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Honest conversations with working mothers about how they really "do it all"
Join us on Substack - https://substack.com/@leaningmyway
Hello everyone, and welcome to Leaning My Way, a show where I have honest conversations with working mothers about how they really do it all. Today's conversation focuses on a topic that I think many of us are asking ourselves. How can having kids possibly fit into having a big career? For my guest, Corina Valencia, this wasn't a straightforward answer.
Corina grew up in a traditional Mexican home where being a mother meant stepping back from your career. And in rebellion to that, Corina decided kids were not on the table for her. Instead, she spent her twenties and most of her thirties focused on becoming a global business leader, which she quickly achieved working her way up to senior positions at both City and Palantir, and becoming a COO of an international tech startup.
But in her late thirties, she met her now husband, and after years of swearing off motherhood, she started to open her mind to it. From there, Carina went on a winding journey to becoming a mom. Carina shares openly about the reckoning she ultimately had to go through when her body could not handle the stress of working around the clock and creating life.
Something that became undeniable when she got pregnant with her future son, just one week after resigning. We talked a lot about Corina's transition into motherhood and the shocking discrimination she faced trying to reenter the workforce as a mother. But what I love about Corina is that she never let herself be the victim, and instead decided to build the change she wanted to see in the world.
She is now the founder of a longevity consultancy business Long Via, which aims to make longevity treatment more accessible, and her team is almost exclusively mothers. like all of us Corina's path is still unfolding.
And while her story reveals some challenging realities of being a working mother, she also shows us that the challenges do not have to define us. I cannot wait for you all to hear Corina's story, so let's get into it. Here's my conversation with Corina Valencia.
[00:01:58] Mikenzie: Hello, Karina welcome.
[00:02:01] karina: Thank you so much for having me.
[00:02:03] Mikenzie: How's your day been so far?
[00:02:05] karina: It's actually really nice. I was having breakfast this morning with a very close friend who also happens to be a managing
[00:02:11] karina: director of her big vis firm. And I was telling you about your podcast and she was so excited about it because she's also female founder.
[00:02:17] karina: she's also a woman in vc, which is rare. And she's also a mom.
[00:02:21] karina: So she was hoping that you would have existed two years ago when she was thinking about having children, but didn't know how to think about it.
[00:02:29] Mikenzie: Oh, I love that. Well, we'll definitely send her your episode and maybe she could be a future guest. It sounds
[00:02:35] karina: Ooh,
[00:02:35] Mikenzie: have some interesting insights. great, well, super excited to have you on. And actually I wanted to dive in deep right awaywhen we were speaking earlier, you told me you didn't want kids.
[00:02:48] Mikenzie: Up until your mid to late thirties, and I was hoping you could share a little bit more about that. What was your vision of your life at that time
[00:02:58] Mikenzie: and why wasn't kids compatible with that?
[00:03:03] karina: it's a long story, but I think I grew up in a very traditional family where, you know, your
[00:03:10] karina: career is
[00:03:11] karina: set, your life is set. You're
[00:03:13] karina: expect to have a successful mid-career, then get married to
[00:03:20] karina: someone that will take care of you. Then have your first kid, have your
[00:03:24] karina: second kid, third kit, maybe, maybe not, but then become that.
[00:03:30] karina: Full-time or almost
[00:03:32] karina: full-time mom, which stays at home and takes the role whilst your
[00:03:35] karina: partner takes care of the family from an economical
[00:03:38] karina: standpoint. And that became a revel in
[00:03:43] karina: me of thinking, well, I don't want kids because that way allows me to
[00:03:49] karina: take the role of the other person and be financially independent and therefore I don't need to be at home
[00:03:55] karina: taking care of the kids because I have this freedom.
[00:03:59] karina: And it was very late in life, almost in my forties when I met my second partner. And I just
[00:04:09] karina: start thinking about the idea of having a mini piece of him. Like what would it be like if we have this tiny human, which resembles the person that I love the most in
[00:04:19] karina: this world? And it was not until then that.
[00:04:23] karina: Many conversations pass
[00:04:25] karina: with him that it make me prompt the idea of wanting to have
[00:04:28] karina: kids
[00:04:29] Mikenzie: Hmm.
[00:04:31] karina: definitely came late.
[00:04:32] Mikenzie: I find that really
[00:04:34] Mikenzie: interesting because I think there's a lot of people who
[00:04:38] Mikenzie: question whether they want to have kids, especially when
[00:04:41] Mikenzie: they hit their thirties.
[00:04:44] Mikenzie: and for you it felt like very specifically, like I did not want to have kids. I'm curious, what it was like when you told your friends and family
[00:04:54] Mikenzie: that you didn't want to have kids.
[00:04:56] Mikenzie: How did they
[00:04:57] Mikenzie: react? And, especially maybe your family coming from Mexico,
[00:05:01] Mikenzie: that sounds like maybe a bit more traditional was that a difficult conversation or were they pretty understanding around it?
[00:05:08] karina: Oh, no. I think they were in shock.
[00:05:12] karina: I mean, I think they were in shock because they didn't understand why.
[00:05:18] karina: I wouldn't wanna have kids because for them It's
[00:05:20] karina: part of life. It's part of the reason why you get married. The reason
[00:05:26] karina: why you grow up and establish yourself is to be able to have
[00:05:31] karina: a family. Whether in my perception it is part of who you are, but you're also many other things apart from being a mom or a parent.
[00:05:42] karina: That's not the case for my parents. The ca for my parents are dedicated to us.
[00:05:47] karina: They live or they live many years of their
[00:05:50] karina: lives,
[00:05:51] karina: for my sister and me. And they had a hard time understanding why I wouldn't like to do the next generation of the same.
[00:06:03] Mikenzie: Hmm.
[00:06:04] karina: so it wasn't easy, but I think they were more in the camp of.
[00:06:10] karina: Hopefully she will change her mind. And I did.
[00:06:13] Mikenzie: Was this in your teens or twenties, thirties.
[00:06:17] karina: it was just a conversationevery time I will call them on the phone, they will be like, so are you pregnant? And at some point I just said, no, I'm not. And I'm not planning to actually, I might never be.
[00:06:31] Mikenzie: Hmm.
[00:06:32] karina: And I think they kind of gave up on me over the years. I mean by this, I was already very late, I was divorced.
