# Swell AI Transcript: Liz Bohannon (Second Edit) - Meta Performance.mp3
SPEAKER_04:
Welcome to the Beyond High Performance podcast featuring content and conversations from me, Jason Jaggard, along with our elite coaches at Novus Global, their high performing clients, and the faculty of the Metta Performance Institute for Coaching. On this podcast, you'll hear some of the world's best executive coaches and high performing leaders, artists and athletes discuss how they continue to go beyond high performance in their lives and businesses. On this episode of the Metta Performance Show, I sit down with founder of Seiko Designs, global keynote speaker, and bestselling author of Beginner's Pluck, Liz Bohannon. She is so much fun to talk to. In this conversation, we cover some of the principles of her book and how they apply to growing as a public speaker and in building community. I've seen Liz speak twice in front of hundreds of thousands of people, and she is by far one of my favorite speakers. We dive into the nuts and bolts of how she does it, why every kind of speaking opportunity is a good one, how to, quote, wave a magic wand to create possibility as you build speeches that move people. And then we shift gears a little bit and we talk about her adventures in building community. Loneliness is one of the greatest challenges that leaders face, and she's faced it head on. We talk about principles for leaders building community and much, much more. The best part about talking to Liz is you always walk away wanting to go back for more. So we're going to make sure that this isn't the last time you hear her voice on this podcast, and we hope you enjoy the show.
SPEAKER_00:
The wait is finally over. Our new book, Beyond High Performance, What Great Coaches Know About How the Best Get Better, is available for purchase wherever books are sold. This USA Today bestseller is more than 250 pages of expertise, anecdotes, and insights from Novus Global coaches, as well as faculty from the Metta Performance Institute for Coaching. We are so excited to put our proprietary framework that has helped thousands of leaders achieve more into your hands. And we can't wait to see how you'll use the book to enhance your life and leadership. To learn more and obtain this essential resource for yourself, visit novus.global forward slash book.
SPEAKER_04:
Liz, thanks for being on the show.
SPEAKER_02:
It is such a delight and I'm really looking forward to our time together.
SPEAKER_04:
Me too. There's so many things that I admire about you. First and foremost, I look at you like an entrepreneur. And then as you've built companies, you know, global companies that benefit women and children in various parts of the developing world, as in some ways, that's like the most like nuts and bolts part of you, like, you know, your legacy in a lot of ways. But also now you're doing, you know, there's a merger, and now you're doing a lot of public speaking, and you are so good at it. You're so, so wonderfully like, you know, a few in a generation good at that. And so I'm excited to unpack a little bit of that. And then I love your exploration around what does it mean to be fully human in the context of community? And so that's what we're going to do today. Is that sound OK?
SPEAKER_02:
That sounds like the ride of my life.
SPEAKER_04:
Oh, by the way, you wrote a book. So you wrote a book, and you are very good at naming and branding things. Your book is called Beginner's Pluck. And as I even reflected back on it, by the way, I've interviewed you before for the Global Leadership Summit. And we're going to put that interview in the show notes, so people can kind of get a deeper dive on you and what's been going on in that conversation. And I think you've actually been interviewed multiple times. So maybe, Steven, we'll put all those in the show notes so people can just do a Liz deep dive. A Liz binge. A Liz binge, because all good stuff. And I do want to ask a few questions about the book, because as it occurred to me, the book is essentially almost like a how-to guide for entrepreneurialism, but written in a really accessible way. Is that what you were trying to do when you started it?
SPEAKER_02:
Yeah, exactly. It was really going, OK, what have I learned over the course of my journey? What are the kind of truisms or like euphemisms that are so ubiquitous that I hung on to for a while before I went like, that's not really serving me. And I don't think it's serving others, but I don't want to be a person in the world who just criticizes things. It's like I want to actually have an offering that I think might be more useful or more accessible or more inspiring. And so it really was using my story was just kind of the vehicle to talk about these principles that I've identified can help us get to what the thesis is. At any stage in our life, our vocation, our career, whether we truly are a beginner, it's about recognizing actually as a beginner, you don't have to be ashamed and you don't have to fake it. you actually have some superpowers. But you have to stop being insecure about them and realize that they're your superpowers to use them to your advantage. And if you're someone who's more of an expert, like you've been around the rodeo several times, actually part of your work is intentionally channeling your inner beginner because you will be able to see things and approach things in a way that you can't anymore unless you intentionally try to get back there. And so that's kind of the whole concept of the book. And then my story is really just the Trojan horse for how to share those principles.
SPEAKER_04:
Well, it's an inspiring story, and I love the way you frame that. You actually read my mind. I was thinking a lot of our clients run big things, and so they don't connect to the entrepreneurial ethos. But I found, as I was reading it, if you don't have places where you're able to rapidly iterate, that is not a good sign. No matter what size of an organization you're leading, whether it's yourself as a solopreneur or whether you're leading large organizations, you have to have places where you can rapidly iterate and apply principles like in Liz's book. And one of them I would ask you to elaborate on. So, you know, everybody says dream big, you know, and that's like the whole thing, dream big. And we have friends like Bob Goff and everything, and they tell us to dream big, and we should dream big. Dreaming big is good. But then you do a little twist on it from an entrepreneur's mindset. It's not just enough to dream big. What do you have to do?
SPEAKER_02:
You know, it's so funny that you say that because I believed deeply in my dream small principle, and I've also spoken literally minutes after Bob Goff. In a conference, one of my first lines is like, dream small. So we got to be careful about where we're, how the chronology of our speakers there. I obviously adore Bob and I adore the sentiment of dreaming big. Like that's ultimately where I think most people want to be. And it's super, it's aspirational. What I have found is that the message, however, the kind of mandate to dream big, if you are already dreaming big, feels really good because you're like, oh, yeah, I'm doing the thing. I'm a big dreamer. I've kind of adopted that identity for some others and not everybody, obviously. That's why everybody's voice and perspective, I think, matters. And it's we can so get in our head. Well, they've already said that that book has already been written. That thought has already been thought. And it's just like, whatever. That's dumb. You have a specific lived perspective and voice. and take on this that might resonate with somebody who hasn't been reached yet, if that makes sense. And so, what I have just found is there's a lot of people that actually feel really paralyzed by that mandate. That it's like, it's so overwhelming, it feels aspirational, but unachievable, and then all of a sudden, it's already hard to, like, dream about something and go out in the world and do it. Then there's this whole added layer. Is it big enough? Like, is this the thing? Is this impressive enough? Is it big enough? Is it worthy enough? And so many I have found really beautiful, small dreams that could eventually become really big, beautiful dreams don't make it through that gauntlet. Like you just hack it to death until you finally go, it's not big enough. It's not good enough. It's not impressive enough. I might as well just not do anything. And so one of the things that I love to do in my own life and to encourage other people to do is like, but what if you gave your small dreams the amount of energy that you're subconsciously reserving for your big dreams. And all of a sudden said, like, hey, little dream, you're worth it. Like you matter. You're precious. You're sacred. You're worthy of my attention. You are worth me putting you out into the world and inviting other people into it. And all of a sudden, those like little dreams can often surprise us. They can create momentum. and get us to the place that we longed to be all along. And also I find that the more easily delighted you are in small things and in celebrating small things, the more successful you're going to be in the long run because it makes the whole journey delightful versus like we can get so fixated on the big end goal that we're like miserable trying to get there and instead go like, oh, what if I just celebrated my small things as well and gave them that same energy and respect?
