Ep. 112: Ojibwe Bear Clan / Conservation Officer - Ron Leblanc

This is the historic first time a BC Conservation Officer has spoken on a podcast.    Ron is a 26 year veteran of the Canadian Armed Forces, having served twice in Afghanistan.  Fittingly, Ron belongs to the Ojibwe Bear Clan which is known for being protectors of the people, community and the environment.   Ron uses the opportunity to provide a unique perspective on the benefits and challenges faced by BC Conservation Service.  Ron answers Silvercore Club members questions and provides a roadmap for those who wish to better understand how they can do their part to assist in the protection and conservation of our natural resources and insight into how you can become a C.O.   

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After 26 years in the army, serving
twice in Afghanistan, our guest today

brings a wealth of knowledge and
experience to his chosen profession.

As a BC conservation officer,
welcome to the Silvercore

podcast, my friend, Ron LeBlanc.

Well, this is a first, isn't it?

Ron Leblanc: It's a first and it's
been a bit of to do to get it going.

And we're here and we're doing it.

So

Travis Bader: first time in British
Columbia, that a conservation officer

has come on and talked on a podcast.

Yeah.

Ron Leblanc: So no pressure.

Travis Bader: Well, you know, it's,
You've got a really interesting

history, interesting background.

I put some queries out online through
social media, through forums of just,

you know, I didn't name who you were,
but, uh, if anybody had questions

for a CEO, and I think we had some
interesting ones that kind of came

up there, but you know, before we get
into that, I thought it would be fun.

Just for people to get to know you, get
to know you, your background, kind of

how you got into where you are, are now.

And you were in cadets as
well when you were younger

Ron Leblanc: too, weren't you?

I was a cadet, proud
cadet, you know, for sure.

And certainly led me to where I am today.

So.

Travis Bader: I think it's
done a lot for a lot of people.

Yeah.

Myself, I know it, uh, did a lot.

I was doing a podcast with
Sean Taylor, XJTF2, and he's

like, Oh, you went to Vernon?

I went to Vernon.

I don't, I know a lot of people across
Canada that have gone to the Vernon cadet

Ron Leblanc: camp.

Yeah.

I mean, it's, uh, every
time I drive by there and.

And you look at those red buildings, those
World War II structures that are still

there and you kind of pick out the one
that you maybe stayed at or, you know, had

a, had a crush on a girl there and that's
the hut that she was in or whatever.

And I remember those and, you know,
the, the big parade square and the

standing out in the sweating, sweating
on a parade and all the little where the

foundation of the discipline was built.

Yeah, I remember.

Travis Bader: First time there were
forming up on Sicily square and

then, uh, getting all your kit.

I'm like, what did I get myself into?

I'm going to be gone for a few weeks
and they're yelling and screaming at me.

And then it was six weeks after that one.

How did you get into that?

Ron Leblanc: Um, well, I,
As a kid, I played with G.

I.

Joes and, you know, wore camouflage and
hid in the bushes and, you know, you

know, watched the 80s war movies and,
you know, loved all the watch mash and

I just, I was always sort of interested
in it, but I never really thought about

joining or how that looked as a kid.

I just wasn't there.

Yeah.

Um, but as a young.

First nations kid in the big city,
kind of outside of my element.

And I started hanging with the wrong
crowd and I got into trouble, nothing

serious, but enough trouble that I
was told to do some community service.

And, uh, One of the things of
community service was c Cadet Corps.

I did not know about what a really
a Cadet Corps thing was, and so

I kind of thought it was sort of
military and I was sort of interested.

'cause you know, I was already
a general because I was playing

with my soldiers and whatnot.

And, um, so my mom, uh, had
brought me down, you know, very

willfully to take me to a cadet.

Corps, and the one that I recall as a
little kid was the, the Beatty Street

Armoury in Vancouver with the, by BC
Place with the tanks out front, and

that's the only sort of wreck, you know,
facility that I recognized as military,

and that's the only reason I chose that.

And so my mom dropped me off there,
and that was on a, I think it was a

Wednesday, and I got enrolled, and, and
I think there was some paperwork that

they had to sign to, For X amount of
community service hours that had to,

so that was a Wednesday and, and, um, I
learned that the next Friday, two days

later, that cadet corps was going to.

Uh, Chilliwack, CFB Chilliwack for
a shooting thing and this would

have been in September, I think.

And, um, the very next day on the
Thursday, we went to now the defunct

Westland Surplus and, and, um, I got some
combats and some ill fitting boots and.

What not and got kitted out and then the
next day on the Friday I was at the armory

and on a bus to Chilliwack and Slept in a
giant building and with a bunch of people.

I didn't know and it was a little
everything felt awkward and and The

next day I got to fire at 22, which is
the first firearm I ever got to fire

and then once that you know in between
I'm sure I was getting yelled at and

move here and move there and eat this
and hurry up and And then I got to

fire the FN C1, uh, on the next day.

And that was a big, huge 7.

62 rifle.

And I was, uh, you know, probably a
hundred pounds soaking wet and, um.

And it just, everything was just
a blur and I was just ecstatic.

I was soaking wet, tired, hungry, and
I was like, I'm, I'm now enjoying this.

And so the very next parade night, I guess
it would have been Wednesday or whatever.

I, I didn't even have a cadet uniform
yet, so they still had to size me.

And so you're learning drill and
getting yelled at by the sergeants.

And it was the first sort of
structure I had in my life.

And it was the first time I met,
um, some adults, male role models.

I hadn't had that before.

Some of these cadet instructors, the
adults were the real sort of first,

yeah, male role models that, and I still
keep in touch to some of them to this

day, because it really changed my path.

I was going down the wrong path and it,
and it certainly showed me a different

path that was, that was available to me.

And I learned that.

You know, if you put the
work in, you put the time in.

There's rewards at the end of it.

And I also learned about instant
discipline where I hadn't had that before.

So you got corrected immediately
and I, that's what I needed.

I needed that guidance
and that correction.

And I, I just, I liked it.

I loved it.

And, and I needed a focus.

And I remember standing there and every,
every night at the beginning of the night,

they'd inspect each troop would pet their.

Put their best cadet dressed that's
in this uniform pressed and everything

forward and the regimental sergeant major
would pick the two and he would decide

who's best dressed for that night and
they would, they would give them this

little drill cane and called it stick man.

And you're the stick man for the night.

And so you got a point of pride of
taking that cane around the night,

knowing that you had the best uniform,
boots are polished, you know, ironing

and all the lint was gone and haircut.

And it was, you were, so I tried to
get that and every week, you know, I

didn't, I wasn't even selected and you
know, the odd time I was selected to

be the guy and I didn't quite make it.

And then it just drove me
more to try harder and harder.

Eventually I became the stick man and
that was a pretty proud moment for

Travis Bader: me.

Isn't that funny how people crave
that those boundaries, those brackets,

whether you're young or you're old.

I think everybody wants to know where
their boundaries are and you know, I

learned that in just working with other
people and managing people, I'd be like, I

would want someone just to leave me alone.

Trust me, I can do this.

I know how to do things.

Right.

So I would.

I would do the same for somebody else.

And that can be misinterpreted
as somebody not caring if you.

Provide those boundaries and let
a person know when they're outside

of it, especially at a young age,
holy crow, what, what that does

for a person as they get older.

And I know the cadet system did a lot
from, for me, when I look at others

around me that were, um, who I was
hanging out with, similar to you,

they didn't end up in the same place.

And I can't say it was 100% the case.

Ron Leblanc: And just look what
happens when you don't put any

boundaries or left or right of arcs
on someone and see how that turns out.

Totally.

Travis Bader: So then you decided,
okay, army, that's for me.

I want to be.

Ron Leblanc: Well, in my world, we're
still small then and I only knew about

the cadets and I kind of knew that there
was a regimental affiliation to a reserve

unit or militia unit and the regular
force units and so I got a little bit of

exposure to those guys and every now and
then they would take a deserving cadet

on an exercise with them and A couple of
years into it, I happened to be one of

those deserving cadets and I got to go on
and exercise with the, with the army and,

and, um, that's when I realized that as
soon as I could, I'm joining the military.

And I was so eager, I
attempted to join in grade 10.

I hadn't graduated grade 10 yet, and I
just wanted out of the situation I was

in at home, I needed to get away and I
wanted to just go and join the military.

So I went to the recruiting office
and they're like, no, no, son, you

need grade 10 to graduate grade 10.

And I'm like.

I have to go back because I had
quit school and everything and

I wasn't doing well in school.

I wasn't doing, I was just focused
on getting into the military.

So then the recruiter told me, you
need to go back in minimum grade 10

and your parents got assigned for you.

So I went back to grade, re enrolled in
school because I got kicked out of school

for, you know, attendance and fighting.

And I was, you know, like
I said, down that bad path.

And then the, the recruiter told
me you need to get your grade 10.

So I went back to school and
I had to focus on a mission.

Became the top student that year.

Did you really?

I did.

I got a, they even gave me a 300 bursary.

Holy crow.

And, uh, I brought my mom with
me to the recruiter and...

I had my letter of being the top
student, my grade 10 diploma, and

I'm like, I'm joining the military.

Wow.

Right?

And so I did.

I joined the military.

And I, you know, later on in life, I
had to, I paid for it later cause I had

to get, I wanted my grade 12 and, and,
uh, you go to work and then after you

go to night school and that, you know,
I really should have just completed

my grade 12 and then joined after.

I was too eager.

Um, uh, to join and, but
I sort of paid for it.

Like it was, it sucked racing home
and shoving food down your neck

and then going to class at night.

And yeah.

Travis Bader: Yeah.

It's a bit of work.

I was lucky to go through, you
know, school system wasn't, uh,

school's not built for everybody.

Some people do really well in school.

I look at my daughter, she's
doing fantastic in school.

My son does great as well.

And for me, I ended up going to.

Yeah.

I went to three.

Ron Leblanc: Yeah.

Um, Um, I went to Templeton,
uh, Van Tech and Britannia.

