Subscribe
Share
Share
Embed
How Does She Do It? is a podcast about what sits underneath the roles women carry.
Hosted by Latasha Kennedy, the show explores motherhood at the intersection of faith, family and calling through honest conversations with women building meaningful lives. We talk about the decisions, systems, relationships, setbacks and support behind what everyone else sees.
These are not conversations with women who have everything figured out. They are conversations about becoming, choosing what matters, navigating seasons that stretch you and building a life that reflects what God has entrusted to you.
From marriage and motherhood to identity, health, work, purpose, money and the dreams that still matter, How Does She Do It? asks the question women are often thinking when they look at another woman’s life they admire:
"Geez, how does she do it?"
Well sis, it’s time to find out.
Latasha (00:00)
we talk a lot about in our home about choosing each other every single day for the couple that's like yo like I love it here right what are some of the things that they can do because they're still gonna face conflict. Marriages don't end with one single event argument. Yeah they end with death by a thousand paper cuts.
Kameran, thank you so much for being here. Thank you for having me. I'm so excited. I'm so excited too. So I am fascinated by your family structure because you have two beautiful children, one who's 16, one who's five, both boys. Yes. Yep. And so I have boys, and so I have a little bit of an imagination of what your home life is like. But just for just for the kicks, can you tell us what an average Tuesday is?
is like for you and your kids. It's chaos, honestly. lots of lots of balls everywhere, you know, things constantly flying at your face or through the air. average Tuesday, the 16-year-old gets up in the morning and leaves by 6:30 to get on the bus to go to high school. And then the little one and I, we get up, we do breakfast. we are both learning Arabic together.
Cause his his dad's side of the family is all from Egypt and they don't speak English. So we are trying to learn Arabic in order to be able to communicate with them. So we'll do Arabic lessons. I usually do because that kindergarten teacher in me is still a little bit there. I'll usually do some activities with him that are educational and learning and things like that. That's usually when I'm catching up on emails with clients and things like that as well. And then he goes to school.
at twelve thirty for half day pre-K. And that's the time that I go to the gym. And then I come back and I'll do podcast episodes or you know, meet with clients or what have you until I have to go pick him up. And then the evenings are either filled with clients or some kind of a sports activity. And that's pretty much every day of the week. So we've got you know soccer, taekwondo, tennis for the older one.
Yeah, so lots of sports and things going on here. That's so cool. And so it sounds like there's a l you say cha chaotic, but the morning sounds pretty the morning is chill. Yes. Yeah, it seems morning is super chill. Yeah. It's once they they like get their eyes wide open and they're actually awake, alert, and ready for the day, that it's like, let's play a game, let's play hide and seek,
So like, you know, we'll learn ABCs or something by
me putting post-it notes on the wall and my five year olds throwing a ball and hitting hitting the post-it notes. As long as he's moving, he's learning. Yeah. But it's a lot. A lot of energy. Yeah. No, I I totally feel you on that. So when you guys are managing the mornings, is it and it's pretty uneventful. Do you do a lot of prep at night with the kids? Your teenager seems like he's up.
No.
Is so does how does that work? Because you just gloss right over the teen. You said he's up, he's six thirty, catches the bus. So he pretty much sounds like he pretty much has his situation down to a team. Is that correct? Yeah. And it took us a while to get there, but it like it's a lot of fostering that. And so yeah, he is very self sufficient. He gets himself up, gets self dressed, gets himself, you know, usually I'll do quick breakfast stuff.
like breakfast burritos or muffins or something like that. I have a lot of that on hand just to make sure that the kids can grab and go. But but for the most part, yeah, he's very self sufficient. I love that. That's it, that's super helpful for you too. It is. Okay. But also he's got two years before he's an adult.
And so like Yeah, you know what I mean? You're gonna have to figure it out now, bro, because I'm not gonna be with you in college or in your adult life to pack your school bag for you and remind you, you know, do you have your uniform and do you have this and do you have that? So yeah, it's a lot of we we we very much foster independence because they're going to need that as an adult. Yeah, no, I'm I'm totally there with you. My oldest son is a freshman in college now.
And all of those lessons that you're talking about, it really does show itself to be necessary and significant when they move on to the next chapter. and so he's not far from home. He didn't want to go far from home. but nevertheless, I we still want him to live on campus. And so he manages his life and he's doing an excellent job. He's had a lot of practice, to your point. We were just like, you know, you want to be.
a husband, you wanna be a dad, you wanna be a businessman. You gotta follow through and do, you know, you gotta finish. You gotta wake up on time. You gotta reverse engineer your day. And so yeah, all those things they they ha they matter and it's so repetitive sometimes what you have to say over and over, but it's worth it. It w it's worth it. And so watching him sort of matriculate into this new chapter with grace, it it it makes you feel like, okay.
