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Kevin Burrell is an Area Supervisor Scout for MLB's Chicago White Sox. Kevin discusses being a Christian in a secular place, he also talks about analytics vs conventional scouting, how he is a Minister disguised as a scout, and finally, he gives us baseball nerds a prospect to watch.
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Creators & Guests
What is The Rusty George Podcast?
Rusty George is the Lead Pastor at Crossroads Christian Church in Grand Prairie. Under his dedicated leadership, Crossroads Christian Church aspires to flourish as a vibrant community committed to guiding individuals in their journey to discover and follow the path of Jesus.
Beyond leading Crossroads Church, Rusty is a global speaker, leader and teacher focusing on making real life simple. Rusty has also written several books and can be heard weekly on his podcast, Leading Simple with Rusty George.
Aside from being a loyal Chiefs, Royals, and Lakers fan, Rusty is first and foremost committed to his family. Rusty has been married to his wife, Lorrie, for over twenty-five years, and they have two daughters, Lindsey and Sidney. As a family, they enjoy walking the dogs, playing board games together, and watching HGTV while Rusty watches ESPN on his iPad.
Rusty (00:00.49)
the impact that he's having and the legacy he's leaving. I pray for a good travel for him and that you protect him and his family and all this. And thanks for just letting us enjoy something like this incredible game and be able to learn from it as well. We pray this in your name. Amen.
Kevin Burrell (00:17.358)
Amen.
Rusty (00:19.326)
Well, Kevin Burrell, thank you so much for being back on the podcast. At the time we're recording this, we're winding down in spring training, getting ready for the beginning of the season. So, uh, for our new listeners, um, tell everybody just who you are in a nutshell and what it is you do.
Kevin Burrell (00:38.562)
Well, my name is Kevin Burrell and I'm an area scouting supervisor for the Chicago White Sox. I cover the state of Georgia, South Carolina, and Jacksonville, Florida. And this is my 33rd year in scouting. And yeah, so it's always been a fun time and it's a grind as well. So just keeping the pedal to the metal, certainly during the scouting season.
Rusty (01:07.67)
33 years, my goodness, you have seen a lot of changes in the game of baseball. I mean, that's living through the steroid era and all the craziness of that. And the rule changes over the last few years. I'm curious, when you look at players today versus what you would look for back then, I mean, obviously you're looking for the five tool basics, but...
Is there anything that you're looking at differently now as analytics changed all that? Or when you go out to a high school baseball park, do you still look for the same things?
Kevin Burrell (01:44.778)
Yeah, I think as a scout, you're always trying to scout in the utopia. So you're still evaluating those five tools, the hit and power, run, throw and field. Um, however, the analytics and the indoctrination of analytics now today, it really adds a different piece to it. Um, I've learned over the years, um, more analytics and it's been.
It's been a good thing, it's been a valuable thing to learn, but it's not a be-all end-all to the evaluation of scouting. It's just another piece of it. So our organization, which is a good thing, they really ask us scouts to not lose the evaluation with the eyes. But the analytics do come into play and they enhance.
Rusty (02:23.539)
Mm-hmm.
Kevin Burrell (02:42.646)
you know, the three legs of a player and just, you know, what type of makeup a kid has, his competitiveness, how the numbers and the analytics line up, and then how his physical tools line up. So those three legs are really important in the total evaluation of the player.
Rusty (02:58.934)
You know, I heard somebody say one time when I think it was Marty Lamb on this podcast. He says, I tend to watch them more in the dugout than I even do on the field. I want to know how they interact with their, you know, players and their teammates, coaches and all that. So is that, is that true for you as well? Is there, is there anything that you're looking for that beyond just how they perform on the field?
Kevin Burrell (03:21.246)
It is, it's, you know, when I met with a player and I'm going back a few years, I met with a player during the off season and he was a prospect I had interest in. And, you know, I go over a list of about 40 questions with these guys and meet with them either face to face or through video and, in evaluating this one particular prospect, he was a pitcher. And so he came off the field and.
Rusty (03:34.879)
Hmm.
Kevin Burrell (03:50.626)
He was obviously tired and had been pitching quite a time out there already. But this guy went over to the, I watched him in the dugout, he went over to the water cooler and he poured a glass of water and had a towel. And he walked it down to the end of the bench to one of his teammates that had just came off the field, an infielder. And he gave that-
infielder, a cup of water and a towel. And that told me right there a lot about what type of teammate this young man was. Um, and what type of heart he had to serve his teammates, um, that it wasn't just about himself because naturally he was tired and he was hot and sweaty. Um, somebody should have been serving him, but he flipped the script and walked down to the end of the dugout and brought that guy a cup of water and a towel.