SPEAKER_04:
Yeah, I love that. In recovery, they say, what's the next right action? What's the next small thing you know to do? And sometimes, I'll say to somebody yesterday, I was working with a client, and I said, there's a big thing, of course, they're working on. And I was like, well, what's the next smallest possible minuscule, baby, itsy bitsy, tiny little thing? because there's momentum and you're getting your reps in. And so I really, I just love, so everyone should go out and buy Beginner's Pluck. And I want you to, no matter where you are in your entrepreneurial journey, whether you're, you don't see yourself as an entrepreneur because you never started anything, but you kind of think that you might, I think you'll get immense value from it. But also if you already lead other things, it'll just be a refresher course in how wonderful and delightful it is to iterate and to build from scratch and to celebrate those early wins and to learn and to celebrate those early failures. Like it's so rich.
SPEAKER_02:
And that beginner's mindset, too, I believe will make your whole life richer. Like, you want to be a great spouse? Channel your beginner's pluck. Like, channel a sense of humility and curiosity and a willingness to kind of experiment and try and fail. Like, in parenting, it's so tempting as a parent to be like, I'm the expert. I know what's going on. I have to defend myself. I have to look like I know what's going on in front of my kids, whatever it is. There is, I think, immense power in channeling your beginner's pluck in every area of your life and vocation and calling, from personal to professional.
SPEAKER_04:
Yeah, I love that. So now I want to apply that, because Liz, like I said, you are one of the most gifted communicators I've ever seen in my life. And just like going to see Jerry Seinfeld or Dave Chappelle or whatever, and watching people at the top of their craft and just enjoying that, just enjoying the quality of it. I feel that way about you.
SPEAKER_02:
That is, can I just pause you? I want to receive that and just say thank you. That's really meaningful and kind.
SPEAKER_04:
Yeah, and I know you work really hard at it. You have a natural gift. But when I listen to you, and we will put your interview with Craig Rochelle in the notes in terms of he's had a whole conversation with him around how much prep you put into it. And that's I think I admire that almost more than the result, just the honor you bring to communication. But I want to go biographical a little bit because a lot of people saw you speak. And I was I was in the I've seen you speak twice. And I was in the one time when they like lift you up in the air.
SPEAKER_02:
The flying time, yeah.
SPEAKER_04:
My Peter Pan moment. That's right. So, again, these are all real things that happened. Liz flew through an audience of like 5,000 people. And then also, this last time, I was offstage watching you speak, just in awe, and there's a teleprompter. And the thing, I want to brag on you just for a second, the thing I loved about that was that the teleprompter was there, and it was kind of following you around. Like, usually, a teleprompter, you're following it. It was trying to keep up with you. And it became evident to me that you weren't using it like that. It was so ingrained in you, but like it was 90 percent accurate. So you had internalized this thing so richly and then you throw in little things and then like the teleprompter people like, well, that guy needs a bonus.
SPEAKER_02:
You should get a few extra days of PTO for that.
SPEAKER_04:
So she's a top shelf communicator, and which means there is lots of things to learn from Liz about this. And now I want to apply beginner's pluck to this because a lot of people, so a lot of our coaches were in the audience and they thought, I want to speak like her someday. And I'm like, yes, I want that for you too. And I want that for me. you know, still growing as a communicator. I've got a lot to learn. And we have a lot of coaches in our firm and probably people listening to this who, it's not what they do for a living, but they want to grow in it. So what would you say, like let's gene splice your speaking career with Beginner's Pluck. Can you give us a little bit of origin story of how you got started with speaking and what people could learn from that?
SPEAKER_02:
Yeah, so my origin story is really I started speaking quote-unquote professional. So let's call what is a professional speaker? I don't know. Somebody invites you to a stage that you did not create for yourself to share a message and maybe even pays you for it. I started doing that purely as a way to promote my company. It was like, I'm working on this other thing. I have this passion. I have this mission. I have this thing that I want to bring about in the world, and I'm literally willing to do most of anything to get it out into the world. So when people started inviting me to come share the story, it was like a no-brainer for me. Like, obviously, if you give me five minutes, 30 minutes up on stage with a captive audience, you'd be a numbnuts not to take that opportunity.
SPEAKER_04:
So I want to pause there because there's so much good stuff in what you just said for people to apply to their own lives. First of all, in the firm, we have what we call the navigate process, which talks, I'm not going to bore you with the details too much, but it breaks down how people can build a successful coaching practice. And one of those things is like having authority. Like, why should anyone hire you in the first place? And you started with authority because you were building a legitimate company and doing really beautiful things in the world. And so then people, you would want to go speak. And it wasn't just like, Liz wants to share her opinion about life. Yes. Yeah. It was something. What were your early talks when people would ask you to come speak? What were they asking you to talk about?
SPEAKER_02:
They actually kind of about my journey, honestly, of kind of like, hey, we heard you're doing this thing. Would you come speak about it? Which in the early days, I'll circle back to why you you have to grow out of that at some point. There's a very important question if you want to become a professional. speaker, communicator, just honestly even just like impact maker that uses storytelling and communication that I will circle back to. But I think even before that, there is this question of what's the life that you're living? Like if your goal in life is just to be a professional communicator, That's actually not that compelling, I don't think. I don't want to, like, dash anybody's dreams, but, like, communication is actually just a means to an end. I think to be a powerful communicator, one of the first things you need to ask yourself is, like, am I living a life and a story worth sharing? And that doesn't have to mean you're, you know, a lot of, you don't have to have climbed Mount Everest, like, or done something, you know, that nobody else has ever done before. I think a lot of people fall into that trap of, like, I have to be extraordinary to have a story worth telling or sharing. And that's not true. In fact, one of the chapters of my book, Beginner's Pluck, is literally own your average. Like that, there's so much nonsense in this stuff around, like, you're extraordinary, you're so special, you just have to believe that you're special. And it's like, okay, if we were all special, special wouldn't actually be a thing. We're actually all probably pretty average. Let's own it. Like, and there's a lot of value to that mindset shift. And so I'm not saying you have to have some sort of, you don't have to be an Olympic gold winner that broke their leg in the middle of the race and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. you do have to legitimately care about something. Like, you have to offstage, I think, in order to change people's lives onstage, offstage. There has to be a message, a truth, a story, a mission that wakes you up in the morning, that makes you feel alive, that sets your heart on fire, in order to, like, channel that passion and energy and authenticity. Because we can just smell it a mile away, Like, when somebody gets on stage and they're like, I googled relevant topics in 2023 for this audience, and, like, I'm going to all of a sudden be the expert in this, although the rest of my life doesn't really show that this is something I care that much about. And so I think the first question I would ask is, like, what's your... Why are you here? What lights you up? What's the life that you're living and actually the story of your life that you want to do well and wholeheartedly and with passion before you even get to a point of, like, what's the story I'm sharing on stage?