All that was worth it, you know? Yeah. They did catch what I said. They caught it. Not at all. They were paying attention. And he showed signs. He's definitely been the early bird. It's my younger that we're still very much praying for. because he does it. They're second born. They're a different breed. They are. Bless their hearts. so you were a teacher.
for over ten years before pivoting into marriage coaching, right? Yeah. and so how did your time in the classroom prepare you for the work you do now with couples? Did you see the missing links then in the home while you were teaching the children? I sure did. Yeah. When I was a teacher, there were a couple of different things. The first thing was that I actually became a teacher because I changed my major eleven times in college and
I d I was only there five years, but I still I didn't know what I wanted to be when I grew up. And I chose education because I come from a long line of educators and it was what I had the most credits in at the time. I liked, let me rephrase that, I was good at being a teacher, but I knew that it wasn't my calling. I knew that that was not that was not where God wanted me to be long term. And so that
The the missing link there, I could see distinctly the children that came from homes of divorced parents versus the children that came from two parent homes that were loving and nurturing, all of that. So I understood. And it wasn't just in data. It wasn't just in the kids that were like academically lower. It was in their emotional state, the way that they came into the classroom every morning, the way that they
clung to me as a source of consistency, the way that they learned their their actual learning style. All of those were very different. And so I wanted to be able to help kids, but I also, when I started looking back at things that I was passionate about, when I was like, man, I know this isn't my calling, but I don't know what is, I started looking back at the things that I was really passionate about, even in high school, junior high, things like that.
And it was always relationships and not necessarily like I do but it was more like what what makes some relationships work and some relationships not? What's the research behind there? What's the foundational, you know, piece, missing links that that people that get divorced don't have that people that stay together do? So it was that kind of thing. That's what I started looking into and then eventually got into marriage coaching.
Got you. And so when you w so now that you are fully invested in being a coach and helping families, do you see now those correlations in in the same way where, you know, you spoke of children who are of divorced parents, children who are have happy homes. Are you seeing that do you also work with the children when you're working with the family or are you only working with the couples? Only only the adults, only only the couples.
Got you, got you. But but do you still see I guess the correlation between the differences and the ways in which I guess the leaks that are happening emotionally in the family are leaking onto the the the children and and their school situation and emotional health? I would actually say that I see it more so now
now that I'm in the marriage coaching space and I underst and it and maybe not necessarily see it more, but understand it more. I understand what's happening, I understand why it's happening, and I can actually better equip those families so that the it doesn't happen, so that their marriages do stay strong and stay together. And I wouldn't even say stay, I would say rebuild to be stronger so that then and that trickles down to the parenting
Aspect as well. Fixing your side of the street. Do you tend to recommend for each individual in the marriage to have their own separate counseling? Or do you prefer for them to just stay together, stick together in counseling and sort of try to talk through their different conflicts together?
yes, I do recommend that both individuals get help, but also getting help as a couple. Because
A marriage, and this is where we get tripped up, is that we think that we're automatically equipped to get married because we're in our 20s or 30s or 40s or 50s. That's what everybody does, right? Like that's the American dream. You get married, you buy a house, you have the kids, all the things. Nobody is actually equipped to be in a marriage until they have learned to be in a marriage. We spend tens of thousands of dollars on this wedding.
That is one day. It is the best party you will ever throw in your life. And most expensive. And then you wake up the next morning and it's like, Well, what do I do? You know what I mean? Like you have no idea. So when you've learned to be in a marriage, that's the thing. But most of us didn't get that. So two whole people have to come into this marriage and make a union together.
So when you've worked on yourself, that's why I recommend getting individual coaching as well, because everybody needs to learn how to be a better individual before learning how to become a better, better together. Give us just your feedback, your thoughts about some of the best ways to begin the journey. If if maybe be even if you're not married yet, but you want to be married for the woman who does want to be married, what are some great steps for her to take in terms of
really preparing for the journey, not for a f a perfect journey, but just to feel prepared for the journey in itself. The first thing I would say, so there's a story that I tell a lot of my clients and the way that this works is that there's this couple that gets married and they go home after the honeymoon and she wants to make her husband a a great meal.
And so she makes this pot roast and she cuts the ends of the pot roast off, throws it in the pan, and puts it in the oven. And her husband is looking at her like she is nuts. And he's like, Why do you cut the ends of the pot roast off? And she's like, I don't know. This is the way my mom did it. So they call the mom and the mom's like, This is what well, that's just what my grandma or like what what my mom did. So they call the grandma and the grandma goes, I just cut the ends of the pot roast off because that's the way that's the only way it would fit in my pan.
And so this is the thing is that but like this is how it happens is that generationally we don't ever stop to ask, okay, why do I do these things? Why do I believe what I believe? Why am I choosing the way that I'm choosing? Why am I living the way that I'm living? And it's because it's generational. So the where I would suggest everybody starts is really doing a deep dive into your own life. Why do you not like broccoli?
Do you really not like broccoli? Or is it because your parents didn't like broccoli? Or is it because, you know, like we didn't eat a lot of seafood growing up because my mom didn't like it. So we just me and my brothers just assumed, well, we we don't like it either. That's not true at all. I actually like some seafood, some I don't, but some I do. So it may just be a case of you didn't have access to that, right? So excuse me. so looking at your life.