[00:06:39] karina: Their
[00:06:39] karina: divorce was very difficult for them to understand And
[00:06:43] karina: when I met my current husband,
[00:06:47] karina: they thought that kids were not on the
[00:06:50] karina: cards. So I actually only told them when we were about five months pregnant.
[00:06:56] Mikenzie: Hmm. Wow. I guess you could hide it because you probably weren't seeing them physically in person. I wanna get to the first marriage in a minute, but going
[00:07:07] Mikenzie: back to it, you're incredibly career ambitious. I'm also curious where that side came from you and why you couldn't see having a big career and being a mother at the same time, especially after leaving Mexico, going to the us, going to London.
[00:07:27] Mikenzie: Was it that you didn't really have examples seeing that around or it just didn't interest you
[00:07:33] Mikenzie: regardless of the big career?
[00:07:35] karina: I think the latter. I think there are always
[00:07:38] karina: examples of women who really want kids and made it work with their career. But I was
[00:07:44] karina: also mindful that I left Mexico over 20 years ago since I've lived in nine different
[00:07:50] karina: countries.
[00:07:52] Mikenzie: Wow.
[00:07:52] karina: Help is not something that comes with moving around. I didn't have,
[00:07:58] karina:
[00:07:58] karina: sisters and friends and support, nannies.
[00:08:03] karina: I didn't have
[00:08:04] karina: that around of the uncles and the aunties
[00:08:06] karina: who could take care of my kid whilst I was at work. So it also makes you think, well, it will come with a big sacrifice of my kid having to be always at nursery or with nannies or with people
[00:08:22] karina: away from my family if I want to continue my
[00:08:25] karina: career.
[00:08:27] karina: And I didn't like that idea.
[00:08:29] karina: I didn't like the idea that my kid will grow with third parties or strangers, even though they can be very loving.
[00:08:37] karina: the other part was that it never came into the picture. I wanted to travel the world. I wanted to have multiple. Experiences in life and to lead very big
[00:08:48] karina: international teams where, as you know, I used to live on a plane and travel up
[00:08:53] karina: to three countries per week. Kids didn't
[00:08:56] karina: shape the picture. So it was never a difficult conversation for me
[00:09:01] karina: to have. It was the obvious conversation for me to have, just to
[00:09:04] karina: say, that is not for me.
[00:09:08] karina: Kids are not in the picture. And that's fine.
[00:09:11] karina: Some friends understood it, some others were just polite, and that's fine too.
[00:09:19] karina: but very few question it, thanks to London,
[00:09:24] karina: I I do believe
[00:09:25] karina: the power of this community is significantly more open-minded.
[00:09:28] karina: But my friends in London didn't question it. They just give it as a given that Karina was not gonna have kids. And that's fine.
[00:09:38] karina: it was my partner who actually changed the narrative.
[00:09:42] Mikenzie: Yeah. And before we get to him, let's go to your first partner because it's interesting. Very career focused, traveling all the time, not interested in having kids yet. Got married very young at 22, was it
[00:09:58] karina: 22. We met, we got married. 24.
[00:10:00] Mikenzie: 24? So still very, very young. So how did being married fit into this ambitious career vision, traveling the world, wanting to be a COO of a global company, and how was that alignment around the conversation of not wanting to have kids as well?
[00:10:19] karina: So it was interesting because I never felt like it was a marriage. He was my best friend and he he is equally ambitious. So when we met, we both work for this massive international company.
[00:10:36] karina: We both want to go abroad. We both
[00:10:38] karina: want to do an MBA and it was very easy for us to make
[00:10:43] karina: the decision about it's easier to do it together than to do it
[00:10:48] karina: alone each separately. And that make things quite organically
[00:10:54] karina: seamless. We got married or we accelerated, let's say the marriage because of the US
[00:11:00] karina: visa.
[00:11:01] Mikenzie: Okay.
[00:11:01] karina: cause it was easier to go under one visa together than do two separate visas. It was easier to apply to an MBA together as a couple and get both of us accepted rather than two separate application in multiple ivy schools.
[00:11:16] karina: Because what if he got into Harvard and I got into MIT what we were gonna
[00:11:19] karina: do. So navigating that,
[00:11:23] karina: new territory, we always thought it
[00:11:25] karina: was much funner.
[00:11:28] karina: Exciting if we were doing it together. But the ambition never changed. We were both ultra career focused to the point that when
[00:11:37] karina: we graduated from the IBA,
[00:11:40] karina: I stay in New York, he went to South Korea, then I went to Poland.
[00:11:45] karina: He met me in Poland,
[00:11:46] karina: but then he got a job in London And, then I had to get a job in London
[00:11:49] karina: myself.
[00:11:50] Mikenzie: and
[00:11:50] Mikenzie: is that when you
[00:11:51] Mikenzie: went to Palantir?
[00:11:53] karina: Not
[00:11:53] karina: yet I, that happened after, but that's what brought me his role
[00:12:00] karina: in London, make me find a role in
[00:12:04] karina: London for myself because we were.
[00:12:08] karina: Five, six years married, and we were living in every country in the world, but never together.
[00:12:15] karina: when he was living in South Korea, I was living in China just to be close by, which we all know is not close, but it's closer than New York.
[00:12:24] Mikenzie: What was your work at that time to enable so much trouble?
[00:12:28] karina: at the time I was working for Citigroup in a global program where they, it's, it was a small program of 10 MBAs where they picked one person per top, BA in the world, and then they train us in order to become, managers or global. Citizens with a financial background. So every year they rotate us to do a different role within the bank so that you will understand markets and product and trade and treasury risk, compliance, governance,
[00:13:06] Mikenzie: Hmm.
[00:13:06] karina: that they shape the way we think and hopefully in 10, 15, 20 years we can become one of the leaders of the bank.
[00:13:14] karina: And I was incredibly lucky of getting into that program, but that also meant that every year I was in a different country. So we sign up for career prioritization kids. No way. Whereabout.
[00:13:30] karina: they were
[00:13:31] Mikenzie: you're both on the same page about that, which I guess makes things easier. Yeah.
[00:13:37] karina: Totally. And 10 years later we were both living in London and we both realized that we loved our jobs and we were very career oriented, but we were not a couple, we were best friends.
