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Welcome to "This is Health, Wealth, and the Pursuit of Happiness" your source for insightful discussions with economist and author, Dr. Murray Sabrin. Join us as we challenge convention, expand minds, and pursue truth.
Welcome to This is Health Wealth and the Pursuit of Happiness, your source for insightful discussions with economist and author, Doctor. Sabrin. Join us as we challenge convention, expand minds, and pursue truth.
Dr. Murray Sabrin:Welcome to Health Wealth and the Pursuit of Happiness. I'm Murray Sabrin, BA, MA, PhD. There's no BS in my background, never have and never will be. And joining us today from Southwest Florida is Doctor. Joseph Sansone.
Dr. Murray Sabrin:And before I introduce, Doctor. Sansone, I wanna remind you, I'm also the founder of the Make Americans Financial Independent Movement, mafiausa.com. That's mafiausa.com. Please visit and learn all about how to make the American people financial independent again. It's a great pleasure that I have doctor Joseph Sansone with us today.
Dr. Murray Sabrin:Joe and I have known each other, I guess, for about twenty five years when we were both surfs make that residence of the state of New Jersey where taxes are high, property taxes are through the roof, and they just keep on spending our money. But today, Joe is gonna tell us about his work in a field that is very important given the state of the American people's outlook and situation. Joe is a psychotherapist and hypnotherapist. He has a BA in psychology and MS in clinical mental health counseling and a PhD in psychology. Joe has been a resident of Florida for about twenty five years.
Dr. Murray Sabrin:And so, with that introduction, we're gonna talk about something that is, near and dear to every family in America, given, the mental health outlook that people have today. So, Joe, please let us know exactly what you do as a psychotherapist and how does psychotherapy compare to psychiatry and psychology.
Dr. Joe Sansone:Well, first of all, Doctor. Sabrin, appreciate coming on on your maiden voyage here. So before I get into what I do, I guess first we'll talk about the difference between psychotherapy, psychology, and psychiatry. So psychiatrists are medical doctors. So they are dealing mainly with medication management.
Dr. Joe Sansone:They used to do therapy as well. Some of them, you'll come across one or two here and there to actually still do therapy with clients. But most of the psychiatrists are doing medication management, managing the antidepressants, antipsychotics, that kind of thing. Psychotherapy is just a fancy way to say therapy. So psychotherapy just means talk therapy.
Dr. Joe Sansone:So psychologists, licensed mental health counselors like me, licensed clinical social workers, and licensed marriage and family therapists all do therapy or psychotherapy. Now, there are going to be some differences. When you go to a psychologist, they're going to rely a lot more on assessments. So they're kind of grounded a little bit more than that. Most of your psychologists have most of them are PsyDs today because it's easier to get into those programs than the PhD programs.
Dr. Joe Sansone:They're kind of harder and harder to get into for clinical psychology. So I call myself a psychotherapist because my PhD is in psychology, so technically I'm a psychologist, but I'm not a licensed psychologist. So that's why I just say, like I say, I'm a psychotherapist opposed to psychopathic authoritarianism, as you know, which is a lot. Is that clear? Did I explain that well?
Dr. Murray Sabrin:Absolutely. So give us some background as what was your specific training? What programs did you go through? What sort of issues did you deal with in sort of your clinical training?
Dr. Joe Sansone:So yeah, if you want to become a therapist or counselor or psychotherapist, however you want to pronounce it, you got a few different tracks. Let's leave off the psychiatrist over here because that's a medical doctor. It's a different training. But most psychology programs, first you're going have to get your bachelor's degree, and then you're going to go into a PhD program or a PsyD program. Increasingly, most psychologists are going into PsyD programs, which is just a doctor of psychology instead of philosophy.
Dr. Joe Sansone:And it's just you're paying for it. In the past, you get into these programs and you would kind of teach and then you'd for you wouldn't be paying for the education, but that's harder and harder to get into. So you're either going to go for a PhD or a PsyD program. So those programs are a little harder to get into for psychologists. Only difference practically, like in most states, like for instance, in Florida, licensed and married family therapists, licensed mental health counselors, and licensed clinical social workers are all under the same kind of board here in Florida.
