Subscribe
Share
Share
Embed
You became a coach to help people — but no one told you how to build the business behind it.
Coach as Entrepreneur is the show for coaches who want to go beyond referrals and create a real business that supports both their clients and their family. Each episode explores the systems, strategies, and stories that help coaches simplify marketing, attract the right clients, and grow sustainably, without burning out.
Whether you’re just starting or looking to scale, this is your roadmap to running your coaching practice like a business… and doing it with heart.
Build the system. Serve your clients. Support your family.
You know, AI isn't replacing leaders.
I mean, that's the thing people need to understand.
It's revealing them.
If I, as a leader, can go and find information
and the execution of any plan I have is a lot easier,
what matters the most is the judgment I put into that.
So you're taking away a lot of this mechanical work
that's not necessarily, you know, useful.
And you're really relying now on people's judgment
and their acumen and what's human about that side of it
to be successful.
And that's hard for a lot of people.
Today, we're speaking with Jane Williams, a former CIO turned executive coach who spent 20 years leading global virtual teams at IBM before building her own coaching practice focused on IT executives.
She holds a doctorate in leadership of remote teams and has created a systematic approach to helping technical leaders navigate the invisible challenges of executive presence and career advancement,
which is exactly the kind of structured, non-hustle approach our audience needs to hear about building a coaching business in a specific niche.
You became a coach to help people, but no one told you how to build the business behind it.
Welcome to Coach's Entrepreneur, the show for coaches building real businesses with systems, strategy, and heart.
Build the systems, serve your clients, and support your family.
Jane, thank you so much for joining us today.
Thank you for having me. This is an exciting opportunity to talk.
You know, our first conversation, I think I just had so much fun speaking with you.
I'm really excited for this conversation.
You've had a really interesting experience in business IT.
And I think right now, because you were working with IBM, and IBM came out with Watson and was kind of at the forefront of AI. And right now we're hitting this point in history where so many people are interacting with it, right? I'm interested, what are your thoughts about where we are today with AI and with coaching and, you know, anyways, I'd love to hear.
Yeah, exactly.
You know, it's really, really fascinating.
I mean, you brought up the Watson experience.
I was back in IBM when that was first coming out, when they were first doing the trials.
Everybody who was in a profession had to actually sit there and do duty teaching Watson their domain.
You know, these things, everybody assumes that an AI just is sprung up and boom, it knows everything.
But no, you have to teach these things.
you have to let them, they have to breathe life into them, you know, so they know what to do.
So it's not just a, it's a lot of work. It's a lot of money. It's a lot of hard,
tedious work. But once you've got it going, it's fantastic. So what we see now today is something
that's absolutely, I am so focused on technology that's useful and, you know, technology for the
sake of technology. Okay. So what, but AI to me, it has become so useful and so prevalent. You know,
Well, you mentioned before we were talking here is how prevalent everything is now.
Before it was just in the realm of people who had the money or tools or smart enough
to do it.
But now anybody can interact with AI.
And I just see it helping in so many ways.
I mean, it's just fantastic.
But the way it's changed, I think the way it changes leaders and the people that I talk
to in coaching, I think is going to be very profound.
Right now, there's a lot of talk about AI taking people's jobs.
How do you build in resilience for all the AI tools?
And where do you see the people you work with, specifically because you're in, you're talking with IT executives, right? What are they concerned about? And what are they trying to work on for themselves in this future?
That's a fascinating question.
I think I can see a lot of people who are terrified.
I get that.
Change is terrifying.
That's happened to any job you're in.
Those people will be left by the side of the road, I believe.
You know, people who can't make a change and look at what's really there and understand
it for what it really is and how I can use it rather than be afraid of it.
But really, it's just, you know, AI isn't replacing leaders.
I mean, that's the thing people need to understand.
It's revealing them.
If I as a leader can go and find information and the execution of any plan I have is a lot easier, what matters the most is the judgment I put into that. So you're taking away a lot of this mechanical work that's not necessarily useful. And you're really relying now on people's judgment and their acumen and what's human about that side of it to be successful. And that's hard for a lot of people.
Yeah.
How do you train somebody for that?
Like, it's not one plus one equals two.
The output is nuanced, right?
You have to look at all the different variables.
And then you have to have pushed yourself to learn and experience things to understand
how do you react in this situation?
How do you take that?
So it's a lot harder.
It's harder in some ways.
But when you look at, take a technology, and when you see that it's useful and you understand,
And oh my gosh, there's a rare ability that some people have.
And I think a lot of technologists are that way.
When they see a new technology, their mind instantly explodes with all the possibilities.
You know, some people, their mind constricts and gets smaller.
But when you look at the possibilities too, one of the things I talk with my leaders about
so much, and this is really, really common in IT, is they know everything there is to
know about technology.
They are great technologists.
They can do product.
They can do anything.
but they don't understand the business they support.
So what better way to help you understand that
than have an AI agent that can go out there
and help you with information like that?
Like what's the competition?
What's my business really like?
Things that you wouldn't really be all that.
Some people are scared to go tell a boss
that I don't know this about my company.
So go out and find it.
And the ability to manage your own self
using these tools is just phenomenal.