Yeah.

So East Van Boy.

Yeah.

And yeah, I struggled in school.

You know, I was often the
only Brown person in the room.

And sometimes, you know, I
was, uh, I stuck up for myself.

Sure.

Travis Bader: Put it that way.

Yeah, I hear ya.

Um, well in school, I could see that
being difficult in the, in the army.

I.

Ron Leblanc: Uh, yeah, I was often the
only Brown person in the room and I

joined, when I elected to join the OCA
crisis was going on and I was back home

visiting, um, my family in Manitoba where
I'm originally from and, and we're from

a reserve called Ebb and Flow, it's a
Ghibli reserve and the OCA thing was in

full swing and, and, and, and, um, It was,
I was not popular amongst my grandma and

my uncles and aunts to join the military.

But that, for whatever reason,
it didn't bug me or deter

me, I still wanted to join.

And, cause I had grown up with
me not being afraid of who I am.

I didn't think, I would stand
up to any challenge in the

military that way as well.

So it did, I already had to have
been exposed to it, so I didn't care.

And I wasn't afraid of
it, like bring it on.

Like I'm, I'm still just, I'm not any
better than you, but I'm not any worse.

Travis Bader: So, you know, the
problem with, we spent the, uh, the

day yesterday hanging out and I got
to see what you do with, uh, for work.

And it's, uh, I tell you this
much, uh, If I were to go back

in time a little bit, I think I'd
want to be a conservation officer.

I mean, that's totally suited to somebody
with an ADHD lifestyle, who's self

motivated and who, uh, loves the outdoors.

I mean, just fantastic.

But the problem that, uh, sometimes is.

We'll talk ahead of time and there's
a lot of really good details that you

left out of those two stories that
you just told, but, um, um, maybe

it's for the best that we don't,
uh, release all of that information.

Yeah.

Um, you decided what, after 26 years,
now I, I want to get into the CO service.

Ron Leblanc: Yeah.

I mean, there's always been.

I've always been interested in outdoors
and nature and animals and critters

and, and law enforcement, you know, I've
always had, it was there, but I just

didn't know what that looked like or what
I thought maybe it was a park ranger.

I didn't know.

I just know I wanted to do that.

And I didn't really know what that
was, what agency is attached to that.

Um, and so I had gotten back from my,
I had done a little research online

and I, you know, you needed a degree
or diploma and I didn't have, I had

some of that training in the military
and we use some accreditations from,

you know, other universities gives
its equivalencies and some of the

training and courses we do and whatnot.

And so I just didn't
think I was qualified.

I didn't meet their minimum
expectations, what they're asking for.

And, and I was in a bit of a slump after
my second deployment and wasn't really

sure if I wanted to stay in the military.

And, uh, so I, I took a chance at, I
applied, I, I sent, I didn't apply.

I sent an email.

Um, To the recruiting service or
to the recruiting email, just in a,

just to see what they'd come back
with, you know, as a kind of a lot.

I had applied for DFO before that
actually, and got, I wrote the

test and, and, um, listened to
their talk and it was kind of what

I wanted to do, but not really.

It just was a little bit too specific.

I wanted more than just, I mean,
the DFO are great, but I, You

know, I kind of wanted something
a little different than that as

well, a broader spectrum of broader.

Yeah.

And so anyways, I get an, I send out
an email and I get an email back and

lo and behold, the recruiting sergeant
is a guy I served with in Afghanistan.

What are the odds?

I didn't know his name
is Mike was Mike solely.

And he was a An officer and he was in
the PsyOps platoon and I had worked

the platoon or the job I did work
closely with the PsyOps platoon.

So he knew me, knew my reputation
and I asked him, um, Hey man, like

you have a similar background to me,
you're a CO and like, how'd that go?

I know you don't have a natural
resource law enforcement

degree like they're asking for.

He goes, well, I have some education
and I have some relevant experience.

And they.

Took that as good enough And he
says all I can do is is just get

you to apply and we'll look at it.

Hmm.

So I put my package together Sent it off.

And then while I was deployed on my
second time overseas and in Afghanistan

I got an email from the recruiting
section saying that I got hired And

I'll be posted to mission and, uh,
and you have to be in the academy in

like a month and I'm halfway through
my deployment and it was heartbreaking

because I had to decline that opportunity.

I was in 2013.

Um, but the good news is they
said, well, you'll, you'll be on a

list eligibility list for a year.

And, and, uh, if, if we're still hiring
next year, if there's positions and

depending on where you're ranked.

You don't have to go through
the whole system again.

Right.

So, I came back from my deployment and
I immediately cancelled all my full time

contracts because I didn't want to be...

Have anything to hold me back.

So I was now a reservist.

Again, a part time soldier.

And waiting for the call.

And I think it was around May that Yeah,
it was, no, maybe it was later than that.

Cause I It would have
been in July or August.

That I got the, yeah.

You're going to the academy and this
academy started, I think, the first week

of September that year in Hinton, Alberta.

And so, uh, yeah, a couple, a couple of
weeks later, the recruiting sergeant,

Mike Soley, that I mentioned swung by
my house with a giant cardboard box

full of gear, uniforms and duty belts.

And, you know, you know, and
the rest of the, the good stuff

was delivered to the academy.

But then I got my initial set up.

And I had no even clue how to put
a duty belt on, or how it clips

together, or didn't know any of that.

How exciting.

Very exciting.

And I, I don't, I had the new,
all the brand new toy feel, right?

Of course.

You know, flashlights and blah blah blah.

So yeah, and then I
started my journey as a...

Conservation officer in September.

And I did my, my, uh, recruit
training and, uh, and then I,

my probation period after that.

And my first posting was Burns Lake.

Travis Bader: Well, you did
pretty good on your, uh, on

your training there, didn't you?

Didn't you, uh, come top of your class?

Ron Leblanc: I was voted valedictorian,
which, which is pretty special because

it's, it's voted by your peers.

That's pretty cool.

Um, and I had, I was just, I was
twice the age of everybody there.

I was 41 when I went through and
most people were in their early 20s.

And the academy, um, all the
classes that were, that I took, I,

I'm not saying I'm all that, but
I didn't struggle with anything.

What I struggled with was my.

The, the age gap with my peers and,
you know, they just had different

interests and motivations than I did.

It took me a really long time to get
to that point in life to, to be there.

And I was so just grateful to be there.

And I made a point of just every day
working, doing the best I could and doing,

doing as much as I could to make sure that
I'm standing on the parade at the end for.

Travis Bader: So your first deployment,
when he came out of training, you're,

you said you're in Burns Lake there?

Yeah.

What was that like?

Ron Leblanc: Well, I knew where
Burns Lake was because, uh, for a

stint in the military, I did a four
year, Recruiting Sergeant job in B.

C.

and I was in a specialized recruiting
unit at the time that was for

diversity recruiting and I specialize
in First Nations and getting First

Nations to apply to the military.

There's the representation.

And the military was quite low.

I happened to be the right color and
they really wanted me to, to do that.

And I really enjoyed that.

And it was one of the highlights of
my, my career was that four year stint.

And, and because of that, I did
a lot of road show traveling.

I mean, in the SUV packed with gear and
going to reserves and talking to the

elders and doing presentations and Burns
Lake had passed through a number of times.

So I knew where it was.

My wife didn't know where it was.

And we were at a condo in Poco and she
was established as a teacher and I was

just about to start a new job and I had,
now was only doing the reservist thing

because I didn't want to commit to any
work for obvious reasons and so we, we

elected to do a road trip north to camping
and to come up to Burns Lake to see where

we're going to be living and meet the,
The officers that I'd be working with.

And my sergeant at the time was
in Smithers an hour and a half

up the road from Burns Lake.

So we, we made a bit of a
road trip and camping trip.

And then we met my supervisor,
my future supervisor, and some of

the guys I was going to work with.

Got to see the area and, and um...

You know, next thing you know, I was
at the academy and then we're looking

at trying to buy a house when we
posted here and all that fun stuff.

Well, what's

Travis Bader: your wife
think of Burns Lake?

Ron Leblanc: Oh, it's, it's
small, it's a small town.

It is like 2000 people.

It's a rough for it's
like for game warden work.

Amazing.

Yeah.

For her, she's a French immersion teacher.

There is no French immersion
program there now, but at the

time there was, so she got a job.

Um, teaching French immersion there at one
of the, at the local elementary school.

So, I mean, all that worked and they
hired her on the spot because they really

need, you know, qualified teachers there.

And, and so we made it, we, I
mean, we had a great time there.

Um, we did our two year posting there and.

And then, um, I think it wasn't big
enough for us and, and law enforcement

in a small town has its challenges.

Travis Bader: Yeah, I was going to
ask you about that at some point here.

That's going to be, uh,

Ron Leblanc: interesting.

Yeah, and, um, it was one of the
motivating, they were going to potentially

get rid of the French Immersion Program.

So it was that for her and she really
wanted to teach the French program and,

and the town was a little too small.

Or, I just felt I was almost
trapped at home a lot of the time.

Uh, you, when you're off duty and
you go out, people know who you are.

Uh, they know you're the game warden.

And, you're never really off duty.

Uh, someone wants to talk
to you about something.

Which is fine, if they don't, you know.

But you, you just kind of want
your time, when it's your time.

You need that to recharge.

Or they would, people would, you know,
I've had people come to my house when

I'm not there, banging on the door,
demanding I give back their seized

antlers or whatever, something like that.

And it's just not, uh, a
family, uh, situation I, I want.

I can see that, yeah.

Yeah, and it just never felt
like you could truly just

relax and unwind and, you know.

Go to the restaurant and you recognize
the cook from a file that, you know.

Travis Bader: Yeah, that's got to be the
joys of small town policing like anywhere.

It's, uh, yeah, you're, you're,
you're gonna have to be walking

around with your head in a swivel.

Ron Leblanc: Yeah, and I like to go
out into the town and enjoy restaurants

and you know, all that stuff.

