

or would you want
me to come back?

And so the way I view that is from
that bonding and rapport standpoint,

I I got I took the fifteen
minutes that Homer gave me.

I'm now earning the
next thirty minutes.

I gotta be able to earn
my next thirty minutes.

And I almost never have
had an issue with that

because I think most
of the time, the, hey.

I only got fifteen
minutes is a smoke screen,

especially if we told them the
appointment's gonna take an hour.

I I think that's I I honestly
know it's probably true.

And as someone who's probably
done that to an in home service

person at my own house,
I I I know it's true.

So Yeah.

That's a that's a
super fair point.

And I'm guessing that in

in that fifteen minutes now where
you need to earn next thirty minutes,

you're not just shooting the
breeze about how cute the dog

is and Yeah.

You know, how how hard
the weather's been. Right?

Like, we gotta get to work.

We gotta get to work,

which rolls into that agenda
piece that you were talking about.

And I I think I like to start
with the customer's agenda

because this is a little
bit of a verbal negotiation.

They want something from us,

and we want something from them.

You know? So what do
they want from us?

Well, they want a proposal.

They wanna know what
it's gonna cost.

What are my options?
What are my choices?

What are you what can I do?
What do we want from them?

Well, here's what I would say is
what I want from them is a decision.

I would love a yes,
but I'll take a no.

What I won't take is, hey,

I'll think about it and
get back to you. Right?

So I gotta be able to
phrase that politely,

but that's from an
agenda standpoint,

I'm thinking through, okay, if
we're going to ask for that,

what do we want?

What do they want?

Then let's get their agenda
out on the table first.

So a lot of times I'm
gonna say, you know,

at now at the heating and
air companies or the people

listening to this call,
maybe you guys run perfectly.

At my heating and air company,

we would occasionally
screw things up.

So the other purpose to
confirming the agenda is make

sure that the notes weren't
just copy and pasted from the

previous customer we screwed up.

But I would say
something like this.

Mary, I understand you've had
some trouble with your furnace.

You're looking to get
some pricing on a new one.

Is that correct?

That that's usually
kinda my my intro.

Which is a great intro. Right?

Because chances are
I didn't just cold

call a heating and air company.

So, you know,

and if I'm already telling
you I'm I'm stressed for time,

just just address my issue.

If all along the way,

you find more things that you
wanna maybe address with me,

maybe now I'm into it because
you're taking me seriously and

you're addressing my concern.

I think it's worth to hear and
and this is where, again, I

You

My first couple years
as a Sandler client,

I would have told you I did a
pretty good agenda step. Right?

But I wasn't great at it.

And this is one of the areas where
I would skip through really quickly.

So what I might do like,

here's an example of me doing
it poorly versus what I learned

to do later on.

You know, Steven might Steven one
zero one or one one point

o, I might have said
something like this.

Hey, Mary. Understand your
furnace has had some issues.

You're you're getting some
pricing. Is that right?

You say yes. And
then I'm like, okay.

Well, here's what
I need to do today.

And so I asked you a
yes or no question,

and it stopped right there.

And then I'm like, oh, well,
let me talk about myself.

And what I learned to do is
slow down a little bit and say,

Mary, you know,
sorry to hear that.

Tell me a little bit more
about what's been going on.

If I can get that customer
to talk a little bit,

share some history,

even just some follow-up
questions like, what else,

Mary, would you like to
talk about while I'm here?

Sometimes the homeowner didn't
think about anything else.

They're like, I don't know.

And I could say occasionally,
like, well, Mary,

sometimes people will say,
I'm curious about insulation.

Do I have enough in the attic?

We've got some other
rooms in the house.

Like, is there anything?

And I'm not selling any
of those things yet,

but I'm planting
the seeds that, hey.

Other homeowners sometimes
wanna talk about that.

Are are those any things?

Do you wanna talk about your air
conditioner too or just the furnace?

Do you wanna talk
about insulation?

Airflow in the house.

Do you wanna talk about filters
and pets or anything like that,

or we just kinda
look at the furnace?

I'm gonna come back and ask
those questions later because

I'm still in the agenda step.

But I'm just asking, Mary,

should do you think we should
put any of those on the agenda?

And so so me
slowing down, again,

it just made me more money.

It was hard to learn because
I wanted to just skip through,

but slowing, breathe
deep, slow down.

And the rule of three,

ask two or three questions as a
follow-up to that first question.

So I've gotta ask at least
three questions total in the

agenda step to really get that
person to open up a little bit.

I use this all the time all
the time in b two b as well.

You know, tell me a little bit about
what's going on with your business.

How has the year
been working for you?

And then like pause.

And this is a great technique
to get people to start opening

up because most people that
I meet with say, you know,

things have been good and
they're running pretty well.

