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Welcome to The Full Desk Experience, a podcast for leaders in the staffing and recruiting industry. Hosted by Kortney Harmon, Director of Industry Relations at Crelate, this show is designed to provide insights and tips from a highly knowledgeable consultant in the field.
Join us live (or catch the replay) in our Workshop series, where Kortney delivers expert advice and actionable tips for you to take to your firms immediately.
In the Industry Spotlight series, Kortney interviews industry experts and leaders, highlighting their journeys to success and key insights into the staffing and recruiting industry.
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With new episodes dropping weekly, this is the perfect opportunity to stay up-to-date on the latest trends and best practices in the industry. Don't miss out - join us for The Full Desk Experience today! If you'd like to attend the live session, be sure to visit our website for more information.
Amy Yakowski [00:00:00]:
If you expect to change and it not impact the business, you are not going to change. You are not ready to change. So if we were talking about the measurements of change readiness, if you're not willing to have your business disrupted in at least a portion, and I will say a probably larger portion than you think, a portion, you're not ready and you don't have the palette for change at this moment because change of any kind, especially when we're talking about a digital transformation or an operational optimization, requires a lot of resources and time to get right, and it should hi, I'm.
Kortney Harmon [00:00:42]:
Kortney Harmon, director of industry relations at Crelate. This is the industry spotlight, a series of the full desk experience, a curlate original podcast. In this series, we will talk with top leaders and influencers, influencers who are shaping the talent industry, shining a light on popular trends, the latest news, and the stories that laid the groundwork for their success. Welcome back to another episode of the full desk experience. Industry Spotlight.
Kortney Harmon [00:01:14]:
Welcome back to another episode of the full Desk Experience. Selfishly, it's the podcast that brings you super valuable information and strategies for success in the dynamic world of staffing and recruiting. I'm your host, Kortney Harmon, and today I'm super excited about this episode because I have Amy Yakowski joining us. She is a change navigation expert, organizational transformation guru, and she's the founder and chief evolution officer of painted porch Strategies. So where she helps businesses chart the course through the Austin turbulent seas of change. So with her unique background, operational optimization. Tell me if I forgot something. Product design, software implementation.
Kortney Harmon [00:01:59]:
Amy brings it all with a powerful combination from tech expert to people focused strategies. And she's certified emotional intelligence, change management, team dynamics, and she's a true powerhouse in organizational development and art, industry in general and staffing or creating. So, Amy, thank you so much for joining us today. I am so super excited to have you. What did I miss about all your accolades and guru things that you do?
Amy Yakowski [00:02:24]:
Man, you made me sound really good. Thank you, Kortney. I am so thrilled to be here. I think you covered it. I wear a lot of hats. I've done a lot of things in staffing. I started as a staffer in a call center in New Orleans for healthcare staffing organization and I've just navigated all of the many different paths that staffing can take many of us through and finally landed here on my own painted porch that I started a few years ago to try to just continue to level up the industry, level up how we engage and invest in people and their success.
Kortney Harmon [00:03:00]:
I love that in our prep call, we really talked about change readiness versus change management today. I hope we can uncover the true definition of those pieces because I don't fully know your definition.
Amy Yakowski [00:03:17]:
That's okay. And to some extent that's okay because I made it up. So, you know, but I love it.
Kortney Harmon [00:03:22]:
And I'm excited and I think this is amazing to talk, a topic to talk about right now because people are starting to think about 2025. How can they best prepare? And honestly, this is something that people kind of put on the back burner. So I'm super excited to talk about this and your perspective and how we can get staffing and recruiting leaders in our industry in general to do better for their organizations.
Amy Yakowski [00:03:46]:
Yeah. Because the truth is the stats aren't really on their side. The odds are not in their favor when we think about change, change in general, but specifically change as an effort, as a project, as a transformation. There's different schools of thought here. Some people will probably in the comments say, no, that stat is incorrect, but I stand by it. That at least about 78% of change projects in some way fumble, fizzle or fail. Now, there's going to be people that argue and say it's not really 70%, it's probably a lot less than that. But the truth is that the 78%, they're not achieving what they set out to do in the way they originally set out to do it.
Amy Yakowski [00:04:30]:
So whether you want to measure success as you got over the finish line, and that's great, or you actually want to measure success as we got over the finish line and we ticked all the boxes and we achieved all the goals and objectives that we set out to realize, then that's where I think we can say it's probably closer to 78% of failure. Unfortunately, that's a crazy stat. Yeah.
Kortney Harmon [00:04:51]:
Before we dive into those two definitions and the processes, I kind of want to talk about your background a little bit because your background is unique after operational optimization and change management, talk to me about how those two areas of expertise really complement each other when it comes to preparing, staffing and recruiting firms for the future.
Amy Yakowski [00:05:13]:
Yeah, well, I mean, when we think about what it takes, what you need, what foundational pillars you need in place in order to successfully achieve any type of strategic initiative in a business. It's not just about one piece. It's not just about technology. We tend to look at it through the lens of technology often, but it's not technology that is really going to be the thing that moves the needle that moves you forward. It's going to enable what's already possibly in place or hopefully maybe gets a little bit better. But it's not going to be the silver bullet that we often think it is. And so the way I like to approach this is it's people and process before you embark on any particular change. So from an operational standpoint, I really like to look at what are you doing, what are you doing in your business? How are you executing and achieving your strategic goals, and are they aligned with what you say your values and vision and mission are of the company first and foremost.
Amy Yakowski [00:06:15]:
But then what people do you have in place? What are their capabilities? How are they going to be able to enable and continue to progress this change, this evolution, this transformation is growth in your organization. You need both. So that way the technology that you then bring in and introduce can help support and uplift all of those areas.