SPEAKER_04:
That's right. And then the other thing that was tucked in there in that personal section is you said yes to everything. Now, part of it is you said yes to everything because it was promoting your company. And so it was it was a no brainer that way. But I think oftentimes people get locked into the I don't know, maybe this is like an an end of an appendix to beginner's pluck. Like I hear people say, like, find your niche and only go only go speak to your niche. And I'm like, no, you speak at the garbage guy outside. We'll we'll listen to you. you go outside and you give your keynote. So you were saying yes to everything. You were getting your reps in.
SPEAKER_02:
Getting my reps in, absolutely. And I think especially during that season of life, yes, every yes matters. I mean, I remember one I found myself in some odd situations under the guise of saying yes to a speaking event. But to your point, every yes is a chance to get your reps in. It only matters, however, if you see it as that, as you see it as a learning opportunity, a chance to go, I'm going to try this out. I'm going to pay attention. I'm going to be really curious about what worked and what didn't work. And it's not about like, oh, it has to be this specific audience or it has to be this legitimate or I have to, you know, whatever agenda that you're pushing and instead going like, hey, this is an opportunity for me to do something that I love and then to be really curious about how I can make it better.
SPEAKER_04:
Can you mind telling me like one horror story or one kind of adventures and saying yes to everything public speaking? Did something come to mind?
SPEAKER_02:
This is definitely not a horror story, but I remember kind of early on in my speaking career. I got an email. I had just been in like right outside of Atlanta. It was actually at like a Girl Scout camp in the middle of the woods, which I did not see coming. But anyway, I had just been in Atlanta speaking, and I got an email asking if I would come to Georgia. And I was like, oh, yeah, I'll go back to Georgia. And then I realized that it was actually Georgia the country. That's a thing. So it was Georgia the country, which that ended up not happening. But I did get invited kind of through that conversation to go speak in Estonia. Do you know about Estonia? Have you ever thought about Estonia before?
SPEAKER_04:
You know, I don't spend as much time thinking about it as I should.
SPEAKER_02:
I literally had to Google, like, where is Estonia? What part of the world are we even talking about? But as I said earlier, it's not hard to get me to want to travel, especially to a new place. So I was like, yes, I'm coming to Estonia. And so it was the middle of the winter. It was like December. There's like four hours of sunlight in Estonia a day. I will say it was one of the most, like, charming, magical places that I've ever been. It felt like the North Pole. But it was cold on a weather perspective. And it was kind of cold socially. Like, I remember I walked through the snow to get to this, like, library. It was 8 o'clock in the morning. It was kind of like a social entrepreneur's, like, conference, basically, bringing together people kind of in the social enterprise sector. I was the first speaker in the morning, and it was in this, like, library. And before they introduced me, somebody, like, that was on the board or something, it was their birthday, and so they led everybody in a round of happy birthday. And I will say it was the most depressing happy birthday that I've ever heard. And I was just like, it was it was cold. And I was like, this is going to be one of the challenges of my life right now. Like, this is going to be it. And I will say it was very challenging. I think The Estonians that I met seem to be lovely people deep down, but there is not an air of raucousness or gregariousness in that room. But sometimes you do that. Sometimes, like, you literally step up on stage and you're like, I'm in for it. This is gonna be a challenge. But I think instead of panicking, just, like, being maybe, like, inspired by the challenge of kind of like, well, if I can make these people laugh, we're gonna go for it.
SPEAKER_04:
And that's part of the reps. I think some people think the reps is just like the skill of communicating and it's not. The reps are actually how do you manage yourself emotionally when crazy stuff happens while you're communicating or before or after you're, that's all part of the career of a speaker. You know, I think of some earlier gigs I had, uh, like, you know, 10 years ago, 15 years ago, I, I like flew to a town that probably had less people than my graduation, like graduating class, they had me sleep like in their dead grandmothers. I mean, she wasn't in there, but like, you know, like her her picture was in there and like in this little, you know, cabin. And then I went and did my thing. And on the one hand, you can be like, oh, this sucks. You know, this isn't stars and glamour. And or you can be like, I can't believe that I'm getting, you know, this is great. I get to speak.
SPEAKER_02:
Don't you think that life is just so much better when you don't think you're above stuff? Like, it's just a more fun way to live. Like, be delighted by it. Like, find the humor, find the gift in it. Like, oh my gosh, I just feel like so many people are walking around needing other people to think that they're a big deal, so then they internalize the message, like, I'm a big deal. And I'm just like, what a bummer way to live your life. Like, your world is so small and boring if you're such a big deal.
SPEAKER_04:
Yeah, well, to your point, you miss out on so many opportunities. So then, Liz, what were your talks like back then? How would you diagnose? Because, again, people see who you are. And I want to go back in time as if there were a documentary about you and they're showing the clip of you in Estonia giving your talk. Were you awesome? Were you flying through the air and talking? How would you describe yourself as a communicator when you just start?
SPEAKER_02:
You know, I would say I generally like I love connecting with people. And so that part of it has pretty much always come easy to me in the sense that it's like one of my favorite parts of my life as in this part of my life as it just gives you wonderful access to making connections into building relationships. And so that part, I feel like I've feels more innate. Oh, my actual talks were probably awful. Honestly, the major shift that probably happened between taking me from like a 2 out of 10 to, you know, wherever I am now is asking the really critical question. It was probably just very promotional, would be my guess, would be my like, I'm going to tell you my story. Anybody can tell you the story of their life. That's actually just like reporting. That's reporting. You're a reporter in your own life. You're saying, I did this and then I did this and then I did this and then I did this and now I'm here and now you can buy my stuff. Sacreddesigns.com or, you know, whatever. You don't want to be a reporter when you're communicating. The job of a communicator who actually can change minds or inspire people or create an impact is that you've actually done, frankly, the really challenging work of understanding the universal truths in your story. Because I have to realize, like, probably 0.00001% of anybody who ever hears me speak wants to move to Uganda to start a vertically integrated manufacturing company. Like, that's actually not, most people are not like, I want to do what she did, right? And you have to honor that. Like, you don't want to go into the world going like, my goal and mission in life is to create lots of little mini me's who did what I did. And instead going, what have I learned? what are the truths, and what are the truths that are so true that they applied to me, you know, maybe in this specific story as a 22-year-old who had just moved to East Africa on her own, or as a, you know, mid-30s mom of three, whatever season of life you're in, that are so true that it would also apply to you, and that there's also a really good chance that your dad would be really impacted by that message, even though he's in a completely different industry. And so moving from I'm reporting about what I did to I'm diving in to understand the deeper truths, and then I'm just using my story as like the vehicle to deliver them to you.
