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Long Game: A Heated Rivalry Podcast is a re-watch and deep-dive podcast dedicated to Heated Rivalry, hosted by Declan and Silvan. In each episode, we revisit key moments across the series, unpacking the slow-burn tension, character development, and emotional beats that make the heated rivalry world so compelling. Through thoughtful discussion, close reading, and a fan-informed lens, we explore themes of competition, intimacy, identity, and growth over time, celebrating not just the heat of the rivalry, but the long game it takes to truly understand these characters and their relationship.
New episodes published every Sunday
Declan (00:00)
Hi everyone, welcome back to part three of episode six of Heated Rivalry. This is the final part of this episode and we are getting into the real nitty gritty of what we've all been building up to. Unfortunately, Shane and Ilya have been found out by Shane's dad and this is starting a wave of events which are going to carry us through to the very end of the show and wow.
There is so much drama in this last part of the episode.
Silvan (00:32)
Yeah. Yeah. David, just buy an extra charger, man. Like, it's not that hard.
Declan (00:38)
You could have
avoided this whole thing if you had just got that charger lead from the car instead.
Silvan (00:43)
And to his credit, where we have to give it where it's due, ILya says, your phone's been ringing all morning kind of thing. So David's tried. David tried. All on this silent meditation retreat, right?
Declan (00:51)
Yeah, David tried. Yeah, he's probably dead.
Silvan (01:00)
And so for you, what was the significance of David watching them, seeing them, but then leaving immediately? Like the car was even positioned to be driven off very quickly. It was facing away from the house.
Declan (01:14)
I think it's to play on Shane's anxieties. To give him no clue as to how his father's actually feeling. ⁓ Because you could look at it from multiple angles. Obviously there's the obvious angle of, my god my son is gay, this is awful, I'm leaving right now. Which is probably what Shane has going through his head. ⁓ But it could also be the angle of, my god I just see my son on the dock and he was half naked and I shouldn't have seen that. Bye bye bye bye.
wouldn't have mattered who it was if it was like, that's an invasion of privacy. Sorry, sorry, sorry, I'm gone. It could have been that. And I think that's what that actually is. I think that's, that's what goes with it. It's like, I wasn't supposed to see that. So sorry, I'm leaving, I'm leaving, I'm leaving. But in Shane's head, it's, my God, my God, this is awful. I'm leaving. I'm disgusted with you. And this is why Shane immediately spirals because he will always jump to the worst case scenario because he is an anxious person. He is naturally very anxious.
And obviously with his own sort of neurodivergence as well, sees things in a very straightforward way. And when he fixates on something, seems to be, he's not easily dissuaded of that idea. So yeah, it's very important that Shane gets in the car and goes to sort this stuff out because he can't let it sit.
Silvan (02:38)
Well, it's actually not even Shane's idea. Ilya's the one who's like, do you want to go? And Shane's like, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, let's do that.
Declan (02:46)
Yeah,
that would be good idea.
Silvan (02:49)
Yeah, like who would have thunk that? And I wanted to ask you about his freakout because he has multiple freakouts and moments, I should say, in this episode. And with this one specifically, you could literally see him spiral. He walks around the room and he collapses on the sofa and then he collapses into Ilya. And I thought, he gets someone to collapse into now. There's someone else to help absorb that for him. Whereas before when he has these panic attacks or these moments, he's on his own.
Declan (03:11)
Yes.
Yeah.
Yeah, he's alone.
Yeah. And that obviously caused them to spiral more and it makes things worse. the fact that Ilya is now there, well, what happens? Well, all of a sudden he calms down enough to listen to Ilya and listen to his advice. And they both decide then to sort of go to the parents and discuss the whole thing, which is very, very important that he does this. And I think that he might have panicked and ran at Ilya sort of not being there to talk him down a little bit.
Silvan (03:19)
and he catastrophizes.
Declan (03:49)
⁓ but yeah, it's, it's very typical of his character. I liked the way that he had like a moment of breakage where he was like, my God, blind panic, because we never really see Shane blind panic. He's usually quite, he's very internal with a lot of his emotions. And so having this outward burst of like, ⁓ my God, like that just goes to show how bad this is that he is like, cannot withhold this stuff and he has to like express it like physically.
emotionally like you could see it as clear as day like there's no need to read between the lines to understand what he's feeling at this moment in time.
Silvan (04:29)
And if I'm honest, I expected this moment to be a bit bigger than what it actually was, because this is the culmination of all of Shane's fears, let's be honest. Like he's been hiding it from his parents, he's been hiding it from everyone else, and now it's out, it's out now. And I almost felt like it was a bit too contained for me, but maybe it's true to his character, but I felt like this is like the worst thing to ever happen to Shane. I don't, yeah, I don't know.
Declan (04:38)
Okay.
Yeah,
but Shane represses. So he does, Shane internalizes. He is not someone who outwardly expresses his emotions very well. And that's, I think, down to his neurodivergence as well. ⁓ But you do get that idea that he is sort of like, it's all happening in here and he's kind of going insane. You'll actually notice that he becomes more emotionally withdrawn than usual. He becomes harder to read as the episode goes on.