[00:13:50] karina: And it's one of those conversations where between two adults to just sit at the table and say, I don't think this is working. And I want you in my life, but I also wanna have a partner in my life. How do we do this? And he's very conscious, I call it conscious decoupling, where you understand, you both love each other very much, but you're meant to be friends.
[00:14:16] karina: You're not meant to be partners. And with that, and one of the hardest things I ever done, but having that conversation, we, we split up and we went through divorce and we went through having to reinvent ourselves as. Because for 10 years we've been together, we grew up together basically.
[00:14:39] Mikenzie: How did you cope with that? Especially working all the time? Traveling all the time? I'm sure there was a huge emotional burden to going through a divorce process. Lou, your partner, who hopefully it sounds like you guys had a good divorce, so stage your best friend, but you know, obviously a very emotional time.
[00:15:01] Mikenzie: What was your support system? How did you navigate that for yourself?
[00:15:07] karina: It was horrible. Like I think there was no easy way of going through a divorce. In my case, it's probably one of the easiest divorces you could see in paper. But reality is that you're missing 50% of who you are because you don't. You see yourself as. Him and you, you and him, you don't see that person as a separate entity.
[00:15:36] karina: So suddenly being in your mid thirties and realizing that you are on your own and you move into an apartment alone and you come home to turn on the light, it's heartbreaking. And I think psychologically it's even more than anything because you have to relearn who you are as an individual. Before and after having been a couple, I navigated it by devoting myself to work.
[00:16:09] karina: That is what I was a Palantir. So suddenly became, we were preparing for an IPO.
[00:16:16] Mikenzie: Can you explain your role at Palantir
[00:16:18] karina: sure. So I joined as part of the CEO's office, came from being the chief staff of the CEO of CDE. In the UK to becoming part of, Dr. Car's office. And in one of the many conversations I had with them, one, the IPO was always on the cards, of course, in a very, very private way.
[00:16:39] karina: But one of the, things that they really wanted to achieve was opening new markets and expanding the international presence, which is very similar to what I've been helping out at Citi, particularly after Brexit. finding new licenses, finding new, trade partners, making sure that our footprint, if anything, was bigger.
[00:16:58] karina: When I joined, it was 1.7 trillion and we needed to grow that. So we were talking about very big numbers, and when I joined Palantir, it was exactly the same. The team in London was a tiny office and we just had to. Double, triple, quadruple our presence. So my role became opening new markets for them and making sure we find very good trade partners fortune 500 companies, that we could influence and support them in the way they use their data and the operational efficiency that they could have, internationally.
[00:17:38] Mikenzie: So very big job. Threw yourself into it for the divorce. Yeah.
[00:17:45] karina: And honestly I don't advise people to be workaholics when they're going through a major life changing event. But for me it worked in the sense that it gave me purpose. 'cause every market that we opened, every new agreement that was signed. It gave me excitement. It gave make me feel like I was doing something of a greater good rather than focusing on my own broken family time.
[00:18:18] karina: So it helped me navigate that, that and my amazing psychologist who I joined at very odd hours, whatever I was, because I didn't wanna miss a meeting with her. She was absolutely fabulous. But I think the power of having emotional support when you need it, but also redirecting your mind into something greater, really help navigate that.
[00:18:42] karina: Probably year, year and a half, where I still feel very unsettled from a family perspective.
[00:18:48] Mikenzie: I do think sometimes having work or something that you care about a lot that's external to you is really helpful in these hard times. You know, it's kind of a distraction, but I think that's better than just sitting in that pain with no distraction.
[00:19:07] Mikenzie: and you accelerated your career even more
[00:19:10] Mikenzie: and then you met your now husband Dominic, also while at Palantir. And I'm curious to talk about your experience of meeting him and how initially you weren't aligned on the future of career and family because he wanted a family, you wanted to double down on career. So how was that beginning of dating? Obviously it worked out in the end, but curious to hear the evolution of that.
[00:19:45] karina: That was a mess. Like when we met, I was on a business trip to Palo Alto living in London, and he was living in Palo Alto. So we went on a date and then he didn't realize that I was not living in Palo Alto. So he was like, so where's home? I'm like, London. He was like, what? So it was really interesting 'cause we kind of started with a left foot, but we had the best first date that I ever had.
[00:20:24] karina: And on our second date, which was the next day, I, I had three more days in Palo Alto before I had to fly to New York. And on the second date we, I remember sitting on a restaurant and him asking me, would you like to have children? I like, not with him. He was not that pressure, but. It was more like, is it on your
[00:20:45] karina: life
[00:20:45] karina: map?
[00:20:46] Mikenzie: make sure you're on the same page. Especially, it's hard enough. You're long distance, you know? Are we seeing eye to eye?
[00:20:52] karina: Everything I do, I, and I was like, no. And he was like, oh, I wanna have three. I was like, oh, well, well, I guess no, but it was really funny because we had a super deep conversations in our second date. We talked about career goals, life, where do we want to leave, what type of, purpose we wanted to have in life.
[00:21:19] karina: And everything else was incredibly aligned except having children. So it was a little bit of a weird feeling of, I really like him. We can laugh, we can have deep conversations. We feel attracted to each other. But we clearly have one very strong problem to solve. And it was very sweet because we kept dating.
[00:21:48] karina: neither of us wanted to end it. We kept dating, but every so often we will revisit the topic and the conclusion of me was, well, I could think about one. And he was like, well, maybe two will be okay.
[00:22:02] Mikenzie: using those negotiation skills.
[00:22:06] karina: exactly, every few months, we will narrow down both of us. I will add a little bit up. He will reduce a little bit. And suddenly we were kind of converging into a place where we were like, it's not the end of the conversation. We clearly want to give in for each other, but we were still massively long distance.
[00:22:27] karina: Then COVID comes and. He takes a one way ticket to London. 'cause he was living alone in Palo Alto. I was living one of my best friends in London, but it was super lonely for both of us because we just connected over Zoom. and suddenly we are living in this tiny apartment.
[00:22:49] karina: He was still working California hours. And it became very obvious, how much we love spending time with each other. And I do think COVID was a make it or break it for many relationships. And in our case it was a hundred percent a make it. And also it make me notice how. Beautiful it will be to have a mini version of him because I wanted that legacy.