SPEAKER_04:
Yeah, that's good. I'm curious what you think about this. The less interesting your life is, the more interesting your talk needs to be. The more interesting your life is, the less gifted you like. If someone who did hike Mount Kilimanjaro, like, you know, cut his own arm off or whatever, he probably doesn't have to Peter Pan his way through the stage. He can sit there and just do his thing. And then obviously the goal is to be both. And I think you hit the both quadrant. You both have lived a life of moral authority in doing something really beautiful and scalable that leaves the world better than you found it with your career. And you strap a harness to yourself and fly through the audience like Peter Pan.
SPEAKER_02:
You know, when I have the opportunity, yes, I do take that without fail.
SPEAKER_03:
Hi, my name is Mike Park, and I'm a proud graduate of the Metta Performance Institute for Coaching. The faculty of the Metta Performance Institute not only provided the training, tools, and experience to learn how to coach people toward powerful growth and thrilling results, but also advocated for that kind of growth and results in my own life. unique opportunity to have world-class executive coaches invest in my development both professionally and personally. It's a privilege to be part of a tribe of coaches fiercely committed to exploring what we are capable of together. If you're looking to become a coach or to set up your coaching practice to reach the next level, I highly recommend the certification from the Metta Performance Institute for Coaching. To fill out a free assessment of your abilities as a coach and to connect with someone to find out if the Metta Performance Institute is for you, check out www.mp.institute.
SPEAKER_04:
I'm going to jump around a little bit. At Pixar, they call it the sweat box. I think they got that from old Disney, where you have the rough cut or whatever, and then you just try to stuff it with as many Easter eggs as you possibly can to make it what would be an eight talk, to make it a spinal tap, turn it up to an 11. When did you get the idea of strapping yourself to something and flying through the air? Was that at the beginning of the talk? Was it in the middle? Or was it like, this something needs a little extra spice. I know, I'll fly through the audience.
SPEAKER_02:
It was pretty actually in the beginning because here's a question that I ask at the onset of any talk that I'm going to give is like if it all, which it does, it all boils down to what is the feeling I want to be in the room at the end of this talk? Like, what is the narrative that folks will have in their head? What is the aroma of what has been created that people will kind of let soak into them and then they will take that out into the world? That actually has nothing to do with the content. It has nothing to do with, like, the words that you're saying. And I work backwards from that. And so for that talk, it was like, I do these things called magic wand sessions, where whether it's solo on my own, I just do it with, you know, like a project that I'm thinking about. I do it with my team, like, hey, we've got a big event coming up. We start with the huge whiteboard, and part of the rules of this type of meeting is that you have to start every single suggestion, idea, thing that you're gonna put out there. You have to say first, if I had a magic wand, and then you say the thing. And it sounds silly, but just by doing that, it creates just a sense of kind of possibility. We self-edit so much because we're afraid of looking stupid. Obviously, we don't have the resources to do that. We don't have anybody on our team that knows that. I think we've tried that before and it didn't work, so it would be dumb if I suggested we do it again. Whatever it is. We just, we edit, edit, edit, edit, edit. And so this is just a way to go like, hey, in this space, actually, no dumb ideas. In fact, if you say something kind of small after you said, if I had a magic wand, that's going to make you actually look a little silly versus like some epic, wild, like, obviously we can't do that right now moment. And then the second rule, if you're doing it with other people, is that after every single person shares an idea that started with, if I had a magic wand, everybody in the room, whether it's two people or 20 people, has to look at the person that shared, and go. And if you have never been in a room full of people who after you share an idea, just pause and look at you and go. I'm telling you, it feels so good. It feels so good. Even if you know that they were, like, mandated by law to do it, it actually still feels really good. And it just kind of creates this sense of energy. And so with that specific talk, that's what I did. I started with, if I had a magic wand, what I want people to feel is a sense of just whimsy and connection and delight and possibility about what their life could be and what the impact is that they could make. And then I started reverse engineering from there. And pretty soon, like, I don't know, pretty soon, somehow there was a connection between that. And like, there needs to be a moment, like there needs to be a moment of kind of like surprise or delight that actually manifests that feeling. And then the beautiful thing about an organization like Global Leadership Summit, which is more definitely more rare than common is you're actually like, oh, we actually have the resources and the production value to kind of pull something like this off. In my latest talk that I gave at Global Leadership Summit about community, I did the exact same thing. It was like what I want people to leave this talk with is a feeling that we're all walking one another home, that we're all connected, that an ingredient to a beautiful life of purpose and passion and impact is actually just doing it together and that you have to take ownership of that. They're a small step. That's not just going to happen. It's not just a magical thing that gets created. Like here's the kind of picture of beauty of living a connected life of support and of authentic and genuine relationship and commitment to one another and go out into the world and take your first step towards it. And so that also involved like we ended up doing this kind of musical moment where it started with me actually singing a cappella, which was the most terrifying thing that I've ever done because I don't have a great voice. And then kind of this, again, a surprise moment of gospel choir coming in and there was an AV thing that was happening in the background because, and my thought behind this was, okay, if I want people to feel connected in a sense of like oneness, what's something that does that? And it's like music does that. Like, when we share, like, music, it sounds so cheesy, but it is. There's something so universal and connecting about a group of people experiencing music in one moment that can really inspire that. So it was like, it's not just random. It's like, what's the feeling I want people to have? And then how do we reverse engineer that with all the tactics that can get us there?
SPEAKER_04:
Yeah, but, you know, you may have heard this story, but we almost put this story in our book. but it didn't make the cut. There's a small courthouse, there was a trial that went sideways, and there was all, there was, you know, police, angry police, angry judge, angry people who were being prosecuted and angry people who were prosecuting, and they're all in this courthouse together, and someone led them in humming together.
SPEAKER_02:
Oh, wow. Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_04:
And it just helped everyone. Not that you still couldn't have your perspective, but it just integrated the space in a really beautiful way.
SPEAKER_02:
And there's really, like, compelling social, or, like, biologically, what happens to us. how like our nervous system does start to calm, how like kind of our fear mechanisms and the things that really push us into kind of fight or flight. It's really powerful. And so we have these tools. They're like these ancient tools, but they're available to us. But we just have to be intentional with how we're using them.
SPEAKER_04:
Well, you're winking at where I want to spend most of our time in the conversation, at least the remainder of our time. But before that, first of all, I want to double click on the wave of magic wand. That's one of our coaches' favorite phrases. All of our coaches ask that. In fact, by the way, Liz, sometimes we'll actually send clients magic wands.
SPEAKER_02:
Oh my gosh. I love that. I have made one magic wand in my life, but I might, when we're offline, ask you for your magic wand source because this is great news.
SPEAKER_04:
Happy to do that. And but what we don't do is that wow thing. And I really, really like that. And I know if any of our coaches are listening, they're gonna be like, Oh, that's an upgrade. And by the way, I think that's a good talk. That's a fun little keynote. I don't know how often you reinvent new keynotes. But I can see the ending of the talk already where you end it with you saying some kind of dream for them. And they all go. And then that's the end of the that's the mic drop.
SPEAKER_02:
I like it.