And you wouldn't by
the sentence three or four,

they are talking
about a problem.

But they just started with,
oh, it's good. It's great.

You know?

And I think that's a little bit
of the human psychology too.

Like, I'm not just gonna come
out the gate and be like,

things are on fire
and everything.

If if once we close this office
door, I'm gonna start crying.

Like, that's not gonna happen,

but just tell me a little
bit about what's going on.

What are you seeing this year?

What have your observations
been and give them the

mic to talk and to give
you that information.

And then one thing I also have
done a little bit with the

agenda piece that I am
picking up from you as well is

so here are some topics that
I would need to address with you

today and that I
wanted to talk about.

Is there anything you wanted to
talk about during this time as well?

And this is maybe like
level two even for myself

because level zero was I
didn't even believe in agendas.

Now I started
incorporating agendas,

but I wasn't always
mindful that maybe

invitee had topics
to talk about.

And so now, like, you know,

my level two step has really
been to say like, okay,

I gotta chew through
these topics.

I know we have an hour together.

Is there anything you
might want to bring up?

Because I want to be
sensitive to your time.

And

it's even if in the
beginning of the meeting,

my client is saying
to me, you know, no.

That looks good.
Let's get started.

By the end of the meeting,

they've thought of something
that they wanna bring up.

Yeah. And that is okay.

We just gotta, you know,

check-in and do some of
that some of that talking.

You know?

You want it to be
conversational.

Yeah.

I think when when
my agenda comes out,

the one of the things I wanna
keep in mind with my agenda is

back to that concept
of building trust.

If I say if I just show
up at your house one morning at ten

AM, that doesn't build trust.

If I tell you that I'm gonna
show up at your house at ten AM

and then I show up at ten
AM, that builds trust.

Right? Yeah.

So the the same thing holds
true with the homeowner is we

could have a great process,

but if we don't tell the
homeowner what the process is

at the beginning, we've lost
the opportunity to build trust.

So under my agenda, if I'm
thinking through that mentally,

what I wanna do here is is tell
the homeowner what I need to do.

And so this is this is, again,

that kind of that
verbal negotiation.

What do they want? Well, I want
a price on a furnace. Okay.

Well, here's here's what I need to
do in order to get you that price

on that furnace that you need.

And and I tended to phrase it
a couple here's here's kinda my

run through for in home
sales is I would say,

Mary, first thing I'd
like to do, if it's okay,

is kinda sit and talk.

And then I'll describe
what does that look like.

Maybe we could sit in the living
room, kitchen table, wherever.

I gotta I can I put my bag down, put
my notebook out, take some notes?

Right? Sit and talk. I've
got some questions for you.

You probably got some
questions for me.

Mary, once I have a good idea of
kind of what your objectives here

are, then I'm gonna need to
walk around and take a look.

And, again, I'm gonna describe
what does that look like?

I mean, what when I say
walk around and take a look,

what am I looking at?

And, again, I keep in mind
that a lot of our competitors,

what are they looking at?

Well, they're looking
at the outdoor unit.

They're looking at
the indoor unit.

Maybe they look
at the thermostat,

and then they're gonna
give the homeowner a price.

Part of me differentiating is I
gotta look at the whole house.

That that's actually
a little different.

So even if the unit's
under the house,

I need to look in the attic.

Even if the unit's
outside, like,

I gotta walk around
the bedrooms,

and I'm gonna look and see
where the supply vents are.

And do we have enough supply
vents? Where are the returns?

Where do you change
your filters?

And so I'm I gotta describe
all of that to the homeowner

because that helps them
understand why I need an hour.

I'm gonna look and see where
you change your filters.

I'm gonna count the supply vents
and see where they're located.

I'm gonna measure the returns
to make sure we got enough air.

Tell them those steps that
you're gonna do so that when

you do it, you're earning trust.

Right?

So that's so I kinda phrase that
as sit and talk, walk and look.

And then at the end,
I'm gonna say, hey.

At the end, I'm gonna
give you what you want,

mister and missus homeowner,

which is I'll sit down with you
at that point then and kind of

review what the result is.

And I'm gonna I'm
gonna plant some seeds.

Like, one of the things
that we talked about is,

do we do a good job in our
industry of offering financing

to the homeowner?

And the answer is we don't
do a great job at it.

Even the companies that say we
do it often don't do it well.

So this goes back to that
begin with the end of the mind.

If at the end, I'm gonna
offer the homeowner financing,

I have to do it at the
beginning so that it makes

sense and lines up.

So my outcome step, I'm gonna
say something like this.

Mary, at the end, we'll
be able to sit down.

I'll have taken
some measurements.

I'll have a good idea of
what everything costs.

So we'll look at pricing.

There's some different models
that we'll look at and discuss

the differences and
pros and cons of those.