Kortney Harmon [00:06:35]:
All right, so you said, and this is funny because obviously being from crelate, we see this often, people only think of change happening whenever they're going to implement a new technology. We need to get the cat out of the bag. Give me some other examples to be like when you think of this, when you think of this, when you think of this, I need people to be like, oh yeah, that's me. I probably should be thinking about this a little bit differently. Or give me some other examples besides technology and a staffing and recruiting firm when they should be thinking of change and optimizing their processes.
Amy Yakowski [00:07:08]:
Well, me personally and selfishly, I would say as an organization, you should have a culture of change and innovation built in. Meaning at any and every opportunity you're continually inspecting and evaluating, is this the best way? Can this be done differently? What is holding us back? What is creating delays or barriers? So it's not just about technology. I mean, the reality is this is not Groundhog Day. We are not Bill Murray. We do not do the same exact thing every single day. It may feel like that sometimes, but the truth is, is that every day is a unique opportunity to how you approach what it is you do in your business. And so change is not just these massive big rocks like these big things that you are lifting and trying to roll up a mountain in your organization. It's the small things.
Amy Yakowski [00:08:02]:
It's the way maybe you're responding to an email. It's the way that you're handing off something from one person to another. It's those small moments where someone says, well, I never got that. Well, that was incorrect. Well, this we have to redo. All of those are opportunities to evaluate and say, can we tweak this and make it just a little bit better day in and day out? It's not just the big things. And I think especially right now in the industry, you know, we're feeling a little bit of, I'll say, rebalancing to a certain extent, but also some constriction. And so I think you could probably agree with this, Kortney.
Amy Yakowski [00:08:40]:
The palpability of dropping down a good chunk of change on new technology to some organizations is a little bit too steep to dig into their pockets to spend. But in this time, while you're waiting for maybe a new technology that you want to implement, this is the perfect opportunity to take and evaluate. What is it that we're doing today? And what with the tools and the people and the operations that we have available now, what can we do to just make it even better? So that way, when we can afford to invest the time, money, resources into a new technology, we are in a much better place. And we're not trying to both upgrade and transform our technology and completely redesign our operations at the same time.
Kortney Harmon [00:09:31]:
I love that. That is so true. And as much as we see firms and agencies doing stuff like this now, because they do have the downtime. So that's like that double edged sword, right? They do have the downtime now. It really comes down to those foundational pieces to map out your journey before it ever starts. Oh, yeah. So putting in that work and before you get in, it's like, kind of like getting the dumpster whenever you're getting ready to move so you can clean house, do all of it in one so you don't have crappy data, you don't have things coming over that you're not using. You're doing the right processes so things don't fall through the cracks 100%.
Kortney Harmon [00:10:12]:
I couldn't agree with you more.
Amy Yakowski [00:10:13]:
Yeah, I like that. Having the dumpster while you're packing, while you're preparing for your next move. That's a great analogy.
Kortney Harmon [00:10:20]:
I wouldn't want to do that now. We've lived here for too long. There would be multiple dumpsters. I love it. So talk to me about those key differences that you see between transitional change management and the concept of change readiness that you kind of focus on and what your definitions are between the two.
Amy Yakowski [00:10:38]:
Yeah. So traditionally. Well, let me ask you, when you think of change management, Kortney, what would you say you think of the traditional activities that change management involves?
Kortney Harmon [00:10:49]:
It's usually it's the concept of adjustment, of how we're approaching a new process, how often we're evaluating that process. It's not a set it and forget it. So when I think of change management, it's a continual thing in my mind, but it's the action of doing it in my mind.
Amy Yakowski [00:11:09]:
Yep. Yeah. And that's spot on. Change management is usually what kicks in once that thing, once that initiative, once that project, whatever it looks like, once it kicks off. And it's really at that stage about creating alignment, creating context, sharing information, keeping people abreast, communication, training, all of those pieces, and also all of it is in an effort to hopefully reduce risk and improve adoption. It's the thing that's happening in parallel to the project that's being executed really good. Change management is working in tandem with, not underneath a project. They are partners in this path towards progress.
Amy Yakowski [00:11:56]:
What change readiness is, is getting all of those people and systems and processes in place, well defined, clarified, prepared for when you actually fire the gun and say, go and kick off on your project. A little bit of backstory on why this idea of change readiness kind of came up for me was part of my background has been in technology. I've worked for, I like to say two and a half ats. One was acquired. So it kind of half one, two and a half ats in training and implementation and then in product design. And one of the key things that we do in those roles is we meet with our respective clients and we're helping them design what's next. We're sitting in conference rooms for weeks, sometimes months at a time, trying to think about and design the future, because we do not want to simply take what they are already doing today and shove it into a shiny new system, because it inevitably is going to not work as well, or not work exactly the same way as they did before. You cannot just do lift and shift if you want to create real transformation and progress and growth within your organization.
Amy Yakowski [00:13:15]:
But one of the things I kept seeing repeatedly over and over again is we would get in these rooms, we would meet for, like I said, weeks, months on end with very smart people, the smee of smees, the super smees of the organization, the key leaders within the business. And yet, we would constantly bump into struggles with thinking differently. We would constantly have conversations about, well, this is how we used to do it, and this is how it needs to work going forward. And sometimes having those conversations where I say, I'm like, I like to say I'm a huggable bear when I come into clients, I'm like, I am going to be there to push you. I'm going to swat at you every once in a while, make you feel a little bit uncomfortable. But in the end, I'm going to give you a hug because I want us to be successful together. But we would have these conversations where we were constantly bumping up against what is and struggling to think about what's possible or like I said, or trying to reinvent the wheel. And I said, you know what? I think there's a piece missing here.
