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As the CEO of Kit, Nathan Barry has a front row seat to what’s working in the most successful creator businesses.
On The Nathan Barry Show, he interviews top creators and dives into the inner workings of their businesses in his live coaching sessions.
You get unique insight into how creator businesses work and what you can do to increase results in your own business.
One of the things Nathan is passionate about is helping you create leverage.
Creator Flywheels let you create many copies of yourself so you don’t get bogged down with the little things in your business. Flywheels will help you reach a place where you can focus on revenue instead of busywork.
Tune in weekly for new episodes with ideas and tips for growing your business. You’ll hear discussions around building an audience, earning a living as a creator, and Nathan’s insights on scaling a software company to $100M.
Learn how to get more results with less effort and:
Grow faster over time.
Work less hard over time.
Make more money over time.
[00:00:00] Colin: This is the biggest opportunity in media.
[00:00:03] Nathan: But you're saying if you just do it consistently for a long enough period of time, like you're going to unlock this?
[00:00:08] Colin: Absolutely.
[00:00:08] Nathan: Even with 800 followers, you could sell $50,000 in services. It's really just three steps, and you can even use just your phone. So the three steps to take short form video seriously are first, break the seal, second when the edit, and then third
[00:00:22] Colin: taking it through these steps.
[00:00:24] All of a sudden you come outta the other side. Having never made a video, never made a short form video. We've now got the chops. Having something interesting to say in the text goes a long way. Something that we always see people get traction with is,
[00:00:36] Nathan: I like that a lot when it comes to hooks. Colin teaches three keys.
[00:00:39] He says it's crucial for at least one of those. To be really good.
[00:00:43] Colin: It really comes down to like adding qualifiers to the hook in the video itself that make the value that you're delivering relevant to a specific person who's suffering from that.
[00:00:52] Nathan: By the end of this episode, you'll walk away with a very clear, actionable plan.
[00:00:56] You'll understand why daily posting matters, how to make strong hooks, and how to simplify your short form strategy.
[00:01:02] Colin: I will never again do a business where I don't have short form as like the primary driver of getting attention leads in the overall marketing strategy. It's that big of a deal. I like that.
[00:01:15] Nathan: Colin, welcome to the show. Thank you for having me. All right, so up on the board, we have the main thing that we're gonna teach, which is take short form video. Seriously. We'll get into hooks, we'll get into all of the things. On the how to side of things, but I wanna start with why, why should someone take Shortform seriously?
[00:01:30] Colin: I think that the, uh, the opportunity with the algorithms on, like Instagram reels and TikTok in particular right now are a generational media opportunity for entrepreneurs, marketers, and the like. And that's kinda what's driving the conversation.
[00:01:45] Nathan: So I've seen a lot of people maybe two or three years ago, go all in on Instagram or all in on, on short form in general, and it take off and, and like pay off for them in a huge way where they're now a million plus followers.
[00:01:57] A thriving, I guess, more important than the followers. A million dollar a year plus in revenue business off of that. But there's this idea that you might be late, right? Like that worked before, it's not working now. You had to have been the person to like stack the bricks and build this up before. Tell me how you're seeing that.
[00:02:15] 'cause you're also seeing a lot of people. Start brand new in the last, you know, six months, three months in your latest cohort of the course and get traction. What, what do you think about the timing of this whole game?
[00:02:26] Colin: I think the nature of the beast is that things change significantly over time. The algo changes, uh, human preference changes and that kind of drives the fact that saturation is, is a, a myth.
[00:02:37] Mm-hmm. Combined with, with bringing a unique perspective to this. Right. If you wanna show up and make fitness videos, um, and, and, uh, and don't add anything on top of that and don't bring a unique perspective, then it probably is too late for that. Whereas it might've worked three, four, or five, five years ago, but really it will never be too late if you're doing something novel and interesting.
[00:02:57] Um, on any of these platforms or, or YouTube or, or similar,
[00:03:00] Nathan: gimme an example of one or two students in your Cut 30 program, which we'll get into, explain what that is and how it works. But people who have, who like transformed either their life or business through creating short form video.
[00:03:11] Colin: I like to give our, our biggest success story, um, as an example, only to say that it will definitely not happen to you if you, if you start making videos, um, or if you say cut 30.
[00:03:21] But our biggest success story in cut 30 is Hans Lori. Yeah, I know him. And yeah, he is got, I think, 650,000 followers now. Um, he's massive. He started with literally zero, like started a new Instagram account. Um, and he's, he's completely crushed. Um, but my favorite thing about cut 30 is that it doesn't take a half million, 600,000 followers, and it doesn't take videos with one, five, 10 million views in order to have a huge impact on your business.
[00:03:48] Nathan: So diving into Hans, for example, so he's a designer, like interior design, all of that, he cares about amazing aesthetic. He does the same format of video pretty much where he's. Diving into a, a particular style or he'll have a, uh, a video on like why you should take more risks in your interior design.
[00:04:06] Yeah. I love
[00:04:07] Colin: his stuff. Yeah.
[00:04:07] Nathan: And, and it's all green screen talking head. He's got the mic that he is holding, you know, he does the same thing every time and he delivers on these hooks. He's able to. Actually, that'd be interesting to get into later. Have these amazing visuals in his background that change because they're effectively just slides, you know, of all these different images.
[00:04:24] But talk a little more, uh, about Hans in particular and then how he builds a business on the backend. Like what's he actually selling with that attention?
[00:04:32] Colin: Yeah, so I'm not sure exactly what he does outside of increasing the demand and, uh, and ticket on his interior design services. I know he's, he's looked at some different info models and whatnot.
[00:04:42] I'm not sure what he's doing on that front. Um, but it worked particularly well for him because, uh, what he does is so visual in nature. Mm-hmm. Right. Um, you see a lot of graphic designers, interior designers. Architects, uh, things that are visual are inherently, um, work well for short form and for content in general, I guess.
[00:05:03] Um, but what he's nailed is finding his own format, which is like akin to finding a voice. Right. And you just described it. It's not super high production value. It is very consistent. Right? It's, it's, it's basically these muted slides behind him. One of my favorite things about what he does is he always has this weird glare on his glasses.
[00:05:22] Uh, early on in cut 30, we were like, you gotta do something about that. He just, he just went for it. And, you know, 500, 600 videos later, it's, it's still there. Um, um, but it, it's proof in the pudding that, like, my favorite thing about Shortform is that it kind of strips the production value out of the equation and it forces you to just bring actual value and, and bring meat to the content and, uh, and not use fancy edits or expensive cameras as a crutch.
[00:05:48] Nathan: There's so much I wanna get into, but what's an example of someone maybe on the other end of the spectrum who. Has built a small audience of the right people and it's made an impact in their business. I know there's people who work in services, all kinds of things, um, who have gone through cut 30.
[00:06:02] Colin: So my favorite one of these, we were talking about this beforehand, so it's it's tip of my tongue.
[00:06:07] It's this guy in the UK who makes websites for construction companies. It's one man shop, not a huge business, but he did cut 30, his name's Ben, I don't remember his handle. Sorry, Ben. Um, he did cut 30. He never got a video over 1500 or 2000 views. Uh, I think last I looked, he had 900 or 1100 followers, something like this.
[00:06:28] Not, not our best, uh, case study in a lot of ways, but Ben, in cut 30 in. That first 30 days of like taking this stuff seriously, had to stop making videos because he got overwhelmed with business. And, and I, it is just like such proof in the pudding. We're talking about the right people seeing your content mm-hmm.
[00:06:46] Earlier and if, if, if you make websites for construction companies in a specific market, you don't need a million people to see your video. Right. Right. You need like a marketing manager or an owner or a CEO of that of said construction company to see it and be like, man, I could really be doing better with this.
[00:07:04] And, and you're booked up for the year. I don't know what that looks like. If he's got a 10 person team and a whole agency to feed again, he's like a, a, a one person contractor. But literally he had to stop. Um, and last I looked at his profile, he still hadn't posted. So I assume business is good and there's a whole thing of
[00:07:19] Nathan: how we get him to like, convince him to keep that flywheel going while maintaining the, but like one thing at a time, he, he showed up to cut 30 and we'll explain what that is in a moment.