That's a deliberate choice by Jacob Tierney to do that because Shane is disassociating. is like, he's mentally trying to protect himself because he's afraid of what he's going to hear. And that's why you only really see Shane properly break down whenever he gets that moment of, know,
permission to be who he is from his mother, the apology from her. That's when he breaks down again, he goes back to normal. But during that scene, there's a reason why he's so rigid, why he is so withdrawn, why it's so hard to read him, why he comes across as like wooden. I don't think that's something William's acting. I think that's literally Shane's character. It's a bit of a Shane would do this. So, God, so William's had a really hard job.
Silvan (05:53)
Yeah.
Yeah.
He did. He did. It's not easy to outwardly portray some of those internal sort of processes. And I like that you say he comes across as wooden because you see this in the scene where they've driven to the house, which is still a funny sort of moment for them when Ilya is wearing the Boston sort of t-shirt and Shane's like, really? And he's like, well, it's not a surprise I play for Boston. Like, let's be honest. Right? But you see when they enter the house, know, Shane enters first and he's
Declan (06:30)
Mm.
They're gonna know I play for both.
Silvan (06:45)
very stiff, his hands are in his pockets and and Ilya sort of has his hands crossed in front of him in front of his abdomen or his crotch or something like that and they both look like they're bracing for a battle. Like Ilya looks like he's gonna get sort of assaulted in a way, he's kind of like rigid and Shane almost looks like he's he's done something wrong, he's sort of got that body language.
Declan (06:46)
Yeah, it's like... so good.
Yeah, yeah.
Well, they're both
stood there like two kids that just got caught doing trouble. Which is exactly how it's played. And that is just so funny. It's kind of perfect. Because it sort of suits their dynamic. You forget these guys are young. They're actually, still in their 20s. Which is still young, okay. Even if they're at the very end of their 20s, that's still young.
Silvan (07:26)
Yeah. Yeah.
Declan (07:37)
So yeah. ⁓
Silvan (07:41)
Declan needs some validation for the listeners. It's still young Declan, definitely still young.
Declan (07:43)
Yeah, just go ahead. I turned
29 in like a month, so I really need validation and compliments, honestly. Butter me up. I'm happy to accept any compliments. I'm not afraid of compliments. Throw them at me. ⁓ Please.
Silvan (08:00)
Please leave some compliments for Declan in the comments, everyone.
Declan (08:02)
Yeah, how youthful do I look?
Like, do I look 21? I, you know, I didn't say that, but some people might say it.
Silvan (08:13)
I'm sure I'll pass on all the compliments. Do not worry. But I like this sort of childlike innocence that you talk about because you very much see it. And again, you see this funny side. Like Jacob Tierney does this really good job of giving you the heavy emotional weighty bits and then giving you little bits of like humor where they're trying to sort of describe what they are and Ilya's like lovers and Shane's like, no, that's gross.
Declan (08:15)
Shit, thank you so much.
for you.
It's something only someone who wouldn't have like English as their first language would say because it's like sort of perfect descriptor but it's like not something that you would like typically say it's a bit cringe so ⁓ it's
Silvan (08:48)
Really?
Well, this is where I'm going to be a bit critical because I like the word lovers, but you're a Swiftie and that's a whole song of hers.
Declan (08:59)
⁓
So, listen, I have nothing... I'm actually I'm lying, have something against lovers. It's just... don't know... Like, imagine going around introducing your boyfriend like, this is my lover.
Silvan (09:21)
I quite like, maybe it's because I was brought up on Sex and the City and Carrie describes one of her sort of the men she's dating as her lover and I thought that's so romantic. She has a lover, she has a Parisian lover. Like it just seems so exotic and so grown up.
Declan (09:37)
They only ever, that's the thing,
people in like shows and TV shows only ever like describe their partner as a lover whenever they're like from an exotic origin or like anything but white. This is ⁓ my Argentine lover.
Silvan (09:58)
Right?
And it works so well. It just sounds really enticing.
Declan (10:04)
Yeah, I think maybe, ⁓ South Americans, sort of Latin people just typically have that sort of more romantic language. Whereas Irish people are like, ⁓ will not let you know, whether or not you like them for the first like three weeks of like dating them. then they might like you and then they might explain it to you. It's, it's such strange. Like,
Silvan (10:28)
Wow.
Declan (10:33)
I will go on there.
Silvan (10:35)
No, I think we need to get your partner on the podcast at some point.
Declan (10:38)
Yeah, because he is ⁓ Hungarian originally. yeah, his cultural context is a bit different. Irish people are very emotionally repressed, I think, when it comes to dating. ⁓ But I like to think of it in a different way, as in there's that stereotype of Spanish people or Portuguese people or South American people being like...
my God, I love you after knowing you for a week and you are the love of my life. And then they're together for sex, and then they break up. Like that is a very, very common story from the gay dating scene in Ireland. Whenever like South American men and things like that, they're come over and then they get into relationships with like Irish guys and they are super closed off. But the
Silvan (11:21)
Yeah.