Amy Yakowski [00:14:16]:
These people are very intelligent. They know their job, they know their business, they know their company, but they've not necessarily had to think about why they do what they do and think about what could make it better in the future as opposed to what's familiar to them today. And that was where I said, you know, I think we need this thing called change readiness, which is meeting with these individuals, evaluating their operations, getting really clear on their starting point, what they do today, and then through a lot of coaching and training and hugs, literally or figuratively, a lot of hugs. Helping them get comfortable with challenging the sacred cows, challenging the what is, and being able to effectively have more of a future focused mindset so we can design something completely new, completely innovative, and that is going to move their organization forward into the future as opposed to just upgrading the tools and the systems that they have today.
Kortney Harmon [00:15:13]:
Yeah. Otherwise it's the definition of insanity and the same thing.
Amy Yakowski [00:15:18]:
Very true. Very, very true. Yep.
Kortney Harmon [00:15:21]:
I love that thinking. And honestly, that's a great way. As you're talking to your clients, I'm sure it's like the precursor of what's going to happen and all the work that has prior to. So I love your definition. Thank you for explaining that for me. Let's talk pitfalls, because oftentimes we don't know what we don't know till we get in those scenarios. Right. So talk to me about your experience and maybe what are some common pitfalls you're seeing staffing firms encounter whenever they're trying to implement major changes or transformations within their operations teams, the key ones.
Amy Yakowski [00:15:56]:
And they're kind of two sides of the same coin. The first pitfall is trying to perpetuate what you're already doing today as part of, we'll use it from a technology lens, as part of a new technology adoption. You are inevitably going to bump into problems there. And I think you could probably agree, and I have been in those experiences where when all is said and done, this amazing technology that has these incredible capabilities sucks to the users that are being asked to utilize it because it is not the exact same experience, but just newer and shinier with cooler stuff in it, the perception of the value of that technology significantly diminishes along with adoption. I would say the other side of that is rather than trying to take what you already have today and just shoehorn it into a new system or new tech stack is at the same time you're trying to completely change how things are done, you're also completely redesigning your operations at the same time. In my experience, that's too much change. That is massively changing the entire infrastructure of the organization at once, and that is much harder to adopt then if you already had very sound operational processes in place that you did that pre work, because I like to say the phase zero work, you do that work first and then you implement the technology to support this new operational design. I think if you try to do it all at once, that's also a big struggle where it can significantly delay or impede the project's progress because you're trying to redesign everything, including the technology, all at once, or using the technology as the excuse for redesigning your operations, there's only so much we can all handle in our brains at any given time.
Amy Yakowski [00:18:00]:
And so if you really want to optimize the change, adoption, don't make it so much that it just becomes this giant boulder that people are having to hold up and support and move forward for you.
Kortney Harmon [00:18:14]:
That's a lot at once. I can only like just the change for the ATS itself. Remember, these people, you still want them to be successful at their day jobs of talking to people, executing and doing all the things, not just trying to figure out where a button is, what the new process is, having an SoP in front of them, their ability to walk, then run. They've been chopped off with the knees at that point.
Amy Yakowski [00:18:40]:
Yeah, that's a great way to say it. I mean, there's tons of other pitfalls, there's tons of other horror stories we can say, but I think those are the two big ones. You know, the other things are that we just see garbage data come in. Like there's all those pieces that you regularly see that are going to impact the level of success, the level of adoption that you see within any new change in your organization, whether it's technology or operations. But I think the biggest thing is if you do not involve the people and you do not prepare the people effectively. And when I say prepare, I don't mean a week of training right before go live. You don't effectively prepare these people to be open to and understand and embrace these changes that are going to be happening. It has to be something that is co created, co led, and is a conversation, not simply a directive.
Kortney Harmon [00:19:32]:
I have a question that we didn't really talk about. Do you find the organizations that have a dedicated operations role more successful than the ones who do not, that rely on their leadership teams just to function subpar? Do you find those organizations to be different and maybe more ahead, per se?
Amy Yakowski [00:19:54]:
Yes. In fact, I was just having a conversation about this last week with a prospective client. There is tremendous value in having an operational lead or even a center of excellence division within your organization. The staffing firms that I've worked with that I would say are enterprise or emerging enterprise. But even in the smaller the staffing firm that I originally came from, american nursing, way back in the day, my role eventually I started in the call center at 330 in the morning, staffing nurses from Alaska to Miami. You know, that was my job. But eventually I moved on and became their system administrator, and my role was to be that operational representative. I was the person that understood everything that was going on with the business, from new business development all the way to, you know, invoicing, collections, payroll.
Amy Yakowski [00:20:56]:
I was that representative so that way I could speak to what the business was doing, but also have that hat of what does the technology need to do in order to support that? It is such a critical role, and I'm probably a little bit biased because I've done it, but I've seen where organizations that have this in place, they have a dedicated operational liaison, if you will. They are the conduit between the business and your partners that you're working with, whether it's technology or implementation or otherwise. But to have that individual, have that person that serves as that interpreter, I'll use that term, and that knowledge, that expertise is so critical versus having it dispersed across various leaders who are operating in their own lanes. But having that one person who is the overseer, that is going to be one of the keys to driving really successful change, but also ongoing operational excellence in your organization.
Kortney Harmon [00:21:58]:
What do you tell firms and agencies that are like, well, I'm just not big enough to have someone like that. You talked about, you were a small firm. What's that tipping point to be like? You should start thinking about this then, because there's a lot of listeners. We do have enterprise listeners, but we do have a lot of small to mid market organizations that are like, just on that verge. Like, do you have any, like, words of advice to what that tipping point might be? For them.