[00:07:29] Yeah. But in order to solve a problem. He's like, I have services to, to supply to the world and not enough demand. I have excess supply. Yeah. Uh, you know, not enough demand. And, and that problem has solved so much that he was like, oh, that actually worked a little too well.
[00:07:45] Colin: Yeah. And he also didn't have like robust video experience or camera equipment or any of this stuff.
[00:07:50] Um, he really just knew he should be communicating about what he does, um, in a modern way online, and it turns out it works. I love that.
[00:07:58] Nathan: Okay, I wanna back up a little bit. And when you started cut 30. You, you've worked on a bunch of different things and, and this is all a side project for you. And so what are the things that you were working on before and like how do you spend your time outside of the side hustle of teaching hundreds or thousands of, of, uh, content creators how to grow online?
[00:08:16] Yeah.
[00:08:16] Colin: Coming up on 2000, I think probably next one. Um, so I've been a, I'm a marketing guy, uh, have been all my life and worked a lot in consumer brands. Um, that's where, uh, my other main business, uh, lives is, is in consumer. And for me, the content journey, I think we met on Twitter when it was still called Twitter.
[00:08:34] Um, and having made content for brands or for clients or whatever it may be, my entire career since I was like 20. Um, I at some point, uh, had this, this inkling to make content for myself. Um, that started on Twitter, like I said, and then fast forward a couple years that worked. It was very fruitful, um, as, as many people know.
[00:08:55] And then I basically had this group chat with myself, Orrin, um, Orrin Travel, Orrin Meets World, um, and Alex Garcia. Uh, if you are in the, the Twitter sphere, I guess certainly that elk of it. Uh, you, you probably are familiar, we had this group text where we were all just attacking short-form video and talking about it, like what's working?
[00:09:15] What apps were we using? So on and so forth. Um, and every single day we're all in there sharing, sharing our experiences. And um, at some point it was like, we should just put all of this together. And, and teach other people. I, I think for me it was this light bulb moment of I had this running note stock, and I think the fourth or the fifth time where I had just like, copy and pasted this massive note into a text message to a friend, it was like, okay, maybe we should like, because someone's saying,
[00:09:42] Nathan: I see what
[00:09:43] Colin: you're doing.
[00:09:43] Yeah. I
[00:09:44] Nathan: wanna do it as well. Yeah. Gimme the best tips you like, and it's just
[00:09:46] Colin: a bo it's like, you know, it's like five minutes of scrolling, right? It's, it's, uh, unwieldy. I don't know why I wasn't just sharing a note anyway. Um, like it was this, maybe we should like put this together mm-hmm. And, uh, in a more shareable way.
[00:09:58] And if we did that, like maybe other people would get value from it, maybe we do a thing. And so the, the, the first version of this business, um, was very much a side project. It's getting less and less so these days, but it was a notion, doc. It was like 250 bucks. And then we're like, and we'll do some zooms too, like that, right?
[00:10:18] It was like, we're gonna do some zooms where we talk about this stuff and we're gonna share this, this big unwieldy notion, doc, that was, I think we're on session 18. Um, and then as of recently, especially the realization is like, we've got a really good thing here. We've, we've taught almost 2000, uh, creators, aspiring creators and brands, marketing managers, founders, these kind of people.
[00:10:39] How to do short form video. Um, and it is such a big deal that we're kind of in the process of shifting and, and taking it more seriously and hiring some people. And, uh, for me it's my first foray into like info and education. Uh, my mom's a teacher, so there's this element of it that I really like. I also really like the, the margins.
[00:10:57] Yeah. Um, uh, coming from a consumer product background, you're over here. What have I been doing? You're like, I've
[00:11:02] Nathan: got supply chain issues, I've got low margins. Oh my gosh, I've, gosh, I've got supply. You know, all this stuff. And you're like, wait a second, you all are just selling this at like 95% gross margin.
[00:11:10] Literally like,
[00:11:11] Colin: wait a second. Yeah. Um, so we're, we're kind of leaning into it, um, both based on the success we've had, um, uh, kind of half-assing it as well as just the, the need. Um, and it's, it's not going anywhere. I think most compelling thing about it to me is in this day and age, like you still have entire armies of creators who are.
[00:11:33] Just on X, just on YouTube doing YouTube, but not really attacking, um, shorts or TikTok or Instagram. Um, as well as brands and businesses who, um, who do nothing or still treating it like a, like it's their portfolio and posting photos. Um, like it's 2015. So,
[00:11:52] Nathan: so today cut 30 is roughly a thousand dollars product where people are paying to get the training and then the accountability to show up every day for 30 days straight and produce a short form video and learn, really learn through doing.
[00:12:06] Yes. Yes. Right. You're not saying in the academic world, you're like, look, the only way you're gonna get good at this is if you get your hands dirty. Is that right? Yes,
[00:12:12] Colin: absolutely. And I think a question we get a lot is like, well, should I just like, have somebody that works for me do this or, or hire somebody to do this?
[00:12:19] Um, and to, to which I say everything that you do in a business as an entrepreneur, uh, uh. It is easier to manage it, delegate it, outsource it, whatever it may be, if you understand it deeply, um, or at least at a, at a surface level. So we get founders every day that want to just offload it, that I bully into joining, actually showing up and doing it themselves, um, and doing it.
[00:12:40] And, and it, it works every time. Like, it, it's so much more impactful when you get in there and, and get your hands on it,
[00:12:46] Nathan: um, yourself. I mean, that's such an interesting thought. 'cause I would have the same approach. Like I deeply understand the value of the content. I understand how important the algorithms are and like what the opportunity is that we can have.
[00:12:58] But like I run a hundred person company and so I'm like, oh, even though I wanna pursue this, you know, it'd be like, oh, let me have someone on my team Yeah. Take cut 30. Yeah. And I think what you'd say is like, yeah, absolutely. They should alongside you.
[00:13:11] Colin: Yeah. I mean, really. Right. And, and like people are like, well, I don't wanna learn how to be an editor.
[00:13:15] It's like. The, the power of your phone in your pocket, what you can do on it. Like, do you also want to like not take a photo of your kid when they're doing something cute? 'cause you're not a photographer, right? And like, I think that is like that in a microcosm is, is what we try and enable is, is capturing that and then making it something useful.
[00:13:33] Right? It we're not teaching anybody Da Vinci or Premier or Final Cut. Um, we are just teaching, uh, how to make compelling content and really like how to move with the internet in 20 25, 20 26. 'cause it's very, very different from five years ago even.
[00:13:50] Nathan: Yeah. So with that, we're gonna dive into what it means to take short form.
[00:13:52] Seriously. We'll get up on the board in a second. And that matters for every creator, whether you're doing it yourself or you're saying, look, I'm at the scale of a million dollars a year in revenue. I'm gonna hire people to do it. And it's like, well you need to still understand these.
[00:14:06] Colin: Yeah, absolutely. It's worth it.
[00:14:08] It's worth it. I think we're talking before, like this is the biggest opportunity in media. Like, I, I will not be convinced otherwise. Yeah, right. Like, because you
[00:14:17] Nathan: firsthand examples again and again where you're like, yeah,
[00:14:19] Colin: people blowing it and, and like, like you get to make a piece of media and upload it and you will get views guaranteed.
[00:14:25] And if it performs well, you'll get more. And like, we've never had that, right? Like, not, not in the, not in the history of, of any of this stuff. Um, not only have the gates fallen, but, but, uh, there's, there's an algorithm here to boost it and it's exciting.
[00:14:39] Nathan: Well, let's dive in. Take Shortform video. Seriously.
[00:14:43] Uh, we talked about why it's important to do it. We've got three steps listed out here. What's the first step in taking Shortform seriously?
[00:14:50] Colin: The, the very first step is at the most basic level, becoming a creator. Right? Even if it's not part of your big picture vision, even if you have a army of editors ready to take your podcast clips and slice them up and, and upload them for you, it is to make, so at, at the most basic level, it's simple stuff.