[00:23:14] karina: I wanted him to have that. And he wanted so badly to be a father and to see the world through a kid's lens, that he helped me understood the beauty of having kids around and rediscovering the world in many other ways. So very slowly and without any pressure. It was more of a conversation that in my head, came more and more obvious.
[00:23:45] karina: And with Palantir, we also had the benefit of freezing eggs. So I took that and I was like, well, not that I intend to use them, but I like the idea of having options, if anything, gives me options not to have to make a decision anytime soon. And. That part I loved. So we went through that. We froze a few eggs.
[00:24:09] karina: We were thinking about freezing embryos. You go through the process, which is a very intense process, but it help us ease the pressure from an age perspective.
[00:24:20] karina: However, the clock was still ticking,
[00:24:22] karina: right?
[00:24:23] karina: Yeah. And so At this time, you left Palantir, you have frozen eggs, and then you're leading operations at another international company and you decide to try for kids, but you're struggling to keep the pregnancies at that time, but also loving your job, crushing it, leading this huge team.
[00:24:45] Mikenzie: Can you talk about that time a bit?
[00:24:49] karina: I think that was probably one of the most intense times in my life. So I, I had a team of about a little bit of about a hundred people divided in five countries, and I was genuinely addicted to my job. I love my team, I love the people, I love the mission that we were after, and being able to empower that 24 hours operations.
[00:25:15] karina: It was also very, very stressful because the company's a service company powered by technology, but because it's a service, it's powered by operations. So that was my team working around the clock 24 7. I didn't have much or any of the weekends. The nights, early morning things happen at two in the morning on a random Tuesday.
[00:25:39] karina: So by this time we were already almost two years trying to proactively get pregnant and my body kept being unable to keep the pregnancies time after time. We were not able to continue the pregnancy and it is heartbreaking. You try many ways. I try to rationalize it and be like, don't worry. A statistic says that for your first pregnancy in your late thirties, know it takes a couple of tries, but reality is that you are thinking.
[00:26:14] karina: And putting your body to an extreme amount of stress, very disruptive sleep, and you're still expecting the body to be able to carry life. So for many other women might be possible, but my body was constantly telling me, Nope. And it was after our, I would say, our worst miscarriage of one. that took a very a strong toll of us that happened actually during the board meeting.
[00:26:42] karina: And I had, yeah,
[00:26:44] karina: I start feeling the contractions rushed to the hospital, and then they simply told me they had to terminate it. And
[00:26:53] Mikenzie: ask how many weeks you were?
[00:26:55] karina: close to 12. So we hadn't told absolutely anyone, but it was the farthest we have gotten so far. And during that time. I remember even texting at the time with my team saying, I might be back by 5:00 PM Like, that's
[00:27:13] Mikenzie: Did they know what was happening?
[00:27:15] karina: only one or two.
[00:27:17] karina: Nobody knew. I told nobody. And you
[00:27:19] Mikenzie: Did people know you were trying for, like did they know generally you were trying for a baby and struggling?
[00:27:25] karina: knew.
[00:27:26] Mikenzie: Okay.
[00:27:27] karina: No, I, I, I kept it very privately. but
[00:27:30] Mikenzie: Can I ask why you decided to keep it private?
[00:27:35] karina: I think we were very much focused on the business and I thought, I will tell them once the baby is like, once we have passed the 12, 14 weeks of. Understanding if I'm gonna be able to keep this pregnancy, because I didn't want anyone asking me about previous miscarriages. It was something deeply personal to Dominic and I
[00:28:00] Mikenzie: Yeah.
[00:28:00] karina: and the fact that you're trying, but you're unsuccessful.
[00:28:04] karina: You know? You don't want other people to remind you, oh, so what happened? You know what? I don't wanna talk about it. Like it was too, there were too many unknowns for us to solve that idea. Needed two more cooks on the kitchen.
[00:28:19] Mikenzie: yeah, that makes sense. I'm also just wondering from the flip side, which is like once again huge emotional situation happening, maybe needing to take time off work or being a little bit distracted where having some support would be helpful or you felt like actually it was good to just be like, this is me at work.
[00:28:42] Mikenzie: I'm not gonna think about this here. and then when I'm home with Dominic, we can go through what we need to together.
[00:28:50] karina: I think I took it the same way as I took the divorce. Nobody at Palantir knew that I was going through divorce.
[00:28:55] Mikenzie: Oh, okay.
[00:28:56] karina: Nobody equally, nobody knew that I was going through pregnancy and non pregnancy. I think my personal life, I always kept it very separate from work because work was a way for me to cope, so I didn't have to explain anything to anyone.
[00:29:14] Mikenzie: Yeah.
[00:29:14] karina: but of course there was a huge emotional toll of that was happening in the background. And it was not until this miscarriage where Dominic actually simply, again sat me down and we had a very good conversations. And he simply said, I think you actually have to take a break because if we have any chance to have a healthy baby.
[00:29:40] karina: It might not happen whilst you're still working 24 hours. And it took me a long time to think about it, and it was the December break where you know, it was very slow. The market is like the one week of quietness. And during that break I was really thinking about it and thinking, what am I gonna do if my body's unable to carry a baby?
[00:30:04] karina: Do we want to go through the eggs? Do we wanna and try IVF? Do we want to adopt? Do we just don't wanna have kids? but I knew how much Dominic really wanted to have a kid, and I felt, well, maybe I should take a break and give it a go. But I've been working for 17 years nonstop. My longest ever vacation has been a week for honeymoon.
[00:30:28] karina: I. So, yeah,Stopping was really not on my cards. it's not part of who I am, I just say I'm a recovering workaholic. And I, I did it. I put my rest. I didn't tell anyone. I just put my resignation and it broke my heart in many ways. It broke my heart to think that I was not gonna be there when my team achieved X or Y or set goals that we have set up for ourselves and break my heart thinking that I was not gonna be the one encouraging the team and pumping and then directing it.
[00:31:06] karina: But within the week we got pregnant again. And
[00:31:10] Mikenzie: Crazy.
[00:31:12] karina: it was just fascinating to see the way my body reacted and that pregnancy went as good as a textbook could tell you. It was the perfect, easiest pregnancy that I could ever had. We hiked the Himalayas. I learned how to wing serve. We did CrossFit until five days before giving birth.
