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”AI Made Easy for Small Business” by Polarity.biz is a lively podcast hosted by successful small business owners, Jim Donio and Jeremy Ryan, offering practical insights and strategies to help fellow entrepreneurs harness the power of AI, boost competitiveness, and drive growth—all with a dash of humor and fun. No prior AI experience is necessary.
I told my chatbot it was overqualified for the job. It said, that computes.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Okay. That's fine. I'm I'm okay with that one.
Speaker 1:I mean, we're almost what? Two years almost into this little experiment of ours.
Speaker 2:It's marathon. It's a marathon.
Speaker 1:And it's I was the optimist at the beginning thinking No. It's it's gonna get funnier. No. You know, give it a year or so. No.
Speaker 1:And it's just not improving. And actually, my prompt has had to evolve where I have to say, give me an original joke never before written because it's just
Speaker 2:In the history of the world.
Speaker 1:It's just replaying the same crap. More AI slob in joke form.
Speaker 3:Yeah. This is AI Made Easy for Business.
Speaker 2:Okay. So there's an article about in futurism about, researchers from Stanford, linked up with Google, who I mean, they created a virtual town. This is creepy, but also fascinating. You didn't find this fascinating?
Speaker 1:I did find it fascinating.
Speaker 2:So they created a virtual town and they released a bunch of chatbots, a bunch of a bunch of AI tools basically into it and said, alright, like have at it. Like figure out. It's like like almost like the Garden of Eden. It's like just like create this township.
Speaker 1:My Garden of Eden wouldn't be chatbot filled and I love AI. Listen you don't know.
Speaker 2:So they like let
Speaker 1:them It probably would be in Stanford though.
Speaker 2:So they let them loose and they let these bots you know study you know and to study behavior. Right? To see how they would react to each other, interact with each other. They created hierarchies.
Speaker 1:That was the part that surprised me.
Speaker 2:No. Not at all. Humans, like, they're known for like, that's what we do.
Speaker 1:Right. But but I know.
Speaker 2:We It's trained on
Speaker 1:And trained on humans. So therefore behaviors The fact that they sort of self prescribed hierarchy and, you know, relegated themselves to And like Oh, guess that is. And that
Speaker 2:and that humans are social creatures. There So they are. So human are humans are social creatures. So they mimic that. And so they became, you know, they socialized, they interacted, they had political beefs with each other, they had all kinds of stuff.
Speaker 2:So, I don't know. I think that that's that's really kind of interesting on a lot of levels. But they also did sort of like manipulate each other a little bit too. They worked each other.
Speaker 1:Well, I mean, there is we ourselves have experienced the Manipulation. Well, not just the manipulation, but you know, AI goes rogue. Like, you know
Speaker 2:Well, I thought you met people. I thought you were gonna say we've experienced Oh,
Speaker 1:that never happens. No. Even Podbot will say you know here's the featured episode link that we curated ourselves and sometimes it'll just go off Nah.
Speaker 2:I'm good. It's like, nah I got something better than you. How about can interest you
Speaker 1:in this article instead?
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know. So I think that What was the most interesting part of that?
Speaker 1:Oh, still think the hierarchy is what was it for me. The fact that I would not have expected that. I would have expected perhaps like the assignment of tasks because we talk a lot about agentic AI breaking down complex tasks into smaller chunks, going off and figuring out how to do things. I just didn't think that it would create like its own boss. Yeah.
Speaker 2:There's another article, mean, known, we've known it, that Amazon backed Amazon and Google that had have a bigger stake than realized in Yeah. Anthropic which is which owns I just hope
Speaker 1:they don't screw it up. That's Which
Speaker 2:owns and operates Club. But no, they backed Amazon has backed Anthropic for a while. Yeah. That's not a new thing.
Speaker 1:No. I I wasn't aware that, Google did, though.
Speaker 2:Google, I did not know, actually. That is interesting, but, they released that. So anyway, why does it matter? It matters because, you know, these ecosystems that are being built with these LLMs I guess if you think about it this way, when Amazon and Google back something to this degree in this level, they're gonna infuse it into their own products and also Yeah. Continue to pour more
Speaker 1:And I don't think we have anything to worry about because big tech has never bought a smaller enterprise and screwed it
Speaker 2:up And Amazon and Google are known for being the good guys. I gotta smile out of They're known for being the good guys, right? Yeah. Always. They're right up there with Meta.
Speaker 1:What was the napkin? Do no harm?
Speaker 2:Exactly. Look, for for business owners
Speaker 1:That was, for those who aren't aware, that was the original mission statement for Google was do no harm, right?