And I just felt I was, I was
trapped in a small town like that.

And so we kind of looked for an
alternative posting that when it came

available and when When it, uh, when
a town that we wanted maybe had come

up, we would put it, we'd put a package
together and then there's a bit of

a competition to see who gets it.

And then that's, and so we, we ended
up moving to Williams Lake and we

did three years in Williams Lake.

And then, like I said, I've
been in Smithers here for about

three, just over three years now.

And you know, when we were in Burns
Lake, um, I had made the mistake of

bringing my wife to Smithers an hour
and a half off the road on the weekend.

Yeah.

And she was upset.

Why couldn't you get us posted here?

Oh, it's beautiful here.

Yeah, it is amazing.

Travis Bader: So I've done some
hunting in the Williams Lake area,

and I can imagine that there's.

Probably a fair bit of work for
a conservation officer to do up

there, just based on my observations
and what I've seen, that could

be, um, a pretty busy area.

Ron Leblanc: It's a population 10 there,
plus the, there's all the surrounding

communities, very big deer hunting.

Uh, population there, you can,
there's moose and elk and there's

salmon, there's everything there.

It's, it's the posting that I think
offers for me, the most variety

of terrain and type of work.

It's just, it's an amazing place to work.

And, uh, because it's close to
Vancouver and some of the bigger

centers, it's a day drive.

Um, you know, uh, a person from Vancouver
could be up and hunting that evening.

So you have a big hunter base
and you have a lot of call volume

because you have a lot of people.

So you're hopping busy
in a community like that.

Travis Bader: So, you know, I
have some questions out here.

I figured it's only right that we
go through a few of these ones.

Some are a little bit interesting.

Uh, some I think are really good here.

We had one person write in and he
wanted to know, like, how do you

become a conservation officer?

How many conservation
officers are there out there?

What's the process like?

Is it pretty competitive?

Is it hard to get into?

Yeah.

What, what does that look like?

Ron Leblanc: Um, well for me, my,
the way I came to the CO service was

a little unique from everybody else.

The generic sort of common path into
the service is essentially a person

has to go to a, you know, there's
a few colleges that offer natural

resource law enforcement, VIU or
Lethbridge, maybe Fleming, some others.

And they do a a two year diploma
or a degree in natural resource law

enforcement or some sort of similar field.

And then typically, uh, you would do
a couple years as maybe a seasonal

officer somewhere, maybe a park
warden or, uh, invasive species

inspector or some something to
get some seasonal work and so,

It's very common.

You apply more than once because you
may not get through the first time.

So essentially what happens is we
hire once a year And I can speak with

a little bit of authority because I
I had just I'm just finishing up in

July I did six months as the training
sergeant and recruiting sergeant.

So and I was part of the last hiring
panel So I got a little bit of exposure

on how it works, but Essentially we
hire once a year and I think we're

hiring the first I think it opens up
September, the first week of September.

We're starting our process again
for two weeks period and go on to

the government website and you'll
see the job for the conservation

officer and the instructions there.

But basically you're submitting a
resume and then the The training

recruiting team will vet those, and
they'll pick whatever number that

is that meet the qualifications.

And there's no set number,
it's just how many people that

actually meet the qualifications,
and they vet them from there.

And then you're invited to
uh, uh, to an interview.

Okay.

Travis Bader: Well, what, what kind
of qualifications would kind of set a

person apart if they're looking at it?

Ron Leblanc: Well, uh, this is
a standard driver's license.

You need your core, you
need your firearms license.

Um, uh, you need to have the medical
and all that stuff will come later.

But, um, Your first aid certificate,
your WHMIS, and, and then some sort of

proof that you've, uh, are in school
or have done schooling or something

relevant, uh, in the education side.

Hmm.

Um, if you haven't done, like me,
a natural resource background,

but I have some other credits from
university and tied with my military

stuff, and articulating that in your
application may be enough to get

you through to that interview phase.

And that, that's the, the way I found
my way in, but typically it's, they're

in a, they are in a program specifically
to become, you know, a game warden or

a fisheries officer or, or something,
and it may be the first year or two,

maybe the same as what the biologists
are taking or like, so they're, I think

VIU has now accelerated one year program
where they tie in some other training

that you've done or other courses and
they tie into a one year specific.

Wow.

Um, so we've had, you know, We've
had that program, I think last year

was the first year they started.

But I, I can tell you from when I started
ten years ago till now, we're hiring

people before they're even graduated.

You're hungry for them.

We're hungry for them because we're
competing with the police, the military,

other law enforcement agencies, other
game warden agencies, fisheries officers.

So we're all competing for the
same sort of group of people.

And so we're hiring them quicker
and they're going to the academy

younger and they're being deployed
younger, less life experience.

Um, yeah, so basically once you're at the
phase where you're, I think the hardest

part Is getting to the interview, okay
For me, that's where I think the challenge

is, where most people get vetted out.

Once you have an interview,
now it's yours to lose.

Right.

I think.

And so there are, there may be some
homework assigned to you that you may have

to present in front of the hiring panel.

There may be some
written exams done there.

There'll probably be some role plays, some
direct questions, and it's all graded on

by the panel, and then you're, you get a
percentage assigned to you, and then once.

All the applicants are through.

We kind of pick, well not pick, I guess
it's based on their percentages and

high, high, how many positions we have.

We take X amount that are through,
I mean at the top, whatever

percent, and offer them a job.

And, and then there's the medical and
psychology, psych test, and there's

also, uh, Like, uh, not a lie detector
test, but a digital voice stress

thing and sort of background checks.

A form of a polygraph?

Yeah, like a polygraph, a back,
you know, it's the same as what

a police agency would have.

It's.

Travis Bader: Is the psych assessment
one of those multiple choice, hundreds of

Ron Leblanc: questions, those bubbles?

I remember it was something like 900
questions or something like that.

I

Travis Bader: remember when I was
18 years old and I got hired by

an armored car company and that
was part of the hiring process.

And they do a psychological profile
and I go through there and I'm like,

I want to make sure I do really good.

Remember every question, every answer.

And I got to remember,
uh, variations on it.

Cause you, yeah, you're asked the
same thing over and over again.

In different ways.

Yeah.

In different ways.

And so I'm like, I got
to remember all of this.

So I go through there, I submit
my psych exam, it comes back.

It says, um, you failed.

It's too black and white.

They're looking, they're looking for
a level of, of variance inside here.

Yeah.

And I'm like, no, no, no.

I would, I answered this thing perfectly.

So he says, well, do it again.

So they do it again.

And it goes through and.

It says two black and white again, right?

It's either, you don't
have that middle ground.

Anyways, um, they ended up
hiring me, despite that.

They said, okay, fair enough,
maybe you're just a black and

white sort of personality.

They,

Ron Leblanc: uh, when I wrote mine,
it was in Vancouver, and the lady that

was administering it said, after it was
all done, you're like, any questions?

I'm like, yeah, I
actually have a question.

One of the questions asked the same
sort of thing, a couple different

ways, and it was, does your Father
like flowers or something like that.

And I said, I can't answer that question.

And she's like, well, it's
like it was a yes or no.

True or false thing.

And I'm like, I don't, I've
never, I don't know my father.

I've never met him.

So how do I know what
kind of flowers he's like?

I can't.

She'll just put one.

I said, I can't.

Well, I'm answering it falsely then.

So, so she didn't know quite what to say.

She's like, well, put this one down.

Yeah, exactly.

Travis Bader: That's funny.

And then what sort of attributes
would a person have that, uh, would

kind of set them apart in the,
let's say the interview phase?

Ron Leblanc: Um, common sense,
accountability, uh, the ability

to triage, uh, flexibility.

And those are all really important traits.

And if, I think if you're missing any of
those, you're not going to do so well.

I don't think you won't, you'll struggle.

Well,

Travis Bader: watching you yesterday
and just knowing you, people

skills have to be pretty high on
the, on the list there as well.

Cause you're dealing with
all different walks of life.

Um, yeah.

What, what would the average day
look like for a conservation officer?

Ron Leblanc: Well,
there is no average day.

And that's, that's, that's the appeal.

Yes, and you know, I tried to, you
tried to put a plan together to,

uh, maybe do a patrol of a certain
river or, uh, patrol a certain area.

And, uh, those quickly get sidelined by a
call of another nature, maybe you have to

assist in a search and rescue, or maybe
your supervisor doesn't want you in the

office for some other reason, or maybe
there's a search warrant they need a hand

on, or it's just, you just kind of have
to be prepared for everything, and, and

then having the ability to, to realize
what's important, what it In your list

of things that's happening right now.

What is the priority priority?

Is it a public safety
thing to do with a bear?

Is it a poaching thing in progress?

Is it the car crash that
you've just suddenly come upon

and there's people injured?

Is it the Financing lunch claim
thing that your sergeant's

been bugging you about maybe?

Can wait another day.

You have a court case, maybe
you have to prepare for that.

Like, there's just so many aspects of
the job that you can't be prepared.

You have to be prepared for everything.

Um, and some days it actually works out.

And one of the, you know, I'm
going, I'm getting on the jet boat

and we're going to check anglers.

And the sooner you get out of
cell phone service, the better.

Travis Bader: Then the
plane can stay on track.

Yeah.

Ron Leblanc: Yeah.

And, and, uh, I think to me that's
one of the appealing parts of the

job is the diversity in the job.

And, and of course it also
depends on where you're posted.

And because, you know, the lower lane
man COs, um, may be dealing with some

different things than we're dealing with.

And their seasons are going to
be different than our seasons.

They're not going to be doing caribou
closure patrols in the Lower Mainland.

And that's a, you know,
a thing we do here.

Great.

They're not checking moose
hunters in, in Victoria.

Travis Bader: Right, right.

So.

Oh man, you guys got
bears out here right now.

Yeah, it's busy.

Going by the oatfield there,
I think, what did we count?

Seven or eight bears there.

Yeah, just lots of bears.

You're probably getting
a ton of calls on those

Ron Leblanc: right now.

