Lion Counseling Podcast

🎙️ Episode 67 – Why Your Sex Life Feels Stuck (And How to Fix It Without Trying Harder)

If your sex life feels stuck, it’s probably not because there’s no attraction—it’s because something is getting in the way.
In this episode, Mark Odland and Zack Carter break down one of the most misunderstood dynamics in marriage—through both psychological insight and a biblical framework for love, trust, and leadership as a husband.

Using a powerful framework called the “Gas vs. Brake” model, they explain why many men feel rejected—even when they’re trying their hardest—and what actually creates desire, connection, and intimacy in a healthy, God-designed marriage.
This is a direct, honest, and deeply practical conversation for high-achieving Christian men who want to lead well in their marriage—not just perform better.

🔥 In this episode, you’ll learn:
✅ Why low sex drive is often not the real issue
✅ The “Gas vs. Brake” model (and why most men focus on the wrong thing)
✅ The 3 hidden factors that shut down intimacy:
✅ Trust
✅ Emotional connection
✅ “Chore play” (mental load & stress)
✅ How biblical leadership and sacrificial love impact attraction
✅ How small daily behaviors quietly destroy connection and desire
✅ Why trying harder can actually backfire and increase rejection
✅ The difference between fixing problems vs. building connection
✅ A simple conversation you can have with your wife that can change everything
✅ How to play the long game in marriage and rebuild desire the right way


📘 Get Mark’s Free Book:
👉 https://escapethecagenow.com/subscribe/

👉 Books & Resources: https://escapethecagenow.com/books/

📚 Work With Mark or Zack / Learn More:
👉 Book a Clarity Call: https://escapethecagenow.com/call/

Click here to watch a video of this episode.’
💬 Comment below:
Which one do you think is the biggest “brake” in your marriage right now—trust, connection, or stress/overload?

About the Lion Counseling Podcast:
The Lion Counseling Podcast helps high-achieving Christian men break free from anxiety, burnout, anger, and destructive patterns so they can lead with strength, clarity, and purpose.
Hosted by licensed therapist Mark Odland and counselor Zack Carter, this show blends psychology, faith, and practical tools to help men heal deeply and live intentionally.

New episodes drop every Tuesday.

Creators and Guests

Host
Mark Odland
Founder of Lion Counseling, Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist, Certified EMDR Therapist
Host
Zack Carter
Zack Carter is a Counselor and Coach with Lion Counseling LLC.

What is Lion Counseling Podcast?

The Lion Counseling Podcast helps men escape the cages that hold them back and become the Lions they were created to be. It exists to help men obtain success, purpose, happiness, and peace in their career and personal lives. The podcast is hosted by the founder of Lion Counseling, Mark Odland (Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist and Certified EMDR Therapist), and Zack Carter (Counselor and Coach with Lion Counseling). In their podcasts, they address a variety of topics relevant to men, including: mental health, relationships, masculinity, faith, success, business, and self-improvement.

Mark Odland:

I know we have a lot of a lot of guys

Mark Odland:

who listen to us are men of faith and they're kind of thinking about it through this biblical framework as well of like what does Jesus say about marriage? What does Jesus say about you know about sex? And that can be a charged topic, charged sermon. Right? People can hear a pin drop when the pastor preaches on this But it just occurred to me when you said this that this isn't about what my wife should do or should think or how they should relate.

Mark Odland:

This is about what actually is. What how how women actually tend to respond and tend to react to things. And so we're left with these guys as Christian guys are part of the deal which is

Mark Odland:

if your sex life feels stuck right now, it's probably not because there's not enough attraction. It's because something is shutting it down. Most men try

Mark Odland:

to fix this by doing more when the real issue is that something is getting in the way. And if you don't understand what that is,

Mark Odland:

you can keep trying harder

Mark Odland:

and harder but still feel rejected. I'm Mark Odland, licensed marriage and family therapist and certified EMDR therapist. This is the Lion Counseling Podcast and I'm here with Zack Carter, counselor and coach and today we're talking about something a lot of men deal with but don't always understand. How to actually improve sex in your marriage. And what we've both seen is this.

Mark Odland:

These issues around sex are rarely just about sex. They're about what's happening underneath the surface. All right so Zach before we get into the framework, I think most guys assume that the issue is just low desire. But if a guy is listening right now and thinking to himself, I don't get it. I'm attracted to my wife.