I think it really is for the person who is self-motivated enough to learn how to use it and to go and find the information.
I think it's your superpower.
To learn how to use it wisely.
You're not going to get that from an AI.
Well, maybe in the future.
But yeah, yeah, I agree.
Because like anybody can use a hammer, right?
But how are you using it effectively, efficiently?
Like if you've never, no one ever showed you how to use the hammer to hit that nail with the head, you might use the bottom of it, right? So, you know, I feel like a lot of people who are playing with AI today don't really know how to use it effectively. And they're just using the handle to hit the nail, right?
Well, that's interesting. That's a great analogy. How would you fix that?
I mean, it's actually something I think about with my son, too, because right now, a lot of concern right now with AI and students has been like, they're not thinking for themselves.
They're not writing their own homework.
Some kids, because of COVID, they didn't really learn how to read well.
Right.
So there's a lot of problems coming into this explosion of AI tools and accessibility.
And so right now, it only gets rose if you just use AI to think for yourself.
Right.
So for my son, what I tell him to do is AI can think for you, but if you let AI think for you, that's brain rot, right?
Like all the kids, brain rot.
And everything you produce is going to be just AI garbage.
I tell him, like, if you want to be stuck with everybody, the majority of people, because that's how most people are using it, this is what's going to happen to you.
This is what research is saying, right?
Because there's already research out on this stuff, and it's not great.
And so what I've been telling him to do is don't use AI to do the work for you.
Use AI to help you do your work better, to think better, to do it faster.
And so actually, I built a writing app for him.
It reads his writing and it analyzes it and it tells him, OK, this is good.
This is bad.
This is how you can improve.
And simple things like grammar mistakes or punctuation like that, that'll just tell him,
OK, these are things that were just done wrong.
This is how you should have written it.
But in terms of like logic, consistency, flow, it'll actually say, actually, you should do these things better.
You know, that's really interesting.
I have taught online for a long time and I've seen that evolve.
And the reason I was so into it, I was so dissatisfied with traditional education.
You know, the sage on the stage, somebody standing up preaching at you and it doesn't work anymore.
And like you said, using the AI in an interactive way to learn is just fantastic.
you know I get students who turn in AI papers all the time and it's like okay you're an MBA student
you're paying money for this MBA now I will freely admit that I bought all my COBOL programs back in
1980 when I had to do those if you're going to cheat you're going to cheat and if if the education
is of no value to you you're going to treat it that way so and where are you going to be in the
end you know what you're learning is reasoning you're you're not learning so much the rope
things, but you're learning the reasoning skills, the ability to act as an intelligent human being
in the world. And if you rely on something else to do that all the time, you can do that without AI.
Yeah. Right. I think that's really kind of the lever, right? Is how do you use it to help
yourself to be better in the workplace, to think better, to find the information
so that you can make better decisions more quickly, right?
The first question I ever ask anybody in coaching is, what is your definition of success? What does that mean to you? And if success means that you get AI to write all your reports and you get out of work at three o'clock in the afternoon, then you've achieved success. But that's not going to really get you. You got to be realistic at where you are, who you are, what you want out of life and how to get it. And AI is just another way to do it.
I totally agree.
Although getting out of work at three o'clock and, you know, depending on what stage of
life you are, if you have kids, that's great.
But if you can get out at three o'clock, have seen and made all of the big important decisions
by that time, because you have all of that analysis, that data, so that you don't have
to go looking for all of it.
You don't have to figure it all out.
Like, where do I get it?
How do I, you know, see and understand it?
Then that, again, that's the superpower, right?
It makes it so much more efficient for us.
You know, what's really interesting, you jogged that in my memory, is like AI sees patterns.
You know, it's really, really good at patterns for that.
And when you are looking at making decisions about a system, you can have AI do a lot of analysis for you.
But unless you have the judgment and understand the system, you're not going to improve it.
But it can do all the background work for you.
And you'll get, how many times as a data analyst when I was at IBM did I see people?
I mean, they have mountains of data, but they have no idea what to use.
I mean, an AI turns through that and pull.
How many times do you take like, you know, the transcript from a meeting and it pulls out the action items and the, you know, how much does that save you?
So it's using it for the things it's good at and using your brain for the things your brain is good at.
You know, we jumped right into the conversation, but we really missed an important part of your story, which is you spent years in technology.
You became a CIO and then you transitioned into coaching.
How does that happen?
Interesting.
It happens because I have either participated, used coaching all of my career.
Early on at IBM, I was struggling and blaming everybody else for my failures.
And I don't even remember how I did it, but I went out and hired a coach on my own outside
of business.
And she pulled me around and turned me around and it was fantastic.
I mean, I never would have achieved any kind of success without that.
I probably would have just quit and moved on to something else.
But then I used coaching a lot.
I mean, obviously as a manager and a leader, but, and when I was a CIO, I put a couple
of my execs or my really up and coming high, high potential folks through sessions with an external
coach, and they just took off. So I see it, I see the value of the coaching. And especially when
you're in a company getting that external view of a coach that's not within your company to,
you know, give you that perspective. And that sense was just unbelievably important to me.