Yeah, it's, it is that year that I have
never had a year like this with bears.

And it's just, it's a triaging of
what's, what's important and what needs

to be actioned and what can be managed.

Travis Bader: So one question
that came up was about the grizzly

bear, cause there's a moratorium
on grizzly bear hunting in BC.

Have you noticed or heard from other
conservation officers that there's

increased pressure with grizzly bears?

I know some, I know.

Uh, we hear things from, uh, Teltan and,
and other places, anecdotal stories.

Have you heard anything on that?

Ron Leblanc: Our call volume with grizzly
bears, I don't think really has increased.

However, I mean, talking from hunters
that are doing flying hunts and some of

the remote hunting camps are reporting
more encounters with grizzly bears.

Yes.

Travis Bader: So let me just
pull up a couple of others here.

Um.

This one says, how do conservation
officers view their position?

Is it more community police role or
focus on enforcement through ticketing?

What's, uh, what's the, um, the

Ron Leblanc: balance?

Well, I think, And a lot of these towns
were posted in our smaller towns, like

Smithers is only 5, 000 people or so.

And the locals refer to us
as our conservation officer,

not the conservation officer.

Oh, that's cool.

So that's, that's an, so you're
integrated into the community.

My wife's a teacher.

They know her husband is a game warden.

Um, and.

You have to, I think, have to be
part of your job is vol volunteering.

You know, I help out with some other
things around town and, and just

integrating into the community and
showing that you're part of it, even

though you may not have been born here
or anything like that, that you're really

trying to fit in and just be available.

And not that you treat the
locals any different from someone

that's passing through, but you
know, you still gotta have a.

a firm hand when you need to with
the locals, just like anybody else.

And there's no special treatment,
but at the same time, realizing you

still got to live in that community.

It's a, it's a tough balance.

Travis Bader: Well, yeah.

And you've got a difficult
balance here too.

Cause your, your background
Ojibwe, uh, First Nations community

here in the Smithers area.

How is, how does that work?

How do you, how do you balance that?

Cause there's, there was a
number of questions that came up

about First Nations hunting and
what the enforcement look like.

And it's, that's such a complex question.

Cause there's so many different,
um, bands throughout, um.

Through British Columbia.

Yeah.

That, uh, uh, but they all
get that, that blanket First

Nations, um, uh, label put on

Ron Leblanc: them.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And, and again, I'm a unique,
there's a couple First

Nations cos in our outfit and.

At times I think I get ridden a little
harder by the First Nations because I'm

First Nations and in an enforcement role.

And they look, sometimes they look at
me as a traitor, hurting my own people.

And on the other side, they're
really happy and proud to see me

in the job I am as First Nations.

And so I get a bit of both.

Um, but I also can relate to a lot of the
encounters we have with First Nations.

I've been there, I get it.

I grew up in that environment.

I understand.

And I know, and I'm well versed in what
the title rights are and traditional

territories and how it all, the
enforcement rules on how that works.

And when I'm trying to explain that to
some of the First Nations, they buy into

it a little bit more because I'm First
Nations and they can see it from my end.

So I'm able to step with one foot on
either end of the fence in that world.

Hmm.

And.

You know how we have a little, in B.

C.

we have a little different enforcement,
uh, way of doing business with, compared

to say, Alberta or Saskatchewan, and we're
very much Uh, First Nations can harvest

in their traditional territory and, and
kind of, if you are a status from say

Saskatoon or something, and you're here
out of season and you just shoot a moose

and you still have a status card, well,
we treat you no different than anybody

else shooting a moose out of season.

Mm.

Yeah.

You have to be, uh, from that
First Nation in that traditional

territory, um, so that, that, there's
a little difference there with BC.

We don't have all the big
treaties like the Prairies do.

We have a small part of
Treaty 8 in the north.

Yep.

Um, but other than that, it, we
don't in the rest of the province.

Uniquely, we do have memorandums of
understanding with some of the bans.

Um, so in this go, we're getting, you
know, have Implemented with cooperation

from us, and we've drafted an enforceable
memorandum of, of, uh, for instance, cow,

there's, you can't shoot a cow moose.

Um, and they'll have a draw for bull
moose on their band in their traditional

territory, and they'll share the list
with us of who in their band is allowed to

harvest a bull moose within these dates.

Anybody outside of that.

We're free to prosecute
just like anybody else.

Travis Bader: Holy crow.

And this is something they
voluntarily came up with?

Ron Leblanc: In conjunction with us, yeah.

And there's also in Williams Lake
area and a few other places around

the province, we have a memorandum.

Like Williams Lake ban, you can't
shoot a cow moose out of season.

And so depending on the band, it
depends on how, um, what sort of

restrictions they want to place.

Um, but we have a First Nations
cell in our agency, and they

sort of spearhead that effort.

Uh, we do guardian training to help
some of the local First Nations help,

uh, with being our eyes and ears,
and maybe if they're first on scene

collecting, preserving the scene, or
maybe asking some of the questions

that we need to be asked, or...

So we have, uh...

I think we're not there yet, but
we still need to develop that

relationship, and it's getting better.

It's certainly better than when I joined,
and it can, it can only get better.

Travis Bader: No kidding.

Well, it's nice when everyone kind
of recognizes the need to be able to

protect the resources that we have.

Yeah,

Ron Leblanc: I mean, we
have to work together.

There's no way around it.

We're not going to get anywhere if
we're divided and we're stronger

together and that's, I think,
how we need to move forward.

Travis Bader: Another question that
came up was what are some of the most

typical things that you find as a
conservation officer both on the fishing

side as well as on the hunting side?

What are the common infractions
that people make either

knowingly or unknowingly?

Ron Leblanc: Okay.

Well, fishing, I mean, we're in the
Skeena and we have, you know, the Buckley

and the Maurice and, and the Kispiox.

And these are some of the, the
most, uh, well producing salmon and

steelhead fishing rivers and anywhere.

It's amazing.

People could fly from all over
the world to, uh, to fish here

and the locals enjoy it too.

Um, and any stream in BC.

Or river, you cannot have a barbed hook.

Mm-hmm.

. And that's one of the most,
uh, common violations.

Um, the other parts of that is people just
not doing their, their homework before

getting on a piece of piece of river.

And they may not understand the
regulations on that particular

piece of water and, and just.

Thinking it's the same as a lake and
maybe not realize that you can't keep

a fish under 30 centimeters or more
than, say, two over 50 centimeters.

Or maybe there's no retention
of a particular species.

So those are sort of the
common ones that we see.

And it can get, it can be complicated when
you're fishing for salmon in fresh water

because you're referring to DFO's website
of what you can retain and where, and then

you got to overlay the BC regulations on
top of that, and I get it's confusing.

And if, I mean for us it's confusing,
there's, we don't write those

regulations, we have maybe a little input.

And then whatever gets pumped out in
the end, we got to interpret that.

Right.

And we hope the public
interprets that too.

So, I know for me personally,
because there's, there's a lot to

remember, I don't have a great memory.

I have to, every time I get on a new
piece of water or even an old piece of

water, I refresh my memory, go look at
the regulations so I know what I'm talking

about, I know what I'm looking for.

And it, it can all fold
into one if you don't.

Really focus on, um, what
particular body of water you're on.

And so to expect the public
to do that, too, you gotta

have kid gloves on at times.

And, you know, there's something to be
said for someone that doesn't do any due

diligence or homework and just goes out.

So, you know, there's a time and place,
and then there's, you know, maybe

someone that's a new Canadian that's
trying to integrate and starting, they

got a license, and they just maybe not.

Understanding how it all works and that's
where you got to have that discretion.

Travis Bader: What about
on the hunting side?

What are some of the more
common things you see?

Ron Leblanc: Uh, hunting out of
your MU when you enter draws, like

there's that game, there's, you know,
a loaded firearm in your vehicle.

It's a safety consideration.

Yeah.

You know, consuming alcohol while you're
operating a vehicle or operating a firearm

is a, another one or impairment, you know,
through marijuana or other substances.

Those, some more, those are more of the
serious ones, uh, you know, uh, evidence

of sex attached, or maybe the transport
regulations on when you're bringing an

animal to and from, um, you know, maybe
not having evidence of sex attached, or

a chunk of hide, or maybe they didn't
take out all the meat, or maybe they've

separated it, and someone, they've
sent someone home with half the meat,

and they didn't give them the proper
documentation to take, so if they do

go through a game check, and they got
half a moose with them, and they can't

explain it, things can get hairy, right?

Yes.

Yes.

Yes.

So there, you know, just some, those are
some of the more common ones and, um, but,

you know, a lot of that can be resolved by
looking at the regulations and if you're

having trouble understanding them, which
I get, again, because it can be confusing,

is contacting us through the website.

You can email and that Bridget You
want to talk to CO and Smithers area

or whatever and that just gets down to
us and we phone numbers provide we'll

call we'll try to call them back and
try to give some guidance and maybe

answer some questions and I would much
rather prefer that than having to deal

with you in an enforcement role because
You had messed up somewhere and now

there's some You know, and you could
be serious, you could be just a ticket,

Travis Bader: you know.

I'm surprised at how many people don't
realize that they can just contact

the CEO and ask their questions.

I mean, what a valuable resource it is.

And we've, we've used it on a
number of occasions in the past.

Like, you know, there's some areas
that it can be a little bit tricky

and it's, uh, it can be interpreted
maybe in a few different ways.

So you want to know the way
that it's being interpreted

from a, from a legal standpoint.

Yeah.

And I.

If I can get that in writing, even
better, because if I run into somebody

else, whether it's a CO or, um, anyone
else in an enforcement capacity, and

they're, if, if it's confusing for
me, it might be confusing for them.

So having that, that little piece of
document that you've done your due

diligence and it provides clear outlines.

Ron Leblanc: Yeah.

And, you know, at the same time, you're
talking to somebody that's coming up and

you've provided them some information.

They're very helpful.

They're really, um.

Glad that you talked to them
and their help, you know, and

so next thing, you know, they're
phoning in with a tip for you.