We'll talk through payment,
how people afford a system.

We you know, you may write a
check or put it on a credit card.

We work with the manufacturer
who has a financing program.

We can talk through that.
We've got some great promos.

Mary will also talk about
some manufacturer rebates.

There's a utility rebate
from your utility company.

There's a tax credit
available this year.

So I'm I'm throwing out these
hooks in the water from a

fishing standpoint to
see where I get a nibble.

And even if I don't get a nibble
on any of them right then,

I've I've planted those seeds so
we can come back and kinda

hit those later on.

So that I think that's key
is is kind of fleshing out my

agenda, explain to the
homeowner what I'm actually

gonna do, and then really
kinda hone in on the outcomes.

And it it might sound
a little bit like this,

and it it feels abrupt at first if
you've never done this on a sales call.

But going back to what you
said at the very beginning,

which is nos, I mean,
if we can get a no,

It

a quick no.

Boy, it it's helpful. It's
helpful for me in my career.

It's helpful for
you as the buyer.

So I'm gonna say
something like this.

Mary, at the end
of the call today,

here's kinda what we'll do
is if everything looks good,

you'll pull out your calendar.

I'll pull out my calendar.

I'll know at that point, does it take
us one day, two days, three days?

What are we doing? I'll be
able to tell you all that.

We'll look at the calendar to
see how far out are we booked?

When are you available?

One of the other
outcomes though, Mary,

is that you may say
something like, Steven,

I'm not interested in
moving forward with you.

And that's fine.

If you could just
let me know, Mary,

that way I'm not calling you
every other day to go, hey.

Did you make a
decision yet? Hey.

Because the last thing you want
is the sales guy bugging you.

Right?

So that that's one hand I'm
trying to get you to feel

comfortable saying no.

And then here's a little bit
of psychology where we would

call it equal business stature.

I gotta be able to say no too.

And so I might say
something like this, Mary,

if for any reason, I don't
think we would be a good fit on

this job, are you okay
if I let you know that?

And and just say, hey.

I don't think we're gonna
be a good fit on this,

and we might need to
back out or bow out.

And so that kinda levels the
playing field a little bit.

Yeah. Because you know how most
contractors back out of a job?

They just charge a crazy price.

Yeah.

And

And

or or and this you know
what's interesting talking to

homeowners and just go,

how's it going in your
buying experience?

I mean, I I have friends of mine
that complained to me about any type

of contractor at all.

They think it's all my
fault because whatever.

But I I had a I have a friend
who's trying to get some

electrical work done.

They've had three contractors
come out and look at it.

All three said they would get
back to them with a quote,

and weeks later, not a
single one of them has.

And they're just so frustrated.

And and maybe it's an example
of the contractor doesn't want

the work, or maybe
they're just too busy,

or maybe there's other
jobs they wanna do,

or maybe they're just sloppy,

and they're not good
business people,

and so they're losing
track of estimates.

But, you know, I think enough
people have had those scenarios

where if I said, hey.

If there's any issue on our end,

either we can't schedule you,
we're booked out too far,

we don't think
we'd be a good fit,

I'm just gonna let
you know upfront.

Is it okay if I would you
be okay if I let you know that?

And it it does a couple things.

I mean, one is it makes homeowners
kinda sit up sometimes and go,

well, why might I
not be a good fit,

or why would you turn
down my business?

Right? And I gotta be
prepared to explain that.

And one of the things I
would say is, well, Mary,

we do everything by the book.

And so we're gonna
have to pull a permit.

When we have a permit pool,
we gotta do inspections.

And so the reason for that
is that it protects you.

It protects us.

Occasionally, we have a
homeowner that would say,

I don't wanna pull
a permit because,

you know, whatever.

I wired up my back
garage myself,

and I don't want the code
inspector to see that.

Well, that's a problem for me because
he's gonna come out and inspect

the heating and air
electrical to see what we did,

and and he's gonna notice that.

So that would be a scenario
where I would say both as a

sales rep and as
a business owner,

we might not be a good
fit for this customer.

Because the last thing we wanna do is
do an install that's not up to code.

We have a problem. We burn
your house to the ground.

And now we're on the hook
because we did we did something

wrong because we
didn't pull a permit.

We shortcut the process.

So it's it's fairly easy to
explain that to a homeowner.

The problem isn't the homeowner.

The problem is salespeople are
uncomfortable talking about

outcomes at the beginning
of a sales call.

But I'm telling you,

there is nothing that made me
more money over the course of

my career in sales than being
gutsy enough to talk about

outcomes at the beginning
of the sales call.

And it it just gets people they
you're letting them know, hey.

Today, we're gonna
make a decision.

Well, we were gonna call
this podcast something like,

you know, business
basics or, you know,

setting effective meetings, but
maybe we should just call it,

like, how did Steven
make more money?

