Ep 37: Breaking Generational Trauma With Chris Lee

Tony Cooper sits down with Chris Lee, a coach, trainer, and speaker who has spent his career helping people break the beliefs that quietly run their lives, to talk about where generational trauma actually starts and how dads can be the ones who finally stop it. They dig into what happens the moment your kid pushes a button: why the reaction fires before you can think, and why the fix isn't suppressing it but learning to create a space between what happens and how you respond.

Chris breaks down his idea of "response-ability," the two fears every child is actually born with (falling and loud noises), and how every other fear in your life got handed to you by someone else's playbook. The conversation also covers why kids process emotion so honestly compared to adults, how the way a dad treats a mom shapes a child's emotional environment long before the child can remember it, and a practical tool for couples: building a family vision with non-negotiables that protect the home you're creating.

This is a conversation about interrupting the pattern early, doing the work before the damage gets passed down, and choosing who you want to be instead of defaulting to who you were taught to be. If you enjoyed The Dad Manual, please like and subscribe. If you loved it, share this episode with a Dad! Send your questions to [e-mail].

00:00 Cold open: hot heads, clarity
00:29 Meet Chris Lee, godfather
02:03 What being a godfather means
05:13 What is emotional intelligence?
07:26 Responsibility as response-ability
08:49 The Will Smith Oscars example
11:43 The power of a deep breath
16:28 Where trauma actually comes from
17:07 The two fears we're born with
21:31 Why we forget our own divinity
24:33 Pretending vs. choosing confidence
27:33 The subliminal resentment of a baby
30:14 Why kids process emotion honestly
34:18 Feeling inadequate as a new dad
36:14 How treating mom affects the child
38:06 Building a family vision
40:40 Becoming your parents unconsciously
45:15 Choosing kind over being right
46:56 Chris on earning his own worth
50:59 Advice for a brand new dad

Creators and Guests

Host

Tony Cooper

Tony Cooper is the founder of Playing the Game of Business, a business coach, father, and podcast host.

What is The Dad Manual?

The Dad Manual is a fatherhood podcast hosted by Tony Cooper, featuring honest conversations with dads about the real, unfiltered journey of parenthood. This parenting podcast for dads explores everything from the excitement of being a first time dad to navigating the teenage years. As one of the best podcasts for expecting dads and experienced fathers alike, we dive deep into what it actually means to be a modern dad—the struggles, the growth, the mistakes, and the moments that change you forever. Whether you're looking for a new dad podcast or seasoned parenting wisdom, this family podcast delivers the honest guidance you won't find in books.

Tony Cooper 00:00
A lot of people, I love this because they're like, no, I'm not a victim. Well, right there, you're being a victim. None of us with a hot head can make a clear decision. Right. It's like you can't see your reflection in boiling water.
Chris Lee 00:12
That's a good one. There's a difference between pretending to be confident and choosing confidence.
Tony Cooper 00:29
I'm Tony Cooper. This is The Dad Manual podcast, and I am here today with truly one of my favorite people. Will you please introduce yourself?
Chris Lee 00:40
Chris Lee. It's great to be here. And, Tony, what a blessing to talk to all the dads out there.
Tony Cooper 00:40
Yeah, yeah. So you represent an untold story so far on the podcast, which is you're a godfather. So I want to talk to you about godfathering and the way that's shown up in your life and the duty associated with it. And mostly, as you know, this podcast is really geared toward helping dads step into being the one who stops generational trauma, that stops pulling their childhood in and repeating it for the next generation. So, you know, I love you, Chris, for many reasons. One, you've changed my life in a lot of different ways. I trust you with my life. I obviously trust you with my family's life. And you are a very effective, accomplished, successful coach, trainer, speaker, businessman. You are committed to a life of bringing forth transformation. And so one of the things I'm so excited for us to get into is just all the mechanics of trauma and how it shows up and how it gets passed on and what the opportunity is to break that. So we'll get into all that. But I wanted to start by having you talk about being a godfather and what that means to you.
Chris Lee 01:33
Well, it's really special, especially because the dad that had me become godfather and chose me passed away. So, you know, I went through the whole ritual, Catholic church, we went to the different classes with the priest, and all of the spiritual context behind being a godfather. And really, you are the dad if the dad's for some reason isn't there and passes away or something happens. So I really took that seriously. And my goddaughter's name is Ana Sophia, and she's now a mom of three. And it's just been a blessing to be in her life from the day she was born until today. She's one of my closest friends. I love her. And not only are we friends, but I'm also her dad, you know, in every aspect. And every time there's a challenge or a situation that she needs that fatherly advice and that guidance, I'm there for her. And we've just created such a beautiful bond. And it's changed meanings over the years, from me holding her in my arms when she was born to witnessing her go through her childhood, her adolescence, and her young adulthood and now. And so she's 34 years old, which is amazing.
Tony Cooper 03:19
Yeah, it's probably hard to believe, you know, and they say it goes by really quickly. But also, you know, you've been there for many decades of this person's life, and then your relationship develops. And as you were talking about that, Chris, I actually got chills in my body because I am a godfather, and I have taken it seriously, but I haven't really known what it is exactly. It's for my brother's child, and my brother is alive, and I haven't really known exactly how to step into whatever that role is. And as you were describing it, it was like an entire new category of dad opened up for me that I didn't see as possible before.