Mm hmm.

And so you've just gained, you know,
an extra set of eyes out there.

Mm hmm.

There's only 148 of us and in
my region, there's four of us

to patrol 177 square kilometers.

It's the size of Greece.

Mm hmm.

And an extra set of eyes goes a long way.

Well, that's

Travis Bader: one of the questions
was, what can we do to help?

It was the, the question, what,
what can hunters and anglers

out there do to help the COs?

Because you always hear people griping
when they see someone doing something

that's offside and that's frustrating
because you're doing, you're playing by

the rules, you're doing things right.

And you look to your side to see someone
doing it offside, what can they do?

Ron Leblanc: Yeah.

I mean, just collecting, first off,
don't intervene with directly with the

person cause that could lead to some,
you know, get yourself in trouble.

Yeah.

People can be.

You never know what's going to happen,
but, you know, understanding that you have

understanding what the regulations are.

And if you know that there's, there,
there, there's something that's not

right there, or maybe we should know
about it, you know, a license plate,

a location, direction of travel,
phone right away, if you can, you

know, finding out the next day.

After the person is
long gone doesn't help.

And you know, if obviously you
if you're in cell phone service

and you call the wrap line And
it's a violation in progress.

We're going to try to attend a violation
of progress If we're able to go we're

going to go Um, but, you know, those
details, he's, you know, what kind of

truck it is with the license plate, it's
headed this way, he's wearing this, this

is what I observed, all that's going
to become very helpful for us, um, if

we can, if we're able to catch up with
the person and have a chat with them.

Have

Travis Bader: you been able to use third
party video or photos provided by the

public to, um, to actually do enforcement?

For sure, yeah.

Ron Leblanc: Yeah.

And there's other, other, um, Technology
that we're, you know, if we're able

to use like Just like any other
police agency, we can, we can get that

information or video footage or whatever.

But honestly, the best information we
get is the one that's closest time to the

violation and from first hand account.

And then we may be asking you to
provide a statement to help us with

our case, should it go, uh, Uh, in an
enforcement role or enforcement action.

Travis Bader: That was one of the
interesting things that, uh, appeals to me

if I were to be a CO is the fact that if
you're building a case, you see that case

all the way through from start to finish.

Ron Leblanc: Yeah.

That's one of the cool things about
our job is as a field officer.

Uh, you're, you're starting the file and
you're ending the file, and that includes

gathering the evidence, taking statements,
maybe doing firearms, sending it off for

firearms forensics or DNA, photographs,
logging the evidence, doing your report to

Crown, talking with Crown, going to court,
submitting evidence, Doing, uh, working

with your, your Crown adjudicator, your
Crown lawyer, sentencing, and follow up.

And then, maybe even, uh,
license action on the individual.

So, forfeiture of items, all of that.

I mean, you're, you're at start to finish.

Where we don't have, we have a
major investigations, uh, general

investigations unit in our outfit
that handles some bigger, sort of,

uh, Uh, big files, but for the average
CO, you're, you are the handler

for that file from start to finish.

You don't have any, anybody to hand
it off to, like you kind of, you do

it all and it's really cool because I
was talking to somebody about, um, a

moose that was, uh, shot and left and,
uh, it was in my berms like days and.

It was shot on private property
and the person that reported

it got a plate and a direction.

And when he was challenged
by the homeowner, he just

left the animal and took off.

So shot and left moves is, you know,
it's a, it's a fairly big deal, but

you know, there's some clues there.

There, you got a license plate.

You can get a person, you know, maybe
some DNA collection, maybe a rifle

casing, um, maybe DNA if he had maybe.

You can do other things and it's basically
a murder investigation except the victims

and moose And they're no different and
you're handling it from start to finish.

You're not handing it off to the um,
the suicide or the The, the group of

the officers that handles Homicides.

Homicides.

Yeah, yeah.

You are it from A to B, A to C

Travis Bader: and.

See, that'd be pretty cool.

That's uh, because the success or failure
of that entire thing will depend on

you and there's going to be a higher
motivation for you to make sure that

your, your dot and I is crossing T's.

Ron Leblanc: It's a sense of pride in
your file to get things done right.

And.

Yeah.

And, uh, you know, there's
a lot to learn in there.

It takes you.

You don't learn that off the bat.

You take some experience and some,
you know, doing things right and

wrong to figure it out and some
guidance from more experienced people.

And, uh, but it's rewarding at the
end when, you know, you've got a file

that it needs, needs some outcome and

Travis Bader: So you have a, let's say,
shot and left animal, um, you go there,

get, do all the forensic work, you pull
out bullets, you look for casings, DNA,

all, all the, all the CSI type stuff,
um, what happens to the meat after?

Ron Leblanc: Well, we do keep a chunk
of meat for DNA and whatnot, but mostly,

if we are able to, we'll, we'll, um,
we'll give the meat to the local First

Nations, or we'll have, we have a
meat list for, for others that want,

would like to be on it, and, you know,
we'll often, Put down animals on the

side of the highway that are injured.

We try not to waste that.

If we seize fish, lots of people,
you know, it's, you know, you seize

a fish and you're like, Oh, you're
going to be eating that tonight.

You know, there's, it's evidence
and it's all documented.

It's, I don't know where these stories
come from, but there's so much oversight.

From supervision, layers of supervision
that you, it's impossible to do that.

And you have, you're, you're
giving people, you know, here's a

fish and you're documenting that.

Here's a paper to sign.

I got to put it in my notebook.

You may have to take photos.

There's so many layers
that there's impossible.

Um, but yeah, we, that meat
gets, it does not get wasted.

Travis Bader: I know one of the
questions that came up, there

is a, have you ever heard of a
website called Fishing with Rod?

No.

Okay.

There's a, I guess the guy's name
is Rod and he's got a, and he

broke this, uh, story or someone
through his website did it.

There's a bunch of fish that were
just dumped on the, uh, in the side

of the bushes and kind of going bad.

And I guess the, uh, the speculation
was that somebody was catching them.

Or some people were catching them and
they're selling them and when they

got too bad to sell, they just kind
of dumped them all over the side.

What, what does COs do in
a, in a situation like that?

What can be done?

Ron Leblanc: Well, I mean, if
it's an area where it's causing an

attractant for dangerous wildlife
or wolves and bears and coyotes and

things like that, that's an issue and
that's something we can deal with.

There's more responsible ways to.

Um, and, you know, there's, there's,
You could take it to the dump.

Sure.

A lot of the dumps are free out here.

I mean, that's a pretty viable option.

There's, there's other places that
it can be brought that, you know,

may not attract the attention from
us or, or bring in wildlife, which

could, you know, be, be harmful.

Travis Bader: So one question we
had was, uh, what's a correct way

to respond if you're approached by a
conservation officer and you're out

hunting or you're out fishing, what's a,
what's the best thing a person can do?

Ron Leblanc: Well, it depends on, you
know, there's lots of depends, like, so

it could be in a vehicle or in a quad
or walking or whatever, but basically

our job is to just ensure that the
compliance part of it is being met and

the interaction is safe for you and me.

So if you have a firearm with you and
you're out, On foot, let's say, you

know, unloading the firearm is, I'm
going to ask you to unload it just

cause not having a loaded firearm while
we're face to face is important for me.

It's beneficial.

Yes.

Um, uh, in a vehicle, you know, just
being respectful and not making any

sudden movements towards your gun.

You know, I may ask you if I can inspect
your gun to make sure it's unloaded.

Cause for me, unloading, having a, dealing
with the firearm first is my priority.

After that, we can deal with.

everything else.

But, um, you know, the conservation
officer should be the one

introducing him or herself as,
hey, I'm a conservation officer.

I'm just doing whatever
check they're doing.

A little bit of intro, maybe it
might be a bit of small talk.

Have you seen any game?

Anybody else out?

And then, you know, just being open
and honest about what's going on and

what you're doing and why they're,
why they're there to inspect your.

So your, your line or your
firearm or whatever you're doing.

Travis Bader: That was one of the
interesting ones because conservation

officers have, um, wide responsibilities.

Very often the calls that they're
going to are a person with a firearm

calls, not necessarily a malicious
bad guy type firearm call, but.

I mean, you're, you're trained on several
different platforms of firearms, you're

encountering firearms on a regular basis.

Um, you have a very wide platform
of, um, uh, discretionary power.

And in fact, some of them will
exceed what a police officer has.

And people are saying, Oh, you
can't come into my vehicle.

You can't search my vehicle.

You need a warrant.

Well, not from a conservation
officer perspective.

Ron Leblanc: Yeah, that's true.

It, we have such a wide berth
of responsibilities and to

understand and know all that.

Is you gotta, it takes some time
to be proficient in all that, so.

Hmm.

But yes, uh, A A C E O will inspect more
firearms in one season than a typical R

C M P member will do in his whole career.

Mm.

His or her whole career.

Mm.

You know, dozens and dozens and dozens,
and sometimes dozens and dozens a

day depending on how busy you are.

Um, But yeah, I mean, we, and because
of the nature of our work, and we're

mostly in the bush a couple hours
from nowhere, Um, we are packed

full of different authorities.

Um, so a lot of people will
challenge us on, you can't do

that, you're a game warden.

So, you know, for instance, uh, I
was on the gang ranch checking deer

hunters, and I asked to, I did a stop
on a fellow and I wanted to check

his rifle before we got into the
hunting of the deer check and whatnot.

And he said, well, you
can't touch that firearm.

It's a federal thing and
you're just provincial.

So, yeah, there's a whole, there's a
whole bunch of things in there that I

think you watch too many episodes of
Matlock and, but, uh, Coss are given

their authority under the Environmental
Management Act, uh, and you're

granted a conservation under there.

But on addition to that, uh, the province
of BC is, Has, uh, appointed us special

provincial constables in the province
of BC with unrestricted, uh, powers

to enforce all laws and acts in BC.

So, we have the same authorities as a
Mountian BC, as a provincial constable.

