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If you want a wrestling podcast that keeps it 100% real on all the topics you love, you’ve com to the right place. No Gimmicks is dedicated to bringing you commentary from the worlds of pro wrestling, entertainment and when the moment calls for it, social events. Be warned, don’t come with a closed mind. This isn’t a gimmick show.
Yo. Yo. Yo. Yo. Yo.
Blak Makk:Yo. What is up, people? Welcome back to the no gimmicks podcast here on the DFPN. We are back, and we are outside of Patreon for our 1st show of the month. Thank you guys so much for tuning in.
Blak Makk:We got a good show for you guys tonight. Lot of good stuff happening. Before we get into the show, before I kick off the announcements, I wanna give a, I wanna give a shout out to brother Marquise from the 2 live crew. You may not have known, but brother Marquise was briefly a part of the DFPN. And, he had a show, my art, my rules that we were working on.
Blak Makk:Unfortunately, that never that never really took off, but we wanna send his family our deepest condolences. Shout out to, brother Marquise. May you rest in peace, brother. Thank you for bringing us your light. Thank you for, making a lot of us young kids understand what the dirtiness of the world was.
Blak Makk:You are very much appreciated. May your travels be good, and, rest well, my brother. Peace on. Now let's get to the the show. Welcome.
Blak Makk:Shout out to our sponsors, Conn's Custom Creations. Shout out to her. Follow her atig@cons_customscreations. Follow us on the Patreon. We are working today.
Blak Makk:This has been a busy week for Patreon. So shout out to Mac aka your boy. We had memes on Monday. Normally, no gimmicks is taped on Patreon. But, again, our 1st show of the month, we actually do that one outside the paywall.
Blak Makk:But follow us at patreon, www.patreon.com/daphillenpodcast, and make sure you subscribe to the bandcamp, daflin.bandcamp.com. And to my cohost, the fabulous one, Frankie d. What's up, buddy? How you doing?
Frank Dee:What's up, man?
Blak Makk:We got a good show, man. We got a good show. Before we get before we go into, the meat and potatoes, I did wanna throw some out. I wanna follow-up on on a conversation we had last week, and that is the one we had about Anakin Skywalker.
Frank Dee:Yeah. Look. Hold on. Hold on a second.
Blak Makk:Go ahead. Go ahead.
Frank Dee:Before we before we get to all that. So, alright, I I believe in being transparent here. So I'm gonna be transparent. Alright? So the other night, okay, I I was checking out numerous, different videos, of Star Wars, and I came across, one of the actors from the acolyte talking about how, you know, Annie can destroy the whole death star, which I I had to go back to the movies and watch that because you know?
Frank Dee:So I kind of engaged in a conversation with 1 of, you know, my fellow podcasters. Yep. You you know who you are, Rob. So, basically, the conversation, yeah, kinda went a little sideways. Alright?
Frank Dee:Now I'll be honest. You you you you kinda pissed me off. You you did. You you you pissed me off. Alright?
Frank Dee:And and and me being, you know, I'm, you know, Puerto Rican and black. You know? I I got a I got a fiery, fiery temper.
Blak Makk:It's all zone.
Frank Dee:Yeah. I I I you know? So shit gets on. So I brought up some stuff, and he said he was gonna entertain this mess and whatever, whatever. Alright?
Frank Dee:So I'm like, okay. This motherfucker just blew me off. So it pissed me. It it it pissed me off. Right?
Frank Dee:I it it did. I came to you and told you what's up. Right? Yep. So thought about it for a couple days.
Frank Dee:Because at the time I get into my fields, I'm like, well, you know, whatever. Like, blah blah blah blah blah. You know what I mean? That's just how I am. No.
Frank Dee:I'm like, this shit is this shit is stupid as fuck to me, bro. Like, this is really, like, dumb. Right? So I was apparent I didn't know this, but, apparently, he sent me a message. I didn't even listen to the message.
Frank Dee:I deleted the shit because I I was still in my feels. And then you just told me what's up. So I'm like, alright. I'm a just I'm a be a real one, and I'm a just come on here and address this shit.
Blak Makk:Yep.
Frank Dee:Just say, I'm a say, I'm a say, we don't have no problem. We ain't got no beef. I look forward to talking to you. And that's pretty much that's that's the it is what it is. You know what I mean?
Frank Dee:Like, that's the thing about DFPN. Because quite honestly, I was actually and and I'm gonna I'm gonna be full blown transparent here with everything.
Blak Makk:Go ahead.
Frank Dee:A lot of people don't know more of the conservative type. Okay?
Blak Makk:Mhmm.
Frank Dee:I I am I am very conservative. Alright? But I also listen to the other side. So I just felt my I just felt my representation of the DFP. And it's like, if I if I say something, it's a problem if I say something.
Frank Dee:If people don't agree with it. And I actually went to you there and I sent you a message probably, and I said, you know, I'm actually thinking about just leaving the network. I'm actually thinking about this will be if we record no gimmicks, this is gonna be the last episode of no gimmicks that I'm gonna do because I just Right. Belong in the network. I belong in the system.
Frank Dee:And that's just me being in my fields because of the entire climate of how everything is right now. Right. And then I thought about it for a little while, and I say, you know, fuck that. You know? I have a voice, and I'm gonna You do.
Frank Dee:I I'm gonna fucking stand on my beliefs. I'm not going to just say, okay. You know what? I'm not gonna talk. No.
Frank Dee:I'm gonna fucking talk because that's the problem. No one talks. It's always one side Exactly. Side of the conversation. So we will continue to do what we do here on no gimmicks, which makes it work.
Frank Dee:You have your opinion. I have my opinion. And then we mesh those as well, and we have good, great dialogue. And that's no different than any of the other hosts that I've ever interacted here on DAPN, whether it be Jeff, whether it be Rob, whether it be Mac, anybody we've ever done any business with, and that's just how it goes.
Blak Makk:Yep. So
Frank Dee:I just wanted to clear the air on that being a full transparent here. It's only the fabulous one to do. Dark Lord of the Sith. I want out here and just say, hey, Rob. No hard feelings, bro.
Frank Dee:I I if you had just told me that you know, whatever, I would've been like, whatever. But the way the way it came off to me was, like, this dude is, like, saying, fuck you. Fuck your opinion. Fuck you. Whatever.
Frank Dee:That's that's how I took it. You know? And on top of it, I'm at fucking work already. I'm dealing with fucking retards. So, you know, that's just what it is.
Frank Dee:So that's what it is, man. So No. I mean, that's yeah.
Blak Makk:No. That's that's that's grown shit. I I appreciate it. But you gotta know too, like, a lot of DFPN. Like, we we come from the military, so it's easy for us to speak and not really hold no no grudges on what's coming back.
Blak Makk:So the fact that you have your opinions, bro, like, I appreciate the shit out of it. And I'm not the only one. I'm not the only one on the network that appreciates your stances on shit and how you approach it because all of us know that what you're saying, like, you're being honest with it. And and at the end of the day, even if even if it's something, like, we really don't like, which it ain't a lot of shit you say that's just, like, outlandish. You speaking your truth.
Blak Makk:You know what I'm saying? So a lot of us a lot of us appreciate
Frank Dee:that shit. I just I I just well, what I what I always comes to the table with and what I've always tried to do, and it's just, you know, not even just what I do. And I I just I I see through, I call, bullshittery. I I just I see through it. I can you know, that's how I am.
Frank Dee:I'm I'm that way with people too. I can see your game because it's I'm street smart like that. So I can see Right. The the game being played. You feel me?
Frank Dee:And that's that's all it is. It's just it's all games here. It's like you're not really standing for what you say you're standing for. You're you're you're doing other shit, and that's that's what I'm getting at here. And that's that's kinda where it's kinda where I was at with you.
Frank Dee:You feel me? And maybe it it wasn't maybe I wasn't correlating the same you know, the way it should have been going. I don't know what it was. It just maybe the I don't know. The the universe wasn't you know, the the the force wasn't balanced that night.
Frank Dee:I I don't know what it was. It was late. It was early on my end because I you know, I was on duty. Right. You were so Yeah.
Frank Dee:Yeah. Yeah. I'm wired. You know what I mean? So so
Blak Makk:No, man. Like, chill like that, bro. Like, it it's easy for us to to talk about it. Even if we disagree on shit, it's easy for us to be like, I respect the fuck out of the opinion. You know what I'm saying?
Blak Makk:Like, I and I do. Which is why I know that the show works because we we have different opinions on shit, and we're able to talk about it. Like, what people what people don't really know, like, why the show works is we could disagree on a on a plethora of shit, and then by the end, come to an agreement on it. And that's the beautiful part of no gimmicks because
Frank Dee:And and
Blak Makk:it's both of us giving our opinions.
Frank Dee:So Yeah. And we and and it's like and we've known each other for a long fucking time. So Yes. That's, you know, that's kinda how it goes. Like, I the first Star Wars movie I ever went to was with this dude and his wife and my wife.
Frank Dee:We went to The Last Jedi. You know what I mean? Yep. And we walked out. Like, what the fuck did we just watch?
Blak Makk:So Like, what the fuck was that? Yeah.
Frank Dee:So yeah. I just want to be like I said, I just wanted to come out here and and clear the air on that shit and be like, you know, DFP and family. You know what I'm saying?