Rusty (04:28.67)
Wow, that's big.
Kevin Burrell (04:49.838)
to help his teammates.
Rusty (04:51.814)
That's great. Well, I know that you work with a lot of Christian athletes, you work with a lot of Christian coaches and managers, you're part of some great Zoom call Bible studies with a bunch of managers and scouts and just great guys. Is there a way you encourage an athlete that might be different than the way you encourage somebody perhaps at a different type of job?
Uh, are there texts that you send to each other? Are there verses you share with each other that, uh, encourage an athlete or a coach? I'm just thinking about the, the people out there that are Christians that are, uh, you know, coaching a little league team or even a high school, uh, baseball team, or even another sport, you know, is there certain things that you've found? Boy, this really helps them and encourages them in their faith and in their, their practice.
Kevin Burrell (05:47.09)
Yeah, it's, you know, from the athlete standpoint, you know, these guys are dealing with, um, nowadays with social media, especially the more high profile athletes. And, um, at the end of the day, it's a, it's a results driven business on the field and, uh, they have to perform. Um, and so it's really important because it is a game of failure. If you fail seven out of 10 times, you're considered a great hitter. And, um, so.
Oftentimes, if I know the young man well and I know where he stands in his faith, he may have struggled that game. He may have had a difficult time at that particular start or maybe he struck out a couple of times in a game and just had a bad game. And so knowing the young man, and if I know his faith and his background, I will definitely reach out to him and encourage him. There's so many.
Rusty (06:20.17)
Kevin, we've got a bit of a glitch. I don't know if you can hear me.
Kevin Burrell (06:45.398)
people out in this game now that want to tear down these young men and focus on what they can't do instead of what they can do and who they are as a person. So I try to lean towards that direction.
Rusty (07:23.134)
Hmm. He might have.
Rusty (08:16.113)
There he is.
Rusty (08:26.823)
Hey buddy, welcome back.
Kevin Burrell (08:31.274)
the lovely world of IT.
Rusty (08:31.432)
Yeah, I know life on the road. Hey, let's just start over with your answer for that question. We'll just pick it up right there.
Kevin Burrell (08:40.395)
Okay. When these players, the athletes that is, they have a lot to what they're facing nowadays, especially these high profile guys with social media and so many publications and everything is finally evaluated and looked at and nitpicked over. So if I know the player and I know him well and
and know his background with his faith and have a good relationship with him. You know, maybe he had a tough game. Maybe he had a tough game on the mound or at the plate. So I will certainly text them or even sometimes call them and just offer a word of encouragement to him to just keep grinding forward. Hey, Roger Clemens had bad games and Nolan Ryan had bad games. So they're destined to have bad games. So I just try to, try to, sometimes I've left them, I prayed with them.
You know, especially the guys that I know them well, you know, I prayed for them. And, um, it's very appreciated on their, on their side. So, um, yeah, it's just, it's just a time because we live in this society now where, um, these guys are under a bubble and, um, you know, they're, they're trying to make progress, not live in this perfect world. And so, uh, um, so yeah, I just try to help them and encourage them, especially if I know I'm well.
Rusty (09:53.683)
Mm-hmm.
Rusty (10:06.186)
I think we forget that sometimes, um, in many cases, these players that you're dealing with are young adults. They're in their early to late twenties. Um, they're dealing with all the kinds of things that an average 25 year olds dealing with the added pressure of making millions of dollars or the desire to make millions of dollars or to make a roster or, you know, perform well and social media on top of that and constantly being scrutinized.
Uh, all the mental health statistics tell us that people are getting more and more nervous, anxious, depressed. Um, do you see that in your line of work as well? And are there things that are helpful for players, whether it's, hey, get off of social media or don't read the press as they used to say, um, that, that kind of, uh, help an athlete kind of get out of their own way.
Kevin Burrell (10:59.131)
Yeah, I see a lot of that nowadays, especially in the culture we live in, um, with these guys. So these young high school athletes or even, um, college athletes, they're just, they're kids. And so they're 17, 18, 19 year old high school kids. And you know, in college they're 21 and 22 years old, 23 years old. So, um, but they live in this bubble. They live with a microscope on them and especially the more high profile guys. Uh, the money's so big now. And, um,
Rusty (11:10.454)
Mm-hmm.