So, we could write you a texting
while driving, or a speeding ticket,

or, and it has happened, but it's
not really what we're there for.

But we have the authority to deal.

With anything in the province on top
of because we're a peace officer or

provincial constable criminal code and
all that all we can do all of that stuff.

We're also appointed federal fisheries
officers, uh, same as DFO to deal

with all the federal fishery stuff.

We're appointed Canadian
Wildlife Officers.

We have dual appointments
in the Yukon and Alberta.

So we're considered Game Wardens
in those two territories as well.

So we're packed full of authorities.

And we do have, uh, some different
a Authorities and the police because

of the Wildlife Act to search
without warrant vehicles, boats,

any other conveyance or a camp.

And, um, I'll ask you if I can go into
your vehicle, if you've been hunting

or fishing or something, I want to
look at it in there as a courtesy

and you may tell me no, or you need
a warrant and I'm just, I want to

see where you're going to go with it.

But I, I really don't need your
permission, but I often will ask

because it's the polite thing to do.

Travis Bader: Yeah, that's one thing,
you know, dealing with, dealing

with anyone really, be respectful.

Yeah, for sure.

That, that can change the outcome because
you have such discretionary power, powers

from giving a warning to giving a fine, to
seizing equipment, to going to jail, to,

and sometimes people can just be having
a bad day and they can walk out with a

warning and sometimes you're having a bad
day and they just make their day worse.

Ron Leblanc: Yeah.

I mean, you know, you.

You can't talk yourself out of
being arrested, but you can talk

yourself into being arrested.

I like that.

Yeah.

And, you know, we have police, we
have the cages in our trucks, like

the, we call it the prisoner cage.

We have those in our trucks for a reason.

We have handcuffs for a reason.

It's not often that
we're arresting people.

Um, but if we're in the backcountry
and, you know, we, um, we come across

something, because we're, Uh, in the
backcountry, we, we may get people

that are trying to avoid the CI city
centers and using the backcountry.

Mm.

And if we run your name through our
dispatch and maybe a warrant for

your arrest, or there may be some
other thing that is going on and

you know, you get arrested and you
get brought to the police station.

And in the Wildlife Act, there,
there's provisions for that in the

Fisheries Act, and we very rarely
arrest people for a barbed hook.

That does not happen,
although it's possible.

It just, it doesn't work like that.

I mean, that's not what we do, but,
um, you know, there's some instances

where for sure, um, under the Wildlife
Act that we will put handcuffs on

you and seize your truck and your
boat and all that other stuff.

And I mean, really, it's got to be a,
something serious enough to do that.

But for the most part, depending on the
interaction or what the nature of what

has happened, it may result in a warning,
may result in a couple of tickets.

It may result having to go to
court and let a judge decide.

Travis Bader: So, I did a float hunt
with a couple of friends on a older

commercial white water raft that I
purchased in my, my twenties because

I almost drowned on the goofy little
World War II inflatable that I was using

before that, that I bought at a gun show.

And, uh, another buddy had a rowing
frame for it and took it down the Fraser

River for about a hundred kilometres
and we're just looking at the maps and.

One area says whirlpools, another area
says rapids, and we had, we didn't really

do much of a recce hunt on it and it
was, uh, try to get some local knowledge

to see if it, what it would look like.

But what I really thought would have
been beneficial is if I could have

taken a drone and flown sections where
it's going to look a little trickier

and just make sure it was safe to go.

But I said, no, not bringing
a drone on this hunt.

Was that the right call?

That's

Ron Leblanc: a very good call.

Okay.

That could have been a bad day for you.

Yeah.

So, and there's using drone while you're
hunting, there is no ticket for that.

You just go right to court.

If you have a drone with you on a hunt
speed hunting expedition, that is a

ticket or court, depending on, and
you could, you could lose that drone.

I'd probably seize it from
you until we figure it out.

Um, the, the, the fair chase
part of that with the drone.

Uh, it's a, it's a new thing.

The drones, it's so accessible now.

And everybody seems to have one and
you want to bring your kids with

you on a hunt and they want to bring
their drone, leave the drone at home.

Travis Bader: What about ID, people
needing ID with their fishing license,

ID with their, with their tags?

Is that something you find
a lot of people gap on?

Ron Leblanc: Yeah.

I mean, I think it's been the last five
years where that's been a requirement,

um, as part of the, the new updated system
for fish and wildlife ID, the FID system.

And, uh, as you know, if you've
encountered a CO in the last couple

years, he, he or she would have asked
you for ID and they have, we have an

app on our phone that we can use in and
out of cell phone service that brings

out some basic data about what your
residency is, what kind of tags you

have, what your draw is, et cetera.

And eventually the, the goal is to migrate
the phishing license into that as well.

I'm not sure how they're going to
figure out with the documenting

Chinook and Steelhead with
writing it on the paper, but.

Right.

So I don't know how that's going to work,
but in the meantime, um, you produce

your ID and we can pull up all your data.

Phishing as well, no different.

It's, it's an authorization.

You have to have your ID for phishing.

And, um.

It's to, it's to prepare to go to
that paperless side, but either way,

it's, it's a regulated activity.

You need a piece of ID with
you to prove who you are.

Um, in the past, you know, it's just
too easy to go print off your fishing

license and borrow your friends.

Right.

So yeah, the residency game as well.

And it can be quite pricey to buy a
non resident license and if you're

from Ontario and your brother
has a house here, it's too easy.

Travis Bader: Yeah, I could see that.

Let's see what other questions we have.

One person was asking about, uh,
Métis and there's a, he says, it's

their understanding that Métis
have federal migratory bird rights,

but not provincial hunting rights.

Is that correct?

Ron Leblanc: No, not in, not in BC.

The Métis, um, there's no recognition or
special privilege for hunting for that.

Travis Bader: So make sure that they
have all of their correct licenses.

Yeah.

Um,

it's an interesting one.

I don't even know if it's something
that you can comment on, but, uh, how

can hunters provide more support on a
political level to conservation officers?

Oh, wow.

Ron Leblanc: That's a one for off topic,
offline, but, uh, it's a good question.

And.

Um, you know, we're what I can say is, you
know, we're our numbers are less than 150.

And that those haven't increased in
a while, and our, our workload has

increased our authorities of what we're
enforcing different more mandates,

more hunting population, cities are
growing, the call volumes growing.

And as a field officer, and I
can speak for my fellow field

officers, we're, you know, it's
busy and I think we need some help.

Travis Bader: Okay.

Enough said.

What are some of the most interesting
files that either you or your

colleagues have had to deal with?

Oh, wow.

Ron Leblanc: Um,

Some of them are still ongoing, so I
can't speak to them because they're

still before the courts, but, um, I've
been, I think some of the, the sort of

funny ones are like the problem wildlife
ones where you're interacting with, with

critters and it's kind of the moments
you hope nobody's watching sort of thing.

Yeah.

And, uh, geez, I had one where
I'm just remembering this.

So I was in Burns Lake and.

And you're quite close with the RCMP
members because you're often backing

each other up and, and so you have each
other's cell phone numbers and whatnot.

So I get a call.

At like 2.

30, 3 in the morning from one of the
Mounties on duty in Burns Lake and he,

uh, I could tell in his voice that he's
amped up and he said, Ron, there's a

grizzly bear, uh, trying to break into
this lady's house and we're on our way.

I'm like, okay, I'm getting dressed.

And it was an address kind of halfway
to, Between me and where they were

so Right on the highway is highway
16 so I I raced down there and I

pull into the The, the yard and the
Mounties are waving their arms at me.

Oh, no, no, it's okay, sort of, sort of,
just, we can step it down a little bit.

Okay, I jump out of the truck
and I'm like, what's going on?

It's like, oh, it's not,
it's not a grizzly bear.

It's, she said she saw a grizzly
bear the other day and her old in

Iraq and assumed, but it's not.

It's a, it's a.

It's a young calf, Moose.

This is like, last, early June,
like first or second day of June.

And Mama's on the other side of the
fence, and Baby's on this side, and

Mama's freaking out because Baby can't
figure out how to get through the fence.

And so...

I'm like, okay, well, all we got to do
is take the calf and put her on the other

side of the fence and problem solved.

Sounds

Travis Bader: easy.

Yes, it does.

Ron Leblanc: So I walk up to the, to
the two Mounties and I'm like, your

job is to keep her from stomping me.

I'm not afraid of the Taliban.

I'm not afraid of Al Qaeda.

You know what I'm afraid of?

Cow moose.

Cause they're dangerous.

Oh yeah.

So, uh.

I go over to this little guy
and he's a couple days old.

It's just tiny.

It's all wobbly.

And, and I give it a little poke
with my foot to try to get the

maybe shoe out fence, fenced area,
give it a poke, give it a poke.

And it doesn't move.

Third, third time I give it a poke,
it stands up on all fours and lets

out this little moose calf and puts
its heads down and charges towards me.

It head butts me right in the.

Yeah.

So I get bent over, I fall, I'm kind
of bent over and then all I feel is,

it's hoofing me on my body armor.

And I look over at the two cops and
they're pointing and laughing, ahhhhh.

As the little guy runs off into the
corner of the yard and I'm bent over

and I say, look, I just need a minute.

I just mean, he got me.

He really got me.

And so they just are
laughing their guts out.

The homeowner is standing on her,
on the porch and kind of like,

what, what is going on here?

So I'm the expert, right?

I show up and I'm, I'm on a commission.

I need a few minutes.

So, I can hear Mama on the other side
of the fence still, and their cops are

trying to get themselves together, and
so I'm like, okay, I gotta go and find

this guy and get you out of here now.

So, I walk over, I get myself,
and I kind of start walking.

Like barbecue grate kind
of thing on the ground.

And I pick it up and I put it
over my bits, a little bit of

protection now, cause he's dangerous.

Hit me once, right?

Yeah.

So, uh, I start walking over towards
him and I get close to him and I'm

sort of gesturing him with this
fence to try to get him to run and.