Dr. Joe Sansone:And similar in other states. But they can all do psychotherapy and in our scope of practice, psychotherapy, clinical hypnosis, and so on. So it's basically the same scope of practice as a psychologist. Psychologists are going to bill insurance more and they are going to rely more on assessments, like an MMPI, like the Minnesota Multiphasic Inventory, that kind of thing. Now, so to become a therapist, so you got to get your bachelor's and then PhD program if you want to be a psychologist.
Dr. Joe Sansone:Otherwise, you're looking at a master's degree. You're going to do your bachelor's degree, and then you're going do a master's degree in either a licensed clinical mental health counseling, licensed clinical social worker, or licensed marriage and family therapist. There's less marriage and family therapists. The mental health programs are growing more. They were a little behind the clinical work, like the social workers, but they're they're a little bit more behind.
Dr. Joe Sansone:So, obviously, social workers are a little more grounded in the case management type stuff, whereas the, you know, mental health counselor might be a little more clinical, but it's all the same stuff. Basically, you're going through your educational process, you're going to need a master's degree and then you're to have to do your internship and then you're going to do a two years. Once you're done, you graduate, you do like a couple of states call it a provisional licensure, but most of them it's called like a registered intern, like a registered mental health counselor intern or a registered clinical social worker intern. And that's a two year period where you're going to be working for someone else, either in a treatment center or private practice, and you do everything. You diagnose and treat mental health disorders, but you have to do supervision once a week with a therapist who's a qualified supervisor.
Dr. Joe Sansone:There's a little bit of a it's like a slow process. Something that could be condensed into one year with a one year internship, and they found a way to make it like, you know, seven years with a two year internship. But most therapists, you're going to get a certain amount of exposure to different clinical approaches. Then once you start your internships, you're actually doing real stuff. Most people, I think, they'll tell you that once they started their internship, that's when they like, kinda learned a lot more.
Dr. Joe Sansone:Does that make sense, what I'm saying?
Dr. Murray Sabrin:Absolutely. I just wanna remind our audience that the reason we're doing this podcast is to improve your health, both physical and mental, to increase your wealth, and which will help you pursue your happiness. That's what America's all about. Happiness, independence, community, and that's the goal of this podcast. And hopefully you'll be tuning in every week where we bring experts on, and Joe is a great expert on psychotherapy.
Dr. Murray Sabrin:So let's get into some of the specifics. What type of issues do you see in your practice that may relate to what people are watching today in terms of what issues do people have that you've been treating over the past few years?
Dr. Joe Sansone:So in private practice, you deal with a wide variety of issues. And so when you're asking that question, I want you to think level of care. So you've got like inpatient treatment facilities, and you got kind of the intensive outpatient and then outpatient, then you got private practice. So I'm at the private practice level. So my clients in general are going to be more functional.
Dr. Joe Sansone:In fact, some of my clients are highly successful people. I'll get to what I do specifically more, but in general, you're going to have a lower level of care in private practice. So you're going to be dealing with people with kind of everyday problems, some of what you're alluding to. So when you see The thing is, too, now, in my case, I am outside of the insurance model. Like, I don't take insurance.
Dr. Joe Sansone:And so my clientele might be a little different because of that, Because the truth is, is a lot of mental health issues and physical health issues are indirectly related to economic insecurity. You know, even if it takes ten or twenty years for the issues to develop because your quality of life isn't as good, so you're not having the self care, whether it's physical or emotional. So that can sometimes happen. Now, me, I deal with anything from people coming to me to improve their golf game, to improving their business performance, to trauma, anxiety, depression, and so on. So I deal with kind of a wide spectrum of issues.
Dr. Joe Sansone:Sometimes I get people with quasi sometimes doctors will send people to me with some issues, as long as they know I'm adjunct and I'm not a medical doctor.