Declan (11:32)
South American people are so expressive and open with themselves and they use such lovely language and they they butter you up in such amazing ways and we Irish people it's just so different we just don't do that.
Silvan (11:46)
And I hear what you're getting at because I think for a lot of English people, it's very similar. It's very sort of stiff-up-the-lip kind of thing. But I would love to hear from some of our South American listeners because there are a lot of them out there listening. And let us know what your take on British culture or Irish culture is. Have you ever sort of met or
Declan (11:53)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Silvan (12:09)
fallen in love with someone from Europe and how is that different for you?
Declan (12:12)
Yeah, like anyone
that is currently like South American or Spanish Portuguese, like what is it like to date like an Irish person? if you're currently dating an Irish person, what was it like to like get your husband or to get your wife or like how difficult was it? Because I think it's like a, I think it's a trust thing. So it is, I think we're a lot more protective of our emotions and
Silvan (12:31)
Right?
Declan (12:41)
Whenever we do finally open up, think it means that there's greater meaning in it. It's like, I'm only doing this now because I trust you fully. Like I'm on board. And then of course you'll have people being like, well, this Irish guy did it to you about me, so he was not in love with me, so it doesn't matter in the end. But generally that's my idea. I think we we hold onto our emotions a bit more and then give them out more sparingly to people that we deeply care about.
Silvan (13:09)
Yeah, and I love the way that you described that because you can see in this scene when all four of them are sitting together, you know, it starts off really tense and, you know, as the scene develops, you almost see this unraveling. There's a bit more that they give you and there's a bit more comfort. And then Yuna just goes like, I need a drink. Like she goes for the vodka. And did you notice when David says, you know,
Declan (13:30)
Yeah.
Silvan (13:37)
yeah, this is the good stuff. It's the Russian stuff. Like the look Ilya gave Shane, like father, like son, right?
Declan (13:43)
I like this
guy. Yeah.
Silvan (13:47)
David doesn't say a lot, what he says is done with intention.
Declan (13:50)
Yeah,
exactly. I like that Ilya, you can already see sort of how a good dynamic between Ilya and Shane's parents could be formed. And you can see Ilya is very comfortable in this situation. Like he is not feeling the awkwardness at all. He's just sort of enjoying the company. He's enjoying getting to meet his boyfriend's parents. And I think that's what that ultimately is. He's just, it's another milestone for him. like, this is going great. I'm already meeting the parents.
Silvan (14:19)
Well, because it is, because if you think about the context in which Ilya grew up, like for him, it was surrounded by shouting, presumably by a lot of tension, by physical violence, maybe, but definitely emotional abuse. know, he's in a situation with Una, David and Shane. No one's screaming. No one's throwing anything. They're all communicating like, hot damn, like this is the most chill thing ever for him.
Declan (14:30)
Mmm. ⁓ yeah, yeah.
Yeah,
I'm just going to enjoy my pasta.
Silvan (14:48)
Right, right.
my God, that poor boy needs to pass this so bad. But, I think when we had Ren on the podcast a few episodes ago, know, Ren made a really nice observation about how every time Yuna gets up to like get tea or whatever, she touches Shane on the shoulder, she passes him. And it's only when Ilya and Shane share how long they've been together or been together, quote unquote, but now they're the only people that they've ever fallen in love with.
Declan (15:10)
Mm-hmm.
Silvan (15:17)
That's when Yuna gets up to get a drink, I think, but she doesn't touch Shane on the shoulder that time. And for me, there's that, and Ren says it so much better than I will, but there's this realization of I've missed out on something really important for my son. And he's been in love with this person for so long and I haven't noticed.
Declan (15:34)
Yeah.
I think in that moment she's feeling unworthy. I think that's why she's doing that. But I think in doing that, she's sort of making it worse because Shane is taking it the wrong way. I think and it's feeding into his anxiety. It's like, oh my God, she's only touched me after that because I've been lying there for so long. When that's not what she actually thinks, what she thinks is, my God, I can't believe that he, I didn't create a safe enough space for him to want to tell me about this.
Una is probably, Shane is probably Una's closest, like closest confidant besides her husband. Like we don't see her out much. We don't see her with friends. We don't really see her interact with many other people except for when with Shane. So you can imagine that their bond is very close and the idea of not knowing how someone so close to you is really feeling and to find out that they've been suffering in silence. Like that's hard. And as a mother, I can imagine it being brutal.
And yeah, I think her not wanting to touch him at that moment in time is her feeling unworthy, I think.
Silvan (16:50)
Yeah, I agree. when especially when Una then goes outside and then Shane follows her, I thought it was such a sweet touch that he brings a cardigan out for her. And he's almost offering this sort of this connection, like here's something for you. It's almost like this olive branch in a way. I wanted to get what your take on that scene specifically was for you.
Declan (17:01)
Yeah, he's caring for her.
Yeah.
It's, yeah, it's a very hard scene. So it is like, can imagine for someone who's a parent, it would be very tough to watch that scene because the idea of you failing enough as a parent that your child is still uncomfortable to come and discuss one of the biggest aspects of their life with you, that has to be a hard.
hard pole to swallow. ⁓ No parent likes to have their failures pointed out to them but when it's so clear and obvious you can't do anything but get upset and she does get upset she's so upset with how she's failed him and I don't think she realizes Shane's thought process until he is like I'm sorry that this is how this happened and I'm sorry like Shane's apologizing to her.