Amy Yakowski [00:22:21]:
I don't think it's necessarily like, oh, once you hit a certain dollar amount or once you have a certain number of opportunities or candidates that you have out in the field. I don't think it's anything like that. It's really, do you want to have an aligned system and aligned operations or not? I mean, that's the bottom line. I'm probably being a little bit cheeky here, but I believe that that's the truth. I think you are never too small to not have someone whose sole job is to be focused on operational excellence. Because if you have this split up, even if they say, oh, we're small, you know what? We can have a recruiting people focus on this and our new business development focus on that. They care about their lane, they care about their stuff. They're not thinking about the organization holistically.
Amy Yakowski [00:23:14]:
And if you don't do this, you're going to immediately start to have bottlenecks. You're going to start to have these sacred cows that cannot be challenged. And you need that individual, that objective person that is in the middle who is comfortable challenging both sides, but also really focusing on holistically. What does the organization need in order for it to operate effectively?
Kortney Harmon [00:23:37]:
I love it. Thank you for your insight. So I can get back on our regularly scheduled questions now.
Amy Yakowski [00:23:43]:
Ch ch change. Yeah.
Kortney Harmon [00:23:46]:
So obviously these people, whether it's operations people or the idea, it's just in the mix at the moment. Talk to me about early warning signs for leaders to look for that indicate that the firm might not be ready for change as they need to be today.
Amy Yakowski [00:24:05]:
Yeah. So we look at it probably through a slightly different lens than maybe how you might traditionally think about it. When we're assessing readiness for an organization, we're looking at how are the individuals and the teams operating? And what I mean by that is we look at things like individual mindset. How do your employees feel when they show up to work every day? Are they excited? Are they drained? Do they understand how their role aligns with the organization's goals and purpose and vision? We look at the teams. How are the teams working together? Are they a team in name only? Or do they actually work and collaborate with one another to try to drive progress forward? How do they talk to each other? Are they communicating? In what ways? Are they comfortable with giving and receiving feedback? Are they comfortable calling things out on the mat? These are the type of things that we look at to see as signals, because those truly are the biggest risk to capabilities of any organization, to be able to successfully change or even make any small tweaks within their operations. Do they trust the organization? Are they happy with their job? Do they have support? All of those things are going to be the true definers of whether or not when you flip the switch, do your big project kickoff. If people are like, yeah. Or they're like, nah, passed.
Amy Yakowski [00:25:36]:
Not interested.
Kortney Harmon [00:25:37]:
I'm too tired for this round.
Amy Yakowski [00:25:39]:
Yeah. Yes. Yeah. No, thank you. Next please.
Kortney Harmon [00:25:45]:
It sounds like there is a lot that you work with these organizations to really understand the nuts and bolts of what's going on behind the scenes in order for it to be successful. When you're ready to go again, that pre work to be done, level zero. Amazing.
Amy Yakowski [00:26:00]:
Yeah. When we talked before, you said, do you have any stats? And I'm like, oh yeah, I got stats on stats. I love stats. So. So I'll give one of them just to paint this a little bit. The average spend for any type of change related work relative to the overall project budget is usually less than 5%. And from my perspective, that is a pretty significant risk because 100% of your ability to have a successful change is based on whether or not these individuals and your processes and your operations are prepared and ready and able to execute change. So this big project, some of them we know that are sometimes in these seven digits or more, they are spending and dedicating tiny, tiny fraction to essentially the thing that will help better set them up for success.
Amy Yakowski [00:26:59]:
So just a little nugget to chew on there. I love stats.
Kortney Harmon [00:27:03]:
Those are amazing.
Amy Yakowski [00:27:05]:
I got more of you on. We can do it. We can do like a stat, like really like lightning round towards the end.
Kortney Harmon [00:27:14]:
You can give me a moment. Obviously, as we look at our industry, there's so many things that are the same, but it's rapidly evolving. So with that being said, what are some of those key changes that you anticipate firms that are needed, what they're going to need to grapple in the next, like one to three years? I know that's like, I know you don't have a crystal ball, but from your perspective, what are things that are, you know, what are you going to have to channel for the next one to three years?
Amy Yakowski [00:27:44]:
Well, from my lens, I think it's really going to be what differentiates you at the end of the day, truly getting clear on what makes you stand out and what you are willing to do to stand out. I'll be pretty frank. Most of the conversations that I have with organizations, when they talk about their differentiators, they're the same as everybody else. We care about our clients, we value the worker, we invest in their success, or blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Whatever those catchy phrases are that some marketing person told you to say, heads up, everybody's doing that. And that's just being a good human being. If you truly want to stand out amongst the sea of competition, I would say the biggest thing is they are going to have to double, triple, quadruple down on things that make them truly unique. You know, I just recently started following in the last couple years.
Amy Yakowski [00:28:45]:
I'm kind of obsessed with the savannah bananas. I don't know. Are you familiar? Yes. Yeah, of course. You're a sports family. Of course you know the savannah bananas. Yeah. So they are doing something truly unique, and they're also willing to try things and see whether or not they succeed or fail.
Amy Yakowski [00:29:03]:
I just recently read Jesse Cole's two books. He has one called stand out and another called own your yellow tux. That's the first one. And then the second one is fans first. I would encourage any organizational leaders to read those books because it will help you tap into your playful, creative people first mindsets and really start to craft some new ways that you can serve. It doesn't have to be gimmicky, right? People don't necessarily want gimmicks. People want belonging. They want to be excited.