Dr. Murray Sabrin:Joe, if dealing with people with golf issues, I think Tom Woods, Tiger Woods would be a great patient of yours since he's got a lot of issues, obviously, with his driving situation.
Dr. Joe Sansone:I don't know if you know or not, if you're making a joke about it or not, but he actually, as a teenager, was trained in self hypnosis for golf. Interesting. Yeah, yeah. So he actually apparently, he might need to come back in. I want royalties though, if I
Dr. Murray Sabrin:do that. So
Dr. Joe Sansone:I specialize in clinical hypnosis, as you just said. So I'm a psychotherapist. I specialize in clinical hypnosis. I'm also a contingent education provider, so haven't I been doing training since my health hasn't been that good, but I can actually train other therapists in clinical hypnosis. So because of that, I'm a little more maybe solution focused.
Dr. Joe Sansone:So you've got two polarities in therapy. You got your more insight orientated approach and then your more solution focused approach. So your insight orientated approach goes more to like those psychodynamic approaches. Like, you think of like the Freudian type stuff, you know, what happened when I was a kid, this and that. And you gain some insights and then it's like letting go of a anchor.
Dr. Joe Sansone:It's like gravity being lifted and you move on. Sometimes that happens. A lot of times it doesn't though. Like I remember when I worked in a treatment center, like a drug and alcohol treatment center with co occurring disorders. I mean, lot of the patients there, they the DSM better than I did, like the Diagnostic Statistical Manual.
Dr. Joe Sansone:I look at that thing once a year, but they knew every disorder and every aspect of it, but they didn't change a lot of them. And then so your more solution focused approach is like, you look at what works, you expound on that and you keep doing that. And then you look back three, four years later and like, Oh, that's why I used to do that. And so I kind of blend those approaches. And so you've got different kind of So you got your psychodynamic kind of stuff, which is like the, you know, the Fortnite stuff.
Dr. Joe Sansone:We've got your childhood, that kind of thing. Cognitive behavioral therapy is very big, looking at your thoughts and, beliefs and changing your emotions and behaviors as a result, your more behavioral therapy stuff. A lot of this is, you got gestalt therapy, which is a little hard to define actually, in my view, because it seems evolving to me. Then you got I remember one of my professors said years ago, Nothing new has been invented under the sun. And so what happens is people tend to come up with a little splinter off of a previous theory and they kind of come up with their own new theory or new approach.
Dr. Joe Sansone:Let's say acceptance and commitment therapy, act therapy. A lot of that is basically taking mindfulness techniques and letting go of your resistance to somebody who's uncomfortable physical sensations and so on, and kind of helping you relieve them. I'm not knocking it, I'm just saying it's not exactly a totally new thing. And so a lot of these theories are repackaging ideas that have been out there. So I personally have a more eclective or integrative approach.
Dr. Joe Sansone:So I kind of draw a little bit from all different aspects. And that's partly from the talk therapy aspect, but also because I focus in clinical hypnosis because hypnosis is a good standalone treatment, but it's also a very good adjunct. I can help impact other things people are doing. But it's also a good host therapy. I can take any technique and use it in the hypnotic trance state or any therapeutic approach.
Dr. Joe Sansone:So it's a little more versatile than what people think. And so, I focused on more of an integrative approach. And I think most therapists do, although you might lean more heavily on some other stuff. So when I structure my sessions, I basically put people about two hours apart and I do about a half hour to an hour with the talk therapy component and then forty five minutes to an hour with the hypnosis. So my average session would be an hour and a half, hour and forty five minutes, sometimes longer.
Dr. Murray Sabrin:Given that, Joe, when someone comes to see you, I guess either through referrals or they Google and see exactly who in the area that they are living in could help them with some issue that they have. The question is, what do you initially do with a patient that comes to you for the first time and they say, I have an anxiety issue, I have a depression issue, and how would you evaluate them?