Chris Lee 03:53
Well, and I tell you, that a level of trust that she has in me, I mean, she tells me things she doesn't tell anybody. And when there's a problem with her mother, just like a dad, she comes to me. And when there's a breakdown, she comes to me. Plus, I've trained her and coached her in emotional intelligence. She's had this since she was a baby. She's done discovery, she's done breakthrough, she's done leadership, she's staffed multiple times. She enrolls people all the time. Her husband Rodrigo, who's amazing, from Mexico, actually went through discovery, breakthrough, leadership. Her whole family are graduates. I mean, we live and breathe emotional intelligence, which really creates a shortcut to handling any of life's curves, balls. When life throws a curveball, or there's an expectation that's unmet, which happens a lot, as a father and as a human being, being as a leader, then, you know, and most of you probably understand that are listening to this, that the problem's not the problem. What we do with the problem becomes the problem, or the blessing.
Tony Cooper 04:59
Yeah, yeah. And that's the power of interpretation. And when you talk about emotional intelligence, what are you referring to?
Chris Lee 05:13
I'm referring to navigating through my own emotional being, because every human being is an emotional being. We have an inner victim that activates in any given situation. And a lot of people, I love this because they're like, no, I'm not a victim. Well, right there, you're being a victim. Every time you react, every time you judge or judge yourself or judge other people or resist change or shrink, you give your power away. And emotional intelligence isn't really stopping that, because sometimes it just happens. It happens quicker than you can think, but it's learning to identify, oh my God, I'm losing my power, I'm losing my emotional intelligence, let me take a breath. And the shortcut back into emotional intelligence is always responsibility. When you blame others, when you blame people for your unhappiness or for your stress, you are being a victim and you are not practicing emotional intelligence. The minute you say I am responsible, literally you open up a whole new world for you. And that, to me, is emotional intelligence. It's taken responsibility for your own internal world, self-regulation, and also learning not to lose your shit or lose yourself over other people's lack of emotional intelligence, because I get this a lot: I'm emotionally intelligent until my wife isn't. I'm emotionally intelligent until my daughter isn't. It doesn't work that way.
Tony Cooper 06:58
Well, and that's where the victim takes over the responsibility, because when you say responsibility, it sounds like it's work to do, but you have a particular way in which you like to frame that word, responsible, and that changes the dynamic.
Chris Lee 07:26
It's basically, responsibility is my ability to respond. So it's response ability. So responsibility is not burden, it's not blame, it's not, oh, it's my fault. Sometimes it's not your fault, but you always have the ability to respond. And that emotional intelligence, Viktor Frankl, in his book Man's Search for Meaning, learned how to choose his interpretations, choose his responses in front of the catastrophe that he was going through, the Holocaust. After losing everything that he built, including his family, he found freedom in a concentration camp. And he basically, one of my favorite quotes is, between stimulus and response, there's a space, and in that space, I have a choice.
Tony Cooper 08:09
That's responsibility. Yeah. When you said before, it happens quicker than you can think. Right, because your inner victim isn't operating up in your cerebral cortex. Right, it's operating in an unconscious part of your survival mechanism, and it doesn't require processing, it just happens immediately. So it's the first of the party. It's the very first thing that happens when something goes shitty in your life. And so what you're talking about is that ability to create a space so that I go, I get to choose how I respond to whatever's showing up.
Chris Lee 08:49
When you think about what happened with Will Smith at the Oscars, that's a perfect prime example. So he was like everybody watching Chris Rock perform, and Chris Rock made a joke about Will Smith's wife. So Will Smith, in that moment, interpreted, right, the stimulus, the response interpretation was, he's humiliating my wife and me and my family. So that went straight into a trigger, which triggered rage, and it triggered the responses that occur when we are stressed or we are out of control or life throws a curveball, which is the automatic fight or flight or freeze. And where he went to was his automatic, which is fight. So he went and jumped on the stage, and we know the rest is history. But the point is that he may not have been able to handle his initial response to it. Right, his initial, what the bleep is happening here. But he could have then taken a deep breath in. Okay, how can I interpret this situation in a way that's empowering to me and to all? It's just a joke, it's not personal. And he could have even said, I'm responsible right there. That would have calmed his nervous system, lowered his stress response, and allowed him to make an objective choice, which was to just chill. And then maybe if Chris Rock crossed a boundary, he could have gone up to him later and said, hey, you know what, I know you didn't mean anything by it, but my wife is going through this situation with her skin, I think it's alopecia, and it's a really sensitive situation. Please be more conscious about jokes you make. End of story. But the reason why I bring that is because a lot of dads are in situations where they get triggered and their automatic response is always to protect and defend. Right, so it's fight, flight, or freeze. And so that doesn't allow us to be responsible, and that cuts off joy, it cuts off everything that we say we're about.