And looking at why you believe what you believe and really taking inventory of that and saying, okay, is this what I'm choosing to to move forward with? And looking at your parents' behaviors. Do you did you grow up with an alcoholic for a parent? Did you grow up with someone who yelled? Did you grow up with, you know, like what was the discipline like in your household? Is that how you want to move forward? Is that what you want in your life? Right? So looking at that.
And really looking at what you believe you need and want for a spouse and what that really looks like. Maybe you didn't grow up with a dad that was emotionally available. Is that okay to you? Or do you need some do you need more? looking at the way that those shaped your li that that those experiences, exposures, and education shaped your life. And then seeing what you're okay with keeping.
what you need enhancements on, what you want to throw out completely, or what you want more of. Yeah, that's such good advice. Thing that people need to realize is that marriages don't end because of a lack of communication or lack of money or lack of something like that. Marriages end because one or both have hardness of heart. It even talks about that in the Bible, that there is hardness of heart in the marriage. And if that is the case and one person is living in unforgiveness, it's never going to work.
So the first thing is like if you look at the triangle, you're on one corner, God is at the top, and your partner is on the other. If you are further away from God, you're further away from your partner. The closer you are to God, the closer you are to your partner. So you have to look at that first. But second, you also have to look at your own resentment and what what is being, you know, caused by that. When you said that the that the enemy is not carnal.
It is absolutely more prevalent than what we realize. And we do not, I mean, like you can't see the demons that are infiltrating your marriage. But this is what I always tell my my my couples that I'm working with: the problem is never the problem. The problem is deeper than the problem. So if you're fighting about money, you're not actually fighting about money. You're fighting about what money means to both of you. So it means power, it means respect.
It means security. It means something deeper than that. Okay. So what when you're fighting about a surface level problem that seems really big, look deeper and start asking questions. When we come at each other in an attack mode, we're putting up defenses and we're firing back, right? Our our fight or flight mode is activated. When we're coming out at curiosity,
Right? How well do you really know your partner? Yes, you asked a bunch of dopey questions when you were dating and you were like, my gosh, this person's so wonderful. Everything they do is so cute. The honeymoon stage is going to end, and you guys are going to enter the power struggle stage where all of those cute things that you had now irritate you and you want to choke them. So you have to actually look at that and be like, Hmm, okay, let's go deeper.
And you have to continuously get to know your partner because of this. Because when and and especially for women, when we with every child that we have, our first children that we bring into the world are so sweet and kind and the world is just too too awful for this sweet baby. And then our second one comes along and they're throwing bombs and walking away. Whatever. Deal with it.
Right? Completely different children. I am not the same mother that I am now as I was fifteen years ago when I started my possibly my oldest. That's just not a thing. So are you getting to know your partner for who you are now? What does money mean? What does support mean? Care, love, respect, all of these words, right? They might mean something different now than they meant five, 10, 15, 20 years ago. So constantly getting to know each other as well.
Absolutely. We talk a lot about in our home about choosing each other every single day. It's a choice, you know, that we're yeah, that to choose you. I choose you every single day. And one of the things that my husband and I have done also is we beyond the love language, we explore emotional needs. So we would take we would take this emotional needs questionnaire test or something.
And it's a it's a it's very thorough. It asks all the things from food to intimacy and y I was so surprised how his needs have changed over the years. And so it's just a matter of a question because I assume that his needs were or rather I was the way I was loving him was really based on how I wanted to be loved, right?
And those were not his needs. He had totally different needs. So when I read his answers, I was shocked at how simple it he he needed it to be for him to feel connected. And then me, of course, I have like all the things or whatever. But he's not surprised. But still he also was, you know, surprised at some of the things because he thought.
I thought gifts was really big on your list. And really, it was service and it became service because now we have two kids. Yeah. You know, like when I was young and we didn't have any kids, it was all about me. Now it's it's about us. And so when you show up and I don't have to ask, you're my hero, the whole world opens up for me. You know? So those understanding those things and for him.
One was when he was younger, he didn't really think about care about food so much. And now he's out, he works harder, you know, doing all the things. He's like, I'm hungry, babe. Like, you know. So just being able to embrace who your person is in this season. And it's kind of interesting because you I feel like I get a different version every so often. And you just have to be willing to keep up and embrace and not feel this need for
him to be.
be who I think he should be, but to love him as he is and show up for him in that season as he is. So for moms and especially wives who are like, okay, listen, ladies, I love my man, but I'm stretched. I've I've I'm I feel like I'm a good communicator. I feel like I put my knees out on the table even without a a test, right? And yet
There's no movement, there's no adjustments, you know, and I'm getting to a point where kind of tired of asking. personally, I feel like that's where the resentment seed gets is first gets planted. So what would be your advice for her? Who she's she's not holding it in, but she's also doesn't feel like she's being heard. Yeah. so the first thing you have to do is check your expectations. people, adults.
Are just babies in big bodies, if you look at it like truly. So look at like your small children, right? Do you expect them, like do you expect a three-year-old, for example, to be able to do their own laundry? No, because they haven't been taught to do that, right? So it's the same thing with our husbands. As women, we have really high expectations, and expectations are just premeditated resentments.