Dr. Joe Sansone:So when they fill out my forms, have an intake form where they'll put like all their info on there. I don't do a structured assessment because I actually do not really diagnose. And it's kind of an ethical thing. There's obviously most people diagnose, but the reason most people diagnose is because they have to do it to get paid by insurance. And there's a few blanket diagnoses you can use to get paid by insurance, like an adjustment disorder.
Dr. Joe Sansone:And so you lost your job, you're getting divorced, whatever, and you label it as an adjustment disorder, and get insurance to pay so many things. The reason I don't actually diagnose also is because if you identify too strongly with a disorder, how are you gonna change? And so I'm more solution focused in that sense. And I think it's a challenge because I'll sometimes get because everything I do is words. I mean, literally I'm throwing sound vibrate it's one of the challenges people have with hypnosis.
Dr. Joe Sansone:Nobody can really explain the mechanism. I'm throwing sound vibrations at you, and that could literally make physical changes in you in some cases. You know, so look, got a
Dr. Murray Sabrin:No. I'm just I'm just curious because, this is fascinating to a layman like myself, and people who are trying to figure out how do I overcome some of the issues that I'm facing either on a day to day basis, either at work or in their family life, in in social interaction. And so I'm trying to figure out what you would do if someone says, I've got this drinking problem? And do you try to find out why they have the drinking problem, or do you just stick with the drinking problem that they have?
Dr. Joe Sansone:Well, so when someone comes to me so I want you to keep in mind, what I do is a little out of the box. Now I know Doctor. Peter Bragan, who's a well known psychiatrist, he also does not diagnose. But I mean, what I do is a little bit out of the box because I specialize in clinical hypnosis. And so my approach is a little different on a lot of levels.
Dr. Joe Sansone:So let's say my ideal protocol for people who can do it is six weeks. And my logic there excuse me. My logic there is I get you a month with the new conditioning. Like even because I'm not like the type of therapist where people will come to every other week for two years or something like that. They're coming to me more shorter term, kind of they're doing better, then off they go.
Dr. Joe Sansone:And even my long term clients will come to me maybe every few months or a couple of times a year, that kind of thing, or just as something new happens or if they feel like they want to reinforce. Because sometimes with hypnosis too, I should say, like with what I specialize in, you deal with unrealistic expectations. So you live your whole life one way and you expect one or two sessions to fix everything. Literally nobody else would go to another therapist and expect that. And so it's like, I can't ethically guarantee results to clients, but the reality is I see improvement with everybody.
Dr. Joe Sansone:The question is just how much? And then are they willing to put some time in to work on changing more? So with, say, anxiety, that's kind of an easier one. Again, look at level of care. If it's somebody that needs to be an inpatient, what I'm saying doesn't really apply because they need to get a little more stable.
Dr. Joe Sansone:Know what I'm saying? With anxiety, because hypnosis is a very relaxed state to begin with when you're putting someone in a trance state. So, I mean, you're walking out of my office like with a smile on feeling good. The thing is with anxiety is, what I do is I don't know if I invented this expression or if it's a New Jersey expression, but I hit people eight ways, sideways. With anxiety, depression, anger, that kind of thing, I'm literally giving people suggestions while they're in the hypnotic trance state to be more cognitively flexible, more fluid with their thought patterns.
Dr. Joe Sansone:Because usually when we're worrying, we're angry, we're depressed, we're anxious, we're thinking the same way over and over again about the same things. Right. So getting people to be more because so the hypnotic trance state itself is a very creative state. So I piggyback off that and use that to try to get people to be more fluid and flexible with your thought patterns. But I got to say, one of the challenges you deal with therapy in general is learned helplessness.
Dr. Joe Sansone:I mean, we see this in all areas of our society, but what I do is quicker and more effective than other approaches, in my opinion. All things being equal, it's usually quicker. But still, if I have somebody who's totally stuck in the identity of the learned helplessness, that's still very difficult because you have to want to change. And that's the challenge with mental health issues, and that's why I don't get too big into the diagnosis thing because if I'm identifying with this disorder, how am I going to change? And it's difficult because most disorders aren't quite as biologically based, like schizophrenia, bipolar disorder, they're more biologically based, but a lot of the other disorders, you know, they're not quite as strong biologically wise.