[00:31:35] karina: it was extraordinary. What the body is, how quickly the body's able to recover and give life when you set it for the right conditions. At least my body, and I can only speak for my personal experience, but I will never change a thing. I have the happiest, most beautiful toddler I could ever think of.
[00:31:58] Mikenzie: it's incredible.The week after you resign, how quickly your body was like, okay, now we're ready. This is what I needed. What was that identity shift like for you as this woman who's only taken a week off for her honeymoon over 17 years, who has thrown themselves into work? Been incredibly successful and kind of identified around that.
[00:32:24] Mikenzie: How was that to take that time off through the pregnancy and then through being a mother, I.
[00:32:36] karina: Still evolving, I would say. some days are better than others. I'm still, in many ways finding what that identity is. I think it's the very beginning. I was deeply enjoying the time off, trying to catch up with as many friends as possible that I have non prioritized for years. traveling a bit to see those friends and to meet their kids, and to be with people that I loved in my past, but I haven't had the time to reconnect.
[00:33:10] karina: As the pregnancy advance, I felt more in tune with my new identity or the new chapter in my identity, which was becoming a mom, being not only a partner, but actually building a family. And a few months after having my son Sun, the excitement of going back at work to kicked in again. And I felt that need or that joy for rebuilding teams and going back to being part of that further bigger mission. So I said it's ever evolving because II, I think there's many facets to any human and you want to be a partner and I want my relationship, I. But I also want my kid and I want to spend quality time with him, but I also like my team and I like building teams and operating big companies, but I also want to travel and open new markets.
[00:34:20] karina: So there's, it's a balancing act, which I still haven't figured out. Some days are better than others, and I can tell you I try my best and I still feel I underperforming all of them.
[00:34:34] Mikenzie: When Leo was first born, was there anything particularly surprising? Both, either in a positive way or a challenging way in becoming a mom?
[00:34:50] karina: The power of hormones.
[00:34:53] karina: both Dominic and I were very worried that. I could have postpartum depression just because of the intense career that I've had and then feeling, you know, that I had now a full-time, tiny person to take care of. And it was the opposite.
[00:35:17] karina: I just felt this burst of love that I have never felt before in my life.
[00:35:23] karina: And it's so hard to explain. We have heard the term mother's love many times, and many people try to explain it to me, but I cannot explain it myself. I can just say, hormones take over you, and suddenly I felt there was no place in the world. I'd rather be that rider with my husband and my baby, and I just wanted immortalize that.
[00:35:49] karina: Time and for quite a few months I couldn't even think about business ideas or work. I just wanted to spend time with my baby and to see him and to see the world through his eyes where everything is new, everything is exciting, everything is fascinating,
[00:36:15] Mikenzie:
[00:36:15] karina: that part was super precious.
[00:36:18] Mikenzie: That's beautiful. And so then how long did you take, I mean, I guess it wasn't maternity leave because you weren't working, but before you started thinking about and looking for a new job.
[00:36:31] karina: it took me about six, seven months in this burst of love and excitement before my. Inner workaholic start kicking in.
[00:36:41] Mikenzie: Was that your initial plan had you thought about, okay, I'm gonna take X amount of time after the baby's born, before I start looking, or you were like, let's see how it goes.
[00:36:51] karina: I had no plan.
[00:36:53] karina: There was absolutely zero plan in every way. All I was thinking was what the next month was going to be. It was a completely shift of mindset from having planned my life to I'll take every week at a time. and it was actually quite liberating to think that way because there was no expectation from anyone or anything of what my life should be like.
[00:37:23] karina: It was more about how I felt and when I felt that it was time for me to, go back.
[00:37:31] Mikenzie: Did you feel any financial pressure or being outta the workforce too long pressure in terms of that timeline? I.
[00:37:42] karina: Yes, absolutely. So financial pressure, we're very lucky. We didn't cut any in practice, it was very strange not receiving a paycheck.
[00:37:57] karina: It's a strange, it still is a very strange feeling because I've had one for 17 years, so I'm still coming to terms in how that feels.
[00:38:07] karina: from,Career perspective let's say CV perspective. It felt, and it still feels really strange for me not having your next thing aligned.
[00:38:19] karina: It was like, well, I've al already taken a year off. Isn't that enough? A career gap? How am I gonna be perceived on the market for taking too long off, strange thinking now, but I would still question that a year ago.
[00:38:37] karina: And I will still feel that it was taking too long. and I should go back because I have taken a little bit too long outside of the workforce.
[00:38:48] Mikenzie: what was your experience once you finally started recruiting for jobs as a mother? Now I.
[00:38:55] karina: Brutal. So. I thought that because we were in London, this is a forward looking market. I've had a really intense and very privileged career in many ways, and I have never had to look for a job. Been lucky that it's always been headhunted from one role to the next and or met incredible founders who I really wanna work with.
[00:39:25] karina: And for the first time, I spent about seven to nine months intensely reaching out to every recruiter that I have worked with in the past who helped me build my teams, who helped me, transition roles. But all of them were, could have been the market. It could have been me, it could have been both, but in every single conversation that I had with recruiters or hiring managers.
[00:39:55] karina: They will all ask me, what have you been doing in the past year? And I will be brutally honest. I would say, oh, I had my baby. And I found that those conversations were actually not going very well after that. And in many ways they asked me, well,now that you have a family, I guess you need more flexibility, would you be considered cutting your salary by half?
[00:40:23] karina: I was like, what do you mean? Or, well, I guess now you need a different type of role. Why don't you take on this junior role, which might be more aligned to
[00:40:35] Mikenzie: what type of roles were you recruiting for
[00:40:39] karina: all COO roles. COOs, VP of Operation. in various series A, series B companies, which is what I've been doing for many, many years.
[00:40:49] karina: but I found that the might be because they're VC funded, it might be because they think they, I cannot move at the pace that they want us to move because I have a family now. They also asked me what type of arrangement I had at home for who was gonna take care of the baby. I wonder if anyone ever asked Amanda that question.
[00:41:10] Mikenzie: Yeah. Probably not.
[00:41:13] karina: I have never heard. nobody has asked my husband who is taking care of the baby, and technically it should be legal to us for that, but it was happening and they were asking me about cutting my salary. Reducing my role to some other role that could pay literally half or questioning my decision to go back to work when my son was still little. I was like, wait a minute. Why are you questioning my decision of what I want to do with my life? What I'm here for is to build or help you build a company and
[00:41:50] Mikenzie: Right. It's like you're hiring me for my capabilities. Then it's up to me to figure out how I make it work.