Blak Makk:No doubt. No doubt, my guy. Appreciate it. I appreciate it. But let's get let's get to the let's get to the the the the talk.
Blak Makk:So last week, we did we did talk about, not really so much Anakin Skywalker, but how his power, his his his search for power and how that ended up being. And we had a conversation before the show that I wanna dive into too with with Skywalker slash Vader. Did he really see himself as evil? Was he evil, or or was it was it something in him still clinging to him? Because last week, I said he operated off range, which to me, I feel like it was it was it was kinda like stone cold.
Blak Makk:It's like he's Anakin Skywalker, but he's dialed up to a 1,000 on on anger.
Frank Dee:Mhmm.
Blak Makk:So was he was he really evil? Did he did he consider himself evil, or was he just angry?
Frank Dee:You know, I I honestly believe that you know? And this and this comes off of the the heels of the the Dave Filoni interviewed every day where he was talking to, Hedlund. Right. And he brought up that, you know, he doesn't believe that Anakin ever thought he was actually evil. And I I I I kinda agree with that a little bit somewhat, and the reason why is this.
Frank Dee:Okay? Now if you go back to and I brought this up last week about the power part. And just because you want power and create power, it doesn't mean that you necessarily you're evil. It just means you're greedy. You know what I mean?
Frank Dee:Right. So he wanted the the universe to be what he wanted to be. That's what he said. We can you know, I I'm I'm more powerful than a chance where I can overthrow him. And together, you and I can rule the galaxy, make things the way we want them to be.
Frank Dee:That's what he was saying. But in doing that, look at all the acts that came before that, which you could say, okay. That's evil shit because he killed the young ones. All the Jedi were pretty much massacred by the the the clone troopers. Palpatine put his, you know, plan into place.
Frank Dee:So then you get to return of the Jedi when he when Luke Skywalker's there and Luke is selling him, he still feels that, you know, he he sends the good inside of him, let go of his hate. It's too late for me, son. Right. You know? Basically, you I can't be redeemed.
Frank Dee:He says, you know, Obi Wan won't start as you do. You don't know the power of the dark side. I must obey my master. So my thing is this. You're only evil if you do evil acts, so you don't take any accountability for it.
Frank Dee:I think Andikin took accountability for his shit. He obviously took accountability for his evil acts and returned to Jedi when he told Luke, I can't this is too late for me. Like, basically, he felt he could not be redeemed. Like, I cannot I cannot go against this guy.
Blak Makk:Right. He Right.
Frank Dee:Feared he feared Palpatine. So was he truly evil? Is it I I honestly you know? And I'm and I'm listening to dark lord, the rise of Darth Vader, the novelization. I'm listening to that and just his thoughts, the the the thought process of Darth Vader and what he was saying.
Frank Dee:And his whole process was if only they had listened to me. It didn't have to be this way. If only the Jedi would listen to me. If only Obi Wan would listen to me. If only Padme would listen to me.
Frank Dee:They would still be here with me right now. I wouldn't be here stuck in this damn suit. That's his feelings.
Blak Makk:Right. Right. Which is why I said he kinda operated off rage. It was it was there was a lot of
Frank Dee:anger. Emotion.
Blak Makk:Right. And that goes back that goes back too to what I was saying about, like, how his rise was. He from from me, the way I interpret it, his rise was the he was a kid that got plucked from his mom. Right. Although he kinda volunteered for that, he was thankful that he wasn't in slavery anymore, so he felt like he kinda owed these people.
Blak Makk:Then the one person he got attached to got killed in the battle, so they stuck him with another guy who really was just following the order. Right? He didn't really have, like, Anakin's best interest for the individual. He had the best interest for the force and not him. And Anakin coming up the way he did, I felt like a lot of the things that he did while he was under the Jedi order was for the fact that he just wanted the validation.
Blak Makk:He wanted the approval. And I think being a Jedi master was his ultimate validation. Well, I'm here. I made him. I brought
Frank Dee:He's the chosen. Right. Right. He should be going. So let me ask you this question real quick and and go to delve into wrestling, and then we'll go back into Star Wars because it it kinda goes so and so.
Frank Dee:Okay. Was Hulk Hogan would Hogan turn heel? Was Hulk Hogan really a backup, or was he was his heel turn justified?
Blak Makk:Oh, that's a hard question to answer. So I'll I'll answer it by saying, I believe it was justified. Because if you if you look at if you look at for where he was during that period of time, he was doing everything a hero should do. Right?
Frank Dee:Right.
Blak Makk:He was running in, making a save. He was winning the the matches. He had the opposition that he was he was beating. Right? But he wasn't getting the validation from the audience.
Blak Makk:The audience got tired of the act. So at that point in time, by the time he he made his mind up that he was actually gonna be a heel, it was justified. You guys didn't give me the validation. I've worked my butt off years years years for you people only to be met with booze for for for being the hero in the situation. So why be
Frank Dee:the hero? Every great hero eventually becomes a villain.
Blak Makk:Live long enough to yourself, become the villain.
Frank Dee:Correct. Yep. And that's exactly what happened with with with Hulk Hogan. It was okay. I came out here for what did you say at the bachelor's beach?
Frank Dee:For 2 years, brother. For 2 years, I held my head high. I did everything for the charities. I did everything for the kids. And the reception I got when I came out here, you fans can stick it, brother.
Frank Dee:Yep. That's that's that was justified. So it wasn't really and that's why people were cheering that because it was what it is. So when you go when you you take it back to Skywalker, same thing. Anakin did so much for the Jedi Council, did so much for the cause, did so much for the republic, went into many wars with the clone troopers for the republic.
Frank Dee:Right. Never, as you mentioned, never to really get the validation that he needed. Mace Winding hated Anakin Skywalker. Exactly. Obi wan thought he was useless in in in the beginning.
Frank Dee:Yep. So you put all this into perspective. Was Anakin truly evil? It's, it's I think it's 5050, man. It's half and half.
Frank Dee:I think he's evil. I I think he did he did evil shit. Yes. Vader was evil. They they they at this point, when he when he became so I look at it like this because you can't you I don't look at him as a saint.
Frank Dee:There's Anakin, and then there is Vader. Okay? The moment that the moment Sidious says, henceforth, you shall be known as Darth Vader, Anakin Skywalker ceased to exist. It was a little bit of Anakin Skywalker still there, and that's why he lost to Obi Wan. It was the cockiness of Anakin Skywalker.
Frank Dee:It's the reason why he failed on Lisfar and lost his limbs. When he lost his limbs, and it was full circle after that. When he be when he got the suit on, that's it. That that's that is evil Darth Vader right there. That that that that dude.
Frank Dee:You know what I mean? Right. I think there may have been still a little bit of hope to save him a little bit before that happened, but after that, it was done.
Blak Makk:So let me ask you this question. Once once Mustafar happens and he loses, does he cling to the dark side in the hopes because he was fucked up. In the hopes that that it could heal him. Or he did all of this. Right?
Blak Makk:He loses at Mustafar and look. Max, let him know I'm making a
Frank Dee:Well, I I appreciate that. Please Go to the dark side. Go to the dark side. It's better over there. It's a lot hotter.
Blak Makk:It's okay. Good. But Mustafar happens. Right? He loses Right.
Blak Makk:He loses to, he loses to Obi Wan. Right. Is there is there any part of Anakin Skywalker that says, I can't go back to the Jedi because of what I did with Obi Wan? So I have to go I have to be a Sith.
Frank Dee:He no. He can go back to the Jedi because there are no more Jedi. That's it. The council is destroyed. He couldn't go back there.
Frank Dee:He already pledged his allegiance to Palpatine. Palpatine basically would've would've killed him. Oh, yeah. He did. That's what happened.
Frank Dee:So and the thing about it too was so the inhibitor ships inside the clones, they had it it basically was, you know, order 66, take out the the, you know, the Jetta. But Right. It was also they also had a code for Anakin as well. If if Anakin had not did what he did and this is doing this is, doing the assault on the Jedi temple, what they call it nightfall of Vader. If he had not gone through with his Mhmm.
Frank Dee:Going through what they were gonna do, cities would have turned their phones on him. That's why people wonder, well, why does Anakin escape? Or why why didn't they you don't get any of them? Because it wasn't he wasn't part of that. City has always had the intention of Anakin being his apprentice.
Frank Dee:So it was never gonna happen. So I guess so, like, the whole point of it is, was he truly was Anakin truly evil? I think Anakin was corrupted by the dark side. I think he had a lot of attachment issues, obviously, with Padme, with Obi Wan. Yes.
Frank Dee:He, you know, he lost quite Qui Gon in the beginning very early on, being manipulated by Right. Palpatine. Just and and Palpatine is is promising you all these different things. You know? So it's it's like I said before.
Frank Dee:I I I think Anakin wasn't evil. Vader was evil Because it's 2 different beings. They're not the same at all. The I mean, Anakin's still there a little bit as we saw in Obi Wan Kenobi. He's there a little bit.
Frank Dee:But the as soon as Anakin tries to come out Right. Takes over. And that's just how it's how it goes. So it's kind of like Anakin wasn't evil. Vader was definitely evil.