Mark Odland:

Why is she not interested? I mean, do you what do you think is is really going on here? I'm gonna kick it over to you now.

Zack Carter:

Yeah. Well, thanks, Mark. Thanks for explaining it.

Mark Odland:

Yeah. For sure.

Zack Carter:

I first wanna start with a diagram. No. Just playing.

Mark Odland:

Is this seventh grade health class?

Zack Carter:

Maybe. No. Okay. No. So in all seriousness yeah.

Zack Carter:

So this is a a problem a lot of our clients have that they want more sex in their marriage, and they don't really know how to get it. Oftentimes, they've done some damage in their marriage, and sometimes they don't feel like they've done damage in their marriage. And they're still confused why their wife doesn't seem as interested in sex. Yeah. And so in researching this topic, I came across a model that I think is very helpful in understanding what the heck is going on.

Zack Carter:

It's called the dual control model. And the dual control model was developed by a guy named Doctor. John Bancroft, and it was done with his colleagues at the Kinsey Institute. More recently, it was popularized by a Doctor. Emily Nagoski.

Zack Carter:

So this this model has been around for for a while, but a lot of people don't don't know what it is. And the best way to describe this model is picturing the idea of a gas pedal and a brake pedal. So a lot of people think the problem is turn ons, right, is increasing the desire of their wife. Okay, what are your turn ons? How can we hit that gas pedal to get you revved up to go?

Zack Carter:

Sure. When oftentimes what we don't focus on is the brake pedal, the turnoffs, the thing that's actually making it less likely that sex is going to happen. Okay. So that's the model. Think of it in that way.

Zack Carter:

So we got the gas, what turns you on, breaks, what shuts you down, what shuts it off. And maybe we'll go more into this Let me in a different episode, but we can talk about men as well because, you know, as one would guess, the guy's gas is a little bit more sensitive.

Mark Odland:

She

Zack Carter:

walks by in a provocative outfit. That's all we need. Let's go. Whereas for her, you know, her brakes are a little bit more sensitive. And if you don't understand that, you're gonna have problems.

Mark Odland:

Wow. Well, that I'm just I'm sorry to interrupt you, Zack. I was just gonna say, I mean, this is really important what you're saying because I think a lot of our listeners are thinking to themselves, I'm doing this and this and this. What do I have to do more of? And what I hear from you is they might feel stuck in the cycle of frustration and rejection because they're just missing at diagnosing the approach and that it has actually more to do with avoiding doing the things that are getting in the way or the things that are hindering that connection.

Mark Odland:

So I yeah. I'm sure you have a lot more to say about that.

Zack Carter:

No. That's good. Yeah. It could be avoiding it. It could be ignorance.

Zack Carter:

Ignorance.

Mark Odland:

It could

Zack Carter:

be like if they just knew knew what to do, would do it as well. But it's gonna cover a lot of the topics that we've discussed in the podcast previously. So let let's talk about the three main categories

Mark Odland:

K.

Zack Carter:

That if you build these things up or if you assist in these things, you're going to help her take her foot off the brake and put it on the gas. So three big categories that we want to cover. Number one is trust. Women tend to need trust in their relationship to have sex, which makes sense because if you're a dangerous person, you get her pregnant and you take off. Like, that's a major consequence for her.

Zack Carter:

Men don't have to I mean, men have to worry about it, but not not nearly as much to the same extent. Second thing after trust is emotional connection. Third thing we're going to call chore play. Right? So helping out around the house, lightening the mental load that women have on them.

Zack Carter:

Okay. So let's dig into the categories real quick. Let's start with trust. Okay. Does your wife feel safe with you?

Zack Carter:

It's about safety and security. What are some things that can begin to erode trust and cause her to start putting her foot on that break? So criticism, anger, contempt. These kinds of things make her feel unsafe. Other things could be like porn secrecy or betrayal.

Zack Carter:

Right? If you've had affairs, broken promises. Maybe inconsistency or lack of follow through that you've told her you're gonna do things and then you didn't do those things, that she can't trust you. She can't rely on you. Maybe there's fear of judgment or rejection.