He gets it.

He starts running as gangly as he can
towards the front fence, which is perfect.

He's going he's going I'm watching and
and there's two police cars there their

headlights on Sort of right where he's
running and he's running for them.

He's running for them.

And then I hear that bang Oh, come on.

It hits his head on the bull bar, the
police car, ding, and it falls over and

it's shaking and its legs are vibrating.

And then I hear the Homer,
Oh my God, Oh my God.

And I'm like, Oh crap.

So I run over.

And I pick this little
guy up and he's out.

He knocked himself out.

I pick him up and this is my chance
to grab him and take him out of the...

So I take him and I run him out to
the gate quickly before Mama comes.

And I put him down and I run
back in and close the gate.

And I'm still hurting
from my previous injury.

And I'm watching the little guy and...

And he's starting to come to and
he's, mama comes around and she's

standing basically over top of
him and takes a couple minutes and

baby stands up and shakes his head
and they run off into the woods.

So, yeah, and then I get home
at like, probably like four

in the morning or something.

Get back in the bed.

And my wife's like, how'd it go?

I'm like, I don't want to talk.

Travis Bader: Uh, if only there was
a camera on that at the time, eh?

Ron Leblanc: Yeah.

Like, you know, there's, there
was witnesses on that one and,

but you know, things like that.

That's

Travis Bader: funny.

Um, here's a question
that people, uh, does, uh.

It says, what deterrence of
conservation officers see as

effective against illegal bear and
unlicensed harvesting of wildlife.

Not really the most well put
together sentence, but, uh,

um, and is that a big thing?

I mean, we, we always hear about
illegal bear harvest and, uh.

Is that.

Ron Leblanc: Yeah, it's not
as common as it used to.

I mean, when the grizzly bear hunt was on,
you know, we probably saw more of that,

but it's illegal to bait bears, uh, in BC.

Um, you know, so it could create them, it
could create us, people will bait deer,

and then the bear also like the food that
the deer are eating, corn or whatever.

So, I mean, there's, there's that,
but, um, it's not a common, at

least up here, it's not a common.

I mean, so many barriers.

I mean, you don't have to drive
very far to bump into one.

No, you don't.

The, the need to bait them
is, I don't find is there.

Travis Bader: So here's a
couple of interesting ones.

I can probably answer a few of these
ones, but we'll ask them anyways.

Uh, do you guys really get MP5s or is
that a myth or is that a fish and game

or is that the fish and game dudes?

Ron Leblanc: I've never handled an MP5,
whether in the army or the CO service.

No, that's, uh, I don't know
where, that's probably a US

Game Warden show or something.

Travis Bader: So what
are you guys handling?

Ron Leblanc: Um, we carry automatic
pistol glocks, uh, as a service pistol.

We have, uh, 22s, uh, shotguns,
uh, a 308 patrol rifle, and we

carry tranquilizer, uh, guns.

Travis Bader: So Glock 22 or 22

Ron Leblanc: caliber?

It's a Glock 22, 40 cal.

Right.

Travis Bader: Okay.

I didn't know when he said
22s after that, no problem.

Um, so that's interesting.

The 22s, what do you, using the 22s for?

Ron Leblanc: Small game like coyotes
or, you know, uh, it's, it's a, it's

an easier caliber for smaller mammals
and just gives you more options.

There's more tools in the toolbox
and, you know, that's, that's one

of the cool things about our agency.

And I've had the opportunity
to work with other agencies.

And when you go through recruit
training, you go through with

other, uh, Alberta, Saskatchewan,
Manitoba, Yukon, and, um, Alberta.

Yeah, so there's different
agencies and you get to see what

they use for equipment, what
kind of, how they're kitted out.

Um, and so you get to,
you know, that's good.

I like that or I don't like that.

And so we, I think BC's set up quite
well with their equipment and, um, not a

lot of complaints with the gear we have.

I mean, some great gear and
I'm on the uniform committee.

So we're always looking for new and
better equipment that's lighter.

That's more effective.

That's easier to use.

We use a lot of technical gear,
thermal imagers, you know,

uh, metal detectors, drones.

Um, and then some really just old
fashioned shovels and axes and hand

saws and winches and they work.

And yeah, I mean, there's a
wide breadth of, of, um, things

you got to be proficient at.

And, and nowadays, like one
of those things you got to be

proficient at is like a computer.

Yeah.

And typing.

Yeah, totally.

Cell phones and iPads and all of that

Travis Bader: stuff.

That's good for the younger generation.

They got that one down.

Um, how often do you find yourself
having to, um, uh, you're out of town

and maybe you have to divvy up somewhere.

Are you, does that happen often?

You're getting broken down, stuck.

Ron Leblanc: In, in my area and in
this, this, the region where we are,

we are in because we, we cover such
vast, uh, vast areas like my office.

Covers from Houston to Stewart.

Yeah.

Stewart on the Alaska border.

That's a pretty good area.

Yeah.

So it's a four and a half hour,
five hour drive from Smithers.

If I'm in Houston and I get a
call to be in Stewart, that's a

five and a half, six hour drive.

Mm hmm.

And that's before you deal with
whatever you have to deal with.

Mm hmm.

Then you deal with that and you might
as well just spend the night there.

Mm hmm.

Um, or say if it's full, like
this time of year with tourists,

there's nowhere to sleep.

Maybe you can sleep at one of the
Mounties houses or at the detachment.

Mm hmm.

Or maybe you sleep in
your tent that night.

You know, we just, our truck up
here, our trucks are equipped to

kind of spend the night somewhere.

You know, if something happens at the
bush, out in the bush and you have to

head out there at 11 o'clock and it
may be till five in the morning until

you're done, maybe it's a grizzly bear
mauling, or maybe it's an investigation

that needs attention and you just, you
just have to be prepared to be there.

Whether it be minus 30 or plus
35, like you have to have all your

gear ready to go all the time.

And you know, you're on patrol in
your truck and you have something in

mind to go do, and you may be pulled
away from doing that or come across

something and you just have to be able
to switch gears and, and deal with it.

Travis Bader: So here's
something you'd probably know.

Um, you got to work with your
hands a heck of a lot as a CO.

Minus 30.

What are you using to
keep your mitts warm?

Ron Leblanc: Oh, geez.

Well, obviously try to wear gloves as
much as you can, and then sticking your

arms under your hand, under your armpits.

But I've, I've jammed my hands and
guts of moose to keep him warm.

You know, I thought about doing the
Star Wars thing, climb into one.

Right, right.

But yeah, I mean.

You know, I, I've seen them overnight
come back the next morning to that same

carcass and it's still warm inside.

Travis Bader: Yeah.

Yeah.

That's a, uh, well, that's
a good lesson for hunters.

Yeah.

Ron Leblanc: Take the guts out.

Yes.

Travis Bader: Absolutely.

Um, I don't know how to answer this one.

I don't think you will either,
but, uh, Which government agency

is starting all these fires?

Oh God.

Ha!

Have you, uh, have you seen the,
uh, the conspiracy stuff about,

uh, conductive energy weapons?

No.

Oh, okay.

Apparently the color blue.

Ron Leblanc: That's uh...

Color blue.

Well, we used to have blue
uniforms, but they're black now.

Okay.

Travis Bader: Yeah.

No, they say color bluey if you look at...

Uh, some of these places where these
fires and there's like blue umbrellas

are still up or blue cars are there.

And apparently Oprah's painting our house
blue, like all these, it's on the 66.

6 Hertz spectrum.

Ron Leblanc: So if you have
blue, there's no fires.

Travis Bader: Yeah.

The conductive energy weapon
will bypass your, uh, Oh,

Ron Leblanc: okay.

Well, that's, I've been unlucky then.

Travis Bader: Yeah.

Um, How lenient will they be with someone
who accidentally breaks the rules?

Will it be a rough time?

Ron Leblanc: Accidentally
breaks the rules.

So is that someone that has done something
and reports it, or is that we check

somebody and they realize that they've
done something wrong and we sort of

educate them on the spot that this is an

Travis Bader: infraction?

Good distinction.

Let's say somebody reports, self reports.

Ron Leblanc: Okay.

So there's a common one is.

Uh, say a four point mule deer season,
someone shoots a three point, self

reports, immediately does what they're
supposed to, their call CO, take

the guts out so you're not wasting
the animal because it's definitely

not going to be able to keep it.

Um, we've, we will attend and take
a statement and we'll base that on.

Uh, due diligence of the hunter.

So how long did that guy
stare at that animal?

Did he shoot right away as soon
as he saw horns or did he spend

some time and do his homework?

Maybe he shot at a four point
and hit the three point.

Um, maybe it passed through an animal.

Um, maybe he hasn't had a whole lot
of hunting deer experience, or maybe

he's a seasoned hunter and still was
a little too eager on the trigger.

All of these things play into
our discretion and that's,

we don't have a ticket quota.

People ask, what's your,
we don't have that.

There is no ticket quota.

Nobody's ever told me you
will write this many tickets.

There'll probably be some
questions if you write none.

Travis Bader: Sure.

Ron Leblanc: Yeah, but we
don't have a ticket quota.

So we'll base all of that on
circumstances, uh, what occurred and

then, you know, it could be a warning.

It could be a violation ticket that
that animal is going to be seized.

Uh, your, your tag is still going to
be punched, but, you know, if you don't

report it and we somehow get wind of
it and, and it's going to be a very

different outcome than if you self report.

Travis Bader: Yeah.

I can imagine.

Yeah.

If you could change any law or
deterrent, what would you do

to lower poaching incidents?

Ron Leblanc: I think more education to the
hunting, hunting and fishing population.

Um, Um, we, there's not a lot of
great references for hunters online

or, you know, there's the Cora Cora's
and there's talking to other people.

That's a start.

Um, calling a CO, getting more
information, maybe joining a forum, maybe

joining a hunting group or a game club.

That's a start, but I think the
government could do better in

terms of helping educate hunters.

Uh, so there's courses that you
have to take to go and hunt.