[00:15:05] Like a one shot or a 10 shot. And a one shot is something you see in your explore page all the time, right? It's literally a single clip. Text over it. Becoming a
[00:15:14] Nathan: creator is really important. What would you say I should write down here as that first step?
[00:15:17] Colin: I think number one is breaking the seal. It doesn't need to be big, fancy, doesn't need to be a complicated edit.
[00:15:27] You just have to start.
[00:15:30] Nathan: I think that idea of just starting is really important. 'cause the way I would approach it, actually, the more experienced you get as a creator, probably the easier it's to fall into this trap, right? Of like, okay, I already have tens of thousands of views and attention and all of this stuff.
[00:15:46] And so now when I come to a new platform. I need to do it to the same standard that I've been doing before. Yep. Need to have
[00:15:52] Colin: a backlog,
[00:15:53] Nathan: need to have the schedule. What's my strategy?
[00:15:55] Colin: Totally.
[00:15:56] Nathan: Yeah. And so you're saying, saying, no, that's absolutely wrong. Like you need to just start and upload something.
[00:16:02] Colin: I think it's best to start from zero and treat this like a new venture, a new platform, whatever it may be.
[00:16:09] I know for me personally, that kept me from doing this for literally years. Like literally years. And I had, I had this moment of I just need to go sit down and make this video and see what comes out the other side. Um, and the good news with all this stuff is if it sucks, then the algorithm's not gonna show it to anybody.
[00:16:27] Nathan: Right. Um, yeah. Would you start, let's say you have an, an account that you've had for a while that has five or 10,000 followers on it from other things, would you start, like, pick up on that same account or would you start a fresh account?
[00:16:38] Colin: For me, like I had my personal account from when I was, uh, when I was in college and had a bunch of friends.
[00:16:44] And I think, I think personality and being a human is a big, valuable part of this, unless you're doing something where that's where, where that just doesn't make any sense. Um, so I just jumped in with, with my existing account, we always tell people like, unless, unless it, there's a very specific reason why you can't just use your personal account.
[00:17:01] Just do it. Just do it.
[00:17:03] Nathan: Yeah. Yeah. Because then you're getting complicated of all these, all these different things. Okay. Let's talk about that first video that we should make. What do you recommend?
[00:17:10] Colin: So assuming you're starting from absolute scratch, like we call these a one shot. Okay? And this is a single, typically fairly static clip.
[00:17:19] It is six to seven seconds long. And the, the video clip, the visual is kind of a, a context set,
[00:17:27] Nathan: okay?
[00:17:28] Colin: And the text is where the meat is and what the, what the video is actually saying.
[00:17:34] Nathan: That was something that actually surprised me about Instagram is I was used to, you know, to Twitter x where it's all about the text and the hook and, and all this stuff.
[00:17:43] And can you keep and hold attention through written content? Then actually on Instagram it's kind of the same. Yeah, certainly. You just, your hook is different. It's the, it might be the six, seven seconds of B roll or whatever else. Yep, yep. Absolutely. You see that first post,
[00:17:58] Colin: I mean, like, so a one shot and really, uh, I mean really with everything, the copy is everything.
[00:18:03] Uh mm-hmm. Of course, with this especially, it is a text driven format and, uh, a really compelling visual is obviously gonna take it up a notch and make, make for an even better video. But, um, having something interesting to say in the text goes a long way. Relatable stuff, uh, listicles with value or information or stats, so on and so forth.
[00:18:27] Um, something that we always see people get traction with is with that listicle style where it's like, five things I learned as a CEO of yet da. Right. Um, and it's just some of these five things. That's probably a bad example though 'cause it's overly generic and there are, uh, a hundred thousand CEOs that could make that video in the United States.
[00:18:46] Um, right. Uh, everything around short form and, and I guess content in general. I think it's critical to drill down into stuff that only you can make, but, but just raw, clear value in text with a very simple visual and like, boom, we just made our first video. It should take you 15 minutes.
[00:19:03] Nathan: And so I guess coming from another platform, which a lot of our viewers are going to be coming from somewhere else that they've been established, you could just go back to your most popular content.
[00:19:13] And say, oh, how would I remake? Yeah, this written content as a one shot.
[00:19:18] Colin: If we have a, a YouTube video that dives into X, y, z, go pull some key points out of it, pull the punchline out of it. Um, so on and so forth. The meat is really everything there.
[00:19:27] Nathan: And so, you know, you have one shot on here, like the, the shot actually matters.
[00:19:32] That looks like I'm crossing it out. Yeah, we get it. I'm underlining it. There we go. Um, what I've heard someone else describe this as like five seconds of B roll. Yeah. Is that, like, what are examples that you've seen do well of that? Is that you at your computer? Is that like
[00:19:47] Colin: Yeah. I mean, with a simple video like this, the most important thing about that visual is setting the context.
[00:19:52] Right? So if it's like professional advice Yeah. Like I'm sitting at a laptop mm-hmm. That's also like fairly boring. Mm-hmm. Right? So there's an opportunity to spice that up with, I'm sitting on a laptop at a beach in Bali and the sun is setting. Right. Right. Um, same, same basic clip with this kind of video.
[00:20:07] You don't have to have the visual. It's just gonna be a nice to have, um, every single time, like a lot of the homework we give is to use a clip that is sitting in your phone already. Mm-hmm. Um, just like scroll through and find Yeah. Just to remove the barrier of like, oh. Like a lot of people go like, oh, I have to go in.
[00:20:23] Like manifest the perfect, no, right above the brakes. We just need a clip and we need some text. Okay. What's the second one? Second one is to start to get chops around very basic edits. And again, this is like, we'll have people come in that like, you know, they're like, well, IP prefer DaVinci and da da da da, da, right?
[00:20:40] Yeah. Like, um, and I wanna shoot everything on a red camera, and so on and so forth. Right? Doing very basic chops in cap cut, or even natively in edits or in TikTok, um, is going to go a long way again, to just start to get the feel for like how this stuff works and how you put it together. So we, we do a, what we call a yap, which is I think is a fairly universal term.
[00:21:03] Okay. Um, in, in the short form world, which is like. A dude talking about stuff, for lack of a better descriptor. Um, it like, it's raw. It's kind of the, these style videos that look like you might be just like FaceTiming with a friend, except for I'm uploading it to the Facebook is just talking about stuff.
[00:21:18] Right. You take your Yap on a topic and pull that into a cap cut or similar. Mm-hmm. And just in the most basic way, slice and dice it up. Pull out the, like, slice out the pauses. Tighten it up and get a, a concise video outta the other end. And in doing that, all of a sudden we have gone through the whole process.
[00:21:37] We have, we have at least outlined something. We've talked about it. We had e have edited it down into something concise and made a video and, and taking it through these steps. All of a sudden you come outta the other side. Uh, having never made a video, never made a short form video. We've now got the chops.
[00:21:54] It probably took way too long. It was rough, it was a little bit painful. Um, but you learned a truckload and you do that another 5, 10, 30, 200 times. Um, and it's a different animal.
[00:22:05] Nathan: Okay, so here we're really going with a written script in this, this idea of breaking this deal and, you know, delivering our one shot when you're actually like learning to edit and you're, you're diving into a video that you're actually delivering to the camera.
[00:22:19] How much of that is scripted versus it's me just riffing on an idea? I
[00:22:23] Colin: think everyone is different. Mm-hmm. On, on this front. I, what I've found is, for me, time that I save, I'm like, I can talk, I can talk all day, right? Time that I save, not scripting. I typically spend hacking the video into what I need it to be in editing like nine.
[00:22:39] So like, it's so's gonna take the same
[00:22:40] Nathan: amount of time.
[00:22:41] Colin: Yeah.
[00:22:41] Nathan: So
[00:22:42] Colin: do you wanna, and one is much more frustrating than the other and leads to like weird, weird glitches in the footage. Um, but, so for me personally, at the very least, I'm always outlining. Very occasionally I'll just let it rip. Um, and everyone is different on this front, but I never recommend diving right in and just talking.