SPEAKER_04:
By the way, this is a little self-serving, but when you write your article on Beginner's Pluck, the sequel to Beginner's Pluck, all about public speaking, I would love some, you mentioned with Craig that you have like an emotional map or whatever. I don't know if you did that with the harness talk. I want to protect your GLN talk because my guess is you're still tinkering with that and making that and taking that out and letting it see what it can do in the world. But I would, if you would ever be willing to share an emotional map with the world, I would be thrilled to be one of the people in the world who sees that.
SPEAKER_02:
Do you mean like almost like the diagram of here's the actual talk and here's how I mapped it out? Yes. I would totally do that.
SPEAKER_04:
Oh, that would be so fascinating.
SPEAKER_02:
Every idea is better shared. And I would, and yes, I do that. It's become like very, yes, when I put something out in the world, I do the emotional mapping to it. And it gets like, it's like, you know, diagramming a sentence when you're in third grade. It's like doing that with an entire piece of content. but purely from kind of an emotional feelings lens to really understand the journey that you're going on with people. That is awesome.
SPEAKER_04:
Yeah, I'm so... I'm, like, giddy to be able to look at how the sausage is made in your mind. You know, I imagine when you're putting together a talk, you're like John Nash in A Beautiful Mind, and you're, like, writing on the windows and talking to your imaginary friend in the corner, and it's all, like, very, very exciting.
SPEAKER_02:
And, uh... That actually might be... It might hit too close to home. That might be true. I feel like between that and then you starting off this conversation telling me that I would be a great comic book villain, we're getting lots of... I'm getting great beautiful mind insights into how you perceive me, and I'm mostly delighted, to be honest.
SPEAKER_04:
Yeah, right. Like I see you. I think that's a compliment. We did do a whole thing earlier before we hit the record button. I think you would. I think that I think that you because you're pleasant and lovely and and charming and likable and warm. And then also, you know, like maybe it wouldn't be like shocked if you, you know, like overthrew a government someday or, you know, just like whatever. Like I just I could see it going either way. That's all I'm saying.
SPEAKER_02:
So I was in a really bad car accident this past summer, actually right before GLS. It was such a bummer. And I such a bummer. I split open my chin and I got 60 stitches. You can't really see it because Zoom's kind of friendly. I have a pretty big scar. Like I have a pretty big gash across my chin, which to be very honest and vulnerable, it's like it's a bummer. It's a bummer to have a scar on your face. The thing that makes me feel kind of good about it is I'm like, I think it's that it a little bit contributes to the like, maybe she was in a maybe she is in the CIA. She has like a unexplained huge gash on her face. There's like a small part of like, don't mess with me that comes from having a scar on your face that I feel like I'm like, OK, that's a vibe I can lean into.
SPEAKER_04:
So so before we downshift in the community, one last question around the speaking thing and the reps there. So then give me one more double click on Well, first of all, do you have an agent or anything? Is that because I know so many people go that. So you have an agent.
SPEAKER_02:
But I didn't for a very long time.
SPEAKER_04:
Yeah. And so then what was that process like? Because then I'm thinking about people who are my friends who are listening to this, who are starting to get the reps. OK, so yeah, Jason, we're going to get the reps and we're going to say, yes, we're going to live a life that's interesting enough to where we have things authentically to share about the things that we care about, we believe in. What's the next step after that?
SPEAKER_02:
Honestly, I do feel like whether you it's easy and this applies to anybody who's aspiring to do anything. It's so easy to get into what I call like silver bullet mentality of like, once I get this, then it'll all fall in place. Then it'll all work. Or once I reach this level of success, then success will actually just kind of the momentum will carry me through what the rest of my life. And I think building a vocation as a storyteller or communicator is the same as any other. There's no silver bullet. There's no silver bullet. So I write like my my experience with I went through dozens of agents. That did not do anything. And I now have an incredible team. And yet I will still say it's like anything else. Like you got like no one cares about your business. No one cares about your message. No one cares about your story. If you don't deeply care about it. And so there's never going to be a moment where you're just like, oh, if I could just because I think, you know, with. authors, there is a sense of like, well, once I get an agent or once I get the publishing deal, or, you know, if you're an entrepreneur, like once we get this specific VC to invest, like we just kind of hold out these then. And it's like, no, every single day, you're going to have to be the one that cares about it, that's passionate about it, that's putting yourself out there, that's building the connections. And so what your next step is, is just keep doing small things every single day to build it up, to build your credibility, to build your passion and excitement for it. to build your and hone in on your craft.
SPEAKER_04:
I love that answer. There's no silver bullet. But one thing that kind of is a silver bullet is community. And that was the subject of your last... It's a bullet that bites, that's for sure. But that was the subject of your GLN talk. And Liz, in our company, we have a value for what we call nobility. And there's four pillars. There's prosperity, creating value in the world. Then there's creativity, creating value in the world in a way that's unique and authentic to you. Then there's generosity, doing it in a way that's not just about you. And then there's community. And so when I heard you give that talk, I was like, oh man, that's like really, you're singing a song that resonates so deeply with our clients and with our coaches. And I don't want to steal the talk away, but I do want you, if you're up for it, to tell a little bit of some of the adventures in intentional community building. And just as a heads up, you said something at the very beginning when you teased it at the beginning of the podcast, where you said, how do you benefit from it, but also take responsibility? And I love that conversation. Like, how can you take personal responsibility for you customizing the kind of community that you need in order or maybe that you need? And so but we'll I'll make sure that we emphasize that later. In the meantime, just walk us through a little bit of your community journey and some of the most recent adventures in community building.