[00:41:55] karina: a hundred percent. Like Who do you think you are To tell me what I have to do at home in order for me to be able to do my best job? But I found I was heartbroken by the way. I, I literally cried after a few conversations with recruits or
[00:42:12] Mikenzie: I'm sure that's so hard and you have an insane cv, it's just so crazy and messed up. It makes me very angry to hear that.
[00:42:22] karina: I was angry, I was frustrated, I was discouraged. I literally told my husband, I think I ruined my career by having a kid.
[00:42:32] karina: And I happened to have the most amazing husband in the world, which I feel very lucky for. And I try to tell him every single day how much I adore him. But imagine feeling that way and feeling why people are not asking the men any of these questions.
[00:42:55] karina: It's year 2025. What's wrong with people? And I also thought it's London. Isn't this one of the most progressive cities in the world? How is it for other women in other cities? I don't think it's much better
[00:43:11] Mikenzie: no,
[00:43:11] karina: if I go to latam as I go to Asia. If I think about Africa, I don't think it's. It's more progressive than London, so therefore, what are those women putting up with when trying to go back to the market?
[00:43:24] karina: I also, one of my friends, oh gosh, she advised me to join this newsletter for women to going back to work and I was like, okay, I'll join the newsletter. Let's see what's coming up. With all the roles. Were executive assistant,
[00:43:38] karina: type of chief of staff very much on the EA side and Assistant X, assistant y assistant to
[00:43:51] Mikenzie: Yeah.
[00:43:51] karina: McKenzie was blowing my mind.
[00:43:53] karina: I'm like, I don't need to be assistant of anyone. I know how to run the show, but it seems that mothers are seen as, or in my case my experience was that it was seen as now you can take the back seat. Because you have other priorities.
[00:44:12] Mikenzie: it's so insane to me because having these conversations, you know, one of the reasons I started with this is I feel like mothers at work, can't talk about being a mother. They just have to have their work face on because
[00:44:24] Mikenzie: You have like a mother penalty. But for me, having these conversations, I'm just like, these women are bad asses. this should be a CV line item of like, I can be a mother and do all of this other stuff in a way that men cannot do or not expected to do in the same way. So it's just very. Surprising and frustrating
[00:44:50] Mikenzie: to hear that experience.
[00:44:53] karina: but at the same time, I don't feel as How can I explain this? I don't feel we should feel like a victim there. Yes, we may be, but feeling like a victim is not gonna change anything. So I was telling my frustration with my life friends. I was telling her the passion because during my entire pregnancy, I became obsessed to understand what had been happening to my cells in order to not being able to create life before and to be able to create life now.
[00:45:26] karina: And I went deep. I called doctors, I called nutritionist. I called every single renowned expert in the longevity industry that could explain to me. Why my body wasn't able to carry life before and what happened for it to be able to have this model pregnancy now. And during all those conversations, I realized how much incredible cellular damage I've done over the years by having these extreme travel, time zone, stress pattern that I've had for my jobs, which I've loved.
[00:46:07] karina: But they come with it, they come as a toll.I went really, really deep in the science and I was telling all of this to one of my good friends who
[00:46:17] karina: we met about 12 years ago and we were talking about this and she's like, let's just start a company. Let's build this because we cannot be the only ones.
[00:46:26] Mikenzie: build the change you wanna see?
[00:46:28] karina: yeah, like it has taken me, months to gather the information that I wanted about my own body.
[00:46:38] karina: Extreme amount of diagnostics, scatter around different doctors. that I feel very privileged of being able to have the access to them. But it has been super painful because I get different advice from different people. And then you have to use your judgment and marry the advice that you think is best for you and make it super personalized.
[00:47:01] karina: But not everyone has the time, the resources, or the, obsession for the industry to be able to come to these. level of deepness themselves. So talking to her, I was like, you know what? Let's do it. I haven't been able to find a job that I love. I definitely have not been able to get a similar level of responsibility as I had before, which is something I would love to go back to.
[00:47:27] karina: Why not building it ourselves? So that's how we build our own company. And now I'm obsessed with only employing mothers because I feel they're one of the most wonderful, hardworking, incredible people that will never let you down. Similar to how they will never let their kid down, they will never let business down.
[00:47:48] karina: So basically our company's like run by mothers.
[00:47:52] Mikenzie: I love that. I wanna ask a bit more about that in a second. But first, give us the quick, elevator pitch For Longvia
[00:48:00] Mikenzie:
[00:48:00] karina: so MBIA Boutique consultancy firm where we dedicate to work closely with real estate developers, asset owners, or investors to create longevity hubs. So they can be either repurposing one less space in a luxury, hotel where they want to repurpose it for longevity perspective or created a brand new space and navigating into what the concept, the personas, the purpose of that space is going to be dedicated into wellbeing and longevity.
[00:48:34] Mikenzie: Very cool. And how has your experience been building the company as a mother? I. For yourself. And then how has it been building a company with a team of mothers? 'cause you've run companies of a team of, you know, presumably mixed mothers, not mothers, women, men. So curious the difference there as well, both for yourself, and for working with a team.
[00:49:02] karina: So hard to compare because it's a different industry, but how has it been to build a company? Incredible. The response from the market of once we found the pain point, which the pain point is how do you make real estate incredibly successful in the longevity space? How do you dedicate that square footage a space into longevity?
[00:49:29] karina: And you find that pain. And you can create and redirect that pain into something really profitable, but also really purposeful, has been fascinating.
[00:49:43] karina: And I think I have never loved more my job that I do now. And I would have not say that for my last job, which I adore. But I feel now it's, it has even a deeper meaning because we are generally helping people live more joyful life and a healthier lives.
[00:50:05] karina: And giving the gift of health to somebody and helping them reshape their habits to become a better version of themself can be very powerful. Building it with a team, it's hard to compare because before the team was much bigger, much more than diverse. In multiple countries now, we're all European based and everyone is so obsessed with the topic that is seamless is very easy.
[00:50:38] karina: If anything, we just get overly excited with ideas and overly excited with the thinking process, and we just wanna add more. I don't have to do any motivational speech because there's no one to motivate. They are motivated. So it is just a different perception. It's also early days. I think the more we grow, the more complex we can become, the more international we become.