Zack Carter:

And lastly, maybe she has some physical bodily insecurities. Maybe she doesn't feel beautiful and she doesn't trust that you're going be gentle with her heart. Right. So this will show up with your wife being more guarded, more withholding, less initiation, maybe avoiding sex and lower openness to sex sexuality. Okay.

Zack Carter:

So if trust isn't there, that's the automatic break, right? That foot goes on the brake. So, Mark, what do you think are some subtle ways in marriages that trust can get broken on a daily basis? We've got big things, so you can mention big things, but what are some small things that might also contribute?

Mark Odland:

Yeah. I mean, I'm thinking off the top of my head that I mean, it might not feel like a big breach of trust, but there is that sense and it's this comes from attachment theory that deep down, we all kinda wanna know when we're hurting. Is someone gonna be there for us? If we cry out, does someone have our back? And so a little way that that might show up is, say, you're you're home from work, your wife is sharing about her day, and you're not really looking her in the eye.

Mark Odland:

You're not actively listening. You're not asking questions. And she can just feel the vibe. You're checked out. You're disconnected.

Mark Odland:

You're you're not really caring. You're you're sharing content. You're not connecting. And that can be kind of a lonely feeling. It can be kind of a you know, a lot of the guys on that we're we're talking to are feeling rejected because of the lack of sexual intimacy.

Mark Odland:

But there could be micro kind of, like, just smaller cuts of trust when it comes to just that to those heart to heart moments in the relationships. I don't know if that that ties in with this or not, Zach, but that's that's like the first thing that came to mind for me is just connecting at a heart level, actually being able to be present, which can be challenging because a lot of the guys we work with are are really good providers. They're working so hard for their families. They truly love their families. But it's really hard to keep the game on, that second shift when they get home.

Mark Odland:

They kind of want to check out and just kind of chill. And that doesn't always work.

Zack Carter:

Yeah. And it's so easy to do. And it is hard. If working long days, long hours, it is hard to be there consistently. We do have to find ways of, are there some ways where I can decrease work in my life or carve out time to make sure that they know, hey, I'm gonna I'm gonna be there consistently in this way.

Zack Carter:

Yeah.

Mark Odland:

That's great. I mean, quick thought I had too, Zach, is

Zack Carter:

I know we have a lot of a lot

Mark Odland:

of guys who listen to us are men of faith, and they're kind of thinking about it through this biblical framework as well of like, what does Jesus say about marriage? What does Jesus say about, you know, about sex? And that can be a charged topic, a charged sermon. Right? People can hear a pin drop when the pastor preaches on this stuff, but it just occurred to me when you said this that this isn't about what my wife should do or should think or how they should relate.

Mark Odland:

This is about what actually is. What how how women actually tend to respond and and tend to react to things. And so we're left with these guys, as Christian guys, are part of the deal, which is love your wives as Christ loved the church.

Zack Carter:

Mhmm.

Mark Odland:

And then I thought to myself, well, how do we relate as the church, as the bride of Christ? Right? That metaphor, how do we relate to him? It's through trust. He pours his life out for us, and we and we respond and receive that gift through trust, through faith.

Mark Odland:

And so if we're creating an environment that makes trust difficult, just like that can be a barrier in a life of faith, it can be a barrier in a in a marriage as well. And so I know some people can be critical of, like, Christian guys. Like, the dancers always just shoulder more burden. You know? Just step it up more.

Mark Odland:

The real problem is you have to and and so there has been, like, a counterswing of, like, about you know, we've talked about boundaries. We've talked about things like that as well. But I I just had to throw that in there because I'm like, if if if there are guys who are listening to this kinda wondering, oh, where are they gonna go with this? We're just kinda being practical with the psychology and and how relationships actually work. And and then we can kind of dovetail that in with our own faith lives as well.

Mark Odland:

You can walk in chew gum at the same time, I guess is what I'm thinking. Yeah. A 100%.

Zack Carter:

Yeah. I love the spiritual tie in there. Yeah. I think that's a great way of looking at it. That you can't have a relationship with Christ without the trust.

Zack Carter:

Yeah. So that's that's number one is. Your wife needs to be able to trust you to take her foot off that break. Right. Next thing is emotional connection, emotional closeness.

Zack Carter:

Does she feel seen? Does she feel valued? Does she feel connected?

Mark Odland:

Okay.