SPEAKER_02:
Yeah, I think it really, for me, you know, I had the opportunity so early on in my adult life, really. I didn't grow up traveling, actually. I was like, grew up in Missouri. We went to Florida on vacation. Like, I didn't have a childhood experience, but pretty early on in my adult life, started living and working and traveling all over the globe. And I will say that trying to work in a different country or trying to live in a different country is also, by the way, very different than being a tourist. When you go to a when you when you're a tourist, you're just you are who you are and you take your home culture and you just bring it kind of to a new set and location. When you are trying to, like, build something and have colleagues and relationships, just the it's like getting your Ph.D. in a culture like one week of trying to build a company in a different country. equals, you know, like 9,800 vacations that you took to the place. And one of the things that occurred to me so early on through my just-lived experience is, oh, the rest of the world does not live like us. And there are some ways that I think specifically as an American, you see the negative, the hard parts, right? Where it's like I'm going to Uganda and seeing how many kids are dying of, you know, malaria or malnourishment. But in that can be such the lens, right? Of like, oh, we live in the West and we live in the land. We are so blessed. And so we go to these other lands to show people, you know, that from our abundance. And there's truth to that. We have a surplus of certain things here in the West. It also occurred to me of like, whoa, we have such a deficit and a lot of places in the world are not experiencing that same level of deficit. And specifically the deficit of connection, community, support, authentic relationships, just social networks and fabrics that are tight, that can be depended on, that have longevity. And I started just being really curious about like how, none of this is by accident, right? And we know this as we think about creating, let's say a culture within our company. if you don't create the culture, a culture will be created. Like that's a great, like every leader needs to know and understand if you're not actively building the culture and putting a fair amount of your time and energy into it, it's not that you won't have a company culture. It's just that it'll happen without you. And 99.999% of the times, that's not great. That's not where you want to be, right? And so kind of going like, well, this isn't just like culture. This isn't just Ugandan culture. This just isn't like, you know, the culture in India or in Peru, like, there are actions that folks are taking every single day. There are priorities. There are ways of living. There are micro decisions that are actually building this culture day in and day out. And what are those? And are those exclusive to living in rural India? Are those exclusive to living in Uganda? Are those exclusive to living in, you know, the mountains in Peru? Or are there actually beautiful truths and disciplines and priorities that, I don't know, I could take home and start building a different way of existing in a culture that, frankly, is not very well. Our strengths are not in building community support, authentic relationships. Because of our cultural focus, priority, glamorization of things like independence, like we hugely value independence. We really value privacy. So we have these cultural values. We really value convenience. And none of those things are wrong in and of themselves. I don't think independence is an evil thing. I don't think privacy is bad. I don't think convenience is inherently wrong. However, you're kind of going, okay, here are the priorities. Here's how we're going to start making our decisions. Those do all happen to be values that can keep us from building lives that feel deeply connected and rooted and in connection with other people. And so that kind of started me on my journey of basically going like, Well, do I have to do it the way that everybody else? Like, do I have to graduate from college and then go get the job to afford the house that's kind of far out in the suburbs because I want a certain amount of square footage, and I'm moving 35 minutes away from my friends? But it's okay because I have a car, but then I'm realizing it's actually not really okay, and I'm never gonna see my friends again. And then I start having babies, and now it takes, like, you know, an absolute PhD and a lot of money to get the babysitters to line them. You know, just, like, all of these things, and going, like, who said we It doesn't seem like it's working very well for a lot of people. Let's try something different. And that kind of started me out on my journey of building the life and the community that I wanted because I did realize pretty early on, I'm not just going to find it. Like I'm not going to stumble into it and there's just a seat for me waiting at the table. If I want it, I just have to go kind of do it.
SPEAKER_04:
Yeah, and I want to pause there because and then we'll double click on some of the things you've been doing with the property and the and the different homes that your friends have built, you know, around the same area and and things like that. But what I really love and for people who are listening to this is and you know how this works, Liz, oftentimes the higher you rise in like success and or leadership or authority, the lonelier, more isolated you feel. And and so which means the solution that is not to be chronically lonely or to just say that it is what it is or whatever the solution that is a fight against that current. Yep. and to do what's necessary. And by the way, the more you fight into that current, it feels like a cost, but actually you're going to get about 10 times back from you. And I also notice people oftentimes, I want to be gentle about this because I don't want to be disrespectful to people's, how people are currently perceiving it. But oftentimes people think, people default to it's somebody else's job to build community for me. And I get that. I'm not wired that way, and neither are you. That's not the way an entrepreneur's mind thinks. But there's something that's not happening to me. Someone else should do it for me. And I'm telling you right now, community does not work that way. And so Liz, go ahead. Feel free to rip off of that, but I was going to ask you another question.
SPEAKER_02:
Yeah, no, I definitely that is you touched on two things that I feel like are keeping people from building lives that prioritize connection and community. The first is a sense of inevitability of this is just how it works. Like I see this meme on Instagram all the time, especially as a mom, that it's like, you know, they say it takes a village to raise a child. And then the next thing is, so where is the village? Is there a 1-800 number I can call? Like I've seen this meme like 500 times. And it's funny because it totally resonates and it actually shows us a really deep truth that that kind of is like there's this sense of like, well, I don't know. Is there a number that I can call? Because this just kind of feels like it is the way that it is. And loneliness is such an interesting thing. Because can you imagine if every time you felt hunger, instead of being like, oh, I'm feeling hunger, I'm noticing those pains, you know, like I know what it feels like to be hungry, that's a signal my body needs food. My next step is go find food. Walk down to the kitchen, go to the grocery store, find the food truck, whatever it is. We allow that signal to go, oh, it doesn't have to be this way. Like, can you imagine if you felt hunger and you were just like, I mean, it's just a bummer part about being a human. I'm just gonna all, I'm just gonna feel hungry. And then you're confused when eight hours later you haven't done anything different and you're like, whoa, this pain is even, I'm really hungry. But I guess that's just part of being human. No, obviously. It's so clear to us and so easy for us to understand, oh, hunger is a signal that you need to change your behavior to fix the hunger because you weren't made, you were created to walk around feeling hungry. Loneliness is literally the exact same thing. It is psychological and emotional hunger. It is your mind and your body going, I'm hungry. I'm lonely. I don't have the support and connection that I need. And statistics would say over 70% of Americans feel that way. Yet the percentage of Americans who feel that and then go, OK, cool. Like, I'm a human who's wired to need community and support. I'm going to go take a step towards that, even if it's a small step. And instead, so many people just go, I guess this is just what it's like to be a human. Sucks to be us. And so there is one, a sense of inevitability, and then two, a sense of a lack of feeling like a sense of autonomy, like I can actually change that. And then there is I'm picking up what you're putting down and agreeing with it of adding a third gentle Probably the third thing is a sense of kind of entitlement of like, somebody else should do it. I'm lonely. It's their fault. I'm lonely. It's because my boss hasn't built community in my organization. I'm lonely. It's because she has not pursued me in the way, you know, or it's because my spouse, it's so much scarier to go, Oh, what is it you could be doing? And it's so much easier and psychologically safe to go, I feel this kind of big, scary feeling. Let me just point the finger at somebody else for not doing it. And there, that happens as well.
SPEAKER_01:
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SPEAKER_04:
And those three things, I think, compound on each other into like a vicious cycle of loneliness. So someone else's job is just the way that it is. You know, there's nothing I can do. And oftentimes, you know, so I used to be a pastor and I still love faith communities. I know faith communities. And I noticed that people, even like in an average faith community, people, their lives blossom more than a no community. And obviously toxic, abusive communities exist, and that's no good. But I'll oftentimes say, hey, look, like faith communities, it's not like when you are shifting faith communities, because that happens sometimes. it's not like it's like shifting it's like like finding a new boyfriend or something where you can be single for a while it's more like uh oxygen you don't get to choose not to breathe you need to breathe and just like you need community whether it's a faith community or if it's a club or a you know whatever and i also find liz is sometimes like great becomes the enemy of good we're trying to especially with leaders i find they are so good at optimizing their lives into perfection and that never works in community
SPEAKER_02:
And here's another thing that's happened that hasn't always historically been true. So you mentioned faith communities, so let's just go there. There's lots of different sub-communities that do this, but let's talk about what church looked like 50 years ago, right? If you were a Christian in a town and you grew up in a Baptist home, let's say it, and you're like, I want to keep being a Baptist. you're going to walk your little self down to the First Baptist Church on Main Street, and you're like, this is it for me. This is the Baptist Church in my community, and I'm going to walk in, and these are going to be my people, to some degree. You know, like, these will be people who I show up with meals, I'm under this leader's, you know, level of authority, I show up every single week. I don't know who's like, and I'm not handpicking these people. It's just like, you get what you get in the First Baptist Church on Main Street, okay?