Tony Cooper 11:06
Yeah, and the responsibility part is, one, responsible for my interpretation. So Chris Rock tells a joke, I make it mean something, I can make it mean 500,000 different things, I chose one. So at least being clear that you're responsible for that, and then responsible for the decision you make, and then responsible for the actions after that. But the thing that you said before is, like, taking a deep breath, also being responsible, that when you can find yourself getting triggered, what's the power of taking a breath?
Chris Lee 11:43
Well, it pauses everything. And what it does is, I don't know the science behind it, but there's a science behind it, it lowers the response, it lowers the cortisol levels in your brain, it lowers all of the energetic fear-based energy. It just completely lowers it. And it allows you to create a moment of peace and a moment of awareness, because none of us with a hot head can make a clear decision. Right, it's like you can't see your reflection in boiling water.
Tony Cooper 12:19
That's a good one.
Chris Lee 12:19
So you gotta wait for the water to be calm, and then see reflection. So I'm not saying by any means false positivity, I'm not saying by any means avoid it. I'm saying regardless of what happens, you need to resolve it. Right, what happens is when you lose your EQ, emotional intelligence, and you're in reaction, every decision is based out of fear and based out of limiting beliefs. And that creates another problem, and another problem. Let's face it, in our bodies, it raises cortisol levels, it raises your heart rate, your blood pressure, it's just a constant attack on your body. And it's not sustainable, which is why we get sick, which is why we get depressed, which is why we get anxiety, which is why we are stressed out. Because when you are overly stressed, I'm not saying stressed, because stress is good sometimes, overly stressed, overly anxious, overly upset, overly angry, it's letting you know that you're not processing emotions and that you're not taking responsibility. The source of all stress is blaming. When you blame other people, and a point that I make is that it's not always your fault, sometimes it is. Look, Chris Rock said something that was negative, right, was not empowering. So it's not about Will Smith being responsible for what Chris Rock said, he's responsible only for his interpretation, choices, actions, and results. In other words, reaction.
Tony Cooper 13:56
Yeah, you're not responsible if someone cuts you off on the highway and crashes into you while you're minding your own business, but you're certainly responsible for not letting that create an aneurysm in your brain. Right?
Chris Lee 14:08
Right, I don't create any of the conditions outside of me, I create all the conditions inside of me.
Tony Cooper 14:08
Well, I don't agree with that. Sometimes you do create the conditions outside of you.
Chris Lee 14:23
Because sometimes your decisions could lead to a bankruptcy, or decisions could lead to a car accident because you were on the phone, right, you were on the phone, you were talking, you were not present. Sometimes you not being aware, taking the wrong step, can break your ankle. You know, there's all kinds of things that we do create out there, but there's a lot of things that have nothing to do with us. And so I think that it's harder to take responsibility for the things that have nothing to do with us than the things that do. For example, your wife cheated, that's not your fault, but you could take responsibility for the environment you created in your marriage. You could take responsibility for not providing whatever it is that she needed. You could take responsibility for how you're interpreting it, what you do with it. So that's where the power is. There's no power in blaming, and power to make decisions and to make choices and to correct things or build things.
Tony Cooper 15:29
Yeah, I don't know the science either about the breathing, but, you know, in that reaction, my body definitely wants to do something. And I know when I can take a deep breath, it has my body question whether or not this is a real life-or-death situation, because if I were able to breathe really deeply and slowly, clearly my life's not at stake.
Chris Lee 15:43
So it does, that's a good point. Yeah, that's a good point.
Tony Cooper 15:43
But to me, it just calms my emotions, literally, it does, it's a calming thing.
Chris Lee 15:53
If you notice in the workshops, I'm always saying, take a deep breath in, let it out, especially after a rough situation, because it regulates, I think breath is... and I don't do breath work, but there's, you know, people that do breath work can tell you that breath can regulate your nervous system.
Tony Cooper 16:16
Yeah, so your body has a reaction, but it's also informed by stories that you create, and many of them got created for you a long time ago. And one of the things that I love talking to other dads about is how they were raised, what's been passed down in their lineage, how they're automatically starting to just keep being the repetition of it, and what they can do to stop it. So I wanted to just look at the beginning of it. So where does the trauma come from? So something happens, my kid upsets me, and I lose my mind and start doing things that I regret later. What's the pattern behind that, that I could even start to see where it came from?