[00:23:00] Um, the thing that most people don't get is basic stuff. Like turns a phrase. The way that you connect two points. It, it's really easy to get really, really repetitive on these things. And when we shorten that down to like a fairly concise video that's like 20 to 60 seconds long, that kinda stuff jumps off the page.
[00:23:17] And it also wastes a truckload of valuable time. And that's, for me personally, that's the biggest value I get out of scripting is making sure that I'm not, again, connecting phrases with the same thing over and over again. Um, and just wasting my, my words, because you don't have words, you don't have seconds to waste in short form.
[00:23:33] Nathan: What's the target length that we're going for? Or is it not about length? It's just about like density and speed to value.
[00:23:39] Colin: Yeah. I like, the word I use is efficiency. Okay. Right. Um, and that's very important for hooks, we, which we'll get to. Yeah. Um, but word efficiency is the, the basis of short form. Mm-hmm.
[00:23:49] Why it's so good, why people love it, why it, why it's popular. And, and why it's an opportunity is because you, you have an opportunity to pack into a very small package. Mm-hmm. A bunch of value, entertainment, whatever it may be. The an analogy I like to use is you get on YouTube and go search for. Like how to screw in a light bulb, right?
[00:24:08] You, you hit play on that video. It's like, Hey, I'm calling while you're here. Go like and subscribe and da dah, dah, dah, dah. Today we're right. And then all of a sudden, a minute or two minutes into it, well here's the light bulb. I chose this brand right on you. You do that exact same search on TikTok and it's like, it's a 12 second video, right?
[00:24:24] Right. So you do this, you do this, boom, you're done Uhhuh. Right? And, and that like, that's the whole deal, right? That's why, uh, the kids these days are, are searching and using TikTok like a search engine instead of Google is because it's not full of SEO fodder. And then, and, and like long, long drawn out intros,
[00:24:41] Nathan: right?
[00:24:41] There's no longer a benefit. Yeah. One of my favorite ways to get really efficient with content and speaking in this way is called the accordion method. And it's from, uh, the guys over at Ultra Speaking and what they do, I've seen 'em do this Live Bunch, is they say, okay, pick a topic that you could riff on.
[00:24:56] Right? It might be golf, it might be software design, whatever the topic is. And teach me something in two minutes. Start a timer go as they run through it, it's like, great, you did the two minutes. Now do it in one minute and teach me the essence of it. Shorten it down. Okay, now do it in 30 seconds or 15 seconds.
[00:25:13] And you're like, okay, I can't. And you shorten it down and they're like, amazing. Now let's go a little longer again. Now you're allowed to have, I breathe. Breathe,
[00:25:21] Colin: yeah.
[00:25:21] Nathan: 45 seconds or the minute. And you went from, how do I possibly fit this whole thing into this amount of time? Wow, a minute is actually a ton of time
[00:25:29] Colin: to handle this.
[00:25:30] I mean, every time I write a script, it's like, uh, you're always disappointed to find that you could pretty much just delete like 30 or 40% of it and have the same video. But I think it's important because then that gives you room. It doesn't mean it should just be rapid fire always, but then you fill that space with personality and quips and, and things to make that video your own, um, uh, to, to add on to the value or whatever it is there.
[00:25:53] Um, and you've got a great short form video outta the other side.
[00:25:56] Nathan: What else in this edit step really matters?
[00:25:59] Colin: I think, uh, broader than editing, it's like a workflow conversation, right? And it's funny you have people automatically go to teleprompter when we're talking video, right? And the, the cleanest, easiest workflow with Shortform video is to use the built-in camera in Instagram or TikTok, or, or cap cut, uh, cap.
[00:26:18] I, I love cap cuts. The, the built-in camera and cap cut. Then record a line at a time. If you think about scrolling through your for you page or your explore page on Instagram, very rarely do you see a video that's somebody just going off the top of the head for 60 seconds straight, no breaths, no cuts.
[00:26:36] They're just letting it fly, right? We don't actually need a teleprompter. If you write a great script and then start recording and focus on one line at a time, you get to, to, you get to think about nothing but your delivery, your performance, and making that come across with impact and, and spend zero energy on like memorizing the thing and what's the next word, and letting that stumble out.
[00:26:56] And it makes for a much better video, again, unless you're trying to do this like long, drawn out, uh, rant all in one piece. But even then, those are chopped up and you just don't need to nail it all in one take. So I might
[00:27:08] Nathan: have my laptop up with my script and then the video, you know, I'm doing the face to camera and so like, look at it, deliver the line.
[00:27:17] Yep. Is that basically the workflow that,
[00:27:19] Colin: that that's exactly it. And again, in the cap cut camera, like if you need, if you wanna do two takes, you record those in line and using that workflow. When you then go move on, you have your timeline built, you can go back in there, trim, delete the extra one you didn't like, so on and so forth.
[00:27:34] It does, it takes a lot of the like file management, uh, uh, that comes with video editing, just like outta the conversation,
[00:27:41] Nathan: right? 'cause it's all, it's all contained. It capture
[00:27:43] Colin: all in the project and lays it out in the timeline ready for you to chop it up and move forward.
[00:27:47] Nathan: What do you think about people building their transitions into that?
[00:27:49] So like, uh, Jefferson Fisher is this amazing content creator who went from zero to 5 million followers and 24 months, I believe, his videos, it'll be like, here's the three things that you need to know when talking to a narcissist or like how to win an argument or whatever, right? He always does like this wipe transition or something like that in between his takes.
[00:28:08] Does that matter? Or you're like, no, just the, the punch in or something else?
[00:28:12] Colin: I think that like, as you get further down the road, then you start thinking about like, what's my signature format and like how I'm gonna come across and how I'm gonna package this. And I would put that into that bucket, right?
[00:28:23] Mm-hmm. And so how you end up executing that, um, there, there's a lot of ways to do it. Early, early days. Like, uh, finding the f perfect transition probably doesn't matter. I would argue that in a lot of cases, finding the perfect one never matters. Finding one does, right. Oh, okay. Um, and, and having a format, it's the same as like having a brand kit for, uh, a brand kit for kit or for consumer brand, right?
[00:28:47] Is like, how do we present this? What, what type do we use? What kind of transitions do we use? So on and so forth. That's another thing that I, uh, know, I personally was extremely hung up on. Um, uh, we talk to a lot of brands coming through that are like, well, right, everything. Like, we need to figure out how, like our, our brand shows up in short form and how da, da da.
[00:29:07] Right? And all of that can come kind of secondary after you break the seal and get this rolling. Um, and, uh, is less important than we think.
[00:29:17] Nathan: Yeah, I bet there's a lot of things that are in that list of like, oh, this must really matter, and you're like, it doesn't, Nope. Not. So on that note, taking short form video, seriously, what's the third step?
[00:29:26] Colin: The most important thing after the first one is showing up again tomorrow. Doing it again and trying to make it a little bit
[00:29:33] Nathan: better. So, so many people are gonna dive into this and they're gonna do it once or twice. And act like not get results. Turns out this first video might get 20 views. Yeah, 50 views.
[00:29:46] They might start to learn the edit and be like, wow, this is actually wildly frustrating and difficult. But you're saying if you just do it consistently for a long enough period of time, like you're going to unlock this?
[00:29:55] Colin: I think it, it's always people to, it's always tough for people to gr that. Like anything, learning something new, it's typically, it takes a while and it's frustrating at the beginning.
[00:30:04] Right. And then you get rapidly faster. And I think there's all sorts of philosophical conversations around like how often you should be posting and all these things. Like I always preach every day because of the learning curve that it creates. And maybe big picture, you come up for air and, and every day isn't right for you.
[00:30:21] But if you go every day for 90 days or 120 days, all of a sudden you look back and it's like, I just made 100 videos. Right? Like the, the, the speed that you learn at the, the speed that you pick up that skill is, is unprecedented. I've never had anything that I've tackled, um, that I a have like taken that approach that aggressively with like an everyday sort of practice thing.