That's all they are. So all so what we're doing there is the equivalent when we're saying, husband, love me this way. You only have the same love language as your partner five percent of the time. I have worked with hundreds of couples over the last eight years. One. I've had one couple in those hundreds, probably close to two, two, three hundred couples, one time have they had the same love language.
When we love each other, we love in the way that we want to be loved. We apply the golden rule. But we have to apply the platinum rule too. And that's loving them how they want to be loved. So here's the equivalent is when you're going to your husband saying, Love me better, love me more. It's no different than telling your three-year-old, wash your clothes, put them in the dryer, fold them now. They do not have any idea what you're talking. You are literally speaking Greek to them.
Yeah. So you have to go to your partner and say, Listen, I don't feel loved in these ways. Now, here's the thing. This is what we don't realize. Okay. And this is also how the enemy speaks to us. Clear back in childhood, you developed self beliefs about the world, about your life, about all the things and about yourself. Okay. So self beliefs like I'm not good enough.
Money is hard. I don't have a choice. I don't have a voice. Bad things happen to me. I'm gonna get in trouble. This is a few of the hundreds that are out there, right? Those self-beliefs turn into filters that you see the entire world through. So I'm not good enough, for example. That shows up at your job. It shows up in the way that you mother. It shows up in the way that your your husband parents as well. Shows up in the way that you show up to holidays, right?
my gosh, I'm not gonna be good enough, and my mother-in-law's not gonna like the casserole that I made, and she's gonna judge it. And that's the filter, right? That creates a feeling. Feelings come in, they go out, which then leads to an emotion. Emotions get stuck in our bodies and can actually become addictive for our bodies to make. So that then leads to an emotionally triggered behavior: fighting, selfishness, self-centeredness, defensiveness, jealousy.
A secondary addiction of scrolling on your phone or what have you. We're expecting our partners to show up the way that we would. That's not them. That's not how that's gonna happen. So when you are at this point of like, I am at my breaking point, I have an ask, I shouldn't have to ask anymore. Right. You actually have to slow it down and say, what's the disconnect here? Okay. So you have to go to your partner and say, I feel
When because I need you have to lay it out specifically what they need. So it could say it could be as simple as I feel lonely when you're on your phone at night instead of engaging with me because I didn't get a lot of emotional attunement as a child. And it made me feel very alone, and I feel abandoned by you as well. I need 20 minutes per night.
Of one-on-one conversation with no distractions. Can we do that? Everything in our marriages comes from a place of strength or weakness. Okay. So every decision we make, every thought we have about our partner, every way that we communicate, we think that we're better communicators than what we really are. So when you go to your partner and you're saying, you never do this, you never do that, you're activating their self beliefs.
So that now their filter is engaged and it happens this fast. Like we don't even realize how quick that whole cycle happens of self-belief filter, feeling an emotion, and then emotionally triggered behavior. We don't even realize that. But that's how it's happening. So when we're having the same argument over and over and over and living it in a literal loop of insanity, do something different. Communicate in a different way. Because most likely it's either the fact that your partner doesn't know how.
Or they don't have the capacity to do what you're asking them to do. So when you come at it from that pos position and you have a little bit more compassion for them and you choose them instead of your own self-centeredness, now we're speaking a different language and we can get somewhere. Kemmer, you what you're really talking about also is like patience and compassion and from both. Yeah, bruise of the spirit. I mean
These are things that, you know, it's it's when you t when we s when we say slow down, that in and of itself is like a sentence. It's like slow down, period. Sure is. Because when you are either when either are going on a tangent, a rant, lecturing, it's so easy for the next person to feel like, Do you think I'm a kid? Are you talking to me like this? 'Cause you think I don't understand basic principles, you know, like and the other person's like just
feels like they just need to explain themselves. And you're and so you just have these weird disconnects, you know? Yeah. And it's it's unfathomable to even imagine that you're gonna spend a lifetime, hopefully, with a person and never have a a conflict and that your two worlds will never collide. Yeah. And so I think having these type of strategies to walk into your marriage with or to introduce to your marriage.
are so helpful because at the end of the day, you married you chose that person for a reason and that person is technically still there if you can get to them. Now, obviously people change and circumstances change, obviously. but if you're you want to do the work and he wants to do the work, then there's some incredible work to be done. And I just love, you know, the work that you're doing and the ways in which you're helping couples.
really sort of find their way back to each other and work through some of these very difficult seasons. It's super important work. Yeah. Thanks. I think so too. I truly believe that if that no marriage and I believe me, after eight years and hundreds of couples, I have seen a lot. And I don't at this point I'm not shocked by anything. When people call and they're like, well, for sure. You know, we've got this going on. And I'm like, okay, that's
Yep. Yeah. Been there. Yeah. It's not a big deal. Yeah, because everybody's human. Yeah. But this is that when we look at that and we get help for what we what we have, any marriage, I I truly believe this. Any marriage can be reconciled, saved, and even redeemed to a point that you never thought possible. If you both want it for sure. So let's talk about even quote unquote happy couple.