Frank Dee:Vader was evil until Vader started getting attachment issue again because he found out he has a son. And for the moment he found out he had a son, it was downhill for the empire at that point because Vader was conflicted. Vader would now now to say this, Vader never would've turned to the light side. He Vader was Vader never would've turned to the light side. Vader was gonna just say, me and Luke can rule the galaxy together as father and son, but under the guise of the dark side, under the guise of the Sith, he wanted to turn Luke into a Sith, not say, okay.
Frank Dee:Let's go back to the light side.
Blak Makk:Right.
Frank Dee:That wasn't gonna happen. He wanted him to be a Sith like him. That's why he says, you have a twin sister.
Blak Makk:I know what
Frank Dee:All we want was wise to use. Correct. Obi Wan was wise to you to to hide her from me. If you would not turn to the dark side, then perhaps she will. So that's how it went down.
Frank Dee:And then when Vader, you know, ends up dying, who comes to his rescue to take him to the to show him the, you know, the ways to become a force? Ghost. Obi Wan Kenobi. Because he's a and he's apologized for everything he did. And Obi Wan is kinda like, dude, shut the fuck up and listen to me.
Frank Dee:I'm about to tell you how to become one with the force, and that's how he shows up at the end of returning to Jed.
Blak Makk:Good shit. Good shit. Very good shit. Yeah. I I I had this thing to where I was just like, it's all in and this again, it's got back to what I said last week.
Blak Makk:It's all in who is who who's evil is in their view. And maybe Vader had had not Vader, but Anakin was actually just clinging on to whatever he could, you know what I mean, to survive. Because it wasn't easy being Vader. It really wasn't. A lesser a lesser person a lesser user of the force probably wouldn't have survived it.
Frank Dee:He asked Obi wan, and they muted this in the movie. But when Obi wan first, you know, brings him down, he's begging Obi Wan to help him, but they needed that part in the movie. But he's begging him. He says you know, he's saying help help me, master, is what he's saying. Like, that one little last thing
Blak Makk:And he can't.
Frank Dee:Of help him. And Obi Wan won't help him. And that's when he says, I hate you. That way there, he went full. It was like he went full at that point.
Frank Dee:But as you you continue on watching Obi Wan Kenobi, he's still and still early on as Vader, he's still very much conflicted because his fixation is Obi Wan, Obi Wan, Obi Wan. No different than Darth Maul. What led to Maul's defeat is Yep. His fascination and his his obsession with Kenobi. That's what that's what it was.
Frank Dee:Yep. So and and tried to warn him about about and and order 66. So can they listen?
Blak Makk:No. He didn't. No. He did not. They, and that's the thing about that's the thing about a Jedi, man.
Blak Makk:It's like it's like yeah. And because the Jedi I can't even believe I'm about to say this shit. The Jedi aren't exactly the perfect order either. You know what I mean?
Frank Dee:Like What? They they are not.
Blak Makk:They are not. They they have flaws. They have flaws. And the biggest flaw was with Anakin Skywalker and how they handled him, which Yeah. It makes it makes him being Vader justified.
Blak Makk:It really does. But that's the beauty of the story because it makes it doesn't make him evil. It makes the whole thing tragic that you didn't listen to this guy, and his life wasn't exactly easy. And you put the force ahead of him. You know what I mean?
Blak Makk:When saw the truth, but he died. Yeah. And that sucks. That sucks.
Frank Dee:Yeah.
Blak Makk:It does. But speaking of mishandling, let's go into wrestling because I wanna I wanna I wanna compare and contrast. Last night, I was watching Raw, and I saw Bron Breakker and how the WWE is handling Braun Breaker. Very slowly, very carefully, they are inserting him, and they're letting him rise on his own. Right?
Blak Makk:The crowd is eating this shit up. They love Bron Breakker. I wanna compare this to AEW and how they handled Wardlow Because these these are 2 very similar people. Mhmm. But you see how the WWE handles Bron Breakker, and you've seen how AEW handles Wardlow.
Frank Dee:Mhmm.
Blak Makk:What is the biggest difference? Because they are very similar. What is the biggest difference between between the 2?
Frank Dee:The the biggest difference is is that you actually have the machine behind Bron Breakker. You have people there that essentially know what they're doing and how to build talent. That's the one thing that WWE, WWF has always been able to do was build talent. When WCW was in the war with them and, basically, WCW had acquired a lot of their, you know, older talents, like the Marshall Mans, like the Hulk Hogans, the Scott Hall, Kevin Ashes. But WWF essentially had to start from scratch and build up new stars.
Frank Dee:You know, they had to bring in, you know, the ringmasters and and and the mankind, you know, and the gold dust and all these different these different characters to to, you know, rebuild their organization. And then, you know, the rain master would become Stone Cold Steve Austin. They're one of the biggest stars, if not the biggest star of the ad, Sarah. Then you had another youngster named Rocky Maivia there. You had Hunter Hearst Houndsley.
Frank Dee:You had, you know, Shawn Michaels, Bretman, Hart, all these different, you know, that were in the federation, the Undertaker, Kane, Kane Shamrock, New Age Outlaws, you know, The Godfather, Mark Henry, Deelo Brown for Root, Flash Funk. You know? You had all these of the godwins. You know? Everybody on that roster, you they were basically rebuilding the town pool, and they were handling it.
Frank Dee:They were they everybody has something to do. Right. You look at the the thing here with with Brian Breaker and, Wardlow, the comparisons here is that Brian Breaker hasn't been in the business as long as as Wardlow, as far as being on television. Wardle's been on TV longer than Bron Brickell. Bron Brickell caught on, and Bron Brickell is just he just has it, man.
Frank Dee:I mean, the guy is is Rick Steiner's son. So he has he he has the big Papa Pump is his uncle. So you already he already has that going from here. He has a certain reputation that he has. Like, the guy was, you know, football player before this.
Frank Dee:So he has a he has a certain reputation that he wants to, you know, to keep on here and also defend the family name.
Blak Makk:Right.
Frank Dee:And the and the signers are gonna do everything they they can to be at the top. You know what I'm saying? So when you look at him, you look at Wardlow, like, what happened? Wardlow, Wardlow's, I I I've always said that Wardlow had something with that Powerball Symphony. That thing was over.
Frank Dee:And Wardlow, I looked at him like, this guy could be the next Batista. That's how over he was. And I and I just and I thought that I thought the presentation was always wrong. I thought the music was wrong. I thought he shoulda had pyrotechnics when he was coming in because he I mean, he had a aura about him when they were when he would walk from the back to the ring.
Frank Dee:That's okay. That's Goldberg shit. That works. You know what I'm saying? And it and it builds the anticipation that, okay.
Frank Dee:Somebody is about to get burped right now when this dude comes out.
Blak Makk:Bad. Yeah.
Frank Dee:You know what I'm saying? So that's that's what they had. And then I don't know what happened, but it just it fell apart. And they had no plans. Now they got him in his in his fashion that's completely useless because Adam Cole got injured.
Frank Dee:There's just there's nothing nothing there. There's no no subs there's nothing there to to sink your teeth into when it comes to Warlord, but then you look over here on the other side, they're building Bron Breakker just slowly as you put the building monster. Right. And and and tense. You know what I'm saying?
Frank Dee:My only thing with him and I might be wrong. This is the old school fan in me. I'd like to see him drop the breaker name and become Braun Snyder. That's what I would like.
Blak Makk:I would wanna see that too, honestly. Although I get it. I get it. They built that up in the next, and they're actually doing a very good job of continuing shit from NXT now to to the main roster. Case point, Ilya Dragunov.
Blak Makk:He's also one that came from NXT, and he's flourishing right now. So they're they're they're doing a lot of little things that make a lot of sense in for in terms of developing guys, building them up, and then letting them be stars. Yes. As opposed to the past where an NXT star was it was a death knell if they got called up to the main roster. You're starting to see a lot of these guys involved, and and that's good.
Blak Makk:You want you wanna see that. But in in terms of of Wardlow, I don't know, man. It's like they they they build them. They build them, and then nothing. And the last the last time, like, I really knew, like, okay.
Blak Makk:This might be it for Wardlow is when he when he, went up against Samoa Joe. And I was like
Frank Dee:I told you that too. I said I said that's a mistake. I said that the problem with this match is, I said somebody has to lose, and it's not gonna be Samoa Joe.
Blak Makk:Yep. That's He has not been the same since, man. He has not been
Frank Dee:the same since. If you look at that match and I said to him when we did the the review afterwards, no motivation during that match. It's like, essentially, it looked like dude had had gave up. And I'm a put this out there right now. I do believe when contract comes up, he's going to WWE.
Blak Makk:That that we'll we'll get in we'll get into that too. But, what's up, Joe Ritchie? I I I'm a firm believer that we're about to see a mass migration. But that being said, Tony Khan came out and said something surprising to me, and he he was willing to work with Ricky Starks now. And I don't know if that's because he's getting ready to leave or he wants out, but, yeah, it that his name
Frank Dee:came up. Can that and what exactly does that entail? Okay. I I I I'm willing to work with okay. So what you're saying is that I have all these toys, and I'm gonna pick this toy over here.
Frank Dee:I wanna put it with this one for a couple of weeks, and I'm gonna put them back on the shelf because that's what happens. Right. It's a starting starting stop situation here, and it's like, okay, bro. Let let let's let's let me give y'all all here a history of this in public. Okay?
Frank Dee:This is the way it goes. When when when when I'm about to rap to you. Back in the day, when they did thunder, k, Eric didn't want Eric Bischoff did not want to do thunder. They he knew they didn't have the the the staffing for it. They didn't wanna do it.