[00:30:43] Right. And then have the kind of outcome from doing so. It's just like it works every single time.
[00:30:48] Nathan: You know what's funny is there's so many things in life that if you were to do it every day for even 30 to 60 minutes would transform your life. Yeah. Like if you did not have an exercise habit, you're like, okay, so for every day I'm gonna at least exercise for 30 minutes, for 90 days straight.
[00:31:02] Like, you will fundamentally change your life. Yeah. Yeah. You'll literally
[00:31:05] Colin: change your life. I've been thinking about this with golf a lot lately. Like what if I actually,
[00:31:09] Nathan: yeah, I think you're just looking for an excuse to play more golf, but we know it would work. And in this case you have ton like example after example.
[00:31:18] People living it out, having some level of instruction and habit around it, and actually creating this transformative outcome in that period of time. But I think it's also really important that you're not evaluating it of like, is this a good idea? On day five or day 10 because like you haven't really learned anything then, right?
[00:31:38] You haven't made
[00:31:39] Colin: any progress. Exactly. And I, I think it's easy to get wrapped up in, like looking in the analytics and da da da try to make decisions, especially early on. I think any, like any creator that's been at it for a while appreciates that. Like, you need to associate like the, the dopamine of creating stuff with like hitting share or hitting publish, not with like watching the algo rip and, and a bunch of likes coming through.
[00:31:59] And I think it's the same thing there. And something I've noticed for me as someone who's like made 500, 600 videos and then also fallen off and stopped is like the, the most important part of getting started again is like taking it from here and doing it, doing it all again. Um, because it's very easy to get wrapped up and like, okay, I finally.
[00:32:18] I've gone cold. I finally did it again. Ah, but it didn't, you know, it didn't change my life. It didn't get a million views. Um, and it always comes back to like, like, I dunno, there's so many metaphors here. Maybe it's bigger than short form, but like, you go to the gym, you don't expect to look amazing on the, the first or the fifth day.
[00:32:36] It's, it's more about the, the long term.
[00:32:38] Nathan: Right. I mean, running with that analogy, what I wrote down is track inputs not outputs. Yeah. Because you have to get your dopamine hit from I did the thing. Yeah. And I published it. And I'm paying attention to the outputs only because they might help me learn what to do differently in the future.
[00:32:56] Yeah. Not because I'm judging was this worth doing based on
[00:32:59] Colin: it. Yeah. And that like Instagram, especially recently and TikTok, I feel like in the old days of creating content, so many things were like hidden by the platforms. It's like you'd have to kind of like try and back into like the stats that were actually useful to you in this day and age in 2025.
[00:33:13] Like I can go into an Instagram video and look at a skip rate. I can see how many people immediately skipped it. Right. And didn't even, didn't even stay for the first three seconds. And so like beyond like glancing at that to see what, see how how my last, um, my last swing looked like carry on and make it better the next time.
[00:33:30] You always get people that are like hung up and like trying to analyze every little piece of it. Mm-hmm. And uh, meanwhile it's like you've made seven.
[00:33:38] Nathan: Yep. Okay. Um, two other quick things on this. First, how much time do you recommend that someone allocates on a daily basis?
[00:33:45] Colin: It's vastly different. We tell people that like, even if you're coming in cold, uh, so hopefully if you're making YouTube or doing a newsletter, even if the idea seems a little bit cold, you're not a total noob.
[00:33:56] Mm-hmm. Like an hour a day is a super reasonable starting point. Okay. To get the ball rolling. That's obviously not the case if you decide to, to sit down and make much more complex videos, uh, more complex edits, but to get the ball rolling and start to figure out the lay of the land, an hour a day is, is super reasonable.
[00:34:13] Yep.
[00:34:13] Nathan: I like that. And the second one is, where would you go, or what types of content ideas would you brainstorm to make sure that you have enough? To pull from for, you know, the 34 to go through cut, cut 30 or 90 plus, right? To be able to stay consistent,
[00:34:29] Colin: first and foremost, content begets content. Like, if I make a video, I will inherently have more video ideas, right?
[00:34:34] And this comes in the form of, of comments or just like, like ideas that that kick starts, so on and so forth. So again, this comes down to like, we don't need the perfect idea list. We need to make the video, um, and, and let those ideas come. But there's all kinds of places to find this stuff. It's in the comments, it's in the FAQ of your website.
[00:34:53] A favorite for me is like when you get on a client call or a customer call, if you're talking to a customer from kit. Like every single time the things that you were telling them that they should do, the approach that you gave them, the idea you gave them, like each of those is a video idea. So for me, when you, you start to feel stuck, you step back.
[00:35:11] Mm-hmm. Um, and then just kind of get back to the work, whether the work is creating content or the niche that you're in, so on and so forth. And that itself will create the ideas.
[00:35:21] Nathan: Yeah. So what I would write down here, right, if we're looking for ideas that's gonna equal, uh, really going from the call with a customer into, uh, a transcript,
[00:35:38] and then from that we're gonna get our ideas.
[00:35:41] Colin: Yep.
[00:35:43] Nathan: And if I mine through that on a consistent basis and I meet with customers regularly, then I'm gonna be like, oh, what things do I explain over and over again? I can even make my little custom AI to keep going through the Yeah, right. The transcript and like highlight things that make sense.
[00:35:58] Colin: I know for me personally, it's like if you think about a call in that context, like you don't even have to review it, right? It's like you're talking through this and you, you find those moments where you're fired up and it's like, okay, there's, right. Like it turns out I have opinions on that. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:36:11] Exactly. And maybe
[00:36:12] Nathan: I should share those opinion. If you have an opinion that's a video. Exactly. Right. Exactly. It's a hell of a starting point. All right. So the three steps to take short form video seriously are first break the seal, second learn the edit, and then third, do it again tomorrow. I love that we have this whole other thing that we wanna get into, which is the hook and hooks are everywhere in content, but they really, really matter in short form.
[00:36:31] I think about in long form, it's like your blog post, your title, like the hook matters, but it's only like 5% of the total content. In this case, it's like 25% of the content. And would you say like 50% or more of the success rate?
[00:36:44] Colin: Yeah, I mean more absolutely. The hook is all that matters no matter how good the video is.
[00:36:48] Mm-hmm. And I think there's countless examples. The first chunk. Is the the verbal, the verbal hook. Okay. So what you actually say to open up the video.
[00:37:00] Nathan: Okay. What you say to open up the, the video that's clear. Gimme an example.
[00:37:05] Colin: Do you mind if we just establish an example video as we talk through this? I want use this video.
[00:37:10] I recently did. Um, so I got a putting green, uh, put into my backyard. Nice. Um, congrats to me. Yes, exactly. It's been a long time coming. Um, that's how we know, like how do you know when I made it? There will be signs. There will be signs. Um, so on, on that video I open up with, everyone's been asking me, right?
[00:37:29] And so this isn't the snappiest, uh, verbal, but it's very relatable. And for my audience, which is really who I'm targeting, targeting with this, they've literally been asking me. Everybody's been asking me how much it costs to put a, putting green into my house, how much it costs is exactly what everyone who's ever wanted a putting green is thinking about.
[00:37:49] Mm-hmm. Right. Uh, so if I get you with, with putting green, that's your next question.
[00:37:55] Nathan: So I love, everyone's been asking me because exactly what you said, it's instantly relatable and I'm going, well, hold on. What have they all been asking you Exactly? Apparently, if they've all been asking, it's worth knowing.
[00:38:05] And so like you've, you haven't said anything useful, but you've still gotten my attention. With that hook. And it's, it's a content idea as well of like, well, what does everyone ask you? Right? And it's like, great, well let me just answer those right. With my content.
[00:38:18] Colin: Exactly. And then the next place this goes, which gets a little bit beyond hook, there are different ways to talk about that, is the first question that comes to mind.
[00:38:26] Uh, which is how much this thing costs. Right. Um, and so by doing that, we've established the a that I'm talking about something interesting 'cause people have been asking me about it. And then getting to money is always a good hook.