And so when I retired, I was approached by the company that I'd used before, and they asked me
to coach. So I went through all the training and all that good stuff. And yeah, months later,
I emerged as a coach. I mean, that's fantastic. And actually, I see that pretty often where
the people who become coaches had such a great experience being coached. And then they saw that
potential to be able to, you know, after they've kind of like, like at the end of your career,
phase one, you decided what do I do next? Someone approaches you and like, what about this? What
about coaching. So how long have you been coaching now? I've been coaching for, well, since I think
since 21. So I've been coaching for four years now. And I think like during that time, I think
that's when I saw the biggest increase in coaches or people becoming coaches. So for you, as you got
into becoming a coach, let me ask you this question, because I think a lot of people don't
really recognize this. When you become a coach, because you're generally, you're operating as a
solo LLC, right? As a solo business. Most coaches walk into this, they're not thinking like, I'm now
a small business owner, I'm a solopreneur. They kind of just think, I'm just going to start coaching
and helping people. What was your thinking when you came into coaching? That was exactly it. I
thought all I'm going to do is just say, okay, I'm coaching now. And I'd have a bunch of people say,
you know which obviously doesn't happen it's really strange I'm just sitting here this is
I retired in March of 2020 I started well actually I started coaching right after that so it was 2020
when I started coaching I really thought I was just so naive I didn't I hadn't done anything
like this at all and I just figured that was what it was going to be but to me it is so much more
I went through everything I went through video training I went through all the LinkedIn stuff
I went through all of the, you know, coaching and all of that stuff to get better at coaching
and better at getting clients.
And I just learned that you have to construct a business based on your personality and who
you are.
It's just exactly what I would tell somebody else.
And I'm not a person who's going to get out there on LinkedIn and just sell, sell, sell,
sell, sell.
I've built a solid and continual reputation.
And although, unfortunately, I'm a contractor with a firm, so I can't go back to the
companies that I've worked with, unfortunately, because they're nice companies. But people tell
other people and friends of other people. And honestly, this kind of thing, coaching is so
trust based. Everybody's a coach now. And there are some really awful coaches and really bad people
who will take your money for no reason and give you nothing. So that trust. And I honestly, I just
relaxed. And the minute I relaxed, I started just not doing all that stuff last year. And everything
started happening. That's interesting. I wonder if there was a convergence of things because,
you know, there's that cold start, like you have to set up the foundation and then you have to do
enough work so that there's a critical mass of people who really know you and then the work
starts to come in. So I wonder if there was a convergence of you'd spent four years coaching,
building your reputation, and then you decided let's just relax and have fun with it. So I'm
curious if there was a convergence of that timing. But I also think one of the things like what you
said is coaching is so trust based, right? Because you're spending time, the leader has to be open
and vulnerable with you with, you know, some difficult things sometimes, right? Because it's
not always just how do I become a better communicator? Sometimes it's I'm having this
problem at home, and it's impacting me at work. How do I deal with this? So that trust is hard
earned. And I see, and in the conversations I've had, when you have people referring you,
right, that person who refers you, there's a level of trust that gets transferred from
referrer. And so it makes it easier when you have that conversation, right?
Exactly. It doesn't always work. I mean, I've had conversations with people that it just didn't
click with us and we knew it wasn't going to happen and we weren't going to work for it as
a coach. And you've got to be able to understand and recognize that as well. It's, you know,
you think, oh, I'm a coach, I can talk to anybody. And it feels like a personal blow if you don't
click with someone, but it just doesn't happen all the time, you know, so you got to be able to
relax and do that too. And I think there's a certain kind of person maybe or type of person
that you get with word of mouth, and they start to get comfortable with that. And so IT execs,
just, you know, as a group, they're more comfortable that way. It's interesting. And I
think you're right though, because I was not comfortable with myself while I was comfortable
with myself as a coach. I was not at all comfortable as a salesperson. And I had to go
through a number of personalities and changes trying to find exactly who I am in that milieu.
And I think the reason it's successful now is I hate the word authentic, but I am coming across
as authentic more because I'm relaxed and I'm doing something that's in my character.
One coach, Eileen, she was a guest a couple of episodes back. She terms it as needy is creepy, where when you kind of come off stiff or you're not really feeling authentic, like it comes across even in a video call. And so people are turned off by that, honestly. Right. And I think it just most coaches are subject matter experts in their the first half of their world of their work. Right.
And so when they're coming into becoming a coach, owning a business, becoming the salesperson, right, it's something they're very uncomfortable with most of the time.
Most coaches I've talked to, I mean, it sounds like similar experiences, uncomfortable with sales, uncomfortable with like the idea of marketing.
And so it's just difficult.
It's not your profession.
You know, if you're a company, you've got the marketing department to do it for you.
You got a sales guy to pick it up for you.
you're doing the whole thing and it's not necessarily what you want to be doing and you
know i hear so many coaches you see it on the social media all the time it's like i just want
to coach i don't want to sell well okay you still got to sell either and that's one of the reasons
i'm kind of working with this on the side with this company because they're doing the marketing
for those clients you know so i've got some clients coming from them i'm working for them
on a contract basis. I'm still free to get my own. So I've gotten a little bit of both.