Zack Carter:

So if she if she doesn't, resentment conform. You could have unresolved conflict. So if you're in the middle of a fight, like, I don't know about women for me. Like, it's hard for me to want to have sex if we're in the middle of a disagreement. Right.

Zack Carter:

So there there does need to be a way to resolve conflicts between your the spouses. Feeling if she's feeling unseen, feeling unimportant. Okay, you're taking for granted the things that she's doing for you. If there's a lack of emotional intimacy. So we've had we've had numerous discussions about building up our emotional intelligence.

Zack Carter:

Not trying to solve problems for your wife, but just being there. There's a very popular video, Mark. I don't know if you've ever seen it of the it's not about the nail.

Mark Odland:

Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. I've seen that.

Zack Carter:

I'm gonna ruin it. So pause the video if you wanna go type in. It's not about the nail because I'm about to ruin it, but you can pause it and then come back after this. So essentially, there's this couple this that's sitting together, and the woman's like, you know, the the camera angles just like just below her her eyes, and you can kinda see her talking. And she's like, I just I just have this pain in my forehead.

Zack Carter:

I don't I don't know what it's from, and it's just every day. It's just like this ape. And the camera reveals that she has a nail sticking out of her forehead. And the guy's like, I mean, maybe it's the nail. And she's like, it's it's not a it's not about the nail.

Zack Carter:

And he's like, it's kind of about the nail, though. She's like, listen, you always do this. You don't listen to me. You don't connect with me. He's like, I'm just I'm just saying if we if we if we pulled the nail out, the pain would go away.

Zack Carter:

Right. So like as dudes, we want to go into problem solving mode. And what women tend to want is the emotional connection of, wow, it has to it has to be really hard to feel that pain all day long. It's got to be hard to feel that ache, right? And that's what they want is empathy.

Zack Carter:

They want that emotional connection. And the moment you're like, well, let's pull the nail out. You're you're you're talking to her from a different brain, right? The prefrontal cortex right here, that's your logic brain. Right.

Zack Carter:

She's talking to you from the middle right here. This is where your emotional brain is. You're speaking a different language and you're missing that connection. So we want to increase our emotional intimacy. Another thing that could that could cause problems is living like roommates.

Zack Carter:

Like, hey, we're just kind of doing our daily tasks, but we're not actually going on dates. I'm not actually speaking to you romantically. I'm not actually doing the things that make her, as as Gary Chapman would say, fill up her love tank. Right? Mhmm.

Zack Carter:

So she may say things like, I don't feel close to you. Sex feels forced or mechanical. There might be low desire even though there's no major conflict. So a lot of couples think that this is the main issue, but it can also be intertwined with trust. Okay.

Zack Carter:

So just to kind of solidify this point, and then I'm gonna throw it to you, Mark. Yeah. How do we know the difference between trust and emotional connection? Well, my my wife and I have had a couple of Beagles for years now. Okay.

Zack Carter:

And one of them is a little ornery, and he's he doesn't really like new people, and he likes kinda his space.

Mark Odland:

Yeah.

Zack Carter:

But he's, like, super loyal. Right? You gotta be careful with them because if you if you, like, mess with them in a certain way, he'll bark at you or bite at you.

Mark Odland:

Sure.

Zack Carter:

And so, like, you know, we can't we can't fully trust him. Right. Then we have our other dog who wouldn't hurt a fly. The guy's a lover, not a fighter. Yeah.

Zack Carter:

But this dog oftentimes will wanna hang with him, and he'll, like, go upstairs to be by himself or, like, let him out and ask him to come in and hang with us, and he just sits out there and ignores us. Right? So the first dog, he has emotional connection with us. He has that intimacy with us, but we can't trust him because at any moment he could get irritable and bite at us or bark at us. And then we have this other dog where he doesn't get irritable.

Zack Carter:

He doesn't get nasty, but he emotionally he disconnects from us and goes off. If you aren't doing both safety and connection, then at least one of the feet are on the break. And so you could say, well, we've got our foot on the gas. Right. But you also have your foot on the break, so you're still not going anywhere.

Zack Carter:

So you have to deal with both of these components.

Mark Odland:

Wow.

Zack Carter:

So, Mark, how do you how do you think couples unintentionally disconnect from each other?