Chris Lee 16:46
Well, when you think about it, every child comes into the world as an open canvas, right. A child comes in the world with all the superpowers and all the gifts and everything beautiful. Like, I've never seen any child that is not the presence of God, like really just the beautiful manifestation of everything that's beautiful. And so what happens to that child is that child does not come into the world with any limiting beliefs. That child does not have a playbook yet, that child doesn't have any rackets, which is what we call the reaction to a limiting belief. It becomes a behavior racket. So we're only born with two fears. One is falling, and the other is loud noises. That means that every other fear has either been passed down, or we picked it up from someone, or we made it up on our own. And so thus the beginning of our generational trauma. So it comes from what we pick up from the people that are raising us, so mom, dad, siblings, kids at school, teachers, all of their limiting beliefs get passed on to us. In other words, their playbook. And that playbook is riddled with lies and limiting beliefs and outdated beliefs that may have served generations ago, but don't serve in the moment, because life is constantly evolving. The one thing constant is change. So I pick up all of my mom's rackets and limiting beliefs, I pick up my dad's rackets and limiting beliefs, plus I observe them together. And so all that plays into my own avatar that I create to protect myself. So the relationship between mom and dad affects me, I'm talking about all the negative stuff. If I'm the oldest, that affects me, if I'm the baby, that affects me, if I'm the middle child, only child, so if my mom was super dramatic, or she was a control freak, or she was judgmental, that all becomes part of my playbook. So I come in as this blank canvas, and I have all these people writing in it, like, here are the rules. And so the brain doesn't agree or disagree, the brain just goes with what it's told. And so then it becomes my belief. And then plus, traumatic things do happen, and a lot of them we forget. So trauma from kids making fun of you, bullying, if you were different, have you experienced any sort of verbal abuse, physical abuse, sexual abuse, all of that comes into play. And so all those situations create more evidence to back up the playbook. And so it isn't until you take the time to uncover and examine the beliefs that you don't break through it, which is why a podcast like this is so important, because we're having this conversation and people could go, okay, wait a minute, so if I came to the world as this blank canvas, as an unstoppable force, and my only two fears was falling and loud noises, where the hell did all the other ones come from, right?
Tony Cooper 20:08
And they came from your mom.
Chris Lee 20:08
Yeah, and your dad, and their mom and their dad, and it's religion and it's politics and it's gender and sexuality, and even your sports team creates rackets, everything that separates you from others. Because what happens is when you come into the world, you feel safe because you feel like you are one with everything around you. And little by little, those playbooks, or those agreements, as Don Miguel Ruiz claims in his book The Four Agreements, which is a very simple beginner's book for anyone who wants to step into emotional intelligence, you start picking up agreements, and you actually make those agreements as to how life is. And then what happens is that creates walls and barriers, and then we don't have the ability to reinvent ourselves unless we do the work.
Tony Cooper 21:11
Yeah, there's something interesting how it gets so embedded into us from external factors, but we internalize it and personalize it, and we make it mean it's who we are. Right, people go through life, you know, all the workshops you lead, and people go, that's just the way I am, like they have been hypnotized into believing there's something that they are. But why is it so easy for humans to forget our divinity, to forget who we were, this incredible being that we were born as?
Chris Lee 21:56
Two things: false rewards, recognition. So false rewards, a lot of times that negative behavior or those limiting beliefs bring me a payoff, and that payoff allows me to hang on to that belief. For example, if I'm a control freak and I take control, and that has led to a successful business and a lot of money, I believe that being controlling is the reason why that's there, not because of my superpowers, not because of my brilliance, not because of all the other things that I could bring and have the same results without the racket, without the control. And then the other thing is people validate us, because people like certainty, so they relate to us well, that's just the way they are, that's how he is. And it serves them and their limiting beliefs to keep you that way. So it's threatening when you break out of this, because what it does is that it challenges the delusion, and the delusion is, this is the way I am, as if you were a tree. You're not a tree, you are not a chair, you're a human being, and you have the possibility to reinvent yourself, and that's the power of transformation. I don't have to be who I was yesterday, not to be who I was an hour ago, like I could continuously bring forth who I could be based on who I choose to be. Who you are is how you choose to be. And the thing about who you choose to be that creates an energetic frequency around you, everything is energy. So if I'm choosing to be love, and I'm choosing to be confident, then I create a loving, confident vibe around me, and that creates a ripple effect, and that is the true law of attraction, because energy attracts energy. And so that impacts my health, my mental health, physical health, relationships, finances, business, it impacts everything. So we never get what we want, we get who we are.
Tony Cooper 23:45
Yeah, so how do you respond to this? So in the student group that you and I were working with last week, was it last week? I heard someone say something, I never heard a phrase like this before. It was essentially what you just said, which is the greatest lie we tell ourselves is that we have to be the same person we were five minutes ago. And so one of the things that I've seen get in the way of people really stepping into the versions of themselves that they want to be is they go, it feels inauthentic. We had a whole conversation around that.
Chris Lee 24:20
Yeah, well, that's another racket. I don't want to fake being positive, I don't want to fake being loving. And my response to that is, you're not faking it, you're accessing it. There's a difference between pretending to be confident and choosing confidence. Pretending is you don't believe it, choosing is you believe it and you own it, and you're accessing it. And so you can't fool the universe, because there's a lot of people fooling the universe, pretending confidence, pretending joy, and they're not, pretending authenticity, and they're liars. And sooner or later you can't get away with it, because everything is context. You could plant an orchid in a desert, but if you don't have the environment for that orchid, the desert will kill it. So people could get lucky and have an orchid here and there in a desert, but it's not sustainable. So when you choose it and you believe it, you become it, and that creates the energy. And what I want people to remember is everything is a choice. I'm not saying to fake anything, because I don't fake anything, I choose it. I don't always feel it, I don't always feel confident or joyful or loving or powerful, I choose it.
Tony Cooper 25:50
Where does that come from, what's the pool of energy or confidence you can pull from in making that choice when you're not feeling it?