Frank Dee:But his vision for Thunder was it was going to be Bret Hart on Thunder having 2 pretty much separate rosters. You have NW Natural, and then you have WCW would have Thunder. Right. I just don't, for the life of me, I don't understand why AEW hasn't caught on to this by having dynamite roster and then collision. 2 separate things.
Frank Dee:And that's why people initially, in the beginning, people liked collision because it was different than dynamite because it was 2 separate things. And that's why punk was saying, this is my show because they were doing things differently. If you wanna do all the hokey BS, you go on Wednesday.
Blak Makk:Go to dine on.
Frank Dee:Yeah. Saturday, we don't do that here. And I don't understand for life. Okay. Why is it that you guys haven't caught on to the fact that you have all this talent?
Frank Dee:You could be doing all this different shit on these shows. Right. You know what I'm saying? Right. You have all these titles, all these champions, or whatever.
Frank Dee:Why are you not having certain things happening on dynamite and then certain things happening on collision?
Blak Makk:You could totally get away with that, and you could build people on collision too.
Frank Dee:Right. And I'm so build
Blak Makk:build talent on collision.
Frank Dee:You actually you actually can. You could be doing you could be doing big time stories on collision. You're Good. And and that's the and the people don't understand this either. And that's once again, I'm about to give you a
Blak Makk:history lesson.
Frank Dee:The the thing is this. Before there was Monday Nitro, WCW Saturday night was the primary show for WCW. So that meant that all the major stuff that was happening in WCW happened on WCW Saturday night. WCW Worldwide was the other show they did. Now it's basically the syndicated show.
Frank Dee:But WCW Saturday night was always 605 to 605 Eastern 305 Pacific. That was the main show until it became a b show when Night Show came along. Same to what you're bringing. Shows. Oh, hell yeah.
Frank Dee:We all did. And the main show was what was the main shows for the WWF Before Raw, Prime Time Wrestling, Superstars Wrestling, Wrestling Challenge. Saturday night's main event when they would when they would do it. That main event on Fridays when they would do it. Those were the main shows.
Frank Dee:So and what happened was is that things didn't go the way they wanted to with thunder, and it started off thunder strong. You had appearances on there by BMWO in early early days. I mean, Hogan would be on there, whatever. And then it slowly started becoming an afterthought, especially when they introduced SmackDown on UPN, which did change the game. So to say that, you could've been building a monster like Wardable on collision.
Frank Dee:You can build this guy to the point where, okay, he is on the challenge now. There's to be no reason why this company has been around as long as it has with a guy that looks like Wardlow, that's an athlete like Wardlow, that's charisma like Wardlow, that can cut a promo like Wardlow, not been royalty free, Shane. Agreed. That right there to me is a travesty of justice. I'm not gonna say
Blak Makk:Agreed. There's a couple. There's a couple names in there that that I I say you could have built them on you could have built them on collision. There's a there's a lot. There's a lot you could do on collision.
Blak Makk:And you could have a you could have a a pay per view attached to collision and not just dynamite.
Frank Dee:And I
Blak Makk:think Kinda like kinda like you did back in the day with with with WWE. SmackDown had their own pay per views.
Frank Dee:And I think, honestly, if it if it's just me personally, I honestly think that that Rampage Rampage should be kinda like a a recap show. That should be a clip show.
Blak Makk:You know what I would do? I would I would make Rampage
Frank Dee:a Ring of Honor show. Well, they can't because that's the problem. But Warner Brothers isn't paying for ring of honor. They're paying for AEW.
Blak Makk:Right.
Frank Dee:Now I see what your point is, but I just think that you could do dynamite, give a break on Rampage, build everything up to tomorrow night on collision on TNT, yadayadayada yada. That's what I would do.
Blak Makk:But for for AW style, Rampage to me is actually a good show for for AW style because AEW throws a lot of shit at you in the course of 2 hours. They do. If you do it in the course of an hour, Rampage is actually not that bad, of a show. And they often do better they often do better development on Rampage for some reason. Some of the stories are better on Rampage than they are on dynamite.
Blak Makk:It's weird how they operate. But but I sometimes, I like Rampage better than dynamite. And for the longest time, when collision first started, collision was the best show they had. And Yeah. It was.
Blak Makk:They got away from that.
Frank Dee:Yeah. And and they got away from, honestly, they got away from what made Rampage special. Look. They got away from what made AEW special to begin with.
Blak Makk:I would agree with that.
Frank Dee:And once they get back to once they get back to that, then they'll start doing something. Congratulations to AEW, though. They were able to sustain their audience this past week.
Blak Makk:They did.
Frank Dee:And and and they put on a show. I mean, was it so good? Yeah. People you know? Whatever.
Frank Dee:People are not saying it was a good show. But it was it was a business. Yeah. It had exactly. But the the most important part was is they were able to maintain instead of their audience decreasing throughout the show, they were able to maintain their audience, especially during the second hour, second half of that show.
Frank Dee:They were able to to to pull that off. So so kudos kudos to them for that.
Blak Makk:Right. Somebody said something interesting, and I I'm gonna have to agree with it. Since they've started to let the show breathe a little bit and they've cut the ring time a little bit. It it's still it's still about 50% wrestling, but they've they've it they've leveled it out with promo work. Since they've done that, it's actually been a better show.
Blak Makk:And if they if they continue to do that, Mhmm. If they continue to to keep it level, let the shows breathe a little bit, not throw so much at you in the course of 2 hours. Because if something significant happens, you have about a minute. You have about a minute to digest it before they move on. Lately, they've they've been letting it happen.
Blak Makk:Go to break. Come back from break. Talk about it. Go to the next matchup. They continue to do stuff like that.
Blak Makk:I'll be on board with it. I'll I'll give it a chance.
Frank Dee:One thing that I would I would do if I were there in the creative and and you say, okay. What do you wanna do tonight? Well, what I wanna do is I wanna take some of these guys, and I just I wanna repackage them into something else, but I want to play vignettes. I wanna go record some vignettes to introduce Absolutely. This this person is coming in.
Frank Dee:Instead of just putting somebody on TV that nobody knows or putting somebody on TV that you do know, but there's no backstory of where they've gone, where they've been, whatever. Let's do vignettes. Let's do, like, the old school vignettes they used to do in the WWF when they used to bring people in. You know? Dusty Rhodes had a bunch of segments where he was the the, you know, the plumber.
Frank Dee:And, you know, he was the the meat, you know, the the the, working at the meat the meat shop. Now all of a sudden, dumb shit they were doing. You you could, you know, you you could but he was just showing he was a common man.
Blak Makk:You know? Right.
Frank Dee:So you you you do all that, and you you make a start. And people are familiarized when a guy comes in. Like, oh, I can't wait to see what this guy does. I can't wait to see him debut. You know what I mean?
Frank Dee:Right.
Blak Makk:Yeah. But who would you who would you rebrand first?
Frank Dee:Oh, say that again?
Blak Makk:Who knee who would you rebrand first? Who who absolutely needs to be rebranded and and pushed? Wardlow.
Frank Dee:He's talking talking about us.
Blak Makk:You would go Wardlow first?
Frank Dee:I would go Wardlow because Wardlow he war listen. I'm a tell you why I go I would go Wardlow first. I would go Wardlow first and give this guy a push because I would be fearful that he is going to jump to the WWE because he looks like a WWE guy anyway. Alright? And that is very true.
Frank Dee:In in the land of of the wrestlers that they have. Okay. I'm I'm a just like this. Okay? Why is it in this faction that they're pushing, which is the NWO, you know, 2 point o?
Frank Dee:Right. Why why is in this faction do you not have a heavy, like, Wardlow? Very good question. You have you have you have Jack Perry out there. Nothing against Jack Perry.
Frank Dee:Don't know Jack Perry. I'm I'm looking at this as a as a fan critic. Okay? You're small. You're not believable at all.
Frank Dee:I've seen believability with Ray Mysterio. He go out there and kick ass, but he had he you can believe that he could do it. Right. I don't believe in Jack Perry. All I see is a guy who grew a beard, and he's all of a sudden not supposed to be this ultra badass, but then on the video with Sean Pung, it showed that you are not.
Frank Dee:That's the problem. If they had not released that footage, it would be a different story because he was still trying to figure out what the character was before that incident happened in Wembley. And I said right there, I said, okay. Jack Perry, he should be Hollywood Jack Perry. You should people already think already think you because your dad was Luke Perry.
Frank Dee:You're okay. You need to embrace that part. You should be coming out with n and j. That's what you should be doing. You should be this arrogant, prick asshole, but you wait.
Frank Dee:If we were against the grain now, you're the scapegoat and all this okay. That may have worked for the small minority New Japan fan base, but nobody's digging in here. And it shows.
Blak Makk:Mhmm.
Frank Dee:It shows by lack of reactions other than, oh, Centimeters Punk. Okay. Let me ask you a question. If if you're out there and you're trying to get over, but you're being drowned out by Centimeters Punk chants, you ain't over. That's just basically that's not that's not heat.
Frank Dee:They're just getting at you because you're the person that got bitched up by. So where is my heat? You're not booing me to boogie.