Amy Yakowski [00:29:38]:
They want to feel valued. And I think that there's really creative ways that organizations can do that that don't cost a lot. They don't have to cost a lot, but also can be something that they can just try. You know, one of the things Jesse says is, he said, every single time we do a bit or we try something, it is the first time we're doing it and we're willing to try it. And at the end of the night, say, what do we think? Did it work? Did it not? Yay. Nay, yay. Okay, maybe let's try to adjust it a little bit, or let's try a different flavor of that. If not, all right, what would we do differently? Or do we just want to put that in the trash bin and say, that was a nice one that we tried? Moving on.
Amy Yakowski [00:30:19]:
I think the idea of being willing to experiment and willing to try new things is going to be one of the biggest mindset shifts that I think a lot of staffing organizations will need to do in order to stay relevant, in order to pivot when the market demands it, and in order to stay agile and growing in an exponential way, instead of looking behind and or, you know, looking and wondering why are they left behind. I think that's one of the biggest things that they need to do. And it's really all about, like I said, tripling down on how you differentiate yourself, but more specifically how you're creating meaningful connections with the people that you serve.
Kortney Harmon [00:30:57]:
I love that. I don't love that. You just added two books to my read list. But that's.
Amy Yakowski [00:31:02]:
They're easy reads. They're easy reads. I would start with your yellow tuxed and then I would go to fans first. Yellow tux is kind of about like you and your mindset as a leader or as a business owner and then fans first. Is then okay for your organization? What are you going to do to try to challenge the status quo and stand out and be memorable?
Kortney Harmon [00:31:21]:
I think that's great advice. I worked with a lot of companies and coached a lot of companies, and I joke that everybody thinks that their value prop is they've been in business for 25 years. No one cares. That's not what you're doing for them. As much as it's a good insight. Yes, it shows your stability as a business, but that's not your value prop. So I love thinking about doubling down on this because information is at our fingertips. It's on overload for people with AI and all the tools out there.
Kortney Harmon [00:31:49]:
So really coming back to yourself to think, how am I doing this differently? Is amazing. So I love. That was a great piece of advice. Think beyond organizational development for a minute.
Amy Yakowski [00:32:03]:
Okay.
Kortney Harmon [00:32:04]:
How can individual staff professionals better prepare themselves, not just the organization, but themselves? Because it's a mindset, too.
Amy Yakowski [00:32:13]:
It is.
Kortney Harmon [00:32:14]:
Needing part of an organization and going through the grind is a mindset. So how can they prepare themselves to thrive through constant change?
Amy Yakowski [00:32:24]:
Oh, well, I'm going to do a shameless plug. Call me, we'll talk through it. Cause we do offer programs for individuals as well as for organizations and teams. But you're right, it's very much focused on you and the mindset and adopting a mindset that is focused on innovation, growth and agility. And at the painted porch, we really have like three key pillars that we focus on when it comes to the training and the coaching and the advisory that we give. And it's number one on your mindset and your self awareness and emotional intelligence. Emotional intelligence is such a, I'm going to say tool, but I don't want it to seem like tool, but it's such a powerful piece of information that if you understand where you are today and what on the dials of the radio, maybe you need to adjust here and there in order to effectively show up as your most authentic, emotionally resilient and effective self, both personally and as a leader. I mean, that is like the secret sauce to being able to effectively navigate through change.
Amy Yakowski [00:33:34]:
We also talk about, how are you communicating? How are you sharing ideas and information? You're right. Information abounds. In 2024. There is information and words in our faces all day, every day. So how can you stand out from all of that noise and make an impact and be heard? That is going to be a critical skill to help you personally thrive. But also, if you are a leader or if you are part of a team to help you collectively understand where you need to go and why, knowing that attention spans keep shrinking. And there's a lot of baloney out there that you have to weed through as far as information. And I would say the third piece in our pillars is about how do you work with other people? How do you navigate this world of other human beings? Because guess what? Even though we have a lot that we can potentially offset with an AI agent of some sort that maybe we leverage from a technology standpoint, we still need to be able to interact with and effectively work alongside our fellow humans and finding ways to understand within our team, how can we be exceptional? How can we be, I like to say extraordinary in what we do and how we work together.
Amy Yakowski [00:34:53]:
I think those are the three key skills that are going to help propel an individual and their success as they move forward in this crazy world that keeps evolving and keeps changing every single day, whether we're ready for it or not. But help you be more resilient, more present, more purposeful, more energetic as you navigate this changes that keep getting just thrown in our face every single day.
Kortney Harmon [00:35:18]:
It's a lot, and I love that. I love the self awareness and the accountability of the individual because so many times we often associate ourselves with the team. It's like, well, there's nothing we can do about it. And in reality, there's a lot we can do about our own journey to address those turbulent waters. So I love that. Great advice. I love your three pillars. So think about leaders.
Kortney Harmon [00:35:40]:
What are some practical, actionable steps that you would recommend staffing leaders to take to start building more of the change ready culture? Obviously, those probably three pillars still apply, but obviously it's a culture environment that we need to create for more success. What are some actionable steps that you would tell leaders to take?
Amy Yakowski [00:36:03]:
The first thing I would say, and this is one thing that we really focus on when we have our change ready leader programs that we do is understanding the different personalities or different styles of change. Change is not a monolith. No single person approaches, interprets, embraces change in the exact same way. And so if you can understand the different styles or different hats of change that might show up in your organization, I think that's the first foundational piece to effectively being able to lead your team and your organization through change. Recognize that not everybody needs to hear it in the same way, that they interpret it in the same way, and that they need the same type of information in order to create alignment and context, not necessarily consensus, but context and alignment around the change that is happening. When we think about this idea of resistors, you know, the resistors that we kind of want to avoid or we just want to over explain to them and hope at some point that they've changed their mind. I don't know if you've ever had your mind changed by someone just monologuing at you and just throwing facts on facts on facts. That's usually not how people's minds change.