Well,

I mean, everything like,
psychology is great.

I like talking about psychology,

but all I really care about is
how's this gonna help me in my

day to day world.

Right?

And and so if it's just
not a bad thing either.

High in sky psychology,
fascinating.

If it's gonna help
me make more money,

now I'm paying attention.

So Let's go. That's true. No. I
I think I think it's all true.

And, you know, again, like,

our goal is never to approach
these topics as you know,

they're just so basic and
they're just so easy and you're

just gonna do it and
it's just gonna be great.

Like this does take practice
and it's self admittedly on

this podcast, right?

Like you and I were both
not good at this and

had to find ways to run some
reps and get better at it.

And, you know, for me,

it was talking out loud
to myself in my car a lot.

I like to rehearse like what
I'm gonna say a little bit so

that when I do it
with a customer,

it sounds more natural.

My general flow is to just treat

every conversation
like a conversation.

I don't like to, like,

put too much professional tone
on things because it doesn't

feel authentic to me,

and that's a huge part of my
personal branding is authenticity.

So practice, you know,
saying it out loud and

being being true to who you
are using words that you would

say that are appropriate.

But, you know, just
being being true to your

vernacular is really important.

And, and then along
with that too,

you know Getting comfortable doing
it over and over and over again.

I think that's one of the
advantages to in home sales

versus you know, when I first
became a client of Sandler,

I had some other people in the
class who were selling other things,

whether it was commercial real estate
or health insurance or whatever.

And they may work all week to
to prospect and find leads,

and and they really only ran,
say, two sales calls in a week.

Right?

Everything else was the activity
to get to the sales call.

Where within home sales, I was
running two, three calls a day.

And so a year later, two years
later, three years later,

my proficiency was much
better than some of my peers.

And then when I kinda took that
sales process into the b to b world,

I just was better at it than
a lot of my peers just because I

had more repetitions.

And but the practice is the key.

Right?

I mean, just doing something
repeatedly but sucking at it,

that doesn't help.

No. No.

Gotta improve. Right?

Yeah.

And and it's it's it's just
like anything that you're gonna

develop and be
better at over time.

You just gotta gotta
keep working on it.

And I think in I maybe what's
challenging for the same

reason, right, because
you're running more calls.

If you're not good at it
and you're not getting good

results, then it starts
to feel like, like,

why am I even doing this?

And this is so hard and
I'm never gonna get it.

And, you know, anyone who's ever
accomplished anything difficult has had that

feeling when they've started it.

Right?

Like, you know Yeah.

And if you, you know,

were trying to do something
in in that physical fitness space

or, you know, something
like that, it's like,

it's never easy to get
those first reps running.

Yep. Yep.

But then once you do it,

you get that sense of

accomplishment and you do it.

Well, there's no
gatekeeping here. Right?

I mean, we are just
talking about like real

strategies and real
conversations that we've had

around this, but
our goal to revisit

our desired outcomes is

to get people better
at these skills,

better at setting an agenda,

better at creating good
expectations and really calling

out objectives that are going
to get us to our desired end

result, which, really generally
speaking is a decision, right?

And it's either that quick
yes or that quick no.

Yeah.

It's probably the challenge.

I mean, if if sales
reps say, hey.

I'm struggling with
time management.

I'm struggling to
grow my territory,

or it's an in home sales
rep who's like, hey.

You know, my closing ratio is
low, the leads suck. Right?

I mean, I you know,

sometimes I hear those
types of things like,

this is really where we start
to roll up our sleeves and go,

how good are you at
that piece of it?

And again, it's it's not
the phone call I get.

The phone call I get is, hey,

help my sales guys
be better closers.

And the the reality of it is is a
lot of times to be a better closer,

you gotta be better the first
ten to fifteen minutes in the

house or better first ten,
fifteen minutes in the meeting.

And if you can get really,

really good at those
first ten minutes,

then closing gets a lot easier.

And so it's it it really is a
skill, and it's something that,

you know, if you don't if
you're thinking it's not a

skill, I just do it naturally,
don't have the skill.

It's something that
does take effort.

I mean, nobody's born with that.

It it's something
you gotta work on.

Definitely true.

Well, as always, Steven,

thanks so much for just sharing more
of your world and your insights.

It's always it's a treat for me.

So I hope our listeners agree.

That's fun to hear about,

your side of the the
business as well.

You ready for the email
address one more time?

I'm getting good at it.

Let's do it.

Do it. So we want
feedback. We want feedback.

Good, ugly, bad, but
topics of suggestions,

things that you think
we should be covering.

HVAC underscore full
underscore blast

at train technologies dot com.

Send us some feedback.

Perfect. He's Steven Ross.

I'm Mary Carter, and we
will talk to you next time.

Thanks.