Mark Odland:

Wow. Well, that's a great metaphor, Zach. I love that. I love the I love hearing about your dogs. I think I told you we're getting our first puppy pretty soon as a family.

Mark Odland:

So congrats. It's gonna be a ride. I'll tell you that. But the metaphor of the bark or the bite, that that's kinda sticking out to me because as as we know when we work with guys doing couples counseling or just hearing secondhand about how the arguments go with the guys we do individual counseling or coaching with, It's tough because I mean, you can be rocking it at work or as a CEO, entrepreneur, doctor, lawyer, whatever, you know, these are the kinds of clients we work with, but they come home and they're just kinda like, what am I doing wrong? This isn't and this and either and this is what we see with emotional escalation where someone has to blows up, gets really emotional, angry, frustrated, or other person shuts down.

Mark Odland:

And so guarding against emotional escalation is one of those things that helps things feel safe enough to actually have a conversation about a hard thing, for example. Right? So trust versus how did you frame it? Trust versus Emotional connection. Emotional connection.

Mark Odland:

Yeah. So kinda like the dog. Okay. You're our wives, right, could feel like when we're talking to them, like there's emotional connection. Okay.

Mark Odland:

They're listening. They're listening. They're listening. I feel close. I feel heard.

Mark Odland:

You could be rocking in that area. But if there's a track record of you kind of getting irritable or angry or shaming. That's your bark. That's your bite that might come out. And and their mind is gonna say, yeah.

Mark Odland:

He seems safe. I feel connected, but can I really trust can I really trust that if I bring up this thing, he's not gonna flip out on on me? And maybe it's reversed. Sometimes we can feel that the other way too. Right?

Mark Odland:

It depends on the relationship. But, I mean, that that's just one thing I would say is, like, you can have an emotional connection, but still have this thing in the back of your mind where it doesn't feel completely safe because, like, they're gonna say or do that one thing. That's not gonna feel like it's gonna break the connection. So it feels like a temporary thing. And and then and then guess what?

Mark Odland:

Then they start you start thinking about that, how they're eventually gonna break the connection, and then all of a sudden, don't feel so connected anymore. So I feel like there's a relationship between the two as well, but I love it. I don't know if that's getting at it a little bit, Zach, or if you feel like there's another angle to it. Yeah, for sure.

Zack Carter:

Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah, we we they they need to know that at at any moment, you you're not gonna just flip out on them and get angry. And at the same time, they also need to know that well, maybe you're not that guy, but you're the guy that comes home and plays video games and ignores the family when they're trying to have a conversation with you. You're like, babe, I'm listening to my podcast.

Zack Carter:

They need to know that you can do both. Right?

Mark Odland:

Yeah. And that's right. And that gets tricky too because, you know, in a relationship, a husband and wife are carrying with them old old hurts and the echoes of previous arguments into their into their dynamics between the two be to each other. And so, like, some of the guys we work with might be thinking, well, I hardly ever bark or bite, but when I do, it's it's her fault. Like, she started it.

Zack Carter:

Mhmm.

Mark Odland:

And so, like, whether or not that's true, maybe it is true. But, again, like, there's this kinda, like, very intricate web of cause and effect that is in that moment and that trickles back into time. And to just pin it down and be like, well, she started it. Well, it takes two to create that dance together. And so, again, what can we do as guys?

Mark Odland:

How can we love our wives as Christ loved the church? Maybe that looks like saying, okay, I have a right to be frustrated or angry or whatever about this thing. Is this timing really profitable and beneficial for me to kinda jab right now? Is that really gonna be helpful for the relationship? Is it gonna be helpful for me to do that?

Mark Odland:

Is it helpful for me to try to rip the nail out of their head? You know? And when she just wants to feel heard and and connected. And and and here's a little nugget for you guys. Don't try to pull the nail out right away, But also know that you're not broken for wanting to pull the nail out.

Mark Odland:

Like that's part of how God wired you and that's okay. But just the timing, man. The timing matters. And so if she feels loved and connected, hey PS, maybe later that evening, she's like, hey, by the way, do you still have that pliers? Like, maybe, like, we could work on that.

Mark Odland:

Like, do you got any ideas? Actually, yeah. Thanks. I've got I do have some ideas about how we might be able to stop your suffering, from continuing needlessly. Right?