Right. The whether they're in a honeymoon stage, whether they're on the other side of reconciliation. Yeah. for the couple that's like, yo, like, I love it here. Right. what are some of the things that they can do? Because they're still gonna face conflict, right? They're still I I love spending time with my husband.
I just could just eat up, right? Yeah. But then there are times where I'm like, my gosh, babe, I just want to hang out with the girls, you know? Or there are times when hearing them chew, I'm gonna go to the other room. So there are these all these weird spaces that even in a happy space that you can embody. And so for the happy couple, for the couples that are just on cloud nine, what is your advice for them in terms of
Staying there, maintaining that, and how how would you coach them so that they can be even happier? Yeah, absolutely. So I love what you were saying earlier about you and your husband that you guys are just really that you take personal development seriously because that's the key right there. Marriage was not created for happiness. Marriage was actually created by God for growth. Okay. Your partner is going to trigger you.
Because, and even more so than anybody else on this planet, your children and your spouse are the two that are going to trigger you to the nth degree. And the reason is that those are the that's that's how God shows you, see, that still needs to be worked through. That's a growth area. So when your partner is triggering you, you really need to be thanking them. You really need to be like, Thank you so much for showing me.
That I do not have patience and compassion for your chewing right now because I want to rip your teeth out of your mouth. But you know what? I'm gonna go work on myself instead. It sounds so ridiculous. But that's absolutely what it is. That's absolutely what it is. I have that. It's called mesophonia, by the way. When you can't stand the way other people are chewing. Yes. I have it too. I totally get it. I mean it is absolutely a mental illness. And that I I have it too. I get it too. I have literally looked at my my oldest, my my oldest.
Brought a bag of chips into the living room the other day and I was like, mm-mm, nope, don't you even bring those in here. You go right. Please don't do that. And he knew he was like, okay. He was on the phone with a friend and he was like, he was like, hold on, I gotta go to the other room. My mom's gonna murder me. And I was like, Yeah, absolutely. So like they just know at this point of like, mm-mm, don't you bring something crunchy around me. I will lose my mind. So yeah, no, I get it. But with that, it's gross.
But like to answer your question, it's growing together. Both of you, like Jesus Christ is the only one in this entire world that is perfect. So you've always got something that you can be working on to grow together. And if you're both on those journeys, it's so fun, honestly, to come back and be like, okay, so this is what I was learning today in my Bible study, or this is what I was learning today about myself.
And this is what I'm seeing. Are you seeing the same thing? What are you learning? What did you learn? You know what I mean? So when you have that, now it's a whole other hobby that you guys get to share, but also have your own personal journeys into so cool. Yeah. I think also for the both of us to call Christ Lord, that part is so important. the growth that we both are having in our own Christian walk and being able to
present.
that to each other so that we're willing to out try to outserve each other so that we're willing to try to hear each other through you know challenges. And there was a story I that I how you read the Bible and you read a story and you're like, wow, I didn't see that before. Well it's the story of right after the crucifixion, resurrection of Christ. And the two disciples are walking along and they're lamenting about everything that happened. And Jesus
just walks along with them. Yeah. And then he's like, what happened? And they're like, dude, what do you mean what happened? Are you from out of town? Like Jesus was crucified. Like that's that's is a big deal, dude. How do you not know that? And so Jesus is sharing scripture and all the things. And then, you know, Jesus was gonna just keep walking, but it was late. So they invited him in for dinner. And then when he broke
Spread, that's when they realized that, my God, like it's Christ. He was He actually is arisen. And so that story was so profound to me because Jesus could have every right to go postal and be like, I cannot believe that after all this time of walking with me, that you don't recognize me, that you cannot see that I am.
Like who I s who I said I would be and that what I said would happen has happened. Instead, he just walked with them. He just was willing to share stories and and eventually show his scars to his disciples and say, touch me, feed me. I'll I'll prove to you that what I said before is true. And so I just found in that story for I was so touched because I found that God is so patient.
And yes, even though I suffer from that major illness that you just pronounced that I can't, but yeah, the level of patience that Christ has for us is just it's so hard to fathom. And because of our great love for him and our desire to walk with him, that even in that story, I was like, wow, God, how can I be more patient? How in in just being like that.
Where someone is saying something or doing something. And I'm like, how do you not know that after all these years of me walking with you and being your mom or being your wife that like, you know, fill in the blank? And it's like because we're human and sometimes we just miss it. And it doesn't mean that person is bad or they've changed. It just means they missed it. And will you be patient enough to continue once again to repeat or to affirm?
you know, your love and your devotion just for the so the human heart can just have that affirmation. So I I just I I I think that Christ is such a great example for us in marriage, but yet it really does take the the power of God to help you slow down so that you not so much always so that you see them, but that you see yourself and can make an adjustment.
Humility is the key to everything. Humility is the absolute key to everything because when you realize, like when you're sitting here and you're so frustrated with your kids or you're so frustrated with your spouse, you have to realize that you've done the same thing. You may have forgotten something or you may have messed up or you have, and are you absolutely sure when you are raking them across the coals that you haven't made your biggest mistake?