Amy Yakowski [00:37:18]:
Even though we like to think we're thinking beings who feel, we're actually feeling beings who think. So if you understand the emotional component that is going into change, that it's really not a technical problem that needs to be solved through doing the, like the, you know, like at the car dealership, the thing that goes like this and like putting a bunch of pizzazz on the change, not selling it to the cheap seats, if you will, but actually making it a conversation, that's going to be the key. So first and foremost, know the different change styles that you have within your organization. There's some tools. Wink, wink. I have some, but there's some tools that are available that can help you understand the different styles that exist. But then with that, getting really good at how you communicate with those different styles, that is going to be the key. And understand that it is not a directive, it is not a sales pitch.
Amy Yakowski [00:38:12]:
It is a conversation where you have to be welcome to and comfortable with bi directional feedback and some challenges along the way. I read something recently that I absolutely loved. It says, you can preach to the choir or you can preach to the congregation, the people who are already there, who are ready and willing to accept the message. But you also need to get out of the church and talk to the heathens as well. And I think that's true when we think about those people, those resistors, right. So often come to mind because people who resist resistance is not a type of person. Resistance is simply a response. It's just them not fully understanding, feeling ready for having the necessary information, feeling the right amount of alignment or involvement in the change that's happening.
Amy Yakowski [00:39:04]:
That's really what it is. Yeah. There's usually like 5% that are just sticks in the mud. But I. The majority of people are not resisting just to be difficult or because they don't like change. It's because there's something there that you haven't tapped into yet to help them understand.
Kortney Harmon [00:39:18]:
And when you don't have the conversation, they create their own narrative in their own head, and it might not be the right one just merely because you haven't had the conversation. So.
Amy Yakowski [00:39:29]:
Yep.
Kortney Harmon [00:39:29]:
I love that.
Amy Yakowski [00:39:30]:
And the earlier you can do it, and the earlier you can do it, the better, I would say, thinking about the pitfalls earlier, one of the other really big pitfalls that I will call out is that change is not something that you do later in the project. It's not the thing that you say, okay, for ten weeks before go live now we're ready to start doing change. Heads up. Change has been happening from even before you kicked off this project. There's been conversations, there's been assumptions, there's been a narratives that have already been written that are pretty well written at this point, especially if you're not doing change until very close to the end. Change is actually something that should happen even before all of this. Right? That, like, say that phase zero. So that way those conversations are starting as early and are happening as often as possible to keep people aware, but also so that way, you're controlling the narrative as well.
Kortney Harmon [00:40:29]:
Okay, so, last three questions. So my question to you is, can you give me an example or share an example of how you helped a staffing client navigate a major technology implementation, or sips, to migration with really minimal disruption? Because that comes at a cost. And zero disruptions, I'm sure, are non existent. So talk to me about an example that you've had.
Amy Yakowski [00:40:57]:
So I will say right out the gate. Cause I know when I chuckled when you sent me this question before, minimal disruption is almost impossible if you want to change in any meaningful way. Right? And you did call that out. So I think I wanna just get that out right at the beginning to say, if you expect to change and it not impact the business, you are not going to change. You are not ready to change. So if we were talking about the measurements of change readiness, if you're not willing to have your business disrupted in at least a portion, and I will say a probably larger portion than you think a portion, you're not ready, and you don't have the palette for change at this moment, because change of any kind, especially when we're talking about a digital transformation or an operational optimization, requires a lot of resources and time to get right. And it should. If you think that this is something that you can meet in a room for three days, design your whole future, and boom, you're done.
Amy Yakowski [00:42:03]:
I would pray for you for your future, if I'm going to be completely frank, because this is designing your entire operational processes or the entire technology that is going to support them. So first and foremost, it's going to disrupt, and you need to plan for it. You need to recognize that in order for this to be successful, you need a project manager, you need that role. You also need an operational lead who can serve as your change lead. You need those two roles. Those are probably the two full time roles that you absolutely need. But in addition to that, if you are pulling leaders and subject matter experts off of their regular jobs and asking them to help co create and design your future, which is the only way that it will be successful. If it's something that you just offload to somebody like me, yeah, I'm going to design something great, but no one's going to adopt it because it's not theirs.
Amy Yakowski [00:43:02]:
It's not their design, it's not their ideas, it's not aligned with what they believe or they think, the values of the organization. But recognize that if you're going to pull these people off, that you need to make adjustments to what is expected of them in their current roles. I hear so often when I work with businesses, I'm very frank upfront. I'm like, if you think this is just a little bitty project, it is not. It is an endeavor that we are going to be going on together and it's going to require time for your people. And if you tell me I can't pull them off of their job or off of their role for more than a half a day or a day, it's not going to happen or it's going to take twice as long. So sorry, that was a really long precursor to how do you minimize disruption? With that being said, though, the way that you can best minimize disruption within an organization is to do this readiness work. So doing this work, this phase, zero readiness work, where we are helping people understand the challenges that change can prevent, helping them develop a growth mindset, helping them understand how to work with other people that maybe they haven't had to work with, getting comfortable with healthy conflict, learning how to challenge the status quo, as well as evaluating your operations and finding opportunities to tweak what you're doing now in preparation for what you're going to change in the future.
Amy Yakowski [00:44:32]:
Those are the ways that you can minimize disruption once you actually then kick off this new project that you're going to go with in. Because ideally what should happen is that when you kick off this project, again, we'll say mainly technology driven, but not always. But when you kick it off, the foundation is in place. People are already primed and ready. In fact, they're leaning forward to talk about what's possible. And so those conversations happen quicker. Those decisions get made more effectively. Progress is moving at a steady pace.