[00:51:04] karina: It will come as well with some level of, complexity in how we operate, which we don't have today. Today everyone is so incredibly motivated that. It's pretty easy. clients are more, it's, they're way more interesting because they're varied. They want very different things.
[00:51:23] Mikenzie: Yeah. how do you manage your schedule today between building the company and the parenting care duties?
[00:51:37] karina: every day is a little bit different, but again, I feel incredibly privilege of having. A support system that keeps the house running because I don't keep the house running. So my husband has a 50% job, which allows him to be home every afternoon, for our son.
[00:51:57] Mikenzie: Did he change that when Leo was born?
[00:52:00] karina: yes,
[00:52:02] karina: he did. He wanted to be a dad. And we were incredibly lucky that the company where he is at, we're ultra generous. And they gave him the opportunity to go 50% and we have loved since. so he spends a lot of time with Leo. He's also the primary carer. Of our son and amazing dad and Leo sees him as the primary carer, which is a conscious choice that we did.
[00:52:26] karina: We also have an incredible nanny who help us, during the day so that we can both work. And I try my very best. Not every day works, but I try to dedicate from five to 7:00 PM to be a mom and only a mom. So I do my very best not to look at my phone or my emails or take meetings between this time so that I can be with him.
[00:52:49] karina: and then more often than not, once Leo has gone to bed, I still have to dedicate another couple of hours if no more for work. But something I'm consciously every day trying to work on is being a better, more efficient, worker, and also trying to dedicate quality time with my family. Away from devices so that I don't make mistakes that I've done in the past of putting work first above everything else, and then realizing that I have lost connection with the people that I love the most.
[00:53:27] karina: And that is an everyday balance, which some days goes well, some days not so well.
[00:53:33] Mikenzie: I'm curious now how you view your identity in terms of just holistically as a person, but as a career woman, as a mother, as a friend, a partner. Do you feel like you have a more balanced sense of identity, or do you still feel like I want a huge career and I can do all these other things on the side?
[00:53:57] karina: It's a great question and I think some days I feel really content and happy with where I am. I love what we're building. I think it's very powerful. I also, some days I do miss having my large team where we had an idea and with the power of the team, we just execute. And before you knew it, it was done.
[00:54:29] karina: And some days I still miss that. I have my days where I feel like it would be so nice right now to call this and this and this person in my team and just get it done. on the other hand, I will never change the joy and true inner happiness that gives me having Leo and Dom in my life. And I know that if I hadn't had that break from work, Leo will probably not be on the cards.
[00:55:02] karina: And my relationship with Dom, I would have never been able to discover Dom as a father rather than only my husband, and I generally can say I love him even more now that I have seen and experienced this other side of him that is also very beautiful on top of being an amazing partner.
[00:55:25] Mikenzie: part of what's unique about your story is that because you couldn't get the role that you wanted in a larger company, you chose entrepreneurship and hearing your story in a way, it seems like there's actually a lot of benefits to entrepreneurship. Role versus what you described as your role in your previous companies.
[00:55:45] Mikenzie: and so I'm curious now that you are building your own company, obviously it's incredibly hard work, but how you think about the trade-offs in
[00:55:54] Mikenzie: risk and opportunity
[00:55:56] Mikenzie: and entrepreneurship versus
[00:55:57] Mikenzie: if you were to take a more traditional role at a company.
[00:56:02] karina: I think that's a whole other podcast,
[00:56:04] Mikenzie: Okay,
[00:56:06] Mikenzie: fair
[00:56:07] Mikenzie: enough.
[00:56:07] karina: I'll try to do a two liner, which is
[00:56:09] karina: entrepreneurship is not for the faint
[00:56:11] karina: of hearted. It is really hard work and it's a lot of unknowns.
[00:56:21] karina: There's also very, at the very beginning, there's very little reassurance on anything. So you can work for a year, two years, three years on an idea, and unless you find product market fit, and unless your clients wanted and you execute extraordinarily well before above any other competitor, your idea might be still be wiped, and you might just have worked three years basically for free.
[00:56:51] karina: So it is definitely not for the faint of hearted when it comes to
[00:56:57] karina: how cold it is or how glorified it is to being an entrepreneur. It's not easy. On the other hand, you are dedicating your time, your brain, your energy into something that you truly care about and. You are also working with people that you adore working with.
[00:57:23] karina: Those two are super powerful because you have. The topic that you love and it doesn't feel like you're spending time with time flies by because you're just getting immersed in something that you love. And on the other hand, the people that you're working with are equally excited because they're your co-founders.
[00:57:45] karina: your first hire. They wouldn't be there if they were seeing this as a job. They see this as their own baby. So. Yeah.
[00:57:56] karina: that combination is very powerful and you think about it at breakfast, you think about it when you sleep. You think about it when you're taking a shower. You think about it when you're walking to the shop.
[00:58:08] karina: It is 24 7 mental challenge. It's also 24 7 excitement about what are you gonna do next. Now, combined with a toddler is also. Like having two screaming children asking for your attention
[00:58:28] karina: so that I sometimes feel like kind of hot twins or children with one year difference, whether both of them really, really want mommy, but mommy, there's only one mommy.
[00:58:41] karina: So you have to find the balance.
[00:58:44] Mikenzie: Yeah. But with the
[00:58:45] Mikenzie: type of jobs you were working before it, it
[00:58:48] Mikenzie: wouldn't be so different in
[00:58:49] Mikenzie: terms of that, right? You were really dedicated to your previous roles, so
[00:58:54] karina: I think in terms of timing is very similar in, in the time that, You have to dedicate,
[00:59:00] Mikenzie: mental space is more with entrepreneurship.
[00:59:03] karina: Yeah.
[00:59:04] Mikenzie: we talked a little bit about the prospect of a second
[00:59:09] Mikenzie: kid, and I was curious if you could
[00:59:12] Mikenzie: talk a, little bit about how you're
[00:59:14] Mikenzie: thinking about
[00:59:15] Mikenzie: that, and then I'll just ask you one more question and
[00:59:17] Mikenzie: we'll wrap up.
[00:59:18] karina: A a, a, the second kid, it's a topic my husband and I discuss every month
[00:59:27] karina: and
[00:59:27] karina: every month we ask the question and every month we keep thinking,
[00:59:32] karina: let's ask ourself next month.