Chris Lee 25:50
Knowing that I, the authentic me, is that already. So if I know that the authentic me, the real me, which is spirit, because I'm not my body, I'm not my brain, I'm not my mistakes, I'm not my career, I'm not my title, I am spirit, I am energy, and spirit is unbreakable, spirit is undamageable, spirit is free and unstoppable. So if I relate to myself as that's who I really am, and I have access to all the superpowers, then I'm never faking it, I'm just choosing it from that pool.
Tony Cooper 26:44
Right, like it's not that I'm going to pretend to be confident, I'm going to remember that I'm already confident and then show up that way.
Chris Lee 26:44
Yes, and when you choose it, you become it, then you feel it, then you manifest it and attract it. You know, we project all of those limiting beliefs and all those negative thought patterns in every single relationship we're in.
Tony Cooper 27:11
And so it often seems like, at least for men, that the stakes only get high enough to want to change it if it's like in a business setting or something like that. I'm not getting the promotion that I want, I'm not getting the success that I want. Or when you become a father and your area of interest is this protection and these little kids, and actually I was just thinking about something as you were saying, all that never crossed my mind before, but I wonder if there's some subliminal resentment that fathers or parents have when they see this little baby who's not impacted by the world yet, that doesn't have fear, doesn't have these things. And it's sort of like, I can sort of remember what that was like, but that was taken away from me. And then there's like another level of, how you can be mad at your kid is so bananas to me. If you have your baby in a hospital, you leave the hospital, the thing the nurses will say to you is, don't shake the baby. And I remember hearing that, I'm going, what idiot would shake their baby, that's ridiculous. But then you get home, you don't know what you're doing, the baby has all these needs, it can't communicate, and there's something that comes up, it almost sort of seems like a good idea. And it's, thank God that was embedded in me, like don't do that. Not that I would, but it was crazy that the impulse actually came up. And so I think that's where the stakes start to get high enough for a man, for a dad, to go, okay, I think I need to do some work. And then they go, I don't even know the first place to start. Where do you begin on that journey?
Chris Lee 28:56
I think therapy is great for someone who's starting out their journey that wants that kind of support, therapy is great, coaching is great, seminars like the ones that I offer are amazing. There are books they could read, there are podcasts that they could listen to, like this one. Now, more than ever, there's a lot of resources available for people that want to reinvent themselves, that want to handle the stress that's coming up. I think what happens, when you're back to the point of the jealousy of the child or the envy, I don't think it's that, I think it's more guilt. I think it's like, you know what, wow, this is such a beautiful little child, and I'm having these thoughts, like what's wrong with me, like why would I even go there? And I think that if we're willing to peel the onion, we could really look at that. All the child is doing is reminding you of what you lost. Because the other thing about a child that is different than a man, or most men, is a child will express what they want in the moment, a child will express their needs in the moment, a child will process their emotions in the moment. And a lot of men grew up with a playbook of, men don't cry, being vulnerable is gay or weak, I gotta toughen up, I can't give myself the luxury of feeling my feelings, I'm gonna work my way through this, or work out my way through this, or rearrange the furniture through this, and avoid my emotions. And children, as you know, if they're hungry, you know it, if they're sad, you know it, if they're pissed off, you know it, they will belt out a scream into the universe and stop traffic, and a second later be filled with this overwhelming joy and love and freedom, that you're like, oh my God, my child's schizophrenic. No, your child's not schizophrenic, your child has a built-in mechanism that's in all of us to process emotions, by experience, just feeling them and letting them experience it, feel it, and release. And a lot of our dis-ease as men is unprocessed emotions, because you are holding it in. And another vehicle for processing emotion is communication, expressing what you're feeling, not waiting for it to build, build, build rage, because now you're doing it in a destructive way, and you already did the damage to your body.
Tony Cooper 31:24
Yeah, I've been asking a lot of the dads to describe their father and what the impact was on them. And there is something that you were talking about with the feeling, which is a lot of men got the message from the men in their life that feelings are not okay to experience. That's that trauma that comes through us, that's unconscious, that's sort of like, that's just the way it is. And if this child, especially it's a male child, is starting to feel feelings, well then they're going to grow up to be weak and they're not going to be a real man, and I have to impart this wisdom of the ages down to this child. And that's how it passes on, that's the delivery system, is that it was taught to me, so therefore I do that. And as you were talking about before, Viktor Frankl, there's no space to actually choose and think about what do you really want to impart to this child, and how do you want to raise this child. And so going back to the beginning, it's so important to be able to just stop, and I get it, there's a lot of pressure, there's chaos, you don't know what you're doing, you're sleepless, there's a lot going on in the first several months of a child's life. But it's like that unresolved rage I have towards my dad, who had it toward his dad, that's another thing that gets passed on, like it all just comes up, and it's like you can feel powerless to stop it.