Mark Odland:

Yeah. But, man, the timing the timing sabotages so many things. So so I think, yeah, I think that's what I got on that that that that trust versus safety versus connection piece. Like, I think there's there's a lot there.

Zack Carter:

Yeah. And often oftentimes our wives are not idiots. If if they wanted to pull the nail out, they could figure out how to pull the nail

Mark Odland:

out on their own.

Zack Carter:

And if they do want help, they can say, hey, look, I don't what do you think would be the best way to get this nail out? Like, cool. But usually that follows the emotional connection and the empathy and the trust.

Mark Odland:

That's huge, Zach. I mean, the line that just that just kind of came to me is that I'm guilty of this too, is when I hear my wife in pain about whatever, I'm seeing that as the the the objective is to stop the pain.

Zack Carter:

Mhmm.

Mark Odland:

When oftentimes our wives, the objective of the pain is is an opportunity to connect. And if we rip away the pain too quickly, we're actually ripping away the opportunity to connect with them.

Zack Carter:

That's good.

Mark Odland:

So we have to diagnose it correctly and know that our brains might work a little differently. Our hearts might work a little differently. So, yeah, knowledge is power. So, you know, lock that away, guys.

Zack Carter:

There we go. So we we've we've so far, we've talked about the gas in the brake and how if we wanna get the foot off the brake, we need to build trust. We need to build emotional connection. Right? And getting our foot off that the break.

Zack Carter:

The last thing is what we're calling chore play. So, I, you know, I don't know I don't know what it's like in in your your house, Mark. I I know my wife takes on a lot. So willingly, like, she just she likes it. She likes cooking and cleaning and taking care of the family.

Zack Carter:

She likes running certain amounts of the finances, but she's also the one that's like booking the vet appointments and booking the pediatric appointments and

Mark Odland:

Right.

Zack Carter:

Ordering the the toilet paper when we've run out of toilet paper and making sure that we have the food. And one thing that I was researching this is I just had never thought about is called mental load, that oftentimes women just have a lot of things that they're trying to remember all at once, that they're holding so much in their head, trying to make sure that the home doesn't fall apart. Yeah. And so the the third thing that can that can hit a break is things like stress, fatigue, over working overload, like working a full time job, doing stuff at the house, taking care of the kids, taking care of the house. If they feel like there's unequal responsibilities, they feel like there's a chaotic environment.

Zack Carter:

Right? So chore play is the act of taking off some of that mental load, taking off some of those tasks and trying to share within the home tasks to make sure that that stress goes down, that that overwhelm goes down. My my family, we grew up watching everybody loves Raymond, and there's an episode where he's, like, dressed in, like, boxers in this ugly tattered robe, and he's, like, singing in this terrible voice and, like, vacuuming the floor. And his wife comes down. She's like, oh, you kinda look sexy right now.

Zack Carter:

And he's like, because he's like, you looks awful. But it was the act of cleaning up the house that helped to remove some of that mental load from her that helped her in that moment to take her foot off the break and say, oh, now I can keep my foot on the gas. I'm like, hey, let's let's go upstairs. Right? So logistically, if she's overwhelmed by lots of stuff, it's gonna make it hard to engage in sex.

Zack Carter:

It's the same same for guys. When I'm exhausted from a long day, that's not typically the time that I'm like, hey, let's go do this thing. Like, you know, especially if I've eaten a ton of Chinese food or something. I'm like, alright. I'm done.

Zack Carter:

Like, I got no energy Right. Or anything right now. I'm bloated. I don't feel sexy. You know?

Zack Carter:

And it's like, it's just not gonna happen. So we have to, like, help our wives by engaging in chore play and helping remove some of these responsibilities off them. Okay. So let me ask you, Mark, where what do you feel like is the line between, hey, I'm tired and actually avoiding intimacy? Because that's that's where it starts to get tricky.

Zack Carter:

You

Mark Odland:

know, that is that's a valid point. And we're all human. Right? So I think we're all able to, you know, play certain cards and kinda milk certain situations, and and sometimes it can be habitual. Right?

Mark Odland:

There can be a pattern that a couple's stuck in where, yeah, certain taglines like I'm tired can be like the thing that said and then the guy shuts down and just gives up. Mhmm. Rather than saying you know, stepping into it, you know, and that this can be very challenging is to not step away in rejection or resentment, but to step forward with love and kind of strength and be like, oh, I'm I'm sorry I'm sorry you're you're feeling tired, honey. Like, what yeah. It sounds like you had a hard day.