You're not you know what I mean? You can't say you can't say that you have. So when we have complete humility and we are like one hundred percent humble to ourselves, and you know, even with our kids, there's so often that I'm like, Why do you not listen? What what are you doing? When I'm saying things and I'm like, How many times has God thought about that for me? Okay. Like, yeah, you know what I mean? Like he gives us these ideas of like, yep, and you're my child, just like these are your children and
We're we're all in the same boat. You know what I mean? So the thing is with your with your spouse, you've been in the same position that they have. And when you have that humility, your love for them actually grows so deep that it does become the love that Christ has for us. Completely unconditional when you remove your expectations, when you stop living in unforgiveness and you get rid of your resentment.
So looking at that and just completely having a completely different set of humility.
And what I will also tell you for for the woman out there that's like, but I'm trying to save my marriage on my own.
Yep, you are. And you know what? Having that humility toward your spouse and not living in unforgiveness and everything else, when you are consistently doing that, they're gonna see it. And this happened in with me in my marriage, is it might very well be the ticket to getting your spouse to actually surrender and realize what's happening. And that's what that's when they get on board then.
is seeing, okay, I give up. Like I see so much change in you. I want that too. I want the peace that you seem to have. I want the growth that you seem to have. And so that's when they start changing. So how do how do you help your children sort of navigate this world where they're seeing their dad sort of having going through his own growth spurt, so to speak? So growing pains, I guess. When daddy doesn't come around or when daddy
says he's gonna do things and he doesn't do it, then we talk about the fact that like he's going through his own journey right now and he's going and so we just have to pray for him and we have to we can't control other people. So we can tell them how it makes us feel and we can approach it from that aspect, but we can't control other people. So we just pray for him and we set boundaries where needed and the boys are allowed to say, you know what, you hurt my feelings and I don't want to come stay with you today.
Or I don't want to be around you right now because I need time and space. So they're allowed to say that and they're allowed to they're allowed to feel what they feel and they're and we talk about that and and we pray about it and just go on. We also talk about like, okay, and you know, this is not right. But also going back to that capacity thing, we also talk about the fact that like, okay, but daddy wasn't taught this thing.
Daddy wasn't taught how to have integrity. Daddy wasn't taught how to, you know, like like, so because his family is Arabic, Giddo is grandpa. So we would we say Giddo went off with his friends and would stay for two or three weeks. And and Gidda had to take care of all six kids. And so this is what Daddy saw. And it's not right. That's not what God calls us to do. But this is what Daddy saw. And so we learn what we see.
So for you guys, you just have to understand that this is not, this is what you're seeing, but it's not right. And we have to keep correct it. Yeah. And so for you as mom and divorcee, I would say, do you are you holding space only for your ex husband? Or do you is there a part of you that feels like, I think I'm while still loving him unconditionally?
Eventually I'm gonna have to move on. I'm definitely open to whatever God puts in my life. but I'm not on apps. I'm not actively seeking that. I am just, you know, I'm just very much open to whatever the Holy Spirit wants, whatever God's will is for me, not my own will. if if it were my own will, my husband and I would be back together and we would never have another fight and we would, you know, be
traveling to Europe and where all over the world every three months and everything would be great. But we live in a fallen world, not a perfect world. And so yeah, so my heart is just very open to whatever God reveals and whatever God brings in. of course I I would love for that to be my husband, but if it's not, then God knows better than me. Pl his ways and his ideas and thoughts and plans are better than mine. Yeah. I mean I think what I hear you saying is surrender.
You know, like complete surrender. And it's taken me a hot minute to get here, but it's it's difficult. It's not like I just woke up one day and was like, I think I'll surrender today. No, it was it was it was a lot of, you know, like w the story, you know, you were talking about Bible stories where Jacob wrestles with God for like a whole night and finally God breaks his hip. yeah, right there. God got yeah. I feel like God has like broken every bone in my body to be like, Why are you so stubborn? Are you getting it now?
So yes, yes, yes. My husband also loves this story of Jonah and the whale. And he loves to imagine what those days in the belly was like. Like was that when the whale was just at his best, hot jumping out of the water at the highest heights, you know, like yeah, when you imagine what it takes to like get someone to just yield, you know. It's like
It's hard to imagine. But then you think about yourself and you're like, Yeah, I'm so stubborn. So I get it. Yeah. Yeah. So stubborn. So another question I had for you was when you were talking about your husband and reconciliation, I love the journey that you explained in terms of just it it sounds a lot like you were you've put a lot of time into yourself and it was the edification and and the ways in which you were being refreshed.
that really moved his heart. So how would I mean it seems obvious, but how or rather what would you tell the wife whose husband is not a Christian, whose husband doesn't even really seem that interested in the things of God. because some people are, even though they have not, you know, called on Christ to be their savior. What's your advice for her who she's found God and she's finding her way.
Yeah. and now wants her husband to walk this journey with her. you can want all you like for the rest of your life, and it may never happen. But I have seen stories of women who have prayed and who like they have truly gone to God on their husband's behalf for 19 years, and then they final and then their husband finally comes around.