I when he starts doing that she's like, ⁓ hold on a minute. No, I've been thinking about myself and all this. No, I need to assure you first that this is not your fault. I'm sorry. Like you have nothing to apologize for. And it's like that. I think her then realizing that, my God, no, he thinks that I don't love him. my God. No, this is not your fault. It's my fault. And
Being able to admit that or to say that to a child that it's sort of suffered, I think that can be very healing. again, it brings them closer together. So it does. And you can see that, that now Shane has proper support in his family. Like he isn't just in this alone with Ilya His parents will now be, will be there for him when all of this gets more complicated.
Silvan (19:08)
Yeah. And I think this is such a, it's such an important scene. Like I want to read some of it out for everyone, if that's okay. You know, Shane says, mom, ⁓ I need you to know that I really did try. I tried really hard, but I just can't help it. And I'm sorry. And then Eunice says, you have nothing, nothing to apologize for. Look at me, look at me. And she says this again. ⁓ I'm sorry that I made you feel like you couldn't tell me.
Declan (19:14)
Okay.
Silvan (19:37)
And then they both start crying and you know, says, Hey, and she does this thing. We see this in this episode, like Shane's picked up on this, Hey, as an emotional comfort, like look at me like, you know, and she says, Hey, I'm so, so proud of you. Okay. And then she says, she says, please forgive me. And I thought this was really interesting in how Shane's like, I forgive you, mom, I love you. And then she says, I love you too. So much.
Declan (19:38)
Okay.
Thanks for watching.
Silvan (20:05)
And we hear this so much from Shane in previous episodes. And then she says, you okay, all right, okay, okay, enough. And they sort of, and then she says, all right, what's the plan? And she sort of brings it back in a very you in a kind of way. But I think for me, what this scene sort of, I think this scene meant a lot to me. And I think it means a lot to a lot of queer kids and adults who
didn't quite get the positive or warm experience when they came out. Because not everyone has that. And for those of you who have, I'm amazing and thankful that they do have that. But not all coming out experiences have that. And it's so important to hear this because for me, when Shane apologizes and says, he tried really, really hard.
Declan (20:40)
Yeah.
Silvan (21:03)
When I listened to that, my take on that was, he's implying that he tried not to be gay. And I can imagine, yeah, and I can imagine for a lot of us, a lot of people, I should say, that's what's been internalized and that's going to resonate with so many queer people. Like, I really tried not to be this thing, I'm really sorry. And there's this shame and this sort of self-hatred that we impose on ourselves when
Declan (21:09)
That's exactly what it's.
Silvan (21:32)
We're trying to sort of grapple with our sexuality and it is so powerful. And this is sort of something that, you know, we're not always in control of and it's something that makes us different. And it sort of makes you different in a world that doesn't necessarily tolerate it. And it doesn't tolerate difference very well. And in a way it almost despises you because of that. And, you know, that hate then
something we don't choose, but it gets internalized and it becomes such a large part of us growing up that we end up hating for some people a part of ourselves. And this is for me what it means to grow up in a society that sort of is intolerant, that it's such a heartbreaking reality for so many people. And not just in the past, because certainly in the past, but also now as well, but also
in the way that we don't choose it, we learn to love ourselves because of it. And because of it, it makes us special and it gives us a sense of identity and a sense of community, certainly. And I'm thinking back to that campaign in the early 2000s where it said sort of, it gets better, it was this viral thing. Back then it was more in America and it made me laugh because yes, in some ways it does get better, but actually...
In some ways it doesn't and it's not to discourage anyone from coming out. That's not what I'm saying at all. It's just the reality of it is that, you you do come out and you have all these expectations of what it's going to be like and it's, you know, magical and fairy tale like, and it's actually not. It's actually, it can be quite hard even after that. And, and, and I think you definitely have to come out in your own time because for me, I wasn't afforded that.
And I know a lot of people want to fall with that luxury. And I think it would have made a difference if I did. And I mean, I already came out a little later in life anyway, but for Yuna specifically, and this is where I cried in that scene, for Yuna to acknowledge and take responsibility for not creating that environment for Shane in which he felt completely sort of honest and open.
you know, to be able to come out to her. For me, that's everything. And I think so many people needed to hear that specifically, you know, to know that it wasn't our fault for someone else to take that responsibility and that accountability. And if anyone hears anything from what I said, that it's not your fault.
Declan (24:12)
Mm-hmm. Yeah. 100%. Yeah.
I always think it's hilarious when people say that you choose to be gay or like, ⁓ it's a phase, it'll pass. You would not choose to inflict that sort of vitriol on you, that self-hatred. Like you would not choose that for yourself unless it was just a core part of who you are. And unfortunately growing up, just, you're taught this core belief that, you know, there's something wrong with you because you're gay.