Speaker 2:Yeah, how'd that work?
Speaker 1:No, no, do no evil. No, do no evil. Yeah, I
Speaker 2:was gonna say do no harm, that's a medical thing. I think that's like a doctor. Oh,
Speaker 1:up office.
Speaker 2:I think that's a Hippocratic Oath. Okay. So this is the Chanticoretic Oath. It is. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Exactly. So why do either of those articles matter? But just the reason we threw them in the here was because like we're gonna get to to our main point of the day. But like it's because all of these things when laced together show you whether it's Stanford, whether it's whether it's Google or or Amazon, these entities, big entities, whether higher education, governments now and and these mega corporations, they're all hyper focused on one thing. It's AI and quickly accelerating it.
Speaker 2:Now that doesn't mean that's a good thing for small business owners. It's not. No. It's not in one regard. They've moved so far past you at this point that you're not gonna catch up.
Speaker 1:But I but I do think Wait. Wait. So, okay. Maybe this
Speaker 2:Well, you're not gonna catch up.
Speaker 1:Glass glass half full.
Speaker 2:You're running a race. Are they behind right now?
Speaker 1:I Or
Speaker 2:are you ahead?
Speaker 1:I think, for me, I'm I'm I'm running my race. I'm I'm I'm already You're not competing against that one. But, I I do think, well, just to stick on this, about what, a half a dozen dozen episodes ago, you were saying to me, hey, have you played around with Maybe this Gosh, maybe this was a little longer ago than I remember, but a while ago you would ask me, hey have you played around with the Google Drive integration with Claude? I was like, yeah a little bit, but I don't you know, now it makes sense of course Of course. If Google is the major investor, that's why they went there
Speaker 2:first By the way, what else makes sense, Amazon just said to suit Perplexity Yeah. Which is a competitor and said, nah, we're good. You're not allowed to you're not allowed. We don't want you linking
Speaker 1:up Right. With
Speaker 2:so it Why do I
Speaker 1:say this? Which means that your shopping experience is gonna be better on Claude. Your office experience is gonna be better when you're using Google Workspace. It's gonna be better on Claude. And guess what?
Speaker 1:Claude has been my my It's a go to. My flavor of the moment.
Speaker 2:But what I why why But what the
Speaker 1:next one comes over.
Speaker 2:Back is because as small business owners, this stuff changes so fast. And, again, you might not even know what Claude is and that's fine, but you know what Google is and you know what Amazon is. Yeah. And just understand if they're backing the number one, arguably, number one competitor to, ChatGPT and by far way down as the number one competitor. They're backing it for a reason.
Speaker 2:And what is what is Apple even doing now? They've linked up with Google. Right?
Speaker 1:So worries me It's
Speaker 2:all a really weird dynamic of
Speaker 1:know that I the glass half full guy, usually. Yeah. What worries me about this is the same thing that worried me about Waze. Right. Right, so when Google bought Waze
Speaker 2:Yeah, right, they wrecked
Speaker 1:it. Well, yeah. They wrecked it.
Speaker 2:That's it. Was cool, it was interesting,
Speaker 1:and then It was different, it was a different way to I enjoyed the social aspect of
Speaker 2:it. I know, but it's corporate now.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So I There's money to be made. I worry about that.
Speaker 2:Skype would be another good example when Was it Microsoft? Right? What? Skype. You don't even know what that is.
Speaker 2:Oh. Skype. Skype. Because it's dead now. Totally.
Speaker 2:I'm messing because they killed it. It's dead. No. I know. They killed it.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Alright. So featured article is is about
Speaker 1:I just like you saying Skype.
Speaker 2:Skype? You just feel like that word? Okay. So this is from Tom's Guide, which is clearly a reliable source And
Speaker 1:It's a stereo equipment from back in the day. Yeah. You you never like no?
Speaker 2:No. I mean, stereo.
Speaker 1:By the way, you introducing the word stereo today.
Speaker 2:There's a lot of the Hi Fi.
Speaker 1:Yes. Hi Fi systems. That's
Speaker 2:right. They gave Turntables. We'll throw the link in there just because
Speaker 1:two of them with a microphone.
Speaker 2:They gave ChattyPT, Gemini, Claude the same job interview. Basically, so like three LLMs, they gave them a different, they gave them the same job interview to see which one would perform.
Speaker 1:For a manager role.
Speaker 2:For a
Speaker 1:manager And I think that's significant too because we're talking about, you and I have talked about Program manager. Yeah. So, task based things are very AI replaceable of
Speaker 2:human So, entry level jobs, interns, things like Right.