Blak Makk:Get it. You can't. There's ways you can you can
Frank Dee:get it. Buoying me
Blak Makk:to boo
Frank Dee:me? Are you buoying me because, oh, I got you with. That's what you guys like. That's not your money. But he ain't but he but there's no money because he's not here.
Frank Dee:Right. You know? I mean, like, he's gonna get that
Blak Makk:he's gonna get that regardless, though, because a lot of fans do feel like Jack Perry
Frank Dee:probably gets 2 o'clock. Yeah. I get that. But but at the same time, it's like look. Okay.
Frank Dee:Look what they did at the pay per view. Alright? Mhmm. When they set him on fire. And then he comes out later on with no no not selling whatsoever.
Frank Dee:Right? And wins the fucking match.
Blak Makk:Yeah. That was wild. That was wild.
Frank Dee:Now that's stupid, but then I got a guy here named Cain who was a brother of the undertaker who was set on fire, and he's all disfigured and wearing a suit and shit and has his face covered up because he got burns. Right? Yep. But this dude literally probably 5 minutes before this, 5 or 10 minutes before this, he is coming out with the gel, the the the the retard gel on him and shit. So you already know something's about to happen.
Frank Dee:Get set on fire. Then comes back and wait for 1, not selling it, and then he's out there. Then he's out there on the show on Wednesday not selling it again. But you just gotta set on fire. No burns.
Frank Dee:Nothing whatsoever. Motherfucker, you should be looking like Freddy Krueger. Fact. But but but nothing. You know, that's the whole point.
Frank Dee:You know, Kylie. The the the the big pop of the week. Oh, shut up, bitches.
Blak Makk:I'm not gonna lie, pop for the week.
Frank Dee:Groundbreaking to me. That's excellent shit. Like, my god.
Blak Makk:I'm sorry for that.
Frank Dee:That's why you said, but it's like, okay. Yeah. But it's like, okay. But, dude, you can barely tell the fucking promo. True.
Frank Dee:So congratulations.
Blak Makk:True. But that that I popped for because I was like, oh, that was that was funny. Because even they even they didn't know that was coming. So but, yeah, I agree with what you're saying, but you would go Wardlow first.
Frank Dee:I would go Wardlow first. And and quite honestly, let me let me tell you something. I don't have a real issue with the young bucks like everybody else. I just don't believe. That's the problem.
Frank Dee:You can't tell production, and I and I get now why they did it. But you can't tell production to cut the music. You know? We're over budget. When you look back there and see that Tony Khan is sitting there, he's running production.
Frank Dee:He's at the gorilla. How does that make sense?
Blak Makk:It don't, but I in the heat of it in the heat of it
Frank Dee:Come on, man.
Blak Makk:I didn't I didn't find a problem with it in the heat of it.
Frank Dee:Come on, dude. Really? They they
Blak Makk:I did it.
Frank Dee:These these these EVPs are telling you and then what didn't the Jack Perry bring him out Tony Khan out there or some shit? He did. He did. Why is Jack Perry, of all people, putting his hands on the owner? That's like, you know, Santino Morella putting his hands on mister McMahon.
Frank Dee:Ain't gonna happen. Not gonna happen.
Blak Makk:I mean, in a grand scheme.
Frank Dee:I'm come on, dude. It's like it's like once again, I go back to another history lesson in public. I go back to this. It goes back to the NWO. You Bischoff wasn't revealing himself.
Frank Dee:This shit was going on, but guess who was behind it. Right? Davionis.
Blak Makk:Bischoff. Yeah. But Oh, yeah.
Frank Dee:Yeah. Yeah.
Blak Makk:Davionis. But what I'm but so if you're going with Wardlow, I would say put them in the elite.
Frank Dee:Just put them in there. They need some out.
Blak Makk:They have some
Frank Dee:kicked out, Dealey? Jack Perry. It could it it could be Jack Perry, but then it could be it could be Okada. Because why is Okada in this group? Your Okada, they don't wanna boo Okada.
Blak Makk:Oh, yeah. Or Okada too. Okada too.
Frank Dee:And if you wanna do something with with Perry, okay. Well, fine. You wanna you wanna make Perry be something. What's Warrville doing right now? He's being the lackey again.
Frank Dee:Right? Okay. Well, fuck it. Put him with Jack Harada.
Blak Makk:Dude, that's
Frank Dee:He's Jack Harada. Big stars. I understand that. And that's the whole premise. That's that's the whole point because they have no direction for them.
Frank Dee:That's that's it. You're okay. Look. Oh my god. Who is the biggest one on the roster right now that has not done shit since they turned them?
Frank Dee:He's one of them. But I got something somebody even worse than that. Luchasaurus.
Blak Makk:Oh, yeah. Yeah. And I complained the the chief reason I complained that him swerve were were the match together was because they really haven't done anything with with luchasaurus.
Frank Dee:He's just standing there with.
Blak Makk:Yep. They haven't really done anything with him. And even when they even when so they they had the story with luchasaurus, and they had him, like, they they got they got him over and and, essentially, against Christian when he had the TNT title. And they cut that they cut it off. Like, for what?
Frank Dee:Yeah. And and and the question is this. Now that MJF is back, well, what's Christian going to do? Because, essentially, you've been doing MJF's act. So what Essentially.
Frank Dee:Yep. So so what are you gonna do? Has changed. Let's see. Needs to change his ring, entrance music, and his ring, his and and his in ring wrestling where he power people.
Frank Dee:Yeah. For some reason, just. Thank you. That's what I'm saying. The interest music for me was a big problem because when Goldberg would come out, you know it's Goldberg.
Frank Dee:That music hits Right. The power of attorney throws off. You know who it is. Batista would come out. You you know who it was.
Frank Dee:I thought the same thing for War Will. When War Will come out with that that terrible music, the presentation was all wrong. It should have been some badass music. It should have been power techniques going over the place. The dude's matches in those and and what they were doing, his matches should have been very short.
Frank Dee:Very short matches. Power mom, Stephanie, center of crown on me. That's how Goldberg
Blak Makk:got had it. They didn't get over that.
Frank Dee:Yeah. But it also it also proved, like he just said, it also proved that he could work because he can't work, because he had that master MJF. It was a built in story there, of this shit. And I'm thinking to myself too. It's like kinda where you go with MJF here.
Frank Dee:Because it's not the same MJF that it was. It's now a hybrid version of of MJF that we're gonna see. We're gonna see the we're gonna see MJF being the the badass, but it's more of a hybrid version. He's he's evolved now. You know?
Frank Dee:And it's kinda like starting from base. They realize that what they were doing before wasn't working. So that's gonna be MJF going back to basically, back to what he should be. And it sounded like, once again, Wardwell would be the guy I would push. I would push in there.
Frank Dee:And, yeah, the elite, yes, I would I would drop Okada is what I would do. I agree with that. Okada Okada should not be in this group. Christian is number 1 here in AWM. He's not here.
Frank Dee:He's doing the heel face. The only can work for so long because He's gotta pick a side. He's gotta pick a side.
Blak Makk:He's gotta pick a side.
Frank Dee:And Christian Christian Christian's the only number one healed by default. He's the only number one healed by default. He's the only one who's been there. Because name is Jeff. Is that Yep.
Frank Dee:That's that's the thing. It he was Not to
Blak Makk:say not to say Christian's doing bad work, but he don't do
Frank Dee:great work. Bad I don't think Christian's doing bad work. He's doing it's entertaining shit, but it's like it doesn't feel organic because you never saw Christian acting like this in any time in his career.
Blak Makk:When did you say this? Being said, though, I I appreciate the shit out of
Frank Dee:it. I saw, like, Nick Wayne and his mom out there. I don't me, though.
Blak Makk:I I don't I don't mind that if if and you're right with with Christian. I I don't mind that because he is such a heat magnet. Like, that, I'm willing to be like, alright. Well, if you get rid of the rest of them and just be what you are, Christian, like, you're still good. I I understand the whole patriarchy shit, but for me, you're right.
Blak Makk:He hasn't done this work in his career, this type of work in his career, but I appreciate that he's given this to us So at this point in
Frank Dee:his career. So let let me ask you a question. Because they've been they've been in this faction for a while, this this Christian Cage and and and everybody. Can you say that since Nick Wayne has been with Christian Cage, that he's more of a more over than he was before that? I don't think so.
Blak Makk:No. No. The elite
Frank Dee:are what is it? What did he say?
Blak Makk:He said the elite are are ratings killers. They are nonwatchable ratings killers.
Frank Dee:I we we agree. He's a very smart man.
Blak Makk:I I'm gonna agree with that, but I I do wonder I do wonder if if this story doesn't pan out for the for the elite. Like, they won a double or nothing. But what did that get them in the in the in the aftermath?
Frank Dee:I don't think it got them anything. I mean, what Right. Do you what do you get when you don't have any, like, what are we fighting for here? The and I once again, a history lesson in public. It's just some sound effects.
Frank Dee:I go back in time. Look. Here's the thing. What was the what was the the the motive of the NWO was to destroy WCW, to take over WCW. Okay?
Blak Makk:Right.
Frank Dee:And they had reason. Paul and Nash had previously been there. The Diamond Sud, Oz, Vinny Vegas. Yep. Previously been there.
Frank Dee:Coming back, we're gonna destroy this place. What was reason? You people don't appreciate me. I'm a turn a hill on you. I'm a help I'm a help you.