So keep keep going. Here's the other thing is that we as followers of Christ were not promised an easy life. Yeah. We just weren't. We want what's easy, we want what's good, right? What we think is good. And
This may be your Babylon. This may be the season where you are in Babylon and you are constantly, and it may be 70 years, but you have to keep going. And that's the one thing. There have been so many men yesterday was a day where I was like, all right, God, I give up. Like this is so hard. I've been doing this for, you know, I've been literally praying for this man for over a decade. Like, you know, I can't keep going.
And then your faith is renewed every morning. Your your every morning is a new day for you to choose, for you to say, No, I am gonna keep praying for them because you may be the only person in this world praying for them.
And you just have to constantly keep taking it back to God for confirmation. Do you want me to stop praying for this guy? But I would say still pray for them. Still pray for them because you never know.
what's gonna happen. surround yourself with mentors, surround yourself with with things that give you strength and fill your cup because that marriage is going to be taking it out of you. The enemy is going to be taking it out of you on the daily. Yes. And so for I don't know, even as you're talking, I imagine a woman at the door. Yeah. Just literally at the door, backpacked.
And just having made the choice that I hear you, but I just can't. And I'm sure that you see that woman too. Yeah. What advice do you give to her? She's pretty she's already got a foot out the door. Yeah. And she loves him, cares, and and is feels like she's fully aware of of this next season that she's taking her family into. What what do you tell her? How, you know, does she take
What do you tell her? What is her next step or the the best mindset that she could be in right now beyond praying? Yeah. Been there. Totally get it. And also, if you cannot look yourself in the mirror and say, if if if on judgment day, so like picture yourself at the foot of Jesus Christ himself, and he says, Did you do everything possible to save that marriage? Did you change yourself?
Did you get in the word? Did you pray for him? Did you pray for your marriage? Did you do what I told you to do? Like, did you truly do everything that you can?
Marriage always goes back to you as an individual.
And how whole you come to that marriage. Because a marriage can only be as strongest as the weakest person in that marriage. Well, if you're the weakest link and you've got the most to work on, even if you don't think you do, start recording yourself. That's what I had to do. That start recording yourself, especially in arguments. Just set up your phone and hit record and start like number one, you're gonna change your behavior because you're recording yourself. And if that's the case, if you have to change your behavior because you're being recorded and you know that like.
It's gonna be watched or whatever, that's your first sign to be like, yep, I got a lot I need to work on. But number two, you're gonna start seeing stuff. Like, I didn't realize I got as emotionally big and scary as I did. And if my husband were a lesser man, he would not have stuck around for six years. He was like, Cam, you're scary. And I was like, I would post up to him as l like, because that's what I grew up with. So like I would post up and be like, All right.
Let's go. Cause you are a moron. Like I would say things to him awful, awful, awful, awful. And so I had to record myself and look at that and be like, Holy cow, I am maybe the worst human being that ever lived on the face of this earth. And so when I'm looking at that and like humility, when you really get humble, that's when the change starts to happen. So Yeah, I mean, it's crazy because in marriage you're you spend all this time with someone and they're the closest person to you.
And yet, like you said, they could be the one that agitates you the most. yeah. And yeah, yeah. And I think you know, one of the things that's been super important to us has been boundaries. So no name calling, no cussing each other out. And and it's it's it helps you to like kind of hold the line because all of us have a way that we could say something so that exactly how we feel.
You know? Yeah. Yeah. So having those boundaries. and then just trying to trying to think about the end in mind. It is it when you're at the height of a argument and you really believe passionately about whatever it is you're fighting to be heard about, you may not be thinking about the end in mind, but at least if you have some boundaries in place where you're, you know, not gonna, you know, say certain things or because it's so hard to come back from. It is. You know.
It's so hard to come back from. And someone in that conversation has to go slow, you know? And so sometimes it's me, sometimes it's him. We don't argue a lot, but when we do, I often ask, Did you hear what I said? Because you're not answering the question or you're not responding to what I said. Well, what did you say? I said, you know, this happened, then that happened.
And I wanted whatever it is that we're talking about. and then his answer is so logical because he's explaining to me his his rationale about something that either I misunderstood, misinterpreted, you know, got wrong, whatever. But for that, you're just you're just fussing about the fact that you're fussing. And you're not gonna be able to get to any sort of solution with that. So someone has to go slow. And I would even say
you know, sometimes it's worth to just stop. Yeah. Just just pause. Like, you know, like because you're being taken a in two totally different directions. And w the pause is gonna save you three days of silent treatment. for sure. Right. It's gonna just save you all that energy. And even the idea of matching energy, I'm like, don't do that. No. That's just petty and childish, honestly.
I'm a big fan of going to bed angry because sometimes, sometimes, and I've lived this so many times, sometimes you wake up in the morning and you're like, why were we even beefing? Like that. Yeah, that's dumb. Like this this was legitimately the dumbest thing we've ever argued about. And you're like, you at that point you just apologize and move on with your day. Because like you realize how petty and childish it was.