And it takes time and it takes work and it takes a lot of effort to undo that belief and replace it with something else which is being gay. just part of who you are and there's nothing right or wrong about it. It's just a neutral thing. It's like you can smell, you can see, you can breathe, can hear, touch, whatever. It's just part of who you are. It's just natural. So yeah.
That moment of getting that apology from Unna, her taking responsibility because it's true, we didn't do this stuff to ourselves. We didn't teach ourselves these things. We didn't learn that being gay is wrong. It's not something that's naturally, it's not something that naturally occurs in your brain. It's something that you're told and you're taught and you're shown and you're exposed to. And so for a parent, a person in a position of authority and responsibility, comes forward and goes, I'm so sorry.
It's like, ⁓ so it wasn't me. It's not my fault. It's I didn't have to deal with that. That was that was that was on all these these people that should have looked after me they didn't. And for a lot of people, an apology is incredibly healing. So it is like people underestimate the value of it. Like we do give them away so freely so often. But when it comes to the big stuff, we're so scared to give them.
we were so scared to admit when we've been wrong or whenever we've done something that we didn't intend. I think for a lot of people they think they have good intentions and they think that just because the end result was bad doesn't mean they need to apologize but this is the thing. It's needed by that person to heal and I do hope that anyone who had a bad experience and you don't get what they wanted does get that apology.
get some form of it and some karmic way from the universe, which I do believe in. So yeah, very powerful scene, powerful moment.
Silvan (27:00)
Yeah, if anyone needs an Emmy, it's them too for that scene alone. I know they're not allowed to have Emmys. It's a stupid rule, but whatever. And I think for me, this is why representation matters so much and why it's important and why it's important that we are getting shows like this and shows like this that are resonating with the wider audience. I can't imagine what a show like this would have done to me 20 years ago.
Declan (27:07)
different rule.
Yeah.
Silvan (27:28)
or done for me 20 years ago rather.
And I know there were other shows at the time, but not like this. It was...
Declan (27:35)
Not like this, no, not with this as wide
and appealing and as wide wide an acceptance and for such a niche and very masculine space.
Silvan (27:42)
Exactly.
Exactly, because like 20 years ago we got Will and Grace for example and the gay main characters were comic relief. Jack was a comic relief and I laughed and it was funny but that's how then mainstream media viewed gay characters. They were always the sidekick, the funny one, you the sassy one let's be honest. How many tropes did we carry for that?
Declan (27:53)
was like a joke. Yeah, it was a joke. Yeah.
But they never depicted the actual relationship. They
never depicted them in a romantic sense in a way that was serious. that's, this is what the show does. It depicts.
Silvan (28:16)
Right?
Declan (28:21)
normal people having to deal with a very complicated reality of being gay, which is sometimes you're not out and sometimes not being out affects huge aspects of your life. And to be out is a disaster. It can be a disaster for your life. It can blow it up. So even though your love is pure and it's right and it's wholesome and it's all these great things and it's hot and it's ⁓ it's all undermined by the fact that
Society has these expectations of people and place these expectations of love on people that just aren't based in reality. So yeah, it's you.
Silvan (29:01)
And this is why in a way representation matters for Ilya and Shane. And I'm recalling very early on, I think episode one or two when we were talking and you're like, Scott's going to be really important later on. He's going to be really important. And this is how Scott I can see is so important to how, because Ilya says he has a conversation with Scott after the MLH awards or something like that. And you can see how that story arc for Scott and Kip is just so important, not in just
Declan (29:21)
Yeah.
Silvan (29:30)
allowing Ili and Shane to feel more comfortable about coming out, but seeing what that looks like in their world.
Declan (29:36)
Yeah,
I mean, why do you think game changers are the first book? It's the catalyst to allow all these other players to come out. So it is. That's it's the catalyst. It's the beginning. So it is. It's it's the example, the representation. It's showing the value of representation and spaces so that people have the confidence to be who they want to be and who they need to be. So, yeah.
You might not like the first book, but it serves a very important purpose for the rest of the stories.
Silvan (30:13)
And I will say, I loved Scott and Kip, the storyline. And I know a lot of people have told me through the comments and through actual, even in-person conversations, they were like, yeah, I didn't care for that. I'm like, but it's so important. It was so important for them.
Declan (30:25)
Yeah, there's
like a classic love story. There's just a lot more straightforward, ⁓ like a gay queer love story. It's like, you want to be together, but they're gay, so they can't come out and that's sort of it. And then you get your ground revealed and you get your happy ever after, but you have this much more complicated and involved relationship going on in the background as well. ⁓ But that lends itself to it's more fuel for the fire. it's, yeah, it's important.
Silvan (30:47)
Right?
And it's interesting that a lot of my gay friends are telling me, didn't care for episode three. Like, let's just skip the Scott and Kip thing. And when I'm seen on social media, it's a lot of the straight men that are really invested in Scott and Kip. And I know we've touched on this previously, but that's who they're rooting for. That's where some of the straight men that I've seen talk about this online are really invested.
Declan (31:20)
Hmm? Yeah, because it's
Silvan (31:22)
I don't know why, why it's so different.