Kevin Burrell (11:28.555)
It's a lot of responsibility. It's a lot what they have to endure and what they have to process. So, um, I, I always, I don't know. I just take the, I take the approach to them that look, you're just human, man. You're going to make mistakes. You're going to fail. I'm on your side. I'm, I'm pulling for you. You got, you know, at least one scout that's, that's there for you to try to help you. I'm always here for you if you need me and just try to approach it that way.
Rusty (11:55.698)
Hmm. What a great, what a great piece of advice for all of our coaches out there helping, you know, young kids just play the game. Okay. Let me ask you this because there are people out there that are Christians and they're, they're coaching a baseball team or they're even leading at work in a normal nine to five job and they're Christians, but they would love to share their faith with coworkers or in your case with fellow athletes that
aren't Christians, but it kind of gets into an interesting area there. How do you encourage managers or even players to share their faith with others without overstepping their bounds?
Kevin Burrell (12:38.631)
Well, I'll just take my profession. So with coaches, I felt like a few years ago, a handful of years ago, there was a real need for coaches to be able to leverage their influence as a coach. And so, because as Billy Graham, I think once said, a coach is gonna influence more people in one year than the average person will in a lifetime. So.
They have a great amount of influence. They really, a lot of them don't know how to leverage that influence. They don't know the power of their influence. So, you know, there was a need, I felt like some years ago, about five years ago. And so basically myself and another pastor and a couple of guys, we just started an online Zoom weekly Bible study discussion discipleship group really for...
coaches, baseball coaches. And, you know, we started with just a handful of guys, of four or five guys. And then, you know, it's developed into 95 to 100 guys every week that are on here. And so, you know, we try to teach them and train them and help them develop these skills to be able to live out their faith and be able to share Christ and be able to be bold about it, you know?
Rusty (13:36.756)
Mm-hmm.
Kevin Burrell (14:04.931)
and live it out, how to live it out. You know, what are some steps to that? What does that look like for them as a coach? So, yeah, it's really important that, you know, we challenge these guys to do that, you know, as an influential coach.
Rusty (14:05.169)
Mm-hmm.
Rusty (14:23.358)
Have there been some coaches in your past or even some, maybe some books that you've read or some people that you've learned from that you don't even know that have influenced you over the years that you could share with us?
Kevin Burrell (14:36.007)
Yeah, I mean, not too many, honestly, quite honestly, not too many Christian coaches that I've really had that really took that step or that took that stand. I will say there was a book that I read several years ago and it was, it was as a power, one of the best leadership books I've read. It was called Leading for God's sake, Lead for God's sake. And so it is a great book.
Rusty (14:42.42)
Hmm.
Rusty (15:01.398)
That's a great book.
Kevin Burrell (15:05.635)
just really about the heart of a coach, what that should look like. Do you coach with the heart or do you coach with a hatchet and how you lead? So that was a really, really good book just to read and go through. But really, for me personally, I didn't really understand the influence I had as a scout until I...
Rusty (15:12.86)
Mm-hmm.
Kevin Burrell (15:34.363)
really learn how to be become a disciple quite honestly. I knew that I knew that being a disciple was important. I had no idea how to be one. And so I never understood how to make a disciple. And so when I when I finally grasped and understood that, you know, I am I am just a scout. It's what I am. It's what I do. But I'm
I'm a minister in disguise as a scout. That's the way I try to put it. And so I try to teach these coaches or even teach these athletes that look, you're, if you're a Christian, you're, you're a minister first in disguise as an athlete or in the size as a coach. That's what you do and how you leverage that and how you, um, your methodology of implementing that and being an influence to others around you. Um, there's different ways to that. There's different methods to that.
Rusty (16:18.166)
Mm-mm.
Rusty (16:28.882)
Mm-hmm.
Kevin Burrell (16:32.307)
But at the end of the day, that's what you are. You're a kingdom building coach or you're a kingdom building athlete. And so for me, that was a big turning point in my life personally for me because I really never understood how to be a disciple. I knew it was important to be a disciple. I didn't know how to. And so that really helped me in my personal life.
Rusty (16:53.514)
Mm-hmm.