Dr. Joe Sansone:And then the other thing is we get into the environmental factors affecting biology. So it's like, you know, it's a little challenging in that respect. But yeah, anxiety is something I work with a lot. And then of course, there's this idea that your subconscious mind has all the answers as well. So a lot of times I can give people targeted direct suggestions to deal with.
Dr. Joe Sansone:So you're coming in to talk to me. I'm taking from our conversation what you're telling me and that's going to get recycled back into the hypnoticization that's going to follow. So I'll take things from our conversation and do it that way. But there's also this idea that your subconscious mind has all the answers. And so I can literally give you suggestions.
Dr. Joe Sansone:Let's say you're struggling with a business dilemma or something, or even if it's something dealing with anxiety, I can literally give you suggestions to develop healthier coping strategies over the days, weeks and months ahead. Because basically you're relying on anxiety as a coping strategy.
Dr. Murray Sabrin:Yeah. What type of issues since COVID? Because from what I've read is that people's anxiety, depression has increased markedly, especially among young people when they weren't, socializing. They weren't going to school. They weren't interacting with their peers.
Dr. Murray Sabrin:So what type of issues have you seen since COVID?
Dr. Joe Sansone:I mean, a wide spectrum of issues. I think that COVID has created one I mean, so what's that 2020? That's six years ago. I think COVID created like a underlying anxiety that you see with a lot of people because a lot of people fear death. This is anecdotal, I don't have studies to back this up, but my view is that people generally have a stronger fear of death in their late teens to early 20s when they're kind of leaving the nest and you're losing that security blanket of your parents kind of thing.
Dr. Joe Sansone:And then also later in life, some people, becomes a bigger issue. And I think that that's how with COVID, they were able to manipulate so many people as they really use that fear of death on people. And so that in itself, like constantly throwing death at people, is going to create anxiety, right? Then you had this idea that your government is that evil, that it betrayed you and locked you down, of course, didn't get the shots and the face mask, all this stuff. And so that in itself is tough because it's like, let's say if I believed I lived in a country where my government was obviously, you and I are skeptical of government in general, but people may not have thought it was that evil.
Dr. Joe Sansone:Know I mean? Okay, so we have perspective that, yeah, government is evil, but it's a necessary evil. But what we've dealt with is pure psychopathic authoritarianism. So that's hard because people have to realize that what you believed in your whole life was BS. And that alone, I think, creates a little bit of a dissonance, a cognitive dissonance internally.
Dr. Joe Sansone:Sure. And there's guilt associated with that. A lot of people coerced their their friends and families to get the shots like if you don't get the shots, you can't see your grandkids or vice versa. You know that kind of thing. A lot of people were coerced by their employers to get the shots and that kind of thing.
Dr. Joe Sansone:So there's a lot of regrets, lot of guilt, think. I think there's a lot of resentment and anger, even if people can't pinpoint what the cause of it is. That was a major disruption in people's lives.
Dr. Murray Sabrin:Joe, you said something that I want to follow-up with, because I think it's fascinating given the patients that you're seeing. You said you have many, some very successful people as patients. And I think the perception of mental health issues is that usually come from lower income, middle income people who have financial anxiety, health anxiety. So what are some of the issues that very successful people have that you're helping them deal with?
Dr. Joe Sansone:Well, first of all, I actually, because of the level of care that I'm at, if I were in a treatment center, I'd be referring to them as patients. At this level of care, I refer to them as clients. Only literally because of what you're talking about, there is a stigma to being a mental health patient. And know, and I think a lot of therapists do that because, you know, there's a stigma to that. Sure.