[00:38:36] Nathan: Mm-hmm. I love, everyone's been asking me, tying it into money. Totally makes sense.
[00:38:41] It makes me think. Is there like a list or a library of these that you would pull through or like how do you know if you have a good verbal hook?
[00:38:47] Colin: My litmus test, in every video I make, I will write down at least a couple hooks and then I will just go and record them and watch them back to myself. And just at the most basic level, like would I stop scrolling if I saw this?
[00:38:59] Is this compelling? Um, that's the easiest way to really tell because there are some people that can make this video, this. There are some people that can make this hook turn into a million view video and some for whom it's a dud. And it all comes back to how I can perform that or deliver that and whether or not, um, that's a useful piece of this equation.
[00:39:16] Nathan: And that might be going back to the one line at a time. Exactly. You might deliver this line a few different times and get to really work on exactly that delivery. Exactly. I like that. So three keys to good hooks. Number one is verbal. What's number two?
[00:39:27] Colin: Next is visual. Is there something on screen that is compelling that caught my attention, um, that interrupted my scroll and kept
[00:39:35] Nathan: me around for longer?
[00:39:36] Mm-hmm. Okay. So what's happening? There's definitely videos that I've watched. Where I realize that the visual doesn't even have that much to do with the video, but like I'm intrigued by what they're saying or what the caption is or something else, and the thing actually happening is so compelling that I just have to keep watching.
[00:39:53] Is that what you mean there?
[00:39:54] Colin: I think most of the, like traditionally viral videos, including like before the days of Instagram and TikTok, um, are basically an amazing visual hook, right? This is like the guy who as soon as the video starts is flying off his motorcycle in a crazy accident that makes me wonder what's gonna happen.
[00:40:10] Yeah. Or, or something of that nature. The visual is the highest impact piece of hook and ultimately, um, probably plays the biggest role in like whether or not the user is going to stop their scroll.
[00:40:21] Nathan: Okay. So in this, you could test both these hooks with the skip rate. Now that Instagram tells you what that is, but.
[00:40:28] What are some examples that you've seen of a really good visual impact that's not a motorcycle crash, right? Like if I'm teaching you content creation or how to build an online business, I'm probably not crashing motorcycles in my My Clips.
[00:40:42] Colin: So I want to come back to this example video that we were talking about with the putting green in my backyard for this.
[00:40:47] The visual hook I used was a starting point of I've got this terrible side yard that grass won't grow 'cause it's too shaded. So I've got this image of just a dead crappy side yard that everybody's got over on the other side of the thing. Yep. That they never wanna look at. Right. And in the hook, it starts with that and then it flips this beautiful, pristine, putting green.
[00:41:08] Nathan: Oh, and it all ties together because everyone's been asking what does it cost? And I see the before, and so every bit of that converges on the idea, like, you're about to show me. Right, right. Exactly what the real thing looks like. Exactly.
[00:41:20] Colin: And then fairly quickly, I think in, in the case of this video I'm describing, it's like within two or three seconds, like we're not, we're not pushing that off to the end to, to reveal it.
[00:41:28] We're immediately showing that to, to kind of drive home the relatability. And like, you've got that crappy space in your yard, what if it was not this? Um, so on and so forth.
[00:41:37] Nathan: Well, and the other thing is from a retention perspective, you know, if you're giving them the, the visual payoff within a couple seconds of here's what it looks like, you still have the.
[00:41:47] Psychological hook, retaining them of money. But you still haven't told me how much it costs.
[00:41:52] Colin: Yeah.
[00:41:52] Nathan: So now I'm invested in, it's, it's relatable. I wanna see what's coming. Uh, and I, I wanna know, okay, great. How much did it cost? Because I got that side yard. Are we three grand in or are we 50 grand in? Exactly.
[00:42:03] And
[00:42:03] Colin: I think in, in the case of this video, it, it really, it really drives home the relatability, like you're saying, because it's not a, it shows them right outta the gate that we're not talking about a grandiose thing. We didn't spend 50 grand. Right. Yeah. It's something more attainable that, that I could relate to.
[00:42:18] Nathan: I like that a lot. So what else matters in the visual hook?
[00:42:20] Colin: I think at the end of the day, if it can't be something incredibly compelling that stops the scroll, it needs to set the context for the video that we're watching, right? If, if it is guy in a room, that is part of the visual hook, that is part of the context of the video, whether or not it's, it's compelling is a different conversation.
[00:42:37] Something we're seeing these days on TikTok, especially. Is these traditional yapper videos like I've been talking about, that are fairly raw. People are adding a notebook and a pin to these videos, and this is, there's a bunch of accounts that are blowing up doing this. They're doing the exact same thing, but they've now got a notebook out and a pin in their hand referencing their notes, which adds this huge implication that they've got a bunch of value here in front of them and that they're about to share it for you.
[00:43:01] And those videos are hooking tenfold better than the same person at the same table saying the same stuff. But without that adding on and kind of creating some, some mystery
[00:43:12] Nathan: now is that notes pre-written and that they're cutting to for a second and then back. They don't
[00:43:17] Colin: cut to 'em. It's literally just this, it's similar to having like a laptop out, right?
[00:43:21] Uhhuh, but there's something much more tactile and real and concrete about the notebook. It's literally just. I have these notes and I'm sharing them with you. So if the
[00:43:28] Nathan: camera is coming from your, if the shot is coming that way Right. And I have it, like I just have the notebook and the pen in my hand, you can't see what's in it.
[00:43:35] You can just see that I,
[00:43:36] Colin: yeah. And maybe I look down at it to reference it, whether or not there's actually something there, or whether it's chicken scratch, who knows. Right. But that, like, that takes the same video that's like guy in a room talking about stuff and, and significantly amps up the hook and, and stops the scroll.
[00:43:50] Nathan: Oh, that's fascinating. Yeah. Whereas that would be a tiny test. And I guess that's the advantage of being part of a community working on all this. That's probably what you got from your original group chat as well, where someone's like, Hey, I saw this thing and now I'm gonna try it. Oh, it worked. And then you
[00:44:05] Colin: Absolutely.
[00:44:05] It's kind of like a, a modern version of like early on in short form, people started using, using wacky microphones. Right. So like, like it went from no mic to like, okay, I'm holding a little lapel to maybe it's my AirPods and all these things kind of like had had their moment to like, and they see people with like an SM seven V Yeah.
[00:44:23] With this, or it's like you'll see somebody attach it to like, we have a a, a baker in cut 30 and she attaches her little dj I MIC to a spatula. Right? Right. Um, right. And so I think the, the notebook and pen is kind of like an extension of that where it's just like adding this layer of, uh, of visual something visually interesting, um, as well as context.
[00:44:43] Right. When, when, when I see that it's like, oh, this guy's has studied this stuff, right. So much he has notes, right. This,
[00:44:50] Nathan: this must be good. I like that. I just wrote down props because the notebook is a prop and it takes what otherwise would be a very boring, uh, visual hook and makes it quite interesting.
[00:45:01] Yep. I like it. Okay, so what is number three?
[00:45:03] Colin: Three is the title. Okay. And this is exactly what it sounds like. This is the text that is on the screen during those first couple seconds. All of these things play together. They all can compliment each other or, or in some cases be redundant. The title's biggest job is to like clearly and concisely, uh, lay out the promise and the topic.
[00:45:24] Nathan: All right, so the title is what's on screen in those first three seconds. Going back to your putting green example, like what do you have on
[00:45:30] Colin: there? This is clear cut as it comes. Backyard putting green install. We're not gonna win any awards, but it very clearly sets out what is gonna happen in this video.
[00:45:41] And then I think critically, if you think about how you interact with a video, like in the explore page where you're scrolling and you have this grid of all these small videos. Mm-hmm. This is a very, very clearly laid out. There's a video here about a backyard putting green install right. Without a title hook.
[00:45:55] It's just a guy on camera, maybe with some grass behind me, right? Um, but, but that's a big piece of getting that click through from explore page. Mm-hmm. Um, other versions of this are also comments, right? If, if somebody leaves a comment on a video and you reply to it, that comment sticker can serve as a title hook as being text that sets the tone for what your video is about and explains the video.