Amy Yakowski [00:45:08]:
You're not having to pause and do this complete reevaluation of something that you're doing today, or you're at a standstill because what you thought you did is not actually what you do. And so all of that gets delayed. Those are really the pitfalls that happened and that are the biggest disruptors in projects. When they haven't done this preparatory work, when they just think they can kick it off. Day one, bring people in a room, all right, we're creating something new. Tuck in. That's when things get disrupted. That's when hair starts going on fire.
Amy Yakowski [00:45:43]:
That's when you have a lot of resistance. That's when people start pushing back. And that's when projects keep going longer and longer and longer and longer, and budgets get bigger and bigger and bigger and bigger because you don't have the preparatory work done. I always say you can take the time now or you're going to take the time later. And take the time later is going to cost you a whole lot more because all of those costs that started the moment you kicked off this project, they just keep recurring. Those costs keep recurring and inching up and up and up. So the best way and the way that I've helped organizations is to really get this change readiness piece first, this foundational work done. So that way, when you're ready for that next phase, it's almost like we've talked about this, Kortney, before, but I remember back when I worked at the ATS, I'm like, if I was an implementation consultant and an organization said, here we've designed what we're going to do.
Amy Yakowski [00:46:43]:
We have alignment within our organization. Everybody is ready to make this happen. You essentially are handing them a blueprint for success. And when you hand that blueprint to the implementation team, your future state, process design, maybe even to the extent your data cleanup that you've done, your mapping, all of that, that implementation is lickety split. That could happen in like six weeks and you would be ready to go because all it is, is now it's a technology that is supporting all of this really good foundational work that you've done that is going to just enable your organization to operate even more effectively and more efficiently than what it was prior.
Kortney Harmon [00:47:25]:
I love that as you were talking, and I'm going to do this quote, no justice because I don't know it per se, but it's like the idea that those that think they have no time for their health will sooner or later have to make time for their illness. And this is the same concept. This is the prevention versus the diagnosis of failure or sickness or illness or whatever that looks like. But that was just the picture you painted in my head as you were talking, that it is, it's a requirement. So I love that. I think that my next question goes hand in hand, and I'm not trying to lead a horse to water, but just what I've seen. Bear with me. Staffing firms oftentimes, you know, that maybe don't do change well or they don't have good processes.
Kortney Harmon [00:48:15]:
They oftentimes may not have good culture in return of that. They often struggle retaining top talent for their own teams. So what advice would you offer staffing firms who are struggling to retain those top players during periods of significant organizational change? Because us as humans don't always like change. So how do you combat that with their own internal teams?
Amy Yakowski [00:48:42]:
Well, I would say it, I'm going to sound like a broken record to a certain extent, I believe, but it really comes down to investing in their development. They always say, you know, people don't leave bad jobs, they leave bad bosses. And I think to a certain extent it's true, but also they leave when they don't feel that what they're doing is aligned with their purpose or they don't feel that their role, they don't understand or see how their role is in support of the organization. They just feel like a cog in a wheel. That's really when your attrition, if you're starting to see that your attrition is really high, there's usually a couple key signals. Either you don't invest in skill development and capabilities. And when I say skill development, yes, it can be like the how to recruit better or how to make better sales calls. But it's more about that individual development, that personal development, developing the right mindset for innovation, for growth, for resilience, for stress management, for emotional intelligence, all of those pieces, if there's a low investment in that, often people are going to leave.
Amy Yakowski [00:49:50]:
Because as much as we like to think, if you just pay them enough, they'll stay day, the truth is, is that that is not the case. And especially, I'm going to sound like a boomer at this point, but especially with the younger generation, you know, there's definitely a desire for a greater purpose to what they're doing. So if you haven't created that connection, if you have a mission and nobody knows what it is, if no one can repeat it, if your values are just a pretty picture on a wall and they aren't, as Patrick Lencioni likes to say, verbst, your value should be verbs, not just words. If those are the things that are leading to your attrition, if trust in the organization is low, these are the things that you need to invest in first culturally before you try to embark on any type of change. Yes, the change itself, the thing change is an event. The thing is going to happen. The technology is going to go live, the new job is going to get put in place, the new leader is going to be there, the new operational process is going to happen. But success doesn't happen in the change.
Amy Yakowski [00:50:56]:
Success happens in the adaptation and the adoption of that change of these individuals. So unless those individuals have the capabilities, the courage to move forward and to actually step into this change, it is going to be a struggle and you are going to continue to have problems across your organization. You may on paper have really great revenue numbers, but your culture sucks and it's going to eventually catch up with you and you're going to wonder why you're struggling so much to change, or maybe why you've tried to make some sort of change in your organization and stopped and started multiple times. I've had some organizations where I've come in and they were trying to make a change for seven years, and it just kept starting and stopping. They started, they stopped, restarted. Try it again, try it again, try it again. It's like, okay, now let's do it for real this time, but to do it for real, we're not going to start at phase one. We're going to start at phase zero.
Amy Yakowski [00:51:57]:
We're going to lay this foundational work first with your people and your processes to make sure that you have that readiness, both from a mindset and an execution perspective, so that way now we can design something for the future better together.
Kortney Harmon [00:52:10]:
I love that. Great words of advice, looking ahead to 2025 and beyond, what emerging trends or innovations do you see reshaping the way successful staffing firms operate?