But I had to learn sales and you don't really understand how important that is. And I went
through so many iterations of people telling me, do this, do that, do this, do that, until I finally
got to where, oh, this is how I feel comfortable selling something. It takes time to figure that
out, I think, like any other skill, right? You just got to feel comfortable, feel confident.
And then once you have enough experience, it gets easier. Honestly, it's like me on this podcast,
the first episodes are really rough. I look back at it, I have a hard time watching it.
And I'm hoping and praying as I do more, it's getting better.
You know, one of the first things I did, I didn't grow up with video. I mean,
my generation, our family didn't even have a movie camera. There's nothing,
no videos of me running around. And I signed up with a company where they would get on for an hour
and they would blast me with questions and do these videos. And like you said, it's so
cringeworthy at the start. And I would almost throw up before I came in to do it and everything.
And at the end, I'm like, I can stand up and do a five minute video now on anything, you know, and it doesn't bother me. So it's just doing it and doing it and doing it.
Yeah, it's putting the reps in, right? The more you do it, the more you realize, oh, it's not really that bad. You start to get a feel for it. You have to get a flow for it. I mean, like in sports, right? Very few people are just amazing at the beginning. But again, those are few and far between. And even you think about the people like Michael Jordan, Tiger Woods, these athletes, they didn't wake up and just become the top. They spent the time and the effort to get there.
and a lot of coaches spend a lot of time on the coaching,
getting good at the coaching.
You need to also spend time on building your business.
And that is often the most unattractive part
of the coaching business because you just don't like it.
And you know, if you don't, I mean, there are platforms
and there are ways, you know,
like I have this company that's hired me.
So, you know, you can do that if you want to.
You don't have to be the entrepreneur to do it,
but it's easier.
and you know there are so many bad people out there trying to be coaches and it's very hard
to understand who's a good coach you know who do i call it if i was going to get a coach right now
i don't know what i would do it would be very interesting how i would select a coach or how
i would find one i know that international coaching federation which is really the only
governing body there is you know they have local chapters and i go to the meetings and stuff and
that's a good way to meet people and get out there and you know we're doing it the thing where they
They did pro bono coaching for a group and everybody, you know, so those are ways to get your name out there and get your word.
Do what you love and then find ways to manipulate other people into doing the sales for you.
I think there are a few ways to do marketing and sales, but I think that by far, right, referrals is the best way because there's that trust in the system.
The more conversations I have, it's OK, you can do the referrals.
The problem with referrals is the cycle of up and down feast or famine, right?
Because when you're not busy, you spend lots of time trying to network and build that up.
And then when you get busy, you stop doing that.
And then eventually the work drops off.
And so the people who have been able to be successful and grow the fastest are the ones
that have been able to do both continually, right?
Because they systematize, they give themselves a goal of every two weeks, every week, whatever,
I'm going to connect with this many people, check, check, check. And because they do it
consistently, they are able to continually grow their business consistently, right? Well,
they have a wait list, which is- Yeah, that's what you want. You want a wait list.
Right. But most coaches don't have that. And it's hard. I mean, with a market that's over,
that's glutted. And I think a lot of people are kind of, maybe this big trough will,
and there'll be an even number of people who will do it.
And that's, we can understand it.
I think there's a difference too.
One thing I tell you,
I have a way different experience selling to a company
than to a person.
I am much more familiar and capable
as an IBM consultant of going and selling
to a board of directors
than I am standing there selling something to you.
It feels different.
And a way to coach and to do that
is to sell your services to a company.
That's how I've gotten most of my referrals
through people that I know here in town, through company who are looking for someone to coach
their people. And if you get a company paying for the coaching, you're getting a lot better
deal than if you have an individual. I mean, individuals don't have a lot of
money to spend on coaching services, whereas companies, it's nothing.
And I would definitely recommend that as a way to start marketing, especially if you
have a lot of connections and you know people and you're comfortable working in a business
environment. I'd like to kind of delve into that just a little bit. The difference between
having that conversation with a business versus an individual, right? You know, cash flow,
companies do have the money versus individuals don't necessarily have access to that same amount
of money, or maybe they can't write it off as a tax deductible line item. But what is it about
the decision-making process, right? Because I do think individuals and businesses think about
that decision differently. That's interesting because if I have an appointment with a law firm
and I go in there and talk to the partners and I've sold myself to everybody in that room,
they know then and feel confident in me and they know then and feel confident that I can
address their people's concerns. If I'm there with just one person, I got to understand that
person immediately. I've got to find out their levers. If I'm trying to sell to you in a
conversation. I got to be really focused on you at that moment. And there's a lot more variables.
I don't know. I think it's harder for some people. Some people sell person to person a lot more
easily. Well, I was listening to somebody, a YouTuber talking about, you know, building
businesses because he went from just creating content to building businesses. And one of the
things he was saying was that in terms of the decision making process between B2B and B2C
is that for B2C, for you to sell to an individual, that individual has emotions.
They've got all these other things going on in that decision-making process.
For a business, it's much more of a logical decision, right?