Declan (31:25)
know,
might just speak to them in some way. It's not the melodrama, it's not the complication that is Shane and Ilya, it's more straightforward, it's classic romance, it's just got a queer skin on it. And I think they like that, they like the... I don't know, it's relatable, exactly. It's guys just happen to be in love with each other.
Silvan (31:39)
Yeah. Yeah.
relatable.
Yeah.
Declan (31:55)
and they had gone over this by hurdle and they did it and that's admirable so it is so yeah
Silvan (31:58)
Yeah.
Yeah. And then you get this again, this flipping that Jacob Tierney does with this heavy emotional moment with you and Shane, and we get the spaghetti scene straight after. And the little shimmy that Ilya does when he's having his sweet pasta, he, the boy is happy. He is happy. This is probably the first homemade meal he's had since he was 12. And you can't help but feel joy for Ilya right now.
Declan (32:15)
just do it a little bit.
Yeah.
Yeah,
he's everything is falling into place really. I was serious what I said before, like, he has everything he's always wanted. What does he not got to be happy about? It's just logistics for him at this point. But you can see that Shane struggling. And so he offers that comfort as well whenever Shane is like really starting to feel the anxiety then, which is a surprise. And like it's a long day. A lot's happened. He's having to think about a lot. It's overwhelming.
a lot of emotions and yeah it's just nice that Ilya offered him that it's okay like you're safe you're in a good spot you're with me your boyfriend finally says it and your parents so yeah lovely scene
Silvan (33:16)
Yeah. And we get this almost this culmination of why we've had, you know, this open communication and this buildup of communication to now where Ilya's like, Hey, hey, again, very unified, very Shane coded. You're okay. Your family is here. Your boyfriend is here. And then Shane's like, it's almost like someone's like, like, right. It's like someone got the defibrillator and just shocked Shane. And he snaps out of his panic attack.
Declan (33:36)
different.
Yeah, yeah, because he finally has something
that he's always wanted. So he does and it's right there in front of him and that's enough to shock him. It's like, oh my god, wait, I do, I I had to have a boyfriend. my god, this is amazing. So yeah, it's such a cute moment. So it is,
Silvan (34:02)
for Ewan and David to then witness, because they're to Shane's panic attacks, right? That's not gonna be new to them. But when they can see someone else has him and someone else can not just comfort him, but someone else can bring him out of that place that he gets into, I feel like that's where it changes for them. They're like, he's one of ours now. This is somebody that Shane needs.
Declan (34:07)
Yeah.
The care, comfort, yeah.
Yeah,
yeah, exactly. Yeah. I really like that this is the start of like a really nice dynamic between Ilya and Shane's parents as well. that, you know, it paints a picture of what the future of their family is going to look like. And it's just a lovely thought. So it is a way to end off the episode.
Silvan (34:45)
Yeah, I want to ask what you think. When Shane and Yuna are having this very heart-to-heart moment outside, we forget that David and Ilya are still at the dinner table. Like, what do you think they're talking about?
Declan (34:56)
Yeah. Oh, they absolutely
sat and talked about hockey the entire time. 100%. Like there's no doubt these people are obsessed. Like they're not normal. it'd be like sitting. It's like my dad sitting in the room with my uncles. So it'd just be football, football, football. And it's just, yeah. So yeah, that's 100 % hockey.
Silvan (35:17)
Yeah, I fully agree. And something that I was even thinking about, like this whole episode has been this, it's a coming out episode, right? And what we think about is the central titular sort of character that has this emotional arc is Shane. But actually, yes, Shane comes out, but so does Ilya, really.
Declan (35:25)
Yes, yes.
Yeah, I would almost say that Ilya has completed his coming out arc. Shane is sort of in his style. I don't think Shane's fully resolved. I generally do think that he has a lot more to deal with. So he does. He's a lot more to come to terms with, whereas Ilya seems a lot more relaxed with this sort of change in circumstances. He seems a lot more open. And I don't know if that's because he's happy to have other people plan it for him. ⁓ but yeah.
Silvan (35:46)
Hmm.
Declan (36:06)
I both of them have come a long way, so they have and the character journey has been fantastic, but I do see more of the change in Ilya, so I do. I think Shane has more work.
Silvan (36:19)
Yeah, and you and I both know, and I'm sure other people will resonate with this, is just because you come out the once doesn't mean you don't have to do it again and again and again.
Declan (36:28)
They haven't even
done the big one yet. So they haven't.
Silvan (36:31)
Right?
They haven't told Reebok!
Declan (36:34)
Not exactly. They've not told Shane's best friend yet.
Silvan (36:36)
Hahaha!
Hayden, Hayden doesn't know. Hayden doesn't know. But yeah, think you're right. think Ilya's almost over that sort of hurdle and he sort of almost come to terms with that. And again, we see Ilya further forward in this journey than Shane does. And I don't know whether it is because Ilya is bisexual. So maybe there's less stigma. I don't know. I'm hypothesizing. I'm just thinking out loud. Not that there is less stigma to being bisexual, of course.
Declan (36:43)
data.
⁓
50 yen.
Yeah.
Silvan (37:12)
But I wonder, you know, if that plays a role into it as well.