Frank Dee:We're all WWF guys anyways. What is the motivation here of the of AEW in in the elite? Oh, we're gonna take it back to what it used to be. What the fuck are you talking about?
Blak Makk:I I guess they wanna
Frank Dee:what it used to be when you got I guess
Blak Makk:they wanna go back to 20 2019. Right? Okay. Where's Roy Rhodes? He's not there.
Frank Dee:That's a big part of it. Where is Omega?
Blak Makk:He is not there.
Frank Dee:Correct. So that's a those are big parts of it. You can't take AEW back to how it used to be Right. Because it there's different time now,
Blak Makk:man.
Frank Dee:It it just the the the players aren't there anymore. So that's why I'm I don't understand this this whole we're gonna this hostile takeover. I don't understand that. This you know, it should not this is it it should not have been anarchy in the arena, bro. It should have been blood guts.
Frank Dee:It should have been.
Blak Makk:It should have been. It should have been.
Frank Dee:Well, you have high stakes like this? You have high stakes like this back in the day? History lesson. We want to sell some shit in WCW, whether it be the forestmen, whoever. War games.
Frank Dee:Yep. We wanna sell some shit between the NW and WCW? War games.
Blak Makk:War games. Yep.
Frank Dee:Okay?
Blak Makk:I agree.
Frank Dee:The bloodline bloodline versus all these different dudes. What was it 2 years ago? War games. Same exact turn. Remember?
Frank Dee:Turn and Yep. Turned on on on Kevin Owens. Happened in survivor series war games.
Blak Makk:Yep.
Frank Dee:That's the difference between the two shows. The WWE build something. We know we're building to something right now with the bloodline. The anticipation is rising. We're building to something here.
Blak Makk:Right.
Frank Dee:We know what we're building to. We're building to the civil war between the two sides here.
Blak Makk:Right.
Frank Dee:We're building to this. You know, in in anticipation, we don't have that with the elite here because you already know the players, the scapegoat, the young bucks, Okada. You got you have one guy in that entire faction who actually is over, and people don't wanna boo him. And then you guys give it to you guys that that are not over. Yep.
Frank Dee:That's not what what is a what about this group right now that says that we are the elite? Nothing. Nothing. That's the whole point.
Blak Makk:Nothing at all.
Frank Dee:If you have to say, okay. What's the elite? You know what the elite was? The elite was the young bucks, Cody Rhodes, Kenny Omega. Yep.
Frank Dee:That's the elite. That's it. Yep. Because of these because of because of these talents here. Do you put all the rest of these people here?
Frank Dee:That's just a subsection of the elite. You feel what I'm saying? That's like the NWOB team. You know what I mean? It just wasn't the same.
Frank Dee:You knew it wasn't the same anymore with NWO when NWO was was in what was it? August of 99.
Blak Makk:Right.
Frank Dee:What was the story was? The main problem in AEW is Richie Rich. Yeah? There is some story. That's the whole point I'm saying.
Frank Dee:That's the only part. Hogan didn't wanna do it. He was supposed to be singing Hogan at the last minute to turn it up. Yeah. I know the story, man.
Frank Dee:That's one of that's one of my that's one of my venues. I know the the the entire story because Bishop originally came to Hogan about turning heel a year before. And Hogan says, brother, until you walk me down my red and yellow boots, you you don't know what's talking about. I gotta I gotta pick my kids up from school. Dan Hogan sees what's happening on the TV.
Frank Dee:Because originally, yeah, Stan was gonna do it. But I was talking to my wife about this. It would never have worked with Sting. It had to be Hogan. No.
Frank Dee:No. It'd be it it never would
Blak Makk:have worked. Been a short lived.
Frank Dee:Thing happened. Absolutely. Everything that happened happened the way it did. For Cena turning to the crow sting, for Lex Luger to get that push, for Hogan to turn heel, for to come over. They had a good plan in the beginning.
Frank Dee:And by the middle of 97, that plan was starting to go a little bit. And then by 98, it was done.
Blak Makk:Yep. Agreed. Agreed. But with
Frank Dee:this story here, what's the story? There is no story. As you just said, there is no story. I don't know the story. I'm confused as hell.
Frank Dee:You're you're you're you're battling with a guy who don't fucking work there. That's the that's the story. We're gonna show the video next week on dynamite. We're gonna show the backstage footage and address the incident. Stay tuned.
Blak Makk:Now I believe I believe I believe they probably had a plan, but seeing how how crappy the reaction was to the beginning of it, they kinda tried to get away from it. Because in certain Centimeters Punk, a guy who doesn't work there anymore into a storyline, it it damaged them. And I believe the entire wrestling world let them know that this was not it. And they may have gotten deep in it, but I I'm pretty sure certain shit changed.
Frank Dee:Could be. I I just thought it was bad for the be and that and that's when they were there. Terrible. That big decline happened right after they showed that video.
Blak Makk:It was it was
Frank Dee:never I I never would have showed. Like, I still, to this day, as we do this podcast right now, I still, to this day, don't understand why they showed that video. What did your current video other than showing?
Blak Makk:It didn't it didn't serve a purpose for anything,
Frank Dee:for anything. Not.
Blak Makk:Nothing. Then you could've you could've you could've probably talked about it, and it wouldn't have been as bad. It still would've been bad, but showing the footage was that was crazy. Like, why why would you do that?
Frank Dee:You know? Okay. I'm gonna tell you like this, and and and don't crucify me for what I'm about to say here.
Blak Makk:Go ahead.
Frank Dee:I'm a tell you ward we're we're talking about Wardwell earlier and how they dropped the ball to people with Wardwell. I I remember another guy that the ball was dropped, and he has he he he was a czar. No. Supersar. And this happened in WCW.
Frank Dee:Same with Bret Hart.
Blak Makk:No. I agree. I agree with
Frank Dee:I'm not even gonna reply you to that one. Yeah. Same kind of situation. But I because, you know, Warlow is not the rest of that Bret Hart was. That's what
Blak Makk:I'm saying. Right. Right.
Frank Dee:Same type of situation. They just had no plan. Now there's been, you know, speculation. You know, Bischoff says that Bret wasn't just he wasn't the same performer he was at the Montreal, which I kinda believe that. Brett hardly pissed as fuck when he showed up on that nitro, the very first nitro he was on.
Frank Dee:You're like, you don't wanna be there. Because of Montreal. And I understand that. Yeah. Wardlow here, they have an opportunity here to to to do something and and to turn turn course here with Wardrobe.
Frank Dee:While they're not doing it, I don't know. Maybe there's a connection here with Cody Rhodes is why he does get pushed. Not sure. Not sure. But I do know one thing.
Frank Dee:Ethan Page has crossed over. Sean Spears crossed over. Jay Cargill crossed over. Cody crossed over. I I believe when you said this mass migration is about to happen over to the w Oh, it's happening.
Frank Dee:Yeah. Yeah. It's gonna happen. And a lot of these people probably say, well, I don't have a problem going to NXT just as long as I can be on the big show and make it to the to the bigger show. Right.
Frank Dee:So Now showing you.
Blak Makk:Now with that with that being said, are we gonna get to a point where either NXT or or some of WWE starts to resemble 2019 AEW? Because a lot of those guys, Ethan Page Ethan Page was kind of a later guy, but Jay Cargill was towards the beginning, but she was a manager. Cody, day 1, company guy. We might begin Arn Anderson.
Frank Dee:I heard that.
Blak Makk:As a manager for Cody in in WWE. Right? There's a possibility of Ricky Starks up and then leaving. Andrade is also a guy that that left, although he's not happy right now. So but there's a lot of people that that ended up leaving.
Blak Makk:Sean Spears doing okay. Ethan Page, impact right off the bat. You know what I'm saying? So, like, at what point are are guys gonna see this and be like, I'm I'm getting out? Because I I think I think you're starting to get to a point to where if they see enough of these guys, like Ethan Page if he's at a stand and deliver main event and and they weren't doing shit with him in AEW, Like, how much of that influences somebody's decision with the contract coming up?
Blak Makk:You know what I'm saying?
Frank Dee:I I it's all gonna come down to simply this. And and and this is what Jim Ross says, and I agree with it. It's cash and creative. That's that's 2 two things there. Okay?
Frank Dee:Yep. And what it comes down to is if and and there's probably people that genuinely love and and and adore and care about AEW. Okay? That's great. But when it comes down for me is it it's it's it's gonna come down to dollars and cents.
Frank Dee:It's gonna come down to money.
Blak Makk:Right? Right.
Frank Dee:If you wanna push me, that's fine. As long as my checks don't bounce, whatever. If that's if that's the kind of company you want. But at the end of the day, it's gonna be, okay. I've invested all this time and years into this craft and learning this art and and becoming the best I can be.
Frank Dee:Do I wanna continue to sell on the sideline, or do I wanna go to WWE? And what kind of offer can I get at WWE? What kind of money can I make over at WWE? That's gonna be the question. Or am I gonna just continue to sit here and just occupy a paycheck?
Frank Dee:I'm living okay and not doing anything. That's what it's gonna come down to. It's gonna come down to your love of the art or
Blak Makk:your love the money. And I I I do think I there's room for people who want AEW to flourish. It's just that when I when I see guys when I see guys like like an Ethan Page go go over and immediately right off the bat, they have him inserted in something, or I'm seeing somebody that actually helped build AW from the ground up, go to WWE and become their champion, and he's carrying the company right now. Like, that for me, if if I was really if I was really into the craft, that would hold a lot of influence over me.