They remove more of the doubts or the what-ifs or the emotional part of it and look at,
we're looking at this person as a vendor.
Do they have a track record?
Do they have the experience?
Do they have the credibility?
Do we believe that they can do what we're asking?
Whereas an individual, I think that the calculus is a little bit different, right?
You know, I think that the calculus is, do they have, you know, you're asking the same thing. Do they have the track record? Do they have the skills? Do they have that? But when you're selling to a person, it's so much more visceral and you're selling to something very valuable to that person. It's more like a doctor almost, you know, a lawyer. So it's more of a closer connection.
making that person and you're right up in front selling to that person and you may do that a
hundred times before you land one client right and you're constantly adapting to each of those people
and you have to if i go into a business i'm talking in an environment that i'm familiar
i'm talking to people who pretty much already know what they want know what to expect out of me
there's not as much of that personal angst going on it's more of a process but they still have to
trust me. I mean, they still have to find that trust. But I mean, you're talking to businesses
that already have some connection to, correct? Somebody has kind of either given you an intro
or maybe, you know, somebody on that board. So I think the question is then, well, again,
it's the referral, right? Like somebody is there that can basically vouch for you, right? Who
transfers the trust that they have, people have in them to you. I guess like with a board, you have
a higher chance of somebody sticking up for you, right? Versus if you have a one-to-one conversation
with someone who's never met you, who's sticking up for you in that conversation?
Nobody. You're on your own. Each person wants to be sold to differently and people are,
it's interesting how you mentioned that companies are used to being sold to. They know when I'm
coming in with a pitch, I'm going to do a proposal, I'm going to walk in there and it's going to be
the same as they've seen it a million times before. With a person looking for a coach,
It's a much more personal, visceral, yeah.
Maybe it's more akin to like someone looking for a psychologist.
Obviously, like as a coach, you're not necessarily selling yourself as a psychologist, although
there are psychologists who become coaches and can do both.
But I think it's much more of that because you need to have a personal emotional connection
with that person, right?
Yeah.
That's interesting.
It is interesting.
I have found so many people have been on so many bad calls with people that are trying
to sell me something and the desperation comes through and have you the advice that somebody
gave somebody in sales school was to always close on the first call is the worst thing i've ever
heard in this situation because i've had people saying if you sign right now it's like half price
or something like that and you're trying to force someone and this is a hard decision to make and
people don't sign up on that first call but you kind of give people in the coaching you got to
be a little more relaxed about it than that hard sell. Yeah. I think people give into the FOMO,
right? The fear of missing out. It's like, oh, it's 50% off if I do it right now. When will
that deal ever come back? There is some of that, but I think now there's a bigger difference now
than there was even 10 years ago where we as a society have become so much more used to. We're
desensitized to these things now because we have so much more exposure to it. I would say even on
LinkedIn, I would say you probably have received the messages selling services, right? There are
a few coaches I've talked to who haven't had at least one of those messages, which is, it's fine
because, you know, people have a service that they're trying to sell it. But we've gotten so
used to it that it's like, okay, delete, delete, delete, because you know what they're trying to
do. And so I think those tactics of trying to sell on that first call, it doesn't work as well
because again, we're used to it. We know, well, maybe you're going to give me a 50% discount now,
but if you can give it to me today, you could probably give it to me in a week or a month,
right? Or it's like, you can do this, but maybe I can find somebody else who can do it too for
that price. So it's just like, as you say, it doesn't really work now because for a variety
of reasons. If you were going to look for a coach right now, you decided you really wanted to take
on something that you haven't done before. How would you find a coach?
You know, that's really hard for me because I'm talking to so many coaches, so many wonderful,
like amazing coaches. I think one would definitely be the experience that they've had.
Because for me, I wouldn't look for somebody with a CFO background. Like I would definitely
look for somebody who's been working as a top level C-suite corporate executive or as a,
who's owned their own businesses as a solopreneur. I basically run a solo enterprise. I work with
VAs, but it's basically me because I want to have somebody who's had that experience because they
know what I'm walking through now. Although like the problems I have as a person, a coach can help
me through any of that. But if I find a coach who's been in my seat, who's walked this path
before me, then I get that benefit of they can help me through the decision-making processes
or give me advice as they've been through that experience and challenge, right?
So there's the wisdom of the years that they've had
that I don't have to like hit my head against and try to figure out my own, right?
You didn't become a coach to be a marketer.
But if you want to build a sustainable business,
you need a system that works for you while you're coaching.
CoachOps is designed to help you go from unpredictable referrals
to a reliable marketing system.
without it feeling pushy or salesy. If you're ready to build something systematic,
visit kyber5.com forward slash coachops. You know, that's interesting because in coaching,
and I try to make this really, really clear to people. I don't think people really understand
it. There's coaching, there's mentoring, and then there's consulting, right? And theoretically,
when you go through coaching class, theoretically, I could coach you on anything. It's a matter of
bringing out what you're talking about and what you're thinking and asking leading questions and
you know okay theoretically but I find that in actuality most of my coaching is probably 50%
mentoring 50% coaching and once in a while I'll do consulting I mean I've done a few
last-minute presentations with people so you know that's consulting is where you're actually doing
the work for the person and so I have done that as well but it's you're looking for that mentor
I mean, if you're really looking for just a coach, anybody who has a sense of listening and active listening, who can draw things out from you can do a good job.