Dr. Joe Sansone:You know, and it's not necessarily, you know, right. Although in some ways, it's reasonable because if you or I are sitting here at a restaurant, we're talking or we're waiting in line somewhere, you start talking to me and you get a vibe that I'm like, There's something wrong with me mentally. In a self protective way, you kind of step back. And so I think that's part of what feeds into the stigma with mental health issues. But obviously, people of all backgrounds have mental health issues.
Dr. Joe Sansone:So, I mean, relationship issues. And first of all, down here in Florida, it's maybe different than other parts of the country because people don't stop living after they're 50. And so I'll sometimes get people, and especially in some of these gated communities, you've got people that are divorced or widowed. I'll sometimes get people in their 70s coming to me to the same relationship type issues people in their 20s have. And so it's an interesting it's just an interesting phenomenon.
Dr. Joe Sansone:But look, it's like when they talk about economics, like everybody's just broke at a different lifestyle. It's the same thing with the mental health issues. I'll give you an example. Your golf game is slumping. Would that cause you a lot of anxiety?
Dr. Joe Sansone:Probably not. Me neither. But if you excuse me. If you're a big golfer and you retired to Florida and you're living in a golf course community, like in a gated community, and your whole social network is involved in your golf friends and stuff like that, and they're pretty competitive. And as you're getting older, your game starting to slip a little bit.
Dr. Joe Sansone:A lot of times I get people coming to me the reason I want to improve their golf games because they're afraid they're gonna get dumped. So I'm dealing with the anxiety to of getting pushed out of social groups. So that's something I would have never contemplated until I was working with those people. So I'm gonna say I deal with the same type of issues that you would at as any other private practice. I just maybe don't deal with as many intense situations that are intense maybe where you are gonna need inpatient, that kind of thing.
Dr. Joe Sansone:But I deal with the anxiety, the depression. Any I mean, because if anybody look, people that are wealthier have problems with their kids being addicts just like anybody else. Yeah. Or whatever. Family every family's dysfunctional to some degree.
Dr. Joe Sansone:You know, the question is just how much, you know? You got those type of issues. Yeah, I deal with I mean, if you name it, I'd probably deal with it. You know, it's it's come across. I like the variety actually.
Dr. Murray Sabrin:Let me ask you another question because there was an article in the local paper about a woman who was suffering some physical issues, or I should say mental issues. She was depressed after having a baby, and she finally was diagnosed as having an autoimmune disease. So the question I have for you as a psychotherapist, do you ever deal with the primary care physicians of your clients to see if there's anything physically wrong with them that may be related their come to see you?
Dr. Joe Sansone:I don't have as much direct interaction with their primary care physician. Sometimes their primary care physicians will refer them to me. Okay. Or vice versa. I might say like, Hey, you know what?
Dr. Joe Sansone:I'm not a medical doctor, but it sounds like you could maybe be having something going on with your thyroid. Why don't you go to this doctor? She's real good with diagnosis and see if she can find something. So I'll do that as well. But yeah, back in the I know Linus Pauling, who a lot of people might know him from doing in the early '70s, doing his studies with cancer with high dose vitamin C infusions, which a couple months ago, a new study came out showing that that reduces mortality with pancreatic cancer patients by like fifty three percent.
Dr. Joe Sansone:And that's a very, as you know, a very strict diagnosis. So Linus Paul and I, I think Doctor. David R. Hawkins, a late psychiatrist, had a book on author molecular psychiatry. And so, this is not a new idea that vitamins and nutrition stuff could affect depression and mental health issues.
Dr. Joe Sansone:And so that's why sometimes a more holistic approach is good because sometimes people's depression could literally be from a vitamin deficiency.
Dr. Murray Sabrin:So that's an interesting point. So the question is, how much do you delve into a client's physical situation to see if there's a relationship between their physical well-being and their mental health?
Dr. Joe Sansone:I don't dive too much into that because I don't want to get into the medical stuff. I don't want anybody to accuse me of playing medical doctor. So I'll refer out if that's an issue. I have an intake form, so it might come up on that because I ask what medications are on that kind of thing. And I read that article and I'm always weary of people that come up with they want to have a template.