Declan (37:15)
Yeah, it could be. I feel like...
Again it goes back to what they both want. Like I think Shane wants Ilya and Hagi. I think Ilya is just happy with Shane. So I do. think he has him.
If other things don't go well, it's going to be shit, but I'll have him. I think that's genuinely the idea behind it at this point in time. Whereas Shane is still trying to grapple with what has to happen eventually and how complicated it's going to be and how messy it's going to be. And I think that just freaks him out.
Silvan (37:41)
Yeah.
Yeah. And even earlier in this episode, you were talking about that sense of retirement and sort of, and David asking like, so are you going to come up when you retire and they kind of give each other to look like probably and, and you know, reinforces no, that's sad. Like, like that's not, that's no, that can't be, you can't do that. And she's fully on board. Like she wants to call Rolex and spend this with Reebok and whoever else is sponsoring him at that point.
Declan (38:11)
Yeah, that's fucking sad.
Yeah, I mean, if Scott
Hunter can do it, why can't they?
Silvan (38:28)
Well, so that was my question in a way. When we have the, obviously in episode five with this grand big gesture with Scott and Kip, and then we get the monologue from Scott at the awards earlier in this episode, in episode six, we don't see any backlash. We don't see any backlash from the other players, nor the media, not even like from that commentary that usually happens when they're playing hockey. So in a way I'm like, why don't we see that backlash?
Declan (38:34)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
⁓ I think it's just a bad moment for it. It doesn't fit under the flow of the story so it doesn't. Ultimately what we're trying to do is get these two to like, admit they like each other. That stuff, I would say you'll see more of it in the next season. I think that's going to be a big discourager for Shane ⁓ because yeah, think even, let put it this way, I think Shane
is more comfortable where he is in his life. don't think he likes upset, he doesn't like change. Ilya has dealt with change his entire life, he upended his life, he moved to a completely different country. Shane is even playing for a Canadian team. Not much of his routine outside of becoming this superstar has really changed. He can still structure his life in a very specific way, in the way that he likes.
Ilya is the one offering to upend his life from America to Canada. Shane's not offering that. It never occurred to Shane to do the opposite so that Ilya could stay with his team instead. ⁓ So yeah, are elements here which I'm glad have been sort of left for now to not be approached right now because I kind of want to wrap up this story.
Silvan (40:17)
Hmm.
Declan (40:20)
I want a nice, satisfying conclusion to this story. It's not the time to be introducing more conflict at this stage. We already have enough set up. We need to clean house first and then we can go and make a mess again for the next season. ⁓ But I think this is entirely down to pacing. think it's why you're not really getting more of that sort of pushback and stuff. And also it'd be really sad. It's not that kind of show. It's not like...
Silvan (40:35)
Hmm.
Yeah.
Declan (40:48)
misery gay. It's where it's just awful and it's shit and it's horrible being gay all the time. Like, God, help me. I know like those stories are really important to tell, but by fuck I am so sick of them. I honestly, can we just talk about how being gay is kind of great? Like, is that so hard? Like, it's so hard. It's actually really good. I like being gay. I'm kind of glad I am. Like, can we just like, can we do that part? Like, and this shit was doing that. So I think
Silvan (40:48)
Yeah.
Right.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Declan (41:18)
bringing in too much conflict at this point just wouldn't work.
Silvan (41:23)
think you're right. think it would break the pacing and the story especially because we're literally at the end scene and we do get this happily ever after ending. you know, we get the credits and again, the symbolism and the mirroring that Jacob does, these credits roll. So the Kaylin Russo, Bad Things song comes on. I love this song. I've streamed the song since. I have DM'd Kaylin Russo like so many times, like begging her to come onto the podcast.
Declan (41:29)
We're getting our pay off?
Mm-hmm.
Silvan (41:51)
but I love this song so much, but we get this one shot of them driving back. you're right, we get this happy ever after ending. And that's what we've been wanting this whole time, right?
Declan (41:56)
you
Yeah.
Yeah, because
keep in mind, you know, they didn't know they were getting a second season. can tell you that right now. ⁓ This thing could have flopped. And I imagine they were only given permission for one season because it was such an unsure project. Like it had to be shopped about for a while before Jacob Tierney was able to get somewhere that would let him do it his way. ⁓ So yeah, it doesn't surprise me at all that it ends in a nice, clean, satisfying way.
I you could not return to these characters if you wanted to, and you would still have a satisfying ending, so you would. But, fortunate for us, we're gonna get more, so there you go.
Silvan (42:47)
We are. And you're right, there is this satisfying sort of character arc for both of them that we do get throughout the six episodes. And even if we didn't ever get a season two, I think the standalone season would would have, would have sufficed. Obviously I want more, like I want more, but you're right. They didn't know they were going to get a season two, but when they shot this, nobody knew. We only knew like towards the almost the end of the run that they were getting the season two out of this.
Declan (42:51)
Okay.
Yeah.
Silvan (43:13)
And don't know whether you've stuck around to watch the very end of the credits here, but Hudson Williams, and I say the actor's name specifically because I think this is now them being actors and not staying in character. At the very end, he grabs Connor Storrie's jaw, looks at him and sort of opens his mouth and there's like a growling kind of sound. And I'm like, that is not Shane Coded. That's a Hudson.