And I think that's the truth is like, and that's why for you, right?
You focus on IT executives.
IT executives will more likely feel more comfortable with you versus somebody who was in marketing or finance because your experience.
And not that you guys would coach.
Yeah.
your coaching part of it would be very similar, right? Assuming they have the same skills,
but your experience and your history adds to that. And it's just like the added bonus of that,
right? It's the add-on. You feel, yeah, I've been there. I know what an IT exec feels. I know what
they're up against. Yeah. A lot of that stuff I've been there, done that. It's kind of a shortcut,
if you will, to where we're going. It's a shortcut, but it's the question when everybody
coach at some point in any coaching thing, somebody will ask me, what would you do in
that situation? And I'm like, that's the question. I don't want to answer that one. I want to have
them figure out what do you think I would do? Or I don't want to tell people what to do in a
particular situation. You know, there's another thing we brought up coaching for a company
instead of coaching for an individual. I'm being paid by a company. I've been in the situation a
couple of times where the person I'm coaching, really the best answer was for them to leave
the company. And so who am I getting paid by? Who am I serving here? I'm serving the greater good
because we're deciding I'm okay. If that person's really not that good for that company, they should
go. So, and we've had those frank conversations, but that's the kind of thing, another thing you
got to think about. Who's paying your money? Yeah. Who's your client, right? That's hard,
right? I've sat down with a sponsor and I've told them, listen, you know, here's the thing.
You know, this woman was not, you know, there was a problem. She knew there was a problem. We've
talked through all this and she's arrived at this decision and he's like, you're right. It was the
decision we need to come to. So you just kind of, it's hard. Where you are, like the way you have
your business set up, you work with a company that brings you clients, you run your own and
you find your own clients. How do you balance between those responsibilities? Like potential
for conflict is there, like, right. If you had a client who just wants to work with you or
they kind of came through that other company, like how do you balance that? But for you also,
like, is this the kind of business that you wanted to build? Did you want to rely on somebody else?
Or do you eventually just want to be able to just run on your own?
Well, one thing to remember is I am retired and I'm not reliant on this income. So I can pretty
much do what I want. And that makes me happy. So I do enjoy it. The group that I'm working with
is fantastic. I have a long-term relationship with them. I trust them. The only drawback is
they are fortune 500 companies and every one that i coach with i i can't go back you know unless it's
through them so it's an issue but it hasn't been that major of a deal but it's a balance and you
just gotta decide and it's taken me like five years to get to this perfect balance to where i
know first i thought i want 15 clients i want to have 15 clients in a waiting list going on i don't
want to do that so i'm i finally replied it i don't want that many clients when it gets to be
oh, I got to be on this call with this person. Then you know you got too many clients.
So yeah, I want to keep it to a level that's doable for me without burnout,
because that's another thing. Shoot. I mean, you can burn out so easily.
Right. And you're retired, right? As you said. So why do you want to do something that's burning
you out? That's killing your energy? What is your number right now? How many people are you coaching?
What's that number for you? My max is eight to 10. I've got six right now.
You know, it's been kind of low with the holidays, but I can take on a few more.
But I don't want to do more than 10.
I absolutely cannot.
So, you know, you've got to be fresh and sit down and kind of do a little 10 minute meditation before I get on with anybody.
You got to be fresh in there.
If you're like hassled and you're sitting down, you go, what?
You know, people can tell.
You have to, when you walk into that, you have to like let go of everything else that you've been dealing with too, right?
If you want to serve your client the best.
And if you're doing too many clients, it's stressful on its own, right?
I can't remember what was their problem.
I don't remember.
That's bad.
Very, very bad.
I find that for most coaches, the one-to-one is probably about eight to 12, if they're
coaching individuals.
More than that becomes harder to manage.
What was their problem?
I wonder, because you're also working within inside businesses, do you do any team coaching
as well?
Or is it just one-to-one?
Yeah, it has been one-to-one so far.
I would love to do team coaching.
I'd love to do group coaching.
There's a certification in that that I would like to get.
I have not ever done that.
So I don't know what it would be like.
So I mean, I've been part of those sessions, but yeah, it's a whole different skill.
I've had a lot of experience in the team coaching certification trainings, and I know how they
kind of function and work.
And a lot of times it's actually a little bit easier.
Is it?
Yeah, because a lot of in-coaching programs work is you facilitate conversations.
You will often talk through like what are the big problems the team is facing and kind of show them how to coach each other, coach themselves.
And so instead of spending a lot of time one-to-one with five or ten individuals, you spend an hour or two hours kind of facilitating.
And then they kind of work together to coach themselves.
Like what I did every day in my job when I was working as a leader, right?
Yeah.
That's what I do.
As a CIO, I came into the most dysfunctional team on the planet.
And we started by having a lot of those open coaching sessions.
I know how it is.
So I imagine if you got into that, it'll feel pretty natural for you.
Okay, good.
I will take it on now.
Thank you.