Speaker 1:Now, we're talking about AI coming from middle management. And I think this was the journalist Amanda Coswell, think you know, brilliantly picked the sort of the next phase of what could be replaced by AI. Right. So sorry to interrupt, I just wanted to sort of set the table because I think that the premise is as important as the actual experiment itself. Well I've lost track completely.
Speaker 1:I'm not sure I thought. But thank you. I appreciate that. That was an excellent dig, sir.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Thank you. They they basically just ran interviews and the idea is that they've started to find out how to you know how these different tools will perform with cover letters and resumes and pitches and responses back and forth.
Speaker 1:So basically they put a job out there and they said which of the major three LLMs apply for this job?
Speaker 2:Which way? Which one got hired? Your winner. Your favorite. My favorite.
Speaker 2:Favorite. Claude. So you're seeing a theme here folks. By the way, if you're paying attention. Yes, ChatGPT is my is your go to right now, but Claude is like coming up.
Speaker 2:It's like a horse race. It's like coming up the rear.
Speaker 1:I thought you were gonna say Jeremy nailed it which means I should go play the lottery or something because I'm just picking winners.
Speaker 2:Yeah. It is it is you know one of our most popular ones. But so why does any of this matter? Because nobody knows what Claude is or any of this crap is. Let's be honest, the average person, business owner has no idea what we're talking
Speaker 1:about. I think more I think more are
Speaker 2:are They don't. No, unfortunately they don't. We've we proved that at at a bank, we won't say which bank, but at a bank the other day. I won't get into it but we're gonna get into that in a future episode.
Speaker 1:You introduce yourself as Claude and nobody knew where you were?
Speaker 2:No. Just where everybody is and we we see it every day with people who like, again, they know AI to them equals maybe ChatGPT and that's it. Right. They just don't know, or maybe they see it, but that's it. They don't know much else.
Speaker 2:Alright, so how can a small business owner kind of apply like what we're talking about a little bit? Because it's like, this is nice and all.
Speaker 1:Well, a wait a second. It is a little wonky, but I also think that there's some interesting aspects of this. What's some the takeaways? So first of all, you know, this idea of simulating hiring, there's a lot that small businesses can take away. But in the specific experiment itself, there were different things that were experienced by the three.
Speaker 1:And the reason why Claude One was sort of transparency and clarity.
Speaker 2:So that was what they were founded on.
Speaker 1:Right. So clarity in this case was a hiring principle for a manager. Now, if you're hiring a creative rather than a manager, you might do better with ChatGeeBT because the answers were more emotional. They were a little bit more interesting. So, I just think the understanding what you need out of the situation is as important as, yeah, I do a lot of vibe coding.
Speaker 1:So for me, I appreciate Claude. That makes sense. But if we were doing creative writing, maybe something else.
Speaker 2:Right. And most business owners right now are not doing vibe coding. So that's why it's
Speaker 1:like Right. Exactly.
Speaker 2:Right. So maybe they maybe it doesn't fit for them. But this this prove but then something as key as hiring, you know, and again, you might have a hiring manager or you just might do all the hiring yourself. And so you need to fit that in. This gives you a little indicator as to as to how it is as like a mid low the mid level manager.
Speaker 2:And so the the gist of it was that, you know, each each of these tools, whether it was Gemini, Chat, GPT, Claude, had different strengths and weaknesses, which, you know, we cover a lot because we're immersed in them a lot and we see some of those strengths and weaknesses. But it comes back to understanding in one previous episode, which was right tool for the right job. Right? It's like, what what is right for this particular need? This seems to be clawed for this type of thing related to hiring, at least for today.
Speaker 2:Right. That's gonna change and that's why it's almost like pick your tool, go with it, but just be open and mindful of how quickly things are changing.
Speaker 1:Okay. So Jim I have a question for you. You just hired all three LLMs for a job. Which one are you firing first?
Speaker 2:Gemini. Why are you Why are you Google haters? Gemini. Yeah. No.
Speaker 2:Because like Gemini First of all Gemini's cheating. First of all, Google's already cheating on Gemini with Claude. So it's like, you know what I mean? It's like a whole weird scene.
Speaker 1:It's like I'm gonna get something good anyway. You're big in loyalty.
Speaker 2:Their side they have their side deal or whatever going. So, I I would say I would keep Yeah. No. Would definitely be Gemini because ChatGPT is just ubiquitous. Everybody's using it.
Speaker 2:And Claude, we believe is better for a lot of things.
Speaker 1:For some things. Yeah. I mean, I use ChatGPT everyday too. For lot
Speaker 2:of things. So that's why Gemini is falling behind to a degree, but it's infused in in Google.