Mark Odland:

Is there anything I can do to help? That's not easy to do, especially if you're exhausted or ate Chinese food. Can get complicated.

Zack Carter:

Listeners are like, we now know way too much about Zach's ex life.

Mark Odland:

Thanks and editing though. But yeah, I think the chore play thing is I think is interesting because I think intuitively we kind of know it makes sense. I think for those of you who have kind of dipped their toe in the the manosphere or the red pill space, there's a lot of guys trying to like understand relationships and sexual dynamics from like, evolutionary psychology perspective, and it's not necessarily like a Christian focused perspective. But it's appealing because it's got some nuggets of wisdom in there, and it kinda, like, gets guys pumped up and kinda, like, just to set boundaries and to advocate for themselves and to feel like it's not all on them.

Zack Carter:

But but even if some

Mark Odland:

of their critiques to kind of the the Christian men's space might be accurate, man, we can't get around this whole thing of, like, again, men love your wives as Christ loved the church. A savior who washed his disciples' feet when it was, like, the most beneath beneath him thing he could have done. Right? So it's it's so the idea of you know? And, again, I've I've mentioned this before, but when I had a chance to meet, doctor Jordan Peterson and talk a little bit about my practice with him, he said it was really important for us as therapists and counselors to pay attention to resentment.

Mark Odland:

Because if we feel resentment building up inside of us, that's actually not an excuse to be mad with other people. It's a wake up call that we've let our own boundaries be violated. And we haven't spoken up about something in an assertive way. Right? And so if if you're a guy who feels like he's tried everything, including the chores, but you're walking around with a bunch of resentment and unforgiveness, guess what?

Mark Odland:

This is back to the trust and connection piece. Like your wife's gonna probably feel it. And then all of a sudden you're both keeping tallies in your mind of who's done more and who's hurt you more and who's done more stuff. And it becomes this ledger that becomes really transactional. And that can kinda silently kill a relationship, I think, if if people dig in their heels too much on that in the name of feeling strong.

Mark Odland:

And so, yeah, again, if if it feels like you try and try and try and it's totally one-sided. Alright. Well, that's worthy of a conversation. Right? That that doesn't feel just or right.

Mark Odland:

But man, on a given day, if you can just at a heart level be like, okay, this is the woman that I fell in love with. The woman I wanted to build my life with, raise my kids with. And I got resentment, and she's exhausted from all the things she keeps track of that I don't have to. Would it would it kill me if I stepped forward into that space? And how can I help?

Mark Odland:

What can I do to make your night easier? And then here's the big one. Maybe even be okay if it doesn't lead to where you want it to, but know that it's building some trust and goodwill maybe for the next few days. And that can go a long way with a lot of women of like, man, he actually did this just because he loves me and not just because of he was hoping for this at the end

Zack Carter:

of the day, right? I mean, that's like,

Mark Odland:

oh man, like, again, both can be true. You can be hopeful, cautiously optimistic that maybe it'll go somewhere positive, with the physical intimacy, but also being strong enough to know, like, let's play the long game here. Let's let's just work on the love and the relationship itself trust that a lot of these things might fall into place more organically afterwards.

Zack Carter:

Yeah. That's really good. Yeah. Because one of the one of the things that can definitely get her to put her foot on the brake is feeling forced or feeling pressured. And so it is it is a tightrope to walk, you know?

Zack Carter:

And there there does need to be accountability on both sides that, like, there there does need to be reciprocation that, hey. I've I've been doing these things. Here are the things you've asked me to do, and I've done these things. I also need reciprocation in the ways that I also need to feel loved. And sex is important.

Mark Odland:

Well, that's right, Zach. And I think our guys need to hear that. Like, you are not a bad guy or weird for thinking this is a normal good thing in a healthy marriage. I mean, God seemed to design it that way. So, like, that's not wrong to want that.

Mark Odland:

And so like, how do you how do you work with your wife to get there together, you know?

Zack Carter:

Exactly. So kind of final thoughts. Some of the problems that can be happening can fit in numerous categories all at once. So if we're talking, we've talked about chores a lot. So unequal chores, they can fall under the chore play category of that your wife is overwhelmed.