Frank Dee:Yeah.
Blak Makk:If if if it really was if it wasn't about dollars and cents and it was more about the craft, and I'm seeing people that I used to work with over here go over there and be successful, then shit. I wanna be successful too.
Frank Dee:Mhmm.
Blak Makk:Because it ain't happening here.
Frank Dee:Yeah. I totally get that. So I guess, the future is gonna see you.
Blak Makk:Think, like yeah. You're gonna see a lot of these guys looking at and 2 names in particular I'm looking at right well, one really that I'm looking at right now, is Ricky Starks. Yes. I'm looking at Wardlow too. But Ricky and Ricky and Wardlow is like these guys and it's weird because I find myself comparing AEW to WCW a lot, but in the sense of you have all of this young talent that you're not pushing.
Blak Makk:Like, you have them you have them on the roster. You've introduced your audience to them. The audience has gravitated towards them, but you go with the star power. Yeah. I get that you need the star power, but you also need to make new stars too.
Blak Makk:And you have them on your roster.
Frank Dee:So I guess I guess Ethan Page said this tonight on NAC. He says, I could've set my ass at home for the last 2 years and collected a pay collected a check. I ain't about that. Ethan Page wants opportunity.
Blak Makk:Amen. Amen. And he said that while he was in a a AEW. And Yes. What made me like him is the fact that he was on ring of honor, and he was like, I'm gonna make ring of honor the best because I'm on it.
Blak Makk:And Yeah. That meant a lot to me. I was like, this is a guy this is a guy that you wanna invest in because this guy is actually he's here to get better, and he's here to to be a workhorse for the company. Why the fuck don't you invest in these guys? Like, please give them the opportunity.
Blak Makk:Guys like Ricky Starks. Like, the guy the guy had so much potential, and it's kinda like you're wasting it away. Girls too. Ladies too. Like, you have you have people like Soraya that you're not put you're now putting into a storyline, but not even Soraya.
Blak Makk:You have people like Kiera Hogan that that can go. Kiera Hogan is probably untapped potential. Queen Aminata, Untapped potential. Like, put these ladies on TV because you have a you have a stacked roster. Give them a shot.
Blak Makk:There's no reason, although she's killing it on on ring of honor. Like, I need to see before this year ends, Mercedes Monet versus Athena. Hell, give me Athena versus Thunder Rosa. Give me a promo number, please,
Frank Dee:too. So would you consider at this point, ring of honor okay. I understand that that Tony acquired this this this company, this IP. Do you consider this to be a developmental brand for AEW, or is this its own organization?
Blak Makk:I do. It it I I would see it as a developmental, but you have people on there. And, again, the people that you aren't using, like, if they need work, put them on ring of honor. Granted and this is my whole problem with ring of honor. It's not on television because I've been saying it for I've been saying it for it.
Blak Makk:Now they've kinda trailed off with it, but Ring of Honor at one point was the best brand, then collision, then dynamite, then rampage. The only problem with ring of honor is that it wasn't on television. Now you don't even feature your champions on ring of honor. You put them on you put them on the main shows. For what?
Blak Makk:It's not gonna make me tune in to ring of honor. Like, unless they have a television show. The average fan probably doesn't really care about ring of honor, but they are they are a good brand. They are if you really are in tune with the product like that, ring of honor is a very good show. It's just people don't see it.
Blak Makk:And that's my problem with it. Like, they're coming here for death before dishonor next month. I'm probably gonna go to the show, but how many mainstream fans really know what what Ring of Honor is enough to wanna go to this show? You know what I mean? But you have good talent on the show, and you can develop them.
Blak Makk:You have somebody like an Athena who she has a wrestling school out here, and a lot of the people that have been on no gimmicks go to this school. They're very good at what they do. They're they're awesome at what they do. They have weekly shows here, and you have somebody like that leading ring ring of honor. But put them on television.
Blak Makk:Let let's show the audience, like, what you're actually doing with them.
Frank Dee:So I I honestly believe it's only gonna be a matter of time before we see Athena back in WWE.
Blak Makk:I I I I think so. I would be happy for her. But, again, if she were on if she were on AW Television
Frank Dee:Yeah. And that's right right there. Why is she not on AW TV? Out of all of the the talent that they push, why
Blak Makk:is she not on there? She's I'm gonna go on record to say this right now. Athena is if she's if she's not top 3, she's top 5.
Frank Dee:So Women's wrestlers
Blak Makk:in the world right now.
Frank Dee:So let me so so so let me ask you this question. When it comes to, Mercedes, so you watched the pay per view, and and this is what I hear from people who watched it watched it, you know, a lot well, people who were there in the building. Willow was more over than Mercedes.
Blak Makk:Yep. I would agree with that. Yeah. I would agree with that because Willow's put the work in, and Willow Willow is a part of the crowd. Now their match was very good, but I'm telling you now, if that were Athena, we'd still be talking about this match.
Frank Dee:So do you think we are going to in their in their women's right now, Do you think at some point we're gonna get Soraya versus Mercedes?
Blak Makk:At some point, yeah, because they're hinting towards it right now.
Frank Dee:Do you think it's we will get it. And, obviously, we're gonna see Mercedes versus doctor Britt at some point.
Blak Makk:Yep. At some point, we will see it. At Yeah. For for what I think for what I would think, we'd probably get Mercedes versus Soraya at Wembley.
Frank Dee:That makes perfect sense. That's where I would do it.
Blak Makk:Yeah. I would do it. I think we'd get it.
Frank Dee:Save all your big you save all your big matches for Wembley. I'm very curious to see what the turnstile count's gonna be this this time at Wingley.
Blak Makk:I I would imagine it's probably gonna be a dramatic dip. I'm gonna say 60,000.
Frank Dee:We'll see.
Blak Makk:We'll see.
Frank Dee:I was being facetious.
Blak Makk:But but here's how here's how you get me here's how you get me invested in Wembley. Mhmm. Right? I know they're doing Osprey versus Swerve at, Forbidden Door. That matches set.
Blak Makk:I would have Swerve beat Will Osprey at Forbidden Door.
Frank Dee:I don't need to cut you off real quick. You have your phone by you. Right?
Blak Makk:Yep.
Frank Dee:Okay. I'm gonna send you something real quick. Just just take a look at this picture. Okay. We're doing this live on the show, people.
Frank Dee:But, yeah, I I just saw this.
Blak Makk:I would do I would do Swerve versus, Osprey. Have have Swerve be Osprey at Forbidden Door, then run it back at Wembley. What the hell is this?
Frank Dee:How many people you see there in that picture?
Blak Makk:Not a lot.
Frank Dee:Yeah. That was to watch the the the debut of the acolyte tonight.
Blak Makk:Oh, wow. Yeah.
Frank Dee:That's crazy. Yeah. Wow. We'll talk more about we'll talk more about that off air. I guess it's alright to tell you.
Frank Dee:But it's 10:35, either.
Blak Makk:But, yeah, I would I would I would say run it run it back at Wembley with those 2. You'll probably draw a good crowd. At that point, I still don't wanna swerve to lose the championship. But if you were going to do it, I would have him be Osprey at Forbidden Door that establishes him as a as a champion credibly. And then you run it back at Wembley, and then you you have Osprey there.
Blak Makk:That's a short reign. It's a short reign. I get it, but the writing's on the wall.
Frank Dee:And Yeah. Unfortunately.
Blak Makk:It it it is on the wall. But if you want if you want it to be a good match, then have swerve beat Osprey or Forbidden Door.
Frank Dee:So let's let's switch real quick, you know, before we wrap this up. Let's switch real quick over to the WWE. Yep. So, uncle Dave is reporting that Roman Reigns is set to return in July to the WWE.
Blak Makk:What do they have going on in July?
Frank Dee:Well, for, you know, getting ready for summer slam.
Blak Makk:Well, yeah, I know that, but do they have anything in July? Is there is
Frank Dee:there any Yeah. I'm not sure. So they're they're getting ready for Reigns to come back. And, obviously, Reigns is gonna be when he comes back to his head off. Yeah.
Frank Dee:It's gonna be a swinger, though. It's not gonna be full fledged babyface yet, but they're leading to this. So the big the big story here is gonna be, obviously, what do you do next year for WrestleMania? How do we well, obviously, it's gonna be Roman versus The Rock. That's the match that they wanna do this year.
Frank Dee:They're gonna do it next year. So
Blak Makk:I don't know if I wanna see that, though.
Frank Dee:I'm a be honest. Think it's 2 years too late
Blak Makk:at the end. I agree with that. And that that's that's why I'm like, I'm on the I'm on the fence about that. Y'all But it's
Frank Dee:a different dynamic. Match 3 times. It's a different dynamic. It but it's a different dynamic now. Because if The Rock continues with the final boss, that's what makes makes it compelling because it's the final boss.
Frank Dee:It it's it's the it's a different breed of the rock. And I guess, like, okay, I guess I'll go back to what I said earlier about. I haven't seen you know, when I say Christian hasn't done his I didn't see The Rock do any of this shit during his entire career. So I guess it's different now. You have you these guys turn up the volume a little bit more.