Dr. Joe Sansone:So that's the psychopathic authoritarian masquerading when they kind of let's try to fix everything type thing. Even when you because I read that article and it's like, Okay, but they want to do this stuff and have biomarkers for this, this, this, that, but that could all be weaponized against me too. I don't know if I want anybody to have these biomarkers on me. I want you to think of this. On the macro level, we call it behavior.
Dr. Joe Sansone:On the micro level, we call it biology. And so everything you eat, everything you're exposed to is going to affect your biology and your behavior. Guess what? Your environmental factors influence of things you're dealing with and how you react to those things are going to affect your biology. You and I could be exposed to the same event.
Dr. Joe Sansone:You could think it's not a big deal to me. It could traumatize the heck out of me, and I could literally develop an anxiety disorder from it or worse.
Dr. Murray Sabrin:Well, Levin, I ask you this because you're not an MD. You don't use medication in your practice. So the data show that, and this incredible, one out of six adults in America are taking antidepressants. And so the question is, what's your thought about this? Since people have issues, how do you feel about people taking antidepressants as opposed to doing what you do, which is a non drug approach to mental health issues?
Dr. Joe Sansone:So I am very skeptical. However, if somebody comes to me and they're on antidepressants, I don't tell them to go off them. They got to do that with their doctor. I don't necessarily push it because clinically speaking, I want you to function better. And if that means you have to stay on your antidepressant and I'm helping you too, that's okay as well.
Dr. Joe Sansone:But I think it's a problem when you've got seventeen percent of the people on antidepressants. You don't know the long term medical effects of it. I think one of the legitimate knocks on that is you go to your general practitioner, you've got anxiety going on, this and that, And doctors, they're there to help you, so they're not going be resistant. So they put you on antidepressant. Originally when this stuff came out, it was more of a transitory thing.
Dr. Joe Sansone:Then you're supposed to do therapy and then work And then it's like, now they got people kind of locked in it. And so a lot of people go to their doctor, they get on an antidepressant, or even worse, Xanax or something like that, which is more addictive, and then they don't even do therapy. And I think that's a little bit of an issue because you're spending five or ten minutes sometimes with the GP. Is that enough time to really go through your issues?
Dr. Murray Sabrin:Well, that's the other thing is given the corporatization of medical care in America today, general practitioners usually see a patient for ten, fifteen, twenty minutes at most. Sometimes if you have a direct primary care or a concierge medicine, you can see a doctor for an hour or at least a half hour and go over your history and the symptoms. And so you're trying to get at the root cause of people's issues. And the way you address these issues is through primarily hypnosis?
Dr. Joe Sansone:Yeah, I I do talk therapy as well. I do get some people to come to me just for talk therapy. Usually people have done hypnosis with me first because they're familiar with me. But yeah, I'm I'm doing a talk therapy for about a half hour to an hour. And then I did a hypnosis like forty five minutes to an hour.
Dr. Joe Sansone:My sessions even my hypnosis sessions are longer than a typical hypnosis session. That's And part of the challenge. Like, I could take insurance, but then I'd have to sacrifice the level of care that I'm giving extraordinarily. I know what I do is effective, exactly how I have it set up. So what can I do?
Dr. Joe Sansone:Maybe do a talk session with you one time, then come back and do the hypnosis the next time? Because the insurance will only pay hypnosis like a regular talk therapy session. It's kind of odd because EMDR, which is basically it's very proprietary, but it's basically you're putting people in a light trance state and doing eye movement desensitization, like insurance will actually pay more money for that. And that's honestly what I do is light years ahead of that. I've had therapists that specialize in that to come to me, and they've admitted it.