Rusty (16:58.826)
I love that you went there and I'd love to ask you how you would define that. Because I think we all, we all say similar things when it comes to what a disciple is, but I'm always curious to hear how people sum it up because it often helps clarity for a lot of us. When you're explaining to a player who's, you know, a person of faith, but yet they're not necessarily living it out. Um, how do you define a disciple? How do you communicate that to somebody, especially, uh,
uh, somebody in baseball.
Kevin Burrell (17:30.119)
Yeah. So, um, for me, the way I, the way I define it is simply the fruits of the spirit. So, um, it's talking about the character of Christ. The character of Christ was the nine fruits of the spirit. So, um, you know, how am I living out my character every day out here? Am I showing love? Am I, do I have joy? Do I have peace? Do I have gentleness? Do I have kindness? Do I have faithfulness? Do I have self control?
Rusty (17:37.47)
Hmm, that's good.
Rusty (17:51.471)
Mm-hmm.
Kevin Burrell (17:59.199)
I mean, all these fruits of the spirit, that is the character of Christ. And so that's the way I like to look at myself and I'm evaluating myself daily. Hey, how am I doing in this here? I feel like I got these nine plates spinning and this one down here might be wobbling. This one might be here at a high speed and I need to pay attention to all of those nine plates. And so.
Rusty (18:04.896)
Mm-hmm.
Kevin Burrell (18:27.271)
I'm constantly evaluating myself on those nine fruits of the Spirit, which are the character of Christ. It was the character of Christ. It is the character of Christ. So, and then the conduct of Christ, you know, is how he lived his life out. You know, he was a good manager. He was a good steward. He prioritized the message. He prioritized large group and small group.
Rusty (18:38.002)
I love that.
Kevin Burrell (18:56.519)
Um, there's, there's so many areas of his life that, that was the con, the daily conduct, the way he lived out his life. So I have a grid I keep in my phone, um, of the seven attributes of conduct. And how am I living those out in my personal life? And how am I living those out in my scouting and professional life?
Rusty (19:05.368)
Mm-hmm.
Rusty (19:19.338)
Could you share that with us? What's on that grid?
Kevin Burrell (19:22.889)
Sure.
Rusty (19:24.542)
I love this because I think a lot of us tend to look at items like you just mentioned, uh, whether it's these seven, uh, conduct checkpoints or even the fruit of the spirit. And we kind of, we kind of look like it, we look at it like it's a, a personality test where we say, oh yeah, I'm, this is who I am, but I'm not these others. In other words, I really good with, uh, you know, self control, but I'm not really good with kindness or whatever. And it's not really kind of a pick and choose thing, right? It's one of.
It's not a buffet.
Kevin Burrell (19:56.475)
Exactly. And let me pull it up here. So this is the way I try to... Can you see me okay still? This is the way I try to look at it and that just from the conduct of Christ and how am I, this grid that I live by. So one is a member. Am I belonging to my local church? Do I belong to a local church? Do I make that a priority? Second one is a magnifier.
Rusty (20:05.199)
I can, yeah.
Rusty (20:22.256)
That's good.
Kevin Burrell (20:27.743)
How am I doing in spending time worshiping God in private and in public? Thirdly, as a minister, am I meeting the needs of people in my local community, in my baseball community, and in my local church? And then the fourth one is maturing, which is growing. Am I spending time with God, growing in my fellowship, in my faith with Him, through reading, studying His Word, and in prayer?
And then the next one is manager stewardship. Am I managing my time, my calendar, my gifts, my relationships, my treasure, and my temple in a God-honoring way? And then a messenger, which is sharing, am I seeking out opportunities to share God's message of love and salvation with others, inviting someone to church, someone to a small group? How am I doing in the baseball coaches and scouts group? And then the.
Last one is a multiplier reproducing. Am I reproducing and multiplying more disciples with the life and time I've been given here on earth? And am I making disciples that make disciples? So that's the grid that I work from that I believe is that all those conducts, all those priorities were a priority in Jesus' life. A member, a magnifier, a minister, he was maturing, a manager, a messenger, and a multiplier.
those were, that was the conduct of Christ. And so I'm constantly trying to look at and evaluate, you know, how am I doing in these areas personally and professionally?
Rusty (22:06.358)
That's a great list. Thank you for sharing that with us. I'm curious about, you know, you deal with a lot of, you know, prospects and kids that want to make it to the show, want to play baseball for a living. How do you encourage a player to, you know, play hard, use the gifts God has given you, maximize your opportunities, but don't make baseball or your career your god?