Chris Lee 32:58
Well, you're triggered, and what happens is that when you have a new child, it's, you know, every two hours waking up, every four hours, you don't sleep, you're stressed out, and it comes to a point where the child is annoying, it's like, oh my God. You know, I was just with a friend of mine who is a new dad, and I could just see him, like, really applying his emotional intelligence in the entire equation, which really made a big difference, because he was able to deal with the trigger, understand it, and that trigger was no longer there. And it was like he developed a whole new level of patience that he didn't have before. But yeah, you learn from who teaches you, and your teachers are mom, dad, et cetera. And so a lot of dads have dads that were not involved, that were not part of it, was like, that's your deal. And so I know there's a new awareness where dads are way more involved these days than they were back in the day, or a generation ago, or several generations ago. But there's still like this feeling of inadequacy that comes up, like, am I holding the child right, am I changing them right, like they're going to break. And, you know, all of this requires education, all this requires learning, taking the time to not wing it, like take the time, do the due diligence, the same way you'll do it for your business. You get to do it now as a dad, on so many levels, whether it's the emotional level, or the belief structures, or the energy, or how I choose to participate.
Tony Cooper 34:54
But we basically copy our teachers.
Chris Lee 34:54
Yes, we do, without even awareness.
Tony Cooper 34:54
The beauty so far on this podcast is being able to talk to dads, like the dads you're talking about, the ones who have done the work, have created the awareness, have changed their patterns, have owned those limiting beliefs, rewritten them, and showed up who they want to be. What a great moment in time that there's a whole bunch of dads who have done that. What I personally experienced, and a lot of the dads I talked to, is they did, but only after the kids became conscious enough to pick it all up. And so while they became who they wanted to be as a father, it was, in my estimation, a little later in the game than is fulfilling upon the vision of, like, wouldn't it be amazing to, like you were just talking about your friend, do the work before you become a dad, do the work once you're a young dad, because the early years, the kids really don't remember any of that, and there's a whole new level of, like, talk about a pit of transformation opportunity right there when the baby's really young. And so that's really the vision of what I am hoping to get out of this podcast, is giving either dads who are becoming dads, or new dads on the journey, the opportunity to go through these changes early enough that they don't impart that damage to their kids.
Chris Lee 36:14
And another place that the damage gets picked up, that we have not talked about, is how the dad treats the mom. If your significant other, your wife, your baby mama, if you're not married, if the dad mistreats the mom in any way, that affects the child and affects the environment, and the child, even though you say they don't remember, but they feel. So the feeling memory gets created, and there's a memory bank of feelings. And so the environment that gets created by the parents and that relationship affects the child. So it's really important that the relationship you have with your wife is one of love and respect and honor and compassion. Because no matter what the guy does, or how much he reads and understands, the dad is never going to really understand what the mom went through, by carrying the child for nine months, went through by giving birth, and is going through on a physical and emotional level for the first two years of that child's life. So, talk about emotional roller coaster, I mean, we could talk at the mom's podcast, that's a whole other separate conversation. But it's really important that the dad takes the lead in emotional intelligence, takes the lead in curating an environment at home for the sake of everyone. So one thing I recommend is creating a family vision. The mom and the dad, new child just arrived, okay, let's create a vision, what's the environment that we are committed to creating for each other, for our child, and for this home. Because remember, the child is stepping into your world. And so to create an environment, you would get to be intentional. So creating a vision is establishing, we are creating an environment of, and pick, I don't know, five words that represent the energy that gets to be experienced in that home, and then come up with, I don't know, ten non-negotiables, which is specific actions or specific requests. Non-negotiable, negativity in the house. Non-negotiable, screaming at each other. Non-negotiable, being on the phone while you're in front of the child. Non-negotiable, there's a list, depending on the needs that the family has. But have that, write it out, both sign it, and frame it in the living room, or somewhere we could see it. And so that's gonna reduce a lot of drama, a lot of fights, a lot of stress, and that will create an emotionally intelligent home.
Tony Cooper 39:35
I love it. Right below the marriage certificate is the commitment to how we're going to live, the visionary couple, the vision.
Chris Lee 39:35
Yeah, the vision that sets up the environment, and the ten non-negotiables of what that vision requires. And so then if there's a breakdown, we just look at, okay, which one are we missing here, okay, I didn't do number three, got it. And then that way there's no back and forth and drama of, covered up, and, you know, we both agreed, we both signed, we know how to read, you know. And so that's important, but that's something that I really believe dads need to learn, is how to be with the moms. Because I've also witnessed, you know, situations where the dad, stressed out, takes it on the mom, and the dad says things like, you're this, you're that, or judges the mom, because, of course, armchair quarterback, you've heard that one, where you're not in the trenches with the mom, as she's feeding her child or changing the child or whatever. And then the dad, from the sideline, critiquing, it's not even with bad intention, sometimes the right intentions land in the wrong way.
Tony Cooper 40:40
In the same way that, you know, how we were treated as kids is how we all tend to treat our kids, in the same way you were just saying, is that actually what I witnessed in the dynamic between my parents is what I'll unconsciously start doing, I'll just start repeating the same pattern of my parents' dynamic without awareness.
Chris Lee 41:06
100%, and so we end up becoming parrots. And I love this, because I get this in trainings a lot, where people go, I'm never gonna be like my mom, and then they're like, oh my God, I've channeled my mom, I've channeled my dad, I'm never gonna be like my dad. And so the dad becomes a combo between mom and dad. You know, dad was a workaholic, then most likely you'll be a workaholic. If dad was someone who was very reactive, then you'll pick that up. If dad was critical, you'll become critical. In other words, we basically repeat what we learned until we interrupt it. And that's the good thing about having a podcast like this, to be able to really just take a breath and just kind of look at, okay, what's the playbook, and here's the good news, it's never too late to create a new playbook, and to decide what's my vision, what are the things that I want to create as a dad.