That was my step that I hadn't taken yet.
I mean, the other benefit of team coaching as well is it can often be the way you balance it, right?
Like you would pay, you receive less money per head, but per hour you end up earning more.
Right. Wow.
And so it's often what I see, it's coaches do one-to-one first, they get comfortable with that.
And then the next, what's next? And that's often team coaching.
Interesting. Wow. I remember how scared I was before my first coaching. Do you remember your
first time you ever did a coaching engagement? Gosh, how scared you were?
So I don't actually call myself a coach.
I don't really coach.
So I spent 12 years in the coaching industry doing support, helping with certifications,
running certification programs, and then doing a lot of the background operations and systems.
And then I spent the last few years in more of operations and product.
And I always kind of felt, so I'm almost 40 now.
So when I got into the coaching industry, I felt like too young.
Who wants to work with someone who is younger than me?
I've always looked kind of young as well.
Yeah, that's interesting.
I didn't think about that.
So I've always thought if I started coaching, I'll wait until maybe 40, mid-40s to really
call myself a coach and just do that.
So my background aside is when I was 18, I got licensed as a senior in high school to
sell life insurance.
Exactly, right?
Would you buy life insurance from an 18-year-old?
No.
Exactly.
That was my experience.
is like, it didn't matter if I was licensed to do it, if I understood all of the ins and outs,
there's a lot of level of credibility and trust that's just not there. That was kind of my
personal experience that said, I think I could actually do really well. And I've had that comment
before, but I've just decided I've got other things I can do. Eventually this will be, when
I want to do this, I think I'll just, I can take off with it. That's interesting. That really is.
Wow. You know, there is a need, there's a lot of coaching platforms out there, but there's a need
for one that's really easy to use and good.
I am actually working on that.
There's a ton of them out there
and they're not really all that great.
So it's interesting, like over the holiday break,
I vibe coded a new project management tool for myself.
You're crazy.
But yeah, it's fun.
Like I realized over the last few years,
I really love product development.
I always loved Legos
and I realized I love the act of creation.
and building applications is like Lego blocks.
You're building something,
you're seeing something and you're building it.
And so like with the business that I'm building as well,
it's very much the same.
And so it's been fun.
And like with, again, coming back to AI,
like I can think through and create a PRD,
you know, a few sessions
and then within probably less than two hours.
And now with all of the AI tools
that can do front and back end development,
as long as you have a clear picture
of what you're trying to achieve.
Trying to do.
That's the problem.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And then the UI and the UX,
and that's through prototyping and trial and error,
but you've got your functionality working.
So it's been really cool.
I actually ended up doing three apps over three weeks.
Really?
Okay.
So these platforms are much better
than I was using Visual Basic, right?
Yeah.
Well, so the platforms themselves
haven't necessarily changed.
It's the ability to leverage an AI tool
that if you give them the specific outcomes you're looking for,
it can reason through how to do that.
Figure out how to do it.
Best practice, right?
That's where I was so good at the reasoning and figuring things out.
It was the details of getting the programming right
that I just couldn't handle.
See, I would have been brilliant.
You know what my big thing is now?
The big gap in what we need.
I have been getting into volunteer activities,
and there are many, many senior people in volunteer activities.
And have you ever tried to keep 50 older adults communicating together using a single,
it's impossible.
They don't use email.
They lose their email.
It's in their inbox.
How do I, texting is the only universal platform I found.
And I need to find a way to communicate in a non-technical way to a bunch of people really
quickly.
And I cannot do it.
And it's driving me crazy.
Well, communicating with 50 people in general is difficult.
Because you never know if they all read it, who's read it, are they going to follow through and listen to what was said or whatever.
But chat is the easiest way because they've already got that built in.
That's why Facebook groups worked or work so well because everyone had or has Facebook.
I don't know about today, but like two years ago.
Nobody uses Facebook now.
Yeah.
So like two years ago, everybody was on Facebook.
Right.
So Facebook groups blew up.
Now I feel like people are leaving and looking for the next thing.
But if you can find the platform that people are all on.
Only common denominator I found is SMS.
Yeah.
Texting.
That's it.
I think internationally it's WhatsApp, right?
Even though people have the school groups or the different platforms, you have group communication.
Still, people are moved to using WhatsApp groups because, well, it was secure.
Different conversation.
But pretty much everybody had it.
It's pretty ubiquitous.
It's really well known.
It crossed all of the international borders.
Different countries have their different apps.
But WhatsApp, from what I've seen from the people I've spoken with globally, it's WhatsApp, right?
Yeah, it's not that big a deal here.
I can't even think of a single person in either one of my clubs that would even know what it was.
I'm serious.
So I live in a rural area, and it's like we're talking the lowest common denominator.
Yeah.
So I don't know.
I'll get there.
I'm going to figure this out.
I mean, if you could send it through like a an SMS message to a link to download an app, but I would assume you have people on different platforms. So that doesn't work. Right. And then email doesn't work. That's a hard one.
I know. All I need to do, here's a simple problem I have right now. I have a nominating committee for officers for a group of 10 people. I have to get them all together. I have to tell them what to do. Text has worked pretty well for that. But I have a set of action items sent to these people. But then it's just, like you said, it's willy-nilly whether they read them or whether they read the whole thing or whether they misread it or whether they, you know, and I'm going to solve it.