SPEAKER_04:
That's right. There's 75 of you, and here it is.
SPEAKER_02:
And here it is. And here it is. The likelihood that you specifically like a high percentage of those 75 people is pretty low. It's like you kind of just go in expecting there's going to be crotchety old people. There's going to be some annoying young people. There's going to be folks that hold different views. But you're just kind of like, this is what it is. First Baptist Church in Main Street, whatever. We'll fast forward now to the year of our Lord, 2023, and like, what is church even? Even for the folks who are still in a faith community, all of a sudden, like, church shopping is a thing. That's like a phrase that people in this subculture use of like, I want to go be a part of a faith community. I'm going to go shopping for my designer ideal community, where it has the music that I love, the people that I love, the pastor that I feel super inspired by, the chairs that feel super comfortable, whatever it is. And listen, I'm not saying that the process of trying to find a church, you're wrong if you're doing that. I'm using it as an example to go, you've gotten, you're designing your life to the point where you are surrounding yourself by people who are as like you as possible, and you're kind of picking and choosing. And there is a real thing that we have just lost in ourselves to go, but what if I'm just around people and I love them because they're who is in front of me to love because they're my neighbor and not because I handpicked them and not because I selected them, but because they are there and I am here and we have really lost an ability to just be with people who are different than us. And, you know, the moment that somebody causes us discomfort to go, that's a toxic person. And listen, I want to say this acknowledging, if you have toxic, abusive people in your relationship, put up your boundaries, do what you need to do, get out and make a change. There is a difference between someone being toxic and abusive and them just being different than you, or them just rubbing you,
SPEAKER_04:
Yeah, being as broken as you are.
SPEAKER_02:
Or just being as broken as you are. And I think if we operate in the world, going the moment I feel that sense of discomfort, it's like, boundaries, ignore, separate, that's self-care, whatever it is, like, what is on the other side? of relationships that you sewed into and that you worked through and that you showed up with tenderness and vulnerability and commitment to one another and you gave each other the freedom to actually be different and to lean in to the areas that you share, you're going to miss out on such richness on the other side.
SPEAKER_04:
So you're doing, you're putting your money where your mouth is
SPEAKER_02:
Literally. Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:
And you know, I always want to be honest about like the difference between like a best practice and an experiment. I feel like you're really good at experimentation and these might be best practices. So as you're listening to this, Liz is going to share some stuff that her and her friends are doing and like take what works for you. Take the good stuff. Find your version of how to connect. My hope would be if you listen to this, you'd be inspired by what Liz is about to say. And just for you to dial up your intentionality around building community, like just a little bit, like if you just 10 degrees, That might be a lot, I don't know, but like some little degree. So Liz, talk about what you've been doing with your friends and what this journey has looked like for you in the last couple of years.
SPEAKER_02:
Oh, OK. So I want to where my mind went was to talk about the principle of proximity, which I'm super passionate about. I'm not going to talk about that because it's not the most accessible principle. It's not where you have to start. So I deeply believe in one of the things that I learned living across the globe in communities that felt the most deeply connected is that they were living in proximity. They did not have to schedule two weeks in advance to get together because they had structured their lives geographically in ways that there were just natural intersections literally every single day. And so that has really guided our community out here in Portland, where we have literally bought property. We bought a single-family lot, managed to fit three little homes on them. So we share property. We've kind of grown from there. So on a daily basis, I am interacting with my neighbors a dozen times probably in the summer when we're all outside. So there's just like all of this natural overlap. I said I wasn't going to start there and then I obviously talked about it a little bit. Plug for proximity. But what I don't want your listeners to do is go, well, I can't do that. I can't move or go build a commune with my friends. So like there's nothing else. I want to say like that was step like nine or 10 in the process. Okay. The first place, I think the most powerful thing to build in community is just commitment. is getting a small group of people together. One, cast the vision. Like, if you have a vision, no one can read your mind. No one can read your mind. You actually have to say it. You have to articulate it. It feels really vulnerable to be like, I have a vision for this type of relationship or community or friendship. Would you try it with me? Would you come into this?" It feels so vulnerable because that's the thing about loneliness. There's so much social stigma. We're all feeling so lonely, but yet none of us want to admit that we're the lonely ones because we think that we're admitting that we're unlovable or that we're a loser, right? And it's like, oh, sweet ones. No, this has nothing to do with your worthiness. It's just your body saying, Yeah, gotta amp it up. Gotta try a little bit harder in this area. So one is articulating what you want from relationships and what your vision is, but then quickly following that would just be commitment. So in our community, I would really say the whole thing started with, there was a group of gals in our community, and there was a group of guys, and every single Wednesday night, for years and years and years, we got together, and it started when we were young and single and didn't have kids, and we would meet at bars and pubs and, you know, whatever. But even then, we would get around a table, and there was a stated purpose to the gathering, and it wasn't just to hang out. It wasn't like, let's go get drinks and just small talk. It was like, let's go get around a table and share our life. And it literally started the first probably six or seven meetings, if you will, where we went around the table, and each person that was participating got the entire night to be like, what's your life story in two hours? And just like, we called it putting you in the hot seat. And so it would just be like, what are the most important things about who you are, about where you've come from? You could have questions asked, you could have reflections coming back to you. And so automatically, that takes it from like, oh, we're like chatting about how work's going, or like our sleep schedules with the babies, or whatever it is, to going like, this is gonna be real, and we're going deep. And then the commitment to the actual time is like, you don't miss a Wednesday night. Like, it really is. Like, hey, this isn't like, if you're sick, really sick, or you're out of town, okay. But like, you know, and I say, actually, that this started in Portland. This really started, if we're going to reverse, I started doing this in college with my six roommates, who happen to not happen to be. It's not a happenstance. It's not luck. They are my like ride or die were however many years out of college now, a long time in the decades. And these are the women that I'm like, they know me, they can speak truth into my life, I am held accountable to them and by them. And it was with that group, it was Monday nights, Monday nights at 10pm was our roomie meeting. And it was just a high level of commitment. And so much friendship and connection isn't happening because people just have completely normalized not being committed to stuff and just, like, not showing up. And it's like, how are you going to build a beautiful life and community if you're at home watching Netflix because you felt a little uncomfortable or a little bit tired or a little bit overwhelmed? Like, a beautiful life, I actually believe, is just you have a handful, not even that many, you have a handful of things that you've said, I am committed to this. this matters, this is important, I will prioritize it, I will get a babysitter, I will not plan things for that night, and just showing up for one another. And you can start there.