How do you help them kind of develop some wisdom there as you coach them or even give them advice?
Kevin Burrell (22:42.251)
Yeah. Well, you know, so many of these guys nowadays, and it's rare, especially for these young players nowadays that are amateur guys, the high school kids or the college kids, when they figure it out, you know, and it's not many that do, not many that do, but I never, for me, I never try to offer that advice unless they ask it. And so...
Um, I just encourage them, look, you know, your family is important. Your time with God is important that your time with God is, is the most important. And I try to share that with them. Your time with your family is a priority. That's so important. Um, this list of baseball at the end of the day, when you're 40 years old, it's not going to make a hilla beans difference. So, um, you know, I, I tried to honestly. Help them.
keep it simple and not get too bogged down in the weeds of it, that this game becomes their life. It becomes their identity. It becomes who they are, for good or bad. And so I do try to offer them wisdom when they ask. I don't want to just lamb blast it with them or pour it on them if it's not asked. But yeah, I'm constantly trying to.
Rusty (23:51.761)
Mm-hmm.
Kevin Burrell (24:08.595)
Especially when you have a relationship. Cause I, I believe at the end of the day, ministry and anything we do is built around relationships. It is all about relationships. And if you don't have a relationship, if I don't have a relationship with a coach or an athlete, it's tough to speak into their life. You know, it really is. It's tough to speak in because you, you have to earn, you have to earn their trust and you have to earn their respect. And that takes time. It takes time.
Rusty (24:17.36)
Mm-hmm.
Rusty (24:25.686)
Mm-hmm.
Rusty (24:37.01)
Well, this is, man, it's been really helpful, even if, you know, some of our listeners are not baseball fans. I think that they would certainly get a lot out of just the discipleship side of this. But let's talk a little bit about baseball because you've got a new season coming up here. Everybody's optimistic at the beginning of the year. Everybody's zero and zero. And so they feel like we got a shot at this thing. What are you thinking about the White Sox this year? That's your club. That's who you work with. I mean, how are you feeling? Is this a rebuilding year? Is this a
Hey, we could maybe make a run at, uh, you know, making the playoffs or is this a, Hey, we're all in and we're going to win a world series.
Kevin Burrell (25:15.856)
Yeah, I mean, we lost 100 games last year. So whenever that happens, there are always change. And it's been really good change. I wouldn't call it a rebuild. I would say maybe more retool. And our current general manager, Chris Getz, has come in and done a wonderful job thus far and just really implemented a plan for the organization, the direction it's going.
has really cast good vision as we know vision leaks all the time. So he's constantly offering and challenging with vision. And so it's been really good. It's been a refresh and a retool. And I'm excited about the direction that we're going and what all that looks like in the future.
Rusty (26:08.01)
That's great. Any players we should keep an eye on, on the white socks that boy that they're pretty talented but they might be under the radar.
Kevin Burrell (26:21.264)
We have a young shortstop that's coming up through our system named Colson Montgomery that's a really good player. He's a young player, he was a high school draft, a former first round pick. And he's got a chance to be a really special player. And it'll be interesting just to see how he develops and how he progresses, especially when he gets to the big leagues. You know, there's that fine line, I was talking with a former, just another scout.
the other day that we were just talking about players and, you know, when to bring them up and when not to bring them up. Because that's really important. You know, if you bring a guy up too soon, it can impact him negatively. And then on the flip side, if you wait too long, it can impact him in a negative way. So there's a timing mechanism there when to elevate the player, when to call him up and, you know, when to make sure that he's ready to go.
you know, and when he comes up there, he stays up there.
Rusty (27:20.662)
Hmm. Yeah. That it is a lot more art than science sometimes, isn't it? Well, listen, Kevin, this has been very, uh, encouraging, insightful, uh, and always fun, uh, to hang out with you. And I know you're busy. You're on the road right now. You're watching players. You're getting ready for the season. A lot of your work has done in the off season, but, uh, I'm just really grateful for you spending some time with us. And I've always appreciated just the way that you, uh, carry yourself and the way that you lead. Uh.
And you're always been a very big encouragement to me as well. So thank you for being a friend of the show and I'll cheer for the white socks as long as they're not playing my Royals even though we're in the same division, Hey, I know what it's like to lose a hundred games. So we've been there for awhile. Uh, but all the best to you, my friend. Thank you so much.
Kevin Burrell (28:07.967)
Thanks, Rusty. Have a great day.