[00:59:36] karina: So it is a very unsolved story, which generally, I dunno. I don't know if we will want to try and if we try, I don't know if we will succeed.
[00:59:51] karina: But what I do know is that I would have had serious regret of not having had Leo now knowing what mothers love can't be
[01:00:07] Mikenzie: Mm.
[01:00:09] karina: for me. I don't think it's for everyone and I, I truly believe everyone should make their own decision if they want or not. I have many friends who have decided not to have children, and I totally get where they're coming from.
[01:00:25] karina: I also think I happen to have a somebody in my life who I couldn't imagine not wanting to have a piece of him, and now I wake up in the morning. I just get this beautiful baby who looks at me as if I was better than Taylor Swift, and I don't know for how long that last. I.
[01:00:51] Mikenzie: Your number one
[01:00:52] Mikenzie: fan?
[01:00:53] karina: He is my fan?
[01:00:54] karina: and I have never
[01:00:55] karina: had such a loyal fan in my
[01:00:58] karina: life, and I know that it won't last long, and I know that he will develop his own friends and his own personality and his own aspirations.
[01:01:07] karina: So I'm just trying to enjoy every single day that I have him before. He wants to have find his own personality and his own life and his own way of discovering the world. And I will miss that. I will miss having that level of connection with him that we have today.
[01:01:28] Mikenzie: I guess leaving
[01:01:29] Mikenzie: it up to
[01:01:30] Mikenzie: fate a little bit and
[01:01:32] Mikenzie: you know, hard
[01:01:33] karina: It is a very hard decision. I also, I really question how
[01:01:37] karina: does the second one work? Because I love Leo so much that I cannot imagine being able to love something else as much as I love him.
[01:01:48] Mikenzie: heart. Splits again.
[01:01:50] karina: another very close friend once told me, you don't divide Your heart Your heart just expanded. And I like thinking it
[01:02:00] karina: way.
[01:02:01] karina: I really like thinking that. my heart just expanded when I met my husband and it expanded again when we had our kids, and who knows if it will expand again. I don't know.
[01:02:13] Mikenzie: Well. it's exciting for
[01:02:14] Mikenzie: what's to
[01:02:15] karina: I'll text you if we get pregnant, but not on the cards the moment. Definitely. We're not trying,
[01:02:20] Mikenzie: Well, you already
[01:02:21] Mikenzie: have two babies, so
[01:02:22] Mikenzie: you've got a
[01:02:22] Mikenzie: lot
[01:02:23] karina: there's a lot going on right now. I'm not sure if, a third baby will be on the cards anytime soon.
[01:02:29] Mikenzie: yeah,
[01:02:29] Mikenzie:
[01:02:30] Mikenzie: Okay,So I'd like to end on a quick fire round of questions. So I'll just ask a question, quick response. what's one thing that
[01:02:37] Mikenzie: Leo has taught you that's made
[01:02:38] Mikenzie: you a better founder?
[01:02:40] karina: Patience, patience. Things don't go the way you want them to
[01:02:46] karina: go, but you have to respect and wait for the things to go the way they should be, not the way you want them to be.
[01:02:57] Mikenzie: hmm.so you thought
[01:02:58] Mikenzie: that kids was kind of incompatible with
[01:03:01] Mikenzie: career earlier in your
[01:03:03] Mikenzie: life. What would you say to that version of Karina today?
[01:03:08] karina: Just wait for the
[01:03:08] karina: right partner to come
[01:03:09] karina: around and then think
[01:03:12] karina: about it again.
[01:03:13] Mikenzie: Hmm. And then kind of a fun one, what's a Mexican cultural tradition around motherhood
[01:03:19] Mikenzie: or taking care of newborns that you've adopted?
[01:03:23] karina: None of it.
[01:03:25] Mikenzie: None. Okay.
[01:03:26] karina: I actually don't know.
[01:03:29] karina: I think in Mexico, people are very, very family oriented and
[01:03:33] karina: everyone comes and visits you and basically leaving your house for the first like month or two, and I. Actually didn't even allow our, um, grandparents to be in the house when Leo was born, because I thought this was such a special time for Dominic and I to bond with our baby that I just wanted to take it all in.
[01:03:57] karina: So, it's a great question, but I
[01:03:59] karina: actually don't know. Uh, I know one, one of the first
[01:04:03] karina: things that I gave Leo when we were winning him was actual lemon, because Mexican food would use a lot of lemon on absolutely everything. And I thought he will do a super sour face where, you know, you squeeze your lips and you just feel, what is this flavor about?
[01:04:23] karina: And, but to my surprise, he just put it.
[01:04:26] karina: all over his mouth and. Just wanted to have more and more and more, and then I just realized, yep, 50% of him is Mexican.
[01:04:37] Mikenzie: There we go. Proof that he's your kid.
[01:04:39] karina: Absolute real proof.
[01:04:41] Mikenzie: Didn't pick up the wrong baby at the
[01:04:43] karina: nope. I happen to have
[01:04:44] karina: the Mexican
[01:04:45] karina: baby. He
[01:04:46] karina: loves lemon and chili.
[01:04:49] Mikenzie: Well, great taste, I love lemon as well, Carina, I could go on and on. I have like a hundred more questions to ask you, but I don't wanna keep you any longer. I really appreciate the time and you sharing this story. it's so interesting 'cause we work together and this is kinda my point, I had no idea I didn't know any of this because it's kind of the Corina work face, which makes total sense.
[01:05:10] Mikenzie: Everyone does it. but I've loved
[01:05:12] Mikenzie: getting to hear more of
[01:05:14] Mikenzie: your story and it's so inspirational and excited for others to
[01:05:18] Mikenzie: hear it as well.
[01:05:19] karina: It's a pleasure to be here and thank you very much for having me. it's been a joy.
[01:05:24] Mikenzie: That's all for today's episode of Leaning My Way. If you're enjoying the show, please follow us on Apple
[01:05:29] Mikenzie: Podcast
[01:05:30] Mikenzie: or subscribe on Spotify and share it with friends and family who would also find these conversations helpful.
[01:05:37] Mikenzie: Know someone with a unique story about balancing career and motherhood. Or maybe you have that story yourself. Reach out. I'd love to hear from you. Okay, until next time, friends.