Amy Yakowski [00:52:24]:
Okay, well, I will call out right now that even though I have a technology background, I definitely say, don't come to me for tech advice necessarily. There are plenty of other people who. That is their jam, and I strongly encourage you to talk to them. However, I can see from my little spidey senses, the things that I pick up or that I'm seeing happening as trends is really this shift from process to people. And I don't mean that, like from what we do, necessarily, but I mean from the way businesses will execute. We focus so much on how we do what we do or the tools that we use to do it. And maybe we've said, you know, the people are just like NPC's, you know what I mean, in our organizational game. But I think going forward, there's going to be a lot more need and a lot more focus on the human pieces of what makes an organization stand out.
Amy Yakowski [00:53:28]:
Going back to what we talked about before, there's going to be so much technology that is going to be there to help support the things that people would normally define as part of their job. And that's another key piece which we can talk about in a minute. But what they define as part of their job, but really, the skills and the capabilities and where the future is going, I think is going to be much more shaped on the relationships that people can create, both within their own organization, but within the people that they serve. And I know that's not an innovative thought. That's. People have been talking about that for a really long time, but I really see that now is the time where it's really going to, where we're really going to mean it. And we're going to have to mean it because there's so many pieces that can be done.
Kortney Harmon [00:54:12]:
Yeah, I love that. All right, hit me with any other stats that you haven't given me throughout since we're number nerds here. What else you got?
Amy Yakowski [00:54:22]:
All right, you ready? Anyone who's listening, get out of pen. This is some good stuff. So when we think about change, like I mentioned, there's, you know, like, again, debatable, but I'll say in the seventies, 70% of change initiatives don't happen in the way that they originally intended them to happen. Right. And those that do cross the finish line, only about two and a half percent achieve all or most of the original goals that they set out to achieve. And I think we can both say. We've seen that over years with projects that we've been involved in. Only 26% of employees and leaders have cited feeling that they are equipped and ready to take on change when it is presented to them.
Amy Yakowski [00:55:09]:
And over 73% of employees and leaders have reported experiencing moderate to high levels of stress and burnout in their job. So when we think about that and then we add change on top of it, are you showing up as your best self? Are you bringing your best ideas? Are you tolerating when someone challenges you or asks you to think differently about what you're doing? Or are you just back to what we talked about before? Pass. I can't even. Right now, this is just another meeting. Can we just get this done? I really don't care. Whatever it takes to move it forward, just move it forward. To me, that's just as someone who had some really great products and you, Kortney at Creele, have an amazing product, it breaks my heart when people are going through these initiatives and they get to the end and they're worn out and they could not care less, and they just want to go about their day and have a vacation and sleep in their bed and just not have to think about it. You want them to get to that moment that go live.
Amy Yakowski [00:56:17]:
It's not the finish line, it's the base camp, right? You want them to get to that first level of base camp and be excited for what's possible and what's going to help them feel more successful in their job and what they're doing. And if they're burned out and we're not giving them the resources to help them navigate and stay resilient, then that's a failure on us. And just going back to the dumpster, just throw a bunch of money in a dumpster and light it on fire. And I got one more for you.
Kortney Harmon [00:56:43]:
Okay, give me one more.
Amy Yakowski [00:56:44]:
All right, one more. So when we think about the idea of successful projects and what is success, you know, I think that's something that maybe we could even double down and triple down, spend a little bit more time on defining what success looks like. But if we look at it from a pure sense, 64% of projects fail due to poor execution. People not knowing what they're supposed to do, where they're supposed to go, how they're supposed to make it happen, and then that burnout that we see, and for those CIO's, CTos and CFO's who might be listening, 68% of projects are delivered over time and over budgethouse and then the final one, which is my, just like my pitch here, that a structured, well defined, pre planned change readiness program can increase the roi of any change project by 143%. So just throwing that one out there, spend a little bit more scratch up front, prepare your people, prepare your processes, prepare your systems, and you'll have a much better roI. And you won't, everyone won't be just standing at the end in tears and exhausted and sort of adopting what you've put out there.
Kortney Harmon [00:58:01]:
I love it. Thank you for those stats. I am a staff nerd. So there you have it, listeners. Amy on her insights for change readiness. Preparing for the future of staffing is truly game changing. Phase zero, is it, guys? Phase zero. Now, if you want to learn more about Amy or connect with Amy, we're going to put her LinkedIn in the show notes.
Kortney Harmon [00:58:27]:
You can also visit her website, I believe it's paintedportstrategies.com dot. We'll link that in the show notes. All right. Any place else they need to follow you, Amy, besides LinkedIn and on your website and YouTube. You have a YouTube channel?
Amy Yakowski [00:58:40]:
I do have a YouTube channel. I would say start there. And truly, if you just have questions, as I like to say, if you're change curious, if you're like, I know that this is something that we need to do in our organization, or I'm starting to feel a little worried about our capabilities for our team and our organization to execute this change, whatever it is, even the small things, especially in this economy, in this market. If you're curious and you're just like, where are we at? Just reach out to me. You can dm me on LinkedIn and I would happy to jump on a call and just chat with you about where you're at. No sales pitch at all, just to talk about where it is you're at and maybe some tips of where you can go or how you can start to lay that foundational groundwork.
Kortney Harmon [00:59:22]:
Well, thank you, Amy, for sharing your expertise today. And thank you for our listeners for tuning into another episode. Remember, embrace your change readiness. It could be the key to your firm success in 2025 and beyond. Until next time. And Kortney Harmon signing off. Keep running those full desks and striving for excellence.
Kortney Harmon [00:59:45]:
I'm Kortney Harmon with Krilate. Thanks for joining us for this episode of Industry Spotlight, a new series from the full Desk experience. New episodes will be dropping monthly. Be sure you're subscribed to our podcast so you can catch the next industry spotlight episode and all episodes of the full desk experience here or wherever you listen.