[00:46:18] And at the end of the day, it, it, it's something that the viewer can immediately look at and absorb to understand what they're getting their themselves into as they keep watching. So if I see the
[00:46:26] Nathan: comment. So it might be the, the shot of you, this is kind of our thumbnail or that initial thing. And then I see the comment up above your head.
[00:46:34] I immediately know, oh, you're responding to a reader question. Yes. And then if you're saying, everyone's been asking me. Yeah. Well, yes. Here's yeah. Photographic proof
[00:46:43] Colin: in of someone asking, in retrospect, for this video, I should have taken one of the comments from my previous content about this and use somebody asking that question.
[00:46:52] What's your putting green cost as a comment, as a, as that title hook. Um, using like native pieces of the UI always obviously will perform better than like edited text. Better look next time,
[00:47:05] Nathan: I guess. So really what we're seeing here is all three parts of this. Sitting together and, and playing off of each other.
[00:47:11] Right. In that video, what you're saying matches the visuals, matches the title. They all reinforce it. If I don't have what you're saying, because I'm, you know, audio is off or whatever else, the title and the visuals both matches. Is that right? That you're, you have all three play off each other?
[00:47:28] Colin: Yeah, I think there's, there's no right or wrong with all this stuff.
[00:47:32] You have to have one of these be good to, to, to get a video go. And then the more the merrier. Obviously that classic viral video example is nothing but a visual. Um, one of these has to be excellent to get some traction and get a video to move. One of those must be great. Yeah, I like it. So one of these must be great in order to get a video to go.
[00:47:54] It doesn't matter how good the video is, it doesn't matter the topic, it doesn't matter if you're gonna tell somebody how to make a million dollars tomorrow, it like genuinely in that video, if we don't have one of these to stop that scroll and keep people around. Mm-hmm. Obviously nobody's gonna watch it.
[00:48:07] But more importantly, uh, the algo isn't gonna have a signal that this is good content that I should then serve to more people. That's really helpful. On hooks,
[00:48:16] Nathan: I wanna zoom out and kind of go to a meta level. If we were to make short form video from this long form podcast, what's an example of something that we would create a
[00:48:25] Colin: video about?
[00:48:26] The video of the video. Okay. Um, I got a bunch of places we can take this. The first one is, let's start with a one shot and I got a couple places we take this. So first I need you to grab like a static shot, pulling in, come past the camera, make sure that there's white space and open space for text in the middle.
[00:48:44] And you don't need us saying anything particular. Just the hand gestures. Yeah. As long as I'm not looking at you right. It's this. Right. And, and then on that, there's a couple different directions that we could go. Um, self-deprecation and humor always plays well here. And I think in your case as, as, uh, the CEO and, and the owner of this business, you can do kind of a humble brag that pokes fun at yourself and do something like, POVI spent blah, blah, blah.
[00:49:06] It just in order to get my friends here to talk about yada yada. Right. And do some copy around that. I spent a million, I didn't spend a million dollars,
[00:49:12] Nathan: but it'd be like I spent with POVI spent a million dollars to just try to, let's see.
[00:49:17] Colin: Just to pick the brains of people I met on the internet
[00:49:19] Nathan: Yeah. Or right.
[00:49:20] Or something to see them, to teach me how to become internet famous. Yeah. Or exactly. Whatever.
[00:49:23] Colin: We could do that. Uh, another angle if we were really wanting to harp on the gear, same exact shot. Um, maybe it stays with the, the Sony in, in the frame a little bit longer, and it rattles off the gear stack that you picked for your podcast studio.
[00:49:38] And it, and it hooks with money again. I spent X amount building out podcast studios. This is the gear stack, and it's like da da duh and this board. And we switched to this board after that. 'cause
[00:49:47] Nathan: another one that I would do, everyone's been asking me how much it costs to build out this podcast studio.
[00:49:52] Yeah. Yeah. It's just about $26,000 in case everyone's wondering, yeah, I shouldn't deliver that because I need to, I need to hook them with the out a little bit. Yeah. Yeah. No, but that, that's, that's a good example. One thing that I like in the one shot that you were describing. Is, it's not a clip from one of our fancy cameras, because that doesn't set the whole stage of the studio.
[00:50:12] What you had was Kara, our producer, pull in from behind the camera, the iPhone, so that we can see, we get the visual of like, Ooh, here's these guys in a fancy studio with all the lighting, with the fancy cameras. What are they talking about? Yeah, absolutely. And so it's a little bit more of a hook
[00:50:27] Colin: Yeah.
[00:50:27] Versus just a, a frame of guys talking, which is what any of these cameras is gonna give us. Right? Yeah. Um, not to mention with all these cameras, there's so many layers to it. You're gonna get the mic, the lights are kind of visually interesting.
[00:50:39] Nathan: Yeah. Yeah. Oh, there's so many things. Okay. I love that. All right, so that's the one shot.
[00:50:43] Uh, what would be another example of a reel that we create from this?
[00:50:45] Colin: I think that each of these boards is a reel. Okay.
[00:50:51] Nathan: Um, right. Do you wanna try that right now? Yeah. Like what's the reel that you would make if you were to say, I. Uh, and then we're just doing the topic pick up. But if I were to take, you know, taking Shortform video seriously means, or, and you through
[00:51:04] Colin: it.
[00:51:04] Yeah. It could be something like, uh, I posted 93 Instagram videos. I haven't actually made one yet. Or something like that.
[00:51:13] Nathan: Kind of. Lemme try it. All right. No, yeah. Step out of this. You were good. I just, I posted 93 Instagram videos and none of them have really taken off, so that's why I have my guest today.
[00:51:23] Colin, come in and show me how to take short form video. Seriously, the three things that he's taught me. One, break the seal, just dive in and start creating content and learn from what you do consistently. Second is learn the edit. You can dive in, just use the tools, use cap cut, get in there, start editing.
[00:51:39] The goal here is to be as efficient as possible. If you've come from long form, you need to get short and tight. And third is just do it again tomorrow. By staying consistent over a long period of time, we're gonna learn with every rep and eventually get to something great. So on, on
[00:51:54] Colin: that,
[00:51:54] Nathan: something,
[00:51:55] Colin: how would you workshop?
[00:51:56] Well, I was saying about your hook. You, you said I posted, what did you say? I, I, I posted 93 videos just so, just like, like saying the same thing more efficiently and with less words. It might be like, I'm 93 videos in. Mm-hmm. Just like, just like we're, we're into it way quicker. It rolls off the tongue smoother.
[00:52:12] And again, it says the same thing. Um, we don't need to say. Posted, like right, it's all implied.
[00:52:18] Nathan: That was really helpful for ways to improve it. Uh, what else did you notice, or what would you do differently?
[00:52:23] Colin: I think we just need to go beyond bullet points for this. You're obviously good at speaking publicly and can rattle this stuff off.
[00:52:30] If we drill down exactly what you're gonna say, you're gonna have much better delivery. And then when we go to tighten it up in edit, it's just gonna be that much tighter, punchier, and more concise.
[00:52:37] Nathan: So if we were actually making this. We would go ahead and make the outline or the script and then deliver it one line at a time instead of me trying to riff it off of, off of this,
[00:52:47] Colin: that, and then get a, a little personality moment, a quip, something like that in there.
[00:52:52] My typical format is hook joke or, or something I of that nature. And then the bullet points.
[00:52:58] Nathan: Okay. Maybe it's just because I'm not naturally a funny person. Like what, what types of jokes are you working in or what's joke?
[00:53:03] Colin: Probably overstating it, like a quip, a nod that people in my audience might get that isn't necessarily gonna distract new people.
[00:53:10] Like your little
[00:53:11] Nathan: like nod or wink to the camera. Yeah. Not literally, but yeah,
[00:53:14] Colin: exactly. Exactly. I think the goal of all this should be to make a video that only you can make. Mm-hmm. And like just having, injecting a little personality is the easiest way to do that. Say
[00:53:23] Nathan: more about the video that only you can make.