Zack Carter:

She's got so much going on that she just needs some Mhmm. Right? And you may say, well, you know, we made a deal. She she does the family stuff, and I do the career stuff. Like, this is I don't know what to tell you, dude.

Zack Carter:

Like, if you if you want sex and chore play is kind of the kind of the one of the breaks that she feels overwhelmed, then you may have to work and help out around the house. You may have to. Emotional. If if chores aren't shared, it can feel she can feel unsupported. So that's under the emotional is feeling unsupported.

Zack Carter:

And then trust feels like she can't rely on you, that she's got to she got to take care of it all. So there can be problems that fit into all three categories and kind of combined to be this one big break. You know, she's you're doing the break and you're pulling the emergency the emergency break and you're like, why don't we have sex in forever? It's like, yeah, here's the stuff. Here's here's here's what here's what might be going on.

Zack Carter:

So, yeah, let's talk practical.

Mark Odland:

Yeah.

Zack Carter:

What can we do? What can you do as you as we kind of close the video today?

Mark Odland:

Sure.

Zack Carter:

So try not to guess what is the problem with your wife. Like, go talk to her. Like, go go ask her. Yeah. Like, hey, which which of these things could be causing a break in the relationship and causing a break for your sexual attraction?

Zack Carter:

Is it the trust? Is the connection? Is it is it overwhelm? Is it stress? Is it is it not not engaging in chore play?

Zack Carter:

Yep. What would what would help us to take your foot off the break and put it on the gas? What would what would actually help you to feel more open to having sex? Right. So, yeah.

Zack Carter:

You know, better sex isn't about necessarily doing more. It's about removing what's in the way. Right? Getting that foot off the brake and getting it to the gas. So any final thoughts, Mark?

Mark Odland:

Yeah. I love that, Zach. I mean, I think just that the the gas break metaphor is one that I think you can really latch onto. And, I mean, I think for you guys listening right now, even sharing with your wife, like, hey, I I heard an interesting podcast today with with Mark and Zach, and they have this metaphor of the break and the gas. And it made me wonder, like, do you think?

Mark Odland:

Do you think that kind of makes sense? Does that make sense for us? And they likely will resonate with it and maybe that'll be a starting place. Right? And and, obviously, if you're listening this long and you feel like you've you've tried everything, you know, that's why Zach and I are here.

Mark Odland:

You know, you can book a clarity call with us and, see if it's a good fit, to work with us because we we work with hardworking guys under pressure every day, and, and it helps. We're not meant to go through this alone. And so check it out at escapethecagenow.com. And and if you are enjoying this content, you know, subscribing actually can can help help, feed the algorithm, help more guys, and, throw in the comments, you know, what subjects you want you want us to tackle next because we're we're building something great here, guys, and we really appreciate you being on the journey with us. I guess in final, final thoughts would be if this subject is hitting close to home for you, don't ignore it.

Mark Odland:

Don't stick your head in the sand. Don't scroll. Don't drink. Don't do all the things that that numb out. Right?

Mark Odland:

You got you gotta step forward, guys. It's not easy, but it it can be doable. It requires some clarity and honesty to to work through these things. And so in addition to reaching out to Zack or I, I think having that honest conversation. Recently I came across even a simple intervention that couples can do and a lot of couples don't do it.

Mark Odland:

It's just having a nightly check-in, Find a quiet space even for five, ten minutes. Start by giving each other a hug, maybe, taking turns sharing some words of things that you appreciate about each other and, and setting some ground rules. Right? Maybe you don't, you don't start with some really hot button issues, but just how are you feeling about your day and practicing being a good listener. Just a little bit more connection throughout the day can actually really be helpful in just creating more emotional connection and trust in the relationship, which is good just not for intimacy, but just for the relationship as a whole, which is a really good thing.

Mark Odland:

So if you're listening, thank you for being part of it. Just know that you are you're not broken. Your marriage is not stuck forever, but it does require us as guys to step into that space, to try to love our wives well and to get some extra support if if we need it. So in summary, having a better sex life is not just about doing more. It's about removing what's in the way.

Mark Odland:

Thanks as always guys for listening, and, stay tuned for, more subjects in the future that'll help you guys to, break free, heal deep, and become those lines God created you to be. Take care, everybody.