Speaker 1:You know who I'd fire? I'd fire Grock. And the reason why is Because you're biased. No. No.
Speaker 1:Actually, that's not the reason why. The reason why is because it hasn't been updated since April.
Speaker 2:Really? Yeah. That's weird.
Speaker 1:It just seems the answer. It it's It just flattened out. Outdated. Yeah.
Speaker 2:April, like '24 or '25?
Speaker 1:No. '25.
Speaker 2:'25. Yeah. Okay. That actually makes a lot
Speaker 1:of sense. Mean, we're talking about like
Speaker 2:We're not gonna get into conspiracy theories, but that actually makes a lot of sense. Although we should do a whole episode just on conspiracy Wait
Speaker 1:a second. No. You gotta you gotta talk. Come on.
Speaker 2:I'm not getting into it. I'm still Please political. Don't need the we don't need the political riff here.
Speaker 1:This is not a politics podcast.
Speaker 2:No. Not this one. But the, you know, the the core here is how does it so like how does a business owner utilize this? Like what what are some ways you could do this for yourself?
Speaker 1:Yeah. So I mean this is sort of a tool tip ask pivot, but the idea is that you can use it as an interview simulator. And I think that that actually has
Speaker 2:Use what? Use Claude, I mean Claude in this case Use Claude,
Speaker 1:use ChatGPT, use Gemini, I know you're not liking them right now, but you know, I think that pick your LLM and you can simulate an interview. And then understand, know either simulate it as an interviewee or have it So how do do an interview
Speaker 2:guide. What the, yeah what would
Speaker 1:the stuff be? So the first thing is you know, copy and paste five to seven interview questions from your real job listings. Whatever you're trying to hire for. And then prompted say, ask me sequentially one question at a time. And as you get to the end of it, then you can have it provide you analysis on me as a respondent to those questions.
Speaker 1:Or conversely, have it provide analysis about the efficacy of the questions in order to get the right candidate for the job. So if you know the candidate that you're looking for, you can play both scenarios. Certainly improve your interview questions, but then also figure out who's gonna be the right kind of candidate for you to hire. Right. Okay.
Speaker 2:And, what what's the kind of final takeaway?
Speaker 1:Oh, for for me I I I think it's clearly that we should not have AI populating our towns for us.
Speaker 2:That's that was a completely separate article, but okay.
Speaker 1:No, I think that, you know, it's the it is I think the same message, which is that your superpower in this case has been delivered. You can use AI to augment the things that you're already good at. And if you are an HR professional, if you're a small business owner, and you're looking to make a new hire, you can use it in order to help refine your how you approach your applicant pool. You know, issuing better questions in an interview process. But you can also not just improve the questions, but you can see what the experience will be like for applicants.
Speaker 2:So should people, should business owners or hiring managers use these tools to hire people.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Or just f at Hire Claude.
Speaker 2:Because that's it. But really, should they use it? Oh, absolutely.
Speaker 1:Don't I you don't know.
Speaker 2:It seems that you take that human touch away.
Speaker 1:You know, I think that, you know, let's just put the words human touch aside for a second. That's think that, you know, I think that we are only as good as as we can be understanding that we have blind spots. And for me Is this
Speaker 2:like the royal way or you mean like us? Like literally us or the all of everyone?
Speaker 1:Well, mean me specifically. I know I have my I'm assuming I have my blind spots that if I knew them, they wouldn't be blind spots. I know my I know I've got them, and when I try and hire
Speaker 2:I'll you a list. Do you want me to give
Speaker 1:you a
Speaker 2:list of those? Go ahead. See me after class. Yeah. Exactly.
Speaker 2:A little caucus out there. Right?
Speaker 1:So, I I think that, you know, my if I were left to my own, and I were going to hire somebody, I may make the better or worser decisions I've ever made in the past, which sets me up for the same successes and failures. But if what I'm looking to do is hire the best candidate, here is how you can actually
Speaker 2:Don't get out make it discriminatory. Right? Don't, you know, don't make sure that it's shooting straight because it's easy to let tools like these automate your process but then also take out that human aspect.
Speaker 1:Mean, we're gonna have to hire a polarity soon. How would you use it for for our hiring process?
Speaker 2:We'd for use automated responses, for collecting the data, for for synthesizing and at least getting and I've done this with other I've already done this with other companies. And then streamlining out, the first, like, who makes it to the first round, really, of interviews. At least they get to that point. But I do think that human element still matters, at least today.
Speaker 3:This is AI made easy for business.