But anybody can just go online
and buy a fishing license.

I know.

And then you're just hope for
the best and see what happens.

And fishing is very highly regulated
and depending on the body of water

you're on and the type of species
you're targeting, there's a lot there.

And to, you know, maybe a little bit
of training or some more education

on the fishing side might, you know,
announce a prevention sort of thing.

Travis Bader: Yeah, I
think that'd be good.

Yeah.

I mean, it's called a
Fish and Wildlife ID.

Yeah.

That kind of makes

Ron Leblanc: sense.

So I don't know if there's some
appetite to integrate some, have a

separate fishing or maybe integrate
that into the hunting or, you know.

Travis Bader: Honestly, I think having a,
uh, just basic, cause like your hunting

course, your core course teaches you how
to be safe, teaches you how to be legal.

Um, those are the big things.

It doesn't teach you how to hunt.

Yeah.

Um.

I mean, people can read the synopsis
and try and extrapolate, but

there's so much to hunting all the
different types of species out there.

Ron Leblanc: You know, and you
know, there's identification

and in the core about animals.

So fish.

Salmon, especially, people
can get that confused.

You know, you keep a coho or maybe
there's no Chinook retention and

they're like, Oh, it's not a Chinook,
it's a sockeye and they get confused.

I know.

And you know, the
photographs aren't so great.

Well, you

Travis Bader: look at the photographs
and then you look at another set of

photographs and they've been taken
at different stages of the spawning

cycle and one looks like the other,
and the things you're looking for

on one now show up on another one.

And it can be, unless
you're out there and you've.

You've done it a bit and you get to
know these critters and the fish.

Ron Leblanc: Yeah.

Like when you kill a steelhead, cause
you think it's just something different.

Whoops.

Yeah.

That's, that's, uh,
that's a bad day for you.

It's

Travis Bader: not a good day.

What do you do if you find somebody
with a steelhead that's, you

know, they're losing the meat

Ron Leblanc: for sure.

Yeah.

There's, there's some,
it, it can, it definitely.

It's a serious offense because of the,
there is no retention of steelhead here.

Can

Travis Bader: First Nation keep steelhead?

Yeah.

On their,

Ron Leblanc: on their land.

Traditional territory.

Traditional territory.

Travis Bader: Okay.

Sure.

Does that

Ron Leblanc: happen?

It does happen, but they also
recognize that the species is

not doing as well as it should.

And, and so, I mean, they're working
with us a lot to educate their own

members on, on, um, what should
be harvested and what shouldn't.

I mean, they, they, they do have a
big, uh, Um, sockeye fishery here that

members can get sockeye from, through
the DFO facility and the cooperation

with, with, uh, the different bands here.

They, so there's enough salmon
to go around for the band here.

Okay.

Travis Bader: Is there anything
that we should be talking about?

You think that we haven't covered so far?

Ron Leblanc: Um.

Well, I'd like to maybe talk a little
bit about the process for a conservation

officer and their training, like what
they are, what the training is like

and what they're, what they have to
go through to get to the point where

you're now seeing this officer in
the middle of nowhere talking to you.

There's a lot of training
and checks and balances that.

That person has to go through to get
to that point totally very different

from how it was 20 years ago Yeah,
it's very regimented now and it's it's

it's uh, it's different from you Some
of these guys that have been around a

long time used to talk to them about
what their training was like it has

Um, and, and now we go through an
academy called Western Conservation

Law Enforcement Academy.

And it's, like I said, it's an
academy, uh, recruit academy,

just like, say, RCMP Depot.

But for game wardens, and it's
in Western Canada, and ourselves,

Alberta, Manitoba, Saskatchewan.

We all joined together to do one academy.

And it's just, we only may have 10
or 15 recruits each, but when you jam

them all together, you got a troop.

We share resources and instructors, uh,
we come together and we provide our own

perspectives on, uh, and expertise on.

So a recruit will show up and,
you know, the first couple of days

it's drill and getting yelled at
and pushups and running and, you

know, the pair and all that stuff.

So that's no different.

And then it's, then it's a series
of courses, off road driving course,

boating course, problem wildlife
course, tranquilizing course, uh,

defensive tactics, firearms, long
arms, investigative techniques, how to

trap wildlife, Uh, Swiftwater Rescue,
um, ORV, how to back up a trailer.

Like.

That's a good one.

Travis Bader: Yeah.

I know a lot of people who
should take that course.

Yeah.

Ron Leblanc: Um, and that's just
the, so there's, I'm sure there's

more than that, uh, first aid and so
it's a bunch of stuff jammed in there

and it's 16 weeks, four months long
and it's basically, it's just a tip.

It's just the tip of the spear.

It's just the start.

The real training is.

When they get back, uh,
to their jurisdiction.

So BC is very different than the
other provinces in terms of how we

get secondary approval from Crown
before those charges get approved.

Other provinces don't have that.

We have that extra layer
of, uh, of approval.

And then BC is unique in different ways
in terms of our law and our authorities.

You know, they may have
different authorities than us.

So they gotta learn some of that
when they graduate from that academy.

Then they meet their field trainer.

And then they do a minimum a year.

It could be longer, but it's a minimum
a year you're attached to the HIP.

Wow.

To an experienced officer.

And there's a book that you have to...

You know, get through that kind
of gives you the guidance of what

we want to see you get exposed to.

And it may not all be done in that area.

You may have to go to other parts of
the province to get that experience.

Uh, for instance, like moose
and big critters are not going

to be done in Vancouver Island.

Right.

But they have elk and yeah.

So, you know, a minimum a year to do that.

And me personally, I think you're
not really understanding a fair

grasp of it until five years in.

That

Travis Bader: long, eh?

Yeah.

There's just so much to it.

There's

Ron Leblanc: so much.

I mean, you, you can get people that
maybe are book smart or whatever, but to

get the experience to be in the trenches.

You know, five years, I think,
to be, you're, you're now, you're

kind of feeling comfortable with
the scenarios and how, you know,

you're always going to be stumped.

I mean, you'll be at a gas station
and someone will walk up to you and

ask you a question and you're like,
I actually have to look that up.

I'm not sure.

You know, people expect us to know
everything, but we don't, um, and the

regulations are And each fishing and
hunting and, and all the other, uh, leads

that we are, we're lead for, you know,
if someone's having a fire and they need,

uh, us to go deal with the fire during
a fire ban, we're, we're going to that.

Someone's burning slash when they
shouldn't be burning, we're not, there's

environmental file, we're going to that.

ORV, uh, we're the lead agency for that.

So there's, you know, not, not including
all the other stuff that we do with

helping the local police with emergency
situations and, you know, in small towns,

there's only so many cops and, you know,
if they need a hand, we, we get called

search and rescue need an extra boat.

We know the area we're well equipped.

We have all the communications devices.

We're plug and play.

We're like the Swiss army
knife of law enforcement.

We can do it all.

That's pretty

Travis Bader: cool.

Ron Leblanc: Boats, quads, drones.

Or the snowmobiles.

You know, and then there's the,
these recruits still have to

go through avalanche safety and
snowmobile training and ice rescue

and lots and lots of training.

And then there's all the law
enforcement side that's more specific

to BC and getting all of that done.

And then, so now they've got all
of this stuff and they've got to

retain it and, and then be deployed.

And then they get sent out
and we'll see how it goes.

Travis Bader: Yeah.

And then you get sent out
and you're on your own?

On your own.

And you're dealing with Lord knows
what, just average anglers and

hunters that are maybe bending the
rules a bit, maybe ignorant, or maybe

people that are outright poaching and
doing illegal things and knowingly

Ron Leblanc: so.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And for me, like.

Like, I've trained a number of
recruits, and I'm a, one of the Youth

Enforced Instructor on that cadre,
and I also train at the academy.

Um, you know, knowing your authorities
as an officer, and knowing the

legislation, and also why, so that,
uh, Hunter or Fisher ask you, why do

we need to have no barbs on the river?

Understanding why that regulation
is there, and trying to explain

that to the public so they can now
buy into that, versus just a rule.

There's a reason for it.

This is the reason.

And then now they understand, well, why
is there a motor vehicle closure here?

This makes no sense.

Well, sir, there's a reason the closure
is here is because access, there's a

caribou herd here and it's very sensitive
and having motor vehicle, you know,

just trying to justify why that's in

Travis Bader: place.

That'd be an interesting
education piece for the government

to put out, just the whys.

Yeah.

This is a rule.

Why?

Here's a rule.

Why?

I always

Ron Leblanc: want to know why.

So

Travis Bader: do I.

I agree.

It's important to know why,
then you understand, and then

you can tell other people.

Yeah, I agree.

Ron Leblanc: But yeah, I mean, you
know, so if you do encounter a COO

in the back country and, um, for me,
this I'm speaking from my perspective,

because honesty goes a long way.

And the minute you lied to
me, my discretion goes away.

Yeah.

I have a lot of discretion and we have
the ability to practice that discretion.

Hmm.

Um, and if you're open and honest, you
know, we're going to work with the person.

Travis Bader: I don't have any
patience for somebody who's dishonest.

I should imagine other people are like

Ron Leblanc: that.

Yeah, I, I, I'm too old, man.

I've been around, I've been there
and done that with previous life.

And I, I don't play the drama thing.

Uh, I'm pretty

Travis Bader: straightforward.

Yeah.

I'd much rather someone just keep
their mouth shut than lie to me.

Yeah.

Um, um, well, Ron, thank you very much.

That was, uh, some interesting questions
from the public that came up there.

I know there's some really interesting
stories that are probably not for

public consumption, but they're,
they're a lot of fun, really enjoyed.

Going out with you yesterday, that was,
uh, it was neat to see what you do, what

a day in the life of a CO looks like.

And, um, I can see why the people here
in Smithers say this is our conservation

officer and not the conservation officer.

Thank you so much for being on this.

So thanks

Ron Leblanc: for having me.

It's been awesome.

And we'll see if there's appetite
to do it again and go from there.

I love it.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.