Dr. Joe Sansone:And I don't mean that as a knock because that can be effective with people, but it's very odd how that hypnosis doesn't You should be able to bill insurance for more money for hypnosis. It's a specialty. Honestly, it's more effective. But
Dr. Murray Sabrin:I want to wrap this up and give people hope if they're dealing with issues that what's the best way to find somebody that's compatible with them personally and what their issues are. What's the best way for people to go and get help if they need help?
Dr. Joe Sansone:So go get help if you need help. And I think, you know, a therapist, you know, sometimes people go through a few therapists before they find someone they're comfortable with, especially if you're doing talk therapy because that'll take longer. Excuse me, I'm a cold. But I think, you know, it's difficult sometimes because a good therapist wouldn't impose their views on you. You should feel comfortable with them, that kind of thing.
Dr. Joe Sansone:The mental health programs are very kind of woke out there. And so you need to find therapists who aren't gonna impose their values on you. My argument is a good therapist is actually like a libertarian in that little confines of the session, you know, because you're it's like any other it's like your accountant or anybody out there helping you achieve what you're trying to And so you don't wanna let that so you have to find somebody you're comfortable with. You have to be able trust your therapist.
Dr. Murray Sabrin:Last question. Since COVID, do you do telemedicine at all, or do you have to be in your office for the for the setting to work for for the hypnosis?
Dr. Joe Sansone:I can do hypnosis by telehealth. I prefer not to. Prefer to do it in person. So usually if I'm doing telehealth, it's talk therapy. But I'm mostly in person because I prefer that.
Dr. Joe Sansone:During COVID, they lifted the restrictions and you could do talk therapy with people anywhere in the country. You're really only supposed to be doing telehealth with people in your state that you're licensed in. Right. Also, but I generally don't like doing telehealth. I'll do it, but not really for hypnosis because it's more effective.
Dr. Joe Sansone:It's effective by telehealth, but there's things I can't control on. If somebody's dog comes in room and starts barking, that kind thing, it's a little bit of a issue.
Dr. Murray Sabrin:Joe, this has been terrific. You provide a lot of insight into what you do and how people can cope with the age of chaos that we're in. And so if people wanna get in touch with you, what's the best way that people can get in touch with you?
Dr. Joe Sansone:For my therapy practice, it's sansonehypnosis.com. Very humble.
Dr. Murray Sabrin:Sansonehypnosis.com. And they can get an appointment pretty quickly to see you?
Dr. Joe Sansone:Yeah. Relatively quickly. Yeah. You know, yeah. It's not gonna be like three months out or something like that.
Dr. Murray Sabrin:Sure. And you also have a substack. Tell us about your substack.
Dr. Joe Sansone:That's josephsansone.com, and that's know, I kinda write about a wide range of issues, and a lot of my political activism is on there, as you know.
Dr. Murray Sabrin:Terrific, terrific. Joe, it's been great. We're gonna have you back to talk about issues as they evolve in this country. But here at Health Wealth in the Pursuit of Happiness, we wanna help you improve your health, increase your wealth, and help you pursue your happiness. So next week, we're gonna have another medical professional, healthcare professional, Doctor.
Dr. Murray Sabrin:Glenn Gero, talking about his approach as a naturopath in New Jersey and the work he's done. And he deals with a lot of the issues Joe deals out with, and also deals with, physical, ailments as well. So Joe, I wanna thank you for being our guest today and, please out there, do your best to stay balanced. The yin and the yang, this is important in this age of polarization, of high anxiety, and we hope you come back for next session and many more to come. So thanks, Joe, for being with us, and, speak to you soon.
Dr. Joe Sansone:Alright. Thank you, my friend. Could I add one last thing? Absolutely. So, we didn't get into the polarization thing, but I have to tell you, literally after the last two elections, I've had people coming to me because they were so upset that Biden won the election, and then I just had people coming to me because they were so upset that, Trump won the election.
Dr. Joe Sansone:So I'm here for you all.
Dr. Murray Sabrin:That's it. You're a bipartisan therapist. That's good to hear. Anyway, thanks for being here, Joe, and I look forward to more conversations in the future. Thank you, sir.