[00:53:25] Because I see a lot of things happening where people go through and be like. I don't know, this ripped on Collins channel, so lemme just make the exact same video.
[00:53:31] Colin: Yeah. That, that does happen from time to time. I guess that's the nature of the beast. But, um, I think every, like we were talking about saturation earlier.
[00:53:40] Mm-hmm. And if you're showing up and making content that anybody can make, then you should absolutely be worried about that. But it really comes down to like adding qualifiers to the hook in the video itself that make the value that you're delivering relevant to a specific person who's suffering from that or needs the solution that you have or, or something similar.
[00:54:01] So for you, instead of talking about like how to make a re maybe it's how to make a re as a CEO of an x, y, z Co, uh, of an x, y, Z software company who doesn't have time, da, da, da. Right? All, all these modifiers that make it so that instead of speaking to a hundred million people. And then instead of drilling down to like an entrepreneur, drill down to like executives in software, right, who also relate to that problem, so on and so forth.
[00:54:27] That video probably has less upside from a viewership standpoint, but like we were talking about earlier, um, they, they're gonna be much more
[00:54:35] Nathan: impactful viewers. Colin, this has been amazing. I feel like you've broken down so many aspects of what it means to take short form seriously. If we zoom out, right, if we win on Instagram and TikTok, it has a broader purpose, right?
[00:54:47] We're trying to build a business and drive revenue. How do you think about that?
[00:54:51] Colin: I think that, so for me personally, I've done a lot of businesses in my career and as a, as a starting point, I will never again do a business where I don't have short form as like the primary driver of getting attention leads in the overall marketing strategy.
[00:55:05] Um, it's,
[00:55:06] Nathan: it's that big of a deal that's huge to apply it in all these different areas. What that tells me is if you already have a, a business that's successful, you can layer short form on top of that and get some huge returns. What I'm curious about is we've covered a bunch of examples. I think people understand how if they were a traditional creator coming into short form or they're just getting started, like why it would matter.
[00:55:26] What about in the business space? Are there any examples of someone going through cut 30 who's like, I don't know, applied it in an area that you totally wouldn't expect, or like it actually worked in their industry where you're like, short form would never make sense.
[00:55:37] Colin: Often we get the question of like, will will this work for X?
[00:55:41] And my answer is always like, if, if humans are your buyers, then uh, you're in good shape, right? With this, a recent example, um, of this guy that's crushing is, is a dentist. Okay? Not a dentist. Not the, not the most exciting thing in the world. Extremely relatable though, because everybody uses a dentist, right?
[00:55:59] Humans mm-hmm. Uses dentist and he's blown up his practice and his TikTok, um, with these very, very call, very, very simple call and response videos where he has someone off, off camera ask him like, name a product or a trend or a service. We call 'em expert rating videos. And then he. Gives it a very quick response, his opinion on it rates it one to 10 and then the next one.
[00:56:22] And these videos are, are absolutely ripping for him. We also have a, a contractor, they specialize in siding, I believe. Okay. Who, who's used this, this exact same format to get, uh, uh, I think 50, a hundred thousand views on a video. It's not a, a tremendous amount of views, but with the, the localized nature of these algorithms, if you're a siding contractor in Salem, Oregon in that case, and you get 75,000 views on your video about what siding is best, and they're like concentrated, half of them are like within a hundred miles.
[00:56:54] Like, do you think that's valuable for your business? Like, the answer is, it's totally ridiculous. Right. Um, it's, it's incredibly valuable. Mm-hmm. Whether you're like selling e-comm and, and running TikTok shop, like, like a lot of e-comm brands are these days. Or if you're just in a standard, uh, service business and driving leads or running a dental practice.
[00:57:14] Nathan: So the colon response videos are interesting because. I've seen the one, probably the first one I saw go really viral I think was the plastic surgeon. Yeah. Talking and just like rate this. He is like seven, whatever. That's the model. That's it. I don't know if he's the innovator, but like that That's the one.
[00:57:28] Yeah. And it was like rate these, a plastic surgeon rates these beauty tracks. Exactly. Right. And people do it with books, they do it with all kinds of things. How important is it to find a format that's super consistent, like Jefferson Fisher in his car, every single video. Versus like trying a bunch of things and, and branching out.
[00:57:46] Colin: So we think about this, uh, we call them pillars, right? And at any given moment, you should be having three or four different pillars that are kind of like what you're running with right now. And then at some sort of regular interval, whether it's every month or or every 60 days, you should be looking at your content, what's working, which of those pillars is performing well for you, versus, which is like maybe a little bit stale and swapping in and out.
[00:58:08] So something like this call and response video that a dentist or a plastic surgeon, et cetera is doing, um, that thing, ride that thing, ride it till the wheels fall off. And then once it's a dud, maybe you end up retiring it and swapping something else in. Then, uh, with the, you know, yapping in the car talking about X, Y, Z again, this is like a, a pillar.
[00:58:27] It never is a matter of like, which one should I do? It's a matter of, of how they fit into your mix. And then continually refreshing that and taking a fresh approach, looking at the numbers, pulling the stats into a spreadsheet, and making decisions about how to adjust and go forward from there. I like
[00:58:42] Nathan: that.
[00:58:43] And then would you continue with daily, for like all year long as this is working and all that, you know, once we've gone from a hey, just stay consistent perspective into a what actually works for the algorithm in your business? How do you think about timing?
[00:58:56] Colin: I think the daily is extremely productive for learning and then in most cases it's also a great approach to the algorithm and just getting volume out of the world as well.
[00:59:05] Mm-hmm. A lot of serious creators end up getting to two or three times a day across mediums, right? When you look at like, look, we've got a very simple one-shot video. It's very low lift. It doesn't take me or, or my editing team any energy to actually execute that versus a more nuanced, uh, talking head video versus a carousel, right.
[00:59:24] Which is like, uh, just another format both on TikTok and Instagram, all of these different things. I think one a day is a starting point for taking it seriously. There are use cases for getting into like four or five a week or something like that, or, or for taking it. Up. You cannot lose. If you're sitting down and shipping a video a day and then trying to get better as you do it, it will work.
[00:59:45] It's not a matter of if, it's a matter of when.
[00:59:47] Nathan: I love that, that idea of consistent execution and then to quote our buddy James, clear, like 1% better every day. Yeah. Just keep learning. This has been amazing. We could riff on this for so much more, but you've taught a ton of stuff for free. You also have cut 30, which is a program.
[01:00:02] Where if someone wants to dive in and say, Hey, I want accountability and I want structure and all of this, they can actually go through it. How often do you run new cohorts of cut? 30?
[01:00:10] Colin: Yeah, so every six weeks we do another cohort. It is cohort based, which is a lot of fun. I love it. My favorite thing about those is the office hours we do, which are less formal than the Zooms where we just get on and talk shop and basically do this about 20 different people's content or however many join that day.
[01:00:26] We do those every six weeks. We've run, I think coming up on 2000 people through them. Everything from founders to creators, wannabe creators, or sorry, aspiring creators. Yep. Um, uh, as well as e-commerce brands, local businesses. Uh, I think the weak point of cut 30 is we've kind of got something for everybody.
[01:00:44] Um, but that makes a lot of fun and eclectic and at the end of the day, this is a big experiment, I think. And so all of these different content types actually end up playing really well together. And a lot of the time we'll have people find success with something they never would've, um, never would've seen themselves doing.
[01:01:00] So. Cut 30 every six weeks. I love that. Uh, what's
[01:01:04] Nathan: u RL for? Cut 30. Cut thirty.co. Perfect. And what is your Instagram? If someone wants to, uh, you know, find out what everyone's been asking you about the, the golf cutting green. It was 8,500 bucks.
[01:01:15] Colin: Uh, ooh. The payoff finally comes super reasonable for the, for the record.
[01:01:18] Um, and my Instagram and everywhere is just land force. My last name Land Force, like, like Air Force, but land. I like it.
[01:01:24] Nathan: Thanks so much for coming on.
[01:01:25] Colin: Thank you for having me.