But in terms of yeah, like like all of this, it marriages don't end with one single event. Argument. Yeah. They end with death by a thousand paper cuts. Every time you say something, every time you do something, every time you don't do something that you said you would, then it's a little paper cut. And that's that's where Yes. It is so important to the integrity piece.
is so important. If you say you're gonna do it, do it. And if you don't think that you can do it, then say that. Yeah. Just just say that. I don't know. I I will try. I'll give everything I can, but I don't know. And I'll circle back, you know, it's like it's with my son when he was getting older and he was starting to hang out with his friends to go to, you know, the beach or whatever. If you're gonna come home after the time that you said you would.
Just put in a phone call. Just tell. Like it doesn't, it w is you will lose nothing by just giving someone a heads up so that they can manage their expectations, right? And it's the same in marriage. It's this idea that like we really are doing this together. Yeah. And so I should care about your feelings. Yeah. I should care about how the things that I do and the way in which I move.
with other human beings, with you in the home, with our children. I should care. It should actually matter to me how you're going to respond, if you're going to be upset, jealous, whatever. Those things I should take into consideration and adjust behavior accordingly. And I don't think that that's about losing yourself at all. No. Like I don't feel lost doing that. No. You right?
You lose yourself in a relationship because you stop doing the things that you love in order to accommodate the person that you like that you love. So you're actually you don't lose yourself, you give yourself away. So, you know, your husband's a gamer and you're like, great, I'll game with you instead of sitting near you and reading the book that I wanted to read.
Or no, there was a girl's night, but I'm not gonna go because you know, I would rather stay home with my husband and do the exact same thing we've done day after day. No, you need those girls' nights because you're going to come back a better human, a better woman, a better wife, a better mother. It's going to fuel your soul, provided that you are spending time with people that are uplifting and empowering versus people who are gonna drag you down.
And they need that too. They need time on the golf course. They need guys' nights or guys' trips or whatever. You have to be again going back to a whole individual and not giving yourself away just for the sake of giving yourself away because eventually you're gonna wake up one day and not realize you're not even gonna recognize yourself. Man, Kameran, you have given us so many cool tips. You have really helped. I I'm almost positive that our listeners are gonna be so helped by.
Just your transparency and your commitment to really helping husbands and wives stick together and do it in a way that's really meaningful to them, not just for the heck of it, but also being willing to tarry with each other and be compassionate and patient and prayerful for their mate. So thank you so much. I I really have enjoyed chatting with you about all of this. Thank you for having me. I've enjoyed it too. It's been fun. Yeah, yeah.
So when I end a segment, I like to end w or rather a new segment I have is called The Pulse Check. And it's a rapid fire, five questions. You cannot think about it. You just tell me exactly what you think as soon as you hear the question. Okay. Okay. So the first question is it's four PM and you're hitting a wall and there's no one coming to bail you out. What is your go to mom fuel? My go to mom fuel.
Like to get me out of that set from hitting the wall. Usually I'll just go for a walk outside in nature. Ten minutes. Got you. What is the one household chore you would happily delete from existence? Dishes. Fair. Beyond being a marriage coach and a mom, I am a woman who loves painting. I love that. If you had two hours of pure unscripted freedom, where are you going?
this sounds weird, but probably to a yoga map, but not to do yoga, to actually do like breath work and prayer and just like regulating my nervous system. Okay. Okay. I love that. And when your boys look back at your life together and and their childhood, what is the one word you hope they use to describe it? So many words coming at me. I would say probably
Encouraging. I love that. Awesome. Thank you. And so for the mom who's somewhere between girl, I got it and Jesus, take the wheel. What is your advice to her in terms of how she can do it and do it with grace? I would say stop doing the things that you think you need to do that mean absolutely nothing and don't move the needle. Put those on the back burner.
Do only the things that move the needle and then and and like are going to bring the money or are going things like that. Things that you know you have to do, that you need to do. Everything else is just like get rid of the noise. When you simplify and again slow down, that's where all the fruit comes from. We're busy like a badge of honor. And so and that's where the the the clutter.
Not only in our mind, but in our homes and our businesses, all the things, that's where we start to it just starts to be clutter. And it doesn't, it doesn't actually help us. Slow down and get rid of the noise. I think that's perfect. Thank you so much. Yeah. I really have appreciated talking with you. and I look forward to following your journey and supporting you more. Please tell the listeners how they can do that as well, where they can find you.
You have books, courses, all the things. Yeah. My website is www.recognizingpotential.com. So I've got courses on there, all the things. coming out with a book later, it'll be end of May. that will be 40 question, 40 connection questions per month for the 12 months of the year. So
You can, you know, get to know your spouse and there's everything in there from like what does money mean to you? We talk about intimate life. We talk about, you know, we and even to the small simple questions of like, is your favorite ice cream still, you know, mid pistachio or whatever. So yeah, so there will be that helps with connection. And then Instagram at married dot and dot connected.
And they can also listen to my podcast, the Married and Connected Podcast, that drops every Monday at 5 a.m. Awesome. So many ways for us to continue to learn from you and to continue to continue to support you. Thank you so much again, Kameran, for coming by. And I don't have anything else. Thank you so much, Kameran, for being here. And ladies, continue to thrive. I'll see you in the next episode.