Tony Cooper 42:00
Yeah, you brought up too about having empathy or understanding of the experience of the mom, we have no idea. And frankly, if it were up to the male of the species to have children, this would be the last generation, there'd be no way. I mean, there might be a few who'd be willing to go through it, but you'd have one kid and you're like, never again.
Chris Lee 42:17
No, I mean, it's something that we will never understand, physically, emotionally, and also, it's so interesting, having watched the biological miracle that is birth, that just inside of this woman's body, she grows a being, nourishes it the whole time, it rearranges her whole internal organ system, it moves all the essential organs up, other than the bladder, the bladder remains under the uterus, that it keeps getting pressed and pressed and pressed, so that they wake up all night long because they have to pee, so that it trains them to be awake to feed their kid. Like it's a miracle, no way was it designed by a human being, like it's truly miraculous.
Tony Cooper 42:50
It's miraculous, and then all the hormones that get shifted in order to do all of that, and then birth the child, and then nourish the child with the same body, it's mind-blowing.
Chris Lee 43:07
But the hormones run all that, but they also change the brain chemistry, and if you were being critical, you'd say, oh, she's acting crazy. You know what biology is doing? It's training you to deal with the irrationality of a child. It's the same thing, it's like, man, if you're really paying attention, this is a brilliant, magical system to be in.
Tony Cooper 43:22
It's great, it's great that we're even talking about it, because most people don't look at it from the mother's point of view.
Chris Lee 43:54
And so part of the EQ of being a dad isn't just dealing with a kid, but learning how to deal with the woman who gave birth to your child, and creating the most beautiful, compassionate, keyword, understanding, supportive environment. Yeah, no, your wife's not crazy, she gave birth, no, she's not overreacting, her hormones are upside down.
Tony Cooper 44:04
So it's really easy to look at her through our filters and what we're feeling, or what our playbook was.
Chris Lee 44:28
But the level of compassion is necessary. If that isn't the thing that probably gets us stuck all the time, is that we always forget to look at it through someone else's perspective, just making it, we're right, the way I see it is the way it is. And there's no growth, well first of all, there's no emotional intelligence in that, but there's also no opening for growth, and you know, that's the ego. So as a dad, we gotta be mindful of the ego, and what's the ego, the ego needs to be right, the ego needs to be in control, the ego needs to look good, the ego needs to dominate, because we feel the false reward is we feel like we have the upper hand in life, and that we have the winning hand. And sometimes being wrong is the winning hand, and not having it figured out, so it requires giving up our ego to be the most successful, emotionally intelligent dad possible.
Tony Cooper 45:15
Yeah, a coach of mine a number of years ago said to me, Tony, you could be right or you could be happy, pick one.
Chris Lee 45:25
Right, I was like, I hate that. That's your quote from Wayne Dyer, choose kind versus right.
Tony Cooper 45:25
Yeah, and I love what becomes possible when you stop being right, just open yourself, there's learning, there's joy, there's confidence, all kinds of things happen when you give up being right.
Chris Lee 45:41
There's no learning in right, I love being wrong, I love going, oh my God, I had that off, I was off about that, because that opens the door for new explorations, new possibilities.
Tony Cooper 45:50
Yeah, and nothing like a child or being a dad for an endless journey of joy, if you choose to see it that way. One of the things that my dad did for me, that was awesome, when I was a kid, I think I was like 12, and he had asked me a question about something, and I did my typical, I didn't know what the answer was, but I came up with something, and he clearly saw right through it, and he just stopped me, goes, it's okay to say I don't know. And I'll tell you, Chris, when he said that, it never crossed my mind that it was okay to say I don't know.
Chris Lee 46:13
That's liberating, actually liberated.
Tony Cooper 46:13
I'll tell you, there's little moments like that of impact that we get to have on the development of a child.
Chris Lee 46:29
100%, and you know what, there's nothing more beautiful than a vulnerable dad, than an open dad, than a loving dad, because that's what kids need, and that's who we are, we are love, at the end of the day, the answer to all of it is love.
Tony Cooper 46:43
Yeah, Chris, you have been an agent of transformation for thousands and thousands of people, you do it all the time, and I know you talk about, you always put yourself first, you always say, hey, I'm not going to ask anybody else to do anything I haven't done. So what's a big thing that got embedded in you, in the same way we're talking about it, when you were a kid, through your parenting situation, that you carried through your life, until it became something that you needed to be different, and what was that, and how did you break through that?