Declan (43:36)
I think it's just like a nice little little bit to put on at the end. Yeah, just cute. Yeah, really, really great ending. I really enjoyed the sort of send off you get, you you see them they're going on their way. They're driving into the sunset happily ever after like perfect way to wrap it up. And it's funny the book doesn't wrap like that.
because the book ends in a way that leaves it a lot more open. A lot more open. Yeah.
Silvan (43:58)
I don't know.
Interesting.
So this has given me an idea. How about we do, because this is the end of the episode. This is the end of the rewatch aspect of the podcast, right? And first of all, I want to thank everyone that's listened and watched and left a comment and a review because it has meant so much to both of us. Genuinely, you have no idea.
Declan (44:08)
Yes.
Yeah.
Silvan (44:30)
We started this podcast out of nothing. We didn't have huge social media followings or anything like that. And to see it have grown week by week and the downloads and the streams, like it's taken on a life I could have never imagined.
Declan (44:45)
Yeah, yeah, it's been such a surprise and it just started off as just like an idea, just Silvan thought, you be interested in doing it? Sure. Why not? I have a few hours in the day. Let's give us a try and just have fun with it. But yeah, I'm just so happy with the way that people have responded to it and everyone's been so lovely and as really engaged with what we were talking about and,
good to have a space you can just rant about one of your favorite shows.
Silvan (45:18)
Right. And I have to extend that thanks to you as well, Declan, because when I called you up or sent you that message, do you want to do a podcast on this? And you were so up for it. There was no reservation. think it was a couple of days between us talking about it and we filmed the first, we recorded the first episode. And then a couple of days after that, where we released the first episode and it just became a rhythm and it became such a fun thing to do with you and you bring.
Declan (45:36)
Yeah.
Silvan (45:46)
And this is not just me saying it, this is also a lot of the comments that I'm reading from the sources and from YouTube. Like you bring such a depth and analysis to these characters that I think not a lot of people would naturally have. And so the way you think and your background and the way you sort of formulate your thoughts is so, so admirable to watch. And there are times where I just sit back and I let you talk because I'm like,
Shit, he's just saying everything that I want to say but in a lot better ways.
Declan (46:21)
Yeah, I don't really know where that comes from, to be honest. I don't know. I think it comes from lots of different passions. Like I was always into TV and film and media and I did studies and that and that's where my first degree is from is film and TV production. And I'm currently working on my second, which is in counseling and therapy. So.
That's sort of where that happens. But no, I've always enjoyed looking into things and seeing the sort of secrets behind it and understanding it and unpacking it. you know, I think critical thought is such an important tool for you to learn. And I highly encourage people, especially young people, take your English lessons seriously, do your English literature, you know, have fun with the books and the poems. Like, may seem stupid and dorky now, but there's so much value in it.
much about you that you can apply to your real life and can bring a lot of insight and wisdom to you. But yeah, I've just really enjoyed this. I love doing stuff like this. It's just really fun. That's why I agreed so readily with you. You know, when I see someone I want to do, I just do it. It's sort of work out the logistics afterwards, which gets me in trouble more often than it should. But yeah, I don't know. It just seemed like fun. I've had fun. So I'm glad I've been doing it.
Thank very much for doing a lot of the hard work. Like, Sylvan does all the editing of these videos and does a lot of the social media too and puts a lot of work and time and effort in and he's incredible in that aspect. So yeah, I'm very, grateful. I mean, we couldn't be doing this unless he put in the extra time and effort that I can't.
Silvan (48:03)
thanks. I mean, it's a joint effort. ⁓ This isn't the end for us, though. So even though we finished watching the episodes, we're still going to continue on to do like standalone analysis of the show.
Declan (48:17)
Yes. So Sylvan and I had this idea of doing almost like a book club through the podcast. the general thesis is that we will take each of the books and read them through two weeks. So first week we will read the first half of a book and then the second week we finished that book and then we just discuss it. We discuss what we liked about it, like a regular sort of book club. And then we'll also discuss how we feel it plays into the show.
⁓ The elements that show the characters for the books that are a bit later in the series. We can discuss what ones we're excited to see in the show. How do you think we'll do it? What actors do we want them to play them? Yeah, like there is so much sort of fun content that could be had with that idea. So that's what we're going to do. So if you haven't already bought the Game Changers book, I highly recommend you pick it up soon because we are going to be doing a read of it and we're going to be talking about it. So.
Yeah, if that's something you started looking forward to or it's something that you'd be interested in, then definitely hang about for the next episodes as well. And just join us in these deep dives of these books and yeah, have fun.
Silvan (49:29)
Yeah, and I've never read any of the books, so this is going to be a complete new journey for me. And I know a lot of people would have read the books already, but it'll be a nice opportunity to reread the books and almost join in in our virtual book club.
Declan (49:41)
Yeah.
Mm-hmm. Yeah, I'm looking forward to rereading them. The only one I've reread is Heed at Rivalry, so I'm more than happy to go through them all again.