SPEAKER_04:
Well, and so then if you're listening to this, where are the relational spaces where you are reasonably slash too fiercely committed to those relational spaces? And, you know, it's like there's two other guys that we get together. Now I live in New York. I lived in L.A. for 20 years and I moved. I fell in love and got married and I live in New York. And that's what happens when you fall in love. And so then we zoom in or I'll fly to L.A. maybe when I can to for us to be together. But three guys. And it is it's like we're doing this and it yields results. And the other thing I wanted to ask you about this is a little bit about putting you on the spot. So I have an opinion about this. And I think you had a shared experience, but we'll see. So I make up that it's not enough to hang out. Like hanging out is not community. There has to be hanging out with an asterisk next to it like a plus. So whether it's, you know, intentional face to face, stuff like putting people in the hot seat and asking questions and diving deep, which some people would like love more than anything. And then other people I can, I can tell would be like, Oh God, like that would be the most like my palms are sweating. Just thinking about that. I find that like some people do community best face to face and other people do community best shoulder to shoulder. And so I'm curious with your friends, even as you've moved closer together, but over the trajectory, was there also not just hanging out, but like serving together or volunteering together or, and I'd love for you to share with our audience what that looked like.
SPEAKER_02:
Yeah, honestly, not super formal in the sense that it's like we all volunteer for this organization together. I would say that we all have different things that we're, I think, uniquely passionate about. And there is kind of a general sense and rule of like wanting to come alongside one another. And like part of love is looking at somebody and going, I care about that because you care about that. So if this is important to you, it doesn't matter that it's not really that important to me. We're going to show up and we're going to do that thing. So kind of almost like being led by the individual who's going, this matters to me and a bunch of other individuals going like, it kind of matters to me. It maybe doesn't matter to me, but it matters to him. So we're going to show up and we're going to be a part of this. And so kind of that sense, which also totally emboldens the individual members of a community when they feel that sense of like, the impact that I can make is even bigger than what I could do all by myself and on my own. Because I've got a group of people that if I came to this group of people, And I said, this matters so much to me. Can we make this happen? I have confidence that my people would go, okay, yeah, let's do it, you know? And that is so emboldening to go, it's not just me on my own. And so part of it is honestly just like supporting your friends in their interests and in their passions. And then I would say we all just feel a mutual kind of sense of care for our neighborhood. So our neighborhood has kind of become the thing of like the area of town that we live in. We don't want to be just like a weird little cliquey cult on the corner. That's just kind of like, you know, like where community can go wrong. It's okay to be inward focused to get like that commitment. and that sense of intimacy and authenticity. And I actually don't believe this is controversial opinion, but I feel pretty passionate about it. You can't scale intimacy. You only have the capacity to be truly intimate with a certain amount of people. And that number varies for people. For some people, it's like two. And the upper, upper, upper is probably about 12 for people who have a high relational capacity. We just can't as humans. And so that's okay. I think that's actually kind of part of how we were created. We don't have to beat ourselves up about it. So I am actually a fan of like the core most intimate relationships in your life. You can't scale them. Like if you just keep inviting people in and it gets bigger and bigger and bigger. Cool. Now you have a town hall and a nonprofit that you're running and that's very different than a small committed group of friends. So I take very seriously kind of this idea of protecting intimacy and relationships. Where that can go wrong is if you've built a life where you're like, I do have the connection and support that I need over here in my little world. And so, check, I'm done. Just going to live my happy little life over there. Like, actually, true community, I think, is when your bucket is filled, it starts to overflow to other people. And you start to go, how are we actually creating a broader sense of, well, my needs are met, so I'm not, like, doggy paddling to get my own psychological and emotional needs met every day. Great. So now you actually have capacity to be for that kind of aroma, for that sense of relationship to spill out to those around you. And so if you care a lot about community and you feel like, I've got all of my friends, but you're not leaving a wake of community and connection behind you, that actually is probably a signal that like, ooh, it's gotten off the rails a little bit. And you're becoming a little bit kind of like insular and flicky, for lack of a better word.
SPEAKER_04:
Yeah, it would be the distinction between intimacy and insularity is what I hear. And then also I hear you saying you can't scale intimacy, but you should scale community. And so you should be either by people listening to this saying, okay, where am I doing both? And I feel like some people index one towards the other. Some people are really good with those one, two, three connection people, but they tend to be a little more insular. And some people are like the life of the party and they're able to, you know, they've got a thousand friends, but they really struggle with the intimacy. And, you know, this isn't a personality assessment. I actually think to be healthy is to develop both. within whatever it is you're capable of with other people. Does that ring true for you or would you want to put an asterisk next to that?
SPEAKER_02:
No, totally. I mean, I think so like a really practical example of that would be, so I'm living in this community. I really do. And I say this, my perspective is that it is part really hard work and it is part totally actually a gift from God. Like I just love, I feel really supported. I have really beautiful lifelong friendships and relationships that I rely on every single day. My bucket in a lot of ways is really full. I was on maternity leave with my – I think it was with my – no, it was with Jack and I spent a fair amount of time just kind of walking around our neighborhood. And I kept running into moms in our neighborhood. And I kept – that I didn't know, you know. And there was this part of me that at first – so I started giving my phone number out. We should get together for coffee. And then it's not too long before I'm like, I'm overwhelmed. I got too many coffee dates. Like you can't like. And so I was like, you know what? Actually, maybe the way that I build community in our neighborhood isn't go to coffee with every single person you meet. Actually, what's way better, and they would probably, frankly, enjoy way more, is like, let the moms meet. Let them meet one another. And so I was like, hey, you know what? Actually, I'm going to start a text thread. And every time I meet a mom in our neighborhood, I am adding you to the mom's text thread. And when I started, there were four people on it. I said, drop a picture of your family, you know, tell us what area of the neighborhood you live in. And then what I did was kind of just like backed out. I was like, I don't need to be the center of the moms. Like, I'm just one. Now there's probably 40 women on the text thread. And it has been so fun. Like, actually, sometimes the most beautiful thing that you can do to be a community builder is to kind of, boop, put the people in the room and then Irish exit a little bit sometimes. Not in your intimate core relationships. Then the name of the game is, like, staying in the game and sitting in the seat and not leaving when it gets hard. But that would be, to me, that's the difference between, what I didn't do is said, oh, you're, like, and you've got a newborn and you're kind of lonely, you should join our Wednesday night group of intimate, committed people for life. Like, because that's my intimate space. And it's like, that can't scale, but I don't think I'm a person who truly is like a community builder if I'm not going like, but I care about your loneliness and I care about the fact that you live nine doors down and you're feeling a sense of disconnection, the answer isn't come into this specific space, but maybe it's something wholly different. And my hope is that the vast majority of those women have made individual, or maybe there's four of those women, I don't know, I don't care, that are meeting on their own, and they're not inviting me into it, and that would make me so happy.
SPEAKER_04:
Yes, there's so much. Okay, so to be continued, Liz, and we're out of time. And so I had an intuition that I just really enjoy the way you engage with life. And I love the catalytic nature of it. I love the intentionality of it. I love, and of course, I love that you're a dynamic communicator about that. And so I'm excited as you continue to steward your life and the experiments that you're doing to benefit others, where that's going to lead. But in the meantime, thank you for being on our show, Liz. Thank you for caring about so many things that our firm cares deeply about. I think I cannot wait for folks to listen to this conversation. I think it's going to really spark a lot of interesting conversation. And I can't wait to see your emotional map of your talks.
SPEAKER_02:
Well, Jason, thank you so much for this space that you've cultivated and created and for so generously welcoming me in for a little visit.
SPEAKER_04:
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