Frank Dee:Whatever. Okay. So I'll give Frish in a pass. I don't think he gets Frish. I think Frish is a is a great athlete.
Frank Dee:I I enjoyed captain Charisma and all that. So it's just different because it's like, I saw a guy in MJF doing the same gimmick, same shit.
Blak Makk:Right.
Frank Dee:And then Right. You know, you're doing you're not doing it. And I'm trying to and, you know, real quick, going back to AEW. It's funny. Would it be kinda interesting if you saw some kind of interaction between Christian and Jack Perry and Alisha Soros because Christian can kinda say, see, I I knew you had it in you.
Frank Dee:Kinda like that. How how there he is now is the Ultra Hill. I knew you had it. And why is it from a story perspective? Because the elite inserted Christian Cage right into this match with Swerve.
Frank Dee:Why wouldn't Jack Perry want revenge against Christian? They have history.
Blak Makk:They're both healed.
Frank Dee:Why would you doesn't matter. DNW opened after all people. They didn't give a fuck about if you were healed or face.
Blak Makk:Yeah. Sure too.
Frank Dee:I'm just saying. That's what I would've went. That's what I did. Oh, I got a problem with you. Like, you took you took my dinosaur friend away from me, so I'm gonna take you out.
Frank Dee:You know
Blak Makk:what I mean? Alright. I I I get it. So July 6th is money in a bank in Toronto.
Frank Dee:Copy that. So I think that's where we're kinda gonna see some shit happen. They got a lot of they got a lot to go with there. Not sure what Jimmy, Jimmy Jimmy Uso's status is right now. Don't know.
Frank Dee:Jay, listen. Here's a good question for you. Okay? Here's a good question. And, I saw this, and I'm like, let me go ahead and ask this on the podcast.
Frank Dee:Is Jey Uso over, or is his entrance over?
Blak Makk:On this one, I'm gonna say Jay Uso is over. Okay. I I'll I'll I'll go out on the limb and say that one. This so for me and I'm gonna compare this to Seth freaking Rollins.
Frank Dee:Mhmm.
Blak Makk:Was Seth freaking Rollins over, or was his music over? In this case, I would say his music. But in Jay Russo's case, I think the presentation that he puts out in the ring, kinda similar to The Rock is he can carry a match. He can keep the crowd invested throughout a match. His interest is fucking amazing, but that energy translates also in the ring.
Frank Dee:I think Jey Uso is over, and he was over way before the entrance. Let's not forget that. So that's where I'm gonna go with. It's Jey Uso is the one that's over. The entrance just enhances him.
Frank Dee:Kind of not much no. Not not much different than the ultimate warrior. Agreed. Agreed. He was over because of the music, but it was also because of the presentation.
Frank Dee:I don't know if it would have been the same without the music. Of course, I I yeah. I do. Because I've seen videos of Warrior without the music, and it just wasn't the same. The music is what popped.
Frank Dee:You know what I mean? Yeah. So
Blak Makk:Yeah. There's no way you can hear fucking metal guitars at a fast rate in this motherfucker sprinting to the ring. Like
Frank Dee:Yeah.
Blak Makk:Like a madman.
Frank Dee:If you're not getting with that, then you're just like you'd see him come out here to music. And they're like, oh, yeah. This is
Blak Makk:pure cocaine. We just don't know it because we're kids.
Frank Dee:Right. Right. And water was my favorite.
Blak Makk:The promos, bro. The promos. Right. But I agree. I agree.
Blak Makk:Yes. Scott Hall is my favorite. But Well, I was talking about
Frank Dee:as a kid. Warrior was my favorite. Motherfuckers. But then, you know Oh, yeah. Scott Hall, you know, losing losing my.
Frank Dee:You know? Scott Hall has swag before swag was a word, bro.
Blak Makk:I just saw him hanging out with black kids with a whole bunch of chains and shit on. I was like, oh, this motherfucker's cool. Yeah. Yeah. He in the hood.
Blak Makk:Yep.
Frank Dee:Driving around.
Blak Makk:From he's from the hood like us.
Frank Dee:You know, driving with the Cadillacs and shit.
Blak Makk:Some motherfuckers in the shit. I like them.
Frank Dee:Yeah.
Blak Makk:Alright, man. Final thoughts. What you got?
Frank Dee:What are the final thoughts? Well, the final thoughts are this. I'm gonna wait to watch Star Wars series and his review of the Acolyte. Okay. They're basically saying that the 3rd episode of the acolyte is going to destroy you if you are not a if you are a pre Disney Star Wars fan, it's going to destroy you, and you're not gonna wanna watch Star Wars anymore.
Frank Dee:Kinda got a a a inclination of what it is. I'm not a fan of it. So we'll see what happens with that. And and other than that, man, once again, people, alright, and I sincerely mean this, help control the pet population. Okay?
Frank Dee:It's very hot outside, people. I mean, it it got to about a 103 degrees, but it felt like a 110 is what they said today. Okay? Now if you if you don't like to be outside walking barefoot and and and blisters and and around these parts, there's scorpions and all types of shit. Mhmm.
Frank Dee:What makes you think your your dog is gonna like that? You think your dog wants to be out there walking around in that hot ass pavement with their paws, burning their paws? Because it's time to go for a walk. You you really think that, so people use common sense. Alright?
Frank Dee:Just don't do it. Alright? That's that's all I'm saying. Help control the pet population. Have your pets spayed or neutered and along with the empire.
Blak Makk:Alright. Alright. Don't forget, we have a plethora of shows. So if you didn't catch us, if you didn't catch us live, follow us, on thedfpn.com, and no gimmicks has a tab there. This show will be uploaded to d f p n dot com as well as all streaming platforms.
Blak Makk:So, again, that is thedfpn.com or wherever you, listen to podcasts, Spotify, Apple, if you listen to them on YouTube because now Google Podcasts is on YouTube. We are there too. So make sure you guys follow us, and shout out to everyone that tuned in. Thank you guys for tuning in tonight. We actually had a pretty good audience tonight.
Frank Dee:So And and don't forget right now on all the streaming platforms, including the d f n dot com, episode what was it? 71 of the no gimmicks podcast. Great show. Just dropped today. Okay?
Frank Dee:That was the show we did last week, but this jabron right here didn't upload at the time. Okay? So,
Blak Makk:No. I uploaded it, but I scheduled it for Thursday, and then I left town.
Frank Dee:Exactly. Yes. And I can check it out. That's what I'm talking about. You're you know, use your use your Jedi mind trick.
Frank Dee:But don't don't don't forget. You know, check it out. You know, leave us, you you know, leave us some feedback, 5 star review if you we have in public. Alright? Because we we put out the best product we can possible here on the podcast and across the entire USEMs.
Frank Dee:I'm about the queens of nerd. Okay? We got MEMS. We got Smoke Pit. We got the USEN.
Frank Dee:We got everybody over here doing our thing. So, hey, it's gonna be the summer of DFPN. Alright?
Blak Makk:It is. It is. Oh, last thing before I go. Oh, what? So should should I announce it right now?
Frank Dee:No. We'll we'll we'll hold off. I haven't figured it out yet. Yeah. I haven't figured it out yet.
Frank Dee:So I gotta figure these things out. Alright. Well, you know, go ahead. Go ahead. Go ahead.
Frank Dee:You can you can I mean, because if because we can put out there because if if we don't do it, we don't do it, but, you know, we can put out
Blak Makk:Yeah? We'll put it out there. Fuck it. So on, we we are going to be the no gimmicks podcast. We're gonna be taking a cue from our friends over at the Queens of Nerdom, seeing as how they had so much fun at Phoenix fan fusion.
Blak Makk:There is a Comic Con, the Greater Austin Comic Con, come in July 20th 21st. No gimmicks will be there as press, and, we'll be doing the cosplay life. And we will be interviewing folks on the Greater Austin Comic Con. It's a pretty good pretty good panel, of folks coming to that comic con too. So
Frank Dee:I wonder I wonder what what cosplay if we're if we end up going with cosplay, am I gonna bring? I have so many.
Blak Makk:Just bring 1 and make sure I
Frank Dee:mean, I don't know I don't know if I wanna do Rogue 1 Vader, if I wanna do a flashlights back later, if I wanna do a new hope Vader. I don't know if I wanna be a Jedi or if I wanna be a Sith. I don't know.
Blak Makk:I guess I know what I wanna be. That's all. I will be that. Definitely will be that. But, yeah, we will be at the Great Austin Comic Con July 20th, 21st.
Blak Makk:If you see us, come say hello, and we will be having us some fun in Austin. So that is our announcement, and we are gonna be, working towards that. So pretty excited. Pretty excited. And, thank you to to the team for for all their work and, keeping us all inspired to to do good things and reach higher heights and grow this brand that is DFN.
Blak Makk:So you guys are doing awesome work, but appreciate it. But that's it, man. You got anything else?
Frank Dee:Nope. I don't have anything else. And, that's something I can do with here. The No Gameness Podcast on the DFPN. Don't forget to subscribe to the Patreon.
Frank Dee:$3 a month will get you unlimited access to everything that we do here on DPN. Also, check out dpn.com. That's pretty much it, bro.
Blak Makk:Alright, man. So for myself and for Frank d, thank you guys for tuning in. Come back next time. Until then, enjoy whatever it is you wanna enjoy, and peace.