Chris Lee 47:30
I always felt that I had to earn my worth. So I always got positive reinforcement when I got good grades, positive reinforcement when I did well in sports, positive reinforcement when I would finish my food on my plate. So I always felt that my worthiness had to be earned, and so I spent my whole life proving it, trying to prove that I'm worthy. And the downfall of when I wouldn't hit something, or I would not get the grade, or not win the sport, or not be number one, or not be the one who got it right, or not be perfect, the fall was so intense that I would beat myself up, and I would feel like a piece of crap and I'm not good enough. And so learning, through coaching, and I had lots of support growing up, but mostly through these trainings, learning that I am worthy period, because end of story, was the most incredible thing in my life. Because I thought also, since I was always different, Jewish in a Latino environment, American, and the list goes on, I always felt that I had to be a different person to be liked and to be worthy. And so learning to embrace my difference, so that I'm different than everybody else, and that I'm unique and that I'm special, that I am worthy, period, end of story, has allowed me so much freedom.
Tony Cooper 49:00
Yeah, I hear the difference you're saying is that worth was tied to the result of doing something, then you just shifted and going, well, what if I just brought my worth into everything that I did, the worth was already embedded, so regardless of how it turned out, it didn't impact your sense of self-worth.
Chris Lee 49:00
Well, it shifted my ability to dream big, because it kept me small, because I was like, oh my God, if I can't control the result and I don't hit it, but I'm a piece of crap, versus I could go big and swing out and go for the biggest goals, and if I would fall, that's okay, I'm still amazing, right, I'm still a rockstar, I'm still special, I'm still unique, I'm still a billionaire, you know, and that's a rewiring, because a lot of us are designed that way. You know, I had a friend who grew up in an Asian household, they were from Japan, and she said that anything other than an A-plus in her home was an F.
Tony Cooper 50:01
Yeah, you're only as good as your last grade.
Chris Lee 50:01
No, an A was like an Asian F, she would say. And so she grew up with this need of having to be perfect, and that caused depression, anxiety, eating disorders, et cetera, et cetera, until she came to the trainings and realized, you know what, I don't have to earn my worth, I'm already worthy. I could be overweight and worthy, I could be rich and worthy, I could be poor and worthy, my worth is not negotiable. And so, so cool to see it play out in front of me, because that was my breakthrough.
Tony Cooper 50:58
Yeah, that's beautiful, that's beautiful. So I always like to wrap up by having my guests think back to the origin of becoming a dad, and imparting some simple wisdom or advice, into, if I'm a brand new dad and I'm just starting this journey, regardless of whatever, you know, all the transformation we've been talking about, I don't know where they are in their journey, but there's always a new moment, and when you step into being a new dad, what guidance or advice would you offer?
Chris Lee 50:59
A couple things, one is focus on the blessings, and that every single moment is a blessing, the fact that you're a dad, the fact that you have a child, the fact that you're alive, the fact that you're breathing, like that already is a blessing. And the second thing is, don't be afraid to make mistakes, because you're not going to get it right, you're going to mess it up. And, like I like to teach people, when they mess things up, give it a yes, why is it a yes, because every mess-up leads to a blessing, every breakdown leads to an opportunity, as long as we're willing to take a breath, choose an interpretation that's empowering, and learn from it, because what you don't learn, repeats.
Tony Cooper 51:42
Yeah, yeah, and that worth that you're talking about, like, you bring that worth into what you're doing, regardless of how it turns out, you're there, you have this child, you've got gratitude, like you being there is enough, it's not a doing thing, that's really awesome. Thank you, Chris, thank you so much for your time, for your wisdom, and for all the work you do in the world, I just love and appreciate you so much, so thank you.
Chris Lee 52:01
I appreciate you, thank you to the audience that's listening, and what a blessing to be able to have these conversations. These conversations are necessary, I love you Tony, your family, everything you're about, you are someone that inspires people in so many ways that people don't even know, but I'm so blessed to be in your life, thank you.
Tony Cooper 52:29
All right, so I know people are going to go, how do I learn more about Chris Lee, I want to, because I know you're an author, so we'll share your book, and I know that you do lots of podcasts with Lewis, so we'll share those as well, that other people can find those.
Chris Lee 52:53
Okay, so you could get my book, Transform You, 10 Principles of Abundance and Prosperity, at Amazon, it's in English, it's in Spanish, it's in Audible in my voice, it's in Kindle. The other way you can get a hold of me is through alaeq, which is the website for Ascension Leadership Academy, and you can check out our courses. You can follow me on Instagram, ChrisLeeMotivator, and also Facebook, Chris Lee, Motivational Trainer, and I'm one of the most featured guests on the podcast of The School of Greatness, which is the School of Greatness Lewis Howes podcast, and you could find that anywhere podcasts are listened to.
Tony Cooper 53:22
Yes, awesome, well thank you again, Chris, I will, until next time, appreciate you.
Chris Lee 53:27
Bye bye.
Tony Cooper 53:27
I just want to thank you for listening to this episode of the Dad Manual podcast, and for supporting dads to become the best version of themselves, as they strive to bring healing and inspiration to their families. I'm looking to grow a community of fathers who are ready to change the world, but I need your help. It's super valuable to the podcast when you like an episode, when you leave us a rating and subscribe to our YouTube channel, when you follow us on Instagram, the Dad Manual podcast, and maybe even the most important, when you share the podcast with the dad you love. Also, you can impact what we talk about here, if you've got questions or topics you want me to explore, email them to me at [e-mail]. I would love to answer your question on our next episode. And until next time, I'm Tony Cooper, and this is the Dad Manual podcast.