I would try to get everybody on one communication tool, like WhatsApp. Yeah. And then at least you can see in most of those tools, like how many people have read it. I don't know if you can run polls in WhatsApp now. There are some tools you can run polls or questionnaires.
That's true. That's a thought.
So I would probably, anyways, we'll take this out of the podcast, but you have to find some
tool where you can track like, have I read this or do a poll or else you have to do like
a link out to a site to do the follow-up, which might be easier.
You just have one channel for communication.
So WhatsApp or Telegram, they can click on and take action on a webpage where they put
in their email or, you know, and then whatever the selection is.
I'll think through it.
Anyway, that's an aside, but thank you.
Well, I guess we should kind of start to bring it to a close.
So, Jane, before I close, and this is a question I have a couple of questions I ask for coaches
before the end of a conversation.
And one of them is, what have you learned about yourself through this process of becoming
a coach and building your coaching business?
Oh, that's a good one.
This is a good time to ask me because I'm finally feeling like I'm settling down.
What I have learned is that, and I was just thinking about this yesterday, when you're
in the rat race my entire life my mom was a teacher my dad was a corporate engineer when you've spent
this entire life with this focus on you've got to join a corporation you've got to do this thing
you've got to have this job you've got to make these i never had bad expectations put on me but
everything around your society is gearing you towards doing that job being successful in that
job then you retire and we don't even look at that and when people are trying to reinvent
themselves there's a whole bunch of people trying to reinvent themselves everybody wants to tell you
what to do and i think the biggest thing to do is push yourself take on things that you've never
done before try it see if it works if it doesn't work it doesn't work um but at all times just
get off the rat race get off the hamster wheel and do what you really want to do and that's the
hardest thing for me to learn was what do you want to do? It sounds like a simple question,
but it's not. And it's the first question I ask all my coaching people. And it's the one I took
me five years really to answer my, for myself. So what is it that you want to do?
What I want to do is take all, you know, I always, when everybody asks me when I retired,
I always say I graduated instead of retired. And it's, it's a Freudian slip. I figure to me,
I feel like I have taken all of this time. My job and my career did so much for me personally. I was
shy. I couldn't talk to anybody. The things and the skills that I learned working at IBM and then
as a CIO in higher ed were things I never would have learned anywhere else. It was hard. It was
challenging. Every day was a challenge. But to me, it set me up for doing what I'm doing now.
I know how to lead people. I'm leading volunteer groups. I know how to coach now because I have
the background and all that coaching. I'm doing what I love in gardening and conservation and
I'm being able to do all these fun things. But I feel like everything I did was kind of a prep
for this is your next show. This is the show, folks. And so all the tools that I've learned,
I don't feel like I'm done. I mean, that job at IBM set myself was hard, but it wasn't the end
when I got away from it. It was taking what I learned from that and going on to the next step.
Yeah. That's hard. It's a hard thing to learn. And when you suddenly go from Saturday and Sunday is
the only day I've got to do the things I want to do to I can do it every day, every day, Saturday
and Sunday. That's when you really figure out what you really want to do and what you want to spend
your time on. That was my lesson. That's a really good point. And we can talk more about it afterwards.
And this is the last question that I'll ask. What is one piece of advice that you'd give somebody
who's just beginning their coaching journey now?
Number one, get credentialed.
Do the work.
Go as far as you can in the credentialing and put in that good work.
And then, you know, for me, it was finding not a coach, but a mentor,
someone who I could really trust, who kind of walked me down and helped me.
I'll never forget that day when I was saying, I don't know anybody.
And they said, you know more people than you think you do.
And I started realizing that, you know, that was what really getting that mentor
and getting someone to actually help me start.
but get their credentials. Don't just say you're a coach and hang up your shingle.
Yeah. Unfortunately that happens often, but there are more, you know, things like the ICF,
there are a few other ones internationally. And so it does. Yeah. Cause I mean, coaching is kind
of like the wild west. You can be coaching for anything. So Jane, I've really appreciated and
enjoyed this conversation. This has been a lot of fun for me. So thank you very much.
If anybody wanted to get in contact with you to work with you or, you know, how could they do that?
I'm on LinkedIn, Jane Parker Williams.
You can find me there.
I also have a company called Find Your Fire Coach.
You can find me at that website.
And I'm starting a new venture called Make Working Work.
I have that website as well.
And that's about really geared towards really helping people in a hybrid environment work better and smarter.
So all of those things, Make Working Work, Find Your Fire Coach, and you can find me on LinkedIn.
Jane, thank you so much.
This has been so much fun.
I really appreciate it.
You're fantastic. And I just wish you all the best.
Thank you.
Thank you.
But want to stop guessing and start building a marketing system that actually fills your calendar?
Head to kyber5.com forward slash coachops and let's get systematic.
That's it for today's episode.
I hope you grabbed something useful you can actually apply in your business.
If you did, leave a comment or share it with a friend and hit subscribe if you haven't already.
I'll catch you next week.